Scandinavia/Viking: Total War

Heyas. This is a new mod that I'm working on. So far, I've only got part of the campaign map done, but it's my intention to get the entire scandinavian area in there, as well as the baltics. Also, this will be a rather small mod. Don't expect fancy new models (because I'm not a modeler!) and don't expect any new, totally cool innovations. This will just be a small mod where you can play as one of 9 (or more) factions, and duke it out in the scandinavian countries.

Here's the list of factions so far:

The Danes
The Goths
The Sveas
The Norwiegans
The Rus
The Tasvetians
The Kvens
The Carelians
The Novgorodians/Republic of Novgorod

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...p_factions.jpg

As for the armies, this is how it's going to be done:

So far, there's three "groups" of units. The vikings, the finns and the christians.

The viking (Danes, Goths, Sveas, Norwiegans and Rus) unit rooster will consist off:

Thralls (Think "peasants")
Spearmen
Swordsmen
Axemen
Armoured Spearmen
Elite Swordsman/Axemen (depends on faction)
Huscarl (Best unit in the game)
Berserker
Archer
"Elite" Archer (Not the best archer in the game, but is better than regular archers and can fight in close combat)
Light Cavalry

The vikings have the best units in the game, and also the largest unit rooster. Their close combat units will be unmatched by any others. However, they lack heavy cavalry.

Here's the finnic rooster (Kvens, Tasvetians and Carelians):
Peasant
Spearmen
Axemen
Elite Axemen (Two handed)
Finnic Noble (Like huscarl. A kick ass infantry unit)
Archer
Elite Archer (Better than viking archers, but are poor in close combat)
Tracker (Kvens only. The best archer in the game. Can also hide anywhere)
Light Cavalry

Haven't figured out what the carelians or tasvetians will have for unique units yet.

The Christians (So far, only Novgorod):
Peasant
Spearmen
Carelian Mercenaries (axemen)
Armoured Swordsman
Light Cavalry
Nobles Heavy Cavalry (Only heavy cavalry unit in the game)
Archers
Slavic Skirmishers

There'll probably be one or two baltic factions as well. I'm not sure wether to give them finnic units, or something else. As you can see, however, there's only one single heavy cavalry unit in the game and only one faction has it. This means that it will be very infantry orientated.

Since I'm not a modeller, it means that I'm going to have to use the original, fantasyish barbarian models. I don't want too, but I can't see any other way out. This means there'll probably be a few barebreasted vikings running around, unfortunetly... I can do skins, tho.

What do you guys think? Any ideas? Anything that needs to be changed?

9 factions? with a map that small you could fit in less well known tribes...or you could extend the map to include britain, to add the effect of norse raids and then you could have saxons, scots, irish, manx, picts and britons...just a thought keep it up though, sounds like a good idea!

It's Tavastians, not tasvetians

Originally, I had the map extended to include britain and iceland, but the RTW engine functions so that a certain percent of the map HAS to be landmass, or else the campaign will CTD. The extension of the map made it so there was a huge amount of sea (as both iceland and england are pretty small, and "far away" from Scandinavia).

So I had to remake the map with only scandinavia, but instead I extended it slightly further south and east.

Aldaceleb, sorry about that. I don't know why I misspelt it, I have the correct name in my sources. :P

EDIT: Oh, forgot totally about the other factions. Well, I was thinking about adding the sami, but that would be kind ridiculous, really, considering they never fought anyone, and were nomads. :P

But yeah, I know I need more factions, because currently, there's alot of unowned land. Perhaps another viking faction that's in northern sweden/norway. Also, something in the baltics. The lithaunians, most likely.

That should bring the factions up to 11. Also, the Republic of Novgorod will instead be the Kievans, because at this time (793) Novgorod was part of the Kievan empire. Kievans is also easier to put in plural form...

If your really struglling for a faction and are not goin for complete historical accuracy, you could have the Jomsvikings.

What if you would include Northern Germany and Poland to it that would bring more diversity to troop types?About Finnish troop types.It will be wery hard to make those authentic because there is very little information about them in history.

I'd rather make a tribe playable, that just making one up. I'd like to stick as close to historical accuracy as possible. Note: "as possible". :p

As for Poland and germany, remember: It would take heavy modelling to create man-at-arms and knights, and I'm not equipped for that (Otherwise, the HRE would be in the game as Friesland and Saxony is).

I intend to release this when I'm ready, and later release an "expansion" once the expansion pack is released. This expansion will feature larger map, more units and possibly more factions. Hopefully, I could incorporate the expansions religion system into it as well!

Sounds cool... what's the time period? I saw 793 but when will it start?

Beowulf: Total War ~:cool:

wat? no jarls? shouldnt vikings have a noble cavalry unit-jarls? :charge:

Jarls are not the equivalent of knights. A jarl was a nobleman who served only the king. You could compare them to the barons of the christian nations. A baron himself would not enter a fight (altough a jarl might) but rather have his men, the knights (or huscarls for a jarl) do it.

So basicly, jarls are the family members and huscarles are his bodyguards. Every familiy member/jarl will be accompanied by huscarls, just like roman family members (and all other family members) are accompanied by bodyguards.

Also, vikings didn't use heavy cavalry. Actually, they rarely used cavalry at all. Scandinavian horses were smaller than most other horses, and not very combat-worthy. But all vikings knew HOW to ride a horse, as they used them to travel with.

It will start in 793 and end in 1066.

oh . . . well, i knew that . . . . *fires secretary*

well, AoM has norse-vikings that have raiding cav and jarls . . . well, then again, it is sortof ahistoical. :charge:

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Originally Posted by EvilNed

Here's the finnic rooster (Kvens, Tasvetians and Carelians):
Peasant
Spearmen
Axemen
Elite Axemen (Two handed)
Finnic Noble (Like huscarl. A kick ass infantry unit)
Archer
Elite Archer (Better than viking archers, but are poor in close combat)
Tracker (Kvens only. The best archer in the game. Can also hide anywhere)
Light Cavalry
What do you guys think? Any ideas? Anything that needs to be changed?

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There were no Finnic peasants that time, they were tribesmen. Finnic tribesmen used spear as a most common weapon and they used both throwing spears and thrusting spear.

You should replace axemen with swordsmen since that was more used weapon by the Finns.

Indeed there were no "nobles" in Finland at that time - there were just richer men. Finnic "Nobles" had silver decorated axes sometimes.

Finnic Light Cavalry should be very bad - finnic horses were small, very expensive and Finns didn't really fight mounted at that time.

Alda, I know about the horses, but that is to put some amount of mobility to them. Vikings rarely used horses either. So both the fins and the vikings get light cavalry.

The peasant unit will be a spear unit, just to make it clear. Doesn't really matter what we call it (I tribesmen is fine), but it'll have the same equippment as the rest of the peasant units: Spear and shield.

As for swordsmen and axemen, I'm not sure. I do think axemen would fit better, but if you can find a source that says finns mostly used swords, I'll change it to swordsmen!

There have been findings of rich, decorated graves in finland. I'm not saying that these were nobles, but they were obviously people who could afford better equipment. Noble sounds better than "Finnic Swordsman, who-is-slightly-richer-than-the-other-swordsman-unit!" :p . But if you could find a nice name for them, that'd be killer.

If you want to take part in making a viking related mod, you could always check out the mod I and several others are working on here: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=106

Our mod will feature a larger map (covering all of Europe and some more) and is about 843 AD to 1099 AD, so it's a little different from yours but if you're interested in our idea and have any modding skills you could always send me a private message and perhaps join our mod. We've already gotten quite far (research tech trees and unit lists about 70%, skinning and modelling about 5-10%, campaign map around 10-20 percent) and have a fairly large team already but more mod team members are always desirable.

Umm...as a native finn I know MANY sources of finns using swords more than axes, but they are all in Finnish, so you would not understand. Finns didn't use metal armour or metal helmets, but many had leather armour. Yes, there were finnic horsemen(I was wrong earlier) armed with sword and two spears.
You could propably cut out the two-handed axemen and axemen. More historical units should be swordsmen, two-handed swordsmen and skirmisher.
Every warrior also carried throwing spear.
All finland belonged to finnic tribes also, there were no "Rus" in modern finland.

The rus are the "fantasy" part of the game, really. I know they shouldn't be there (and if they ever were there, it was later in time), but I desperatly need the factions :p If you really think so, I might delete them.

I'll be sure to add a skirmisher unit to the finns. And swordsmen instead of axemen! Thanks for the info. Also, you got a better name for the nobles? I'd like to use as authentic names as possible.

This sounds pretty fun, but it looks just like a miny version of age of viking and fanatics total war. But, hey if you want to make your own smaller scope mod then thats cool.

Good luck! ~:cheers:

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Originally Posted by Aldaceleb

Umm...as a native finn I know MANY sources of finns using swords more than axes, but they are all in Finnish, so you would not understand. Finns didn't use metal armour or metal helmets, but many had leather armour. Yes, there were finnic horsemen(I was wrong earlier) armed with sword and two spears.
You could propably cut out the two-handed axemen and axemen. More historical units should be swordsmen, two-handed swordsmen and skirmisher.
Every warrior also carried throwing spear.
All finland belonged to finnic tribes also, there were no "Rus" in modern finland.

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Im also from Finland . And what i have read from history studies Finns used as primary weapons Spear,javelin,bow and axe only the more powerful or rich men could afford swords.And in that point of time There were three finnish main tribes:The Finns,The Tavastians,The Karelians.but while finnish troops looks almost like tribesmanlike we have to remember that they could really cope with the vikings.example at 1187 fins sacked Sigtuna the capital swea and killed Swedens arcbishob and jarl.

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Originally Posted by kagemusha

Im also from Finland . And what i have read from history studies Finns used as primary weapons Spear,javelin,bow and axe only the more powerful or rich men could afford swords.And in that point of time There were three finnish main tribes:The Finns,The Tavastians,The Karelians.but while finnish troops looks almost like tribesmanlike we have to remember that they could really cope with the vikings.example at 1187 fins sacked Sigtuna the capital swea and killed Swedens arcbishob and jarl.

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Sword was quite common weapon that time. Richer men used swords and axes.

EvilNed: Good Idea with a mod about this period of time and part of the word.
But why is not Åland (i dont know the name of it in English, but i guess you are from scandinavia, otherwise you schould not know so much about the history i guess).

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Originally Posted by Pewe

EvilNed: Good Idea with a mod about this period of time and part of the word.
But why is not Åland (i dont know the name of it in English, but i guess you are from scandinavia, otherwise you schould not know so much about the history i guess).

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I used maps to get the exactness (or at least pretty close), but small details, such as Åland, got lost becuase they were simply to small for the map. I'll go check out it's size, and see how big it and if it will fit into the map.

I've begun skinning the viking units, altough since I cannot model, most of them are rather uninteresting (putting a shirt or piece of armor ontop of a shirtless model looks really uncool...)

This is a list of the skins I've finished, and the model I used, simply to show off how not to expect something:

Thralls, using the warband model. New pants and shield, but other than that nothing interesting.
Spearmen, using the swordsmen model (but with a spear instead). New pants and shield, but other than that nothing interesting.
Swordsman, using the swordsmen model. New pants and shield, but other than that nothing interesting.
Armoured Spearmen, using the noble cavalry model. Looks pretty nice! Shame that most people won't build them, because people hate spearmen. :p
Archer, using the eastern archer model. That was the only model that was fully clothed!
Berserker... No new skin, just the same old berserker but with recolored pants.

As you can see this mod will be pretty uninteresting unit wise. But the BI pack will bring some nice barbarian models with it, luckily!

You should post those pics. I am certainly itersted to see what they look like. ~:)

Here's three pics. (Proper names still not in use)

Viking Swordsmen:
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v.../swordsmen.jpg

Viking Elite Swordsmen:
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...lNed/Sword.jpg

Viking Elite Axemen:
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v254/EvilNed/axe.jpg

Those are three skins I made this evening. The rest are fairly boring in comparison, but there's more coming up. The Elite Axemen skin isn't quide done yet. It needs some more work to it.

EDIT: The units on the pictures are for the gothic (Dacia) faction. The only thing that will set factions apart is the shield. So the Svean swordsmen will look alike, but with a different shield.

Hey EvilNed,

Good to see some real vikings comming to live :medievalcheers:

have you seen our Age of vikings and fanatics mod? I think we are covering the exact same era. It wold be cool if you stopped by our forum and take a look. Our presentation is not up to date yet, but you will soon see some new unit's. Maybe you could join the team?

Heres a little taste ~:) :
https://img166.imageshack.us/img166/6237/53lk.jpg

-Skel-

suggestions,

They hair looks a little too blond and unrealistic.

My computer started working for awhile, but now I'm back with a new harddrive. Unfortunetly, I lost all my skins in the process (but not the campaign map itself).

I'm thinking about redoing the provinces and attempting to add England and Iceland while I'm at it. Also, as for the provinces I was thinking about using the landscapes of the scandinavian lands as they exist today. It might be a bit corny, since it takes place 1250 years ago, but I have really nothing else to go on. Currently, most of the provinces are simply made up, but there's more of them than there would be if I had followed the real outline.

What do you guys think?

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Originally Posted by EvilNed

My computer started working for awhile, but now I'm back with a new harddrive. Unfortunetly, I lost all my skins in the process (but not the campaign map itself).

I'm thinking about redoing the provinces and attempting to add England and Iceland while I'm at it. Also, as for the provinces I was thinking about using the landscapes of the scandinavian lands as they exist today. It might be a bit corny, since it takes place 1250 years ago, but I have really nothing else to go on. Currently, most of the provinces are simply made up, but there's more of them than there would be if I had followed the real outline.

What do you guys think?

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Well, I dont have a map of sweden the way it looked around this period of time, but it was plenty much more water, much of todays Svealand was under water. I don't have a map over those areas back then.

Men det finns säkert i vilken historiebok som helst som behandlar den tiden.

Hmmm, there pretty good NED

Pewe: I never heard of that. I don't really think that sounds very plausible. Sure, Scandinavia is rising from the sea, even to this day, but it's by a few milimeters per year. Not enough to make a difference over a thousand years or so.

Bopa: Well, they're gone now. On my old harddrive. :p

Is there anyway of changing a factions culture? All factions, except for the Kievans, will have to be barbaric for it to work.

Yes it is possible to change a factions culture slot. Don't know how though.

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Originally Posted by EvilNed

Pewe: I never heard of that. I don't really think that sounds very plausible. Sure, Scandinavia is rising from the sea, even to this day, but it's by a few milimeters per year. Not enough to make a difference over a thousand years or so.

Bopa: Well, they're gone now. On my old harddrive. :p

Is there anyway of changing a factions culture? All factions, except for the Kievans, will have to be barbaric for it to work.

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I can assure you that it was a difference with the land back then, I will try to find a source for it, but it must stand in any historybook.

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Originally Posted by Pewe

I can assure you that it was a difference with the land back then, I will try to find a source for it, but it must stand in any historybook.

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Are you sure you're not mistaken water for trees? :p

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EvilNed

Are you sure you're not mistaken water for trees? :p

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Helt säker.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pewe

Helt säker.

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Well alright, but I'll need a source before I start working on that. If you got a book which states it, just give me the title and I'll look it up!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EvilNed

Well alright, but I'll need a source before I start working on that. If you got a book which states it, just give me the title and I'll look it up!

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I understand that, but my only source is the historybook i got in school, and I don't know the name of it. But if you take a look in any historical atlas you can maybe found a source for it.