Anti Americanism

Many Americans are always complaining about socalled AA in Europe. That is silly. Most Europeans do not agree with the way America makes his 'war against terror'. They have reasons for that. You can accept or not. You can even ignore them. But that is no AA.
Most Americans do not seem to be interested in that reasons. It is much easier to have their persecution complex. :furious3:

- I cannot see any antiamericanism from Germans, French or Russians in the posts here
- I know that there are prejudices on both side of the ocean.
- I am aware that there are Americans that do not support Bush as well as there are Europeans that support Bush
- There are silly people everywhere. But the silly people in Europe have to work hard to reach the level of this 'freedom fires' guy.
- If Americans like to go on looking for new enemies everywherethen they constrain the fight against terrorism. Bin Ladn will be very happy about that.
- Do not tell me that Europe does not support the fight against terror. This week two German soldiers died in Afganisthan.

Show me were is real AA in Europe! I'll do my best to fix it.

Some of its all in the prespective. Some of it is helped along by the news media in the United States. Here are several articles from the media on it.

http://www.time.com/time/europe/maga...ver/story.html

http://www.hudsonreview.com/BawerSp04.html

Haven't read the complete article but the skimming it - struck my interest.

http://www.nixoncenter.org/Program%2...no20antiam.htm

Mr. Kennedy noted that, based on extensive polling research of Europeans, there is little evidence to suggest that either the cultural or the economic anti-Americanism persist across Europe today. The real issues are political. Europeans perceive that America is by far the predominant power in the world, and this shapes the way they look world events. Mr. Kennedy cited the oft-mentioned fact that many in Europe perceived at least some measure of causality or association between the events of September 11th and American foreign policy. While many Americans were shocked and discouraged by the number of Europeans holding this view (55%), Mr. Kennedy asserted that this is not necessarily an example of anti-Americanism. Rather, because many Europeans "view the United States as having almost unlimited power, it’s easy to think that almost anything in the world is somehow connected with the use of it". Furthermore, the US has long been the country to which many Europeans felt the closest or towards which they had the warmest feelings. Mr. Kennedy also noted that the two sides have very different perceptions of what UN involvement in international actions means, particularly with regard to Iraq. In Europe, it connotes approval, sanction and legitimacy whereas in the US it implies allies, friends, and assistance. Thus, UN involvement in any campaign against Iraq is the most important factor for most Europeans.

Preceptions upon preceptions would be the answer I think.

Awwwww we euro's love to wine don't we. We like to see ourselves as intellectually superior to these stupid yanks with their hollywood and MacDonalds, we got culture after all. It annoys the crap out of me, america is the best friend europe ever had. Most anti-americanism exists with those that love to use very long words, don't listen to them since they don't make sense anyway.

I'm not anti-American at all and I find many things incredible and admirable about America, but if America gives me reason to complain then I will do so. Unfortunately, it does this quite often.

At the moment though, America is actually quite low in my list of countries that are pissing me off. The top nations in the list right now would probably be:
France
Germany

Two European nations. See, we Europeans are perfectly capable of hating ourselves. Don't be arrogant and assume you have anything like a monopoly on our hatred ~:) .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Al Khalifah

At the moment though, America is actually quite low in my list of countries that are pissing me off. The top nations in the list right now would probably be:
France
Germany

Two European nations. See, we Europeans are perfectly capable of hating ourselves. Don't be arrogant and assume you have anything like a monopoly on our hatred ~:) .

---

Why? Only because they have great football teams? ~D

As I have said before, I have never experienced much anti Americanism, and when I do I along with many, many others are always there to stand up for America. For the most part it definately is a case of us not liking the current administration, but that fact not stopping us liking the US people and culture.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Redleg

...
Preceptions upon preceptions would be the answer I think.

---

What is preception. Could not find that word!

What do you think about this: I read an article about the popularity of the US (do not remember the source ~:confused: )
They wrote that some countries complain because the US is not religious enough, others complain that the US is to much religious.
At first I thought this is a very good result. If some say too much and others not enough it seems to be balanced. After more thinking I was wondering if the US may be both. Maybe it is not that homogeneous. What do you think?

P.S. To all my American friends: Have a nice holiday
:clown: :joker:

Quote:

---

After more thinking I was wondering if the US may be both. Maybe it is not that homogeneous. What do you think?

---

The US is the most diversified nation on the face of the planet. We got em all. ~;) The good the bad and the ugly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Franconicus

What is preception. Could not find that word!

What do you think about this: I read an article about the popularity of the US (do not remember the source ~:confused: )
They wrote that some countries complain because the US is not religious enough, others complain that the US is to much religious.
At first I thought this is a very good result. If some say too much and others not enough it seems to be balanced. After more thinking I was wondering if the US may be both. Maybe it is not that homogeneous. What do you think?

P.S. To all my American friends: Have a nice holiday
:clown: :joker:

---

I complain cos they think they can tell The world what to do,
When they cant controll them selfs.

They produce 9x more polution than any other country,
So they refused to go to world summit as they knew there polution was ruining planet.

They are arrogant loud and annoying,

They start wars for no reason.

They say were gonna get osama,
CANT
So decide We will get sadam then, or we will look like Idiots.


Now dont get me wrong,
Most Amreicans as individuals are great,
But A lot are just annoying.
its just unfortunate that We tend to see the annoying cretenous americans more often than the decent americans,

Every where has good and bad,
Unfortunatly when your out side of america looking in all you can see are the bad people,
the good people are hard to find, But when you do, They are Good people in deed.

ShambleS

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny

The US is the most diversified nation on the face of the planet. We got em all. ~;) The good the bad and the ugly.

---

This maybe the reason why it confuses people from the outside. And why everybody can find something he does not like.

By the way: this is one of my favorite movies :cowboy:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Franconicus

What is preception. Could not find that word!

---

Lets try this spelling perception

One of these days I will learn to spell - but don't hold your breath.

Quote:

---

What do you think about this: I read an article about the popularity of the US (do not remember the source ~:confused: )
They wrote that some countries complain because the US is not religious enough, others complain that the US is to much religious.
At first I thought this is a very good result. If some say too much and others not enough it seems to be balanced. After more thinking I was wondering if the US may be both. Maybe it is not that homogeneous. What do you think?

---

A lot of it depends upon what part of the country you find yourself. Parts of the Nation are extremely religous - other parts are less. One must take a sample from many different parts of this nation to get an adequate idea on what the religous level is.

Quote:

---

P.S. To all my American friends: Have a nice holiday
:clown: :joker:

---

Why thank you

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Al Khalifah

At the moment though, America is actually quite low in my list of countries that are pissing me off. The top nations in the list right now would probably be:
France
Germany

Two European nations. See, we Europeans are perfectly capable of hating ourselves. Don't be arrogant and assume you have anything like a monopoly on our hatred ~:) .

---

Why? Cause we pound you into the dust at fussball?

Well I dont know about anti Americanisnm in Europe but I hope its not as bad as the anti Europeans over here. We dont hate you people just your governments. ~;) If you people have half the contempt for our government that we have for all of yours then we are all in trouble. Yes Im generalising here. Surely most real liberals here love your leaders.

Surely most real liberals here love your leaders.
Most free thinking rational people despise their leaders , but they despise the oppositions leaders even more .
Look at Britain or France for prime examples .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny

Well I dont know about anti Americanisnm in Europe but I hope its not as bad as the anti Europeans over here. We dont hate you people just your governments. ~;)

---

That bad? How come. Europe + USA = one.

In Sweden there is ALOT of anti-americanism, but do not fear. I will allways stay loyal to those who stand up for freedome. ~;)

One thing you ought to know is that swedish media shows a very weird picture of Busch. It´s not a coinsident people hate Busch over here...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Radier

One thing you ought to know is that swedish media shows a very weird picture of Busch. It´s not a coinsident people hate Busch over here...

---

No Bush is just like that ~;)

Many Europeans hate America. Its a mostly due to jealousy.

The "trash" of Europe came over to America and became much greater than Europe in terms of military, economics, ect. That'll make anybody mad. ~D

Quote:

---

Most free thinking rational people despise their leaders , but they despise the oppositions leaders even more .

---

Well I dont despise Bush but I sure despise Chirac. Blairs a great man in my book so I must disagree with your premise. Then again you probably will accuse e of not being a free thinking rational person ~;)

We call the democrats the party of europe ~D

I am a pure European. I am french, live and work in England. I don't hate the US. I am still amazed when people speak of Europe or US as one identity. When I went in the US, I travelled from Las Vegas to Salt Lake City. And I understood. United States of America. Plural.

Anti Americanism, Anti Europanism, Anti Semitism, Anti Islamism etc

It's all nothing but paranoia. There are no anti against any specific group or religion today. It's only used as an excuse in isolated incidents or to create an excuse to create an isolated incident. It's all about law enforcement. I thought we learned our lesson in history.....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PanzerJager

Many Europeans hate America. Its a mostly due to jealousy.

The "trash" of Europe came over to America and became much greater than Europe in terms of military, economics, ect. That'll make anybody mad. ~D

---

I sense anti-Europeanism.

~:rolleyes:

Quote:

---

I sense anti-Europeanism.

---

Granted someone who was born in Europe could be anti-europe - but not someone who spends so much time and money over there. ~;)

Europe is a great place.. i just think in the recent past the majority of people have lost their political and moral way. Just my humble opinion.

Quote:

---

Europe is a great place.. i just think in the recent past the majority of people have lost their political and moral way. Just my humble opinion.

---

Well thats my opinion also and that of most americans Im afraid though I have no statistics to back it up. I believe our friends accross the seas though have pretty much the same opinion of us .

Blairs a great man in my book so I must disagree with your premise.
Really ? So which of his policies do you agree with ? :book:

Or is it just the fact that he was willing to take his country to war on the basis of a pack of lies, with no clear achievable plans , against the wishes of the majority of his population , that makes him a "great man" :dizzy2:

I think for people on both sides of the pond we need to stop feeling like our leaders think like we do. Simply Put They don't. Although men like Chirac and Schroeder may have put a damper in quite a few of America's plans it was in their best interest to do so. Just because Bush and Chirac share a grudge doesn't mean that I have to share the same grudge as my leader, or even have close to the same Opinion. I have to admit however, that I dislike Chirac, this however comes from differing aesthetic view points than actual hatred for him. He has done nothing to personally to demean me. I think people over in Europe should think the same of Bush. I think both sides need to step away from the thought of "the opinion of the leader is the opinion of the people." While some people may have the exact same views as that of our leaders, it isn't a general opinion of the masses. As a matter of fact recent polls show that Bush is getting a 58% Dissaproval Rating as far as the War on Terrorism (and it continues to grow), however he is getting a 64% Approval Rating on our economy. I am not suggesting that we get rid of our leaders, that would just lead to chaos. But I do suggest that the masses and media by and large should let the cloak and dagger schemes go in peace and let the politicians kill each other. ~;)

Gawain and PanzerJager, not every european is a damn leftie ~:)

Right now the most rightwinged party of the swedish parliament is the largest in the latest polls. Hopefully they will win the election 2006...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny

Well thats my opinion also and that of most americans Im afraid though I have no statistics to back it up. I believe our friends accross the seas though have pretty much the same opinion of us .

---

Yet for us to have that opinion of you it is 'anti Americanism' yet for you of us it is... 'perfectly correct' in your mind.

:book:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Radier

Gawain and PanzerJager, not every european is a damn leftie ~:)

Right now the most rightwinged party of the swedish parliament is the largest in the latest polls. Hopefully they will win the election 2006...

---

Sweden needs it. Even more rediculous then Holland if you ask me, a solid economy just masks the consequences of utter bullshit. These arrogant leftist pricks always forget to ask if we really want what they have in mind. Euro, EU+Turkey, immigration, screw the left.

Quote:

---

Yet for us to have that opinion of you it is 'anti Americanism' yet for you of us it is... 'perfectly correct' in your mind.

---

Jag I accused us of being anti european. Where do you come up with this stuff? I said we are no different than you are. ~:confused:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Radier

Right now the most rightwinged party of the swedish parliament is the largest in the latest polls. Hopefully they will win the election 2006...

---

But even that party would be considered leftwinged by an American ~:)

From what I have seen on various websites and news its not that rare to call fellow Americans an "Anti-American" just because they criticize the system so I have no doubt some would consider Europeans even more anti-American. But I don't know how widespread this tendency is really.


CBR

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fragony

Sweden needs it. Even more rediculous then Holland if you ask me, a solid economy just masks the consequences of utter bullshit. These arrogant leftist pricks always forget to ask if we really want what they have in mind. Euro, EU+Turkey, immigration, screw the left.

---

I think you missed something. When it comes to Euro and EU, those parties against it here in Sweden is on the left. Or green.

Quote:

---

Right now the most rightwinged party of the swedish parliament is the largest in the latest polls. Hopefully they will win the election 2006...

---

Sadly, I suspect that Reinfeldt is a very poor choise, he seems to be unusually little in tuch with reality, even for a politician. I think Persson should have resigned when he speculated about it though, he has been there too long.

This is the way it appears to me:

Europe has a long and storied history, with many of the countries rising and falling in power and status over time. Britain, France, Spain, and Germany as examples each have been the dominant world power at one time or another.

It is true that America has risen to be the dominant world power for right now. And we will experience a decline, make no mistake. China will probably be next on the world stage, much to our chagrin.

Here is my point: It appears that some European countries are resentful of the current balance of power with the U.S. as the "Alpha male" in the pack. They think Americans are arrogant because they know that America will eventually decline in power but most Americans do not. It seems to me that the only country that does not hold this resentment is England. It seems to me that England just accepts that status quo and accepts itself as a great world power, though not the current "Alpha Male". France, Germany, and others are like the weaker dogs in the pack, nipping at the heels of the leader simply because they want to be the big dog.

I am well aware that America will not be the dominant power forever. I believe that most Americans do not view this as true. There is a sort of ethnocentricism in the U.S., where many believe that our inherent "goodness" gives us a birthright to being the world Superpower.

Perhaps the British share this type of ethnocentricism as well. The power of Britain was long felt throughout the world, and I am sure the British have a similar self-image. Same with France, only the French are more whiney about it. Same with Germany, only their national identity still seems to suffer from their national history.

U.S. ethnocentricism is also greatly influenced by the fact that we were never a dictatorship, as most of europe had been at one time or another. Our national heritage greatly affects our national identity, and help us to "see ourselves" in the way that we do. I believe this is probably the same in all countries.

This may explain our belief that we have the right to remove those in power who threaten us and the free world: to remove threats before it is too late. It also explains why much of Europe does not necessarily believe in this strategy. European countries are not self-assured in their 'inherent national goodness' like Americans are because of their history. Thus the perception of arrogance: "Oh you Americans think you are so perfect!"

I do not agree that America necessarily knows best. I am just aware that this is likely what causes this American identity. The self-perception of America will certainly lead to its decline in power, since it will not take emerging powers as seriously as it should, or it will percieve another nation's rise in power as a threat. Perfect example: China.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny

Jag I accused us of being anti european. Where do you come up with this stuff? I said we are no different than you are. ~:confused:

---

Was more aimed at PJ than you Gawain, I understood what you meant. :bow:

Uhm, how about when you find an organization of Americans that fund terrorists who are attacking Europe, then you get to say there's actual 'Anti-Europeanism.'

(No, not Irish descendents who are angry. Americans who are aiding Europe's enemies for it's own sake.)

Ridiculous.

Prolet-

What are you talking about? American organizations funding anti-European terrorist?

That is ridiculous. Do you honestly think that Americans approve of financing ANY terrorists?

The war on terror is a war against a method of warfare: Purpousely targeting innocent civilians through violence or threats of violence for political or ideoligical reasons. The U.S. National Security Strategy clearly explains this.

When the U.S. goes to war, do we avoid military targets and aim for civilians? Of course not! And nobody give me any rubbish that we do, because that is liberal conspiracy theory propaganda: complete lies.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Proletariat

Uhm, how about when you find an organization of Americans that fund terrorists who are attacking Europe, then you get to say there's actual 'Anti-Europeanism.'

(No, not Irish descendents who are angry. Americans who are aiding Europe's enemies for it's own sake.)

Ridiculous.

---

Not only do I hugely doubt the credibility of your sources for that article but do you really believe a few groups of people who do that over here means that everyone over here is anti American.

To be honest, if you believe that it is very likely that you do not hold a very high opinion of Europe yourself and are very likely to be anti European anyway.

Plus need we go over all the things the white house and CIA have done in the past? Thought not.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JAG

Not only do I hugely doubt the credibility of your sources for that article but do you really believe a few groups of people who do that over here means that everyone over here is anti American.

---

I forgot that commondreams.org hasn't weighed in yet.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JAG

To be honest, if you believe that it is very likely that you do not hold a very high opinion of Europe yourself and are very likely to be anti European anyway.

---

This shows how hypocritically judgemental you actually are. I plan on moving to Europe as soon as possible. I love European culture and am fascinated with the continent's lifestyle. There are very many things I believe Europe does that are light years ahead of the way we do things in America when it comes to leading a balanced lifestyle, which is far more important to me than politics.

I don't see how people saying things to the effect of, "Hey. The 'Europeans on the street' do not hate America. They just go case by case, like with anything else." refutes anything. That just means the majority of Europeans aren't idiots. This does nothing to refute the blatantly obvious animosity that exists. Europeans don't even like each other (re, the EU vote). To think a continent that is so rigorously ethnocentric actually doesn't harbor ill-feelings towards the US (when they don't even get along with their own neighbors) is silly.

I am European, I am currently studying in the U.S.

Anyway, I have heard insane hatred, spewed forth from the mouths of many European friends, against the U.S. . This is the sort of stuff that if you repeated in public (and replaced Americans with 3rd world immigrants) would land you in trouble for inciting racial hatred.

Criticisms of Europe by my American friends are simply complaining about some things they dislike about the E.U. and its politicians; bad travel experiences etc. rather than expressions of hatred or wishfully hoping some horrific fate would befall the citizens of the E.U.

So tell me Taffy since you are one of the few Europeans here that actually have been or are in the US how does theperception now of this country square with the perception of the average person over there or yours before you came here? Has your opinion changed?

My opinion has changed immensely. It's far more positive for having spent time here.

Americans suffer from negative stereotyping in a big way (although, to be fair, non-white Americans and left-wing white Americans don't get picked on so much) in the European media.

The weird optimism and kindness of Americans is always fake according to received wisdom but I've found that Americans are incredibly nice and strangely optimistic (especially the evil White right-wingers).

Also the image of Americans as morons is quite tiresome and prevalent yet spend some time in Europe and you'll notice our hordes of loud idiots too (chavs, neds etc.).

I can't remember who said it about the European media and its non-stop negative stereotyping of Americans (and it was a European who said it): "The Americans are the new Jews".

Based on Taff's comment, I would have to say:

Who are the arrogant ones? Seems to be Europe, eh?

Damn Euro-trash. (heehee)

Quote:

---

Uhm, how about when you find an organization of Americans that fund terrorists who are attacking Europe, then you get to say there's actual 'Anti-Europeanism.'

---

This comes from the mistaken perception that Ireland is part of the British Isles and hence European, when actually it an island off of the coast of New England, specifically Massachussetts, and hence is a part of America. American support for the IRA is simply the next phase of the American Revolutionary War (then its on to Canada and Bermuda).

Regarding the idea that Europeans are anti-American or that Americans hate Euros, remember, love the sinner, abhor the sin.

ichi :bow:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ironside

Sadly, I suspect that Reinfeldt is a very poor choise, he seems to be unusually little in tuch with reality, even for a politician. I think Persson should have resigned when he speculated about it though, he has been there too long.

---

According to some polls, he is now leading the largest party in Sweden. The increased votes for Moderaterna is due to him being more liberal. The right wing party as for now would more likely be KDS.

I am happy to see that Taffy reads and speaks English, French, German, Italian, Spanish, Polish, Czech, Slovenian, Portuguese, Dutch, and all other European languages which allow him to speak of the European Media.
By the way, I went in the US in my young days; I liked the Americans I met, and I worked with American in Iraq and Bosnia, but I disagree with the last move of the American actual policy… AND I don’t mix-up American people with the US policy and Administration… I am against the Fuhrer Principe.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bmolsson

According to some polls, he is now leading the largest party in Sweden. The increased votes for Moderaterna is due to him being more liberal. The right wing party as for now would more likely be KDS.

---

Our middle is quite filled with parties nowadays. 5 out of 7 :dizzy2:

I'm aware that the odds for a borgelig regering after the next election is quite high.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Radier

Right now the most rightwinged party of the swedish parliament is the largest in the latest polls. Hopefully they will win the election 2006...

---

... yeah woho, privetisation (sp?), taxcuts, lesser rights for workers, weakened unions. The Speaches hold by the rightwingers here sounds more like something from a fairytale. Specially "Maud" sounds so naiv its almost laughable.

As "Vänster partiet" and "Social Democraterna" are loosing voters it might result in a rightwing gov. here in sweden wich would result in more (young) leftwingers will just turn to organistions like RKU and AFA and so on. And so, the anti-americanism would increase since many of those extreme leftwing organistions are driven by a blind hatred towards USA.

*sigh* just talking about the future of Sweden makes me depressed.

One can just hope that voters turn to Miljöpartiet (Green party) instead!

There will never be a right wing government in Sweden. A liberal one at the most. Swedes are so brain washed with social democracy so it will take another 100 years to was that away.
The sad thing is that there are no real right parties in Sweden. On the far right you only find racists, nazists or religious nutjobs. The capitalists in Sweden is a dying breed, hunted like English foxes.....

Brenus: I may not read all their media (and who would have the time to)
but I do sometimes have the basic idea behind certain articlles explained to me.
I have lived or worked with People from throughout the U.K., Ireland, Norway, Sweden, Finland, France, Spain, Italy, Germany, Austria and Poland. I got their view points (seriously, most of these have been more than 1 person representing their groups).
So, the newspaper thing: mostly I have had people from those groups bring attention to articles written in German or French. I apologise then if I do not get access to them everyday.
In that case let me say: the U.K. and Irish media as well as (I have been led to believe by their citizens) German and French media are guilty of what I was saying. Those countries represent almost half the population of the E.U.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bmolsson

There will never be a right wing government in Sweden. A liberal one at the most. Swedes are so brain washed with social democracy so it will take another 100 years to was that away.
The sad thing is that there are no real right parties in Sweden. On the far right you only find racists, nazists or religious nutjobs. The capitalists in Sweden is a dying breed, hunted like English foxes.....

---

Not really true, stats show that the rich earn more and more in sweden while the low and mid income stay the same. You can hardly claim that the rich capitalists are dying here.
And to say that we are brainwashed by social democracy? nha, even us in the middle (I see myself as in the middle) and many on the left hate social democracy.
Many of my friends are either Green or really really left. I have a few friends that are rightwingers, but they dont evend are to say so in our pressance. ~:cheers:

There is even a blog documenting the anti-Americanism of Le Monde:
http://lemondewatch.blogspot.com/

actually it's about the anti-Americanism of the French media in general but focuses on Le Monde.

update: here's something about Der Spiegel printing an article that annoyed and misrepresented people in what seems to be an attempt at inducing negative attitudes about the U.S. :http://www.boycottwatch.org/misc/france-06.htm

Update2: a website about the German media:
http://medienkritik.typepad.com/blog...ls_antiam.html

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lazul

Not really true, stats show that the rich earn more and more in sweden while the low and mid income stay the same. You can hardly claim that the rich capitalists are dying here.

---

Most of them are leaving so they will survive... ~;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lazul

And to say that we are brainwashed by social democracy? nha, even us in the middle (I see myself as in the middle) and many on the left hate social democracy.

---

Not at all. Nobody hates Social democracy. People do hate Göran Persson, but that is another story.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lazul

Many of my friends are either Green or really really left. I have a few friends that are rightwingers, but they dont evend are to say so in our pressance. ~:cheers:

---

There are no real communists in Sweden. Just some lost souls, pissed off on the monarchy.... ~:grouphug:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny

[B]Europe is a great place.. i just think in the recent past the majority of people have lost their political and moral way. Just my humble opinion.[/B] Well thats my opinion also and that of most americans Im afraid though I have no statistics to back it up. I believe our friends accross the seas though have pretty much the same opinion of us .

---

Gawain, you can bet on that!
Did you ever ask yourself why Europe is against the war?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bmolsson

There are no real communists in Sweden. Just some lost souls, pissed off on the monarchy.... ~:grouphug:

---

Reminds me of one of the best quotes I've seen in Swedish politics. I think it was the leader for the Green's youth party, when talking about abolishing the monarchy and answering on the comment
"But the king is more popular than ever"
"Popularity got nothing to do with defending undemocratic laws" or something like that.
And here I thought that democracy equals a popularity contest ~;)

Quote:

---

Most of them are leaving so they will survive...

---

Or they do it this way, they complains about how little they earn in Sweden compared with the rest of Europe. Then the evil Swiss decides to do a study on how much they earn and comes to the conclution that they earn most (or second don't remember exactly) in Europe. ~:eek: Happened to the Swedish VD:s atleast. ~D