Europe's demographic crisis

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Europe's demographic crisis
Chuck Colson (archive)

July 11, 2005 | printer friendly version Print | email to a friend Recommend to a friend

In a well-known urban legend, college students simultaneously flush all the toilets on campus and break down the town’s sewage system. While this story about overtaxing a sanitation system may be a myth, real-world Germans have learned what happens when you don’t tax the system enough. It’s a vivid example of the damage caused by the “birth dearth.”

The “birth dearth” is what demographers call plummeting birth rates in most of the industrialized world. Throughout Western Europe and East Asia, the birth rate is well below 2.1 births per woman—which is the minimum needed to maintain a stable population.

Environmentalist dogma argues that plummeting birth rates are a good thing: People cause pollution, we’re told. Well, officials in countries like Japan, Korea, and Germany now know better. In these and other so-called “advanced” societies, shrinking populations threaten their way of life and their cultural identity.

In Japan, for example, a birth rate that is barely half of “replacement level” has forced the closure of more than two thousand schools in the past ten years, with hundreds more closures to come. It’s left the government wondering who will support Japan’s aging population. These and other concerns, like the possible extinction of the Japanese people, have prompted older Japanese to call their childless children “parasite singles.”

In Germany, the population of some villages has shrunk so much that “there are now too few people flushing for the sewage to properly flow.” As a result, the government has had to spend scarce resources on retrofitting sewage systems.

Elsewhere in Germany and the rest of Europe, the emptying landscape provides an opening for an unlikely immigrant: the wolf. German biologists expect the growing packs to head soon toward Berlin.

Now, wolves in Berlin sounds like the stuff of science fiction, but it’s a science fact. What’s incredible is the response of the average European or East Asian. They literally shrug their shoulders; they can’t imagine changing their lifestyle to accommodate having two or more children instead of one or none. They believe against all evidence in a technological or political solution to this problem.

But, as columnist Mark Steyn writes, “there’s simply no precedent for managed decline in societies as advanced as Europe’s”—or Japan, for that matter. Throughout history, societies in demographic decline, usually as a result of disease, have faced two unattractive options: a decline in their standard of living or the replacement of their native population with a more fertile immigrant one.

Europe has, essentially by default, chosen the latter. But as last week’s bombings in London illustrate, turning millions of Islamic immigrants into “Europeans,” however you define the term, is a dubious proposition. And in Japan, where racial purity is a primary cultural value, the population faces eventual extinction.

It’s hard to imagine a better example of the importance of worldviews, and specifically in this case, the Christian one. Steyn is right when he says that Europe’s decline is directly linked to its hostility towards Christianity. Its rejection of what Christianity teaches about the family has made the continent safe for another kind of family: four-legged ones who howl at the moon.

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Ive been warning of this for sometime now but it seems I may have as well been howling at the moon.

How is Europe hostile towards christianity?

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How is Europe hostile towards christianity?

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Are you kidding? Ask Jag ~D

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But as last week’s bombings in London illustrate, turning millions of Islamic immigrants into “Europeans,” however you define the term, is a dubious proposition.

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Is this article implying that all the Muslims in Europe are terrorists?! Because that is what it sounds like!

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Steyn is right when he says that Europe’s decline is directly linked to its hostility towards Christianity. Its rejection of what Christianity teaches about the family has made the continent safe for another kind of family: four-legged ones who howl at the moon.

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The declining birth rate is due to lifestyle changes, not because of a rejection of Christianity.

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Although the birth rate is declining, in much of Europe there are enough immigrants from areas of the world with high birth rates to keep the population steady.

Of course the "Birth-rate" is going to go down overall. It can not be sustained at the rate set in the "Baby-Boom" years. It does not mean a race will become extinct, just that there will be a less people.

When I was growing up in the 70's there were warnings of a "population" explosion. This may have helped form the opinion in some people that there is already too many people, and made the choice not to have any children. However, people didn't see this just an abberation caused by the end of WWII.

We have built an infrastructure based on that "growth curve". Now that the growth has stopped or slowed, we need to adjust our view of what is important.

This article is funny, over exaggerated and false as well!

This is no news, everyone in europe has known this for ages. And why is the alternative to accept immigrants unattractive?

You know there are atheists in US too? ~;) And about muslim emmigrants in Europe.Arent all Indoeuropean peoples in Europe immigrants from East?Ive also heard that Southern US is getting pretty Hispanic.Poorer people have had an long tradition to move to places where are better possibilities to get rich.Its true that birth rates in Europe ar going downhill pretty fast.But i dont think it has nothing to do with Christian values.You know in Rome in about year 0 they had pretty similar problem because women from patrician families were concentrating other things than having children.
When a cultureS reaches certain degree of development.They have started to decline always in World history.Maybe our western civilization have reached it. :bow:

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Is this article implying that all the Muslims in Europe are terrorists?! Because that is what it sounds like!

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Where does it say ALL? The fact is thought that many among them are terrorists and that you dont find european christains becoming terrorists.

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The declining birth rate is due to lifestyle changes, not because of a rejection of Christianity.

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The changing lifestyle is a result of rejection of christianity.

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Of course the "Birth-rate" is going to go down overall.

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Why? It isnt going down in the rest of the world.

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It can not be sustained at the rate set in the "Baby-Boom" years

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Thats not the roblem. Who wants that? The problem is that they cant even maitain the population they have now.

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This is no news, everyone in europe has known this for ages. And why is the alternative to accept immigrants unattractive?

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Its not if you dont mind eseeing your way of life and that of your country go down the drain. Hell why should we care how many mexicans move her. Let them take over.

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Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkney

Where does it say ALL?

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well...

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But as last week’s bombings in London illustrate, turning millions of Islamic immigrants into “Europeans,” however you define the term, is a dubious proposition.

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By mentioning the terror bombings in London first, and then using the phrase 'millions of Islamic immigrants', the article is implying that these millions of Islamic immigrants are supporters of the attcks, which they plainly don't.

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Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkney

The fact is thought that many among them are terrorists and that you dont find european christains becoming terrorists.

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The vast majority of muslims deplore terrorism. And as for Christian terrorists, how about the IRA? A lot of the IRA violence was due to protestant/catholic tensions.

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Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkney

The changing lifestyle is a result of rejection of christianity.

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No, it's because of a reduced need of children for labour and the economic cost of children. I don't think that these people would have more children if they were more 'obedient' to Christianity (anyway, when did Christianity say that you had to have large families?)

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Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkney

Why? It isn't going down in the rest of the world.

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That's because in the rest of the world (the 'developing' parts), large numbers of children are economically useful, since they provide extra labour.

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Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkney

The problem is that they cant even maitain the population they have now.

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Actually, due to immigration, most can.

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Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkney

Its not if you dont mind eseeing your way of life and that of your country go down the drain. Hell why should we care how many mexicans move her. Let them take over.

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Immigrants hardly come in enough strength for this supposed 'takeover' you are talking about. They sustain economies. And although some don't, many immigrants do integrate into the society they move into.

Gawain how would you deal with this problem?

Hm what about Japan and its falling birthrate. I guess they rejected Christianity too...


CBR

Ive been warning of this for sometime now but it seems I may have as well been howling at the moon.
Yes you have havn't you ~;)
Last time you posted an article by a neo-Nazi , this time you post an article by an ex-con .
Whats up ? Can't you find any decent sources . ~D ~D ~D

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how would you deal with this problem?

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simple, have sex... :D

Gawain this article is completely false. I'll give you 3 reasons and I want you to address them:

1. Japan is homogenous and doesn't have immigration therefore their existence as a nation is not gonna end as long as people have even one kid. The only minority in Japan is some Koreans from middle ages and some native populations in the north. None compare to the collosal 140 million japanese.
The decline in their population is due to their shrinking of employment opportunities, therefore a good thing IMO.

2. Germany has more people then it has eve had. How can this article claim that their sewage(sp?) is being underused when in fact more people live per city then the time the sewage was built? That's just ridiculous.

3. Christianity is not a way of life. Going to church has nothing to do with how you treat your wife, when you get married, or even how many children you have. China is atheist, why did they have such high rise? Again it's ridiculous. IMHO the falling birth rates are caused by the fact that more people have careers and live in cities and have a high standard of living. Why would I want 5 kids when I could have 1 or 2 and still be able to work. Also the women would lose 18 months. Taht's over a year of employment.

Please answer these, I think we all want to know why you would take this article seriously. :bow:

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Originally Posted by Sjakihata

simple, have sex... :D

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But those damned females outsmart us by using birth control pills! ~D

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By mentioning the terror bombings in London first, and then using the phrase 'millions of Islamic immigrants', the article is implying that these millions of Islamic immigrants are supporters of the attcks, which they plainly don't

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Well your entitiled to your interpretation but to me it says that among the millions of Muslims some terrorists were included. It says nothng of what your on about.

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The vast majority of muslims deplore terrorism.

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Do they or do they jusat say they do? Besides that has nothing to do with this. All the terrorists are Muslims not all Mulsims are terrorists is the point.

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And as for Christian terrorists, how about the IRA? A lot of the IRA violence was due to protestant/catholic tensions.

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Does the IRA threaten the world?

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No, it's because of a reduced need of children for labour and the economic cost of children. I don't think that these people would have more children if they were more 'obedient' to Christianity (anyway, when did Christianity say that you had to have large families?)

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You couldnt be more wrong. Its because of abortion and birth control. How can you say that their wouldnt be more children if all catholics didnt use birth control and no christains had abortions?

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That's because in the rest of the world (the 'developing' parts), large numbers of children are economically useful, since they provide extra labour.

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Well I belive that abortion is not allowed in Islam. I dont know about birth control. So its your position that only the poor can afford to have children. Whoda thunk it?

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Actually, due to immigration, most can.

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Im speaking of native population.

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Immigrants hardly come in enough strength for this supposed 'takeover' you are talking about. They sustain economies. And although some don't, many immigrants do integrate into the society they move into.

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You better start paying arttention to reality. The Mexicans here dont call it La Reconquista for nothing. Three million illegals from Mexico alone every year and that not counting the legal ones. Thats coming here in plenty of strength. In a mere 10 years that means they have accounted for 1tenth of our population.

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Originally Posted by CBR

Hm what about Japan and its falling birthrate. I guess they rejected Christianity too...


CBR

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What do you say about this Gawain?

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Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny

You couldnt be more wrong. Its because of abortion and birth control. How can you say that their wouldnt be more children if all catholics didnt use birth control and no christains had abortions?

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And some would say catholics are not true christians and the pope is anti-christ himself. True protestants wouldnt allow the church to have anything to say in that matter ~:)


CBR

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Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkney

Do they or do they jusat say they do? Besides that has nothing to do with this. All the terrorists are Muslims not all Mulsims are terrorists is the point.

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No, they do. And 'all the terrorists are Muslims'! No they're not. Take the IRA (again) as an example. All the terrorism that is in the media is by 'Muslims'. I say 'Muslims' because there is a very good case for saying that although these people act in the name of Islam, they have nothing to do with true Islam.

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Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkney

Does the IRA threaten the world?

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Only if we let it. And the same goes to A-Q. It does not threaten the world unless we let their actions change our way of life. If we do not let them, then all they can do is kill people, but not threaten our world.

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Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkney

You couldnt be more wrong. Its because of abortion and birth control. How can you say that their wouldnt be more children if all catholics didnt use birth control and no christains had abortions?

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Oh no, giving people the choice as to whether they want children or not!

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Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkney

Im speaking of native population.

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I don't really care about native populations. A Briton is a Briton, regardless of where they are born. I don't know what it's like in the U.S., though...

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Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkney

You better start paying arttention to reality. The Mexicans here dont call it La Reconquista for nothing. Three million illegals from Mexico alone every year and that not counting the legal ones. Thats coming here in plenty of strength. In a mere 10 years that means they have accounted for 1tenth of our population.

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To be perfectly honest, I don't really care about Mexican immigrants. This thread is about 'Europe's demgraphic crisis', after all. In Britain, depite a lot of people moaning about immigration, immigrants from all backgrounds form something like 7% of the population, and most of them feel British. It's hardly an imminent takeover.

i hope that the author was using the "wolves at the gates" concept as a metaphor...

are you kidding? europe isnt hostile towards christianity?

it seems that european politics is operating off of the tautological falshood that:
IF catholic THEN pro-life (one of many examples examples)

IF catholic THEN bad

IF pro-life THEN catholic

pro-life = Bad


i am using catholic for any christian denomination that is either relativly hard-line or fundamental - and it is an example of how it SEEMS, not how it is

First aren't Mexicans largely of Spanish Ethnic origion and Catholic in religion. So don't they count as Europeans?

In particular But as last week’s bombings in London illustrate,
turning millions of Islamic immigrants into “Europeans,” however you define the term, is a dubious proposition.

According to my understanding of English Grammar the statement can be rearranged more clearly to:
It is a dubious proposition turning millions of Islamic immigrants into "Europeans" as illustrated by last week's bombing in London

It is saying that all (millions) of Islamic immigrants are responsible for the bombings last week. Now that is as I have already stated before a very broad brush to state an entire group of society is responsible for the ills done by a few. Now is saying that an entire religion is responsible a racist attack or not?

Lets start saying all Catholics are terrorists because of the IRA bombings. Lets start saying all Christians are murderers for the actions of the KKK.
Exactly how stupid and racist would that be? The authour of this article is just as patently racist and stupid, the only thing stopping people seeing that is their own prejudice.

Falling birth rate is due to education and the knowledge gained that allows people to choose. Working longer hours, spending more time getting the education and paying for it. Also the understanding of how to get pregnant, so simple methods to avoid it until in a secure finacial position to look after the child.

But all this

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education and the knowledge gained that allows people to choose. Working longer hours, spending more time getting the education and paying for it. Also the understanding of how to get pregnant, so simple methods to avoid it until in a secure finacial position to look after the child.

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Is still not a great thing to have going on when your nation can become extinct without immigration.

As a side question: does the "average" (IE NOT supportive-of-terrorist-attacks) Moslem in Europe have similar political leanings as the "average" European? I know, its hard to work with that definition. But I'll ask it a different way:

Does the average Moslem immigrant vote the same way as the average Briton or Frenchman (or anyone else, sorry), or do they form a voting block that consistantly votes one way?

EDIT: Fixed to be more sensitive to non-Brits and non-Frenchmen. What a limp-wristed pansy I'm turning into. ~D

Whats the average amount of children on white americans?

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Does the average Moslem immigrant vote the same way as the average Briton or Frenchman, or do they form a voting block that consistantly votes one way?

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I cannot answer for either France or Britain, but I can for Denmark. In Denmark, moslems tend to vote on the center parties. Especially one called the radical left. Explanation, the part Left, historically, was the farmers party opposed to the conservatives, the noblemens party. However, today left is a liberal party (known to americans as republican), actually more conservative than the danish party The Conservative. The radical left has an ideology focusing on pascifism and modern liberal views (free market, human rights, democracy etc). This party gets a lot of the moslem votes in Denmark. Most moslems, though, doesnt vote.

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Whats the average amount of children on white americans?

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Prolly much lower than the 2.1 replacement rate, especially since the American average is 2.07. :embarassed:

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I cannot answer for either France or Britain, but I can for Denmark.

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Sorry, fixed.

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In Denmark, moslems tend to vote on the center parties. Especially one called the radical left. Explanation, the part Left, historically, was the farmers party opposed to the conservatives, the noblemens party. However, today left is a liberal party (known to americans as republican), actually more conservative than the danish party The Conservative. The radical left has an ideology focusing on pascifism and modern liberal views (free market, human rights, democracy etc). This party gets a lot of the moslem votes in Denmark. Most moslems, though, doesnt vote.

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Hmmm. Thank you!

So you Americans are near extinction aswell? ~;)

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First aren't Mexicans largely of Spanish Ethnic origion and Catholic in religion. So don't they count as Europeans?

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Actually mexicans have a signifigant native american population,hence their darker skin, mixed in with their spanish ancestory.

But, anyways the defiantly wouldnt be counted as eurpeans. Do you count the average white american to be european. Sure we are of european ancestory, but we arnt european.

The problem with the large hispanic immagrations is that many of them dont integrate into american society and even learn english.

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So you Americans are near extinction aswell?

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Nope. Like the Euros, we get enough immigration to balance it out. :book:

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No, they do.

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I suppose you can back that up.

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And 'all the terrorists are Muslims'! No they're not.

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Yes they are as far as the bombings in London are concerned.

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Take the IRA (again) as an example

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Again a very poor example. The IRA have no interest in spready christianity around the world. Their whole bag is about Ireland alone. No one in the US or France is worried about the IRA.

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All the terrorism that is in the media is by 'Muslims'.

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Thats because lately their the only ones doing it.

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I say 'Muslims' because there is a very good case for saying that although these people act in the name of Islam, they have nothing to do with true Islam.

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And they would say they are the only true Muslims and everyone else is an infidel and deserves to die. In fact thats exactly what they do say. Of course theres only a few hundred million of them nothing to worry about.

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Only if we let it.

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It has no wordly asperations . What have you been smoking as I want some of that. ~D

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It does not threaten the world unless we let their actions change our way of life. If we do not let them, then all they can do is kill people, but not threaten our world.

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Thats the point the IRAs actions dont effect us here in the least. Its only between Britain and Ireland. This cannot be said of AQ and other Muslim extremist groups.

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Oh no, giving people the choice as to whether they want children or not!

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Who was it said acting like christains wouldnt increase the population? Thats what this was adressing.

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And some would say catholics are not true christians and the pope is anti-christ himself.

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Well the original church was the catholic one. All protestant churches are merely watered down versions of the same thing. Many catholics would argue the Martin Luther was the anti christ though Im far more inclined to give that honor to Mohamed.

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I don't really care about native populations. A Briton is a Briton, regardless of where they are born. I don't know what it's like in the U.S., though...

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Well their you go. I hope you dont mind your decendants speaking arabic and facing Mecca 5 times a day.

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True protestants wouldnt allow the church to have anything to say in that matter

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Thats why their protestants ~D And your right I believe theres nothing about contrception in their churches. However I believe they do frown on abortion.

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Originally Posted by CBR
Hm what about Japan and its falling birthrate. I guess they rejected Christianity too...


CBR


What do you say about this Gawain?

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Well in the year I lived there I didnt meet one Japanese Christain nor did I see any churches. ~D

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Originally Posted by Byzantine Prince

Gawain this article is completely false. I'll give you 3 reasons and I want you to address them:

1. Japan is homogenous and doesn't have immigration therefore their existence as a nation is not gonna end as long as people have even one kid. The only minority in Japan is some Koreans from middle ages and some native populations in the north. None compare to the collosal 140 million japanese.
The decline in their population is due to their shrinking of employment opportunities, therefore a good thing IMO.

2. Germany has more people then it has eve had. How can this article claim that their sewage(sp?) is being underused when in fact more people live per city then the time the sewage was built? That's just ridiculous.

3. Christianity is not a way of life. Going to church has nothing to do with how you treat your wife, when you get married, or even how many children you have. China is atheist, why did they have such high rise? Again it's ridiculous. IMHO the falling birth rates are caused by the fact that more people have careers and live in cities and have a high standard of living. Why would I want 5 kids when I could have 1 or 2 and still be able to work. Also the women would lose 18 months. Taht's over a year of employment.

Please answer these, I think we all want to know why you would take this article seriously. :bow:

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Gawain...are you gonna reply to this?

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Originally Posted by Alexander the Pretty Good

Nope. Like the Euros, we get enough immigration to balance it out. :book:

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Hey.There is pretty much immigration coming here too,If your immigrants are coming mainly from Latin America.Immigration to Europe is mainly from Asia and Africa. :book:

I'm not disagreeing. ~:)

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Japan is homogenous and doesn't have immigration therefore their existence as a nation is not gonna end as long as people have even one kid.

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And when the last couple has the last kid then what?

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2. Germany has more people then it has eve had. How can this article claim that their sewage(sp?) is being underused when in fact more people live per city then the time the sewage was built? That's just ridiculous.

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He didnt say it effected all of Germany .

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Christianity is not a way of life

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Obviously your not a christian.

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Going to church has nothing to do with how you treat your wife

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And it also has nothing to do with being a christian however I would maintain that being a christain does indeed effect how you treat your wife. Muslims treat their very differently just in case you hadnt noticed.

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IMHO the falling birth rates are caused by the fact that more people have careers and live in cities and have a high standard of living

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Thats the point. People worship having fun and the almighty dollar over family and decency. They live only for today and themselves.

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Why would I want 5 kids when I could have 1 or 2 and still be able to work

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Wait until you have one. I grew up with 6 brothers and I wouldnt want any of them not to have been born even though I would have had much more monetary things as a kid and a much bigger inheritance now.

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Also the women would lose 18 months. Taht's over a year of employment.

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How horrible.

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Originally Posted by Alexander the Pretty Good

I'm not disagreeing. ~:)

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Sorry i misread your post. :embarassed:
I think its time to me to go to bed if im gonna get up tomorrow for work its 3:15 am in here. ~:cheers:

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Sorry i misread your post.

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No probalo. I do it too. ~:)

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I think its time to me to go to bed if im gonna get up tomorrow for work its 3:15 am in here.

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Nighty night! ~:cheers:

=Gawain of Orkeny]And when the last couple has the last kid then what?
What is this the high school debating club? We both know that's neve gonna hapen.

He didnt say it effected all of Germany .
Well then that's called *cherry-picking*. Anyone with half a brain can just pick 2 or more towns(not cities) and say they have sewage problems in any country of the world.


Obviously your not a christian.
So what? Only are allowed to have family values?


And it also has nothing to do with being a christian however I would maintain that being a christain does indeed effect how you treat your wife. Muslims treat their very differently just in case you hadnt noticed.
I'm not talking about other religions. To me they are all equally worthless. In Europe white europeans are not converting to Islam, so even that point is void. Seeing as most prefer atheism, there's nothing there that allows for debauchery that hasn't already existed when everyone was Christian.


Thats the point. People worship having fun and the almighty dollar over family and decency. They live only for today and themselves.
Isn't that the way we have always lived? Seriously. Has there ever been theocracy in the US, because that's the only way what you just described could have been prevented.



Wait until you have one. I grew up with 6 brothers and I wouldnt want any of them not to have been born even though I would have had much more monetary things as a kid and a much bigger inheritance now.
I'm miserable enough with one brother, any more and I would be suicidal. To think of all the money that could have been spent on me instead of him is mind-boggling.

The article is stupid. Period. :book:

Wolves are going back to their age old hunting grounds? Excellent! They were there before the peopel were.

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Thats the point. People worship having fun and the almighty dollar over family and decency. They live only for today and themselves.

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Wait a second. You can live for today and not care about money and still love your family. Just because people aren't afraid they're going to burn in hell doesn't mean they all love money and hate their family.

And this articale frankly scares me. It reeks of racial purity in my mind. I think it's time people realized that no one is racially pure of any sort. Everyone has genes from all over the place.

How about instead of having more kids, they adopt? There are a whole bunch of homeless kids around the world. My aunt and uncle said when they adopted my little cousin from China, there were a whole bunch more children that didn't have any kids.

The article is stupid. Period.
Probably because the author of the article is a stupid person .

Whats wrong with people wanting to perserve their race? I dont think whit people are better tan any others, but i dont want to see our heritage/culture die out. The same goes for any race.

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Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny

Why? It isnt going down in the rest of the world.

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The "Baby-Boom" only affected the main combantant nations in WWII, they have a different population profile.

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The problem is that they cant even maitain the population they have now.

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Whose problem, nameless faceless bureaucrats managing an infrastructure.

If there are less people in the country, there will be less demand in the country, less demand cheaper prices overall in the country: Economics 101. Good for the consumer, bad for business.

NOTE: Some commodities that have an international demand, like oil, will be unaffected. So business involved in these will be fine.

Whats wrong with people wanting to perserve their race?
Well the author is American , the person he quotes is Canadian , so out of the mish mash of races that make up the population of those countries what race are they talking about ? The same goes for Europe , what race , heritage or culture ?
Or are they just babbling on about some non existant white christian race ?

It's actually very touching how caring Gawain is over us Europeans sex life and future exitence. I must say I am in tears..... ~;)

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It's actually very touching how caring Gawain is over us Europeans sex life and future exitence. I must say I am in tears...

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Oh yeah. Well I dont give two craps about the sex life and future exitence of Indonesians. ~D My only concern obviously is for the white race. I guess bemoaning the fact that your people are slowly making themselves extinct makes you a racist around here these days.

Again as far as genetics is concerned we are a single race.

A white horse is not a different race to a brown horse.

The differences are cultural, religion and technology.

BTW methinks Bmolsson is of European descent (he can correct me if I am wrong).

The only concern I have with the declining cultures is that if we give immigrants the vote, then they can change our culture in fundemental ways.

I dont think the spanish over here would, but the muslims have some very different takes on the world that I dont think real europeans would appreciate being forced on them.

I dont plan on having any children so I guess im part of the problem, but if the mexicans ever try their "reconquista" - ill be ready to fight them. :shrug:

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Again as far as genetics is concerned we are a single race.

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We maybe a single species but we are not a single race though at one time we probably were.

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A white horse is not a different race to a brown horse.

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Nope but therea more thata differnt between say colored people. pc crap., and us thanjust the color of our skin.

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10 entries found for race.
race1 Audio pronunciation of "race" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (rs)
n.

1. A local geographic or global human population distinguished as a more or less distinct group by genetically transmitted physical characteristics.
2. A group of people united or classified together on the basis of common history, nationality, or geographic distribution: the German race.
3. A genealogical line; a lineage.
4. Humans considered as a group.
5. Biology.
1. An interbreeding, usually geographically isolated population of organisms differing from other populations of the same species in the frequency of hereditary traits. A race that has been given formal taxonomic recognition is known as a subspecies.
2. A breed or strain, as of domestic animals.
6. A distinguishing or characteristic quality, such as the flavor of a wine.


[French, from Old French, from Old Italian razza, race, lineage.]

Usage Note: The notion of race is nearly as problematic from a scientific point of view as it is from a social one. European physical anthropologists of the 17th and 18th centuries proposed various systems of racial classifications based on such observable characteristics as skin color, hair type, body proportions, and skull measurements, essentially codifying the perceived differences among broad geographic populations of humans. The traditional terms for these populationsCaucasoid (or Caucasian), Mongoloid, Negroid, and in some systems Australoidare now controversial in both technical and nontechnical usage, and in some cases they may well be considered offensive. (Caucasian does retain a certain currency in American English, but it is used almost exclusively to mean “white” or “European” rather than “belonging to the Caucasian race,” a group that includes a variety of peoples generally categorized as nonwhite.) The biological aspect of race is described today not in observable physical features but rather in such genetic characteristics as blood groups and metabolic processes, and the groupings indicated by these factors seldom coincide very neatly with those put forward by earlier physical anthropologists. Citing this and other pointssuch as the fact that a person who is considered black in one society might be nonblack in anothermany cultural anthropologists now consider race to be more a social or mental construct than an objective biological fact.

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Scienticly speaking of course you are correct. But I would hate to see all black horses dissapear from the earth as weel . Also these

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The differences are cultural, religion and technology.

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are the things that we are most in danger of losing.

Or gaining in the melting pot.

All I need to do is go up to the local food hall and have a wealth of options to choose from in food.

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Or gaining in the melting pot.

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You put too much of anything in that pot and it starts to obtain the flavor of what ever it is your adding. Thats not always a good thing.

Do you think as an immigrant who is married to an immigrant, who is the son of immigrants, who is the grandchild of immigrants that I am at all intimidated by immigrants?

I am an immigrant too. Nearly all US/Australia/NZ/Canada etc. (New World Countries) citizens are immigrants. They are what make these countries who they are now.

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I am an immigrant too. Nearly all US/Australia/NZ/Canada etc. (New World Countries) citizens are immigrants. They are what make these countries who they are now.

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No irs not. Most people who emigrated to these counties did so in the beggining and for the most part from Europe and they got their Laws and governments from being part of the British Empire. I have no problem with legal immigration . But what we have now is chaos both here and over there. Again Rome never really fell. Just so many people or barbarians became Romans that they were no longer a race . That and the fact I believe that their birth rate also couldnt maintain the population. I guess its the cost of becoming the most civilised is to make yourself extinct.That or a cruel trick of god.

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Originally Posted by kiwitt

I am an immigrant too. Nearly all US/Australia/NZ/Canada etc. (New World Countries) citizens are immigrants. They are what make these countries who they are now.

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The problem isnt with immigrants that blend with the native culture while adding some nice new flavor, but with the ones that try to change the culture to the way things are in the country they left.

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The problem isnt with immigrants that blend with the native culture while adding some nice new flavor, but with the ones that try to change the culture to the way things are in the country they left.

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Like Kosovo and it can be argued Israel.

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Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny

Oh yeah. Well I dont give two craps about the sex life and future exitence of Indonesians. ~D My only concern obviously is for the white race. I guess bemoaning the fact that your people are slowly making themselves extinct makes you a racist around here these days.

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Just for the record;

Indonesians don't need any help with sex or reproduction.... ~D

bmolsson is a Swede and will always be one. Even though he have adapted to the Indonesian passion for sex and reproduction...... ~;)

The only concern I have with the declining cultures is that if we give immigrants the vote, then they can change our culture in fundemental ways.
Give up your vote Panzer you immigrant ~D ~D ~D

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Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube

Sucks for you Euros. Luckily, us Americans are as prolific is ever.

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Actually it makes sense. All nations with fundamentalistic views have a very high brithrate. Another evidence on the US theocracy...... ~:cheers:

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Originally Posted by bmolsson

Actually it makes sense. All nations with fundamentalistic views have a very high brithrate. Another evidence on the US theocracy...... ~:cheers:

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hmmm.. Fathers of modern democracy are now a theocracy. News to me. :dizzy2:

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Originally Posted by King of Atlantis

hmmm.. Fathers of modern democracy are now a theocracy. News to me. :dizzy2:

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It's ok, after all you are from Florida.... ~:grouphug:

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Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny

Well in the year I lived there I didnt meet one Japanese Christain nor did I see any churches. ~D

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I guess you haven't been to Nagasaki then ~;)

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Again a very poor example. The IRA have no interest in spready christianity around the world. Their whole bag is about Ireland alone. No one in the US or France is worried about the IRA.

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So it was fine for the IRA to shoot, bomb, kneecap and rob as long as it doesn't affect Americans or France...but only the British?

Sheer hypocrisy

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Originally Posted by InsaneApache

So it was fine for the IRA to shoot, bomb, kneecap and rob as long as it doesn't affect Americans or France...but only the British?

Sheer hypocrisy

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There terrorist acts are not okay at all, but they are much toned down from the islamic extremist.

Well it was vaguely interesting until:

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and specifically in this case, the Christian one. Steyn is right when he says that Europe’s decline is directly linked to its hostility towards Christianity

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At which point it became clear that it was another pointless foray from bible bashers. Yawn.. go back to the 14th century - someone there might actually listen.

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There terrorist acts are not okay at all, but they are much toned down from the islamic extremist.

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Really!!!!....tell that to a certain Mr. Parry who's 12 year old son was blown into little pieces by an IRA bomb hidden in a rubbish bin as he walked past. How can it possibly make any difference if the bullet lodged in your skull was fired by a Finian or a Moslem. ALL terrorism is evil.

Perhaps if those deluded Americans who 'supported' those foul nasty people known as 'freedom fighters' had stopped and thought for a minute then maybe, just maybe there would be more people alive today. The hypocrisy is in this so called 'war on terror'....errr...excuse me, we (UK) have been fighting this very war for over 40 years, but it wasn't until America was attacked that it became a global issue....like I said....sheer hypocrisy.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/low/...00/2544121.stm :thumbsdown:

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Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny

I've been warning of this for sometime now but it seems I may have as well been howling at the moon.

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Gawain, please do not have the impression that we Europeans do not listen to your warnings. I changed my life completely. I will have a new baby in August - the second in 19 months! If I continue there will be a huge increase in population soon. ~:cheers:
Some other comments:
Population increase and decrease effects the culture and the property of a nation. None is only positive none is only negative. The big increase of population in the 19th century was one root for the two WWs.
The baby boom in the 60ies gave us econominal growth. But as I am part of it I have to say that it has some draw backs as well.
Today's situation gives some disadvanteges, but some advantages as well. In the long run, what would be so bad if the world had only half as much Germans as it has today? As long as we win the football championship ~:)
Regarding the muslims and other immigrants in Europe. This is a very complex story. It varies from country to country. In Germany most of the immigrants are Turkish, many of them in the 3rd generation. Many of them are well integrated and have a German kind of lifestyle. Many gained property, have houses or stores. But many others are still not integrated. They hardly speak any German, have low education and high unemployment. Being here in the 3rd generation they do not have a modern Turkish lifestyle. So most of them are looking for a new identity. The result of this is that the attraction of fundamental islam has grown and that the willingness for integration is lower than ever.

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Originally Posted by InsaneApache

So it was fine for the IRA to shoot, bomb, kneecap and rob as long as it doesn't affect Americans or France...but only the British?

Sheer hypocrisy

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And partially wrong. Some IRA members WERE arrested in Paris in the 80s in a flat fulled by weapons. It even led to a scandal, as some of the weapons had been added by the cops to "add" to the worth of their discovery, but nevertheless those were preparing something out of the british Isles.

Anyways, around 1/3 of the muslims here(most being of North-African Ascent) do marry "locals" (including numerous metis from the french indies, btw - but those are french since 3-4 centuries). Of course you still have a core of crazy salafists - who forbid themselves marrying outside the "sons of the prophet and its followers"(read the arabs), but they are not numerous enough to make a demographic impact. And the funny side is that as early as the 2nd generation, immigrants tend to adopt local's natality behaviour.

That being said, natality rates are a problem. A light one in France(around 1.9), where a light immigration is enough. A strong one in Italy, Spain or Japan, that have to rethink about themselves - one way or another. And one might ask : "what is the difference between France and Spain?". Spain is...more catholic!!! So catholicism is obviously not a relevant factor, or better : it can be relevant but other factors may be stronger. The difference is that France has one of the most efficient network of facilities for taking care of youngsters. So that a lady can manage a career, have 3 children, and still have an impressive career - because she can use that network for taking care of her children.

In other words : christianism may have boosted the birth rate in americas, but it was counterproductive in Europe after the so-called "woman's freeding". As countries wanting to respect a traditional family structure are those who invested the least in the management of children of working women(Italy & Spain especially). So ladies over there have to choose between their career & their job. There is still much work to do over there, but we're overall better than our neighbours.

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Originally Posted by el_slapper

natality

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Cool! I learned a new word today... thanks el_slapper ~:cheers:

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Originally Posted by Ser Clegane

I guess you haven't been to Nagasaki then ~;)

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Also I just checked some stats on Japan, Christians make up 0.7% of the population. So 0.7% of 127 and some change million is 891,921 christians in Japan. Which is a friggin miracle considering that the Tokugawas purged all the christians they could find in like 1620.

make it mandantory for all men and women capable to have unprotected sex at least once aday until they have at least 2,2 children!
That would be nice.

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Originally Posted by Kaiser of Arabia

make it mandantory for all men and women capable to have unprotected sex at least once aday until they have at least 2,2 children!
That would be nice.

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With anyone in particular or just whoever happens to be closest?

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Originally Posted by Ja'chyra

With anyone in particular or just whoever happens to be closest?

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Opposite sex of your choosing. :bow:

Hey Kaiser,
you are currently in Germany, aren't you? Are working on the solution? ~:)
P.S.: How is your stay?

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Originally Posted by Franconicus

Hey Kaiser,
you are currently in Germany, aren't you? Are working on the solution? ~:)
P.S.: How is your stay?

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I'm workin on it ~:cheers: ~:cool:
BTW I'm having a great time
Straßburg tommorow!

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Originally Posted by Kaiser of Arabia

Opposite sex of your choosing. :bow:

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That gets my vote.

I'll go for that ~:cheers: ....just don't tell the wife ~;)

IA, you're absolutely correct. The IRA was horrible and despicable, and no less the bloodthirsty murderers that Al Queda are. There's actually a family feud in my family between myself & one of my cousins versus 2 of my cousins from a different branch. We haven't spoken anything other than formalities in close to 20 years, because they were 'passing a hat for the cause'. It was disgusting then and it's disgusting now, and I apologize for the misguided financial support given by some of my (regretfully) extended family members.

kudos to you Don.....it's a shame you still arn't talking though. Perhaps if you agreed not to discuss this topic you might find time for a game and a couple of beers.

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Originally Posted by King of Atlantis

There terrorist acts are not okay at all, but they are much toned down from the islamic extremist.

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http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/events/omagh/omagh.jpg

http://www.battlehill395.freeserve.c...%20victims.jpg

http://www.open2.net/reith2004/jpegs...birmingham.jpg

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Originally Posted by King of Atlantis
There terrorist acts are not okay at all, but they are much toned down from the islamic extremist.

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Look no one is saying that their acts of terrorism arent just as bad as say AQs.The difference is that they dont threaten the wole world. Its like comparing Hitler to Jeffery Domers. Yes their both horrible people but Hitler was far more dangerous. Again the IRA doesnt threaten the entire planet.

The ONLY thing I might say, and this is in no way a mitigation of the vile acts the IRA perpetrated, was that there were two factions operating, and some of the more extreme factions in the Orange Order weren't that much better.