Hi all experienced players!
I started this thread couse i would like some basic tactics help.
You can post your best tactics or/and your best battle decisions.
You are free to argue of anything you want in tactics of course. begin!
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Hi all experienced players!
I started this thread couse i would like some basic tactics help.
You can post your best tactics or/and your best battle decisions.
You are free to argue of anything you want in tactics of course. begin!
Romans - mass men, hold pos (guard), fire at will, watch the enemy fall under your pila.
(you said basic...)
I always try to eliminate the enemy missile units ASAP. This can be done in many ways. The simplest solution is to bring more and better missile units of your own and have them outshoot the enemy's. If they are camped on high ground then artillery such as onagers is the safest way, though it takes a while. Using cavalry units to harass the enemy flanks might give you an opportunity to charge their archers, but this is quite risky and requires good manouvering.
Infantry and cavalry can usually be rather easily kept in check by spearmen and by strenghtening your flanks, so if you can take out their missiles and keep your own line in formation and flanks protected then you will probably win against an equal strength army. Special units such as elephants and chariots can still prove to be a problem though, so make sure you have something to counter them with (velites/peltasts, flaming piggies etc) if the enemy is fielding such units.
In my opinion one of the best tactics is this:
Make a cav. army , and while in battle you will be able to draw attention of enemy with your several cav. units and use others for flanking attack ...
Set up a battle line of heavy infantry or phalanxes. Flank with light/shock infantry and cavalry. Place missile units behind or in front of the line depending on your enemy. If your battle line has low morale (militia hoplites and such) place your general behind it, if not place him with the cavalry. Adjust your formation and all that depending on your enemy's formation and the outcome of each skirmish.
Thankyou for your tips and your great experience in battle "Conqueror" among other.
Ill just play this tactics out and if it doesn't work ill just quit playing :grin2:
Oh, I forgot to mention the Attrition Meat Wall of Cheapo Doom. As Greeks if you want to focus on your eastern borders first get a foothold in Italia. Then base 6-8 units of militia hoplites in a city and whenever the Romans attack place them across the streets with no room on either side. You then allow the Romans to charge your phalanxes and create a meat wall out of their corpses. It holds the Romans off for a very long time, costs next to nothing and though it usually eventually fails will give you plenty of time to crush the Thracians, Dacians, Ponts, whoever!
No flying horsies mods make militia hoplites fairly decent units actually.
The most basic of strategy:
Hold a line and allow no enemy troops go through it.
Flank the enemy.
Much simple....Always works.....
Hooding then rearing with cav ~D
The most useful basic tactic....
My reacent tactics for Seleucids.Works with both on offence and defence.Form up a pike wall.hit enemy to the both flanks with your elephants.Simultaneously move your Cavalry behind the enemy.Its beutifull to watch but make sure not to deploy your infantry too close to the enemy.Just let your Elephants do the work.those units that try to move forvards,destroy them with concentrated missile fire.And those who try to retreat or run,kill them with your cavalry. :bow:
Basic: Charge. :-D
But seriously, as a phalanx faction. Use phalanxes to hold the enemy in place either by staying in front of him and waiting for him to attack or simply attacking him, while cavalry works its way around the rear, simultaneously overwhelming any piecemeal cavalry units, and strike in enemy's rear. Tactics can't get much simpler in there unless you adopt the first line. :)
Holding the line, flank, hit them with your cav. in the rear - it is as simple as that and usually it works.
Didn't anybody tried a more complex tactic. Sometimes I try to seperate my army in two divisions and attack from the two flanks. Or I send a small protion to the side trying to make the enemy chase them and open its frontline.
I've done the deep battle method that Tuchachevsky came up with--spread out my units into a big random checkerboard, force the enemy to break up his force to engage all of them, then solidify my defence in all sorts of places, break into outflanking units or form lines as the situation allows, while all the while my cavalry is darting through they spread-out formations whacking them all shades of hell. Requires a lot of flexibility, a non-lagging graphics card, very fast scrollspeed and eyesight, but very rewarding to know that the enemy cannot divine my intent through my formation for the very good reason that I myself don't know (I develop the situation as it develops itself). That's the most advanced though. Other methods include Alexander's Gaugamela Echelon-refused flank attack, the all-out charge (I kid you not), the battle of manoeuvre that splits the enemy up, the tantalising withdrawal after initial contact that also breaks the enemy up. Also, one of the more rewarding ones includes Alexander's strategy against horsearchers that I have detailed on the Macedon thread in the guides.
Sometimes I tried to take troops back, just some yards to get the enemy in the position I want him to.
Problem is that the soldiers will not go backwards without turning. And they tend to panic. :furious3:
This is for the Egyptian players. Take your camel archers go around the enemy and shot them, while your main army Moves foward to attack them. Its very risky when the enemy has Cavalry but the camels have the ability to frighten horses :charge: . so i guess its ok.
Here are a few tactics that I have found to be very effective:
I always form one main battle line, unless the enemy have elephants.
If the enemy has elephants I hold back 2 pockets of spearmen about 3 or more unit lengths behind the main flanks. Once the elephants start ravaging your main line, charge them with these reserve spearmen, surrounding them. This will usually take out the enemy elephants or cause them to run away.
Archers are one of the most effective units that you can have against most foes. I generally try to have at least 2 archer units, but as many as 4, depending on the situation. I put them in one line BEHIND the main battle line. They can keep firing as the enemy assaults the battle line and do not have to run away.
I always turn Hastati, Principes, and Cohorts to Gaurd Position AND Fire At Will. I have especially found Fire At Will to be very useful. Many times the enemy will try to bluff your main line into charging at them and your pila can make many kills on the enemy.
I also put all of my Cavalry, including the General on Gaurd Position, even when I am the attacker. In case these units are attacked simultaneously and you do not have time to adequately respond (or later in the battle when things get hectic) they are ready to take on an attack.
Always try to flank the enemy. Never let a prolonged head-to-head melee go on without you flanking the enemy, if at all possible. Always plan to have some of your units haul azz behind the enemy and charge then from the rear. If you are using hoplites or phalanxes for this purpose, take them out of phalanx mode, run as fast as possible behind the enemy, then turn phalanx mode back on and charge them from behind without mercy!
Onagers are very useful for attacking enemy troop formations. Of course, I focus on the enemy's best units. I almost never turn Onagers to "Fire At Will" except under certain circumstances when beseiging cities after I have already taken out all important defesive structures.
I have found that with archers the "Use Fire" setting does not work as well against some heavy troops as normal arrows. Especially against the heavier Phalanxes and Cavalry.
If I am attacking a well garrisonned city, and I feel that I might just lose, I use flaming ammo. This will catch buildings on fire and injure any troops that are standing next to the buildings when they collapse.
I never use siege towers or ladders against stone walls. I also never use rams to try and break into the gates of a stone-walled city. I have found these to be highly ineffective for my purposes. I always sap the walls, and generally I can take out some enemy units when the walls collapse beneath them.
While beseiging stone-walled cities, bring with you Onagers. I bring at least 2, but 3 or 4 is better. Attack all towers in the area you are assaulting. Then focus all of them on the gate house if one is in the area you are assaulting. Only move your sappers forward after the towers and gatehouse have fallen. This will avoid many casualties.
After you have taken out the towers and gatehouse, try to take down a section of wall with troops standing on top of it.
I also bring with me 2 or 3 archer units. These are useful for picking off any archers standing on the stone walls.
I almost always train the best units I am allowed. I do not mess with lesser units unless I can't afford stronger units. I have found this to be a good strategy.
A line of skirmishers ahead of your main battle line can often be useful. These skirmishers really seem to piss off the enemy cavalry. They always seem to want to charge the skirmishers. This is useful because it allows you to destroy the enemy cavalry right off the bat.
I always try to have a good set of cav on both flanks. At least 2 cav units on each flank, but preferrably 3. I don't even mess with missile cav.
If you have a reasonable amount of artillery or archers and you have a good chance at taking out the nemy General, do it. However, if you find that your archers are not having much effect against the enemy general, switch to their best infantry. Again, try to see if you have a better kill ratio without fire.
I generally use flaming arrows unless I am not making enough kills with them on each barrage.
I almost always use my archers en masse. It is amazing how fast 3 archer units can whitle a unit of infantry into a routing handful of screaming ninnies!
:charge:
Best Stratagy Ever:
Kill the enemy while not letting them kill you.
It's perfect...
But seriously, I like Alexanders "Hammer and Anvil" stratagy. If I am playing as Romans, have my heavy infantry line with 2 units in reserve, and triarii on the flanks. My cavalry are all massed to one side. Once the enemy engages my line, my cavalry rush behind their line and hit them directly in the middle. If I have any archers, they are shooting at the center unit that I plan to hit with my cavalry. The whole line usualy collapses after that.
Hi. I wrote a guide not too long ago but never got around to finishing it. It still has a lot of great stuff though:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=46099
Hope this helps!
yesyesyes DA's thread rocks!
You are far to kind, my friend. :bow:Quote:
Originally Posted by pezhetairoi
(Green) Eye of the Storm
Get eight or more hopilie style units form a circle, sit your general and one Crete Archer in the middle. Start Battle, switch the time to max speed and go make a coffee. Come back and count the dead enemies.
More ranks, having a roving reserve (Spartan Hopilites) and other improvements all help.
But the end of the day it is your general who is in the eye of the storm.
Thanx a lot for this advice. I tried and my army was erased :furious3:Quote:
Originally Posted by Papewaio
I was Sel and had a FM with mercs (2 phalanx, 2 barb inf, 1 falx, 2 crete archers, 1 pelteasts, 1 barb cav). Enemy was Pontus, twice as strong. (their king with another FM, Sarmathian cav., 1 jav, rest desert inf). First their inf charged, then the two FMs. My line was shaken. I sent my FM and the falxs. My barb cav tried to get them in the rear. Enemy sent the Sarmathians. My phalanx was broken. My FM run away and so did the rest of the army. ~:eek: Big desaster
Now try it with 8 Hoplite units like he sugeested. ~DQuote:
Originally Posted by Franconicus
Since we're on the topic of Phalanxes...
What you could always do is use the a Flying Phalanx
RTW, being as historically inaccurate as it is, allows you to rapidly form phalanxes and unform them as well. This means you can negate one of the two main weaknesses of the Phalanx, agility; the other being unidirectional fighting.
So you can use this to give you phalanxes a reasonable speed.
Thus, if you play a horse/phalanx faction IE Macedon. You can use your superior cav to escort whole units of phalanxes behind the enemy. From there you can form up and sandwich some poor bastard between two phalanxes. It really makes you feel bad for those poor guys.
You can do alot of things by using phalanx units like this.
I will try as soon as I buried my old army ~;)Quote:
Originally Posted by bluerepper
By the way, welcome :balloon2:
Thanks! :) Been playing the TW series for about 4 or 5 years, figured it was about time to post on "The Org". ~:cheers:Quote:
Originally Posted by Franconicus
Ok, I tried it.
Brutii(AI, Attacking) vs. Greeks(me, Defending)
<Brutii>
4 Velites
6 Urban Cohorts
4 Legionary Cavalry
1 Heavy General
<Greeks>
3 Cretan Archers
8 Spartan Hoplites
1 General Cav*
* - I mistakenly made one of the Spartans the General, so this was just a cavalry unit.
I played this battle on Very Hard.
I formed my Spartan Hoplites into an Octagon with all corners overlapping a bit so that there were no gaps. I then placed the 3 Cretan Archers and General Cav in the middle of the Octogon.
I wanted this to be basically hands free to test the theory, but I did end up doing 2 things.
Right off the bat the AI took the Legionary Cav to the side of the Octagon and waited there. So, I faced my General Cav toward them inside the circle.
Also, at the end, the line of sight of one unit of Cretans was blocked, so only a few of them could fire. This was taking FOREVER, so I moved them a bit so that most of them could fire.
That's all I did the entire time.
Here are my observations:
The AI was ridiculously flawed, of course. I am used to much better performance out of the AI than I saw in this battle.
The Brutii first started out with a liberal pelting of my Hoplites with their Velites. So far, so good. They killed a few of my Spartans, but not many at all. Meanwhile my Cretans are picking them off like over-ripened berries on a heavily laden bush!
As the Velites provided a covering fire, the Brutii maneuvered their Legionary Cav around the side of my Octagon. This is when I turned the General Cav (not actually the general) to face them.
The Brutii lined the Urban Cohorts up facing the front of the Octagon while the Velites were still tossing pointy sticks at me. Still, so far, so good.
Then, the strangest thing happened. The Brutii sent 2 units of Urban Cohorts around the back of the Octagon where my General Unit (Spartans) was located. Then they just stood around for a while.
They finally lobbed some Pila at my General Unit of Spartans, then started trotting around back and forth in front of them as if they were tyring to find a way to flank. They could not find such a way, of course.
One of the Cohorts finally lined up face to face with my General Spartans, then lobbed some more Pila and killed a few more of my men. Then, they attacked head-on.
They made absolutely 0 kills in this manner. This unit just kept attacking until it routed.
The other UC unit that was in the rear then lined up, lobbed some Pilas, and charged the spears. They died.
The whole time, I am wondering "WTF, mate. Why the heck don't they just charge all of their cav and several of their units at one of the corners?"
And so the Legionary Cav sat there and watched their fellow soldiers become fertilizer.
All the while my Cretans are firing at these units, though very unsuccessfully.
After they sent 3 of their Urban Cohorts in this way, my Cretans had decimated 2 of the 3 remaining units of UC that were just - sitting there.
Then, out of nowhere, the Brutii Heavy General just charged the Octagon with some Velites in support. Wow. That was dumb.
Their General routed and later rallied.
One thing I noticed that was kind of silly, is that my Cretans were shooting the Spartans in the back of the head trying to hit the last remaining UC unit.
The final unit of UC charged the spears, and of course they subsequently formed another nice pile of green-clad bodies in front of my spears.
Then, I expected the cavalry charge.
It never came.
They just sat there while my Cretans decimated them. I thought they might charge after the Cretans ran out of ammo - nothing.
Finally, I had to entice them to charge with my general cav, and the moment they reached my cav and spears, they routed.
I wish I was able to make a custom game where I could control both sides. Then I could set the octagon up and I'm sure I could take it fairly quickly with the same setup of Brutii.
Well, back to my campaign. :charge:
I forgot to add...
I think the problem is that the AI is programmed to only flank with cavalry against Hoplites unless they are chasing another unit and they get very close.
I think the AI is also very heavily tilted toward flanking with the Cohorts, hence the aimless running around that they did, apparently trying to find a flank to grab hold of.
The cav were just absolutely petrified the entire time. They didn't budge. The AI simply didn't see an opening, and never tried to attack until I basically forced them. ~:confused:
Coming to the Org is always a good call even (ahem) when you're long overdue. Still, better late than never. There's more Total War yet to come. :grin:Quote:
Originally Posted by bluerepper
Excellent. I use this one all the time. Usually it's with more like 12-13 phalanx units and 4 or 5 archers. Oh, and ideally you want to get on top of one of those nice little round hills.Quote:
Originally Posted by Papewaio
My basic tactic is never fight fair.
I never attack unless I have overwhelming numbers.
When I'm on offense, I always defend. Move your troops to a good spot, let the enemy attack you. (The only exception to this is attacking wooden walls, which is a slaughter when you bring archers.)
A good phalanx or heavy infantry line (12-13 units), a generous amount of archers (4-5 units) and a few horse on defense on a hill and it doesn't take a tactical genius to win.
I think bluerepper's experience will only come in custom battles when you didn't set the opponent to attacker and you to defender...
In campaign battles this never happens since the only time you can use this is on defensive, and this is when the enemy armies charge at you. So they won't just sit and wait. I once had 40 Roman units charging me (20 senate, 20 julii) but to their misfortune I was playing Germania, this was my grand army they were fighting, and my grand army had 13 spear warbands and 7 general/barb cav. So. The results speak for themselves--all 40 units massacred (not a single unit made it off the battlefield, believe it or not) and only 50 dead on my side. Whoohoo. It's vaguely therapeutic to see flags turning white en masse.
Well I definitely set them to attacker and myself to defender. The AI attacked, but the cav just.... sat there.
They got all nice and set up and ready to sweep me off the battlefield, and then just let their cav go to waste.
Then I was all like :charge:
ah... you have a stupider-than-average AI. And that's saying a lot.
Heh, well I wish we could train the AI or something.
It has a hard enough time just holding a phalanx together.
Yeah. I almost feel guilty beating up the AI like that. But, well, war's war. *shrug*
I've already done everything I can to make the AI more flexible and more of a threat, including that battle formation priority thing and modding starting units for them. But, to no avail. They die all the same. The only unit (and I mean the ONLY) unit that has so far caused my strategy problems are the Egyptian general units, because my standard LL anti-HA manoeuvres don't work on them because the LLs don't dare to get close to the chariots so the chariots can hold off my encirclement technique. Yucks.