what happened to "why the hostility"

i moved it

it is in a secure forum where i can read it all
which i dont have time to do today

as far as i can tell from the notifications i received and the couple of posts i read no-one need panic, looks like a little bit of creative rivalry is all

okies
not majorly concerned unless i find death threats in it,
which i wont


Mods,
who "owns" what

actually, because we are making game mods for a product Owned by CA what we make is Freeware and most likely subject to GNU Open Source

no-one can charge money for a third party add-on without the express written and legally authorised permission of CA, Activision, Sega.

What we do have to do is Acknowledge bits and bobs we borrow from other mods,
courtesy is to ask permission or advise author/creator that we like their unit/review panel pics/map so much we are going to make another mod with their work in it

then we put in the credits "such-and-such" was created by so-and-so" for their "whats-its-name" mod for rome/medieval etc.

for example
Samurai Wars mod is built on my Shogun Mod,
I created Shogun Mod, others took the work and expanded it to make Samurai Wars,
in turn i am taking Samurai Wars and expanding it again and am going to call it "Samurai"


if RTR want to borrow bits of EB all the better for EB (guys, they like your work), it is polite for RTR to mention EB in the credits,
if they fail to do so then NOTIFY ME and copies of RTR hosted on sites within my reach will have the read me files edited by me to include credits for EB,
and vice versa,
if EB borrows bits from RTR then one would expect RTR to be mentioned in the credits of EB.

i dont expect to have to add anything to the readme files,

i am sure two hard core groups who are both passionate about doing their bit to improve the communities appreciation of Rome by working on two excellent mods will find some way to share what they learn about the mechanics of the game and will be happy to share their creations,
units, scripts, buildings, maps etc etc
to make BOTH mods that much better


in all honesty you cannot tell me you have never gone and read each others forums to see what they are up to, what have they found about the game system and mechanics that can be utilised to improve your own mod,
have they made any graphics , skins etc that can be utilised to enhance your own mods,

as long as you tell each other,
"hey i like that, thats good, we include that in "xyz" mod too!"
should be no worries


remember you all working to make Rome a better game

cheers,
B.

Thank you for moving it. Khelvan said for some reason that he was unable to lock it, and said that his moderator powers were acting weird...
But yeah, that thread needed to go (and I say that as a member of EB).

I don't think it would have taken you as long to read the thread as it did to post that confused reply.

There has never been an issue with RTR taking anything from EB (how could we? what would we take?).

But when we release RTR 6.0 on Friday, the EB guys are, as always, free to use any of our ideas, implimentations, or media they like.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bouis

I don't think it would have taken you as long to read the thread as it did to post that confused reply.

There has never been an issue with RTR taking anything from EB (how could we? what would we take?).

But when we release RTR 6.0 on Friday, the EB guys are, as always, free to use any of our ideas, implimentations, or media they like.

---

gah! you know how childish you sound? really now even if you are right. Not us they. Same goes for any EBmember answers in that manner. Whats going on with you people?? you forgot what this is about?

A GAME!!!!!

Now better find a way to cooperate and exchange views instead gossiping like girls. Some of you need a walk in the real world i think. Like the guy(Simetrical) who responses to any accusation against him with posts like the Socrates apollogy. I dont care if he s right or wrong. I find rediculus that kind of frustration over a mode for a pc game. Dont you have real problems??? ~:confused: ~:confused:

Now can we have some real threads about interesting stuff?
thank you

bouis, i wouldnt diss barocca. Here we respect our admins.

well, this is comunitcation between real people, so i guess it's just like having a long distance argument about what TV channel is best. :bow:

[QUOTE=Idomeneas]gah! you know how childish you sound? really now even if you are right. Not us they. Same goes for any EBmember answers in that manner. Whats going on with you people?? you forgot what this is about?/QUOTE]

I agree with you Idomeneas, it is just a mod for a computer game...
I think weekly previews are far more interesting than EB-versus-RTR wars..
I like to see Iberia or whatever it will be called by EB!!

Well, for those who are passionate about history, making an historical mod (any mod, not just EB ~:) ) is more than just modding a game, but various serious things, like honoring the past, or trying to educate and inform the present. Looking at it that way, it should be understandable why some people get emotional and worked up about these things.

I can't describe myself as passionate about history (maybe an enthusiast), but it takes a certain degree of seriousness to devote hundreds or even thousands of hours to modding a game. It can be taken too far, like anything else. And I've definitely been guilty of that.

"It's just a game" does not apply. It is like any creative work, such as a book, that someone has spent untold hours on. It may be a work for entertainment, but that doesn't mean it is any less valuable to the people using it as a creative outlet.

Don't get me wrong Khelvan.
I look forward when mod is released by EB and I appreciate the time and effort EB teammembers have put in this mod.
The main reason that i am interested in this mod is because the "Barbarian" factions are completely redone they are not the stereo types that CA created anymore.
This also the main reason why don't look forward to rtr 6.0 because the barbarian factions are almost the same as RTW vanilla.
EB unlike RTR gives the Barb's and the Romans, Greeks etc equal treatment.

I think it is pointless to get In to discussions with people like
bious because he won't change his mind about the recent EBvsRTR, TWC issues.

That is fair, but realize that you might as well say to a painter "don't be passionate about your painting" or to a musician "it's just music." We put a lot of care and emotion into what we have chosen to do, just as they do.

i think bouis missed the last part of that thread,
(the language got a little, ah, shall we say "warm" ~:), and leave it at that)

the thread is also some 60 posts long, and i'll probably just permanently delete the whole thing rather than try to figure out who said what and whether they were baited into a response and just let it drop.

B.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bouis

when we release RTR 6.0 on Friday, the EB guys are, as always, free to use any of our ideas, implimentations, or media they like.

---

:-)
B.

~;) Ah, someone else appreciates that. Hats off to Bouis for his wit, if nothing else.

Dammit, I wanted to read people's responses to my posts. That's what locking is for, so people can read the flames directed at them without being able to continue the war . . .

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Idomeneas

Some of you need a walk in the real world i think. Like the guy(Simetrical) who responses to any accusation against him with posts like the Socrates apollogy.

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Why, thank you! ~D

-Simetrical

Quote:

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Originally Posted by khelvan

"It's just a game" does not apply. It is like any creative work, such as a book, that someone has spent untold hours on. It may be a work for entertainment, but that doesn't mean it is any less valuable to the people using it as a creative outlet.

---

Well you can be as passionate as you want for your creative work, for your mod. I find useless this back and forth of insults open or covered. You wanna be creative? Very good nobody wants to stop you or underestimate you. But focus on your work and creative process without participating in any gossip-games of power discussion prooving that way your superiority. I assure you as a designer i know very well what it means to be passionate about your work. But i try to focus on it and dont care if the world around me is falling apart.

That previous thread was a bait and by participating as voice of EB vs RTR people achieved nothing but more frustration. Let your work speak for you. Thats my moto.

I reminded to everybody that this is a game cause some people in various boards seem to seek the excelence that they dont have in real life. In this boards there are people of various ages and social lives. You could be spending valuable time from your life confronting a 12 year old kid, isnt that hillarious?

Anyway i was impressed by how long it took till that thread was closed-disappeared. I remember far more interesting threads being locked cause as it was judged they were not related to the work of EB or they were going nowhere.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Idomeneas

You could be spending valuable time from your life confronting a 12 year old kid...

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no no no. that's Michael Jackson mate.

I love pissing contests. I don't know about you guys, but I think they are great!

Thanks barocca.

Azi

Hostility shmostility...what is wrong about having some contest ? just a game ? just a game ? watch some football (soccer) matchs... and tell the players "it is just a game"... as mentioned above , people spends months to do a good mod , think about it

Ah yes , I too like to quote from Socrates , it is against the low ??? :book: :duel: :book: :duel: :book: :duel:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by barocca

actually, because we are making game mods for a product Owned by CA what we make is Freeware and most likely subject to GNU Open Source

no-one can charge money for a third party add-on without the express written and legally authorised permission of CA, Activision, Sega.

What we do have to do is Acknowledge bits and bobs we borrow from other mods,
courtesy is to ask permission or advise author/creator that we like their unit/review panel pics/map so much we are going to make another mod with their work in it

---

Can't we license it as we want, as long as we don't charge money for it? GNU Open Source actually allows commercial use as long as you offer the source code. I would believe you can decide for yourself if you're going to allow borrowing from your mod, and it would be a legal isse if someone violated that license. I would also believe that the license would require the user to have bought the game.

Quote:

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if they fail to do so then NOTIFY ME and copies of RTR hosted on sites within my reach will have the read me files edited by me to include credits for EB

---

I want to point out that while mod artists cannot charge any money for their work, it is still copyrighted. You cannot just take skins or other graphics from another mod and put them into your mod without their approval. And because of that I find your solution, barocca, a bit too forgiving. Artists put alot of blood and tears while researching and drawing. And IMO if people have the nerve to steal the work of others then there should be other consequences then just editing the readme.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by caesar44

Hostility shmostility...what is wrong about having some contest ? just a game ? just a game ? watch some football (soccer) matchs... and tell the players "it is just a game"... as mentioned above , people spends months to do a good mod , think about it

Ah yes , I too like to quote from Socrates , it is against the low ??? :book: :duel: :book: :duel: :book: :duel:

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what Socrates has to do with that? it was a rather sarcastic comment about big apology-like posts. Where did you saw a quote from Socrates in any of the posts here? And no its not against the LAW if offcourse you know how to tell the diffrence what is of Socrates. Iknow people spend months i never said that they shouldnt its a hobby anyway but having backstabbings abusive comments and gossips over games of power withing internet boards i find it rediculus. Now is anything else i can explain to you?...

And yes its just a game. A good one. But a game.. and it means to have good time not getting your complexes out.

I've got to say that it was about time that thing was shut down. It was getting the usually quiet and nice residents around here angry at each other. Only problem i have with it being gone is that my marvellous post about how European products make toast bleed several different colours is gone...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Idomeneas

what Socrates has to do with that? it was a rather sarcastic comment about big apology-like posts. Where did you saw a quote from Socrates in any of the posts here? And no its not against the LAW if offcourse you know how to tell the diffrence what is of Socrates. Iknow people spend months i never said that they shouldnt its a hobby anyway but having backstabbings abusive comments and gossips over games of power withing internet boards i find it rediculus. Now is anything else i can explain to you?...

And yes its just a game. A good one. But a game.. and it means to have good time not getting your complexes out.

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Woooooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwwww !!!!!
Spoken like a true fighter !!!! please tell us about Socrates !!! explain ? yes , explain what on Earth got in to you ?

What an irony....you are attacking "hostility" with such hostility , man , read some Socrates before posting , such anger... ~D ~D ~D

It had to be closed anyway. After all, arguing on the internet is like



poor taste joke deleted
B.

~:eek: thats a pretty offensive joke for an innofensive little internet thread

maybe this thread will get moved too!

then barocca will make a thread, what happened to "what happened to". :laugh2:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Big_John

maybe this thread will get moved too!

then barocca will make a thread, what happened to "what happened to". :laugh2:

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hmm...tempting...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mikeus Caesar

I've got to say that it was about time that thing was shut down. It was getting the usually quiet and nice residents around here angry at each other. Only problem i have with it being gone is that my marvellous post about how European products make toast bleed several different colours is gone...

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and now it's back

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mikeus Caesar

when we finally get things done over here in Europe, they work perfectly, are capable of curing world poverty and make your toast a perfect golden brown and have it bleed in several different colours when you cut it.
When Americans make things, they cause world poverty, fall apart within a day of buying it and make you bleed in several different colours because you keep cutting your fingers on the sharp edges which make your finger septic.

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B.

On the status of mod work in copyrights: it is most definitely not under the GFDL. It is, by and large, derivative work of Activision/CA-owned copyrights.* Therefore, essentially, both Activision/CA and the actual author must agree to allow it to be distributed. Activision/CA has consented, implicitly or explicitly, for derivative works of its content (other than the hardcode) to be distributed freely, although it reserves the right to revoke this blanket permission in at least specific cases. However, the work still cannot be legally distributed without the actual author's permission, attribution or no, not even by Activision/CA. It would be illegal for a site to host any mod containing work used without authorization.

But then there's the second issue, that of using research. Outside of patent law, research is not protected as intellectual property. If EB's historians research a unit and then PROMETHEUS creates it to their specifications, the copyright (derivative or otherwise) belongs to PROMETHEUS. However, it can probably be considered that EB has the right to distribute the work as well; Legionario does not, I believe, have any legal right to bar EB from distributing his work in their mod. In fact, I believe many if not all contributors to EB implicitly give the exclusive right to distribute their work to EB, based on their clear understanding of an EB vote to that effect.

On the last two points, however, I'm not certain—I don't know whether the agreements EB has its recruits make are sufficient to be legally binding.

*Some work done for RTW, in all probability, does not qualify as derivative work. If you make your all models and from scratch, then that would doubtless not count as derivative, and Activision/CA would have no right to inhibit the use of that work in any context. All modifications to existing CA work would, to my knowledge, be derivative. This is all tangential to the main point, however, which is that the modder has the right to his work—in either case the work's creator can regulate its distribution as he chooses.

I'm aware of no example of someone who doesn't want their current or prior work to be included in EB that is either currently in it or will remain in it. An example of Legionario not wanting his work to be included might seem to indicate that this was happening when it is not the case as far as I know.

If someone doesn't want their work in, then they probably didn't do it properly anyway... ~;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Teleklos Archelaou

I'm aware of no example of someone who doesn't want their current or prior work to be included in EB that is either currently in it or will remain in it. An example of Legionario not wanting his work to be included might seem to indicate that this was happening when it is not the case as far as I know.

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I do recall he once made some sneering remark about EB using his work (when it wasn't). I don't know if he actually doesn't want EB to use his work, but it was hypothetical anyway.

-Simetrical

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Simetrical

I do recall he once made some sneering remark about EB using his work (when it wasn't). I don't know if he actually doesn't want EB to use his work, but it was hypothetical anyway.

-Simetrical

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I think khelvan replied very quickly that his work was not included in EB and had been replaced. Or something to that effect.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Simetrical

I do recall he once made some sneering remark about EB using his work (when it wasn't). I don't know if he actually doesn't want EB to use his work, but it was hypothetical anyway.

-Simetrical

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He did make that remark, about a completely different unit that had nothing to do with the Laech he was making for us. Based on several different reasons, we did not include his work in any previews, and will not be including it in the final version.