Canada, Denmark at odds over Arctic island

CNN - link

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Canada, Denmark at odds over Arctic island

Monday, July 25, 2005 Posted: 1236 GMT (2036 HKT)

COPENHAGEN, Denmark (AP) -- Denmark said Monday that it will send a letter of protest to Canada over a government minister's visit to a wind-swept Arctic island off northwestern Greenland that is claimed by both countries.

Canadian Defense Minister Bill Graham set foot on the 1.3-square-kilometer (1/2-square-mile) Hans Island on Friday, saying his country has always regarded it as Canadian territory.

Denmark also claims the island, roughly 1,100 kilometers (682 miles) south of the North Pole.

"We will hand over a note to Canada in which we will express our viewpoint," said Foreign Ministry spokesman Peter Taksoe-Jensen. "Hans Island is our island."

Officials at the Canadian Embassy in Copenhagen declined to comment.

In 1973, Canada and Denmark drew a border down the inhospitable Nares Strait halfway between Greenland, a semiautonomous Danish territory, and Canada's Ellesmere Island.

But the countries decided that sovereignty over Hans Island and others in the Arctic region would be determined later.

Denmark and Canada maintain good relations despite occasional spats over the island, which can be reached only by boat during mild summers when the ice around it melts.

In 1984, Tom Hoeyem, who was Denmark's minister for Greenland affairs, caused a stir when he raised a Danish flag on the island, buried a bottle of brandy at the base of the flag pole and left a note saying "Welcome to the Danish island."

Danish navy ships visited in the island in 2002 and 2003.

Canadian soldiers came to Hans Island before Graham's visit and raised a Canadian flag.

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So war it is then? ~D :laugh:

PS. Is it ok with the publisher of the article if I reposted in quotations the article here?

I don't know. I am hoping Ser Clegane can tell me.

It's time for Canada to mobilize!

And let's not forget the Canadian Rangers either. Denmark has insulted our honour for the last time! :charge:

Where is this place anyway?

Cat Fight!!

Is a 1/2-square-mile island really that important that people would actually spend the energy getting angry about it? I mean what in gods name could actually be on this thing that people would even wanna claim. Seems like they would wanna get rid of the little thing.

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Originally Posted by ColdKnight

Is a 1/2-square-mile island really that important that people would actually spend the energy getting angry about it?

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It's our 1/2-square-mile island and if it's not important they can just hand it over and stop burying brandy on it!

Well, considering their size as a country and our size as a military force, it's a kitten fight. Cute, but not so entertaining.

And to answer your question ColdKnight, yes IT IS IMPORTANT. If we allow other countries to take our territory then that's a breach on our sovereignty, and a sign of weakness.

BTW, this place is inbetween Ellesmere Island and Greenland.

Oh, So its kinda like a naval port thing type important? Also about the image part, I really don't think anyone would view either country as weak over loosing this island. Now if canada lost newfoundland, or denmark lost greenland, that might be different. But who knows, their are some strange people out there.

I say the two countries selected their greatest warriors and have them fight to the death to see who controls it.

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And to answer your question ColdKnight, yes IT IS IMPORTANT. If we allow other countries to take our territory then that's a breach on our sovereignty, and a sign of weakness.

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Youre Canada for Christ sakes! Its not like you've got a reputation to uphold.. :laugh4:

How about a compromise. One side gets the island, the other gets some beer.

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Originally Posted by PanzerJager

Youre Canada for Christ sakes! Its not like you've got a reputation to uphold.. :laugh4:

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Canada's recent history may be pathetic but we do (or rather our fathers do) have a reputation to uphold.

However this tiny little island is not my idea of a Casus Belli, unless the Danes attempt to take it by force (they never would). More likely we will refer it to an international court to decide.

If our brothers ask, we will join the hærtokt, fight skrælingene and reclaim our Vinland.

gentleman....let´s get ready to ruuuuuuuuuummble!!! ~D


this reminds me of the one between spain and morocco last year about that tiny island in the gibraltar straight......it´s a tiny piece of rock....who cares?

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Originally Posted by Ronin

gentleman....let´s get ready to ruuuuuuuuuummble!!! ~D


this reminds me of the one between spain and morocco last year about that tiny island in the gibraltar straight......it´s a tiny piece of rock....who cares?

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Diplomats care because it's an opportunity for them to show their usefulness. Let's sit & enjoy the show

Britain would naturally have to be on Canada's side in this as a fellow Commonwealth nation and for all the assistance Canada has given to Britian in past wars.

Hmm...what kind of life force lives on the island, anyway? Are there even humans there? Or just some seals, or even mosses...or...just blocks of lifeless ice?

[I was planning to rally the support of Greenpeace to the country that gives the better offer on protecting life (or, if there is none, ice) with the best environmental law codes they can write]

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Originally Posted by Sigurd Fafnesbane

If our brothers ask, we will join the hærtokt, fight skrælingene and reclaim our Vinland.

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I'm sure that Denmark will twist this one for our better, a snatch that little island away from the big ugly doggy. The kitten shail prevail - and Im pleased that you would join our hærtogt my viking brother ~:)

https://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y2...ussen/hans.jpg

Seems Canada cant take a hint ~D

We Danes are of course just protecting Greenland's natural rights for the island while Canada's evil government tries to use the island to cover up for their domestic problems ~;)


CBR

Of course the Canadians want the island. The Danes have been burying brandy on it! ~:cheers:

Woohoo, WW3 over a little, ice-locked, rocky island. Which will vanish under-water when all the nukes melt the polar ice caps anyway. Got to love politicians.

Although I probably have a stronger sense of pride (in a very loose sense) for the Anglosphere than for America alone, I say we flip the script on this one and back Denmark.


Fight! Fight! Fight! *flicks the room's light switch while chanting*

Is it ok with the publisher of the article if I reposted in quotations the article here?

I don't know. I am hoping Ser Clegane can tell me. -BP

Here's the deal: there is this claiment at the bottom of the article:
Copyright 2005 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

Under 'fair use' policy, you may quote the material IF you also give attribution, for example, start your post with:

"This is an AP article I found at CNN.com (link)"
quote: blah, blah, blah, blah enquote.

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Originally Posted by Ronin

gentleman....let´s get ready to ruuuuuuuuuummble!!! ~D


this reminds me of the one between spain and morocco last year about that tiny island in the gibraltar straight......it´s a tiny piece of rock....who cares?

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It reminds me of Gibralter itself.....its a british colony, british people live there and it recognzed QEII as the head of state, but its Spanish of course ~D
joking

ever been to Gibraltar?
It's a dump.
If it weren't for its strategic position (and the British citizens there who want it to remain British) I'd demand that it were returned to Spain.

Oh yeah, Go Denmark!

i always thought it looked quite nice....like an english village with a spanish climate

I remember a lot of concrete nastiness.
It's the joys of cramming 30,000 people, a military base and a town onto a small bit of land.

It's not like any English village I've been to.

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Originally Posted by AntiochusIII

Hmm...what kind of life force lives on the island, anyway? Are there even humans there? Or just some seals, or even mosses...or...just blocks of lifeless ice?

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Well even worse. It's not only small, lifeless, cold, strategically useless, brandyless ~;) , but also if someone would be living there, it would be considered the second most northern esttelment on the planet. The first being the post of Alert on Ellesmere island.

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Originally Posted by CBR

Seems Canada cant take a hint

We Danes are of course just protecting Greenland's natural rights for the island while Canada's evil government tries to use the island to cover up for their domestic problems

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Canada's Liberal government is evil now? We saved your behinds in WWII. :book2:

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I remember a lot of concrete nastiness.

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RAF Brize Norton, and the surorunding town of Carterton, everything except the 30,00 people ~:cheers:

good one

~:cheers:

Lets invade Denmark !

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/bo...cp_8139247.jpg
Canadian Forces troops raise the Maple Leaf on Hans Island on July 13, 2005. (CP Photo/DND/Cpl David McCord)

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Originally Posted by UglyandHasty

Lets invade Denmark !

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/bo...cp_8139247.jpg
Canadian Forces troops raise the Maple Leaf on Hans Island on July 13, 2005. (CP Photo/DND/Cpl David McCord)

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Seems you just did that ~D


CBR

Well, I bet Canada is beginning to regret it's decision to side with France on the Iraq issue now. Denmark, a true friend, can expect our support and loyalty for sending their 50 soldiers to Baghdad and being a part of the 'coalition of the willing'. Canada, by working to thwart our efforts, has shown itself to be a member of the 'coalition of the royally screwed' mabye even the Axis of Pretty Darned Bad. We're gonna head North lookin for evildoers, and when we find 'em, we're gonna smoke 'em out, we're gonna get 'em on the run, and we're gonna 'get em.... don't mess with Texas!!! :charge:

(This was done for fun, y'all. Not a hint of truth in American policy or the feelings of the author is implied). ~:cheers:

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Originally Posted by UglyandHasty

Lets invade Denmark !

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/bo...cp_8139247.jpg
Canadian Forces troops raise the Maple Leaf on Hans Island on July 13, 2005. (CP Photo/DND/Cpl David McCord)

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Now! Be nice!
Let the Danes have their death threat before you rush in to invade with your mounties!!

I would like to think Canada's history of generosity and sacrifice to the people of that region of Europe would convince them that we are not the sort of people to make specious and unrightful claims.

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Originally Posted by ian_of_smeg16

Now! Be nice!
Let the Danes have their death threat before you rush in to invade with your mounties!!

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oH we'll be nice... We'll just send Celine Dion as vanguard ~:cheers:

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Originally Posted by Don Corleone

Well, I bet Canada is beginning to regret it's decision to side with France on the Iraq issue now. Denmark, a true friend, can expect our support and loyalty for sending their 50 soldiers to Baghdad and being a part of the 'coalition of the willing'. Canada, by working to thwart our efforts, has shown itself to be a member of the 'coalition of the royally screwed' mabye even the Axis of Pretty Darned Bad. We're gonna head North lookin for evildoers, and when we find 'em, we're gonna smoke 'em out, we're gonna get 'em on the run, and we're gonna 'get em.... don't mess with Texas!!! :charge:

(This was done for fun, y'all. Not a hint of truth in American policy or the feelings of the author is implied). ~:cheers:

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I don't understand. Are you trying to be funny? Everyone knows that war was faought over war, well, everyone except the republicans.

"There was no connection between 9/11 and Saddam Hussein" - George W Bush

Not to add there were no WMD's in Iraq. Why would we want to assist your government while they personally get rich off of the oil and war contracts?

PS. I think we should officially start a 'coalition of the unwilling' just to annoy the US.

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Originally Posted by UglyandHasty

oH we'll be nice... We'll just send Celine Dion as vanguard ~:cheers:

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OMG. That must be some convention that outlaws dirty tricks like that??

But maybe thats why Canadian and Danish soldiers are, what appears to be, stockpiling hard liquor on the island, as thats the only antidote I know of ~:cheers:


CBR

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Originally Posted by Byzantine Prince

I don't understand. Are you trying to be funny? Everyone knows that war was faought over war, well, everyone except the republicans.

"There was no connection between 9/11 and Saddam Hussein" - George W Bush

Not to add there were no WMD's in Iraq. Why would we want to assist your government while they personally get rich off of the oil and war contracts?

PS. I think we should officially start a 'coalition of the unwilling' just to annoy the US.

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Actually, yes, I was trying to be funny, and what you said made no sense. The war was fought over war???? What does that mean?

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Originally Posted by UglyandHasty

oH we'll be nice... We'll just send Celine Dion as vanguard ~:cheers:

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:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
Oh Dear God NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooooo.......
Seriously, you wouldn't be that cruel?

Hey! I like Celine Dion. (I wonder if I should admit that I sing celine Dion songs in the shower...)

Anyway, the bloody island is bloody well ours and we're bloody well willing to send a dozen bloody drunk Newfies up there to give Denmark an "I told you so!"

Denmark ain't got no one to got toe to toe with a couple of liquored up St-John's longshoremen. :knight:

Hmmm... drunken Newfies versus drunken Danes... battling it out in a street brawl and the winner gets a frozen hunk of rock & ice in the far reaches of the North Atlantic that's only accessible in particularly warm winters.... Can you say 'new reality series....' ~:cheers:

wow you said bloody alot, and i thought you canadians werent british, hey this could be your version of the falklands.....hehe with the danes as the argentines of course....

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.... Can you say 'new reality series....'

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lol, Artic Survivor......can the contestants win this glamerous, glorified iceberg?

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(I wonder if I should admit that I sing celine Dion songs in the shower...)

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Your secret has been revealed, you sing Celine Dion's music and wear womans clothes.

So what kind of wood is your lumberjackin ass taking care

Must get lonely and boring out in the middle of a forest

The drinking contest sound like a good and civilized idea to solve that "problem"

~:cheers:

ps. you dont stand a chance...

Would this very tiny piece of rock have any significance because of fishing or airspace conventions?

I think Celine Dion should be sent to permanently inhabit the island. No civilized nation would attack a civilian minding her own business on a lonely rock... That would of course be followed by a vote for "self determinination" of the rock's inhabitants. Problem resolved.

I say the Danes should dig in and let the Canucks try and take it! :laugh4:

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Originally Posted by UglyandHasty

The drinking contest sound like a good and civilized idea to solve that "problem"

~:cheers:

ps. you dont stand a chance...

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oh - really? Who was it that stored brandy on the island? the danes - it's called mobilization, preparing for the drinking contest! You challenge us on our strongest ground - drinking. We we weren't bloody VIKINGS for nothing, fighting... we cant anymore, but we can drink with tenfold energy and zeal!

Let the challenge begin ~:cheers:

SKÅL!

FISHING RIGHTS for starters for a 100km or halfway between two nations.

And any mineral and oil rights in the surrounding water.

As for Canadian military history they were very impressive in WWII.

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Originally Posted by Papewaio

FISHING RIGHTS for starters for a 100km or halfway between two nations.

And any mineral and oil rights in the surrounding water.

As for Canadian military history they were very impressive in WWII.

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Yes, that is what I was thinking with regards to fishing rights, although I thought the boundary was much narrower. Is much fishing done around the island during the thaw or is that stretch of water largely "unusable" to the fishing industry?

Don't think the mineral rights would be very useful since the area is almost entirely submerged, not sure about oil.

I lost a couple of distant relatives in the RCAF in WWII, don't know the details. The Canucks pulled out a can of whupass in the War of 1812--very embarassing to the original 1812 "warhawks" who considered Canada a walkover. (It was an example of failing to prepare for war before actually engaging in one.) The dispute actually arose out of Britain's use of "impressment" of U.S. citizens on the high seas as memory serves.

http://www.canadafreepress.com/2005/rubin072705.htm

The tone in this link seem a bit strong but anyway:

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Why is this important?

Because between the polar icecaps melting at a prodigious rate and the possibility of significant oil deposits in the seabed, at a time when oil deposits are running out, Hans Island becomes a critical tool for the economic exploitation of the arctic. With the polar icecaps melting, the North West Passage to Asia, through the Canadian Arctic, may be a financially viable transportation route at long last. If the Danish claim Hans Island, they would not only have the right to use the Canadian straits as they pleased, but also, it would encourage other nations to use the Northwest Passage, firmly in Canadian territory, as international waters. Also, if oil were found in the area, the Danish would have exclusive control over it.

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CBR

I have another great idea. We select myself and 8 other judges from around the world (so we have an odd number). You begin by giving us all copious amounts of Canadian Rye Whiskey and Danish Vodka. You then feed us. Finally, the competition begins.... 10 women, 5 from Canada, 5 from Denmark get 2 minutes apiece to convince us, in any way they can, on why the Island should belong to them. Contestants should be cute, styled and most importantly, curvaceous. We're looking for new waitresses for the Conservative Club, you understand...

In order to use my plan, I have 2 conditions...

1) Gawain and PanzerJaeger get to be my 'founders choice' judges, the other 6 will be decided 3 apiece by Denmark & Canada.

2) Not a word of this ever gets to my wife, no matter how many peace prizes I might win.

It would take a lot to populate anywhere near Hans Island. If it did it would beconsidered the second most northern settlement in the world. And the first is not like it get's many visits. It would very hard and maybe in the very distant future that any real exploitation of the land and sea around Hans island will begin. But it is ours, we can't let other countries get the northern Archipelago and it's important waterways between Europe and Asia. And if we have to we will show our muscles to those Danes. Our mounties along can take care of this one. ~D

But, the important thing for Canadians to remember is that Hans Island is our tiny, blasted and forsaken island. And it must stay that way, if we expect any of our international claims of sovereignty over the, now only allegedly, Canadian north to be recognized.

It is a symbol of our fight against imperialism.

due to a mapping anomaly

One little mistake on a map and those thieving Danes are trying to steal our country from underneath us!

However, because no line was drawn from point 122 to point 123, a no man’s land with a distance of 875 meters was formed: Hans Island falls smack dab in the middle.

Probably some drunken Dane, who couldn't draw straight! You heard them boasting how they drink!

On an idealistic level, Hans Island represents Canada’s ability to successfully defend, both politically and militarily, its own claimed territory. Without this ability, its sovereign territory is not worthy of the name.

They would take away our very right to exist as a nation!

The Danish had landed on the island time and time again; since 1988, they have planted and replaced the Danish flag four times on its rocky surface. Once, they cheekily left a bottle of brandy.

Repeatedly we have had our sovereign territory violated, again and again! How much are we expected to endure? I ask you, who but Canadians would put up with such insults; "If you prick us do we not bleed?... And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge?"

Furthermore, Canada’s claim over the north is challenged by both the United States and Russia. While Russia claims sovereignty over parts of the Canadian continental arctic shelf, the United States maintains that the Northwest Passage, which cuts through the middle of Canada’s northern arctic territories, is international waters.
If Canada loses the battle over Hans Island, it may appear weak, and other nations may try to press their advantage and claim vulnerable Canadian territory.

If we lose the war against Danish aggression we leave Canada open to attack from a great coalition of enemies. Remember the words of that great Canadian Benjamin Franklin "Gentlemen, we must hang together in this, otherwise we will surely all hang separately!"

On July 20, Defence Minister Bill Graham landed on the island, provoking squeals of outrage from the Danish over an illegal ‘occupation’: of Canada’s own territory. On July 25, they declared their intention to issue a strongly worded letter of protest. This matter is not a matter for negotiation, diplomacy or mediation.

Oh, listen to the little Danes squeal. They conduct an illegal ‘occupation’ of Canadian territory and expect mercy! No negotiation, No diplomacy and no mediation.

And should the Danish imperialism escalate, as withered as Canada’s once strong military arm may be, it is not so weak that it cannot turn back the Viking raiders from our shores. However barren and northerly they may be.

You heard it! imperialism Do they expect that every Canadian show bow down to them?
To denmark I say; Our patience grows thin. Remember what we did to the Harp Seals!

https://img283.imageshack.us/img283/...270w7fq.th.jpg

Let us pray for god is on our side.

"O Lord our God, help us tear their soldiers to bloody shreds with our shells; help us to cover their smiling fields with the pale forms of their patriot dead; help us to drown the thunder of the guns with the shrieks of their wounded, writhing in pain; help us to lay waste their humble homes with a hurricane of fire; help us to wring the hearts of their unoffending widows with unavailing grief; help us to turn them out roofless with their little children to wander unfriended in the wastes of their desolated land in rags and hunger and thirst, sports of the sun flames in summer and the icy winds of winter, broken in spirit, worn with travail, imploring thee for the refuge of the grave and denied it--

For our sakes who adore Thee, Lord, blast their hopes, blight their lives, protract their bitter pilgrimage, make heavy their steps, water their way with their tears, strain the white snow with the blood of their wounded feet!

We ask it, in the spirit of love, of Him Who is the Source of Love, and Who is the ever-faithful refuge and friend of all that are sore beset and seek His aid with humble and contrite hearts. Amen."

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"O Lord our God, help us tear their soldiers to bloody shreds with our shells; help us to cover their smiling fields with the pale forms of their patriot dead; help us to drown the thunder of the guns with the shrieks of their wounded, writhing in pain; help us to lay waste their humble homes with a hurricane of fire; help us to wring the hearts of their unoffending widows with unavailing grief; help us to turn them out roofless with their little children to wander unfriended in the wastes of their desolated land in rags and hunger and thirst, sports of the sun flames in summer and the icy winds of winter, broken in spirit, worn with travail, imploring thee for the refuge of the grave and denied it--

For our sakes who adore Thee, Lord, blast their hopes, blight their lives, protract their bitter pilgrimage, make heavy their steps, water their way with their tears, strain the white snow with the blood of their wounded feet!

We ask it, in the spirit of love, of Him Who is the Source of Love, and Who is the ever-faithful refuge and friend of all that are sore beset and seek His aid with humble and contrite hearts. Amen."

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BRILLIANT!! Funniest thing I've read in days.

If anyone can find a decent map of the area, please post it. I know where the island is supposed to be, but can't get a detailed map of the Kennedy Channel. I found one velocity map that appears to show Franklin Island, but Hans Island is a little above the map edge.

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Originally Posted by discovery1

BRILLIANT!! Funniest thing I've read in days.

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I only wish I could claim credit for it!

The War Prayer
by Mark Twain

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Originally Posted by Red Harvest

If anyone can find a decent map of the area, please post it. I know where the island is supposed to be, but can't get a detailed map of the Kennedy Channel. I found one velocity map that appears to show Franklin Island, but Hans Island is a little above the map edge.

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http://media.canada.com/canwest/29/20040325main.jpg

When I first read the tagline, I thought CNN had found the Backroom:

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/americ...eut/index.html

Funny article. I loved this bit:

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"Notwithstanding the disputed area, the Canadian Foreign Affairs Ministry is allowing its cafeteria to sell Danish pastries as a goodwill gesture towards the Danish government and people," ministry spokesman Reynald Doiron said.

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This is what's wrong with you crazy canuks!!! You should be organizing a boycott of Denmark, and changing the official name of Danish to 'Freedom Pastry'. You have no clue on how to be small and petty, but if you want our help, just say the word and we'll come up with some more ideas for ya....

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Originally Posted by Ironside

http://media.canada.com/canwest/29/20040325main.jpg

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Thanks, I'm still looking for something a bit tighter in. The closest I came was this: Kennedy Channel Map I think this shows Franklin Island (the larger one) and Crozier Island. Looking at Hans Island coordinates ( 80° 49′ 0″ N 66° 28′ 0″ W ) it would be just off the map and smack in the middle of the channel.

AHA! Found a map, try MSN Map

Yep, that is going to be tricky to sort out.

This one is good, satellite image with 15 meter resolution

Hans in middle, Franklin below, surrounded by breaking ice flow

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Originally Posted by Sigurd Fafnesbane

If our brothers ask, we will join the hærtokt, fight skrælingene and reclaim our Vinland.

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That sounds like a good plan.I think your fellow vikings from Sweden should join too the Attack against those ignorant Canucks. :knight: We Finns can take care of your lands in Scandinavia while you are having drinking contest with Canadians on that rock.Dont worry at all. ~:grouphug: We take gooood care of yor lands and women while you are away.(Starts mobilizing). ~D

I know this topic is old, by backroom standards, but this Tillsonburg guy's op ed/rant piece just cracks me up
http://www.tillsonburgnews.com/story.php?id=177013

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as a kind of calling card, left behind a bottle of Aquavit which we stock on the same shelf between Old Spice and Skin Bracer

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Let me be very clear when I warn you that with the amount of moving parts falling off our fighter planes and jet helicopters, we could take out a serious chunk of your civilized population

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~D

I love this part:

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Originally Posted by William Thomas

Remember when Canadians arrived in the desert of Afghanistan wearing Christmas green camouflage? Yeah, well, when our troops clash on Hans Island, we'll be the ones wearing Toronto Maple Leaf uniforms and bow ties that light up in the dark. We hate being overlooked, even in war.

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Because it's actually true! Our troops in Afghanistan do actually wear pine green camouflage!

Our military is so badly maintained(not undefunded) that we are not even wearing proper clothes to cover our arses. ~:eek: