disapointed with rtr, you are my last hope

rtr is nothing special, awful skins, the AoR is ..... the battles last the same of vanilla, a gallic swordsmen unit of 80 ROUTED with 65 guys still alive.... the custom battles units with docens of units available make the teams having no weakneses (imagine the online battles) no new animations for phlanx specially, no plahanx can stop even the weakest elepaht, and of course, no AI (darthmod) formation improvements, the new music is boooring...

BI seems to be a hell of arcade but has a patch and some new formations or little improvements

now, waiting EB specially after seen my country's iberian warriors i cant wait, and i still cant wait to your decisions of mod BI. and cant wait for BI to patch rtr and omg, i cant wait BI AND EB + patch

*do you hope the patch will improve AI and the game so much? it really needs it ~D

is it true that CA is releasing 1.3 patch appart from BI? sooner o later?

i think rtr 6.0 is pretty damn fun. They have improved a lot of things. I just miss playing as the britons ;(

RTR 6.0 is out? Ho hum. ~:handball:

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Originally Posted by infierno

a gallic swordsmen unit of 80 ROUTED with 65 guys still alive

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Hell of a lot more historical than whole armies fighting to the death. To my knowledge.

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Originally Posted by infierno

the new music is boooring

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Then put the old back in. It can't be that hard.

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Originally Posted by Cube

The real difference between RTR and EB is the focus. RTR has more of a balanced focus, whereas EB has more of a focus on Barbarians.

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I wouldn't be too sure of that. Look at some of the pretty non-barbarian previews.

Nothing good can come of this thread. ~:eek:

Alexander, you're pretty right as well as being pretty good. ~:)
We've also had complaints that we're too focused on the Hellenistic factions, so I guess we must be doing something right. ~;)

RTR 6.0 is damn good my friend. It's the best thing we got and a far cry from Vanilla.

The AOR is amazing. IT's the best feature i think.

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The real difference between RTR and EB is the focus. RTR has more of a balanced focus, whereas EB has more of a focus on Barbarians.

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Over 700 posts and your talking like a 1 poster here. EB has said numerous times that they are re-working every single faction. The previews are testamony. Take a look, all the faction have been tossed out the window and rebuilt.


Ok, sure, EB is going to be the best MOD. But RTR is a great MOD. I think many people thought it would be a different game altogether. I know I did, I read the home page news posting that said "no stone is left unturned". That is a bit far fetched, but the game is well designed.

The AI is smarter, calvary always goes for the flanks and suicide units are gone.

My only problem is the stupid animation for infantry while running.

Whoohoo, an EB convert. I haven't played RTR yet, there's something awful with the registry on my comp so i can't get it to work. But EB is definitely something you should try, that's for sure.

I actually enjoyed myself rather well with RTR. The map is shite compared to EBs and Units aren't as beautiful, but the AoR is brilliant. These guys are setting the bar rather high, I wonder how much higher EB will set it?

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Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube

The real difference between RTR and EB is the focus. RTR has more of a balanced focus, whereas EB has more of a focus on Barbarians.

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Actually EB has a very balnced focus, where as RTR seems to ingore the barbs almost as much as vanilla.

[QUOTE=Gelatinous Cube]Eb There's way too many Barbarian Factions for my tastes; I personally think you could get by with 2 or 3.



Agreed .

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Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube

Ignore? Nah, they get just the right amount of attention; as proper rebels, except for the few that actual did stuff important during the time period of 280 BC to 1 AD.

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In that case, what did the Greek city-states do besides get conquered? ~;)

Well I think EB does it just right- historically! Their 'barbarians' are very aesthetically pleasing and will be fun to play with- they're also well researched and depicted correctly.

First off barbs have to be barbs.. It is hardcoded, plus the "barbarian" of the day werent as useless as you think. Their descedents managed to become the most influential force in modern time. Gaul was much more powerful at the time than the scatered city states. Infact i would like it if there were more barbs. A split between the aedui and averni would be nice and so woul illyria.

Eb is giving the barbs exactly what they deserve. If i made a ww2 mod and made sure to represent america would i be america centered?

Dont critize Eb for making the Barbarians historically accurate.

all im saying is your critizing a historically accurate mod for being historicall accurate.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube

It was the Successor States that shaped the world until they got conquered by the romans.

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Aye, the Macedonian successor states, but what about those piddling little city-states?

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Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube

The real difference between RTR and EB is the focus. RTR has more of a balanced focus, whereas EB has more of a focus on Barbarians.

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BALANCED!? They focus to the some factions (Successors, rome) and don't give a shit to the another (Germanics, gauls...) and you say they have balanced focus.
Look at the EB prewiews, their every faction is historical. In RTR there is some historical factions, but many anhistorical too.
So which one has more balanced focus?

I still think the AoR is a neat feature!

The skins in RTR are beautiful, especially in the latest release and there is simply nothing wrong with them imo

well. I actually like RTR. just not in custom-battles (every faction can train every AoR unit->elephants, phalanxes, etc) so never mind online play.
the units are nice, really. but i'm still disapointed they had no Falcata's on the unit: falacata men . i'm just a sucker for those things. Also the germanians arent very nice. "framea men" as an example...Noble spearmen..another nice unit. and they have Siege:Total War in Greece
it's really a nice mod and i'm playing it until EB comes, but some things annoy me a bit.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube

No, I'm criticizing it because I don't think it spent the available faction slots in an ideal way.

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Yes, you have the right to criticize.
You seem to be focused on those mediterranian cultures, but perhaps a mod with a smaller map mainly focused on this area fits better for you.

I think EB shall make a better solution about on your points Infernio. They are developing this mod for more than one year that makes them a specialist over RTW dynamics. I believe they make their best in the coding limits of RTW.

In the other hand i don't expect too much core improvement for BI by the CA side. They declared it several times before such as this messages. I've pickep up from two of them in FAQ section:

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Q: What do you think about to do for tightening the tactical deepness of the R: TW BI besides swimmable units and night battles?

A: Many aspects of the AI for battles has been worked on since RTW was published, and we think you'll find it gives you a better game. Then again, the cynics out there would expect us to say that, but short of making this an essay there's not a lot more to say other than it ahs been worked on.

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Q. Will the battle model be :Fast battles, flat grounds, high kill rates, close armies, small map(with red line-Current RTW style) or: Long battles, non-flat grounds, slow kill rates, far armies, bigger map (without red line-old TW series style).
A.The basic battle game won't change that much; this is an expansion, not a re-imagining of RTW.

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wasnt it supposed to make battles last more? the best roman and gaul forces, (units of 80 guys) running with 65 still alive is not a great step forward

other reasons seen in their forums:

roman skins sux, all different colours

this game could be called PHALANX WARS 6.0 (too many phalanx)

heavy cavalry heavy uderpowered, specially the charge

trarri can kill, better than phalanx ,all cavalry

heavy cavalry cant kill even non-speared cheap infantry units

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Originally Posted by infierno

roman skins sux, all different colours

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Actually i like their roman, the feathers could have used a different pattern, but otherwise i think they are fine.

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this game could be called PHALANX WARS 6.0 (too many phalanx)

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Many nations fought in phalanx... You can't ignore that for the sake of gameplay. And nobody forces you to use phalanx, i had good results with army with lots of light inf.

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heavy cavalry heavy uderpowered, specially the charge

trarri can kill, better than phalanx ,all cavalry

heavy cavalry cant kill even non-speared cheap infantry units

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That i don't know, i didn't tested a cavalry charge alone for the moment. My cavalry always routed the ennemy but the moral was the main factor, not their effectiveness. I will check.

those are forums opinions, not all mine :)

anyway, in what BATTLE DIFFICULTY do you play?

my own complains are

music

Mass routing early in battle still occurs...I thought one of the aims of 6.0 was to balance the unit stats better to make this stop? (3 minutes stting up, 3 minutes battle 5 minutes killing routers)

custom battles and internet battles with all the mercenaries make no weaknesses on factions

some skins...........

cavalry underpowered



another forum opinion: You right, now upgrade of city buildings is not necessary lots good mercenaries with beter experiences than country unit aviable in everywhere, all temples give the same efect it is not funy..., Unfortunately after this changes the game lose climate


i repeat you are my last hope

Please try to avoid any comparisons between mods here, especially since none of you (including the closed beta testers) have seen what EB really has to offer yet.

On focus - EB is attempting to give the peoples of the period who had the opportunity to become great their due. This includes those that DID become great (the Romans, for instance) and those that were conquered.

It is up to the player to decide the course of history. Will great nations be destroyed and relegated to near obscurity, as they were in history? Or will they instead make their mark as a lasting civilization?

In this respect, we focus on those nations that attempted to conquer the world, or at least parts of it, and try to make each of them as historically accurate as possible. We do not want to force history to repeat itself (i.e. the same civilizations always win, and others are always shown as bumps in the road) but rather to set the table so that the player may decide the course of history based on initial parameters (and perhaps a few nudges in the first few years).

We're not "focused on barbarians," we give all people equal weight in our research. The Romans and Greeks were not the only civilizations that had power or culture in the period.

They were merely the victors.

what i must say is: EB "SEEMS" to be much more prepared and organized, with a very very pre-organized objetives: what we whant to make? with time and order

rtr is a small mod that has raised with less orders and with non-linked ideas

always with the word "SEEMS" but this is my opinion, after playing 6.0 i pray for a patch 6.5 to fix this if posible

next step is BI with 7.0

our final stop is EB

well. another minor point of critisism is the cavalry. the Hetairoi look great, absolutly terrifiing. but Every unit of cav has teh same charge bonus, thats not right:weight is an issue, and breed of horses...
also, why are there 8 different pikemen. "levie" pikemen, and a stand-up: pezetairoi. but why so freaking many!?! also, the hoplites look exactly like pikemen (length doesnt differ much, neither does shield-size) and some hoplites also have 60 men (normal-settings) in stead of 40. balancing is weird!

Nice mod, Huge step up. But graphic-wise not like EB (what we've seen). and I HATE RTR for keeping the "chosen swordsmen". i havent seen teh building system of EB, nor have i sene teh balancing. but god i hope its better than RTR, i know it can be so.

I agree. RTR is completely unbalanced. Playing as the Parthians you could win the campaign without ever using cavalry (except with generals) because they have so much infantry, even decent phalanxes, open to them. Also, the map extensions are quite poorly designed IMO, especially when compared with MM (map making genius there) or even the vanilla map, which isn't very detailed as it is. Scotland just looks wrong and the eastern extensions are blaaaand. :furious3:

Rome Total Realism isn't even very realistic/accurate either. The Gauls have a province in the middle of bloody Turkey (they must have been confused between Gaul and Gallatia). Epirus, Syracuse and several other independant states are members of the Greek Cities faction (they should have just chosen one greek faction and stuck with it, its just unbelievably inaccurate as it is). Illyria is in the game, a faction with quite poor influence, especially compared to Dacia, which they took out to combine with Thrace.

EDIT: If the information I supplied is in any way wrong, correct me by any means, but at least I won't be making a "realism" mod with incorrect information about history.

How can any one say that RTR, CA, or EB pander to any faction? It's the way it was for the most part. CA is guilty of spending too much time on Rome and nobody else, but CA was banking on the fact that we would playing nothing OTHER than Rome.

As far as EB paying more attention to the Barbarians... Have you seen Backtira? Have you seen Makedonia? Those previews are beautiful. All the previews look great.

EB oringially started off as a Barbarian mod. CA's generic "barbaian calvary, warbad etc.." was to bland and incorrect. It made the barbarians out to be some two-bit culture, where in fact they were quite vibrant!

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Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube

Eb is most definately barbarian-centric. I'm not saying they don't work on civilized factions too, but it's clear that they are giving priority to barbarians. There's way too many Barbarian Factions for my tastes; I personally think you could get by with 2 or 3.

RTR 6.0 is such a vast leap over 5.4.1 that it's not even the same mod. There's a new intro, new skins for every unit, new loading screens, new music, new everything. It's very impressive. I'm not going to get into an EB/RTR pissing contest (I plan on playing both), but anyone who plays RTW owes it to themselves to try this mod.

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Dear Gelatinous Cube ~:)

Do you know that EB has removed one "barbaric" faction for a Hellenic one.
They have replaced Numidia with Bactria.
This action is not very barbaric centric from EB ! ~:)

The case of 2-3 barbaric factions.
You can argue from a roman or hellenic centric point of view that the Germanic tribes,Britons and the Sarmatians where not very important because there was not much direct contact with these 3 barbaric groups and the Greek/Roman world during the time period that EB is using for this mod.
But from a gallic point of view the Germans where very important because the germans where very expansize force.
The Germans (and Dacia) where pushing the gauls from central europe and they where also very interested in Gaul...they did like to raid and invade gaul ~;)
The Britons where also very important for the gauls because they where kin, trade partners (Tin,Gold etc) enemies and allies..
The sarmatians where a very important force in eastern europe.
Sarmatians where greatly responsible for the dimise of the Scytians.
Removing the Germans,Britons, the Sarmatians and maybe also the Dacians wil make EB (allot) less realisticly if you are playing the Gauls because you don't have the presure from the Germans, Britons and Dacians and also important It will make playing a Barb faction very boring......

guys lets take a look after the initial shock release

first of all, in their official DID YOU LIKE RTR 6.0 poll, half of people voted BEFORE play or even dl it, but they were "sure" the mod will be good


i got this answer to my "REMOVE UNITS OF CUSTOM BATTLE!! THERE IS NO WEAKNESS IN FACTIONS NOW" THAS NOT REALISTIC GERMANS CAN HIRE ELEPHANTS --> answer: dont buy it OMG!!!!!!!!! so lets make a elephant with MG's in its top, but if you dont like it DONT BUY!

the skins are... i miss unified colors for the army...
why make a city if i can fight with mercenarys?
moral is low for all, battles last very few seconds specially with phalanx
too many phalanx


i can see the pros of this mod man.... maybe some skins and more accuarate units

bad mod + buggy game = uninstall and back to bf2

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the skins are... i miss unified colors for the army...

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But unified colors for an army is ahistoric. You did download a mod called Rome: Total Realism, didn't you?

And the community surrounding a mod is not the main concern of the mod - if people are rude, don't talk to them, but don't blame the .exe file. And people may get defensive like then when EB comes out; you can't know really.

I have yet to really try RTR6 yet (dl-ed it and just got it running last night) so I can't comment about bugs like the custom battle unit selection or about mercenary systems or morale. But there will be mods and patches for RTR6, just like there were for RTR5 - I'd garantee it. For now, put away RTR6, but maybe you should wait before permamently dismissing it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube

Eb is most definately barbarian-centric. I'm not saying they don't work on civilized factions too, but it's clear that they are giving priority to barbarians. There's way too many Barbarian Factions for my tastes; I personally think you could get by with 2 or 3.

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your comment is essentially saying:

"I feel that Race Car drivers pay way too much attention to making their cars fast. I mean we get it; you drive fast cars - now concentrate on something else."

This is a mod dealing with HISTORICAL ACCURACY. Historically Europe didn't merely have 2 or 3 'barbarian' tribes. They had many more than the EB mod is portraying, but the amount portrayed in the EB mod will be the most accurate representation possible for the limits the game allots to the modders. Priority to the barbarians? Hardly. How about a priority to History.

Telling a modding team which attempts to base their modding decisions on history to merely cut parts of history out because you don't feel it's warranted is absurd. Please realize this.

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Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube

The real difference between RTR and EB is the focus. RTR has more of a balanced focus, whereas EB has more of a focus on Barbarians.

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I know there were a lot of posts in response to yours GC, but I'd just like to say that I have some sympathy with the guys in Eb who keep complaining that we are spending too much time on the Hellenistic factions. Honestly, it seems like we've had a lot more guys who are interested in beefing up Hellenistic factions' descriptions, traits, etc. than we've had working on the barb ones. It's not to say that we don't have excellent people working on the barb ones, but it's just that more folks have been contributing to text and other conceptual improvements to the Hellenistic ones than we've had on the other side. Some of it is a bias inherent to ancient sources--we've got lots more info on the unique buildings for the east and Hellenic areas to be honest, so there will probably be more buildings there, but we've tried to add a lot to the other areas too whenever we see something that fits our time frame and was of some importance (and unique). From things like all new skins to thousands of new and detailed names to more accurate provinces to banners to unique buildings to new faction buildings, etc., we've got plenty of new improvement for the 'civilized' factions. Just can't wait to show them all to you!! ~D

I played a bit more to RTR, i quite like it. I like most of the skins, i like the aor (though it could be worked a bit more). I don't care that much about what the gauls really are or the greeks as those factions were an abstraction in vanilla too. They had to make some decisions given the limited number of factions available and it's they way they went. I agree galatia should rather have been a rebel province, but after all why say no to a generic "celtic" faction ? It's a choice.

However the moral seem indeed a bit low (but for the moment nothing exagerated). The same charge bonus for all cavalry while not that important in my eyes is indeed a bit lame and the aor units for all the factions in the multiplayer and custom battles is a wrong idea (they should have only let the aor units the factions used historically).

For the mercenaries, i don't know... I like using mercenaries even in vanilla and rtr 5.4 i used tons of them so i am maybe biased. But it's true there is quite a large variety available easily. On the other hand mercenaries were widely used historically...

For the parthians being able to use too much infantry, depend of their conquests, historically because they needed mobile army they didn't relyed on infantry but they could have raised lots of infantry from the subjugated peoples if they had wanted (much like the achemenid and the sassanid). So i don't see the problem.

For heaven sake. Given RTR some time. Patches will enhance it I"m sure, having said that-----Your armies to start off with are not all that good, therefore you're forced to retrain and keep units alive, so that later on they'll have enough experience and better weapon grade so that they CAN fight a long battle.

There is a major difference between cultural identity and political control. On the basis of identity that would put the Galatians under the control of Gaul, all of the Macedonian successor states would be under one faction!

IMHO, the thing that bugs me most is that almost all elephant units in RTR have about 20 hitpoints.

OK, Elephants are quite strong, but you're not going to fool me into believing you couldn't kill one with three units of velites tossing all their spears at them...


Other than that, it is quite fun. I haven't really played all that much, but I like what I see. The only problem is that the over-balance of every faction has lead to quite unrealistic situations: in my current game (as the Romans), the Samaritans have just conquered Makedonia. Hmm.

Hmm... I haven't actually played the released version yet -- been moving and all, but as the "Lead Programmer" responsible for RTR 6 up until maybe a week before the release, I can address some concerns.

That all units are available in custom battle seems to have been an oversight (unless another decision was made...).

The "charge bonus" is a placebo and does absolutely nothing. I guess the values could have been varied for peace of mind, but it has no effect on gameplay.

We wanted the Galatians to have the flexibility of a faction; as rebels they would just sit and wait except in the very unlikely situation where they could join some "pop up" brigands, maybe one in a thousand.

Anyway, I'm glad some people liked the release and for those who didn't, we'd love to hear your constructive criticism and we'll try to address your concerns in the future.

Enjoy!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube

The real difference between RTR and EB is the focus. RTR has more of a balanced focus, whereas EB has more of a focus on Barbarians.

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Have you played EB? the team has stated many times that they will focus as much on other factions as the "Barbarians".

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I can criticize all I please. A mod is no good without criticism. I've already said I plan on playing it, but it helps nobody for you to shout "Heretic!" when someone dislikes a particular aspect of the mod.

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You can criticize all you want, no one is debating that. How ever, you criticism is based on ignorant guessing...not facts.

charge does nothing?argh...didnt know that, i tought that was a +"charge bonus" for the attack-number, damn CA.
well ok, well. now you are here. why can i recruit Italian Cavaly, Italian swordsmen, Italien skirmishers. it seems a bit lame, and a source-less excuse to make a heavy-swords-men merc. or am i wrong?
and why is it that my Hetairoi, richest folks of makedonia, have inferior stats oppessed to Mercenary-'Italien' cav.
will there be a 6.1 balancing patch?

PS: i really dont want to offend you. my english is so 'good' that i sometimes piss peopel of without meaning to do it. srry

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jerby

well ok, well. now you are here. why can i recruit Italian Cavaly, Italian swordsmen, Italien skirmishers. it seems a bit lame, and a source-less excuse to make a heavy-swords-men merc. or am i wrong?
and why is it that my Hetairoi, richest folks of makedonia, have inferior stats oppessed to Mercenary-'Italien' cav.
will there be a 6.1 balancing patch?

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I guess the "italian" AOR units are meant to represents the various people that rome fought early in her history, the "socii" who fought as an "alae" for each roman legion later and the peoples who joined Pyrrhus and Hannibal against Rome when they invaded Italy. For me that make sense.

As to the meaning of the stats for units i too have sometimes some difficulty to understand the balance, check if they can form in wedge, if they have a secondary attack or their numbers (or their morale etc). Italian allied cavalry was far better than the roman one but to have them superior to Macedonian Hetairoï would be strange to say the least.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bouis

Hmm... I haven't actually played the released version yet -- been moving and all, but as the "Lead Programmer" responsible for RTR 6 up until maybe a week before the release, I can address some concerns.

That all units are available in custom battle seems to have been an oversight (unless another decision was made...).

The "charge bonus" is a placebo and does absolutely nothing. I guess the values could have been varied for peace of mind, but it has no effect on gameplay.

We wanted the Galatians to have the flexibility of a faction; as rebels they would just sit and wait except in the very unlikely situation where they could join some "pop up" brigands, maybe one in a thousand.

Anyway, I'm glad some people liked the release and for those who didn't, we'd love to hear your constructive criticism and we'll try to address your concerns in the future.

Enjoy!

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hey good mod, but the barbs do seemed a little left out. That would be my only problme with rtr

wedge is nerfed, so that doesnt matter. I Can't comprehend why merc's in Italy have superior def/atk in comparison to Hetairo;arguably the best cav of that era.

I btw like the fact they toned down teh number of elephants. and upped teh number of men on a tower. ( only saw seleucid elie btw)

Another compliment goes to the shield that teh general wields (romans) but again: why not with All factions, the empty left arm looks lame. ( or is it a 2-handed short sword ~;) )

also nice work on teh new captains

@cube, they look cool, and are inferior. so what? i was just asking if they have a factual justification for the unit. not flaming or bashing. just curious. (and hoping for a pretty picture~;) )

Well I can't really comment on specific unit stats... as I'm sure you can imagine there was a variety of approaches tried and various opinions on approaches and implimentations and so forth within the team.

One thing you should look at is the distribution of defense between armor and skill/shield, plus the morale, upkeep costs, and so forth.

About the number of elephants... check out the number of forest elephants with one rider in a unit.. and try to figure out how we accomplished that... :)

As for the "barb" factions, fleshing them out more is a goal for the next major release.

well. the elephant thing is a compliment, i really liked it.
ok, i'll look it up.

((-def:armor,skill))

Hetairoi (20 units)
-atk:12
-def:12, 6, 0 (18)

italian:
-atk:12
-def:8,10 (18)

so hetairoi indeed have better armor (slight) but ,somehow, are less capable of defending themselves with teh sarissa, while the italian cav wields (about, dunno) the exact same spear. did the *poor* merc get better training than the *rich* hetairoi?
I dont follow...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jerby

@cube, they look cool, and are inferior. so what? i was just asking if they have a factual justification for the unit. not flaming or bashing. just curious. (and hoping for a pretty picture~;) )

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I guess the inspiration came from some osprey pictures and some thought on how the italian fought and how represent some generic aor italian units, for the picture it's the one on this page showing a lucanian a samnite and a campanian i guess. http://www.slitherine.com/Legion/Campaign_1.htm

keyser, ah i see, thanks. i'm sorry i was distrustfull..

https://img223.imageshack.us/img223/...tswrong8tt.png
is this an RTR fabrication, or has RTW always doen that. looks very, very gamy. can this be modded?
used Indain elie, for show. looks nice. altough there is also a unit with 2 Elies, and 4 bowmen (on each!!) wich looks even better

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As for the "barb" factions, fleshing them out more is a goal for the next major release.

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good to hear

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jerby

https://img223.imageshack.us/img223/...tswrong8tt.png
is this an RTR fabrication, or has RTW always doen that. looks very, very gamy. can this be modded?

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That's a holdover from vanilla. There's a trait that the elephant and chariot melee attacks have called "launching" which probably causes it, but I don't know exactly what turning it off would do. It might cause undesirable side-effects of some sort.

-Simetrical

I'm eagerly looking forward to EB, but I'm enjoyning RTR6.0 alot, it's a very well done mod and I'd really like to thank everyone involved in the process of creating that mod, from modders to people who donated to keep their site alive.

EB can take advantage from this release and learn from the RTR6.0 experience, what works, what don't work too well, what should be tweaked, etc..

The more mods the better, it is amazing what a bunch of volunteers can do to a game, RTR6.0 is already far, far better than vanilla, Creative Assembly would profit and sell tons more of a possible future TW title if they fired their entire crew and hired instead the RTR or EB team, or even just hired you guys as consultants, seriously.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wardo

EB can take advantage from this release and learn from the RTR6.0 experience, what works, what don't work too well, what should be tweaked, etc..

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It's nice in theory, but we don't have enough people with knowledge of the files to do all the coding we need to do, much less break down the code of other mods, even those similar enough to what we're doing to be of use to us.

I am installing rtr6 as I write this. I could not help but notice a few EB team members in the team acknowledgements including.... khelvan?

well, acknowledgement....
if you mean me, i've been around here quite a while. but that doesn't mean i wont play rtr until EB is there. Khelvan only stated EB's imcapability to go threw the codes of RTR. But i agree with Wardo, EB members shoudl play RTR, see if anything/what's wrong with it. mostly balancing issues

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EB members shoudl play RTR

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Are you crazy?! :furious3: They should work harder to finish EB ffs, and you ask them to "play??!! :director: :whip: :evilgrin: ~:joker:

@ Infierno, for starters, your not supposed to charge your cavalry into a prepared infantry unit, regardless of whether they have spears or not, cavalry allways needed to be supported by infantry or it was doomed. as to the amount of phalanx units, the phalanx was still the dominant tactical formation in this time period even a couple of centuries later Ceasar remarked on Germanians fighting in a "phalanx formation"

well i really like RTR, and dont see why anyone who likes EB wont like RTR as they are both Historical acurracey mods!

When EB comes out a sect of people will piss all over that mod as well. There will probably be a few bugs here and there and things will get tweaked a bit in future patches.

I think RTR launch for 6.0 was more of a success than a failure. Some new formations, sound mod, and fixing of minor bugs will make that game great.

It saddens me that people give it so much hell. MAXIMUS I has gone out of his way, in just about every post of his, to tell people that he is upset with 6.0 and that he is NOW playing SPQR, because he enjoys SPQR.

Reporting bugs and glitches is one thing, comparing mods and proclaiming that you're going to ignore one of them is a bit childish.

RTR will not be played by me, especially having bouis attacking EB and defending RTR.

Im playing RTR 6 right now its brillaint- DIE REBEL SCUM for the glory of ROme! Sorry got carried away.
Cant wait for ROMA 6.0 Bouis if it goes like 5.5 it going to be sweet.
I for onwe will be playing both

First of all I love RTR, I think it's a great mod given what was possible in RTW.

I think the main reason it was greeted with disappointment in some quarters was the unrealistic expectations of many fans.
After months of tireless work a lot of people were expecting something totally new and unfamiliar, whereas when they started it up...new map, new units, new stats, new recruitment system...but same old RTW under the bonnet, same as it ever was.

The problem for EB is that actually, even though your map is even better, your units even prettier and your recruitment system even more refined (probably) along with a host of unique buildings, new campaign map graphics etcetcetc.....it's still gonna be RTW, and a lot of it is going to be very very familiar, so i think EB (which is probably even more highly anticipated) is doomed to a mixed reception, NO MATTER HOW GOOD IT IS, just because some people have built it up in their minds to something it can never be within the confines of RTW.

I'm not a modder though, so you're welcome to prove me wrong ~;)

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Originally Posted by O_Stratigos

Are you crazy?! :furious3: They should work harder to finish EB ffs, and you ask them to "play??!! :director: :whip: :evilgrin: ~:joker:

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yeah indeed. I take it back: keep modding lazy scum! teh emre fact you'r reading teh forums here meanbs you should be modding!!!

na, just kidding...

as for *berserker. c'mon it's about teh mod, not the people...and bouis is not a monster. Face it, even Bouis is gonna try EB when it comes out ( i guess, since he dwells these forums)

Well, Jerby, I wouldn't buy a game that 5 year olds enjoy, because it's gonna be cheesy. And I wouldn't play a mod from people who acted like 5 year olds towards EB, the mod I actually wanna be playing, and simply I don't like the mod. I tryed it and I thought,"This is as rubbish as Vanilla!"and uninstalled it. I think Eb will beat RTR a hundred times over. I think Bouis was terrible in the way he treated EB. And me.also, bouis, try and insult me for this post, and Barocca is gonna hear from it, as I already PMed him a few times.

I'm not insulting the modders from RTR that behaved and didn't be vicious towards EB and SPQR. It's just I hate seeing a mod dissing another mod in a terrible way. Bouis was terribly behaved as well.

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Originally Posted by Divinus Arma

I am installing rtr6 as I write this. I could not help but notice a few EB team members in the team acknowledgements including.... khelvan?

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Well, way back when Gaius Julius and I decided to form a team together to create an historical accuracy mod. This only lasted a few weeks, but it is worth noting that I was a member of RTR before ZaPPpa, you could say a founding member.

I didn't realize I had made it to the credits, though. That is nice of them.

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Originally Posted by Berserker!

I tryed it and I thought,"This is as rubbish as Vanilla!"and uninstalled it.

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that is the part i didnt know. I want you to know i completly agree with you concerning Bouis' behavior. But it would be very jugdemnetal to condem a Mod by the action of 1 person.

khelvan, that's nice of them. when was it you were an RTR member? what went wrong?

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Originally Posted by khelvan

Well, way back when Gaius Julius and I decided to form a team together to create an historical accuracy mod. This only lasted a few weeks, but it is worth noting that I was a member of RTR before ZaPPpa, you could say a founding member.

I didn't realize I had made it to the credits, though. That is nice of them.

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It was my idea. You were a founder of RTR and I have a thing for history, which people might have noticed...

wow khelvan i never knew you were a founding member. Thats kinda wierd

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Originally Posted by Fabolous

It was my idea. You were a founder of RTR and I have a thing for history, which people might have noticed...

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I'm pretty sure I saw Tyr say he wanted khelvan in the credits for 6.0 before you ever joined RTR.

-Simetrical

~:cheers: I think that RTR is pretty good. But when EBs beta come out I will play that insted..

Hopefully CA will release a patch that comes prior to BI, one that fixes the lame AI, that way EB will benefit from it.

wouldn't get high hopes if i were you."release a patch with variable unit speeds, ebtter AI, fixed bugs, new functions." little chance. CA will want you to buy their products. so all 'new stuff' will be for teh XP. i guess...

my hopes are for you, my guess is against.

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Originally Posted by Simetrical

I'm pretty sure I saw Tyr say he wanted khelvan in the credits for 6.0 before you ever joined RTR.

-Simetrical

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Really? He was not put in until the second to last run through when I suggested him. Then again they had also forgotten Gaius Julius...

Rtr is better than the original game by any standard - that is the bottom line for me !!!

I think the truth in the matter is that people dismissed 6.0 way to early. I'm well enough into my game now that I've enjoyed great battles, suprises, set backs, and above all a vastly new experience with AOR. IT gives new motivation for conquering foreign lands.

I just recently installed darth formation 6.6 ontop of RTR 6.0 (was able to continue my saved game too) and battles have gotten a lot better because of it.

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Originally Posted by Chester

I think the truth in the matter is that people dismissed 6.0 way to early. I'm well enough into my game now that I've enjoyed great battles, suprises, set backs, and above all a vastly new experience with AOR. IT gives new motivation for conquering foreign lands.

I just recently installed darth formation 6.6 ontop of RTR 6.0 (was able to continue my saved game too) and battles have gotten a lot better because of it.

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Please explain about darth 6.6

The AI :

-no longer sends in single units to attack your front but attacks as one big army

-missle troops are guarded by heavy infantry or cavalry, so you must breach the infantry prior to hitting missles, also AI is much smarter using slingers and archers when YOU'RE defending one end of a bridge

-Calvary trys to out flank you

-Since armies attack as one, morale lasts longer so AI is much more challenging.

THE BAD NEWS-

Formation buttons are a bit screwed, so you now have to manuelly make straight lines and all that. WHich is a bit of a bastard.

THey still work for me except that the sound for phalanxes formation still says Cavalry First Three Lines which is weird

Because he can't change the formation name - that should be in the documentation some where.

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Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube

The real difference between RTR and EB is the focus. RTR has more of a balanced focus, whereas EB has more of a focus on Barbarians.

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Hah, no.
We focus on everything that was there in history equally, because every group of people was important. And there is no such thing as barbarians, it's an imaginary concept made up by Romans and Greeks.