mine would definently be the outflank and sourround strategy, it creates chaos :)
I only listed the ones that I think are the most famous ones, sorry if i mised some :(
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mine would definently be the outflank and sourround strategy, it creates chaos :)
I only listed the ones that I think are the most famous ones, sorry if i mised some :(
Of course... they all are important and not mutal exclusive so it is really hard to say. I picked battle field positioning.
I tried horse archers but it's just too much to handle. I use the standard charge with spears, flank with horses tactic.
I know its not the best but I like hitting them in the center. I change my strategy whenever possible to use flanking manuvers but I just feel - well - not like a pussy running up the center. I feel like a true comander and not a coward. Thats all.
A good head on charge can be effective but you really need super elite troops for that, and i would say it would have to be after a hail of arrows. Even with a head on charge you would still need calvalry to flank atleast partly.
Well tactics change from battle to battle, what troops do I have? What troops do they have? Am I attacking or defending? But one thing I will always try and do. . . kill their general. ~:cheers:
I would say I use a combination of "flank and attack from rear" and "location on battlefield advantage". Killing the general early in the battle is of cause good, but it mostly does not happen. There is nothing like a good attack from the rear ~D
Sometimes as the Turks, I get bored and make Gold Shield and Sword JHI in Castille, Leon, and Aragon. That way, I can field 8 man strong JHI stacks and rampage through Europe. It's ridiculously fun.
I've heard a lot about Janiisary heavy infantry, are they the best in the game?
Pretty Much. From the Gnome editor:-Quote:
Originally Posted by Patron
Janissary Heavy Infantry
Cost: 725
Charge: 4
Melee: 5
Defence: 3
Armour: 3
Morale: 8
They are armed with Polearms (Bonus against Cavalry).
They also have an Armour Piercing attack. (Bonus against troops with armour 4+?)
You can have a valour bonus for them in a province. (Bulgaria I think.)
You can also use them in the desert due to the regular 3 Armour stat.
And also they are in the Fast Infantry Category (March 6 Run 12 Charge 13)
Also disciplined I think.
w00t! ~:cheers:
I like the feigned retreat. Send a few units to suck them in, keep them coming, thin them out as they try to charge, then hi from three directions at once.
When in doubt, always go for the general. Killing and/or capturing him is the single best way to cause the enemy army to route. I've managed to win battles this way even when I was heavily outnumbered (you can read my initial post from the "Best Battles" thread for a good example).
take a strong army, gain the positional advantage, soften em up with missiles and cav archers, get the best matchups unit for unit, concentrate on destroying the morale of one unit by pinning, flanking, and shooting simultaneously, stay organized and roll em up.
ichi :bow:
The infantry line supported by archers and heavy infantry+assorted cavalry who flail about in the rear and on the flanks, and sometimes join the line until all enemies are dead. If the line fails all units switch to flailing about to attempt to retain control and defeat the enemy through any desperate measure possible. It's worked so far...
Today in my Turkish campaign, the Sicilians attacked my Sicily with a stack and a bit, with their 2 star King in charge. I had a small force of just under 252 men, comprised of 4 Turcoman HA's, 2 AHC and a former prince that had both the pride and Often Drunk vices, with 2 stars.
I used the Mongol tricks against them, put my HA's on their flanks and split them up, and picked their flanks apart unit by unit. the bult ok their troops moved towards my general (who had 6 valour, which was handy) and AHC. Then their cavalry (about 4 units of Mounted Sergeants) attacked. My general countercharged, and my AHC hit from the flanks, the Sicilian cavalry routed.
Then the Sicilians formed a battle line with Infantry (Feudal Sergeants and FMAA) in front, archers behind, and their King and the remaining Mounted Sergeants behind that. I reformed my army, with 2 THC and 1AHC on one flank and my general and the remaining cavalry on the other, and rushed both sides at once.
It was a slaughter, Sicilians lost 270 dead and 660 captured (who they did not want back). I lost 119 and had 133 men left.
In case you are wondering, I've been fielding lots of cavalry armies in this campaign to get close to the way of the Mongols.
When I'm attacking I normally take my whole army to the enemys flank. This sometimes makes then abandon a good position. Then once I have them were they have little or no advantage I march straight at them, stopping just inside missle range. Most of the time they will ether chage me, or sit and take heavy losses from my alabasters. If they start to charge I quickly sent my Cavs around the flanks to cause some added confusion. If there is a lot of woods around I try to use a unit of Brigands to get behide and shoot at the generals unit, most of the time my unit gets killed, but when it works it can be devistating.
Not neccissarily. I only attack if:Quote:
Originally Posted by manbaps
In either case I could charge head on and do OK. I usually don't though.
- My unit's are at least a little superior.
- Have much greater numbers.
They are disciplined and elite, which means that they are not very worried about non-elite troops fleeing and they don't suffer a big penalty if the general dies.Quote:
Originally Posted by BAD
The AP bonus is +1 attack at 3 or 4 armour, +2 at 5 or 6 armour, +3 at 7 or 8 armour, and so on against infantry.
Against cavalry it is +1 attack at 4 or 5 armour, +2 at 6 or 7 armour, +3 at 8 or 9 armour, and so on.
Heh heh, sounds a lot like my battles. I've not voted yet because 'barely organised chaos' is not one of the options on offer. ~DQuote:
Originally Posted by Uesugi Kenshin
I will go for the enemy General if the opportunity arises and with the crazy AI, it often does.
My initial plans resemble m52nickersons, which is to maneuvre and do the Pacman routine, munching away at one end of the enemy line. Of course, they respond by rearranging and it ends up with point and click attacks on anything which looks advantageous. No finesse at all, really.
I have only recently mastered the user interface to pull off the 'pin with spear, flank and rear with anything else' routine. Previous mistake was selecting a spear unit and making them engage an enemy unit by clicking to order a charge or attack. Of course this previously led to frustration with them abandoning their position to pursue enemies running away. Divided attention means I often don't find them again until they've finished the chase but they're uselessly positioned at the edge of the map, a mile from where I really need them.
Of course the trick is to use click-drag to set formation depth, width and orientation, then use hold position, hold formation but ask them to do 'nothing'. They will defend themselves quite happily for long enough for supporting units to march around to flank and rear whatever is hitting them.
I go for the enemy general as well.
I tend to use spearman to contain enemy units (and draw fire from archers etc) and use my better units to fight my way to the general. its always nice to sweep down with a few units of lancers as well.
As for Janissary Heavy Infantry they are great BUT when i make them fight (in the custom battle mode) against swiss armourmed pikemen they loose.
But in the game JHI seem more effective.
I would like to know if janissary heavy infantry can beat joms vikings (my favourite unit) but i couldnt do the battle in the custom battle mode.
There have been long threads in the past (both here and over at the Medieval: Total War site) comparing the various elite infantry. The consensus was that SAP's vs. JHI depended on how the units were used: head-to-head, the SAP's win; if maneuver is introduced, the JHI win. Remember that SAP are normal speed (6/10/11), and depend on their rank bonus for power. JHI are fast speed (6/12/13), and attack just as well only one rank deep.Quote:
Originally Posted by LoboSoulman
When comparing JHI to Joms Vikings, the rank argument doesn't apply, but the speed issue remains. Head-to-head, almost no unit will stand against Joms. But if you can tire them, get terrain advantage, position, etc., then they become vulnerable. I once gamed two Kerns (250 florins total) against one Joms (725 florins). The Kerns skirmished, with the non-target Kern chucking javelins at the Joms when possible. This went on with light casualties on both sides until the Joms became exhausted - at which point they routed.
The moral of the story is that even the most humble units can gain victory if used correctly.
IMHO the best way to engage with spearmen is to order the main spearline to walk right up to the enemy lie and sit there.
Thanks geezer 57, I am new to these forums as I have only got the game recently. I have had my fair share of problems with kerns when i have had joms vikings in the past!!!!.
Going back to strategy a lot can depend on fate. I have seen a very high skilled enemy commander get hit by a freak cannon shot (great great moment) and his army crumble soon after.
My strategy to flank with cavalry normally works , theres nothing like charging into the rear with heavy cavalry to turn a battle.
I get that all the time man, whenever I have cannons, and they aim at the commander, they almost always kill him (unless he's really far away)Quote:
Originally Posted by LoboSoulman
it's certainly a great weapon for a quick win
Quote:
Originally Posted by PittBull260
It really is amazing how accurate artillery and cannons are when aiming at a general--be it the enemy's, or your own.....
yep, happens to me all the time, cause I send my general in to fight, trying to be all brave and encourage my men and shit, and BOOM I die lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Martok
Being a Turcophile, I love the hit and run tactics, and fake retreat to draw units out of formation.
Missile cavalry all-rounders (SotP, Szekes, Boyars) are my favourite units. Skirmish with arrows to get their morale down, and then charge to break them completely.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PittBull260
There's a reason I keep my general in the rear if the enemy has seige weapons. ~;) Now if only the AI would be at least that intelligent as well.....
A few days ago, I fought a castle assault where my catapult took out the defending general, even though he was right up against the inside wall. I mean, come on!! I know catapults have a high angle of fire and all, but that shot was still one in a million. I know I shouldn't complain, as killing the enemy general made it easier for my troops to storm the castle, but it still struck me a tad unrealistic.
Of course this is a great plan ~;) . Sometimes I fall into the 'organizedQuote:
Originally Posted by ichi
chaos' category :embarassed: . :charge:
A fake retreat is sometimes referred to as a feint. That seems to get me good results with the AI but a good cav charge :charge: into the flank is my fav!
MTW is hardcoded to give the Generals giant-flying-rock-magnet armor
They're not unkillable. I actually like to focus on the general. Usually I bait him into a trap by exposing a 'weakness' in the middle of my line. Usually, the enemy general is a cavalry unit that comes in and I close off his escape route. Killing or capturing the general is awesome, the enemy just will not stand against you. IME, it's the only way to get knights to rout.
I voted killing the general, because it's the only constant tactic that I have in battles. If you pwn the general, you pwn the battle 90% of the time.
Those are some good strategies listed which of course have different usefulness in different situations... Feints and hit and run are great ways to draw your enemy from a favorable position as the AI doesn't have the nerve to have his men hold. I agree with several of the people who've responded that head on charges are to be avoided and I add even with superior forces as a decent general knows how to use tactics to beat back an oncoming horde.
Another thing is that when you divide your forces and come towards both flanks of the enemy army (assuming they're on defensive) the AI starts to freak and doesn't know how to respond properly. I usually have the heavily armed infantry leading a forward advancing wing and put my cavalry on the other wing and as the infantry approaches the enemy focuses on them and may even charge. This of course allows me to charge into their rear with my cavalry and instant rout.
Grey Fox.... that's a great idea... Cavalry when used correctly are devastating, there is a very good reason that the Mongols beat nearly anything and everything in their path.
I have evolved my own tactic. Basically it's pin and flank minus the flank.
My typical army consists of three units of spearmen, a couple decent infantry, a few archer units, and two heavy cavalry. Sometimes I also have some horse archers.
Now, when I have to attack an army, I'll spend a few minutes getting them into formation with the three units of spearmen deployed about 2-3 ranks deep along the front line, and archers either in front or behind. My heavy infantry is usually deployed about 5 metres behind my spears, holding position. My cavalry will be deployed a fair distance behind them.
Anyway, I will march in formation until I'm just barely in archer range of them. Then I open fire with my archers, usually by this time the enemy will be marching towards me. Once the enemy begins to charge, my archers will cease fire, then my spears will hold position while the enemy charges into them.
My spears should manage to hold their ground, and the enemy will get worn down after a few minutes and waver. Any attempt to flank my troops will be intercepted by my infantry. After a few units have begun to retreat, I'll send in my heavy cavalry. My spearmen will very rarely waver, and in formation can hold off as many troops as the enemy throws at them. They do tend to suffer when charged by cavalry, though. Oh, and if I bring horse archers along, I use them to lure a particularly powerful unit away from the group. Alone, they can't destroy the unit, but after the main battle is over I can send reinforcements.
This tactic is definitely the one I use the most. It may be complicated to describe, but to me it's second nature and works very well. Still, one day I may get the crap beaten out of me and need to change tactics. ~;)
I forgot... added bonus to killing the general... Many times, this means you've killed the monarch or an heir. I find this to be incredibly useful when crusading. If you keep killing the Sultan/heirs, which are usually the only Ghulam cavalry the Turks or Egyptians field, you can start a rebellion. I've ended more than one faction, just by taking Palestine and aiming for the enemy general when the Egyptians or the Turks sought to drive me back out. Once they go rebel, they're much, much less likely to attack, giving you a bit of breathing room for your next crusade, Tripoli!
What's great about enemy generals as well is that they're usually extremely ballsy and prideful and riding with their best troops which lead him to charge out whereas a smart general would hold back and let his troops do the body of the fighting.
Sometimes after setting a good attack position of spears/archers and armor killing infantry I'll use one light cavalry just for the purpose of harassing an enemy general to draw them into my death trap and then have everyone throw everything at him.
Yea, I'm not a big fan of artillery on the battlefield, but one of the greatest MTW moments I have witnessed was when, because of the short range, my catapault shot very high into the air, and the ball came nearly straight down, and it landed dead smack on a poor enemy soldier. When I saw big ball flattening that little dude I was lmao.
Yeah, I like artillery too. Unfortunately I find it too much of a hassle to build them and bring them along when I'm in desparate need of other troops. Right now, my entire Byzantine Army (5-6 stacks) only has one or two catapults.
I like the Arty too and try to have a few with my attacking armies, they seem
to help with the castle assaults ~:cool: . But there is the problem of setting
them up before battles so they will be able to hit anything if you are the
attacker :disappointed: . Only occaisionally can I get them into a excellent
position.
Yeah, dgfred I have the same feelings and experience about castle sieges and how ineffective siege machines seem as you find there are layers to castle defenses and you have to position them close enough so that they can batter inner gates as well as the outer gates.
This has pretty much become my experience in sieges, position my machines at a distance close enough to hit the inner gate and put a unit of armored men around the siege guys to take some heat from the arrow towers. They eventually open the gate and I target the inner gate, it gets half destroyed before my artillery runs out of ammo or is too battered to continue then I sacrifice half a unit of guys to open the gate under boiling oil and archer attacks.
I used to have that same problem, to the point that I'd expect to need three cats to pull off a siege. One for the main gate, one for the inner gate and one to hit the arrow tower most threatening to the cat hitting the inner gate. Between the two of them there's enough ammo to finish whichever target requires most pounding to finish off.
After a while, I sussed out that you can ignore the gate openings completely, if you just kock a blooming great hole in the wall/stockade for each enclosed area, then send troops in to hit whatever is in there. Don't even attempt to go through the gates at all.
Not particularly realistic, but it works...
Examples
Wooden fort - no siege kit required. Stockade demolition in under 5 mins using fire arrows, slightly longer if you ask any spear/axe/sword unit, or even peasants (!!) to 'attack' the stockade. Again, avoid any area near enough to the gate for boiling oil.
Keep - 1 catapult. Main gate at 6 o'clock, place cat at 9 or 3 o'clock, where you can see both the wooden and stone walls and keep far enough back to be safe from arrow towers. Fire-arrow the wooden stockade and cat the stone wall. Fight each enclosure separately. Once one area is beaten, don't forget to pull your troops out asap as arrow fire continues until the end of the battle.
Castle - at least two cats, preferably 3. Place all three on one side of the castle and have one smash the nearest arrow tower whilst the other two hit the same patch of wall. Once broken, switch targeting to the wall around the rear enclosure.
I've not gone up against Citadel of Fortress yet, so that's the limit of my advice.
In setup, you can move your cats around as much as you like until ready to start. It's tricky to get them a position where both enclosure walls AND an arrow tower are in range but 3 cats lets you get them a wall and an arrow tower each and you can switch as necessary. Icon showing Arrow tower out of range is good, as it might mean they can't hit you but you can still hit a wall section, unhindered, from that spot.
Find a spot where every bit of castle is out of range, then edge forward in small increments until a key target is just in range. You should suffer fewer crew losses that way.
EDIT: Typos and minor additions.
From my experience, you need at least two catapults to sufficiently destroy a small castle with stone walls. Though it is possible to just blast a hole in a wall and go from there, expect to take many casualties. Ideally, you should destroy as many towers as you can, and blast several holes in the walls before sending your cheap units in.
Sieges have so much potential to be very strategic battles. I would have appreciated the ability to capture parts of a castle, and fight on the walls. But that was done in RTW, so I guess I shouldn't be complaining. ~:)
Does anyone know what effect destroying a keep has? I used to always go for the keep, thinking it might weaken the defences somehow...
Well, it removes a very stiff arrow tower from the equation, but otherwise it has no effect. Mind you, if you clear a courtyard of enemy troops, the towers around it stop firing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Babij