hmmm, what do you guys think, i think i could have been thera.
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hmmm, what do you guys think, i think i could have been thera.
Atlantis ? As real as aliens , big foot , loch ness , ghosts etc'... ~;)
The guy (Plato) just wanted to describe an utopia , that is , he wrote how Athens should have been .
no i dont think so, he got his source/story translated from the egyptians. he didnt came up with the story.
Plato said that (the Egyptian thing) , we don't have any proof of him visiting there , don't we ?
maybe, maybe not. but there is quite alot of proof around that thera could have been atlantis.
1st the eruption that destroyed thera and crete.
2nd the fact that there had a very advanced society
3rd the lay of the island is the same as Plato described
i can name more but i must look it up
The theory is that Atlantis was in fact the Minoan culture. And that fits quite well.
Teh Minoan culture was well alive by the time of the Mycenean time, so the Greeks (and Athenians expecially) could very well have had a lingering memory of them. The fact that when the Myceneans captured Crete, the Minoan culture was changed and anything but centralized anymore, that makes it another state alltogether for the Myceneans.
Now add the Egyptian fears from the eruption of Santorini (Thera) and the resulting tsunami and you have a really good case for a myth that cold rear its not-so-ugly head several centuries later (but who knows, maybe Atlantis was a common tale in the average Greek homes).
I would say that Atlantis is myth but who really knows. :book:
Nope, 100% Platonic Allegory.
What I find interesting is that so many people out to find some kernel of historical basis for Plato's Atlantis. Why not his other allegories though, nobody seems to try to find a real event behind ‘the Cave' or locate the real ‘Ring of Gyges'
Hey guys i think your forgetting that i live in atlantis ~;)
,but seriuosly i believe in the thera theory. Atlantis has been greatly exagerated, but there must be a cire to the myth.
Yes, I've read about the Minoan theory too and it sounds more plausible that Thera could've been large and sophisticated enough to bring a certain amount of awe to the Greeks (or, if you believe Plato, also the Egyptians) and create the legend. The book I've read claimed something about Plato exaggerated by x10 the actual number that gives the size of the city, and how Knossos may fits in. However, it does not seem very true to me...Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraxis
Anyway, there's a game called Zeus (from Impression Games) in which its expansion pack simply puts Thera as a military colony of Atlantis established with intentions of battling against Mycenae! Of course, it's pure fiction just for fun...
Oh wait, it's all a lie. We all know the Flying Spaghetti Monster's worshippers created and lived in Atlantis, wherever that is.
Thera was a very important tradecenter for the Minoan culture.
An image on a tablet or something, found in one of the viallges on Thera shows the island as it looked before the event. A large city was placed on the island in the center (much larger than now) with several smaller towns and viallges on the ring. Of course that city is gone entirely... completely gone... nothing left. Obviously.
So Thera itself has some importance.
Couple the loss of this most important place with the destruction of all Minoan ports (there wasn't a single one on the south coast) to the tsunami and you can see how destructive it was. Also it has been noted that the naval images (squid, dolphins and all that) didn't appear until just after the event. The population was clearly terrified of the sea and this might have been carried over into the Myceneans that took the island some 50 years later. They must have been able to remember that Crete was very strong before, and now the population is scared shitless of the sea and are very weak while their state has crumbled to dust around them.
Remember it would be like the US becoming a huddled collection of scared communities overnight wih no power. Wouldn't we get a bit afraid of whatever it was that did that?
I don't know if anybody watched Discovery. In one time there was a scientist that aported severely rescemblance with the things wrote by Plato and some places around the actual Titicaca. It's not definitive at all but it makes you think, and i don't remember all exactly but:
1- Plato talks about the presence (in this lands) of an unic amalgamation of metals (it was gold and something else), that only is present in actual Bolivia. He says that this metal was used to construct things and to sell. Perhaps (always assuming Atlantis existed) the eqypgians saw this.
2- Plato says that the location is beyond the Pillars of Hercules, well South América is passing this pillars.
3- Plato says that they are advanced, but i really think this is a consecuence of the exageration of those days. Perhaps it was advanced (but they didn't fly on saucers ~D ). Evidence of a misterious culture founded around the area shows a similarity with the incas and aztecas, but the union of the parts forming their structures (now laying in ruins of course) was forged in niquel, to found niquel you need modern methods (i don't remember the temp. but you can see it in your periodic table). Even more the carbon dates this structures around 10000 years ago, and a big portal (with a sort of calendary) shows that it was maked that way to resemble an old position of the astres, planets and the moon, wich only happens in a certain period of time around the thousands.
4- This similarity also can give you a clue on it's name: the aztec particle "atl" means beetween and "antis" means water.
5- The area of the Titicaca also haves an amazing similarity too descriptions of Plato about the terrain and the capital city. For example the text states that there was an small mountain in wich the central palace was emplaced, with white stripes surrounding the circumsference, that was founded on the Titicaca region and also some evidence that could be interpreted like a wall, at the exact same distance from the palace that Plato said with the size that he stated.
6- It is proved that with some improvised ships the locals could actually travel thought the ocean. It was proved on the last century by an adventurer who constructed the ships like the theories stated, practically of gross weavering of "paper".
7- There is another piece that could be evidence of comercial engagements beetween ancient Egypt and America, because rest of marihuana was founded on many corpses of Pharaos and others hi positions, probably used for ritual or placer. Now the marihuana only grows naturally on American soil. Well you could say that if this is true then it must be some data on the egyptian side, that's true, but a great part of ancient eqypt history was lost and this "myth" could be the only remaining "evidence".
8- Now the most wonderful thing of all is that the zone of the Titicaca was flooded (almost all) by a great movement of water (the end of the glacial period) wich dates from 15000 years ago!!! And that's the most important counter-evidence (besides of the mithical way in wich Plato tells the story in certain parts) that some scientists have against an actual Atlantis. Why? Well because saying that a civilizated culture (or even humans) were habitating America in that period will throw down all known history!!
I don't beleave it, but it's personal. The "evidence" exists... Or is it just a bunch of amazing coincidence?
PS: For that post over there i think i make myself clear that there is mentions of an amalgamation of metals unic to Bolivia didn't i? Well that's what differences Atlantis from "the Cave", the cave cannot be found, it has no actual description of the location, it's an obvious allegory, but with this one at least one could doubt...
PPS: Anthiocus- So you read the thig about the Flying Spaghetti Monster too... ~D ~D ~D (in any case here's the link for anyone who missed it: www.venganza.org- it's just a joke of course, but an elaborated an intelligent one)
i dont know about thisQuote:
Originally Posted by Soulforged
the minoic civilisation was very advanced, the culture found on there was too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulforged
no the dates are not correct. the aztecs didnt emerged till atleast 1000 AD. the inca's same thing. the mayas were in the right period, but not on the right placeQuote:
Originally Posted by Soulforged
i know, RHA II.Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulforged
~:eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulforged
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulforged
my arguments.
1. the vulcano eruption in thera was 4x times larger than krakatau. the eruption at krakatau caused even a slight raise of tide in the english channel, 5000 km around krakatau you could find dust of the vulcano eruption. imagine the disaster at thera. that might explain why the great minioc civilisation suddenly stopped existing. the layer of ash (called thepra) was 60 meters high/deep at some places of thera, on crete they also found the thepra (though not that deep). this might have been the biggest disaster in human history. when the excavated Thera they found a very old and beautiful culture.
2. plato said that the capitol of atlantis had a 18km diameter, about the size of ancient thera.
3. the time the vulcano erupted was about 1500 bc, but you might notice the dates arent correct. but in 1960 Dr. Galanopoulus discovered that plato or the eggy's possibly made a mistake in their counting. they gave the sign of 100 the definition of 1000. so when plato says 9000 years ago he meant 900 years ago. when you leave away the 0 of plato's date for the disaster you come at 1500.
4. the pillars of hercules is known as the strait of gibraltar but also in the ancient world as the 2 mountains on the southern coast of Mykene. those mountains are right infront of thera.
5. the minoics were at war with the people of the mainland of greece. there might have been a great battle of wich the egyptians heard. thera a ally of crete might have helped.
i have a few more but i dont know how to wright them down in english.
I have also read about those Egyptian mummyes and Marihuana,from a Finnish science magazine.That seems a real mystery.Ofcourse if there was a trading connection between South America and Egypt,ancient drug business would have been part of it. ~D
Emperor- I know the dates are not correct, it's obvious. I compared it so everybody could have a picture of what i'm talking. But being the carbon dates from 10000 years ago you could easly go and say that this mysterious culture was the preambule or the origin for the others two, and the etimology of the word Atlantis is another worthy coincidence.
The only problem with Thera culture, as i have been reading, is just that you can compare it with the capital, but Plato talked about other 12 provinces, and if you calculate the size required for that, then Thera is probably not it, but South America is big enough to contain a great capital and other 12 provinces. Of course this is just a conjecture, no evidence of ancient culture were found (at least to that ancient) on the rest of South America, just in the part of the Titicaca. But lets admit it, the marihuana on Eqypt and the mistiryous culture in Bolivia are truly a mistery, at least it makes you think, not in the posibility of the existence of Atlantis, but in all the others possibilities that this implies...
If cannabis is only found naturally in America, how do you explain the Hashinshin? They smoked plenty of hashis, which is in fact cannabis or a close relative (I'm not an expert on this). They were around long before Columbus went to America and American goods flowed into the rest of the world.
Sorry soulforged but here you´re wrong, you can say that Cannabis sativa grows better here in america, but isn´t naturally from america.Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulforged
Cannabis, one of man's oldest cultivated plants, may have been first cultivated for food. Cannabis is an Asiatic plant and probably first grew in a widespread area of temperate Asia, from the Caucasus Mountains and Caspian Sea to Eastern Asia. Specimens have been found by archaeologist that are 3,000 to 4,000 years old at an Egyptian site. Hemp fabrics have been excavated from sites located near Ankara, Turkey, dated in the 8th Century B.C. Cannabis was also harvested in Palestine and Mesopotamia at the time of Christ. The oldest evidence of Cannabis is 6000 years old, and comes from a coarse cloth of hemp fiber that was found in some of the oldest sites of human habituation in Asia.
The problem is still why do you judge that Plato is actually communicating any real information, aside from an invented allegory (and why just this one allegory not the others…). There is no other hint of Atlantis before Plato, or in any Egyptian source. Plato was an intelligent and creative person, shave with Occam's razor: he made it up out of whole cloth in order to illustrate a point of morality and philosophy. Do you look for the source of Star Wars or do you accept that George Lucas made it up.Quote:
my arguments.
1. the vulcano eruption in thera was 4x times larger than krakatau. the eruption at krakatau caused even a slight raise of tide in the english channel, 5000 km around krakatau you could find dust of the vulcano eruption. imagine the disaster at thera. that might explain why the great minioc civilisation suddenly stopped existing. the layer of ash (called thepra) was 60 meters high/deep at some places of thera, on crete they also found the thepra (though not that deep). this might have been the biggest disaster in human history. when the excavated Thera they found a very old and beautiful culture.
2. plato said that the capitol of atlantis had a 18km diameter, about the size of ancient thera.
3. the time the vulcano erupted was about 1500 bc, but you might notice the dates arent correct. but in 1960 Dr. Galanopoulus discovered that plato or the eggy's possibly made a mistake in their counting. they gave the sign of 100 the definition of 1000. so when plato says 9000 years ago he meant 900 years ago. when you leave away the 0 of plato's date for the disaster you come at 1500.
4. the pillars of hercules is known as the strait of gibraltar but also in the ancient world as the 2 mountains on the southern coast of Mykene. those mountains are right infront of thera.
5. the minoics were at war with the people of the mainland of greece. there might have been a great battle of wich the egyptians heard. thera a ally of crete might have helped.
i have a few more but i dont know how to wright them down in english.
I checked the drug mummies article,and it seems my memory has failed me once again.The remnants of drugs on those royal Egyptian mummys isnt marihuana,but cocaine.Coca bush grows naturally only in Southern America. :bow:
yeah about the weed, its true. in the middleages they made ropes from hennep and there was no trade connection. how could i forget
hmm coca, that changes it. but i could be true. indians had sages about white men coming to them long before columbus opened america for europe. a king of the mayas was white/not mayan. so that definitly points into europe/north africa's direction.
Conon394
i'm not saying that everything plato says is true, but most myths have a circle of truth in it. i think that if plato's sory has that, it must have been Thera who he used as atlantis.
I have heard of nicotine in mummies, but one should never discount the possibility of the excavators actually smoking while doing their intial work (they weren't as careful back in the 1800s and early 1900s). Cocaine is of course a very interesting case. And it is even mroe interesting that we don't hear much of it. A lockdown? A case of 'silence to death'? Who knows...Quote:
Originally Posted by Emperor Umeu 1
Anyway the Aztecs had a very interesting myth, I'm sure many of you know it. One of their main gods, Quetzalqoatl, the feathered serpent (dragon if you wish), had a human form. It was that of a tall, white man with a full blonde beard, and he would come from the sea in a sailing city with garments from the highest structures (sounds much like a sailing ship doesn't it?).
Well, a white man could be explained with an albino, but the full beard was unheard of in the Americas.
To make it even more interesting some dates of destruction coincided with the landing of Hernan Cortez, a tall white man with a full beard. It scared the living daylights out of the Aztecs. No wonder really.
hahaha, no i see how a actually untakeable city (they only had to defend 3 roads) fell so easy to 120 spaniards. but when did the aztecs rose. 1000-1200 not earlier so it could have been possible that a irish sailor/priest landed there. the indians also had such stories.
[QUOTE] Conon394
i'm not saying that everything plato says is true, but most myths have a circle of truth in it. i think that if plato's sory has that, it must have been Thera who he used as atlantis. [QUOTE]
But that is in fact my point, with Atlantis we are not really talking about a myth that is broadly attested in either Greek or Egyptian folklore, but a Platonic allegory. Essentiality, it seems to me a bit arrogant on the part of modern society to allow that we can invent pure fiction, but apparently Plato could not, he must have had some basis for his story.
Also, Thera is hardly a major site (rather a small colony of Minoan Crete), and to the eyes of a 4th century Athenian it would hardly appear either powerful or advanced. One should not forget that Pericles was dismissive of the Iliad, why would Plato be impressed by Thera?
Well then sorry for that of the Cannabis but if it was cocaina then it's another story. I didn't remember very well the source, or probably i was high and flying (don't worry be happy... :smoking: ).
Anyway there're a bunch of misteries and conicidence beetween world mithology that are amazing and unexplicable until now by modern history.
PS:"Nope, 100% Platonic Allegory.
What I find interesting is that so many people out to find some kernel of historical basis for Plato's Atlantis. Why not his other allegories though, nobody seems to try to find a real event behind ‘the Cave' or locate the real ‘Ring of Gyges'"
This is what you said before. And i say you again, "the Cave" has not a single clue on location, you can take any cave and i'm sure that you will not see any man sitted and facing the wall (of course without life). Atlantis inspired so much because it would defy known history, and some sensational writers and pseudo-scientists (like the autor of "DaVinci's Code") can make some profit of it. Finding the cave will be like...ahhhh...mmm...ok...
In this link is some information (that says to have founded the real Atlantis) of a Brazilian scientist (on South China Sea):www.atlan.org This links put's the teory of Thera away (and with reason) and also the Caribean and North Pole teory.
Q: Why have so many different locations been identified with the site of Atlantis?
A: For one thing, Atlantis created a worldwide empire, and had colonies the world over. These colonies, as usual, attempted to duplicate the motherland, as colonists are wont to do. Secondly, for many reasons, the ancients hid away the true whereabouts of Atlantis, for fear that the empire, weakened, disorganized and destroyed by the cataclysm would become an easy prey of pirates, raiders and conquistadors of all sorts.
Also talks about another "mithical" place, Lemuria.
I don't beleave this guy, precisely for that question above, anyway let's see your opinion.
i'm not saying he must of had, if you read my post clearly you could see i said
i'm not saying that everything plato says is true, but most myths have a circle of truth in it. i think that if plato's story has that, it must have been Thera who he used as atlantis.
While I will admit that myths and legends may contain historical facts at their origins, I don’t think it is a truism. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, and some times a myth is just a fantasy. But the real issue, I think is really if any of Plato’s allegories qualify as Myths. In general they exist nowhere but in Plato’s works; his ring of Gyges story for example flatly contradicts the actually history of Gyges supplied by Herodotus. Seeing as there is no Atlantian cycle, no remains from Egypt to support Plato, I just do not see the need to go any farther in explanation than Plato made up a rather elegant story to demonstrate a point of his morality.Quote:
i'm not saying that everything plato says is true, but most myths have a circle of truth in it. i think that if plato's story has that, it must have been Thera who he used as atlantis.
Not all myths and legends are based in part on something factual; but significant historical events of great magnitude leave their mark on the societies which they affect.
Homer's Illiad was considered just a tale, until Schliemann used it to locate an actual city.
Greek myths of heroic races of giants and cyclops and all manner of fantastical creatures have been linked to the ancient Greeks' misinterpretation of fossils common in the area. When ancient farmers would find the skull of a mammoth, with the huge opening in middle of the face (where the trunk would attach) and no other noticable eye sockets (much smaller and on the sides of the skull), small wonder that they would dream up a gigantic cyclops and invent a race of titans to explain the bones. Fossils are numerous throughout the Aegean area, especially those of large mammals like the wooly mammoth and wooly rhinoceros. Fossil leg bones of such creatures have been found in Greek temples, apparently venerated as the bones of the pre-human, giant race of the mythical heroic age.
The myths of the flood probably relate to the coastal inundations after the end of the last ice age. Since the peak of the ice sheets, sea levels have risen around 120 meters. Most of that rise occuring in the centuries following the end of the last ice age, from 18000 to 6000 years or so ago; but since 3000 years ago or so, the sea level has been relatively constant. There is mounting evidence of a civilization which flourished in what is now the Gulf of Khambhat in India prior to the sea level rise. On Malta, the remains of a primitive cart tracks run from the ancient temple sites like Hagar Qim down to the sea; but they don't stop there. They continue on into the sea, where communities existed prior to the rising sea levels.
More specifically, the great flood (one of the most massive floods in geologic history) from the Bosporus into the valley which became the Black Sea around 7500 BCE, is probably the origin many of the flood myths of surrounding peoples, especially those in the Middle East.
All of these events have a profound and lasting effect on the civilizations which come later, through oral traditions. The eruption of the Thera volcano was one of the most massive eruptions ever; and it occurred while the surrounding areas were inhabited. And not just inhabited, but inhabited by a flourishing culture. Such an event must have had a huge impact on the peoples it affected. The myth of Atlantis fits the facts of Thera very well.
In this case, it seems much more likely that Plato's story has some basis in fact than not.
And that's exactly what i was trying to say. If there's any clues on location and some real facts and material evidence that could probe the existence of a lost civilization, then, why don't try to find it, just because there's an allegory of Plato relating to this events. I don't think so, as Aenlic said the "Iliad" until recently was just a legend now it isn't. Ok allegories are different from legends, but one fact remains true, both can be influenced by real events (while a legend must be)... I really don't see the big story behind adventorous discovery to state that you don't see the point on looking for it, it has nothing to do. And to repeat it again: Plato may state his point of view about morality, but that does not exclude the fact that he writted especifical things like the mention of the amalgamation, or the exact descriptions on sizes and distances. If you read others utopy you would notice that they give a description, but never say it's located on... or the size of that buildind is... or more importantly mention any amalgamation of metals totally unknown to ancient Europe. By the way the amalgamation of metals metioned by Plato is orichalcum (gold and copper only found in natural form on the Titicaca zone, Bolivia) and he said that they used it to cover the walls of the city. I don't think that you can compare this to "The Cave"...
I have the link of the American teory right here but is in spanish, hope somebody understands it (but as one could say "Atlantis" appears everywhere so): this has the basic scheme of all that Jim Allen (yankee) investigated- http://www.geocities.com/webatlantida/
http://www.colostate.edu/Depts/Entom...000/wells.htmlQuote:
Originally Posted by Kraxis
After mid-century, any archaeologist worried about money or career avoided looking at pre-Columbian contacts across saltwater ~:)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4153008.stmQuote:
Tsunami clue to 'Atlantis' found
Infographic
A submerged island that could be the source of the Atlantis myth was hit by a large earthquake and tsunami 12,000 years ago, a geologist has discovered.
Spartel Island now lies 60m under the sea in the Straits of Gibraltar, but some think it once lay above water.
The finding adds weight to a hypothesis that the island could have inspired the legend recounted by the philosopher Plato more than 2,000 years ago.
Evidence comes from a seafloor survey published in the journal Geology.
Marc-André Gutscher of the University of Western Brittany in Plouzané, France, found a coarse-grained sedimentary deposit that is 50-120cm thick and could have been left behind after a tsunami.
Shaken sediments
Dr Gutscher said that the destruction described by Plato is consistent with a great earthquake and tsunami similar to the one that devastated the city of Lisbon in Portugal in 1755, generating waves with heights of up to 10m.
Drawing of Atlantis
Some think the Atlantis legend was inspired by real events
The thick "turbidite" deposit results from sediments that have been shaken up by underwater geological upheavals.
It was found to date to around 12,000 years ago - roughly the age indicated by Plato for the destruction of Atlantis, Dr Gutscher reports in Geology.
Spartel Island, in the Gulf of Cadiz, was proposed as a candidate for the origin of the Atlantis legend in 2001 by French geologist Jacques Collina-Girard.
It is "in front of the Pillars of Hercules", or the Straits of Gibraltar, as Plato described. The philosopher said the fabled island civilisation had been destroyed in a single day and night, disappearing below the sea.
Sedimentary records reveal that events like the 1755 Lisbon earthquake occur every 1,500 to 2,000 years in the Gulf of Cadiz.
But the mapping of the island carried out by Dr Gutscher failed to turn up any manmade structures and also showed that the island was much smaller than previously believed.
This could make it less likely that the island was inhabited by a civilisation.
Yes but there're some problems with the mention of the orichalcum and on the size. Most likely Plato was refering to a continent, not to an island.
hmmm, yes he did. i dont know it anymore, besides from the dates and other slight problems the /south/-america theory seem plausible to me.
That's the problem, it appears that the lost city is in two places at the same time: South America and South China Sea. The two are well supported, but the second plans to create a web of human development from Atlantis like the origin of all.... That's because i like more the other.
Yeah, the second guy is pretty arrogant, looking at the wording. I feel like he's a fanatic of some kind. Though the South China sea was clearly a land when the last Ice age lasted, I didn't see him present any sign of plausible "civilization" though. No underwater ruins, no artifacts, no possible "fossils" of cities you usually have as some sort of "rock formations". It would certainly be inhabited, being a lowland in which rivers would naturally run while it was above water but a legendary ultimate "first" civilization? India itself had underwater cities near its shore, and I don't think they were counted as possible Atlantis candidates.Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulforged
but i dont know for sure, bolivia that means they crossed or the andes/amazon or the sailed around the cape. there are no messages about that. it might be the mayans or their ancesters they encountered
There is also the idea of Antarctica. It did actually have a large part of it icefree about 12000 years ago, with forests and so on.
That idea also supports the Atlanteans being the cradle of civilization that brought it to all corners when their own land was lost.
Quite interesting theory, and a bright one too as those that have brought it out can be certain that they need never fear proof that it was not Antarctica (the ice). But on the other hand they can never prove their theory either...
But it is certainly one of the more... hmm... lets just say spectacular... theories.
yeah it is, but somehow it doesnt seem....oke. there is just sumthing wrong that i cant explain. i do believe that africa was the cradle of human (not necisarily civilisation).
but it atleast is alot better than MU from the Lemuria theory with Dee (or sumthing like it) to be the egyptian Isis. mhuauahahaha
Even if all if bullcookies, that misterious lost civilization near Titicaca (i really don't remember the name that the discoverers gived to them) really were caplable of treating niquel, and the formations of orichalcum too...
also the atlantians worshipped the bull as did the minoans. weird huh
On the history channel they are showing some interesting undersea pictures from Yonaguni Island in Japan.
Here is a site that has pictures of what is currently on the History Channel
http://www.morien-institute.org/yonaguni.html
Could this be the source myth of Atlantis? Is this possibly real or is it just another wishful fanasty of Atlantis.
it looks interesting but it isnt West. i dont know about this, but it is a Sunken City...
c'mon, a natural formation, i dont buy that, alien oke man made oke, natural not oke
The Viracochas, The Tiahuanaco´s lost civilization.Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulforged
Yes that's it!! Thank you for posting it.
Antirtica:- The page of this brazilian scientists explains why this isn't a possibility.
PS: I really don't know what did i mean with that word "bullcookies" in my last post, where did it came from??
I edited the profanity in your post - "cookies" is a nice substitute for the word you used.Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulforged
Oh i understand... :embarassed: ~DQuote:
Originally Posted by Gregoshi