Countdown to Open Beta - Pahlava

Greetings Europa Barbarorum fans!


We’re back again, and those of you who have been keeping track know that we are almost out of factions too! But we’ve got a good one for you today.

The EB team is proud to present:

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We are nomads, yet not for long.

We live below the Amu-Darya River and around the grasslands of the Karakum, yet not for long.

Our neighbours are few, but not to be trusted. To the north and west, the Sauromatae wander, kin to the Skythians. Their eyes are turned to their south and west, but they might find lands to conquer in the east too. Many times have we contested with them for grazing rights and they have not forgotten our sending them flying back across the Amu-Darya. To the south and east, the Seleukid Empire stretches along our border. Our young warriors have made many forays into the lands of the southerners, returning with much loot.Even out brothers, the Dahae wait for us to show weakness, ever ready to pounce. We will lead them to victory, but trust them? Never!

If you are to take on the Seleukid Empire, and one day you will have to, you must attack when the time is right. If the Seleukids have no enemies, except you, they will send their great phalanx- armies to our lands.
If they are at war on multiple fronts however, they might not have enough soldiers to spare, so we can grab more land from them. And the Seleukid Empire is wide and the eyes of its rulers can only see so far. Their subjects do not hold fast to their vows of loyalty and this will be our chance. Revolts will flare up in its distant satrapies, some which conveniently lie near us and could be exploited to our advantage.
And rumours from the East have reached our ears, that might benefit us. The Greek satrap of Baktria lusts for a kingship of his own. And he has soldiers enough to break away from Seleukeia. Should these two ‘Successors’ fight each other we can profit. Their armies will be depleted and some of their provinces will have fewer defenders.

As a leader of the Pahlav, you will command different troops. The clans provide skilled mounted archers, and infantry levy, while the nobility among our people will provide you with heavily armoured cataphracts, trained to charge the enemy knee-to-knee. In battle, your horse archers will pepper the enemy with arrows, probing for any weak spots in their battle line for your cataphracts to charge through.

Our future is to the south, in the rich lands of Persia. Decades ago Iskander came from the west, defeating the massed host of Persia in two big battles and putting an end to the once mighty Persian Empire. The people to the south, might not look at us with favourable eyes, indeed their former kings called us Dahae, or robbers, but we share more with them, than the Greeks do. If the Seleukid Empire collapses, they might be 'persuaded' to accept a Pahlavan king who brings order, and restores the temples of their fathers, and brings honour to the teachings of the good prophet Zarathustra. Indeed, worship of Ahura-Mazda might benefit a Pahlav King, or perhaps...a Pahlav Shahanshah? Without armies, the Persians won't object.

Maybe you can be a new Kurush, a ‘Pahlavan’ Iskander. Follow in the footsteps of the conquerors. The lands to the south and east are there for the taking, you just have to know when and where to strike, if you wish to keep any spoils of war.

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In 247 BC, Aršak, or Arsaces as he was later known, leader of the Parni, a branch of the Dahae Scyths, was crowned king. This name may very well be his clan title rather than his given name. As we see in later Parthian times, the tradition of having a “family” or tribal name was quite common among the Parthian nobles. Families of Suren, Karen, Espahbad, Naudar, and other Parthian noble families all carried their personal names as well as the above family names. Additionally, the tradition of having a regal name was also common from the Achaemenid times, as almost all Achaemenid emperors after Darius II seem to have chosen a dynastic name upon their accession.

It was he who led his people south and overthrew the Seleukid governor of Parthia in 238 BC, this same governor, who was himself in revolt against his overlords. He would establish a kingdom that would last for almost 500 years. At the height of their power, the Parthians were second only to Rome and were the only civilized nation able to stand up to her.

Parthia's beginnings were not easy. Arsaces I, initially controlled little more than Parthia, and neighbouring Hyrcania and they faced vigorous Seleukid attempts to recapture those lost dominions. In 226 BCE and again in 210 BCE, the Seleukids invaded in force. The Parthians retreated before them, only to return seizing yet more land when Seleukid attention fatally drifted towards the Hellenic western part of their empire. By the mid century things had changed. After a long war, the Parthian king Mithradates I had conquered Media and invaded Mesopotamia. This time, the Seleukid counterattack was fought and totally defeated. The Seleukid king Demetrios II, was captured and held prisoner, and upon his death Mithradates I ruled over Parthia, Hyrcania, Media, Babylonia, Assyria, Elymais and Persis. Parthia was now to be a world power.

When the Parthian kingdom was founded in the mid 3rd century BC, it was made up of a small Scythian tribe, the Parni, and it’s army was relatively small consisting chiefly of horse archers and the better armoured tribal chieftains. These skilled riders were served as part of the tribal host only in times of war. When the war was over, these warriors returned home with their loot to their everyday lives. As a result, their concepts of war was confined to raids and counter raids. Through out this period the Parthians remained a semi- nomadic people who made their living from horse and cattle breeding. However, contact with Persian style of warfare and the changing needs of a society no longer based on a nomadic lifestyle brought new concepts of warfare. This settled existence not only eroded their steppe culture but probably caused a rapid erosion of their horse and archery skills as well.

Theoretically the Parthian king could call upon all those within the realm to serve in his armies. The Arascid king's major stumbling block was his own Azad nobles. The royal council was comprised the representatives of the Parthian clans, towns and vassal states. The only obligation some of these vassal states had to the Arascid dynasty was supplying troops for military service. However this council was effectively controlled by the lords of the Seven Great Clans. As a result the kings relied heavily on their own hereditary lands for the core of their armies. This was supplemented by Sakae nomadic mercenaries and those Nobles of the realm with a vested interest of advancing their fortunes by such service.

Parthian armies had to operate in all types of terrain and climates from the hot flatlands of Aryavarta which would later be called India, the arid central plateau of Iran, the cold northern steppes and the high mountains of Armenia and Gandhara. Their enemies varied from slow-moving pikemen of the Hellenic armies to their nimble and swift kin from the eastern steppe. Parthian military thinking was therefore based on the ideas of mobility, adaptability and self-sufficiency, it could be no other way. The plan of any battle was the Cataphract charge, a massed attack knee-to-knee by heavy cavalry, the light horse archers supported this by probing for weak points to be exploited with concentrated archery. The archers did terrible damage to massed troops and this would force the enemy to disperse. If they did so, they left themselves exposed to the charge of the heavy Cataphracts. With the light and heavy cavalry deployed, the Pahlavan cavalry was able to bring down of one form of attack, or the other as the situation dictated. It was this tactic that shattered the Roman legions at the battle of Carrhae.

The tribal host formed the bulk of the Parthian army and would have provided the bulk of the Hamspah or levies, mounted archers and the infantry levy. Each clan Family mustered under their Wuzurgan grandees and the lesser Azadan leaders, bringing with them retainers from their lands and these would fight together in the same units. They used probably the best weapon for the horseman, which was the composite horse bow. This was similar to the simple bow but used multiple types of wood, horn and sinew to produce a stronger bow with a greater draw weight, the force built up in the string that will propel the arrow forward to its target.

The wars between the Greeks and the Persians and final Alexandrian conquest showed the Pahlava that lightly armed infantry could not stop heavy, well-trained, infantry of the type employed by the Greeks and later Romans. They themselves had a healthy contempt for such light infantry in their many raids of more civilized lands. These heavy infantry could only be countered with heavily armed cataphracts and tough veteran horse archers able to cause disorder in the massed ranks and then attacking vulnerable points with archery and lance. This was a lesson they learned well and would prove on the field of battle. The Romans and Greeks came to respect the Parthian in a way they never respected the Persian.

The Parthian Kingdom was smaller than that of the Achaemenid Persians, and closer in many ways to later european feudal states. There was for example no standing army, just as in feudal europe. There were of course the garrisons of the Hellenic Polis and vital forts were garrisoned. The armed retinues of the Wuzurgan grandees, the Azadan minor nobility, Zandbed and Dehbed tribal chiefs, along with the local kings, Šahrdaran, and princes of royal blood, the Waspuhragan.

The Great King as Sar-Xwaday, Overlord, appealed to his subordinate kings, the Šahrdaran, the Azad nobles, garrison commanders, and most importantly the tribal lords to muster what they could and bring them to an appointed place at a given time. The assembled host would be placed under the command of a Spahbed or general, trusted by the Great King. The core of the army, or Spad was the feudal or tribal nobility. Accustomed to hard riding from an early age and skilled in archery and skirmishing, the Pahlavan cavalry would come to be known as something to fear. Their name echoes in eternity as the term Pahlavan, means Hero in Persian.

The Pahlavan nation was ever under threat, and they never suffered for a lack of enemies. The North Iranian nomads, the Dahae, Sakae, and Sauromatae constantly threatened the eastern borders while in the west first the Seleukids and then the Romans were ever ready for full scale war. Few nations have ever faced such a combination of enemies and finding an army that would both was no easy matter. Rapid mobility was essential for no slow moving army could possibly match the light cavalry of the nomads to the north. Infantry were not very useful in such a situation and not worth what Romans or Greeks paid for them. The answer was the Asabaran, pronounced Asavaran in Parthian. The Parthians did have foot soldiers and when large numbers of Greeks or Romans were captured they had no hesitation in putting them to use. They could however never be more than a small part of the Parthian army. They could not afford to maintain a massive army of heavy infantry to counter the nomadic cavalry, nor could the Romans, who when faced with this same situation, took to the same solution.

The mainstay of the infantry were foot archers. These foot archers almost certainly represented the poorer elements of the various infantry levies of Parthia. The tradition of mounted archery in Parthia and the northern steppe peoples makes it almost inevitable that a massed levy would produce significant numbers of foot archers as well.

When Persia was conquered by Alexander the Great, Alexander originally attempt to bring a fusion of Persian and Greek culture. However this attempt at a fusion was to collapse upon his death, and lead to the alienation of the Persian elite and the rejection of Greek culture by the Persians. In Persia kingship and religion were tied together in a way that the Greeks poorly understood. The world had been created by Ahura Mazda and it was he who ordained the monarch. There were those who responded to the appeal of Hellenism but as elsewhere it was associated with a secular spirit repulsive to most near eastern peoples. However, it is also true that Alexander destroyed Zoroastrian sanctuaries, persecuted priests and destroyed religious writings. In doing so the 'accursed Alexander' created an army of priests who saw Hellenism as the enemies. In addition to their religious duties, these priests served as judges, tax collectors and scribes. They were in a unique position to do harm to the Greek cause in Iran.

Traditional Zoroastrianism was revived slowly under the Parthian, or Arsacid, dynasty, which ruled from about 250 bc to ad 224. By the time of the Sassanid dynasty, from ad 224 to 651, Zoroastrianism had become the popular religion among most groups in Iran and Central Asia and was practiced from the Middle East to the western border of China.

Their empire began to decline in the 2nd century AD, as Parthia was chronically weakened by internal struggle, and the rebellion of Ardashir of Persis in 220 AD sounded its death knell. Such bloody conflicts were not uncommon within the ruling Arsacid family and the loyalty of the great noble lords was often dubious. The last Parthian king, Artabanos IV, was killed in the battle of Hormuzdagan in 224 AD and Ardashir was crowned as the first Sassanid king. The first acts of the Sassanid dynasty was the systematic destruction of everything Parthian and under the hammer and fire of Sassanid fury went the records of what had once been a proud nation.

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-Unit Descriptions-

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Dehbed Asavara

The Dehbeds are noble armoured cavalry, using the Kontos in a two-handed grip and able to charge home if needed. They rely on the composite horse bow kept in a Gorytos on the left side to weaken their enemy before closing for melee. They can afford a better class of equipment than typical horse archers, including a scale corselet split at the sides that hangs to the rider’s waist when he is in the saddle. They also carry lances, and are not afraid to close in for melee if the opportunity presents itself, but are sensible enough not to hurl themselves into the fray against unbroken infantry. The Dehbeds are much cheaper to raise and maintain than Cataphracts or Asavaran and form the majority of shock cavalry. The Dehbed cavalry is a very flexible force, being extremely mobile and able both to provide concentrated archery or when required to charge, fully able to drive home an attack.

Historically, the Dehbeds were the lesser nobility and village chieftains not yet having risen to their more prominent role under the Sassanids, men who led their Bandaka retainers to war. These units of the lesser aristocracy were composed of men of well above average station. The Dehbeds were members of the Azad nobility of Parthia. Descendents of the lords of smaller clans and the chieftains of tribal times, they formed the warbands of the great feudal lords (azad). They were a class of noble warriors, their vassalage to the Parthian King expressed in their duty and their privilege of serving in the feudal cavalry. They would evolve into the Dihqans of Sassanid times.


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Mada Asabara

These cavalry are raised from the old Persian estates not seized by the Macedonian invaders. They are equipped with a cavalry spear and the single bladed Tabar axe with a vicious back-spike, well capable of penetrating heavy armour. The spear could be couched as a lance, but is more usually used overarm as a thrusting weapon. The shield used by these horsemen is the crescent-shaped Scythian Taka shield. They ride Median horses, noted for their size and strength. Although not particularly tall, about 14 or 15 hands, they have large heads and strong necks with most being chestnuts, browns or blacks. All in all, they constitute a useful, reliable medium cavalry best used for flank or rear attacks.

Historically, these noble cavalrymen were descended from the Huvaka, Kinsmen cavalry who had faced Alexander the Great during late imperial times and had served the Achaemenid kingdom of Persia. The Parthians came to Persia as invaders, but invaders of Iranian blood and language. Sharing a common culture and a common enemy, the Parthians quickly made common cause with the old Persian nobility, taking hold of an advantage that the Seleukids, intent on Hellenizing Iran, never could. The Parthians now had an additional source of cavalry, those from the old Achaemenid imperial core regions of Persis and Media.

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Mada Nizak Asabara

The ancient homeland of the Medes gives rise to these light cavalrymen whose first weapon of choice is the javelin. These horsemen are skilled at skirmishing and are also adept at closing in for the kill against disordered enemies. Mounted on a swift horse, armed with nothing but a small crescent-shaped 'Taka' shield, short spear, and a handful of javelins these swift moving horsemen can be deadly.

Historically, the Iranian people of the Mada, Medes to the Greeks, inhabited this rich land, a high mountainous plateau and once the centre of a powerful empire. Older than Parthia, older than the Achaemenid Empire, Media has always held centre place in any of the great kingdoms of the Iranian lands. The rich pastures of Media and Persis were not conductive to the free ranging lifestyle of the nomad. These light horsemen from settled populations took the place of nomadic light cavalry.


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Thanvare Payahdag

These foot archers almost certainly represented the poorer elements of the various infantry levies of Parthia. These men are skirmishers only and not inclined to close with enemy troops. The station usually assigned to these Parthian bowmen is behind the first line of spearmen and forward of them in skirmishing lines. These troops can be vital to any army, harassing and confusing enemy troops as they advanced, and shielding the flanks of the battle line from light cavalry and other enemy skirmishing units.

Historically, the Achaemenid Persian army relied heavily on its archers as the mainstay of their infantry. In a similar vein, the Parthians enlist these same archers for their own use. Parthian infantry were mostly archers and skirmishers, intended to screen the cavalry while it deployed for battle. The tradition of mounted archery in Parthia and the northern steppe peoples makes it almost inevitable that a massed levy would produce significant numbers of foot archers as well.

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Eransahr Nizagan

The Eransahr Nizagan are recruited from the eastern reaches of the Parthian domain as well as the more settled regions of Persis and Media. Armed with an 8' spear and a composite short bow, these infantry are well suited to facing nomadic enemies. They can either engage in archery duels and expect to win or fight as close order troops which nomadic cavalry is often reluctant to engage. They are versatile and can be dangerous if used properly. They are however no match for Graeco-Roman armoured infantry and against such enemies they should rely on archery to inflict harm on their foes. They can hold the line against weaker infantry and cavalry but they cannot be relied upon to put up an extended fight if the situation is not in their favour. Individually, they are skilled but not outstanding warriors, but their versatility ensures that they will be useful to any commander.

The vast Iranian plateau gave rise to a form of, dual-armed infantry rarely seen in the west. However, such troops combining spear and bow were very common in the Iranian world, forming the backbone of the tribal infantry and a major part of the Parthian infantry levy. They could also fight for Hellenistic overlords, such as those in Bactria, after the Macedonian conquest of the Achaemenid Empire.

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Zradha Pahlavans

This heavy Cataphract cavalry provides the hammer which forces infantry to stand their formations, providing the horse archers with the perfect target. If the enemy should break ranks the shock tactics employed by the Parthians on their armoured mounts were lightning quick and brutally efficient. These are the men that in Parthian armies were expected to deliver the crushing blow that brought victory. The arms they wield are the lance for shock action and the heavy mace to bludgeon armoured opponents. They are superbly equipped with a helm and attached scale aventail. A corselet of iron scale armour would protect the torso and laminated (banded) arm guards would emerge from the shoulder, completely encasing the arms down to the wrist. Thigh guards and leg defences of banded armour would be attached to quilted cuisses secured to the belt with leather thongs.

Historically, a Cataphract charge was generally less impetuous than the charges of the feudal knights of Western Europe, but very effective due to the discipline and the concentrated mass of troops deployed. Any army consistently faced with the light horse tactics used by the steppe peoples tended to adopt a very cautious approach to battle.Zradha Pahlavans means armoured heroes, and the cataphracts were at Carrhae and in every Parthian army recorded.

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Azad Asavaran

The Asavaran are the elite cavalry of the Azad nobility. On the battlefield Asavaran nobles are often used to break through an enemy line after it has been weakened by archery, carrying all before them in a disciplined, dangerous charge. They are equipped as armoured lancers wearing heavy bronze scale corselets, and trained from birth to charge with lances in a tight knee-to-knee formation. Laminated vambraces would protect their arms and legs, a flexible armour of overlapping leather or bronze bands They do not bother with shields as both hands are needed to manipulate the two handed Kontos lance and the straight Iranian longsword. These Parthian nobles are superb horsemen, who can put most infantry units to flight. Mounted on the strong Nisean breed of horse these heavy cavalrymen, while not the equal of the Cataphracts, cannot be ignored.

Historically, the Asavaran used tactics of speed and manoeuvrability, especially in the charge which was carried out at a full gallop in tight formations. They wore cloaks that could also be used for concealment, as they were at least less conspicuous than the armour underneath and fit in well with the brightly outfitted horse archers. They had large flat golden collars around their necks, marking them as Parthian nobles. The leather bridles and harness trappings would be red or light brown colour and the bit of iron or bronze. Large saddle cloths were brightly coloured red or crimson, heavily embroidered with geometric designs or animal motifs.

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Nizag Gund

These poorly trained, levy infantry are supplied by the great nobles (azads) from their estates in the more settled regions of the Persian Empire. They are armed with an infantry spear and brown, leather-covered, wicker shield, a smaller version of the old spara (gerron) of imperial days, and a short sword or axe. Their primary order of battle would consist of spearmen fighting in ordered ranks. Groups of spearmen such as these are trained to form rows across and files deep and to march in step. Grouping together bolsters morale and the shield wall helps to neutralize arrows. However, the oft-repeated myth of 'roped or chained' Persian troops is an invention of literature. The Arabic term 'silsilah' is very likely a poetic device meant to imply soldiers organized into close order units. The same term is used to refer to both Sassanid Persian and Byzantine cavalry, neither of which could have conceivably been physically tied together in groups!

Historically, the Parthian Nobility displayed the same distrust of armed peasantry as many other feudal elites, The Nizag Gund were as close as they came to putting that uncomfortable idea into practice, but these foot troops were generally drawn from the poorer classes of Parthian society and were often badly equipped and barely trained. When the indifferent quality of these troops was added to the pace of Parthian warfare, it meant that the Nizag Gund would rarely be committed to heavy action. Their duties would generally include garrison and baggage guard, but they could also form a spear wall in pitched battles.

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Pahlava Shivatir

These cavalrymen are recruited from the clan warriors of Parthia, and originally come from the steppes of Central Asia. Although they now live in Iran, they still learn to ride as soon as they can walk like their ancestors. They are expert archers and expert horsemen, being able to shoot a bow accurately from horseback, and they are the masters of the ‘Parthian shot’, being able to shoot backwards at full gallop. They are best used at weakening enemy formations so that the heavy cavalry can finish them off. Almost impossible to destroy and unwilling to come to grips with well ordered infantry these horsemen use marauder tactics to bring down their enemies. Dense formations of infantry are their favoured target.

Historically, horse archers formed the backbone of all Parthian armies. Led by the Dehbed minor nobility into battle, these Bandaka (bondsmen or retainers) rely on missile fire as their primary asset. They used probably the best weapon for the light horseman, which was the composite horse bow. It was similar to the simple self bow but used multiple layers of wood, horn and sinew to produce a stronger bow with a greater draw weight—the force built up in the string that will propel the arrow forward to its target— for a small size.


And many more who would find their way into the employ of the Pahlavan kings.

Daha Tazig
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Saka Aspam
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Daha Asabara
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Harauvatish Asabara
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MITHRA

The history of Mithras stretches back 4000 years and was once a rival to the faith of the Christians. Christianity had one great advantage, it preached the forgiveness of sinners. And it was a great sinner himself, Emperor Constantine that decreed that Christianity was to be the state religion for Rome. The rest is history.

In Persia itself Mithra was the protector God of the Iranian nomads and held a major place of honour until the dualistic reforms of Zarathustra. Ahura-Mazda, god of the skies, and Ahriman, or Angra Mainyu, god of darkness formed the two halves of this dualism. The reforms of the prophet Zarathustra left Mithras with the role of 'Judger of Souls', God of Truth, and the Lord of Heavenly Light. His role was to conduct the souls of the Ashavan, the good and righteous to paradise. As a protector god he shielded the followers of Asha, truth and punishes the followers of the lie. In this connection he is associated with warriors and was adopted by the Romans as Sol Invictus, a god of soldiers, he was to the Persians however mostly a god of contracts. Indeed his very name is the Avestan word for pact, contract, or covenant. The handshake arose out of the beliefs of those who worshipped him as a token of friendship and a gesture to show that they were unarmed. This same handshake found its way west with the Roman soldiers who worshipped Mithras and soon spread throughout the Mediterranean and Europe.

Mithras became the divine representative of Ahura-Mazda on earth, and was directed by Ahura-Mazda to protect the righteous from the demonic forces of Angra Mainyu. His followers promoted an ethic of brotherhood in order to unify the forces of good to fight evil wherever it might be found. He carries a spear of pure silver, wears a golden cuirass, and is armed with golden shafted arrows, and his mace is the symbol of his unrelenting war against evil.

Mithras was born of Anahita, an immaculate virgin mother worshipped throughout the Iranian lands. As a fertility goddess Anahita was said to have conceived the Saviour from the seed of Zarathustra preserved in the waters of Lake Hamun in the Persian province of Sistan. Mithras remained celibate throughout his life, and valued self-control, renunciation and resistance to sensuality among his worshippers. The Persian crown, from which all present day crowns are derived, was designed to represent the golden sun-disc sacred to Mithras.

There were seven degrees of initiation representing the seven celestial bodies.

The Raven was the first, the symbol of death, the Roman corax under Mercury. In ancient Persia it was a custom to expose dead bodies on the Dakhmas, or Towers of Silence to be eaten by ravens and vultures. These vulture towers follow an ancient practice of the Magi and to this day remain a part of Parsis life in parts of India and Pakistan. Angra Mainyu, the god of darkness by his free will chose to do evil and in this way allowed death to enter the world. The earth as part of Ahura-Mazda is seen as good and to bury the dead who are the work of Angra Mainyu in the good earth would be a defilement. The initiate would be baptized and be reborn into the spiritual path of Mithras.

The Mithrakana was the prime festival of Mithra, and celebrated on the autumn equinox. Only the legitimate rulers of the Iranians were privileged to possess the Kavaya Hvarenah, or Divine Glory of Mithra, which would abandon a king if he strayed from the path of righteousness. It was for this reason that many of the Hellenic rulers were never seen as true rulers of the Iranian people.

Remains of Mithraic temples can be found throughout the Roman Empire, from Palestine across north of Africa, and across central Europe to northern England. The largest of these Mithtraeum's was built in western Persia at Kangavar, dedicated to 'Anahita, the Immaculate Virgin Mother of the Lord Mithras'. Other Mithraic temples were built in Northern and in Central Iran the temple of Khorheh lies in ruins near present-day Mahallat. Mithraic mausoleums and shrines have been found at Nisa, Dura Europos and Hatra as well.

ANAHITA

Anahita, the Immaculate Virgin Mother of the Lord Mithras

Ardvi Sura Anahita the guardian of the Zaothra, undefiled waters, and is the source of all waters upon the earth. She was seen by the Iranians as clean, untainted, innocent, and pure. She was the Golden Mother of Mithras, the Warrior Maiden, and as guardian of the waters, she was the goddess of plants, fertility, and green things. She was the guardian protectress, the gentle goddess she is associated with rivers and all flowing things, from whence comes all fertility.

As the Warrior Maiden and protectress, soldiers would pray to her for mercy and courage before battle. She is sometimes depicted as driving a chariot drawn by four white horses, representing Wind, Rain, Clouds, and Hail, and the Barsom, or sacred bundle of twigs, and white heifers are offered in her honour as guardian of pure waters. As the Golden Mother, Anahita is portrayed as a virgin, young and beautiful, wearing a golden kerchief, gold-sandals, gold earrings, and a jeweled diadem, and wrapped in a golden embroidered cloak adorned with thirty otter skins. The dove and the peacock were sacred to her.

Anahita, was widely worshiped in Achaemenid Persia and many cities held shrines, statues, and temples of her. Her faith spread, and Anahita was also widely worshiped in various parts of Armenia, Asia Minor and the West. The temple of Anahita at Ecbatana was a sprawling palace, according to classic historians, built of cedar or cypress covered by plates of silver and gold. Every tile of the floors was made of silver, and the whole building was apparently faced with bricks of silver and gold.

VERETHRAGNA

The Persian god of victory and the personification of aggressive triumph.

Verethragna bears the ‘divine glory’ of Ahura Mazda and it is beneath his wings and the solar disc of Mithra that the shâhân shâh, 'king of kings', would find shelter. Thus did Verethragna come, bearing the Kavaya Hvarenah, "divine Glory", the divine light of Ahura Mazda that would light the way for the ancient kings of Iran. Without it they were lesser in the eyes of their people. To the Parthians this was Xwarrah, "Royal Glory" for they too held Verethragna in great honour and saw him as giving the Divine Sanction of Kingship. He is the warrior with a golden blade.

The falcon is associated with the fortune of the king and is known as the bird of the warrior Verethragna. This Royal Falcon bore the crown, or Diadem to all Iranian kings, becoming the bestower of fortune. Verethragna was the slayer of the terrible dragon Verethra. His name, Verethragna, literally means 'defeater of the enemy'. The raven too, a symbol of death, was sacred to Verethragna, as it was to Mithra.

He is the God of Atash Verethragna, the most sacred of all fires. It is a combination of all the lesser fires. In modern Persian this is the Behram fire.

These fires as described in the Avesta are Adar Shaidan, Adar Khoreh, Adar Mino Karko, Adar Farnbag, Adar Farah, Adar Gushpasp, Adar Khorda, Adar Burzen Meher, Atash Dara, Atash Berezo-Savangh, Atash Vohu Fryana, Atash Urvazishta, Atash Vazishta, Atash Spenishta, Atash Nairoghanga, and the king’s personal fire of worship, Atash Verethragna. It is to Verethragna that the greatest fire temples are dedicated.

AHURA MAZDA

Ahura-Mazda is the Wise Lord. The place of Ahura-Mazda is that of supreme god of all goodness, whereas the god Ahriman is the ultimate embodiment of evil. Ahura Mazda created the universe and maintains the cosmic order of truth (asha) and light against the forces of darkness and deception (the LIE)led by Ahriman (Angra Mainyu). He has chosen good and in so doing has achieved completeness and immortality; a state of radiant happiness (Ushta) through illumination and enlightenment. Ahura Mazda is opposed to all evil and suffering.

The origin of evil is traced in Zoroaster's system to an exercise of free will at the beginning of creation, when the twin sons of Ahura Mazda entered into an eternal rivalry. One, Spenta Mainyu (Bounteous Spirit), chose good, thus acquiring the attributes of truth, justice, and life. The other, Angra Mainyu (Destructive Spirit), chose evil and its attendant forces of destruction, injustice, and death. The world is thus divided between the dominion of the good and that of evil. To the Iranian the lie is the same as evil, and truth is the same as good. Man is ultimately responsible for his own fate. Ahura Mazda is not Omniscient because although He is aware of all that is happening, he does not know all that shall be. He has given man free will and this means he cannot know what man will choose. It is for mans own conscience and Mithra to judge. Our choices are truly our own, and the only thing that God has determined is the final judgement.

Ahura Mazda is surrounded by six beings which the Avesta calls amesha spentas, "beneficent immortals." These are Spenta Mainyu (Holy Spirit), of Asha Vahishta (Justice, Truth), of Vohu Manah (Righteous Thinking), Khshathra Vairya (Desirable Dominion), Haurvatat (Wholeness), and Ameretat (Immortality), and Spenta Armaiti, (Devotion).

The world of his followers (the ashavan) come closer to Ahura Mazda through fire which is the physical perception of Ahura Mazda. A Zoroastrian achieves spiritual completeness through free will and his own choices. Choosing to do good, and to avoid doing wrong, this is the path to salvation. It is his duty to fight evil through good thoughts, good words and good deeds.

https://img211.imageshack.us/img211/...arthia18yq.gif

In another special glimpse of some of the new things we have in store for you, the Pahlava have certain goals they will try to obtain in the course of the game, one of the chief of which is the imperative to retake the lands the invading Yonaw had seized from their ancestors. If you accomplish this, there will, of course, be great rewards:
https://img81.imageshack.us/img81/77...vent4yo.th.jpg

And we have a couple of buildings that were very important to the Pahlava to show you in this preview:
http://img175.exs.cx/img175/538/pasa...een13jq.th.jpg
http://img10.exs.cx/img10/8296/parsascreen12kd.th.jpg

https://img211.imageshack.us/img211/...arthia18yq.gif

Plus, the campaign map with factions released so far:
https://img323.imageshack.us/img323/...ofar0rb.th.jpg

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And of course, a little bonus for the horse lover in you:
https://img49.imageshack.us/img49/39...a1small9ul.jpg

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We hope you’ve enjoyed this week’s update!

Please note that unless stated otherwise, ALL pictures shown in our previews are of works in progress. We continue to improve on all parts of EB, and we will continue to do so long after our initial release.

Since some areas where these news items are posted cannot handle wide images, we appreciate your restraint from quoting full-size images.

As always, if you have questions or comments, the best place to post them is here, where the EB team is most active:

Europa Barbarorum ORG forum

Europa Barbarorum TWC forum

We give special thanks to Imageshack that provides us with a simple, foolproof, and free way to show you all these pictures each week.


Have a great day!


Sincerely,

The Europa Barbarorum team.

that was mad fast! O.O

Yes!

So, I see you're now going to stick to this one preview a day schedule.

Very nice...

Congrats ~:cheers:

I loved the archers ~D


kayapó

ps. Why are the "Azad Asavaran" holding their kontos over the shoulders?

ps2. Are you guy going to include the translation of the units names in their description? That would be a nice "teaching" touch. :book: Also including the right way to say each name would be nice (specially for those germanic names). ~;)

ps3. Does anyone else want to play this faction first? My favorite so far.

~:eek: God damn, Khelvan- did you get any sleep last week? Two previews in three days is pretty impressive.

Anyway, the preview looks great, as always. I just have a quick question to whomever has been keeping track of all the material here: what factions are left? I was just trying to remember if Armenia was going to be in, or if it was replaced.

Excellent preview, as always.

Just one question- would any fans be willing to band together and make a simple mod for EB (after it's released of course) that roughly translates unit names etc into English, for those of us chaps not fluent in ancient Parthian (Pahlavan?) or indeed, any ancient faction ingame? Call me a simple minded freak, but I'd rather mouseover a unit to recruit and see Noble Archers rather than *warning: Over-dramatation ahead, used for humorous purposes only* Alflahivetha Obsoctomonix Dectrathapaos. It's just so much simpler when deciding what unit to recruit or finding out what exactly the unit would be good for in the battlefields. I know you can mostly tell by looks, but when you can just see Levy Infantry and Trained Milita (bad examples) rather than squinting at Arheflegia Dentramentoi and Frenheimhad Trachtemectia... well it's easier on the mind. Hehe.

Note: Tha above was not intended to flame EB at all.

well done. i hav run out of things to say for y'all work. fantastic.

EDIT:by the way khelvan, wat is the deal with your sig? occultus? wat is this? i hav never heard of anything along these lines for EB. i am assuming it is a feature of EB, or a faction or watever.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kayapó

ps. Why are the "Azad Asavaran" holding their kontos over the shoulders?

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That is one of the idle animations we made for the xyston.

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Originally Posted by Mr Jones

by the way khelvan, wat is the deal with your sig? occultus? wat is this?

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It's a secret.

*giggle*

Very nice. The range of cavalry and other troops available make it look jolly interesting.

Hunter

Very nice. Although it seems as if you have several different kinds of horse archers. Maybe im missing something because i dont know their stats but that seems a bit redundant to me.

Awesome preview though. Very informative.

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Originally Posted by shifty157

Very nice. Although it seems as if you have several different kinds of horse archers. Maybe im missing something because i dont know their stats but that seems a bit redundant to me.

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Yeah, I know. It kinda sucks. I mean it's like having to create several types of foot spear units for those pesky Greeks, or infantry sword units for those silly Celts. ~;)

Well you did it... I can read the other previews and oooh and ahhh but once I saw those Horse Archers and Cataphratcs... I cried in the fetal position in a corner for 4 hours thinking of having to wait to use them... The thought of waiting it's so painf... I think I'm going to cry again... :sick: Good Job :beam:

WOW, great preview!

:jawdrop: :jawdrop: :jawdrop:

Awesome preview! Can"t wait to use these Cataphracts! :charge: :charge:

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Originally Posted by khelvan

Yeah, I know. It kinda sucks. I mean it's like having to create several types of foot spear units for those pesky Greeks, or infantry sword units for those silly Celts. ~;)

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Yeah, why would the US want the Rangers if they have the Marines yet, and all carry M16 guns? ~D

You didn't remove pyjamas!
~;)

thank goodness there're still some pyjamas!
awesome previeuw. units, triumphs, buildings, and Regional units. great!

btw, how did you solve the fact parthians became liberate 20 years after vanilla's start?
alliance with seleucids? move starting date?

this is just awesome!
amazing...
wondefull...
...,....
words can't say enough.

Now finish the beta!!! :whip: ~;)

Very nice (again). For variety's sake, can't you guys just do a preview that sucks? Just once?

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Originally Posted by khelvan

It's a secret.

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A real secret, or just the word itself?

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Originally Posted by Geoffrey S

Very nice (again). For variety's sake, can't you guys just do a preview that sucks? Just once?

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trust me..Rome will suck ~;) i already saw 5 units :charge: from Prometheus his mon in "the forge" looks good, but the surprise is gone ~:eek:

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Originally Posted by Geoffrey S

Very nice (again). For variety's sake, can't you guys just do a preview that sucks? Just once?

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No.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Geoffrey S

A real secret, or just the word itself?

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Yes.

Persians, Sarmatians etc.. are a bunch of ninnies with their horse archer based army. I'll take raw infantry (romans, barbs) any day of the week!

Didn't the Parthians use chariots? Or was that the Pontus empire?

pontic i thought..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by shifty157

Very nice. Although it seems as if you have several different kinds of horse archers. Maybe im missing something because i dont know their stats but that seems a bit redundant to me.

Awesome preview though. Very informative.

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Not at all. Many Iranian people were horse archers. And some used spears as secondary weapons (Dahae), others swords or axes I believe. Some were richer, thus could afford (slightly) better armor.
In addition, one of the bow armed units you see (Dehbed Asavara), is more or less a cataphract, who has a kontus.

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btw, how did you solve the fact parthians became liberate 20 years after vanilla's start?
alliance with seleucids? move starting date?

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They start out as the nomadic Parni who did not yet live in the Parthian province.

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Persians, Sarmatians etc.. are a bunch of ninnies with their horse archer based army. I'll take raw infantry (romans, barbs) any day of the week!

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Hah! Don't make me laugh. Infantry wouldn't get a chance to even wound any proper army before they are dead.

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Didn't the Parthians use chariots? Or was that the Pontus empire?

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No chariots.

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You didn't remove pyjamas!
~;)

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Well, that was really how some people dressed. But it was never purple or torquoise.

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ps3. Does anyone else want to play this faction first? My favorite so far.

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I do! ~;)

Great preview!

I was wondering if the Pahlava will have the same culture as the cities of Seleucid controlled persia. I thought it was very unrealistic to capture persian cities that were completely Hellenized. But then how will the Seleucids be able to hold their empire together with it being so vast and still have the culture penalty?

Looking good as usual .
Loved the idea of not deleting the Parthians and presents them as they "were" before .
About the "Pahlava" , Phahlawi is the name of the last persian-Iranian dynasty , so what is the origin of the name ?

This is the best faction preview yet! Those horse archers and cataphracts look very nice, and their art looks completely redone too.

BTW, what's the difference between the Zradha and the Azad cataphracts? Is one more 'elite', or are they just different units?

Caesar, I believe it means Champion. It is the what the Parthians called themselves.

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I was wondering if the Pahlava will have the same culture as the cities of Seleucid controlled persia. I thought it was very unrealistic to capture persian cities that were completely Hellenized. But then how will the Seleucids be able to hold their empire together with it being so vast and still have the culture penalty?

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Well, they are not the same culture as the Hellenics. However, Parthia did adopt a good deal of Hellenic culture, and many Greeks were far more comfortable with them than the Persians were of their fellow Iranians.

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BTW, what's the difference between the Zradha and the Azad cataphracts? Is one more 'elite', or are they just different units?

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There were many variations of the cataphract type. Each noble provided their own equipment, which pretty much meant that no two cataphracts were the same. However, as we can't do that, we have multiple types of cataphracts. The Azad I believe are the second highest cataphract. They would be more expensive and be of better quality of the Zradha.

Pahalwan mean champion or wrestler in modern Urdu (and I would guess Persian too).

:cheers:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wolftrapper78

Great preview!

I was wondering if the Pahlava will have the same culture as the cities of Seleucid controlled persia. I thought it was very unrealistic to capture persian cities that were completely Hellenized. But then how will the Seleucids be able to hold their empire together with it being so vast and still have the culture penalty?

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They will have a difficult time of it, which is what in fact happened historically.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by caesar44

Looking good as usual .
Loved the idea of not deleting the Parthians and presents them as they "were" before .
About the "Pahlava" , Phahlawi is the name of the last persian-Iranian dynasty , so what is the origin of the name ?

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*phlw'nyg or Pahlawanig (Pahlavanig) means Parthian in Middle Persian. The name through association with the Parthians came to mean hero, warrior, champion, and variants of this. For example Pahlawan means "hero" in Kurdish which is related to Median and Parthian as part of the Northwestern branch of West Iranian. Persian itself is of the Southwestern branch of West Iranian.

so what is this Iranian longsword? bronze? iron? screenie?

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Originally Posted by jerby

so what is this Iranian longsword? bronze? iron? screenie?

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It would be of iron, similar in many ways to the Scytho-Sarmatian longsword.

You guys proud of all TW community! :bow:

Parthians were Rohan Kingdom of ancient times! Excellent reflection of true characteristics.

and you Khelvan go and get some sleep. We need you alive mate ~:cheers:

Fantastic preview with an extroardinary variety of horse archers and as always very interesting informations about Parthian culture and religion, can't wait to play with them !

Wow great preview EB... ~:cheers:

Wow, I wasn't expecting another preview. Things are getting pretty close to release, I'm sure.

oh dear, I'm gonna do a story for EB, you know, like Maltz's story, except for EB. Man, it will be hard to choose what faction to start with. Or maybe, I could do all factions in one story! Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeesssssss! What a idea!

sleep is overrated

good preview, wasnt expectign this when i logged in today

Nice preview, ought to keep all horse lovers out there very happy!!
A question; one of the HA units its shown holding the bow across indicating that it's used the "normal" way, arrow on the left side. IIRC Parthians were using a "thumb ring", placing the arrow on the right side of the bow, is this correct or is it because it’s still WIP?

O_Stratigos :bow:

Um... did anyone else notice that the first cavalry unit in the list had BLONDE beards? Who are they? Galatians? LOL JK, simple mistake, I'm sure they'll fix it.

Anyways, the thing that made me crazy in the good way was the two handed lance animation. I assume this breathrough will be applied to all those Successor cavalries as well right? I mean, something this amazing cannot be left unused!

Oh well, even if the animation is not implemented, I'll still be able to put it on myself.

Um, Iranians were often blonde. They were "white", and though many were brown or black haired, blondes were certainlty more common in some tribes than other colorings.

Werent the Indo-Iranians a Germanic subgroup?, or am I mistaken?

Because I remember hearing something to that effect somewhere

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Originally Posted by Zero1

Werent the Indo-Iranians a Germanic subgroup?, or am I mistaken?

Because I remember hearing something to that effect somewhere

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In older texts they are sometimes referred to as Indo-Germanic while in modern usage we use Indo-European.

Many of the North Iranian groups had lighter hair.

Very pretty, even if i hate mounted archers with a burning passion of burneyness.

Why don't you like horse archers?

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Originally Posted by Steppe Merc

Why don't you like horse archers?

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when i started rtw. no historical knowledge whatsoever. start seleucids as second campaign. and get a 10-stack-levy pikemen army Olibterated by HA's running along the red lines...
horribly boring, horribly humiliating...
i ,personally, dont use them that much as well. but they pose an interesting threat.

To fight horse archers, you need to fight as their enemies truly did. You need enough of your own cavalry to chase them off as well as skirmishers. You can't expect to defeat horse archers with infantry, it won't happen, just as it didn't happen in real life.

You can also use long ranged artillery, like ballistae. It can chase them off. Alexander used it to good effect against the Sakae.

You'd think foot archers would do just fine.

They do, generally. However, the example Urnamma mentioned was a bit special, as it involved a river crossing. The ballistae forced the Sakae away from the opposite bank and the Makedonians could cross without being harassed. That whole battle, btw, is a very good example of how a horse archer army could be beaten historically. Most of that will work in EB too.

yeah...i read about that a bit..
the cav was in Wedge formation, the first party got hit (bad) but mamanged to cirle around a section of sakae's, and another party sandwiched them..but it was a textual source and thus hard to interprate.Plus, it was Valerio Massimmo, and thus not the most acurate one..

Interested in that episode? (IIRC, it's been claimed to be the first recorded use of field artillery) There's a valuable analysis of Arrian's account (the main source for it) in this webpage. You should definitely end up with a reasonably clear idea of, at the very least, the competing theories about what actually happened.

Humm... excuse the latent anthropologist in me... but...

Does this mean that the Sarmatians and Scythians too were light haired? How different were they from their brethern in the German forests?

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Originally Posted by Turin

Humm... excuse the latent anthropologist in me... but...

Does this mean that the Sarmatians and Scythians too were light haired? How different were they from their brethern in the German forests?

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Actually the Germans were not as light haired as we are accustomed to imagine, and light hair tends to increase in northern Germany, Poland and some parts of Russia. So the Cimmerians, Scythians, and Sarmatians were probably (guesswork) blonder than the present day Germans, just as the poles are. We do not actually know exactly how many were blonde but a considerable portion were.

Sooooo, what your saying is that lighter hair is in fact more of a Slavic/Indo-Iranian trait then a Germanic one?

Forgive my question-asking but I am legitamitely curious

The steppe HA's could fire up to 10 arrows per minute whilst moving. I'm not sure what the rate is in RTW, but that is insane!

I saw some video about a russian man who's devoted a large part of his life to perfecting the HA combat style by which the hun's used.

This guy is amazing. He emulates the huns perfectly. He keeps all the arrows clinched in the same fist that holds the bow. He simply fires the arrow and as his hand reaches back for the string, he's already got another arrow waiting there. He shuffles them into position with the hand that holds the arrows and bow. It fired much like an archaic automatic gun. He did this while moving at a good speed on the horse, hitting the target with high accuracy.

Now that I think about it, he rarely used his reigns, he could steer the horse by shifting his arms in the air quickly and using his hips.

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Originally Posted by sharrukin

Actually the Germans were not as light haired as we are accustomed to imagine, and light hair tends to increase in northern Germany, Poland and some parts of Russia. So the Cimmerians, Scythians, and Sarmatians were probably (guesswork) blonder than the present day Germans, just as the poles are. We do not actually know exactly how many were blonde but a considerable portion were.

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Tacitus indeed says that the Germans are known for their red hair, rather than blonde, which the Romans considered more a feature of the Celts and various other people.

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Sooooo, what your saying is that lighter hair is in fact more of a Slavic/Indo-Iranian trait then a Germanic one?

Forgive my question-asking but I am legitamitely curious

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I don't think Slavic, but I'm not sure. But it would explain my Mom's Polish and blonde, and why all of my brothers are half Polish, and quite blonde...
But there were many Iranian peoples. Some Scythian mummified royals looked like they would have fit right in in Sweden. Some Iranian peoples were darker than others (Persians), but there were a good amount of blondes.
Actually, you know the whole Aryan race crap that Hitler invented? Aryan is (possibely) what the Iranians called Iran, and (possibely) themselves. There is more proof than just Hitler's "proof", but I think it's incunclusive.

Question- Are huns and sarmatians white or asian?

sarmatians are white I believe, huns are asian, right?

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Originally Posted by Chester

Question- Are huns and sarmatians white or asian?

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the huns come from north of china, they are decendents of the mongols, i think.

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Originally Posted by Marinakis

they come from north of china, they are decendents of the mongols, i think.

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mongols came after the huns ~D, about 900 years later!

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Originally Posted by Gertgregoor

mongols came after the huns ~D, about 900 years later!

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well i hear that the great wall of china was built partly to keep both the huns and mongols out of china, so they atleast lived near eachother

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Originally Posted by Steppe Merc

Actually, you know the whole Aryan race crap that Hitler invented? Aryan is (possibely) what the Iranians called Iran, and (possibely) themselves. There is more proof than just Hitler's "proof", but I think it's incunclusive.

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He didn't make it up, he just got it wrong. Germans aren't Aryans.

The comparison between Persians and other Iranians reminds me of comparing one Celtic tribe to another. The Cymru were darker in complexion and hair than the Goidils, for example.

Okay so let me get this straight.

In 280 or so BC, the Northern Iranians and the Sarmatian tribes west of the Urals were "white" in the sense that they looked somewhat like the modern Swede, or what not.

Then comes the migrations westward of Asiatic peoples from east of the Urals, culminating in the arrival of the Huns in the Western Roman Empire. So in the end the whitish peoples of Eastern Europe and the Caucauses were replaced or intermarried into Asiatic peoples with darker hair and complexions?

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Originally Posted by Turin

Okay so let me get this straight.

In 280 or so BC, the Northern Iranians and the Sarmatian tribes west of the Urals were "white" in the sense that they looked somewhat like the modern Swede, or what not.

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well I think with whot they mean is more like the avarage European.

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Countdown to Open Beta - Pahlava

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I don't want this pahlava! ~D

*pun on pahlava, in case you missed it*

EDIT: They look very very nice. Should definately be an improvement over Vanilla, with more flexible infantry battalions (EI are, for want of a better word, crap).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NeonGod

He didn't make it up, he just got it wrong. Germans aren't Aryans.

The comparison between Persians and other Iranians reminds me of comparing one Celtic tribe to another. The Cymru were darker in complexion and hair than the Goidils, for example.

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Good qoute, but I think a bit poor wording; Cymru weren't a tribe, they were a subculture (as were Goidils). However, they did have different genetic roots that gave cause that Goidils were generally fair-skinned and fairer-haired (brown hair and red hair {even before the vikings, there are graves of red-haired Goidils, likely descended from Belgae, who had red hair sometimes}, compared to the more common black hair of Cambrians and later Cymrians, though Goidils had black hair too sometimes; however, this is speaking in general).

Of Aryans, Hitler's assertations were just wrong, as NeonGod said; the Aryan race exists, but they aren't 'Germans'; his definition of Aryans would have lent itself more to Gauls (and southern 'Gallic' Britons, Tylisians and Galatians that stemmed from them) than it would Germanic tribes.

I would dispute the use of the term of 'subculture' in this case, but I digress.

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sarmatians are white I believe, huns are asian, right?

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Well it's a bit difficult, since there were "white" Iranians living in Asia to just say "white" or "asian". But we are not entirely sure what the Huns are. Probably related to the Turks more so than the Iranians. So they were possibly more Asiatic. It is difficult to say, however, since the Romans discriptions really helpful, and I don't think too many burials have been found (unlike say the Iranians and the Turks).

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Okay so let me get this straight.

In 280 or so BC, the Northern Iranians and the Sarmatian tribes west of the Urals were "white" in the sense that they looked somewhat like the modern Swede, or what not.

Then comes the migrations westward of Asiatic peoples from east of the Urals, culminating in the arrival of the Huns in the Western Roman Empire. So in the end the whitish peoples of Eastern Europe and the Caucauses were replaced or intermarried into Asiatic peoples with darker hair and complexions?

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More or less. Only some Iranian peoples were blonde, some were darker. And then the Huns, Turks, Arabs, and finally Mongols came, and interbred with the Iranians. Some remained pretty independant, like the Alans after the Huns fell. But as a whole other peoples assimilated them (nomadic peoples tended to just join up with a stronger tribe), yeah.
And before the migrations, the Iranians weren't mixed with Asiatic peoples.

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He didn't make it up, he just got it wrong. Germans aren't Aryans.

The comparison between Persians and other Iranians reminds me of comparing one Celtic tribe to another. The Cymru were darker in complexion and hair than the Goidils, for example.

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Thanks Neon God and Ranika for clearing up the Aryan issue, I wasn't entirelly sure about the whole thing.

So modern day Iranians are decendents from white boys mixed with arabs? I'm I getting this right? They are very light in skin color. My proffesor looks like an italian or even a jew, but he's Iranian.

I really appreciate the knowledge people here pass around. This is by far one of the best forums, for games, that I've attended.

I'm not sure about current day Iranian. But I think the Arabs had difficulty in conquering many regions, so in Iran itself there are probably a good amount of people with more Iranian blood than not, which explains you're proffesor's complexion.

didn't turkic peoples overrun that area after the arabs? maybe they didn't really populate it though..

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Originally Posted by Big_John

didn't turkic peoples overrun that area after the arabs? maybe they didn't really populate it though..

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I don't know about that but a turc ran over my cousin once ~;)

If you are speaking of peoples like the Seljuks, etc.. That would be a sort of second (or even third or fourth wave) turkic wave. They were already converted to Islam. Before them, there had been previous westwards movements of a diversity of pre-Islamic turkic peoples that the Caliphate fought as it expanded towards Central Asia.

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didn't turkic peoples overrun that area after the arabs? maybe they didn't really populate it though..

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Well there was the Gok "Blue" Turks, that then divided into the Eastern and Western Turkish Khagans who were at war often with the Sassanians, and some probably mixed with Iranian peoples in that area. Then the Arab invasions happened, and the Turks broke up into a whole bunch of tribes. Many converted to Islam, though some resisted. In fact, Persians (Iranians), Turks and Arabs were the three main Islamic people. They all sort of helped form what Islam was about, militarily and culturally.

And I think that there is Turkish blood in many modern peoples, from Asia Minor to Asia and the Middle East. Again, I don't know much about the people in that area after the Middle Ages. ~;)
And a main part of that is that I'm not sure how much each nation makes up of ancient Iran, so I'm not sure which of today's nations that Turks invaded, etc.

edit: And Angadil's right, many spread out, and then came back in, though some stayed in the area I think.

Great update EB,

Lots of units to watch + interesting information but i prefer the Sauromatae..


Spongly

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Tacitus indeed says that the Germans are known for their red hair, rather than blonde, which the Romans considered more a feature of the Celts and various other people.

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Some germanic tribes painted their hair red but where not naturarlly so.
Gauls and Britons (don't know about the Geals) often bleeched their hair with lime or some other substance maybe this is the reason that Romans imagined that gauls where all fairhaired...

Ranika,

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Of Aryans, Hitler's assertations were just wrong, as NeonGod said; the Aryan race exists, but they aren't 'Germans'; his definition of Aryans would have lent itself more to Gauls (and southern 'Gallic' Britons, Tylisians and Galatians that stemmed from them) than it would Germanic tribes.

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Please explain ranika,
Where the aryans a group of people that invaded India and Iran a very long time ago?!
I don't think about the Celts if I hear the word aryans...

Tank the Aryans themselves were Iranians (Scythians, Sakaes, Sarmatians, Persians, Parthians, etc.). It's two words for the same thing.
However, they probably had relatives amongst the Celtic people.

I was under the impression that the Indo-Iranians were closer in relation to the Germanic peoples then the Celts, was I mistaken?

It depends upon which migration model is followed, and where and when one places the Urheimat for the Indo-European language.

If the Kurgan hypothesis is followed than the Urheimat is placed on the northern shore of the Black Sea with the Yamna culture. The Iranian and Indo-Aryan come from the Pontic steppes and the Yamna culture then the Adronovo culture and then circle around the north Caspian and back down and around to the south and west. This would make Indo-Aryan and Iranian more closely related to pre-proto-Germanic, since the pre-proto-Celtic peoples like the pre-Unetice culture had already moved farther west, splitting off west from the Yamna culture.

If the much earlier Neolithic revolution, or proto-Hittite, hypothesis is followed then the Urheimat is placed around Lake Urmia, and then spread north to form the Yamna and Maykop kurgan cultures and south, west and east to form proto-Hittite cultures. This allows for the possibility that the pre-proto-Celtic cultures came from a spread west and northwest, while the pre-proto-Germanic spread from the Yamna culture north and then west.

A third possibility is placing the Urheimat for Indo-European even earlier around shores of the pre-deluge Black Sea, particularly on the land that became the Sea of Azov. This would then start major expansion with the 5500 BCE deluge which created the current and much larger sea, spreading and splitting the culture west and northwest to form the pre-proto-Celtics, south and southeast to form the pre-proto-Hittites and Iranian/Indo-Aryan and north and northeast to form the kurgan cultures and the pre-proto-Germanic and later the pre-proto-Baltic.

And don't forget the Tarim mummies from the Tarim basin. Caucasoid mummies in the Xinjiang-Uyghur region from around 2000 BCE. They had fair, often red hair, had clothing which used techniques and wool similar to western European cultures and other things which make them non-Asian. They could possible be proto-Tocharian in origin, which would make them pre-proto-Iranian/Indo-Aryan; but their clothing suggests a more northern descent, more akin to pre-proto-Baltic-Slavic.