Pc Rpg

I need a good SP RPG, one that will suck me in. I have played Diablo II to death, as well as both KOTORs. I already own Morrowind. I tried NWN, didn't really like it. I have Deus Ex II on X-Box. Any suggestions?

Sometimes I wish there was an Ogre Battle game for PC. That would be swell.

I have heard that Final Fantasy is good, but I have never played it and have no working knowledge of the series whatsoever. In fact, I tend to avoid it because of its popularity.

I played the Divine Divinity demo, liked it, and was all set to buy Beyond Divinity before I played the demo. Then I changed my mind.

The Dungeon Siege demo bored me to death - a mindless hack without the Diablo effect that kept me playing for hours on end.

Sacred is just a poorly made Diablo clone.

As you can see, it has been rather difficult. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Try Pirates of the Carribean, but install the Build Mod from piratesahoy.net. Yes, it's pirates, but it can be entertaining with the right modifications (just dont play it unmodded, it sucks).

My suggestion would be Baldur's Gate 2: Shadows of Amn. Pretty much the best RPG I've ever played and will propably be that for a while longer.
Although it's age is starting to show, but that's offset by the great story and the wonderful dialogue. ~;)

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Originally Posted by 1pain1Duck

My suggestion would be Baldur's Gate 2: Shadows of Amn. Pretty much the best RPG I've ever played and will propably be that for a while longer.
Although it's age is starting to show, but that's offset by the great story and the wonderful dialogue. ~;)

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If you buy it don't forget the expansion too. The best expansion ever.

Vampires the Masquarade: Bloodlines


If you've never played this game you don't deserve to call yourself a pc gamer.

BG II is indeed the best PC RPG ever. If you're willing to try this one, you might want to try Bladur's Gate 1 first, since the 2 games are linked (basically, that's the same story, with the same character, and if you finish BG I, you'll be able to import your character to BG II)
If you have a PS one or PS2, try out Final Fantasy 7 (my favorite game ever) or 9, they are well worth it, if you don't dislike japanese games. FF 8 and 10 are kinda sucky IMHO, but I know some people enjoyed them aswell.

I second VTM: Bloodlines.

I've been playing Anachronox lately (it's on budget) and it's okay if you don't mind a lot of running around to find the right item/switch/character. I've been meaning to write a full review once I finish it (mostly for myself, i don't think anyone really cares about this old game ~:))

Baldur's Gate II is really hard to find these days, at least in the shops.

IIRC the last Final Fantasy game on the PC was FF7 (except the online one, FF11 I think) and it's fantastic, although the game itself is nearly ten years old and probably won't look to good by today's standards.
You can play older Final Fantasy's on emulators, but I'm not sure how legal that is where you live, and therefor, I won't recommend it. Although ff6 is also quite good. (For the record, downloading iis still legal in Belgium, at least for now.)

Another console style rpg converted to the pC is Grandia 2 (again, quite old, 2000 on the DC iirc), which has one of the best combat systems in a console rpg that I've seen. I didn't really care for the story, and if you're a die hard christian (or Muslim of Jew) it might really rub you the wrong way.

The best recent CRPG is Vampire: Bloodlines. I was initially put off by being a Vampire, but it is brilliantly done - at least in my case, you end up feeling and behaving like a vampire. Some of the NPCs are very well characterised - one, Jack, is more vividly drawn in just the tutorial than most NPCs are in entire CRPGs. The side-plots are innovative and far from hack n slash (although the end game does degenerate into that).

Of the older games, the two series that stand out as all time greats are Baldur's Gate and Fallout. They also have interesting NPCs and sideplots, but better combat (especially BG, where the combat is so rich it is like a good squad tactics game) and a more epic, free-form world to roam in. In both cases, the second in the series is the better but there are strong plot reasons to play them in order (plus the improvements in the second will spoil it for you if you have to subsequently play the first).

Gothic II is a great singleplayer only game. Set in a medieval fantasy world - but still very realistic. It's better than morrowind in my opinion, as the world seems much more alive. And it WILL suck you in - after you learned to control the battle system.

Baldur's Gate series is good but Planescape: Torment is better. It has amazing story & characters and excellent dialogue. Mind you, it is not a traditional pseudo-medieval fantasy setting, but a much more "fantastical" one. And you better be willing to spend a *lot* of time just having conversations with NPCs.

In addition to VTM:Bloodlines I suggest you to try The Bard's Tale. It's Baldur's Gate 2 style but funnier....

Neg on Vampires. Computer isn't up to snuff. 'Tis a low-end shopping list for me.

Lehesu, you mentioned Deus Ex 2 - I assume you've played the original? If not, it's a very fine RPG - haven't tried the second, but heard it's smaller with less RPG elements.

On a similar vein, System Shock 2 is an amazing RPG. Both games are sometimes described as RPG/action hybrids, but have excellent plots and atmosphere, plus stats n stuff.

I wouldnt class system shock as a rpg. Stats are present, however, it is more a horror/action game with limited RPG elements. Very good game though and I definately recommend it!

Second for Torment. Great game, especially if one has become a bit bored of the more mainstream fantasy stuff. Snippets from Wikipedia:

"Planescape: Torment differs from similar CRPGs like those in the Baldur's Gate series by placing an emphasis on conversation and storyline, as opposed to an emphasis on combat. ... The game's main themes include guilt, redemption, the significance of names and the importance of knowing oneself."

"Planescape: Torment is notable for the quantity of dialogue (in text form) which it contains. An estimate by the creators of the game places it at almost 1 million words. This is comparable to one volume of the Encyclopædia Britannica. It has been argued that the wordy nature of the game may have turned off potential players, having realized that gameplay often focuses on resolution of quest and story objectives through selection from available dialogue choices, rather than through combat encounters."

There's still quite a bit of combat, though. Less than in BG, and some of it is avoidable, but expect to fight a plenty of odd critters in the course of the game.

Gah. I hate the Baldur's Gate series. IMO, D&D rules are inherently unsuited to computer play. They weren't designed for it, and it shows.

I have Baldur's Gate I + Tales of the Sword Coast, and the characters in that and their endlessly repeated little comments are also really annoying.

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Originally Posted by Sjakihata

Gothic II is a great singleplayer only game. Set in a medieval fantasy world - but still very realistic. It's better than morrowind in my opinion, as the world seems much more alive. And it WILL suck you in - after you learned to control the battle system.

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Oh that's a very timely recommendation Sjakitha - I just happened to be offered a budget version of that game for about $10 earlier today, and was tempted but since I never heard of the game, decided against. Maybe I'll reconsider...

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Originally Posted by screwtype

Gah. I hate the Baldur's Gate series. IMO, D&D rules are inherently unsuited to computer play. They weren't designed for it, and it shows.

I have Baldur's Gate I + Tales of the Sword Coast, and the characters in that and their endlessly repeated little comments are also really annoying.

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Ah, blasphemy! BG1 was great fun - I think the DnD rules are fine for computer play[1]. With a party, the class system makes the combat very tactical - Icewind Dale 1 & 2 were essentially squad level tactical combat games. You have a front line of 3 fighters, a mage providing a wide selection of artillery, a thief scouting and backstabbing, a cleric healing and buffing - it's fun coordinating it all. (Where DnD falls down in computer games is when they make it essentially for a sole protaganist, as in NWN SP - it needs a party). At it's best, BG1 was similar, but added a lot of freedom and interesting story/quests.

But BG2 took the engine to a higher level - the characters in it are very well drawn. For example, Imoen transforms from a really annoying repeater of little comments in BG1 into a tragic vulnerable sister in BG2 who is to die for. The combat evolves from the uber-bows of BG1 into epic mage duels of spell protection and counter-protection in BG2. Plus the story switches pace from the leisurely meandering through the wilderness or city of BG1 into a gripping story arc in BG2 that grabs you by the scruff of the neck and does not let go (at least until you get out of the Underdark). If you have only tried BG1, you probably can't conceive of how good BG2 is.

[1]Another example of DnD working in a computer game might be KOTOR - it's not exactly DnD but uses common D20 rules and provides a pretty solid set of rules for both character development and combat.

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Originally Posted by screwtype

Oh that's a very timely recommendation Sjakitha - I just happened to be offered a budget version of that game for about $10 earlier today, and was tempted but since I never heard of the game, decided against. Maybe I'll reconsider...

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For $10 it is certainly worth it.

I want to try maybe BG or Icewind Dale but I have one issue that needs to be cleared up.

I did not like NWN. Didn't like the item system, didn't like the boring hordes of similar monsters, didn't like the skill implementation.

I did like KOTOR. Despite being D20 based, it gelled in all the ways NWN didn't for me.

My question for those who suggested BG (or Icewind Dale): Does BG differ significantly from NWN? What qualities do these games have that NWN does not, and are these qualities significant enough that I will enjoy the game, even if I disliked NWN?


Edit: Just finished perusing Game FAQs. In the user reviews, many gamers who loved Baldur's Gate absolutely hated NWN, some for the same reasons that I did. There is hope!

NWN is notorious for its lackluster single-player, and that angers many Baldur's Gate fans. After all, the older game(s) has probably one of the greatest, most detailed, engrossing, complete (in an ending-satisfying sense) storyline out there.

However, if you hate level-up mainly by hunting monsters, Torment would be better. It has a lot of dialogue and much less fight.

NWN's lackluster singleplayer was redeemed with Hordes of the Underdark expansion, the sequal to Shadows of Undrentide expansion. Unlike SoU and NWN, HotU has multiple endings. I especially like buying the True Names of the companions just to see what I can do with them.

There are demo's out for BG and BGII, so you can try the games yourself. You should be able to find them at Actiontrip, expect pretty big downloads though.

About Planescape Torment: I remember buying that game when it first came out after reading a rave review in PC Gamer. I never got out of the first (?) city, I didn't even complete the first quest. After playing it for a while I just quit and never started it again. I remember thinking that if I just wanted to read stuff I would have gotten a book.

About KOTOR: no shop seems to carry the original one these days. I really want to try it after all the praise it's gotten here, and I'm hesitant to try KOTORII before playing the first one. However it seems like I should hurry and buy KOTORII before it is sold out too :furious3:

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Originally Posted by Lehesu

I want to try maybe BG or Icewind Dale but I have one issue that needs to be cleared up.

I did not like NWN. Didn't like the item system, didn't like the boring hordes of similar monsters, didn't like the skill implementation.

I did like KOTOR. Despite being D20 based, it gelled in all the ways NWN didn't for me.

My question for those who suggested BG (or Icewind Dale): Does BG differ significantly from NWN? What qualities do these games have that NWN does not, and are these qualities significant enough that I will enjoy the game, even if I disliked NWN?

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Be careful to distinguish BG and Icewind Dale. Although the rules, graphics and engines are essentially the same, they are very different games. Icewind Dale 1 and 2 are both linear, hack n slash dungeon crawls. Their best qualities are the freedom to create a powerful party of your own design and seemingly endless tactical combats driven by a semblance of a story (in the latter respect, imagine a thinking person's Dungeon Siege). I got bored of them pretty quickly, although, in their defence, the combats were very well designed to be continually challenging despite your characters dramatically increasing in power.

The BG games have many of the virtues of Icewind Dale - the combat is pretty good (ie tactical and challenging), perhaps especially in BG2 (bows are uber in BG1). What they add is a fairly epic story in the KOTOR mold, plus memorable NPC characters and interesting side quests. Both give you a lot of freedom to go where you want and do what you want (more than KOTOR does).

Both IWD and BG differ from NWN in having a party that you control. This makes the game much more tactical, with more options etc, than either NWN or KOTOR. The combat is also much better balanced - in the NWN OC, for some reason, they made the combat just too easy and repetitive for much of the game.

The mechanics of skills etc are very similar in all these games - they share a fairly faithful adaptation of DnD rules. Again, I find these more fun when working with a full party - as in IWD or BG - rather than a sole protaganist - as in NWN. (KOTOR was rather imbetween, as you could actually level up over half a dozen party members even if only two accompanied you at any one time.) It's not a bad skills system, but a little one dimensional compared to say the SPECIAL system in Fallout or the free form system used in Morrowind. It gets the job done - being tried and tested it makes the characters and combat fairly balanced.

Not sure what you had against the item system in NWN. Items are pretty well distributed in all these games, with better loot etc so you gradually get more powerful as the game progresses.

My personal recommendation would be to buy both BG and BG2. But beware they are both around 100 hours each to finish! See if you like BG and get as far with it as you can (I burnt out by Chapter 5). Then use a level up program (Gatekeeper or something) to boost your character up and import them into BG2. The story and characters in BG2 feel much better if you have gotten into character in BG1. But if you are in a hurry, you could just go with BG2 - it is much better than BG1 (has more of the cinematic and character elements you probably enjoyed in KOTOR); definitely a contender for best CRPG ever.

I remember both BG and BG2 with fond memories... My Human, Male, Fighter raised from 1st level all the way through the 2 games...

Firing them up now is a little disapointing though, I just remember them as being way prettier. Now it is like, eugh... The games simply were not built to be run at todays standard resolutions...

While BG2 is the better story it really does pay dividends to work through BG first. One you get to practice with the system and two you get very attached to your character and can transfer them into BG2...

Personally I enjoyed the Fallout series more and again this benefits from playing the games in order (simply to get the full story)...

But BG2 is simply one of the best stories to have occured in a PC game (but it is still DnD)...

VTM:Bloodlines was great fun with some fantastic set pieces but a pretty linear story for an RPG...

Deus Ex, [simply] amazing alot like VTM:Bloodlines in the options you have(aged though, v1.5 of the Unreal engine).. Deus Ex 2, nice FPS+ but no RPG (you get to choose who you want to fight and run some erands)...

System shock 2, again RPG may be a litle strong as there is not really anyone to talk to or factions to be involved with. More like DOOM with charater development...

Morrowind should be perfect, but personally I could not get into the world as it was just too fantasy for me... (I mean, glass armour!! Come on!!!)

Might pick up Gothic 2 if I can find it and I am regliously awaiting Gothic 3 and Stalker...

I loved playing BGII with my Mage, going solo. No party members whatsoever. How did I do this? Four words: Staff Of The Archmagi.

Actually, some classes in BGII are so overpowered that it's easier to go solo and rack up the XP (Monks, Kensai, Mage, Paladin) ~;)

BG2 was fun, and my dual-wielding (Equalizer and Celestial Fury) kensai/rogue in white-dragon armour was well-nigh unstoppable. Especially with traps...

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Originally Posted by Bob the Insane

Morrowind should be perfect, but personally I could not get into the world as it was just too fantasy for me... (I mean, glass armour!! Come on!!!

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Actually Morrowind's "Glass" is more like Obsidian rocks (though bright emerald green rather than black) than "traditional" glass. It's an equivalent of ebony in the game; came from the same source, Red Mountain, but lighter, more exotice, and less destructive than its black cousin.

Admit it, you hate Fargoth! ~D

Anyway, the original poster also posted that he already has Morrowind. So this is not really one of the choices.

After reading through this and some other sites, I got hold of a copy of Gothic 2... Wow...

Doulbe wow because with my rig (and the age of the gfx engine) I have it on high rez, max setting with drw distance at like 200% so you can see very far...

Good story too, much more focused and standard fantasy, humans vs. the monsters(a.k.a. the forces of darkness)...

I suggest waiting for Oblivion to come out this fall. Wee!

Fat chance of my rig handling that. I WILL NOT get it on console...the mod oppurtunities are too good to be wasted.

Strangely, since reading this thread, I started playing NWN again. Like Lehesu I never really liked it much. I found it generally bland, unchallenging and soulless[1].

However, I'm now playing a couple of mods from the ign Hall of Fame - the Shadowlords (soloing it) and CC1-Myth Drannor (with my son) - and they're really rather good. CC1 seems amazingly polished for an amateur production - its maps are rather beautiful and the combat seems very well pitched in terms of challenge. Shadowlords is working up to an epic story in the BG mold and even throwing in a rather sweet romance. I'd recommend trying them both - afterall, you can't quibble about the price. ~;)

[1]Although Charwood area in Chapter 2 of the OC and the Witch's Wake module by Bioware are up there as among the best experiences CRPGs can offer. Shadows of Undrentide was also fun - Deekin the kobold bard is hard to beat as a recruitable NPC.

Yup, the normal NWN campaigns are rather poor. But the fan generated content is sometimes pretty wonderful. I recommend trying the Aielund Saga, when you find the time. It's by now rather bugfree and it's truly a great mod. ~:)

Twilight and Midnight are also good modules if you want to play a REAL paladin, not just some Lawful Stupid fighter with a holy sword. The only problem is that waiting for the third installation (Dawn) is like waiting for Duke Nukem Forever.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Fable. From what I've seen anyway, no one has said anything about it...

It's more of an adventure than an RPG, but I've got to pimp Outcast, excellent game. And on the RPG side I found Anachronox rather good fun.

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Originally Posted by kekvitirae

Twilight and Midnight are also good modules if you want to play a REAL paladin, not just some Lawful Stupid fighter with a holy sword. The only problem is that waiting for the third installation (Dawn) is like waiting for Duke Nukem Forever.

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What she said. Plus, do the Rogue module, by the same guy. It be good.

Fable is, not, at least right now, a PC RPG. Rest assured, I will be getting the Lost Chapters for Xbox, as I have heard the game is decent.

Lehesu, even though I have Morrowind GOTY for Xbox, I'm gonna get Oblivion for PC, cause the prices will be the same, and for Xbox you can't mod and download new sweet stuff. ~D
Plus I don't want to have to lay out $350 for a new Xbox console...

I had great fun playing Divine Divinity (indeed the sequel beyond divinity wasn't nearly as good), the side quests are fun, the world is immersive and very open (go whereever you want) and the game is huge, there's tons of things to do. The skill system is way cool too! You should be able to pick it up for just a few bucks...
Trust me, the demo of DD isn't nearly what the full game is. The demo is very Diablo-like while the full game has a lot more unobvious quests and great npc interaction (while in the demo you just hack yourself a way through a dungeon).

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Originally Posted by Conqueror

Baldur's Gate series is good but Planescape: Torment is better. It has amazing story & characters and excellent dialogue. Mind you, it is not a traditional pseudo-medieval fantasy setting, but a much more "fantastical" one. And you better be willing to spend a *lot* of time just having conversations with NPCs.

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Thanks for those links, I've played PST all the way through to completion and never came across either of those dialogue threads ~D

I also highly recommend PST to the list of the RPGs to play. One poster complained of getting stuck in the first city and giving up - I too did that. Thankfully I tried it again a couple of years later and got straight into it no problems. I think because it takes the BG engine and twists it, its very hard to get used to. Once I figured out how everything worked I really got into it.

The character development system is superb, unlike virtually every other RPG before KOTOR, the game decided whether you were good or evil based upon your actions, rather than a pre-defined status, and it impacted on how the game played. I've never had such an emotional attatchment a computer character as I did to The Nameless One. I felt genuine guilt as I discovered some of the terrible things I had done in previous incarnations. I fell in love with Annah (I think it was the tail ~:cool: ), she was such a vulnerable young woman who hid her weaknesses behind a veneer of toughness, I just wanted to give her a big hug, the end of the game left me heartbroken. And Morte, such a funny guy, but oh how I had mistreated him. And Dakkon, such a noble, honourable warrior, and I used that honour for my own evil purposes.......I just wanted to say sorry to them all, to try and put things right.

You might say I was attatched to my character ~;)

The dialogue is superb, the plot deep, the characters complex, the setting original.

BG and BG2 are also excellent, but more traditional than PST.

Well, I have to say, just for those of us who focus on character development for combat/tactics/strategy purposes rather than story, PST was a bit of a disappointment. Still not a bad game, but probably not worth the $40 I plunked down for it originally.

There really isn't much fighting or strategy in it at all. It's more of a RPS (role-playing story) rather than RPG. And if you tend to find fantasy writing of this sort a bit dull, then PST probably isn't for you. There's a really masssive amount of dialogue...

On the other hand, BGII and especially TOB with the enhanced difficulty mod were really really fantastic games. I must have fought the dgorg battle a hundred times; there were so many different strategies one coudl take to it (most of them complete failures, hehe). And I still remember the first time I looked at the stats and abilities on one of those planetars... just complete awe!!!!

Fallout.

One RPG to rule them all.

Does anyone have any tips on how to get hold of Planescape:Torment? It's been recommended to be several times, but nowhere seems to stock it.

Looks like I'm going to have to find Planescape: Torment somewhere. Sounds excellent.

Amazon has a list of retailers (including gogamer) -- just do a search for planescape. I've had a lot of success with amazon affiliated merchants, so don't be too worried about lack of brand.

Like I said, however, PST is not for everyone. There's a lot of dialogue and preciously little combat. I actually managed to play through it (mainly because I kept thinking "surely they're going to allow me to test my character development/equipment soon! after all, what's the us of all these stats and swords if I never get to fight anything?")

But I was disappointed by the general lack of gameplay elements.

Then again, at around $12 or so, it's not like you have a lot to lose :)

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Originally Posted by Dorkus

But I was disappointed by the general lack of gameplay elements.

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It's a different kind of gameplay. It offers a lot of possibilities to roleplay - to get into character. It's kind of curious that RPGs have become equated with stats, swords and combat. Just today I was reading an old White Dwarf, circa 1978, and it said jokingly acknowledged that Dnd encouraged RPGers to become psychotic looters who kill first and maybe ask questions later.

I think PST does the real roleplaying rather well. You do feel immersed in the story and do have to make non-trivial moral decisions, where there is no clearly right answer but there are consequences. In this, it's a million miles from Dungeon Siege or even Morrowind, but it's where I think CRPGs can become more than just action or strategy games with stats and swords. I also remember liking the fact that all the stats seemed to matter (unlike standard Dnd where classes can neglect half of them).

The problem I had was that I did not particularly care for the role I was cast in. The world is very dark and rather ugly; playing it, I felt nostalgic for the green pastures of BG and the shining steel of a long sword (PST deliberately included no swords for TNO in the game). I have an old save I keep returning to, but never get up much enthusiasm for it.

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Originally Posted by Big King Sanctaphrax

Does anyone have any tips on how to get hold of Planescape:Torment? It's been recommended to be several times, but nowhere seems to stock it.

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Unless you can find it stuck on a shelf somewhere ebay is probly your best bet.

I'd give you mine, but I'm such a pack-rat in real life I can't bear to part with my old games (I've still got NHL 94 for the MegaDrive in my loft ~D )

I'd second Dorkus's recommendation of going via Amazon. I did that to get hold of an out of stock game and the service was fast and courteous. You'd probably end up buying from a different outfit to the one that I dealt with, but I think like E-bay, the reputation keeps the system from being abused.

For people in the UK, here's the link:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/...311825-1204431

Woah, that's pretty steep for a game that old.

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Originally Posted by Big King Sanctaphrax

Woah, that's pretty normal for a game that good.

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Fixed :winkg:

Heh, point taken.

The PC version of Final Fantasy VIII actually goes on ebay and Amazon for more than I paid for it when it first came out.

Fair enough. I should have said there are fewer COMBAT gameplay elements. So if you're the tactical combat type of person, then PST might not be for you. (though, I must say, I take offense to the idea that Dungeon Siege has action or strategy :P)

Having said that, even as someone who doesn't particularly like the fantasy genre, I have to say that the writing in PST was unusually good. So if you like that type of game (KOTOR, Jade empire, possibly morrowind?), it's probably can't miss.

I just wanted to throw in a contrary opinion. Especially since BI's other games (Fallout, Icewind Dales, FOTactics) were all really excellent on combat.

OH BTW, I cannot BELIEVE that this hasn't been mentioned. But Wizardry 8 (released in 2001 I believe?) might very well be the best rpg ever. Made by the same outfit that put out Jagged Alliance 2!!! (Sir Tech)

One last thing:

SPOILER WARNING

I"m pretty sure there was at least one sword in PST? The Celestial Fury or something of the sort? It changed to a different sort of weapon depending on your alignment I think?

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Originally Posted by Simon Appleton

It's a different kind of gameplay. It offers a lot of possibilities to roleplay - to get into character. It's kind of curious that RPGs have become equated with stats, swords and combat. Just today I was reading an old White Dwarf, circa 1978, and it said jokingly acknowledged that Dnd encouraged RPGers to become psychotic looters who kill first and maybe ask questions later.

I think PST does the real roleplaying rather well. You do feel immersed in the story and do have to make non-trivial moral decisions, where there is no clearly right answer but there are consequences. In this, it's a million miles from Dungeon Siege or even Morrowind, but it's where I think CRPGs can become more than just action or strategy games with stats and swords. I also remember liking the fact that all the stats seemed to matter (unlike standard Dnd where classes can neglect half of them).

The problem I had was that I did not particularly care for the role I was cast in. The world is very dark and rather ugly; playing it, I felt nostalgic for the green pastures of BG and the shining steel of a long sword (PST deliberately included no swords for TNO in the game). I have an old save I keep returning to, but never get up much enthusiasm for it.

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Originally Posted by Dorkus

OH BTW, I cannot BELIEVE that this hasn't been mentioned. But Wizardry 8 (released in 2001 I believe?) might very well be the best rpg ever.

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Yes, Wiz8 is very much on the opposite side of the combat -----roleplay spectrum to PST. Personally, I hated it. ~;)

The combat was a masochistic trudge through endlessly cycling turns of combat, watching bloodsplats spurt from your party members due to the posion darts of some walking plant that goes phoot-phoot (and is probably called phoot-phoot). I dutifully learnt the arcane levelling and character creation system, creating what I am sure was a min-maxed party but still struggled to progress, with my party often dying a very slow painful death.

I could discern no notable plot, no world of any size to explore, no NPCs with any character, no innovative sideplots and no atmosphere (well the crashed spaceship was vaguely cool, except this was a swords and sorcery game and anyway it spoiled the effect by housing a vacuous minor in-game celebrity called Vi Dominae or some such who acted like she had walked off the set of East Enders.)

The nadir was when my party were wading through a swamp and the apparently big baddie appeared as a hologram, looking like a reject villain from Power Rangers, to pointlessly gloat at me "Mwahhaha!".

It's amazing that the game could have come from the people who made Jagged Alliance 2, which I admit was sublime. Amazing but rather reminiscent of the people who made brilliant Vampires: Bloodlines and the flawed jem of Arcanum also producing the tedious dungeon crawl of Temple of Elemental Evil.

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I"m pretty sure there was at least one sword in PST? The Celestial Fury or something of the sort? It changed to a different sort of weapon depending on your alignment I think?

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Dakkon's Zerth blade, IIRC. Very cool - like Dakkon. But you (TNO) could not wield it. ~:mecry:

I've done my appreciative spiel for Planescape: Torment many times over, so I will only repeat in brief: Buy. Now.

I loved the game. The darker setting, the sheer oddity of most of everything in the world, and the focus on talking and thinking bumped the game far above the Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale games in my froggy opinion. The humour was good too. I felt each NPC had more depth and detail than the ones in the other Black Isle games, and that the plot was a deal more personal. Epic is nice in its place, but the tighter focus here really appealed to me.

I picked up the game when it was brand new because I had bumbled (I'm dyslexic; all those nasty numbers sit there and scream "So you want to know how good your character is? Tough luck! Gah! We pwnz u n00b!!!1!1!" Another reason I loved Torment was that the numbers were a bit more hidden and a bit less important, meaning I didn’t need to cheat to survive and wasn’t perpetually puzzled) my way through the other D&D PC RPGS out there. I started the game, wandered about the mortuary, and basically thought :inquisitive: :dizzy2: I almost quit the game and gave up. But, to my eternal gratitude, I kept going, and as soon as I got into Sigil I fell in love with the game.

My only grumble with the whole game is that I've never been able to finish it. Every time I reach the UnderSigil area (near the end, about 85% of the way through) of the game it slows to not even 1FPS, so it's entirely unplayable. This has happened over and over on several different incarnations of my PC. The game's perfectly fine until the very second I go to that area, at which point everywhere is unplayable. Don't let this discourage you; I've never encountered anyone else with the same problem.

:cough: Alright, so I didn’t manage to keep it to just the two words. But that shows how much I love this game, and this is the short version of my ramblings.

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Swords!

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Dakon's zerth blade changes according to his level and state of mind. Celestial Fury can be a sword, as well as other weapons. You just have to talk to it and ask it to become one.

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Combat!

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There could be a fair bit of fighting in Torment, if you set your character and path to it. Just pump your points into 'muscle boy' attributes like strength and nmot wisdom, then keep on picking fights instead of taking the chances to talk your way out or reason with people. Play as evil for good measure. I really did love the way the game gave you this kind of choice, unlike the other RPGs where generally fighting was the rule, except in a few situations.


Now I feel like giving Torment another go. After all, my PC is almost entirely new thanks to that powercut which melted half the innards, so maybe Undersigil will work ...

If hardware weren't an issue I'd definitely say Bloodlines. Best RPG I've played in years. Deus Ex is superb. Definitely one to get if you have an older PC.

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Originally Posted by Simon Appleton

Yes, Wiz8 is very much on the opposite side of the combat -----roleplay spectrum to PST. Personally, I hated it. ~;)

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Heh, well, to each his own.

Honestly, I don't really remember much about wiz8's story. I'm the type that skips through all fo the dialog and only reads back when there's something specific I need to discover. So I have no idea if wiz8 is strong in immersion (though I've heard from others, especially others who have played the wiz series for a bit, that it is).

In combat and character development, however, wiz 8 simply rules supreme. I was surprised by this becuase it's a first person party-based rpg. But the number of strategic/tactical options in the game are simply mind-boggling; you have to approach it more as a RTW type of game than a PST.

For example, big on maces? Make a 3 man lord party, and hunt out diamond eyes in the hidden crypt in the mountain wilderness. Like ninjas and fairies? Solo a fairie ninja, sneak over to the rat king, pump yourself up with as many uber potions as you can get, and whack him in the back of the head to get his cane of corpus. Liek the rogue backstab ability? Well, find and equip bloodlust, and suddenly not only do you have a rogue, but you have one who can berserk like a fighter -- meaning up to 8x damage per blow (and the extra swings/attacks provided by bloodlust's intiaitve boost!)

The game is superbly well-designed because it gives you a lot of interesting tactical/development/equipment options. And it's not just all randomly thrown in there -- specific equipment/development strategies are optimal for specific races/classes. Finally, the game is HARD. Unlike most modern rpgs, the strategies and tactics you use actually really really matter. And if you've got a faerie fighter wielding a dagger (since faeries can wield very few normal-sized weapons), you will actually be punished for your bad development choice.

Contrast other modern rpgs -- the kotors, morrowinds, jade empires, fables, (and even the latest Dungeon Siege!)... where the emphasis is on "immersion" and "story." Well, one way to kill the immersion factor is to kill off the player's party for making poor development/class choices. Unfortunately, for those of us who put some thought into our games, this makes the experience rather dull. It's not a game any more -- it's a doll-dressing simulation.

Wiz8 (and possibly the gothic series) is perhaps the only game that deviates from this course in the past half decade. And it does so in spectacular fashion. I highly recommend it for anyone looking for a more cerebral rpg. And one that actually poses some challenge.

Hmm, I just ordered Bloodlines from an Amazon marketplace seller for under 4 quid. If it's as good as you guys say, that's really quite startling.

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Originally Posted by Big King Sanctaphrax

Hmm, I just ordered Bloodlines from an Amazon marketplace seller for under 4 quid. If it's as good as you guys say, that's really quite startling.

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Good purchase[1]. It's a crying shame that a company can produce something as good as that game and then go bust. ~:confused:

[1]BTW, one piece of advice when you get the game - do not play as a Malkavian on your first run through. You will appreciate the hilarious dialogue options much more if you have already played it straight.

Just an update on NWN - I finished the Dreamcatcher series just now and was blown out of the water. To put it in Org terms, that series is to NWN what EB will hopefully be to RTW. It was simply amazing what Adam Miller did with the toolset - e.g. he even got it to play space invaders, for crying out aloud! Plus dramatically, it was up there with the best CRPGs out there.

Lehesu - seriously save yourself some money and just download these modules! It's worth perservering with the Shadowlord mods despite them being a little pedestrian and clunky, as - like BG1 for BG2 - they get you in character (and thankfully are much more short and sweet than BG1). But it's with the Dreamcatcher series that the fireworks start.

Regarding Bloodlines, an unofficial patch has been released. I believe gamespot.com has it.

Regarding NWN, I absolutely loved Bone Kenning, where you can play an actual necromancer, but I was saddened to see that the series was never completed. That module had a LOT of potential.

Vagrant Story for PS1. You can still buy it direct from sony, or find it in a bargain bin. Just put the CD in the drive and run it on an emulator (like ePSXe) if you want to play it on your PC.

It's the best dungeon crawler/action RPG I've played on a console. The gameplay is not brainless hack/slash ala Diablo. The combat system is an infusion of action, strategy, and item crafting. The storyline is not very open-ended or deep but it's very unique as is the atmosphere of the game. The art style is not your typical anime fare even though it's still reminiscent of Japanese games.

I bought Bloodlines last week, it was only £4.

I've found it to be ok so far but it is very restrictive in what you can do, nowhere near as open as Morrowind. Don't think it will stay installed for very long.

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Originally Posted by Ja'chyra

I've found it to be ok so far but it is very restrictive in what you can do, nowhere near as open as Morrowind. Don't think it will stay installed for very long.

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Bloodlines is a different kind of game to Morrowind - a story-focussed RPG as opposed to a freeform one. I'm biased, but I'd say it is quality vs quantity.

Morrowind is a game where you can go anywhere, do anything. Someone once called it a world simulator. The main story is optional, as are the countless sidequests. The problem for me was that none of the people you meet are memorable and none of the quests seem particularly interesting.

Bloodlines has essentially a linear main story and a few sidequests per area (four areas total). Where it shines is in the depiction of its NPCs, innovative sidequests and immersion. But if you don't like the first area - Smiling Jack in the tutorial, Jeanette/her sister and the haunted hotel mission - you probably won't like the rest of the game. It peaks early.