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I'm considering join the US Army, what am I getting myself into. What is bootcamp like etc.
**Now to everyone else this isnt a bashing the US Armed Forces thread, so if you have your opinions then keep them to yourself or post them somewhere else. Learn to respect others stuff, this is an information thread only, thank you**
The Army does not have bootcamp.Quote:
I'm considering join the US Army, what am I getting myself into. What is bootcamp like etc.
Basic training is not bootcamp? I'm confused.
Azi
I'm a UsArmy woman, but fwiw:
It's easier than it sounds. I was pretty scared going in, but after a few weeks you get the idea of what's going on and how to deal with it.
Just remember not to listen to the idiots who say things, "Guys! Quit fooling around! You're gonna get them mad at us again!"
Tell that moron that it's basic training and the drill sergeants are going to be outraged no matter how well you guys are doing, for at least the first two thirds of it.
Anyway, most of it's actually pretty fun after the first few weeks of processing days and what-not. You just have to get over the mental stuff. Anyone can do push-ups and sit-ups with the amount of practice you'll get there. Unless getting yelled out by someone you've never met who's only doing their job affects you personally, you'll be fine.
What Fort are you doing basic at?
Eh, he's just being snide. The Army calls it basic training and the Marines call it boot. Our drill instructors would scuff up the entire company if we ever deigned to use Marine terms.Quote:
Originally Posted by Azi Tohak
:army:
No Im just being a Marine ~DQuote:
Eh, he's just being snide. The Army calls it basic training and the Marines call it boot. Our drill instructors would scuff up the entire company if we ever deigned to use Marine terms.
Your basic and our bootcamp can hardly be compared. Heck as you yourself demonstrate even a woman can make it through Army Basic training. ~D The Marines have a seperate bootcamp for women. We are a conservative organization ~;) You want it easy join the airforce. Navy bootcamp and Army basic are not so hard.. ~;)
USAF ALL THE WAY!Quote:
Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
I'm too fat and lazy to go USMC, though it would be great to be in the chain of command of a USMC Tank Battallion or somthing cool. I guess I'll just have to set my sights on SAC.
lol Good luck my man, make it through in one peice and go kick some [I dont feel like getting another warning level]!
If it wasn't for gals like me there'd be no one to fit you with a prosthetic after you lose a leg while playing Buffer Rodeo in the barracks, or whatever passes for mentally stimulating activity with your kind.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
:gring:
Don't sweat the small stuff - basic is what a person makes it. Keep a low profile, off the DI's radar and you'll be fine. If, however, they discover you or determine you to be in the special needs category - work yourself out of it.
When enlisting, choose an MOS carefully - do not be sucked into being a grunt. Unless, of course you truly enjoy being shot at. It ain't all that glamorous.
Basic is something like 18 weeks now. Was only 8 or 10 when I went through - many (many, many) moons ago. By the time you complete it you will be a fully qualified rifleman - the additional training for infantry is in cross weaponry, tactical, etc, etc, and additional P.T.
Jump school was 3 weeks when I was in, heard it is a bit longer now. But, all it was in my day was training one to jump out of a plane - period. ["The first week we will seperate the men from the boys. The second week we will seperate the men from the idiot. And, the third week the idiots will jump.]Once assigned to an Airborne unit one went through additional a much more elaborate training process - extensive. That much hasn't changed, but they are teaching the rope trick out of choppers now (which was an OJT thing for many - in 'nam).
So, pick an MOS that will be helpful in civy life - even if you intend to go to college afterwards. And don't sweat the small stuff. Also, keep you ass down, your head lower - and don't let those buttons get in your way of the ground. ~D
Without causing a war in here, I think everyone can agree that the USMC is the hardest and most prestigious of the branches.
It is the only branch where enlisted can carry a sword. You must be an officer in every other branch.
I think that about covers it.
Just join. Fear is natural. Courage is not the absence of fear, it is the conquest of it.
But I really recommend the Corps and I will be happy to give you some real insight if you would like.
Don't worry, you mostly get eight hours of sleep, three squares a day, and a warm bed. Mostly.
But you know what?
Look in the mirror when you are done my friend. You will have earned a title very few in this country have before you. And you will be distinct and unique and proud for the remainder of your life.
All it takes is vision (*I see the end*), determination (*I will do this*), and ability (*I am not retarded or disabled*). You can do it.
Side topic.
Wear swords... can you use them in combat and would you want to compared with a bayonet?
They're a branch of the navy, they've got approx. 100k total personnel at this point I THINK... they're overused in Iraq operations because the type of engagements mostly call for tough, reliable infantry with limited armored support... if it were a symmetric war with another major power the Tank Divisions and heavy Mechanized Infantry of the Army would be needed... as they were in both high-intensity phases of our 2 Iraq wars.
They are definitely the most rigorous branch of the military, with the exception of certain elite units of the Army, Navy, and Air Force. Promotions are generally slower, they have no 2 or 3 year enlistment options (minimum 4)... can you get a comission without having been enlisted? I'm not sure on this one. Anyone?
DA
Papewaio-- The Marines (and possibly army infantry) train with bayonets mostly for psychological purposes-- the odds of actually using one are slim, its thinking you're ready to that's important. As far as carrying swords in combat, I have a feeling that yes bayonets or just a knife would be far preferable.
Nah, the Marines are just the Army's little brother with a huge ego. Think Napoleon complex ~;)
http://www.usmc.mil/marinelink/websites.nsf/unitsalpha
They have four divisions (creatively, but sensibly named 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th Marine Divisions), but the 4th is a support, not combat, unit.
I really think this is interesting:
http://www.marines.mil/marinelink/we...nsf/unitsexped
How they are organized for expeditions.
But, the Army's TO&E can be found here:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/agency/army/
Azi
P.S. Gawain, and Divinus, you know I'm joking, but I just want to make sure everyone else does too. The Marines are an outstanding fighting force, but they're small, compared to the Army.
Oh... That is sooo..... gay..... ~D ~;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
CUBE,
Okay Okay.
Real stuff now. God, I still have tears in my eyes from that show the evil thread... ~D
The Marines have just Shy of 180k active duty.
Azi is correct, we are organized into four divisions: three active and one in reserve.
We also have four air wings, and four "Force Service Support Groups" (which are being renamed as Marine Logistics Groups in a month or two- a big change).
Anyway, each Marine Divisision, Air Wing, and FSSG together make up a MAGTF, or Marine Air Ground Task Force. It is basically a fully functioing mini-army that can be deployed anywhere in the world at an amazingly expedited pace.
The concept is this:
We have small detachments of Marines called a "MEU", which is a Marine Expeditionary Unit that goes on a float with the navy to a hotspot in the globe. Somewhere that might erupt in conflict, need stabilization, whatever. There our Marines sit for a few months in the local area. If something erupts, our MEU gets deployed ashore. Not just in boats, but up to a couple hundred miles in! We can have boots on the ground in less than 24 hours, and start kicking the shit out of bad guys. From there, if the MEU can't handle it, the larger MAGTF gets mobilized. But this has to be huge, like Iraq. Afghanistan only took a little more than a MEU to subdue, then the army came in behind us and further inland.
That is why we are sometimes called "America's 911 force" (not so much anymore becasue of Sept 11 911 association).
We are unique in the diversity of operations we can conduct, how quickly we can condeuct the operations, and how incredibly efficient we are at it.
Yes it is true, we fall under the department of the Navy, but we are largely a self-directing branch. That is why when you enlist in the Corps, you are not enlisting in the Navy. Because we are so small, it makes sense for us to utilize the Naval support systems such as medical, dental, offshore firepower, seabasing for deployment, etc.
Does this help?
I think its closer to 180000.Quote:
They're a branch of the navy, they've got approx. 100k total personnel at this point I THINK.
We will kick the Armys butt anytime. Again they have no real fixed wing aircraft. Numbers are their only hope ~DQuote:
The Marines are an outstanding fighting force, but they're small, compared to the Army.
We have 4 divisions but we also have an airforce. Plus various other units.Quote:
How big is a Divison these days? 20k or so? Put in perspective, that makes the marines pretty small, with about.. 5 Divisions?
We were talking of who has the toughest basic and who is in general the best trained , most motivated and elite of our regular troops. Thers no denying that as far as the American military goes the Marines are better than the Army or any other of the big three for that matter. No offense to any of you Army dudes or whatever they call you ~D
Nobody has carried swords in combat for a very long time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Papewaio
It is ceremonial mostly, but it is still a big deal. Swords have always been a sign of leadership in the emerging modern military heirarchy, since we actually started using gunpowder. Obviously, since the industrial revolution, it became less useful and was relegated to ceeremonial use for everyone.
Here's a young lad in command of his squad now:
https://img386.imageshack.us/img386/...06cpls12td.jpg
This Marine could be any one of you. A leader. Called upon by peers and fellows in times of crisis. Revered with awe by those outside. I still get ooohs and awes when I tell civilians that I'm a Marine. "Wow", they say. "Have you done anything exciting? Did you go to Iraq? Have you killed anyone? Isn't it hard?" I can see the change in their eyes when I tell them. Instant respect. Instant gratitude and appreciation. Instant wonder. Man and woman alike. "Wow. A United States Marine. Here. In front of me. I could never do that. Wow."
Here. Enjoy this fine site:
http://www.marines.com/
If you have never been a Marine I doubt you will understand what makes them so special. Its something intangible. You find to people who were in the army and they will say thats nice. But anytime two Marines meet its like meeting a long lost brother. It doesnt matter when they were in. In fact it doesnt even matter what country their from ~D . British Marines were always some of my Favorite blokes to go bar hopping with overseas. Marines stick together no matter where they are or when they have served.
So the short 'modern' answer for the use of swords in the modern military is: Bling that cuts.
Ya ya I know you are a 3rd dan ninja master that flips out and kills people. That is your purpose. I get it. I'll be sure not to open any windows.Quote:
Originally Posted by Papewaio
The only cutting ninjas I know of is the Shogun cut scenes.
I just find it interesting that in a modern millitary swords still have status... its rather cute.
CUTE?!Quote:
Originally Posted by Papewaio
Nah.. it is not for fun or "show".
It is a weapon with great history. It has simply evolved from a weapon to a symbol. It is respected. Carrying a sword officially for one's nation is a great honor.
Britsh Marines are the best. Their training and levels of fitness are obscene, always good to have around when things get wired. I always wish I'd joined the marines instead of the army when I was a lad, but I thought I wouldn't be able to slog it. Oh well.Quote:
British Marines were always some of my Favorite blokes to go bar hopping with overseas. Marines stick together no matter where they are or when they have served.
Anyway, to answer the original question... JOIN THE ARMY/MARINES/NAVY! It needs you, but more importantly YOU need it.
Del Arroyo:
In Iraq (last year I think) some British soldiers conducted the most recent bayonet charge in history and they emerged victorious. I don't think there were any British casualties. I'll try to find a link to some news stories or something, just to make sure it wasn't just a cute story I heard.
I was speaking to an ex-Gordon Highlander (he was in during the late 70s/early 80s) whom I used to work with, he had stories about bayonet training and he made it sound like a butchery course (cutting side up on the bayonet, put it under their breast bone and lift).
It's definately not a little story, it is true.
The Scotsman: Argylls fight hand to hand in Iraq
OUTNUMBERED British soldiers killed 35 Iraqi attackers in the Army’s first bayonet charge since the Falklands War 22 years ago. The fearless Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders stormed rebel positions after being ambushed and pinned down. Despite being outnumbered five to one, they suffered only three minor wounds in the hand-to-hand fighting near the city of Amara. The battle erupted after Land Rovers carrying 20 Argylls came under attack on a highway. After radioing for back-up, they fixed bayonets and charged at 100 rebels using tactics learned in drills. When the fighting ended bodies lay all over the highway — and more were floating in a nearby river. Nine rebels were captured.
That's why the British Army trains for the bayonet charge.
It's part of military tradition throughout the western hemisphere. Tradition in the military is important, it makes sure that the new kids joining their service know what their service has achieved for hundreds of years, although that is just part of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Papewaio
Impressive....Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Khalifah
Even though as a balance it should be mentioned that it did not work that way in Gallipoli..... :book:
The Scottish regiments have a rich tradition and all; but I can never again think of them without seeing the Monty Python sketch about the Scottish suicide commandos.
And consider joining the Navy, Shottie. You'll eat better. As far as I know crypto and nuclear power are still critical ratings which will earn you faster promotions and nice bonuses. And you don't have to wear green unless you go for UDT/Seal training. You would miss out on carrying a pretty sword and marching about chanting clever ditties or sitting in a bug infested tent eating MREs; but it's a tradeoff. ~D
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Khalifah
Unfortunately the days of the bayonet are numbered as most of the soldiers in a fire team can't even fit them to their weapons. The juries still out on what will replace them but the odds are the fighting knife.
The days of the bayonet in practical combat are indeed limitted, but it will certainly remain a part of training procedures indefinately.
6 weeks, United States Air Force "boot camp"!!! As we say in the great Chair Force...
Simply Fi!!! ~D
Don't get caught up in the hype!
Weigh your options, find the course of study with the best opportunity (to be applied after you return to civilian life) and go with it.
Marines always get teary eyed reminiscing about boot, and sloggying thru the muck. Don't buy into the crap that their more elite than a soldier - they just have bigger heads. It's all that propagandic Semper Fi (always faithful) soup that was poured down their gullet in training. Good troops, but no better trained than the general infantry - and not nearly as well equpped (Navy likes to keep them poor). Their primary tactic remains "Hey diddle diddle straight up the middle". ~D
J/K, btw. Stirs the pot. ~:handball:
I've known marines all of my life and I have always been impressed. I have respect for all of our uniformed personnel.
To those of you serving or who have served, thank you.
To those of you who will serve in the future, thank you too.
To the thread originator -- do it. I never served (happenstance and distraction mostly) -- I now regret it.
Side Note:
As with all services, a marine officer may be commissioned upon graduation from one of our nation's military academies.
Seamus
Which branch would be best for short term? And for long term (career)?
It seems that Marines have a longer commitment (4 yrs) it wouldn’t make much sense go that direction if one was just going to go back into the “real world” afterwards.
I would imagine that the air force would be the safest/least likely to get killed in but are there as many advancement opportunities?
Depends on what you want to do. Each Military Service has different skills that need filled. From individuals that do the simple grunt work - be it able seamen, infantry, or whatever they have in the airforce.Quote:
Originally Posted by yesdachi
Pick a job that you want to do - and ask the Recruiter to explain the promotion scheme for that MOS. Some MOS's stop at lower ranks and transfer to a new one - others maintain the same throughout their career.
Officer Ranks work the same way in that aspect. Personally I am partial to my old Branch in the Army - Field Artillery. But other branches do better on the promotion cycle then the heavy bottom - light top that is Artillery, Infantry, Armor, and Engineer.
Read the contract carefully - a lot of the enlistment contracts in the Army while it is for a 2 year active duty committment - have a individual ready reserve commentment on them also.Quote:
It seems that Marines have a longer commitment (4 yrs) it wouldn’t make much sense go that direction if one was just going to go back into the “real world” afterwards.
You would have to ask DD on that - however in the Army in 2000 it was possible to get promoted to SPC/E-4 within 24 to 36 monthes. I promoted a PFC to SPC when I was a commander at 23 monthes - but the average during my 18 monthes in command was about 28-39 monthes from Enlistment date. The fastest I saw a 13B get promoted to SGT/E-5 was 38 monthes.Quote:
I would imagine that the air force would be the safest/least likely to get killed in but are there as many advancement opportunities?
Well with the Air Force you can get a guranteed job (don't let the recuiter tell you otherwise). I did 10 years, within that time I re-enlisted once so I didn't have to worry about innactive reserve (this is where you serve 4 to 6 years active, then have 4 to 6 years of innactive duty with the possibility to get called back up, which rarely happens BTW). I was a computer operator and now I'm making good money basically doing now what i did then. It all depends on what you want. Some people will tell you not to go into the Army or Marines because you'll only be a infantry guy or whatever. That's not true, there are thousands of other jobs in all the Branches that you can transfer your experience into the civilian world. Military service just helps you focus a little more on your life while providing a service for your country. I'm biased, so I'll tell you to go Air Force. It was a great time with good people. Regardless of the branch of service you choose, you will love it, atleast once boot camp is over.
If you have specific questions, fire away, there are plenty of grizzled old vets in here that can provide good answers...
I don’t want to mislead anyone; I have no intention in joining the military. I’m too old now but in HS I considered it before I injured my knee (hyper extended it playing football :wall: ). However it is a topic I have been curious about and the info might help Shottie with a decision. So, keep it coming, I’m a sponge! :bow:
On the subject of faster promotions, the Navy has special rules for what it considers critical ratings. The two which I know were critical ratings were nuclear power and crypto, it may be different ratings now. If you agree to a critical rating assignment in the Navy, many of them have 6 year enlistments. This is because you'll spend so much time in training. In nuc power, for example, you'll be in training for almost two years, sometimes more. In exchange for the long enlistment (it's actually a 4 year enlistment with a 2 year extension), time in grade requirments are for the most part waived. Critical ratings make E-3 on the day they finish basic training. They make E-4 when they finish A school (which can take from 4-9 months or so), you'll have access to your first E-5 test sometime before you've been in 24 months, and if you score high enough on it, then you'll have made E-5 before you've been in 24 months. It's not uncommon for critical ratings to make E-8 and sometimes E-9 before they've been in 10 years. I knew a couple of master chiefs (E-9's) who had only been in 11 years. I also knew a couple of senior chiefs who went the WO route and became warrant officers at 10 years, and a couple who went from E-8 to OCS and moved up to O-2 immediately upon graduation. It's all what you make of the opportunity in a critical rating.
I suspect that critical ratings work somewhat the same way in the other branches, though perhaps not exactly the same. And re-enlistment bonuses for critical ratings can be very lucrative. When I was in 25 years ago, the re-up bonus for my job was $25,000, and if you did it on the right day, because of the 4+2 initial enlistment, you only extended your time another 2 for a total of 8. $25K was a lotof bread for a young guy back then. I'm not sure what it is now.
Wise words. Even in the Marines and army most people are not grunts. When I joined I was what they call aviation garrunteed. In other words I was garrunteed to be in the airwing. No 20 mile humps and no people shooting at this boy. Or so I thought ~;) But really most of my time was spent going to school. I went to aviation school teaching you the basics of aviation, then basic electronics school. After that they gave you a choice of MOSs by your place in the class. In other words those with the highest ranking(me ~D ) get first pick of the available spots.I chose photo recon. So it was off to Pensacola for 4 monthas of basic photography and then advance photgraphy school. Your then sent to a squadron for some OJT. Every few months its off to another school like a systems school on the particular systems used in Your MOS and aircraft. So after all this electronics and potography trainingg what did I do when I got out? I went right back to the same old job I had before I went in. Being a projectionist. Really dumb of me now that I look back on it. Nothing prepares you better for a good job in civilian life than the military. Id like to add that no matter what branch you choose I am proud of you for offering your services to our country.Quote:
It all depends on what you want. Some people will tell you not to go into the Army or Marines because you'll only be a infantry guy or whatever. That's not true, there are thousands of other jobs in all the Branches that you can transfer your experience into the civilian world.
Oh man I cant believe what I just found. My eyes are tearing up as I post this. Heres one of my birds I used to work on. Man I was all over this thing.
Good old double nuts.
http://rf4bphantom.ms11.net//images/schemej2a.jpg
Brings back many fond memeories. Well this has given me the idea for another thread.
My Dad worked on F-4's during Nam. ~DQuote:
Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
I miss the life sometimes.. ~:)
The C in VMCJ refers to it being a composite squadron.In other words we operated two types of aircraft. Heres the other.
http://www.cloud9photography.us/e/E3...atsumiWada.jpg
These babies were jammers. They were sent in ahead of the photo aircraft as we carried no weapons. Speed was our main defence and of coures the EA-B Prowlers abiltiy to make us invisible.
About joining US armed forces : wait until the Iraki mess is over, take care of your health ~;)
About what to join : cover your ass & take info on what can be done AFTER with the path you'll have chosen. Full-life careers are scarce, better prepare the after.
About what branch to join : don't listen them. Everyone will tell you its branch is the best one. Was the same in franch army(was conscripted, didn't like it, but some did). We "Chasseurs Alpins" were told we were kickass. Same for Paras. Same for Marine infantry(who depends upon the army in France, but otherwise has same missions than US marines). Same for "fusillers-commandos"(air force's infantry, trained towards short but tough battles). And so on.....
About bayonets : I'm pretty sure in Iraq in 2003, a guy from Guatemala(or maybe Panama?), short on ammo, did charge alone with its bayonet in hand before getting slaughtered. He managed to make the ambushers flee. Nice job, man! :charge: .
If you can stomach to medical field, give it a shot. I went in as a combat medic, got picked up for occupational therapy assistant school, and then made $26 dollars an hour when I got out. At the time, that was like winning the lottery for me, after making like $6-8 an hour until I was 20 or so.
Don't let these guys kid you, though. 99% of all MOSs lead to being an $8-an-hour security guard in the civilian world. Either do something fun, or make sure you can get a decent job with your military skills later. Ask around at temp agencies and other employment services and get a feel for what military career paths also have valuable skills to the private sector.
Putting 'proficient with suppression fire and flanking maneuvers' on your resume to IBM might not work very well, but maybe you could land a job at the Post Office. (ba dum bump ching!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Proletariat
It landed me a job as a supervisor for a manafactur of fincial documents. ~D
Is that what they pay you. Damn Prol thats the biggest load of BS youve ever spewed forth. Again theres no better traing for a job than you get n the military. Do you think theres for instance no jobs in the aviation electronics field? How about those from the motor pool. Do you think they will be mechanics or security guards when they get out? Even MPs tend to become police.In fact its pretty easy for anyone with military experience to become one. Eductaion and learning a skill is one of the major reasons people join the armed forces. Dont listen to her please. Hell even the grunts can now mercenaries. ~DQuote:
Don't let these guys kid you, though. 99% of all MOSs lead to being an $8-an-hour security guard in the civilian world.
I'm not military, so take my next comments with this in mind. My dad worked for the US Army TRADOC and FORSCOM though, so I'm a little familiar with the way the army works. And maybe the real service(wo)men here can chime in on this.
The US military (I believe the Army is the worst hit) is having problems meeting their recruitment quotas. We all can argue about why this is, but for the sake of this thread let's not get into it here ~;) . Say you sign up for the Army, and want to follow a particular skill path (not infantry). If the Army needs boots in the desert, I'm thinking that chances are good that you are going to be cleaning sand out of your rifle after basic training, regardless of your desired path.
I don't know what kind of guarantees you get when you enlist these days, but this might be something to keep in mind. Any thoughts from those that have been through the military's bureaucracy?
Good luck with your choice though. You will be honored, even if your leaders aren't. :bow:
Reminds me of my 1-year conscription in the Royal Norwegian Air Force, Norway's kindergarten. There's a rivalry between the four branches in Norway's military, and often in bars there can be a fight between the 'quack-quacks' (Navy & Marines) or 'flyfillene'/air-sluts (Air Force) or Army guys.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
However, if any civilians attacked a military person, every soldier jumped them no matter what branch.
From a Norwegian perspective: Marines seems to be the most prestigous.
And if you join them and come to Norway for excercise, then remember warm clothes, so you won't freeze as the last marines did. ~D
Quote:
Originally Posted by KafirChobee
Another jealous non-Marine.
Ever hear a Marine say these things?
As for your comments on tactical idiocy and brainwashing, I will allow the history and everyman percpetion of the Marine Corps to speak for itself.
To re-answer the question:
You have to decide what it is that you want and what is important first.
Do an honest self-assessment and see where your desires lay and understand what "it means to be you".
Each branch is different and has its advantages. The truth is, the Marine Corps is the elite of the branches, but that also means discipline is harder, training is harder, and failure is less acceptable. Yes, you will have a rougher time as a young person in the Marine Corps. And I think no one doubts any of this.
If you want to relax and not feel much like you are in the military, than join the air force. If you want to travel without seeing the hard times like Marines, then join the Navy.
I do not recommend joining the Army unless you have a long family history of it. The army does have many options for training, but you can find a similar program in any of the other branches.
If you have ANY desire to join the Marines, then do not join another service. You will seriously regret it. I have know many from other branhces who "wish they went in the Marine Corps". Marines are looked at as more prestigious and there is a valid reason for this. Imagine if the Coast Guard just starting saying that they were more badass than the Marines! They would get laughed at. Same thing with the army. The only thing the army can do is squabble about their own "best of" troops like rangers and berets.
I hope this helped.
Unless you're in the Navy, in which case you'll look at Marines as passengers. ~;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Divinus Arma
Unless you're in the sub fleet, in which case you'll look at the Marines as unfortunate passengers on a floating target.