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Cases which show that judges have lost all sense of justice.
Recently there has been a thread here in the backroom where members were debating on the validity of trial by jury and the possibility of more cases being decided by the judges. Now we see several cases where judges have lost any sense of justice whatsoever.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/e...re/4221728.stm
For those who have not read the link, a 71 year old vicar has been imprisoned for 28 for refusing to pay a council tax bill of 61 pounds, which had been put up above the rate of inflation and which represents over a tenth of his monthly income. Not only is the Reverend Alfred Ridley imprisoned, he is ent ot a category A prison, one usually reserved for murderers, gangster and terrorists. He now has to share his cell with a brutal thug. The stupidity of this conviction is further demonstrated when the costs of imprisoning the Vicar is 3000 pounds.
Now the Sentencing Guidelines Council has recommended that murderers be set free after a ten zear sentence, often being let go if their behaviour is good. Under 17 vandalism is be treated as "low seriousness" and should be handed the ridiculously ineffective Anti-Social Behaviour orders. They also recommend that parents who use smacking as a regular form of discipline be treated the same way as those who nassault and abuse them. However, a notorious crack dealer has been handed another ASBO to add to her collection.
Do you really think these judges have any sense of justice?
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Re: Cases which show that judges have lost all sense of justice.
The man who commited the Lockerbie bombing only got 27 years imprisonment...
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Re: Cases which show that judges have lost all sense of justice.
You are right, 27 days is far too lenient. Shoot the vicar, he is asking for it. :klingon:
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Re : Cases which show that judges have lost all sense of justice.
I don't get the big deal. If that retired old man has got nothing better to do with his time anymore than to fight a £541 tax because he believes it's up to him and not a democratically elected council to set tax rates, so be it.
Go judge!
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Re: Cases which show that judges have lost all sense of justice.
Well in Finland we recently had a case of our Supreme Court ruling that a father that had been french kissing his sons (born in 1993 and 1995), wasn't guilty of abusing them sexually due the fact that he wasn't looking for sexual pleasure. According to the Supreme Court there must be an intent of gaining sexual pleasure for something to be classified as sexual abuse.
I think this a pretty good example of the fallacy of Judges too... ~;)
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Re: Cases which show that judges have lost all sense of justice.
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Originally Posted by 1pain1Duck
Well in Finland we recently had a case of our Supreme Court ruling that a father that had been french kissing his sons (born in 1993 and 1995), wasn't guilty of abusing them sexually due the fact that he wasn't looking for sexual pleasure. According to the Supreme Court there must be an intent of gaining sexual pleasure for something to be classified as sexual abuse.
I think this a pretty good example of the fallacy of Judges too... ~;)
Rrright.. Well, it just goes to show, doesn't it? I mean the evidence is overwhelming.
:dizzy2:
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Re: Cases which show that judges have lost all sense of justice.
Seeing as that Vicar was knowingly disobeying the law, the punishment seems pretty reasonable to me.
What was the judge supposed to say? 'Yeah, that tax is a bit harsh, I'll let you off'?
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Re: Cases which show that judges have lost all sense of justice.
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Originally Posted by King Henry V
which had been put up above the rate of inflation and which represents over a tenth of his monthly income.
So he has taken it upon himself to decide what council rates should be? If he refuses to pay the rates then the penalty is imprisonment. He knew what he was doing.
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Originally Posted by King Henry V
Not only is the Reverend Alfred Ridley imprisoned, he is ent ot a category A prison, one usually reserved for murderers, gangster and terrorists. He now has to share his cell with a brutal thug.
Since when have judges determined what prison a criminal is sent to? As far as I can tell that is a function of a Justice Department, or Correctional Services Department, not of a Judge.
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Originally Posted by King Henry V
The stupidity of this conviction is further demonstrated when the costs of imprisoning the Vicar is 3000 pounds.
So are you suggesting that a financial crime only becomes a crime when it becomes cost effective to pursue it? Are you suggesting that the government should let anyone who has udner 3000 pounds worth of tax unpaid just ignore that tax? And while we are here, why exactly is this the fault of the judge? He didn't bring the case, the government did. Also since when does being an elderly vicar entitle you to avoid tax?
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Originally Posted by King Henry V
Now the Sentencing Guidelines Council has recommended that murderers be set free after a ten zear sentence, often being let go if their behaviour is good. Under 17 vandalism is be treated as "low seriousness" and should be handed the ridiculously ineffective Anti-Social Behaviour orders. They also recommend that parents who use smacking as a regular form of discipline be treated the same way as those who nassault and abuse them. However, a notorious crack dealer has been handed another ASBO to add to her collection.
The SGC is as far as I can tell, an advisory body only. The only weight it carries is that of the scholarly respect that the judges have from it. In fact, by going through their site, I quickly found that (like most other nations) maximum sentences are established in statutes. I think you will find that minimum sentences are also established via teh relevant statutes. If you want harsher sentences, lobby the government to change the sentencing structure - the judge has to work out where a crime sits on the scale, and at times they will sit low on that scale. If you feel the scale is inapropriate, the judge should not be the target of your ire, it should be those who have the power to change the framework that the judge must work within.
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Originally Posted by King Henry V
Do you really think these judges have any sense of justice?
Yes, yes I do feel they do. The fact that they have a sense of justice that is relatively impartial, compared to the mob mentality that the general public displays does not mean they do not have a sense of justice - indeed they have been chosen to deliver sentences, partially because they are impartial, and are unlikely to be swayed by public opinion.
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Re: Cases which show that judges have lost all sense of justice.
I reckon that imprisonment for 4 weeks is just silly. He should just get a decent fine and be done with it. Such a gaol sentence just fills up cells which could be used for more serious criminals. However, the council tax bills are just getting ridiculous, especially for the pensioners who have a small income to pay the taxes and their food...
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Re: Cases which show that judges have lost all sense of justice.
I see no problem with it what so ever, well I tell a lie I see two problems.
1) He shouldn't be sent to jail. No one should be sent to jail for not paying taxes, they should be given other forms of punishment, we should not simply be a nation which goes 'JAIL!!!' for every single breakage of law. There are other, far better, forms of punishment for actions such as this, such as community service, for after all it is the community he is failing by not paying his taxes anyway.
Jail should strictly be reserved for the most serious of crimes and then those who commit those crimes undergoing rehabilitation in jail like places, not abandonment as it is at the moment.
2) He is a Christian indoctrinator in chief and should be in jail anyway. All Christians should be thoroughly questioned and put into jail if any show real zeal enough to become a priest.
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Re: Cases which show that judges have lost all sense of justice.
I see that this is a response to the other thread. But let's see all this cases you're talking about are on nations that have that incredibly archaic and flawled system....mmmm... the "common law". Right? The problem is that this system really needs juries, without them it can turn so arbitrary that it will be unbearable.
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Re: Cases which show that judges have lost all sense of justice.
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Originally Posted by JAG
2) He is a Christian indoctrinator in chief and should be in jail anyway. All Christians should be thoroughly questioned and put into jail if any show real zeal enough to become a priest.
Now that is funny - the problem though is even though I know its sarcasm - some of your earlier posts on religion could lead one to assume you are serious.
:dizzy2: ~:eek:
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Re: Cases which show that judges have lost all sense of justice.
You will simply have to wonder. ~:cool:
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Re: Cases which show that judges have lost all sense of justice.
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Originally Posted by JAG
You will simply have to wonder. ~:cool:
Now wondering at all for me - ~:handball:
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Re: Cases which show that judges have lost all sense of justice.
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Originally Posted by JAG
2) He is a Christian indoctrinator in chief and should be in jail anyway. All Christians should be thoroughly questioned and put into jail if any show real zeal enough to become a priest.
HAHAHAHA CRAZY SOCIALIST AND HIS CRAZY IDEALS
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Re: Cases which show that judges have lost all sense of justice.
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Originally Posted by Big King Sanctaphrax
Seeing as that Vicar was knowingly disobeying the law, the punishment seems pretty reasonable to me.
What was the judge supposed to say? 'Yeah, that tax is a bit harsh, I'll let you off'?
28 years in a prision where Murderers, Rapists, etc stay? That'd be like putting me on death row for a parking violation.
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Re: Cases which show that judges have lost all sense of justice.
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Originally Posted by Kaiser of Arabia
28 years in a prision where Murderers, Rapists, etc stay? That'd be like putting me on death row for a parking violation.
28 days.
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Re: Cases which show that judges have lost all sense of justice.
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Originally Posted by Kaiser of Arabia
28 years in a prision where Murderers, Rapists, etc stay? That'd be like putting me on death row for a parking violation.
:dizzy2:
28 DAYS
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Re: Cases which show that judges have lost all sense of justice.
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Originally Posted by Kaiser of Arabia
28 years in a prision where Murderers, Rapists, etc stay? That'd be like putting me on death row for a parking violation.
Look, it is the vicar's own fault if he kissed that Finnish judge on the mouth. Phew, the excuses people come up with...
I say shoot them all. :klingon:
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Re: Cases which show that judges have lost all sense of justice.
Typo, sorry. I meant days :P I''m used to saying years in prison, slipped out.
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Re: Cases which show that judges have lost all sense of justice.
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Originally Posted by JAG
2) He is a Christian indoctrinator in chief and should be in jail anyway. All Christians should be thoroughly questioned and put into jail if any show real zeal enough to become a priest.
Ah, the true tolerance of the left shining through... What hypocracy.
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Re: Cases which show that judges have lost all sense of justice.
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Originally Posted by Devastatin Dave
Ah, the true tolerance of the left shining through... What hypocracy.
I love the "Report Bad Post" button. :bow:
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Re: Cases which show that judges have lost all sense of justice.
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Now that is funny - the problem though is even though I know its sarcasm - some of your earlier posts on religion could lead one to assume you are serious.
Ball 1!
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HAHAHAHA CRAZY SOCIALIST AND HIS CRAZY IDEALS
Strike 1!
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Ah, the true tolerance of the left shining through... What hypocracy.
Strike 2!
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I love the "Report Bad Post" button.
Strike 3!
YOUR OUTTA HERE!!!!!!!
*chuckles*
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Re: Cases which show that judges have lost all sense of justice.
:stop:
Baseball is not for Britts.
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Re: Cases which show that judges have lost all sense of justice.
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Re: Cases which show that judges have lost all sense of justice.
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Re: Cases which show that judges have lost all sense of justice.
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Originally Posted by Kanamori
Make me.
Sure. Saying baseball is not for Brits is as ignorant as saying being thin is not for Americans.
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Re: Cases which show that judges have lost all sense of justice.
Which is like saying being sober is not for British youth.
Crazed Rabbit
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Re: Cases which show that judges have lost all sense of justice.
The same could be said for Wisconsin's youth ~;)
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Re: Cases which show that judges have lost all sense of justice.
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Re: Cases which show that judges have lost all sense of justice.
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The same could be said for Wisconsin's youth
I've heard the UW rated, by different sources, the biggest party school in the country.
Crazed Rabbit
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Re: Cases which show that judges have lost all sense of justice.
It did, for some time I think it's been that way, but it's just Wisconsin in general. We are all German and drinking.
In the mail, as soon as I get an adress.
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Re: Cases which show that judges have lost all sense of justice.
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Originally Posted by JAG
Ball 1!
Strike 1!
Strike 2!
Strike 3!
YOUR OUTTA HERE!!!!!!!
*chuckles*
My post was satire there fore I want 2 balls
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Re: Cases which show that judges have lost all sense of justice.
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Originally Posted by strike for the south
My post was satire there fore I want 2 balls
Well if your a male - you already have them. :balloon2:
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Re: Cases which show that judges have lost all sense of justice.
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Originally Posted by King Malcolm
I reckon that imprisonment for 4 weeks is just silly. He should just get a decent fine and be done with it. Such a gaol sentence just fills up cells which could be used for more serious criminals. However, the council tax bills are just getting ridiculous, especially for the pensioners who have a small income to pay the taxes and their food...
Fine him for not paying taxes. :dizzy2: What are you going to do when he doesn't pay those fines? Fine him again? :dizzy2:
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Re: Cases which show that judges have lost all sense of justice.
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Originally Posted by dgb
Fine him for not paying taxes. :dizzy2: What are you going to do when he doesn't pay those fines? Fine him again? :dizzy2:
No in fact there's ways to make his life imposible. You can cut out the credit, seize his property to the point of leaving him with just the necessary, and things like that, you see the cohercion can be used in various ways.
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Re: Cases which show that judges have lost all sense of justice.
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Originally Posted by Soulforged
No in fact there's ways to make his life imposible. You can cut out the credit, seize his property to the point of leaving him with just the necessary, and things like that, you see the cohercion can be used in various ways.
I know all of that. But the fact is, if they haven't worked allready (due to unpaid taxes), I fail to see how just making the value larger will do anything.
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Re: Cases which show that judges have lost all sense of justice.
Give to Caesar what is Caesar's... So he is not setting a very good example as a Vicar.
He first wouldn't pay because it was above the inflation rate. What is the logic behind that? What if the council had increased services? Local inflation could be higher? What are council funds for... the local community.
Then he was given a suspended sentence and refused to pay. So he disobeyed the court.
Tongue in cheek:
All in all this is an old coot who puts money above community. Hardly law abiding nor very Chrisitain when you cherish money above others.
He deserves to go to jail.
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Re: Cases which show that judges have lost all sense of justice.
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Originally Posted by Papewaio
Then he was given a suspended sentence and refused to pay. So he disobeyed the court.
Ahh, i didn't know that, well that changes everything. Cohercion must be used when all other means fail.
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Re: Cases which show that judges have lost all sense of justice.
Wouldnt it be cool if he broke out and went on a crime spree failing to pay tolls and parking in handicapped spots, perhaps even jaywalking or perhaps preaching loudly after quiet hours.
The ultimate scene would come when he jumped the fence at Buckingham Palace and held a bible to the throat of a member of the royal family. At which point Charles would whip out a rare, yet beautiful 17th century sword and chop the old boy up.
The Vicar, at trial, is awarded Buckingham Palace as compensation for his injuries. Unfortunatley he cannot raise the money to pay the local council taxes, and wound up before a judge for that. Charles receives an Anti Social Behavior Order and is requires to surrender the sword to authorities.
ichi :bow:
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Re: Cases which show that judges have lost all sense of justice.
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Originally Posted by ichi
Wouldnt it be cool if he broke out and went on a crime spree failing to pay tolls and parking in handicapped spots, perhaps even jaywalking or perhaps preaching loudly after quiet hours.
The ultimate scene would come when he jumped the fence at Buckingham Palace and held a bible to the throat of a member of the royal family. At which point Charles would whip out a rare, yet beautiful 17th century sword and chop the old boy up.
The Vicar, at trial, is awarded Buckingham Palace as compensation for his injuries. Unfortunatley he cannot raise the money to pay the local council taxes, and wound up before a judge for that. Charles receives an Anti Social Behavior Order and is requires to surrender the sword to authorities.
ichi :bow:
Lmfao! :bow:
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Re: Re : Cases which show that judges have lost all sense of justice.
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Originally Posted by Louis IV the Fat
I don't get the big deal. If that retired old man has got nothing better to do with his time anymore than to fight a £541 tax because he believes it's up to him and not a democratically elected council to set tax rates, so be it.
Go judge!
Why is that be cause some politician says "I'm the democratically elected representive of the people" they think that the sun shines out of their backside and they can do no wrong.
What this shows is that councils charge a bomb of money for absolutely rubbish service. Government pensions however, are hardly enough to feed and house people, let alone pay taxes and others.
I do not think that he should not be punished. However, 28 days in prison is unduly harsh when child abusers get five year sentences, and murderers can leave prison after 10 with good behaviour.
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Re: Re : Cases which show that judges have lost all sense of justice.
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Originally Posted by King Henry V
Why is that be cause some politician says "I'm the democratically elected representive of the people" they think that the sun shines out of their backside and they can do no wrong.
What this shows is that councils charge a bomb of money for absolutely rubbish service. Government pensions however, are hardly enough to feed and house people, let alone pay taxes and others.
I do not think that he should not be punished. However, 28 days in prison is unduly harsh when child abusers get five year sentences, and murderers can leave prison after 10 with good behaviour.
So your problem reduces to penal scale, and not to if there should or shouldn't be punishment... Well in that case you'll have to investigate your own law system that's very unstable, and confirm if this is really unjust. I don't believe it, a punishment of less than one month will be absurd.
