No shame The federal response to Katrina was not as portrayed

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Jack Kelly: No shame
The federal response to Katrina was not as portrayed
Sunday, September 11, 2005

It is settled wisdom among journalists that the federal response to the devastation wrought by Hurricane Katrina was unconscionably slow.


Jack Kelly is national security writer for the Post-Gazette and The Blade of Toledo, Ohio (jkelly@post-gazette.com, 412-263-1476).

"Mr. Bush's performance last week will rank as one of the worst ever during a dire national emergency," wrote New York Times columnist Bob Herbert in a somewhat more strident expression of the conventional wisdom.

But the conventional wisdom is the opposite of the truth.

Jason van Steenwyk is a Florida Army National Guardsman who has been mobilized six times for hurricane relief. He notes that:

"The federal government pretty much met its standard time lines, but the volume of support provided during the 72-96 hour was unprecedented. The federal response here was faster than Hugo, faster than Andrew, faster than Iniki, faster than Francine and Jeanne."

For instance, it took five days for National Guard troops to arrive in strength on the scene in Homestead, Fla. after Hurricane Andrew hit in 1992. But after Katrina, there was a significant National Guard presence in the afflicted region in three.

Journalists who are long on opinions and short on knowledge have no idea what is involved in moving hundreds of tons of relief supplies into an area the size of England in which power lines are down, telecommunications are out, no gasoline is available, bridges are damaged, roads and airports are covered with debris, and apparently have little interest in finding out.

So they libel as a "national disgrace" the most monumental and successful disaster relief operation in world history.

I write this column a week and a day after the main levee protecting New Orleans breached. In the course of that week:

More than 32,000 people have been rescued, many plucked from rooftops by Coast Guard helicopters.

The Army Corps of Engineers has all but repaired the breaches and begun pumping water out of New Orleans.

Shelter, food and medical care have been provided to more than 180,000 refugees.

Journalists complain that it took a whole week to do this. A former Air Force logistics officer had some words of advice for us in the Fourth Estate on his blog, Moltenthought:

"We do not yet have teleporter or replicator technology like you saw on 'Star Trek' in college between hookah hits and waiting to pick up your worthless communications degree while the grown-ups actually engaged in the recovery effort were studying engineering.

"The United States military can wipe out the Taliban and the Iraqi Republican Guard far more swiftly than they can bring 3 million Swanson dinners to an underwater city through an area the size of Great Britain which has no power, no working ports or airports, and a devastated and impassable road network.

"You cannot speed recovery and relief efforts up by prepositioning assets (in the affected areas) since the assets are endangered by the very storm which destroyed the region.

"No amount of yelling, crying and mustering of moral indignation will change any of the facts above."

"You cannot just snap your fingers and make the military appear somewhere," van Steenwyk said.

Guardsmen need to receive mobilization orders; report to their armories; draw equipment; receive orders and convoy to the disaster area. Guardsmen driving down from Pennsylvania or Navy ships sailing from Norfolk can't be on the scene immediately.

Relief efforts must be planned. Other than prepositioning supplies near the area likely to be afflicted (which was done quite efficiently), this cannot be done until the hurricane has struck and a damage assessment can be made. There must be a route reconnaissance to determine if roads are open, and bridges along the way can bear the weight of heavily laden trucks.

And federal troops and Guardsmen from other states cannot be sent to a disaster area until their presence has been requested by the governors of the afflicted states.

Exhibit A on the bill of indictment of federal sluggishness is that it took four days before most people were evacuated from the Louisiana Superdome.

The levee broke Tuesday morning. Buses had to be rounded up and driven from Houston to New Orleans across debris-strewn roads. The first ones arrived Wednesday evening. That seems pretty fast to me.

A better question -- which few journalists ask -- is why weren't the roughly 2,000 municipal and school buses in New Orleans utilized to take people out of the city before Katrina struck?

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http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/dai....ImageFile.gif

LINK

So just like the talk of thousands of deaths it seems alot more than just the hurricane was blowing wind here.

Now that Brown has stepped down isint it time for the mayor and the Govenor to follow suit?

What no replies? I guess the truth isnt as much fun as what the press tells you.

I dunno, maybe it's because of the ton of similar topics around here already?

Theres none saying that the feds did their job just the opposite.

I can see your point, I'm just getting fed up of every other topic being about Katrina, particularly with worthwhile discussions going on in a number of them; it's not the opinion posted here I object to, but the fact that it could just as easily have been put in one of the existing topics rather than drawing attention to it in a new one. The fact that other posters have started similar topics advocating the opposite view to yours (which to me is just as annoying) doesn't mean you should post some kind of counter-topic.

Not much beef in there Gawain, it omits the truth in many instances. No kidding it will be the biggest, DUH! It is the biggest natural disaster the country has ever had. Also note that the Andrew response was considered poor and resulted in reworking of disaster response, so comparing to it is dishonest. There was another wake up call with 9/11, but if anything the result has been a weakened Federal response.

No matter how you try to spin it, there was not a Federal presence in a reasonable amount of time. There still is not a Federal system for handling the aftermath. It is a very spotty patchwork, no centralization. Things that the Feds said they would provide during the "Pam" scenario they did not provide. They also staged much of the response material (water, MRE's) for Alabama...rather than for the Louisiana side during the prep for land fall. The Corps thought it could repair any breaches quickly immediately after the storm passed. That was their planning...yet they lacked materials on hand to do it. The Guard didn't have communication gear in country to deal with the damaged infrastructure (it's in Iraq.)

This sort of disaster requires a strong response within a short time. If major activity (water/shelter/food/evacuation depending on situation) does not arrive within the critical 48 to 72 hour window (after the strike) then the initial response is a failure. That's what the *professionals* have had to say about it.

This sort of response will not cut it against biological or radioligical attack. In fact, with the difficulty of decontamination, and protecting those going into the zones, I suspect the response might take a month or more, after watching the Federal Katrina response. This is unacceptable in light of 9/11 and the charge given our government as a result.

The system needs to be rebuilt from the ground up. It simply doesn't work.

So now its 2000 buses , yesterday it was nearly 400 , then definately over 400 ~D ~D ~D
Playing the blame game Gawain ? Give it up .
Ballsups went through every level from the top to the bottom . Live with it .

the most monumental and successful disaster relief operation in world history.
Now you know Kelly is only talking out of his "donkey"

Well lets look what President Bush has to say on the issue. From the breaking news

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WASHINGTON - President Bush said Tuesday that "I take responsibility" for failures in dealing with Hurricane Katrina and said the disaster raised broader questions about the government's ability to respond to natural disasters as well as terror attacks.

"Katrina exposed serious problems in our response capability at all levels of government," Bush said at joint White House news conference with the president of Iraq.

"To the extent the federal government didn't fully do its job right, I take responsibility," Bush said.

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http://www.comcast.net/news/national...13/220427.html

Its long but the first three paragraphs are important to the story.

This is the first time I've ever seen Bush take responsibility for something that went wrong. Refreshing.

There were some interesting comments about the light this shed on the Federal ability to deal with terrorist attacks. While he didn't outright admit that we don't really have a system that can adequately handle it, this part seems relevant and implies that we are not prepared:

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The president was asked whether people should be worried about the government's ability to handle another terrorist attack given failures in responding to Katrina.

"Are we capable of dealing with a severe attack? That's a very important question and it's in the national interest that we find out what went on so we can better respond," Bush replied.

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Smile Gawain, you're on Snopes.com. :mellow:

I'm getting tired of this. When I first arrived in the backroom, I was expecting interesting conversations, such as the "Nature of Man" thread, or the Nihlist thread. But instead I have to sift through all of this to get to something interesting- and lately, there hasn't been muct to find.

Please- this is not just to Gawain, this is to everybody back here- please drop Katrina. It is dull, mind-numbing slop, and I get enough of that watching the news.

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Originally Posted by AdrianII

Smile Gawain, you're on Snopes.com. :mellow:

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I really don't know anyone who's put forth that timeline. I think you're putting up something of a strawman there- unless of course, Im wrong and he did put it forth- in which case.... well, Im never wrong, so let's not worry about that. ~D

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Originally Posted by Tribesman

So now its 2000 buses , yesterday it was nearly 400 , then definately over 400
Playing the blame game Gawain ? Give it up .
Ballsups went through every level from the top to the bottom . Live with it .

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The 2000 figure is for all school & municipal buses. I have no idea if it's accurate or not though.

Here is a link to an article Ben Stein wrote on the subject.

Two points:

1. While certainly not as poor, inept, and racist a response as a good deal of the media coverage potrayed it to be, it is clear that the response at all levels did not closely approach "ideal" even given the excellent efforts made by many of those in a position to do so.

2. Regardless of the actualities of the event, many of which will not be fully reconstructed and analyzed for months, common wisdom -- aided by the portrayals in the media -- weighed all of the authorities in the balance and found them wanting, notably Bush. Real or not, this common perception is now the effective "reality" of the event and will influence events and politics for some time to come.


It will be interesting to see whether the Democrat opposition can leverage enough out of this event to cripple the effective leadership power of the Bush administration. Democrats were able to bleed off much of the "reform social security" steam Bush enjoyed coming off of the November election, but had begun to lose traction with the attenuation of the philibuster ploy, the passage of the energy Bill, the CAFTA vote, and the Roberts nomination. Had this been the Fall of '06, Republicans would have taken a hard hit, but numbing a Presidency for a full 14 months is difficult.


Seamus

If I had to really go out on a limb, I'd expect the Dems to call loudly for an independant investigation while doing little in reality to see it happen. That way they can appear righteous without actually having an investigation. If there was one, the best they could hope for would be a wash- blaming everyone equally, including congress. But, by talking about it they can constantly beatup the administration with it and are free to say almost anything they want.

If I was in the Republican leadership, I'd be pushing for the same thing. Afterall, whatever the panel would say would almost have to be better than what was portayed by the media. Of course, maybe its a Rove conspiracy to make the Dems scream for one so loudly that when the Republicans give in, it'll be too late. But, I'm just speculating really. ~;)

How's that for a conspiracy theory? :hide:

The 2000 figure is for all school & municipal buses. I have no idea if it's accurate or not though.
It could well be , Statewide the 97 school districts have 5279 buses plus another 2784 contractor owned ones .
It would be interesting to see how many of these where used and in which locations (it is a big place) .

Could have seen this coming a million miles away...
http://www.khou.com/news/local/crime....5342d5ac.html
Nothing like Brotherly love... :embarassed:

Can anyone tell me what the federal government and FEMA were supposed to do that they failed to do? This just proves my point about the press being against Bush. Clearly the Mayor and Govenor screwed up royaly yet its Bush who gets all the blame. Again both of them should resign if anyone does . Bus realises you cant argue with the pictures of what happpened and is just trying to stop te bleeding by taking responsiblity. Again FEMA is not a first responder nor is the National Guard.

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Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny

Can anyone tell me what the federal government and FEMA were supposed to do that they failed to do?

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I would like to see that outlined. Not that I deny they did anything wrong- I just want to know. What exactly were they supposed to do and how did they fail?

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Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny

Can anyone tell me what the federal government and FEMA were supposed to do that they failed to do? This just proves my point about the press being against Bush. Clearly the Mayor and Govenor screwed up royaly yet its Bush who gets all the blame. Again both of them should resign if anyone does . Bus realises you cant argue with the pictures of what happpened and is just trying to stop te bleeding by taking responsiblity. Again FEMA is not a first responder nor is the National Guard.

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They haven't done ANYTHING on time. Not even close. The list is too damned long to try to make here. None of the structure they were to provide was in place. Much of it still is not in place. The stuff they promised didn't arrive within days of when it was supposed to, that is according to the people that were working with them. If you don't know what has gone wrong, then you might need a cranial rectal extractor--ask FEMA if they have one, my guess is they are looking for some as well.

If you take the approach that FEMA and the feds have ZERO responsibility during a disaster, then yes, they've done a great job. Sheesh... Dubya is master of low expectations, but this is ridiculous.

Here's a good link on the response to Katrina - a Newsweek article, very informative IMO:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9287434/

It provides some very vivid images - e.g. the first FEMA official on the ground in NO, overheard repeating on the phone to Washington: "You don't understand, you don't understand...".

My impression from the article - especially the last page - is that this is partly a failure of federalism. Too many levels of government, when you needed one central authority to bang everyone's heads together. The Mayor begging for a federal takeover. The governor wanting "everything you've got" but not knowing what she needed or being willing to surrender authority in return. Bush initially unaware of the problem, then reluctant to bulldoze through.

More generally, all the politicians seem out of their depth. To be honest it seems like managing this kind of crisis seems more a job for someone with appropriate expertise - a general or FEMA type civilian equivalent. I'm not sure I'd rely on a politician to organise a booze up in brewery, let alone rescue a drowned city.

Looks like corruption in NO didn't end with the storm.... Here's a story about a Congressman that used National Guard troops as his own personal security/moving service.

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Amid the chaos and confusion that engulfed New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina struck, a congressman used National Guard troops to check on his property and rescue his personal belongings — even while New Orleans residents were trying to get rescued from rooftops, ABC News has learned.
.....snip.....
Military sources tells ABC News that Jefferson, an eight-term Democratic congressman, asked the National Guard that night to take him on a tour of the flooded portions of his congressional district. A 5-ton military truck and a half dozen military police were dispatched.

Lt. Col. Pete Schneider of the Louisiana National Guard tells ABC News that during the tour, Jefferson asked that the truck take him to his home on Marengo Street, in the affluent uptown neighborhood in his congressional district. According to Schneider, this was not part of Jefferson's initial request.
....snip.....
The water reached to the third step of Jefferson's house, a military source familiar with the incident told ABC News, and the vehicle pulled up onto Jefferson's front lawn so he wouldn't have to walk in the water. Jefferson went into the house alone, the source says, while the soldiers waited on the porch for about an hour.

Finally, according to the source, Jefferson emerged with a laptop computer, three suitcases, and a box about the size of a small refrigerator, which the enlisted men loaded up into the truck.

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link
That's just sad. :no:

Sounds pretty typical, IMHO. Only goes to prove jumped-up, self-important little people tend to remain such even during crisis.

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They haven't done ANYTHING on time. Not even close.

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Really. Dont they say it will take 72 to 96 hrs for thewm to act. Isnt thats the way its planned. Of course you can ignore the fact that it was the a better response than the last 5 hurricanes. That they did indeed arrive within 72 hrs.

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The list is too damned long to try to make here.

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How about you start with one specific one ? Everybodies saying boy they sure screwed it up and when you ask them how so they say just look at the pictures? Well duh.

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If you take the approach that FEMA and the feds have ZERO responsibility during a disaster, then yes, they've done a great job.

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Again no one is saying that. Its a huge buracracy. Im sure plenty of mistakes were made. But the big ones were made by the State of LA and NO itself. They were provided with plenty of money to improve the levees but instead spent it on other projects. They failed to evacuate the city as planned. Also anyone who lives there should take part of the blame for not making their politicians make their city safe. The answer to all this will be another buracracy like the department of hurricanes. Thats how the government fixes things and thats what went wrong here. As soon as the military gets there they start barking orders and getting things going. This is no job for politicians.

You know Gaw, "better response than the last 5 hurricanes" isn't yet synonymous with "sufficient response"...

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You know Gaw, "better response than the last 5 hurricanes" isn't yet synonymous with "sufficient response"...

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Did I say it was. Its hardly the poor response yourhear about from the media. Again what didnt they do that they were supposed to do? This is a big problem in the US. Thats personal responsibility. How is it that the first rescue teams in were from Florida. The rest of the South could take a lesson from them on this sort of thing. The federal government upheld its end much better than the state and local governments did yet they get all the blame from the press because their the only republicans in the loop.

Naww, it's just the deeply ingrained American hatred of "damn feds" talking. You Reps do it all the time too, just not so loudly if the "damn feds" happen to be Republican at the moment.

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Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny

How about you start with one specific one ?

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GAH! There are so many falsehoods in what you've said it isn't worth the time. Have fun making up your own reality. I'll leave this thread with this: Your comment about it being all rosy is one of the stupidest things I've ever read on a message board. It was as out of touch as Brown was, how appropriate. ~;)

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Your comment about it being all rosy is one of the stupidest things I've ever read on a message board.

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No this comment by you is. Where did I ever say everything was rosy? You cant even come up with one thing they did wrong. Nothing unusual in your response here. Par for the course.

Red Harvest crying Ad Hominem? Hilarious.

Irony, thy name is Red Harvest.

Meanwhile, back in the real world...

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Originally Posted by Proletariat

Irony, thy name is Red Harvest.

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And when we need someone to throw a "me, too" into a Gawain-based flame thread, well, we can count on Prole.

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And when we need someone to throw a "me, too" into a Gawain-based flame thread, well, we can count on Prole.

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The only flames here seem to be coming from you. How about contributing someting usefull like you used to do?

Find one more instance. Just one, Lemur.

Eh, forget it.

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Originally Posted by AdrianII

Meanwhile, back in the real world...

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Nice link - helps the discussion in several thread on the subject. What the article tells me is that the Department of Homeland Security failed in accomplishing its stated mission and goals and even the assigned missions given to them.

Especially this part

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But Chertoff - not Brown - was in charge of managing the national response to a catastrophic disaster, according to the National Response Plan, the federal government's blueprint for how agencies will handle major natural disasters or terrorist incidents. An order issued by President Bush in 2003 also assigned that responsibility to the homeland security director.

But according to a memo obtained by Knight Ridder, Chertoff didn't shift that power to Brown until late afternoon or evening on Aug. 30, about 36 hours after Katrina hit Louisiana and Mississippi. That same memo suggests that Chertoff may have been confused about his lead role in disaster response and that of his department.

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It would seem to me that the Department of Homeland Security grew to fast, with a very big plate to fill. I am beginning to wonder if the "eyes" overfilled the plate past the "stomaches" ability to handle it.

Or in simple terms - the plate is overfilled and the Department of Homeland Security did not know until such a major crisis actually came into being.

Another valid reason why an investigation needs to be conducted.

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Originally Posted by Proletariat

Red Harvest crying Ad Hominem? Hilarious.

Irony, thy name is Red Harvest.

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I'm sure that makes sense in some alternate universe.

Sorry, Red. You've darn near white-washed the local governments foibles during this debacle while leading the angry crucifixion chants against the Fed.

You've got it right in alot of cases, but the agenda is fairly obvious and congruent with your posting history. I don't agree with Gawain's views at all on who's to blame in this mess, but he's shamelessly conservative, so who cares? You already know where he stands before he posts it. You're the self-anointed moderate here, but your posts always have the same tone.

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I don't agree with Gawain's views at all on who's to blame in this mess, but he's shamelessly conservative, so who cares? You already know where he stands before he posts it. You're the self-anointed moderate here, but your posts always have the same tone.

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Excuse me? Again im not saying the feds did everything right. Im makeing the same exact argument you are. That Red and the press aree trying to blame this all on Bush when in fact the Feds did a better job than any of the local governments. Im not giving anyone a pass here. How many times do I have to say this. The feds did things the way the system was set up. It just proves the system needs improvement.

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Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny

Excuse me? Again im not saying the feds did everything right. Im makeing the same exact argument you are. That Red and the press aree trying to blame this all on Bush when in fact the Feds did a better job than any of the local governments.

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Why did Brown resign if the Fed did the best it could within their power? The only fair thing Bush can be slammed for is appointing Brown.

I'd say the Fed and the Governor weren't very good, but Nero Nagin should spend the rest of his life as an EMT in the Sudan to atone for his criminal inactions.

(C'mon, Lemur. Since you can count on me for nothing but 'me too' posts in Gawain's threads, I'm sure it shouldn't be hard to find an example or two.)

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Why did Brown resign if the Fed did the best it could within their power? The only fair thing Bush can be slammed for is appointing Brown.

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Someones head had to role. Besides that I never said the man was qualified to hold that position. I again agree with you.

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(C'mon, Lemur. Since you can count on me for nothing but 'me too' posts in Gawain's threads, I'm sure it shouldn't be hard to find an example or two.)

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Now its me agreeing with you. Could that be because were both conservatives while he is not? Hes a moderate remember?

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Originally Posted by Proletariat

(C'mon, Lemur. Since you can count on me for nothing but 'me too' posts in Gawain's threads, I'm sure it shouldn't be hard to find an example or two.)

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I thought you said "never mind"? Or perhaps that was applying to something else.

Prole, if you really want to keep on this, I'd be happy to dig up an example. But from my perspective, I've said my piece, you and Gawain have said yours (repeatedly), and everybody knows where everybody stands.

Now, the last time I got into it with you two, I stated that I'd said enough, and walked away. After which Gawain declared that I was like someone who got punched in the nose and then said "let's just drop it." So clearly, there's no way for me to drop it without being declared a failed bully.

Quite a box you two put a lemur in. If you really want to drag this out, just say so. Otherwise, let's drop it.

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Originally Posted by Lemurmania

I thought you said "never mind"? Or perhaps that was applying to something else.

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It was something else.

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Originally Posted by Lemurmania

Prole, if you really want to keep on this, I'd be happy to dig up an example.

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If you can find one, feel free.

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Originally Posted by Lemurmania

Now, the last time I got into it with you two, I stated that I'd said enough, and walked away. After which Gawain declared that I was like someone who got punched in the nose and then said "let's just drop it." So clearly, there's no way for me to drop it without being declared a failed bully.

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I've gotten into it with you once, and Gawain wasn't a part of it, Don C was. We took a thread quite off topic, and so we all called it a day. Perhaps you have me mistaken with someone else.

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Originally Posted by Lemurmania

Quite a box you two put a lemur in. If you really want to drag this out, just say so. Otherwise, let's drop it.

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Quite an accusation you heave at a prole. Surely an example or three will be easy to find.

I find it a bit irritating to constantly be lumped in with a certain group on this board when I rarely weigh in with an opinion on most right/left issues. You suggesting I'm Gawain's partner in crime is a pretty bad misread. The only thing I can think of is that you have me mistaken for someone else.

But, go ahead. Find some examples since you know, you can count on me for it and all.

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Originally Posted by Proletariat

Find some examples since you know, you can count on me for it and all.

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This is all I'm going to say on the matter. This is Lemur, signing off on this subject.

You know at car accidents the people who slow down to take a look but don't actually go anything... that is what these threads feel like. ~:grouphug: From one pot to the rest of the kettles.

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Originally Posted by Lemurmania

This is all I'm going to say on the matter. This is Lemur, signing off on this subject.

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Going back two months to find a post where Gawain and I responded to your post within a minute of each other? I guess we had a full 60 seconds to plan our initial tag-team assault.

I'd sign off of this topic if I were you, too.

Uhm ... would you ladies and gentlemen mind going back on topic?

Or do we need to start yet another political alignment poll and probably sticky it so that arguments about who pursues which political agenda can be settled more quickly?

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Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny

Excuse me? Again im not saying the feds did everything right. Im makeing the same exact argument you are. That Red and the press aree trying to blame this all on Bush when in fact the Feds did a better job than any of the local governments. Im not giving anyone a pass here. How many times do I have to say this. The feds did things the way the system was set up. It just proves the system needs improvement.

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Stating that the federal government did a better job than local government doesn't really mean all that much; all levels of government did a bad job, in different degrees of bad. Also, that the federals did things the way the system was set up only makes things worse for the feds; the problems with the system have been evident for some time, and it was their responsibility to sort things. In this, they failed badly.

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Originally Posted by Proletariat

I'd say the Fed and the Governor weren't very good, but Nero Nagin should spend the rest of his life as an EMT in the Sudan to atone for his criminal inactions.

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Agreed. While there were mistakes made on every level Nagin was so incompetent that it was practically dangerous.

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Also, that the federals did things the way the system was set up only makes things worse for the feds; the problems with the system have been evident for some time, and it was their responsibility to sort things. In this, they failed badly.

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I guess your right its all Bushs fault. Again the fact that it was the best response ever means nothing. Im not saying they did everything perfect here but thy did pretty much what their supposed to do. The problem once more is too much government , not too little. The system needs to be streamlined. Again no one here has come up with even one idea on how this should have been handled.

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Stating that the federal government did a better job than local government doesn't really mean all that much;

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Yup but listening to the press and many around here you would think Bush was the one who is responsible for this when in reality he is the least responsible of the three .The Mayor and the Govenor were really out to lunch. If LA had the same sort of system as Florida this wouldnt have happened.