Re : Deutsche Farbenlehre
Emmm, who are the yellow and black ? I'd guess green are the ecologists, red the communists and the other 2 the socialists and christian-democrats. Am I right ? What are the extreme right and Lafontaine's colors ?
Re : Re: Deutsche Farbenlehre
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Originally Posted by Stefan the Berserker
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Many thanks Stephan, lots of useful infos here. I'll finally understand the political situation in Germany :bow:
Re : Re: Deutsche Farbenlehre
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Originally Posted by A.Saturnus
Yellow - red? Are you serious? The modern FDP is a joke, apart from promising tax cuts of 5 billion € per citizen, they have no policy whatsoever. They´ve given up content and realism when Westerwelle became their figurehead.
For reasons I don't quite understand, every German I speak to seems to loathe the FDP.
I don't have any close experience with the German parties, and especially things like personal style and such are difficult to keep up with from abroad. But I am naturally inclined to them, firstly, because they are a 'sister' party to the UDF in the ADLE, the 'Alliance for democrats and Liberals' in Europe.
And secondly, because whenever I read up on German politics, I seem to agree with them most. Allthough, I did this questionnaire on who to vote for in your election. I can't for the life of me find a link now. You had to answer thirthy questions, and the program would then give you a chart showing how close your opinions were to which political party. SPD came first, then the 'Greens' (damn) and the FDP only third. I'm really not supposed to be that left wing...
I have to add that I had to skip a full ten questions because the topic was of no relevance to me or because I simply couldn't understand the question due to my limited command of German.
Re : Re: Deutsche Farbenlehre
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Originally Posted by Kaiser of Arabia
Germany should elect the NPD (If that's the right acronym, i think it is lol), or the Deutsche Volkspartei. Get a good government, for once!
Nah. Germany tried NPD policy before - it was slighty short of a succes...
Re: Re : Re: Deutsche Farbenlehre
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Originally Posted by Louis IV the Fat
And secondly, because whenever I read up on German politics, I seem to agree with them most. Allthough, I did this questionnaire on who to vote for in your election. I can't for the life of me find a link now. You had to answer thirthy questions, and the program would then give you a chart showing how close your opinions were to which political party. SPD came first, then the 'Greens' (damn) and the FDP only third. I'm really not supposed to be that left wing...
Ignore the test. I did the same thing and the result was entire nonsense (FDP or DIE LINKE :dizzy2: )
I think the reason why the CDU got so bad a result is that elections and polls are not the same. As in the last election, a lot of people declared they will vote CDU but didn´t.
Re : Re: Deutsche Farbenlehre
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Originally Posted by Louis IV the Fat
For reasons I don't quite understand, every German I speak to seems to loathe the FDP.
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Originally Posted by Stefan the Berserker
The FDP is known for its many treasons of Partners.
~:handball:
I would rather call it a commendable ability to adapt to new political realities. ~:)
Re : Deutsche Farbenlehre
Oh grow up. The concept of nazi tanks rolling through the plains of the Ukraine is about as relevant to present day German politics as shooting Indians is for American politics.
Re: Re : Deutsche Farbenlehre
Kick us out Merkel, stop us or we will plunder Germany. ~D
Re: Re : Deutsche Farbenlehre
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Originally Posted by Louis IV the Fat
Oh grow up. The concept of nazi tanks rolling through the plains of the Ukraine is about as relevant to present day German politics as shooting Indians is for American politics.
Well, the aboriginals aren't having such a great time with the Bush administration right now...
Re : Deutsche Farbenlehre
And Toni Schumacher can become ambassador to France. ~;)
And Schröder may be a ruthless, arse-kissing powermongerer indeed, but he get's my vote for chancellor. Twice he's beaten (well, I would consider this last election a victory for the SPD) the CDU/CSU now coming from way behind in the polls. He has got what it takes to lead. He's a natural born winner.
Unlike Merkel. She got totally pöwnd by him in the last debate.
Re : Re: Deutsche Farbenlehre
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Originally Posted by voigtkampf
As the red numbers in Germany’s state accounting continue soaring upward, just like the unemployment numbers are hitting the record high ever since the end of the WW2, and the most powerful economy in Europe is slipping to a second-rate middle-Europe factor, you should repeat that mantra to yourself over and over. And draw satisfaction that there was no suitable opponent to knock out that clown with the talent for driving Germany even deeper into state of bankruptcy. Other than being French, I don’t know how a reasonable person can find this course of action satisfactory. ~D
He does have two major difficulties to overcome.
Firstly, the unification. Taking over five bankrupt Länder was a bit costly.
And secondly, Germany's economy, like France, was based on industry. And like France, the rise of Asia has annihilated a large portion of it. The EU economies that are doing well at the moment are based on services. France and Germany are in trouble, especially with regards to employment. Both need to reform, yet both want to cling on to the social rights that were build to protect our workers. Hence the more than usual interest in what is happening on your side of the Rhine. If you can reform, we can follow your example. If you can't, then damnit, we're in trouble. We've got some elections down the road too in two years time.
And no, a Germany in recession is the last thing we need now. We need Germany to get back on it's feet again. You are supposed to be the engine of the EU-economy after all.
Re : Deutsche Farbenlehre
Yes, Stefan. That's why you need a moderate, reasonable party - like, say, the FDP - in the heart of your political constellation. ~;)
It allows for coalitions to gravitate towards the centre, instead of to the outer extremes. You may not like the idea of the FDP having more power in this fashion than she should have based on her size - complete with all that shifting of allegiances and randsoming of far larger parties. But the alternative is more unattractive still.
Re: Re : Re: Deutsche Farbenlehre
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Originally Posted by Louis IV the Fat
He does have two major difficulties to overcome.
Firstly, the unification. Taking over five bankrupt Länder was a bit costly.
Ah, yes, that dead horse… How long was that? Given chance, SPD will blame the reunification for all their misconduct for another two or three decades… They failed to once absolve the conservatives in the aftermath of reunification and say “ok, we are in a mess, but its only because the reunification process, its not the conservative’s fault”, but nothing seems to stop the left from making the reunification their main scapegoat ad infinituum.
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And secondly, Germany's economy, like France, was based on industry. And like France, the rise of Asia has annihilated a large portion of it. The EU economies that are doing well at the moment are based on services.
For more than just that reason, the European economies are coming through a significantly heavy phase. But Germany’s downfall, compared to other countries in percentage, is no where symmetrical. To put it down simple, Germany had to deal with both unfavorable conditions on the world market as well as exceptionally incapable domestic government.
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Originally Posted by A.Saturnus
Few things in politics are really simple. They only look simple.
Thank you for this valuable lesson.
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Schröder´s government wasn´t going down because of any mess-ups but because the necessary reforms it did weren´t liked by its clientel (and parts of the party).
If your opposition dislikes your program, fine, you are prepared for that. But when your “clientele” and “parts of the party” go openly against you and your plan… Then you are either a misunderstood genius or a plain charlatan.
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The losing of Länder was going on since their rise 1998 and it is quite normal. The ruling party usually declines in the Länder. If Union had won this election, you would have seen numbers of SPD voters going up pretty quick.
Absolutely true. You have, however, failed to mention that the loss of trust from the voters invested into SPD has been one of the epical proportions. When you lose support from that many voters that fast and also lose entire regions where you have regularly won elections for decades, then you should realize that something you do is terribly wrong.
Unless you are a misunderstood genius the keeps pursuing his course, or a plain, stupid charlatan.
Re: Re : Re: Deutsche Farbenlehre
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Originally Posted by voigtkampf
If your opposition dislikes your program, fine, you are prepared for that. But when your “clientele” and “parts of the party” go openly against you and your plan… Then you are either a misunderstood genius or a plain charlatan.
If Schröder is either than Merkel must be that too. After all that program in question was Hartz IV. Which was agreed upon by the union. The problem was that unfortunately, big parts of the left reject necessary reforms. You are in fact blaming Schröder for an unpopulistic policy.
It is strange that you chastise him so much for the economy when in fact the economical policy of the SPD and that of the Union differ only in nuances.
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Absolutely true. You have, however, failed to mention that the loss of trust from the voters invested into SPD has been one of the epical proportions. When you lose support from that many voters that fast and also lose entire regions where you have regularly won elections for decades, then you should realize that something you do is terribly wrong.
How are epical proportions defined?
1990 the SPD was leading faction in 8 of 16 Länder.
1998 11 of 16.
1999 10/16.
2000 9/16.
2001 9/16.
2002 8/16.
2003 7/16.
2004 7/16.
2005 5/16.
I recognize a sort of pendulum in that.
The only thing drastic I can see is that they lost two Länder in one year: Schleswig-Holstein (by the voting of 1 person!!) and Nordrhein-Westfalen. This is after all what brought Schröder to call for re-elections.
It is true that the SPD had recently in some Länder very low results. These voters went mostly over to PDS. Would it be corrcet then, by your reasoning, that something the PDS did was terribly right?
Re : Re: Re : Re: Deutsche Farbenlehre
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Originally Posted by voigtkampf
Ah, yes, that dead horse… How long was that? Given chance, SPD will blame the reunification for all their misconduct for another two or three decades… They failed to once absolve the conservatives in the aftermath of reunification and say “ok, we are in a mess, but its only because the reunification process, its not the conservative’s fault”, but nothing seems to stop the left from making the reunification their main scapegoat ad infinituum
Sorry, reunification indeed. Just sloppyness on my part, no political statement intended.
But a beating a dead horse? I don't think so. I'd rather call it one of the most pressing problems of Germany.
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According to the German Institute for Economic Research (DIW), economic aid for the eastern part of Germany is increasingly dragging down the economic cycle in western Germany. Experts warn of a growing risk that "development in the new federal states" could trigger a "self-fuelling recession."
It was only last year that a team of government consultants, headed by former Hamburg Mayor Klaus von Dohnanyi and the former head of the East German state bank and subsequent managing director of Deutsche Bank's Berlin office, Edgar Most, presented Manfred Stolpe (SPD), the cabinet minister charged with eastern reconstruction, with a 29-page report ("Recommendations for a Change in Direction for Development East") outlining the full scope of the problem. Experts complain that:
only about 60 percent of eastern Germans capable of gainful employment are in fact employed. The average unemployment rate in the region tops 18 percent. According to the Institute for Economic Research in Halle, eastern Germany is short of about 2 million jobs;
migration away from the East continues unabated, especially among young people. According to the Dohnanyi report, "eastern Germany is threatened by a dramatic aging of the population and a dangerous loss of especially well-trained workers and its creative force";
the economy in the new German states has been growing more slowly than in the West for years. The catch-up process has stalled, leading to an ever-widening gap between East and West;
the East lacks medium-sized businesses when compared with the western standard. Companies in the East are generally too small and short on capital;
the costs of reunification consume four percent of the gross domestic product annually. But because economic growth falls short of this figure, aid to the East is eroding the West's economic base;
billions in aid and subsidization policies are no longer effective. Without a "change in course," according to the report, the "need for West-East transfers of funds can even be expected to increase in the future."
Der Spiegel, september 2005 And the above doesn't even adress the social problems and alienation of a large part of the East.
In figures:
http://www.spiegel.de/img/0,1020,515451,00.gif
