Your arch enemy (the faction you hate in your games)

Since the last thread like this got closed before any discussion could take place here we go.

In you campaign game who is the faction you hate the most. For me its the horde. I always get my Polish empire rolling when the horde show up and rock the boat. They never go south to kick the hell out of the Byzantines or Turks. They come straight for me. I use any thing I can to get them off the map, including bribery. Cheese, maybe. They came and crashed MY party thou.


So who is your arch enemy and why?

The French so annoying I usually crush them in the first ten turns though ~:cheers:

Egypt, big and useless with massive camel spam.

9 times out of 10 I usually pick a fight with the Italians purely because of their earlier and more advanced navy. I don't like having those bad boys in the water with my ships.

Usually the French suffer my wrath. I can't have them beating the English! So I try and make sure the English beat the French if I'm not the English myself.

In my recent campaign as the Scilians, the Italians are my arch rivals with their large fleet and provences all over the place. I can't have anyone else rivalling me. So I launched a crusade against them that saw them sink half of my fleet in just 2 years. I'm having to churn out ships like crazy to stop them bankrupting my faction. They seem to be the only other faction that realises the benefits of sea based trade so in a way I almost feel guilty about bringing them down.

I also hate the Pope in the game now. Burning all my best generals with 10 piety and 8 acumen with his 5 star inquistors. Thanks Pope. Launch your own crusades in future.

The Sicilians are the bane of my existence, and the Turks are close behind them.

Sicily sinks my ships all the time, thus disrupting my trade network. This wouldn't necessarily be so bad, except for that they rarely have the military muscle to defend themselves from my inevitable reprisal attacks. I could understand if they attacked me if they were fairly powerful (because at least that would be a challenge), but when they take out my ships when they're small, it looks like they're doing it just to piss me off--and if that is indeed their goal, then they're very good at it. :furious3:

The Turks aren't actually a bunch of chumps like the Sicilians, but I hate fighting HA-heavy armies. And since I play as the Eggies and Byz quite a bit, it's inevitable that I elminate the Turks ASAP (since they're in my way). Of cours, because of horse archers, I'm not terribly fond of any of the eastern factions (the Horde drives crazy too), but the Turks are always more of an immediate problem.

Well, since I play Total Domination potentially everyone but one group that I dislike the most because they like to backstab is the HRE... I play the English and we usually do well mopping up the French as allies and as he's going to war with Italy or Poland and I'm going at it with the Aragonese or Spanish he always attacks for no particular reason or gain.... simply stupid.

The Egyptians are also a pain too... I leave them for last and usually keep the veteran Urban Militias that I've accumulated from my earlier conquest.

the pope

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Originally Posted by Scurvy

the pope

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:duel:

When I play HRE it is the Byzantines and the Hungarians :furious3: , when
I play Muslim factions, it is the Byzantines. Maybe I should try playing those
dang Byzantines ~:confused: --- if you have trouble beating them/join them.

The Spanish. As soon as I take France, if I don't get them first, in about 5-20 years they'll get me.

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Originally Posted by evil_maniac from mars

The Spanish. As soon as I take France, if I don't get them first, in about 5-20 years they'll get me.

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NO ONE EXPECTS THE SPANISH INQUISITION!!!


(Sorry, got carried away there..... ~D )

Spain and Russia i always pick on as they dominate my games, and when the italians start to invade your coastal provinces there is nothing better than going in and dealing out much deserved retribution ~:cool:

Hmm, it's been the English lately...
When they manage to beat the French you can be sure they will spawn and eat half of the map, at least if the spanish haven't been doing the same...
Plus you better take them out in early unless you want to face bills and longbows, one of the deadliest combinations in the game...

Maybe I should balance them a bit better in my MOD...

All depends on who I'm playing as.

When I play as France or England, it's the one I didn't select that tends to frustrate me the most.

Playing as the HRE, it's the Italians. Guaranteed. I hate them. They go around sinking my ships, condeming me to poverty.

As the Danes, it'd be the Poles. They never let me get things up and running in the Baltics.

As the Russians, it'd be Byzantines.

As the Poles, it's the Hungarians. Actually, unless I'm playing as the Hungarians, they tick me off a lot (they seem pre-programmed to assault Austria and Bohemia at the worst possible moments).

As the Hungarians themselves, I generally don't have many problems. I play a ruthless game of raid & pillage, so I don't rely or expect alliances from anyone.

Playing as Italy, definitely the Pope. I have to leave decent sized armies in every one of my interior provinces, or the bastard backstabs me and excommunicates me if I resist.

As Spain, the Aragonese. I can usually work my mojo with the Alhomeds, but the Aragonese seem to live to be the Alhomed's toadies.

As the Sicilians, it'd be the Byzantines.

I don't play as the Byzantines (no decent spears) or the muslims (I don't like armies that rely on speed, gives the AI an unfair advantage).

@ Don- I agree 100% about the Hungarians, they give me a twitch :furious3:
and the Italians are infuriating when I play HRE.



What did you mean about the AI's advantage and army's of speed?

Probably the Sicillians, the most since their sole purpose in life seems to be to trash a good trade empire and get squashed in the process. The French also seem pre disposed to be agressive towards the human player if you neighboor them and can be an annoyance in early. Since I strictly play GA and once I have carved out the empire I have in mind I fortify it I don't really care if a faction such as the English, Almohads, Spanish or Byzantines takes half the map. I will have forces on my borders by that point that will stop them dead cold. If they manage to get the lead in points it becomes a matter of eleminating them. I do this either through agents or raid through their lands causing civil wars and eventually their elemination. I dont keep any provences beyond my desired empire. I may linger long enough to construct a port for withdrawal but that is it.

I think the Sicillians are a universal enemy in the game. They always seem to piss someone off and get wiped out by the player or another AI faction.

I posted this in the last thread just before it closed so I hope noone minds if I put it here once more.

I have only played a few campaigns so far so these might change in the future. Perhaps I dislike Egypt (they tend to get quite strong), the Turks (I like Rome I guess) (they are seljuk Turks right?), and... the mongols (I cannot play in the east in early without being obbsessed with their arrival for 70 to 50 years, which is an unfortunate detraction from the gameplay)

The papacy is annoying but is usually mostly harmless. The exception of course is after successive pope comeback tours where the pope'll keep gaining land after summoning strong high tech armies from the ether when he reappears. In my games they don't get attacked too often and I usually reduce them to their papal states and work to cast them off into inescapable dept. It is regrettable that the game is so inflexible. When playing byzantium most of eastern and southern Europe becomes 90 or over percent orthodox the pope would likely cease to be a huge significant factor politically to be able to gather so many soldiers with no land or sea connextion to catholic ruled areas in Britain, upper France and Scandanavia.

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Originally Posted by OlafTheBrave

Probably the Sicillians, the most since their sole purpose in life seems to be to trash a good trade empire and get squashed in the process.

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Originally Posted by m52nickerson

I think the Sicillians are a universal enemy in the game. They always seem to piss someone off and get wiped out by the player or another AI faction.

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Yep, that about sums them up. I usually target the Sicilians for destruction as soon as it's reasonably practical to do so. And it doesn't matter if they're far away from me or not. If they start sinking my ships, I will strike back and completely wipe them out--even if I have to bankrupt my empire to do it (which sometimes happens since I've just taken a big whack to my trade income). When it comes to the Sicilians, vengance shall always be mine..... ~D

The Turks, simply because if they're left alone long enough, you ned up facing thousands of horse archers and I friggin hate fighting them.
Oh and the Genoans, the last 3 campaigns I've played, they've spammed massive fleets, picked fights from Scandanavia to Egypt and been hammered on the continent only to retreat to ridiculous little enclaves (Estonia last time, Ireland before IIRC), but still with their massive navies!

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The French also seem pre disposed to be agressive towards the human player if you neighboor them and can be an annoyance in early.

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Everyone seems to think this but I've had a few Spanish and HRE campaigns where the French were model neighbours, leaving me to strip back my garrisons for centuries...

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Originally Posted by dgfred

What did you mean about the AI's advantage and army's of speed?

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With speedy armies, the important thing is to be able to control and constantly manipulate all 16 units simultaneously. A feint here, a pursuit there, it's an intricate dance. My hat is off to those that have the mental concentration to pull it off, but I generally find it frustrating. The AI doesn't have this problem, because it's a pre-programmed routine, something it does very well. It just sets up a 1 to 16 for loop and executes it repeatedly, constantly checking each and every unit. It never forgets to check in on and tweak any of it's units. I always overlook 1, and that's the one that starts the routing.

Oh, I see ~;) . I too have some difficulties fighting with Muslim units :embarassed: . Thanks for the reply.

I change my mind:

Spain because of javelinmen spam armies. Those battles are lost through sheer boredom.

Aragon/Danes(nice challenge to play as) in early because of RK spamming royalty.

Germans because I suck at them.

Turks/GH/Novograd/Egypt because, like Spain they have tend to spend all their money on cheap spam units. Cavalry spam is ANNOYING especially with HA.

Huns because once a unit of their Elite Horse archers that joined an English Crusade single handedly routed one BI and routed my whole 6 star Byzantine army.

Arch-enemy? It must be the Sicilians. Their fleets are a pain in the arse, especially on my trade routes.

Otherwise our beloved pope (isn't he the default one ~;) )

Also, the Spanish, Turks, and Russians tick me off as they tend to establish massive empires at the cost of those who could've been worthy enemies/allies of mine. And the Turks especially because I like Byzantines...

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Originally Posted by lugh

The Turks, simply because if they're left alone long enough, you ned up facing thousands of horse archers and I friggin hate fighting them.

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You're preaching to the choir, lugh! ~:cheers:

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Originally Posted by lugh

Everyone seems to think this but I've had a few Spanish and HRE campaigns where the French were model neighbours, leaving me to strip back my garrisons for centuries...

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See, the French usually behave themselves in my games as well (unless I'm the English, of course! ~;) ). Otherwise, however, they usually leave me alone--as long as I'm careful and keep halfway-decent garrisons in my border provinces. The only times the French backstab me is if my frontier garrisons are woefully under-manned, in which case I really have no one to blame but myself. So as a rule, the French and I get along just fine, as long as I don't present myself as too tempting a target for them to pass up!

I hate they Byzantines when I play catholics because if they don't attack my crusade, half of it will dessert on non-catholic soil.

Yep, my vote's for the Scicilians too, for the same irritating ship-sinking, trade-disrupting, no-follow-through behaviour.

Looks like we have a winner ~:)

Cheers,
Ulair

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Originally Posted by Martok

See, the French usually behave themselves in my games as well (unless I'm the English, of course! ~;) ).

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Of course this wouldn't have anything to do with you pillaging the possesions of your rightful liege the King of France? They're just naturally obnoxious?
Thought not ;)

No matter what faction I play, no matter where I am, what I'm doing or to whom I'm doing, I always seem to wind up dealing with :furious3: from the :furious3: Byzantines!!

From the very first campaign game I ever played. An early campaign that I played as the danes, because I liked (still do) their starting position. I was just sitting there, picking on rebels, securing the Dane lands and trying to make sure the HRE didn't look at me like hungry dog does a pork chop. :juggle2:

All of the sudden, out of the blue, I start getting notices of assassination attempts by Byzantine agents! :stunned:

Well, any relationship that starts like that is bound to end up only one way
:argue: :charge: :duel:

In every game since then, I always have some sort of issue with the dog gone Byzantines.

I can't confirm it but, I'm pretty sure the Viking raiders in VI campaigns are funded by the Byzantines... ~;)

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Originally Posted by lugh

Of course this wouldn't have anything to do with you pillaging the possesions of your rightful liege the King of France? They're just naturally obnoxious?
Thought not ;)

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No, certainly not! The French going to war with me has nothing at all to do with me taking their best provinces or bribing away their best generals; I would never do such a thing..... ~D

Guys, I cannot believe nobody mentioned the almohads. I was English first, then Byz, and their fleet was always just everywhere, blocking all my trades and trying to invade me from every position they manage to conquer near mine.
And I also agree about the Sycilians. I was way over 60% with the Byz, they only possesed Naples and Sicily and still refused me several times a truce, being their fleet a massive annoyance.

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Originally Posted by Martok

No, certainly not! The French going to war with me has nothing at all to do with me taking their best provinces or bribing away their best generals; I would never do such a thing..... ~D

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Strange, me neither! Silly irrational continentals.....

I'd love to have problems with the Almo's but they always seem to get hammered by the Spanish and Aragonese in my games.

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Originally Posted by kilman74

Guys, I cannot believe nobody mentioned the almohads. I was English first, then Byz, and their fleet was always just everywhere, blocking all my trades and trying to invade me from every position they manage to conquer near mine.
And I also agree about the Sycilians. I was way over 60% with the Byz, they only possesed Naples and Sicily and still refused me several times a truce, being their fleet a massive annoyance.

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Before VI I always had the Almohads get big, very big. Since VI they seem to sit in the desert and battle back and forth with the Spanish.

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Originally Posted by m52nickerson

Before VI I always had the Almohads get big, very big. Since VI they seem to sit in the desert and battle back and forth with the Spanish.

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Yeah, you've pretty much hit the nail on the head, there. The Almos are ridiculous in the original Medieval, but they're pansies in Viking Invasion. That's why I downloaded the XL mod; they do a much better job of protecting their lands. (In fact, between the Almos being beefier and the Portuguese being a playable faction, the Spanish actually merit the "Hard" difficulty rating again! ~:) )

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Originally Posted by m52nickerson

Before VI I always had the Almohads get big, very big. Since VI they seem to sit in the desert and battle back and forth with the Spanish.

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The Almohads will usually get big in the original, unless I play as Spain ~D .

Why is this? They should also go after the Egyptians as well as the Spanish,
but they don't :dizzy2: . An AI Spain doesn't ever seem to do well, but when
I play them they seem fairly easy. Do any of you veterans have some ideas/
clues/etc.... to this craziness?

From what I understand they changed the natural attitude of several AI factions with the expansion. The Almohads were made less aggressive, the French moreso, etc.

I mean the Spanish, why can't the AI play them very well? ~:confused:

Probably the language barrier ;).

That's two useless comments Mithrandir ... ~D

The Spanish handle themselves pretty well in XL, very aggressive but so are the Almos so they usually stalemate at Cordoba and head north and east respectively.
What strategy label does Spain have in the original? If it's the merchant one, tha tnever seems to succeed, I think the Italians and Sicilians are Navy or something.

I think the ultimate arch enemy is the Papacy. Full Stop. Now I have the second game where they got huge. And you don't really have any other option than kill them in a fair fight and take away the provinces.

I expand on this: any other faction can be made extinct thereby zeroing the GA points for them. You can eliminate them, kill off the heirs and king with assassins, if Catholic even safer method with grand inquisitors. Although HRE have similar traits in the idea of non-extinct faction (they elect a good general if there are no heirs) but they are usually ravaged by civil war, often excommed and very very rarely get really huge.

When you face head to head the Papacy you have to fight in constant excomm if Catholic (although I am fairly good at killing all capable generals of them on the stake - usually they have only 1-2 1* general + the Pope)

In my present Irish game (Early/GA/Hard/XL_MOD) they are huge owning Europe from Anjou to Poland Saxony to Greece. In constant excom I conquered Italy. I will get Africa and Middle East and I am pushing from Flanders to the south and from North Italy to north. Papacy have cool troops but their generals (as said above) suck. So yesterday I rooted an army with several units of +3 Armor Swiss Halbediers: they were shot up by arbs, pinned by v1 Armored Spearmen and flanked by Sherwood Forester and whatever else I had... and that is in the Tirol mountains.

Sicillians, Hungarians, French.

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Originally Posted by bretwalda

I think the ultimate arch enemy is the Papacy. Full Stop. Now I have the second game where they got huge. And you don't really have any other option than kill them in a fair fight and take away the provinces.

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I have to disagree, you can use the Pope if you know how. Its only later in the game were he becomes a problem. By that point your empire is huge and getting the big X is no longer a big problem.

I've only had to face an advanced, cavalry heavy Byzantine army once and I didn't much care for it.

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Originally Posted by Vladimir

I've only had to face an advanced, cavalry heavy Byzantine army once and I didn't much care for it.

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Then I don't recommend playing as the Turks or Egyptians. ~D On the other hand, being close the Byz does make for a nice challenge!

I've started to get good at killing cav heavy armys. Damn Horde. Spears and missiles. Those horses are arrow and bolt magnets. Its also nice to be just out side of some woods with a unit or two of polearms at your flank. Hard for the enemy to attack your rear!~D