Idea: Language patrols

Recently there are a few members (who shall remain nameless) whose grasp of the English language is rudimentary ath the best, and whose message can be somewhat confusing for other patrons. I suggest the creation of a language patrol, whose member be assigned to certain boards and who have the power to edit people's texts to as to clarify them. However, that is their only power and they should not be able to close threads, delete posts, sticky threads and issue warnings. They would be not be treated as moderators or assistant moderators, just as ordinary members who mish to make everyone elses experience a little better here. Anyone like my idea? ~:)

I think it would be better to try to help the people who do not speak English as a first language to learn to write better and politely correct their mistakes, I don't think it is a good idea to give a bunch of people the power to edit posts, and encourage them to. Also the person editing the post may not know what the poster means, I have an exchange student from Turkey and this sort of thing has happened a couple of times, it is very easy to do. We just need to be patient and polite. Note: Mods are only supposed to edit out objectionable material, it is not their sole purpose.

I think it's a lousy idea. These members are certainly not from an english speaking nation - and probably have 1 or even 2 languages they prefer to speak, than english. However, no one (british or american) are competent or willing to speak in another tongue - therefore the conflict. German, french or spanish is much easier to master than english, so to me it's a puzzle why english is such a high rated language anyway.

German is :dizzy2: easier than English?

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Originally Posted by King Henry V

German is :dizzy2: easier than English?

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It is, only if you take it after English. ~;) I'll be tackling Greek from next month on. Kurdish is definitely easier than all, Arabic being the toughest nut to crack.

Btw, I agree with the rest that it's not a good idea.
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If i was a person who couldn't grasp English too well and had my post edited by a 'language patrol' i would feel deeply insulted. I mean, come on, it's so patronizing! By editing it, they'll also never learn how they should have done it, because most of the time people point out how it should be done which is quite a help, so their English would just get worse, not better.

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Originally Posted by Mouzafphaerre

I'll be tackling Greek from next month on.

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Are you talking ancient greek here? I just started on a course, it's quite cool, and my latin classes really help me.

It would be good to exchange tips & tricks, if you'd be up for it?

I my experience those posters who struggle too much to express themselves in English tend to disappear through natural selection anyway.

If it takes you too long to write a post, if you have to grab a dictionary every other sentence, if nobody responds to you because they can only barely understand what you're trying to stay you'll lose interest soon enough.

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Originally Posted by Mikeus Caesar

If i was a person who couldn't grasp English too well and had my post edited by a 'language patrol' i would feel deeply insulted. I mean, come on, it's so patronizing! By editing it, they'll also never learn how they should have done it, because most of the time people point out how it should be done which is quite a help, so their English would just get worse, not better.

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I agree. Apart from any problems that will arise when a spell-checker interprets a message incorrectly (something that could easily happen when the message was posted in haste and the author did not take time to order his or her toughts), it also very embarrasing for the corrected member. While some patrons are indeed in need of a course in elementary spelling and grammar, I don't think forced corrections will improve their language skills.

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Originally Posted by Ludens

While some patrons are indeed in need of a course in elementary spelling and grammar, I don't think forced corrections will improve their language skills.

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Some patrons....*cough* Abokasee....

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Originally Posted by Mikeus Caesar

Some patrons....*cough* Abokasee....

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I suppose everyone can fill in a couple of names, but I was not particulary thinking of him.

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Originally Posted by Sjakihata

Are you talking ancient greek here? I just started on a course, it's quite cool, and my latin classes really help me.

It would be good to exchange tips & tricks, if you'd be up for it?

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I think we'll start with modern and gradually include ancient as well. (Ι καν αλρεαδυ ρεαδ τηε αλφαβετ.) Exchanging information would be great. :bow:
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It's indeed easily taken as an insult, and it can add a lot of confusion too. I'm bad in examples, but a person could struggle to explain B, and a language corrector changes that into perfect English but now it explains A.

It would be better to engage in a discussion and ask what he means. Don't tell him that his explanation but spill some of your own beans or just say: 'sorry you lost me, do you mean..?'.

Would anyone please translate this -^ in better English?

Edit: A well meant idea King Henry V, but I doubt it's the way to go.

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Originally Posted by Mouzafphaerre

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I think we'll start with modern and gradually include ancient as well. (Ι καν αλρεαδυ ρεαδ τηε αλφαβετ.) Exchanging information would be great. :bow:
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cool - how do you type greek letters? That would be kinda cool ~:cheers:

Im only learning the ancient form - so I might get ahead of you, if you start with greek only. Anyway, if you need advice, I'd be glad to give them to you - and I'll be happy to receive some as well.

In fact, I'll start a thread in the monestary concerning ancient greek. There we can type sentences and ask for help with eithre translation or analysis.

:bow:

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Originally Posted by King Henry V

I suggest the creation of a language patrol, whose member be assigned to certain boards and who have the power to edit people's texts to as to clarify them. Anyone like my idea? ~:)

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I do fancy the idea of anyone finally translating into English that most mystifying of posts:

'tell what bartix and the faction that replaces armenia got then??' :balloon2:

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Originally Posted by Louis IV the Fat

I do fancy the idea of anyone finally translating into English that most mystifying of posts:

'tell what bartix and the faction that replaces armenia got then??' :balloon2:

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Tell me what bartix (non translateable) and the faction that replaces Armenia have got then?

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Originally Posted by Sjakihata

cool - how do you type greek letters? That would be kinda cool ~:cheers:

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Just enable your Windows 2K/XP to use extended keyboards. Let me dig out the readme of my own designed keyboard layouts. (Shameless self plug!)

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● INSTALLATION:

  The installation is fairly smooth given that you follow the required steps:

  ► Make sure that you have enabled multi-language support in Windows.
  ► Add the "Greek" [changed to fit the thread - M.] input language in <Details...> Alternative route: <Language Bar (rt.clk.) → Settings...>
[removed to fit the thread - M.]
  ► Add the "Greek" or "Greek Polytonal" keyboard under the "Greek" language. [changed to fit the thread - M.]

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Then switch to Greek using the language bar or Alt + Shift and type. The forum is Unicode enabled. ~:)
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Originally Posted by Louis IV the Fat

I do fancy the idea of anyone finally translating into English that most mystifying of posts:

'tell what bartix and the faction that replaces armenia got then??' :balloon2:

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That is just another of the many mysteries in this world, such as why was Stonehenge built, and why doesn't glue stick to the inside of the tube?

Maybe it is better unsolved.

Or why sheep dont shrink when it rains, or why dont submarines have parachutes, when airplanes have lifejackets. ~:eek:

King Henry,

Aren't you a bit communist?! You want power. Too patronizing.

Mouzaphaerre, how many and what languages do you know?!

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Originally Posted by Sjakihata

I think it's a lousy idea. These members are certainly not from an english speaking nation - and probably have 1 or even 2 languages they prefer to speak, than english. However, no one (british or american) are competent or willing to speak in another tongue - therefore the conflict. German, french or spanish is much easier to master than english, so to me it's a puzzle why english is such a high rated language anyway.

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Simple there are more people in the world who speak English as a first or trade tongue.

Most Commonwealth of Nations members have English as a primary or secondary language.

Antigua and Barbuda (1981)
Australia (19311)
Bahamas (1973)
Bangladesh (1972)
Barbados (1966)
Belize (1981)
Botswana (1966)
Brunei (1984)
Cameroon (1995)
Canada (1931)
Cyprus (1961)
Dominica (1978)
Fiji (19702)
The Gambia (1965)
Ghana (1957)
Grenada (1974)
Guyana (1966)
India (1947)
Jamaica (1962)
Kenya (1963)
Kiribati (1979)
Lesotho (1966)
Malawi (1964)
Malaysia (1957)
Maldives (1982)
Malta (1964)
Mauritius (1968)
Mozambique (1995)
Namibia (1990)
Nauru (2000)
New Zealand (19313)
Nigeria (19604)
Pakistan (19475)
Papua New Guinea (1975)
Saint Kitts and Nevis (1983)
Saint Lucia (1979)
Saint Vincent and the Grenadines (1979)
Samoa (1970)
Seychelles (1976)
Sierra Leone (1961)
Singapore (1965)
Solomon Islands (1978)
South Africa (19316)
Sri Lanka (1948)
Swaziland (1968)
Tanzania (1961)
Tonga (1970)
Trinidad and Tobago (1962)
Tuvalu (1978)
Uganda (1962)
United Kingdom (1931)
Vanuatu (1980)
Zambia (1964)

And in South East Asia the most popular European language for business is English.

Poor idea. Even a highly skilled translator would screw up the meaning once in a while, and would routinely change the feel of the text. If a post is tough to understand, then that's a problem that has to be worked out on the initiative of the person who wants it to be understood and the people who want to understand it.

You'd also eventually get the language patrol just correcting small, unnecessary things. As a trained language teacher, I often find things even in the posts of very understandable and eloquent non-native English speakers that I'd like to tweak if I got the chance.

And I know I'd be pissed if someone on a Latin board went around messing with my posts in Spanish...

DA

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Originally Posted by Papewaio

Australia (19311)

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~:eek:
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Originally Posted by Papewaio

Simple there are more people in the world who speak English as a first or trade tongue.

Most Commonwealth of Nations members have English as a primary or secondary language.

Antigua and Barbuda (1981)
Australia (19311)
Bahamas (1973)
Bangladesh (1972)
Barbados (1966)
Belize (1981)
Botswana (1966)
Brunei (1984)
Cameroon (1995)
Canada (1931)
Cyprus (1961)
Dominica (1978)
Fiji (19702)
The Gambia (1965)
Ghana (1957)
Grenada (1974)
Guyana (1966)
India (1947)
Jamaica (1962)
Kenya (1963)
Kiribati (1979)
Lesotho (1966)
Malawi (1964)
Malaysia (1957)
Maldives (1982)
Malta (1964)
Mauritius (1968)
Mozambique (1995)
Namibia (1990)
Nauru (2000)
New Zealand (19313)
Nigeria (19604)
Pakistan (19475)
Papua New Guinea (1975)
Saint Kitts and Nevis (1983)
Saint Lucia (1979)
Saint Vincent and the Grenadines (1979)
Samoa (1970)
Seychelles (1976)
Sierra Leone (1961)
Singapore (1965)
Solomon Islands (1978)
South Africa (19316)
Sri Lanka (1948)
Swaziland (1968)
Tanzania (1961)
Tonga (1970)
Trinidad and Tobago (1962)
Tuvalu (1978)
Uganda (1962)
United Kingdom (1931)
Vanuatu (1980)
Zambia (1964)

And in South East Asia the most popular European language for business is English.

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On a daily basis, more people speak chinese and spanish as the first or second language, though.

There is not such a thing as one spoken Chinese language. There are many dialects, and one can absolutely not understand the other (further apart than Scottish and Australian). Chinese has an advantage though: the written language is the 'same' everywhere.

Such is the same case with German, except that there is a certain dialect of the language taught in schools and used primarily in "important" affairs. I heard a kid speak in Salzburg dialect, once, and none of it made sense.

But since all Chinese dialects have a standardised written form, it can easily be said that Chinese is a language. Dialectic differences don't count.

Yes, NeonGod is correct. For example, I couldnt claim that Indian was a language, because there are 100s of both spoken and written forms.

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Originally Posted by Sjakihata

Im only learning the ancient form - so I might get ahead of you, if you start with greek only. Anyway, if you need advice, I'd be glad to give them to you - and I'll be happy to receive some as well.

In fact, I'll start a thread in the monestary concerning ancient greek. There we can type sentences and ask for help with eithre translation or analysis.

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Ehm... I think you are really ahead of yourself if you really think that you can learn ancient greek.

I don't think you realize how difficult and complicated it really is. I've done ancient greek in grade 7 and even the teacher was uncertain about most of it. You need like an 1000 page workbook just to understand it.

no, Im fully aware of what ancient greek is.

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Originally Posted by Del Arroyo

Poor idea. Even a highly skilled translator would screw up the meaning once in a while, and would routinely change the feel of the text. If a post is tough to understand, then that's a problem that has to be worked out on the initiative of the person who wants it to be understood and the people who want to understand it.

You'd also eventually get the language patrol just correcting small, unnecessary things. As a trained language teacher, I often find things even in the posts of very understandable and eloquent non-native English speakers that I'd like to tweak if I got the chance.

And I know I'd be pissed if someone on a Latin board went around messing with my posts in Spanish...

DA

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Actually, I once tinkered with the idea of putting a message in my sig saying: 'did I make a mistake in the above? Don't be shy in pointing it out - I'm quite eager to perfect my English'.

I'm confident enough about my English to know that what I write is perfectly comprehensible. But I'm also realistic enough to know that it still leaves a lot to be desired.

And the idea of a trained language teacher tweaking it sounds more like a wet dream than an insult...

So please don't hesitate. This goes for all you native speakers.

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Originally Posted by Louis IV the Fat

Actually, I once tinkered with the idea of putting a message in my sig saying: 'did I make a mistake in the above? Don't be shy in pointing it out - I'm quite eager to perfect my English'.

I'm confident enough about my English to know that what I write is perfectly comprehensible. But I'm also realistic enough to know that it still leaves a lot to be desired.

And the idea of a trained language teacher tweaking it sounds more like a wet dream than an insult...

So please don't hesitate. This goes for all you native speakers.

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I would love to help correct people when they have got their sentence garbled, but most people take it as an insult and throw a temper tantrum.

I think it is a lousy idea. Better to ask politely what the intended message was. This is an internet forum, our post are not dissertations.

Patrols = Bad!

Helpful citizens and Gracious Mods = Good!

.Org is known for civility and gentle usage of nubs, does'nt really need another stressed out mod, lol.

Even the 'bartix' thread was fairly humorous, even if it was because the dude just wouldn't give it up.

Just be kind to each other, eh? Everything else takes care of itself.