Question about a possible EB-BI..........

Okay. This question comes from me exclusively. Not as an EB team member, but as a fan of the project myself. This has not been discussed by anyone; at least no discussion that I have been a part of.

I know everyone has waited a long time for EB so far and the open beta is... well, I don't want to say imminent, but very very soon I think. I, too, have waited a long time for this mod and only recently saw high-holy status as a member (though my contributions are meager and modest, I must admit).

Okay, the question is: Now that BI is actually out...

After the open beta, would you rather see the finished version of EB *OR* if it is not TOO difficult, and the team is willing, would you rather see the immediate jump to EBBI?

Again, this has not been discussed to my knowledge. I don't even know if this is possible. I just ask this as a fellow fan.

So, essentially, would you rather continue your long wait and possibly gain more features and whoopdy-dos? I am going to say that the time period would remain the same as the first EB, though the possibility with BI *might* be to fully combine the two periods with scripted entries of new factions (if the rumor of additional factions proves true).

We know that the next TW will not be for at least another year. Maybe two.

Are you willing to wait a little longer if EB-BI is possible and worth it or would you rather have the current project? Keep in mind that the current project is absolutley stunning in its gameplay depth, historical accuracy, and artistic accomplishment.


What say you?

:bow: :balloon2:

I'd rather have the current project over BI itself anyday. The reason I haven't bought, and am not going to buy BI is because of EB. The wait for this mod has already been around a year I assume. That's long enough. No need to extend it even more. If a BI compatible version of EB comes around, you won't hear me object. But EB should be out sooner for just RTW, no doubt. People shouldn't have to buy BI just to be able to play EB.

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Originally Posted by Wonderland

People shouldn't have to buy BI just to be able to play EB.

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They won't. At least one version of EB will be released for RTW 1.2. As for the future, once we get a chance to see the features, fixes, etc, we'll be able to make an informed decision. :book:

it would be great if eb came out on both... i might be getting bi for its modding capabilities and the fact that i am bored of my usual games but i will definatly keep a few slots of rtw to add many mods too....

No matter what the results of this question will be, as I have stated, we have promised and will be releasing an open beta on vanilla RTW. This will be an unfinished product where the goal is to get feedback to improve the game.

After that we will evaluate BI. Until then, there will be no discussion.

RTW. I don't see how EB:BI would triumph over a release (by all means try to convince me with some hard evidence!). Plus, I spent my money clubbing instead of getting BI on Khelvan's word that EB would be released for RTW regardless.~;)

Both, of course!

BI has some nice features but it's only playable with a total conversion project like EB.

Well I'd prefer one for vanilla since I'm probably not going to buy it.
Because except for some extra features it's not a real new game. But if EB will make a BI version and the BI version will have an improved AI it might but.

I think it would be better if it went to BI cause that offers a whole new range of possibilities. It would be great with the revolts and religions and stuff like that.

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Originally Posted by Shrapnel

I think it would be better if it went to BI cause that offers a whole new range of possibilities. It would be great with the revolts and religions and stuff like that.

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Not really, since the rebellions would require us to lose a faction slot to use them (which we will not do) and the religion will probably be handled better by EB's traits and scripting system based on what we've seen so far...

I'd say: wait.

Remember that all the really bad news about R:TW didn't come out until a few weeks after release. Let's not make the same mistake with BI.

Since this has been no doubt considered by the level-headed members of EB, this plea is more directed to the fans. Khelvan has repeatedly stated that they will consider switching to BI when its merrits and faults are known. Until then, my advice is to be patient.

There are many features in BI that would greatly improve any mod for RTW. I would love to see EB converting to BI... but perhaps it would be wise to wait for a while...

I'm all for a quick convert to BI. Mainly due to the improved AI, and to the fact that I don't have a regular 1.2 installation anymore :P

improved AI? so what has improved?
just curious.

Well, at least they fixed the load/save bug! There's an improvement! ~;)

they have? but won't patch 1.3 do the same?
btw: does BI limit some modding?

What load/save bug???

Yikes, don't tell me you've been playing RTW for this whole time without knowing about the load/save bug? Gertgregoor, you're right, Patch 1.3 will fix the load/save bug in RTW, whenever that comes out. But then won't the EB guys have to make the mod compatible to version 1.3?

I don't know of any load save bug myself...

i only know baout the enemy lifting sieges when reloading...

though it's neve rbothered me..whenever i reload im completly oblivious to what happened the day before...

EDIT; doublepost..whoopsie...

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Originally Posted by jerby

i only know baout the enemy lifting sieges when reloading...

though it's neve rbothered me..whenever i reload im completly oblivious to what happened the day before...

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I know, same with me, which is probably why I never noticed it.

yeah I've heard talkin well I've read posts about it. I never noticed it untill then.
But I believe there's no AI improvement the only features you can make use of would be the formations, the horde-thingy and religion. But the latter I believe might be possible to do also in RTW.

speeking of formations..how is teh shieldwall? and teh schildtron(sp?)?

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Originally Posted by jerby

speeking of formations..how is teh shieldwall? and teh schildtron(sp?)?

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(Sentences start with a capital)speeking(sp!) of formations..how is teh(sp!) shieldwall? and teh(sp!) schildtron(sp?)?




Sorry , I just like irony ~D

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Originally Posted by Gertgregoor

But I believe there's no AI improvement the only features you can make use of would be the formations, the horde-thingy and religion. But the latter I believe might be possible to do also in RTW.

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If you read some of Kraxis's posts in the Colosseum, there seem to have been some improvements in the AI. And there's definitely been some hard coded changes in horse vs infantry combat, in favour of the latter.

I think it's inevitable EB is upgraded for the 1.3 patch (if such a thing comes) but understand Khlevan's desire to release an open beta with 1.2.

Doing an EB-BI would be a whole other thing of course, requiring a lot more work.

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Originally Posted by Simon Appleton

I think it's inevitable EB is upgraded for the 1.3 patch (if such a thing comes) but understand Khlevan's desire to release an open beta with 1.2.

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Version 1.3 apparently creates problems when using non-playable factions. Macedon, for example, causes a CTD upon commencement of a campaign.

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Originally Posted by NeonGod

Version 1.3 apparently creates problems when using non-playable factions. Macedon, for example, causes a CTD upon commencement of a campaign.

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Hmm. And if that cannot be over come, no way in hell will we use it.

Just stick with 1.2. You have been working with that version for way too long to change now. (Granted, I have absolutely no knowledge of modding, but I do know that if it isn't broken, don't try to fix it.)

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Originally Posted by NeonGod

Version 1.3 apparently creates problems when using non-playable factions. Macedon, for example, causes a CTD upon commencement of a campaign.

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I`ve tested macedon and had no problem, at least in the first few turns.

Vanilla 1.3 and Bi only crashed when factions were set to playable in the "descr_strat" with no entry in the "campaign_descriptions" file. (numidia, lomardii, burgundii for example) After adding this entries they were as playable as in 1.2.

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Originally Posted by meatwad

Just stick with 1.2. You have been working with that version for way too long to change now. (Granted, I have absolutely no knowledge of modding, but I do know that if it isn't broken, don't try to fix it.)

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But it is broken.

good news coming from BI
i'm reading ood things over at teh TWC..the shieldwall seems to do it's job (especially against cav)
in a test battle of phalanxes the AI held a line (!YES!)

but, i guess..EB's decision for going to BI is not dependent on fixes, but more on moddabilty...

about modabilty i've heard all factions are playable..

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Originally Posted by Geoffrey S

But it is broken.

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Well... that's a given.

But don't break it more.

guys, believe me, i tryed BI and its FAAAAAAAAAR better in all aspects

AI is better, the cavalry flanks, is more clever, the archers dont walk under arrows rain, no masive routs, better all, im really enjoying now

and the time period is (FOR ME AND PROBLY FOR US FAR BETTER) much more barbarian horiented, not all those phalanx wars, the ambientation is better for me, and the color (darker) and the soldiers clothes are far better
plus you could use the shield wall and shiltrom right?


i 100% agree with you that RB for VALNILLA RTW 1.3 or 1.5....<- important) is a must, to enjoy rtw, without bugs and more historical accuarate
then, release a EB BI will be the end of a great job, more than 700 years of history in a game!

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Originally Posted by infierno

guys, believe me, i tryed BI and its FAAAAAAAAAR better in all aspects

AI is better, the cavalry flanks, is more clever, the archers dont walk under arrows rain, no masive routs, better all, im really enjoying now

and the time period is (FOR ME AND PROBLY FOR US FAR BETTER) much more barbarian horiented, not all those phalanx wars, the ambientation is better for me, and the color (darker) and the soldiers clothes are far better
plus you could use the shield wall and shiltrom right?


i 100% agree with you that RB for VALNILLA RTW 1.3 or 1.5....<- important) is a must, to enjoy rtw, without bugs and more historical accuarate
then, release a EB BI will be the end of a great job, more than 700 years of history in a game!

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I haven't seen so much of that. The enemy still stands still when I pepper them with arrows and dont come at me (exception is horse archers).
How long have you played BI btw?

Anywho, as stated several places EB is waiting to see how much BI changes, what new features there are, what new bugs there are, how much can be modded, what can't be modded etc.

If we port over to BI, rest assured, we will say so.

And to quote, khelvan: EB will be made for vanilla RTW too, so those who do not have BI should not be afraid ~:)

i played the WRE campaing, i lose, both in battles(sometimes) and in the map, too much revolts and those huns hording me :@ its first time i lose in some battles (medium/medium)

but the important: the battles, the archers, try 1v1, they dont longer walk under arrow fire, they shot me too,
the charges are much more clever, AI attacks in 1 joint line, while cavalry wipes out my cavalry, if i have archers, the cavalry sneak up to kill them first and even attack me from the rear,
THE FIRST TIME I SAW THAT I WAS LIKE :dizzy2: i had the general with a infantry unit, in the reserve, this infantry was tired just of follow the enemy cavalry trying to catch em, while it killed my archers monks and the main infantry attacking from the back, when my infantry reached that f**cking clever cavalry, all my army was death, then, their cavalry stoped, and insted a crazy cavalry charge, they send me their own infantry and its cavalry flanked me, :furious3:

ITS REALLY CLEVER GUYS!!
in oficial forums i was patillathebanned (the banned, guess why) now, i did a post to say this, the AI totally rocks

And to quote, khelvan: EB will be made for vanilla RTW --->too<---, so those who do not have BI should not be afraid

-->too<-- sounds good ~D, really good

*overload* *bad grammar* *can't comprehend*

just kidding..that's nice...really hope its true.

sorry for bad grammar guys

well, its not clever as a human but, never masses ;) or dissobey rules are humans do

well, for me, the worst of all is the formations, not historical and the stats of units but imagine

-250b.c rise of rome

change game

476a.d fall of rome

really impresive ah?

We do not yet know if we will be making a BI port of EB. That decision will be made after the Open Beta.

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Originally Posted by infierno

sorry for bad grammar guys

well, its not clever as a human but, never masses ;) or dissobey rules are humans do

well, for me, the worst of all is the formations, not historical and the stats of units but imagine

-250b.c rise of rome

change game

476a.d fall of rome

really impresive ah?

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Your grammar makes you exotic ~D

I'd love to see these guys produce a "fall of the western roman empire" mod.

ive personally always felt that there never was a dark ages and that the term is invalid, and that civilization wasnt destroyed when the visigoths took rome, I think that the opinions of 16th century poets mean very little when it comes to history(Petrarch).

the EB team seem very skilled at smashing misconceptions to bits, and I really would love to see them tackle the fall of the western roman empire and the rise of the 'barbarian' kingdoms era.