-mod switch in BI

You know the switch that makes it easy to start different mods from different folders.
Developers said it got improved in BI.

But when I try to make some mini-mod this way and use -mod swtich, it starts original RTW which crashes afterwards (due to imcompatile BI files I used).

I suspect it's beacuse to doesn't look in BI folder at all only in my mini-mod plus original RTW files.

When I put -mod:bi it starts unmoded BI flawlessly.
But with -mod:minimod it starts RTW (instead of BI) and then crashes afterwards.

Help?

One possibility is to use another type of mod switcher. I've just read this:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=34559

I haven't tested yet, but if this works it would be easier than the ModSwitcher as it doesn't require any .rmd file.

This is because the fallback directory for the BI exe (version 1.4) is the Rome dataset. This should allow you to make Rome mods which incorporate BI features, although you will want to keep in mind that not all BI features will be available in the 1.3 exe.

That means that when you're making a mod this way, you're always starting from the Rome dataset, rather than the BI one. If you wanted to make a BI mod which leaves the original BI untouched you could write a little installer which made a copy of the BI directory, renamed it to 'minimod', then installed your extra changed files into it and added a program shortcut to the base directory called "Minimod" which starts rometw-bi.exe with '-mod:minimod' on the command line.

It may sound a little confusing at first, but I'm sure people will get the hang of it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JeromeGrasdyke

That means that when you're making a mod this way, you're always starting from the Rome dataset, rather than the BI one. If you wanted to make a BI mod which leaves the original BI untouched you could write a little installer which made a copy of the BI directory, renamed it to 'minimod', then installed your extra changed files into it and added a program shortcut to the base directory called "Minimod" which starts rometw-bi.exe with '-mod:minimod' on the command line.

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Problem is, that's not working. I made an exact copy of the bi folder and changed nothing, created a new shortcut with -mod:bicopy on the command line, and I get an error:

"Script Error in bicopy/data/descr_items.txt, at line 15, column 9.
include file not found in data/descr_items/:'di_spot_items.txt'"

Considering I changed absolutely nothing, just made a straight copy, that seems a bit problematic.

maybe you've missed descr_items.db ? I think that filetype is invisible if you have system files turned invisible, so you might have missed it if you copied all visible files and not the entire folder.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by [cF]Adherbal

maybe you've missed descr_items.db ? I think that filetype is invisible if you have system files turned invisible, so you might have missed it if you copied all visible files and not the entire folder.

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Nope - it's in there. Are you saying you tried this and it works for you?

no, just making sure. I just got BI today

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JeromeGrasdyke

This is because the fallback directory for the BI exe (version 1.4) is the Rome dataset. This should allow you to make Rome mods which incorporate BI features, although you will want to keep in mind that not all BI features will be available in the 1.3 exe.

That means that when you're making a mod this way, you're always starting from the Rome dataset, rather than the BI one. If you wanted to make a BI mod which leaves the original BI untouched you could write a little installer which made a copy of the BI directory, renamed it to 'minimod', then installed your extra changed files into it and added a program shortcut to the base directory called "Minimod" which starts rometw-bi.exe with '-mod:minimod' on the command line.

It may sound a little confusing at first, but I'm sure people will get the hang of it.

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I understand this completly.
It is what I feared though. :(

In such case, I would need 600MB of space for any such mod, making it again not so useful for popular moding (like some bug-fixer that changes a few text file).

Any chance of making "double fallback switch" for next patch. Would be great.

Look in minimod folder, if not there look in BI folder if BI-exe is used, if not there either look in original RTW data folder.

Something similar is used in Civilization3: Conquest expansion.

Look particular conquest folder, if not there look for expansion folder, if not there look for earlier "play the world" expansion folder, if not there look original Civ3 folder.

data files should be put in minimod\data folder, by the way, not just minimod folder.

Besides that Custom Battles will not work with the -mod: switch You can copy info and make a small mod that will load but using all the data from the vanilla the custom battles dont work just like in rtw 1.2

This Problem is REAL Jerome. :book:

Lt

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stuie

Nope - it's in there. Are you saying you tried this and it works for you?

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It worked for me when I tried it a minute ago... so if it doesn't on a retail build for you guys post it here and I will get someone to look at it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by player1

Any chance of making "double fallback switch" for next patch. Would be great.

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The problem is that loading speed in such a system will take a pretty severe hit. But it is something that we may look into.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lt1956

Besides that Custom Battles will not work with the -mod: switch You can copy info and make a small mod that will load but using all the data from the vanilla the custom battles dont work just like in rtw 1.2

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Chances are quite good that we will end up doing a 1.3.1/1.4.1 set of patches to fix various issues like the savegame compatbility problem. Hopefully we will be able to look at this as well.

if you make a copy of the whole BI folder and run that custom battles work fine. I tried to work from there adding my mod's export_descr_units file etc but ended up with just the same problem: custom battles won't launch :(

Can I just ask why custom battles are so important? Battle testing purposes?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JeromeGrasdyke

The problem is that loading speed in such a system will take a pretty severe hit. But it is something that we may look into.

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Then please do.
Or you could add special switch for that purpose so that unmoded game doesn't suffer.


Anyway -mod switch really needs to work well, to be accepted in mod community as default way of making mods.

I mean backing up originals and replaing them for every mod gets tiresome after the while (and not user friendy).

Quote:

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Can I just ask why custom battles are so important? Battle testing purposes?

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well for a start it's very hard to start a mod if you can't even test whether your units work. The first step of porting a mod to BI would be getting the new units to work. But that fails so there's not much point in porting over anything else...

and the campaign options seem to act weird too (clicking the option often gives a "select an option" dialog), but again there's not much point trying to figure that out if the custom battles won't start.

I've tried the -mod switch with the RomeTW.exe and that seems to work fine (custom battles work). So it must be that the BI.exe needs a certain file in the BI folder, because it's syntax is slightly different from the RTW folder's equivalent. Or atleast that's my best guess.

If only it would return some kind of error message... I wonder if Jerome could figure out why the custom battles fail ? It's really easy to repeat the problem:
-create a new folder called "test" in the RTW root folder
-create a data folder in this new folder
-copy paste RTW's export_descr_units.txt file in this data folder
-run the BI exe with "-mod:test" parameter
-try starting a custom battle and notice how it won't start

I remember in 1.2 that you needed to have descr_start.txt file from campaign folder in new folder stucture othwerwise custom battles would not starts.

As far as I remember.

[cF]Adherbal, the 1.3 is bugged also. It will work with the default UNIT files but not a edited one. when I tried it I can get the campaign to work using a vanilla campaign, but not the custom battles and ALL my tests were mainly done of 1.3.

For some reason once your reach an editing point in the file it isnt working on custom battles. just back to the menu. I would say for sure 1.3 is bugged also, but some others tried it and it didnt work also. But again if you use just the default files not edited then yes Custom battles work, but when they a severely edited they dont. Its weird.



Jerome:
Thanks for the reply, Also I am getting Lockups now on some of the units which worked perfectly fine for 1.2? Any reason why this could be happening. I have no idea if anyone else is having this issue? One time I actually got an error on one of them that said vertex something, and it was 8 lines of the same message in the 1 box. wierd.

Also if this helps Jerome, I the pilum units for the AI dont seem to Fire before attacking they just charge. And of course though this isnt a bug if your team can fix the 1st cohorts so they get a consecutive numeral no matter which province they are recruited in, so 10 1st's recruited in 10 provinces equals I-X with different provinces titles of course. its better than 10 1st cohorts with different titles.

Custom battles problem SOLVED!

In order to work you need to have copy of data\world\maps\campaign\imperial_campaign\descr_strat.txt file in your mod folder.

Also you need to have copy of whole data\world\maps\base folder in you mod folder.

Well I tested it out for 1.3 and indeed that works. But it doesnt work with the BI.exe So it does no good to port over to BI without it working for it also.

And there still remains issue with 1.2 compatibilty with models and maps. I dont want to have redo and entire map just to make it work in 1.3 it should be easy enough to get it to work with minor changes. So until a few more issues are resolved I'm not going to mess with BI.

Heck of alot of work just to get a mod to work with a patch much less a full xpack like BI. If they can make it a little less problematic and certain things to work and be fixed like I mentioned in the above post then I know I would look into BI as a modding platform. The naming Legions needs to be fixed as its not as effective as it can be, otehrwise I am better off with the unit naming of each 1st cohort like I did in SPQR.

Lt

Anyone else get the BI.exe to work with custom battles yet?

Also what ever that Vertex error is and crashes on the models units (lookinf for cas files that arent mine) seems to be related to the model_battle file and/or units file. So there does need to be some backwards compatibility otherwise as complete line by line change in the new files would have to be done. Wierd...

Also a couple of the biggest hold ups for me is the map issues, the 1.2 compatibilty, and more important the problem with AI pila units not firing their pila for the AI. Especially for a roman game. lol

Also would hurt on the numbering for 1st cohorts to be tracked for every province in your empire instead of 10 legio I's.

Lt1956

some progress:

I've made a copy of the whole BI folder, then started deleting and editing files till I had only 21 left (making sure custom still worked). I also removed all but 1 unit (edu and dmb). Then I changed the nomad and hun cultures to greek and egypt. Up to that point custom battles still worked. Then I changed the "hun" faction to "egypt". And now custom battles nolonger work.

I'll do more testing to see if I can fix this problem.

Sounds like as much fun as pulling ones hair out. lol Lets try to keep this thread ontop as this is most likely the place where Jerome will reply.

I'm trying to test out why the game looks for other cas files with the old RTW folder thats edited. So line by line on the units. Basically I get the impression the whole mod thing will be Line by line and I just dont feel 1.3 is worth it, expecially with the pilum bug. The wont fire now before attack for the AI. I confirmed this myself.

BI might be owrth switching to but the naming legions is useless as having 10 legio 1's isnt my idea of neat. I can just make 28 1st cohort units that come from 28 provinces and it looks better. All they have to do is make th game track the players 1st cohort and give it the correct sequence numerals. I,II,III no matter which province. Province should only be for titles. 30 is the highest number they should go and then start over, then you can just make sure you recruit from a different area.

Anyway I sidetracked myself. Pet Peave.

Oh I should be getting 3dmax when I do I plan to look into that BPI issue thing, and with Sigs pathway editor and the other editor for models should be nice.


Lt

[cF]Adherbal, narrow down the cause of the files and the crash to menu?:bow:

Bump

yeah I fixed the problem. It had to do with the map.rwm file after all. You need to delete it and then edit the BI descr_strat.txt file to make it compatible with the BI.exe. Actualy I did so many tests I can't really remember what fixed it. IIRC you just need to replace the BI faction with the RTW ones. Once the game generated a correct map.rwm file the custom battles loaded but crashed at 100% load. Apparently this had to do with missing sprites so make sure they are all there.

I'm still trying to get my mod's campaign to work. It still crashes back to menu, without returning an error message :(

Once I've manage to fix that problem I'll try to make a proper post on the exact changes I did.

EDIT: prove added :)
https://img443.imageshack.us/img443/3285/chivbi8uv.jpg

So you mean the vanilla Sprites also? So basically if I make a SPQR folder and use the -mod switch and then add all my little mod changes I will have to add the vanilla sprites also IF I use the BI.exe?

Just trying to figure out how to make sure the BI.exe works with our modding.

Lt

But they got to fix the pilum bug as thats a pain, worse than the HA bug IMO.

uh no, if you use vanilla sprites it'll work I guess. It's just that RTW didn't crash if sprites didn't exist (actualy it did, but only after the first battle) while BI does.

I haven't tested the pilum issue yet. This could be annoying indeed, if it's linked to the "prec" attribute. I use it a lot to remove the skirmish ability.

I havent tested far into what causes it, but its there and in 1.3 also. :embarassed:


I am still having toruble with the campaign maps, as it keeps going to Provential campaign instead of the imperial when I use the BI.exe.

So basically to get custom battles to work with BI you need to have the Base folder of BI installed in your mod folder? Because like I said I have had little success with BI.exe 1.3 has been pretty good, but BI seems to be a pain. :embarassed:

Oh well, There arent too many things in BI that attract my eye, the hord feature is neat, and the fixes for saved bug, and charge bonuses, the extra files to edit win conditions etc are nice, but that isnt a whole lot and I have seen what some of the scripting can do with 1.2 that exceeds BI features. :book:

Thanks for the help, it helps. lol:bow:

Thanks a lot Jerome I tried it and works fine ^^ ....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JeromeGrasdyke

The problem is that loading speed in such a system will take a pretty severe hit. But it is something that we may look into.

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Why not just allow multiple specifications in the -mod switch? So -mod:rtr:bi would check the rtr folder first, then the bi folder, then the base folder, and -mod:custom:rtr:bi would check custom, then rtr, then bi, then base, but -mod:rtr would just check rtr and then base.

I don't see why a quick scan of which folders are present followed by a quick scan of which files exist in the folders that are present should take much time, though, unless your hard drive is really slow.

The old Civ3 already does it with expansions.
Although it does have much less txt files (but there are unit animatiobs, graphics, etc...).

P.S.
I would definetly make bug-fixer this way (-mod), if all issues get resolved (double fallback, plus custom battles working). And I guess all moders would switch too, if it starts working in full glory.

It is working fine to me , what are the problems u are seeing?

My main gripe is that you can't make minimod for BI, by just adding mofidied file to new folder.

Instead you need to make whole copy of BI folder and then there to modify files you want.


P.S.
Not to mention that copying could take 10 minutes.

Actually to me works .... but I did copy all the bi folder then pasted in my stuff and start editing .....

Well of course that works, but it's not very handy at all.

Should every modmaker make an installer that will for 10 minutes copy original files once more, so that mod should work.

Has anyone managed to make mundus magnus or another map work in 1.3?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The historian

Has anyone managed to make mundus magnus or another map work in 1.3?

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Behold: TFT v1.8 working with -mod:the_first_triumvirate in RTW v1.3.

http://home.comcast.net/~daly916/tftv1.8.JPG

Well, at least non-BI mods (aka 1.3 mods), should work well with -mod switch.

Jerome: Why don't you just alter the -mod argument to take a folder name as string that is later resolved to the "Rome - Total War" diectory?

You could then check whether the supplied directory is in the BI-directory or in the original one and judge from this which files you should use for the missing files in the mod directory.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by [cF]Adherbal

I've made a copy of the whole BI folder, then started deleting and editing files till I had only 21 left (making sure custom still worked). I also removed all but 1 unit (edu and dmb). Then I changed the nomad and hun cultures to greek and egypt. Up to that point custom battles still worked. Then I changed the "hun" faction to "egypt". And now custom battles nolonger work.

I'll do more testing to see if I can fix this problem.

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Could you tell me a cleaned list of files via messenger?Or if u have a blanc model battle and related text files to have a blanck base from where to atart to add units?
I wanted to know too what I can work with without repeating what you already done so I can start adding the units and stuff from Shogun .....~:)

Seems that the mod switch dont allow to load mod specific sounds and music , will this be fixed in the next patch possibly?

As far as I can see -mod switch isn't improved in 1.5/1.6

That means that most moders will still use old "replace all files" method.

Pity...


P.S.
If there was just something as simple as Override (NWN) or CustomAssets (Civ4) folder.

I see this thread has died, and I don't mean to spam, but has anyone figured out custom battles in 1.6?

I can't seem to get it, and I would like to know the min requirement for them to work.

Any help would be appreciated.

I would like to second this plea from Player 1. And make a suggestion and a request.
"Or you could add special switch for that purpose so that unmoded game doesn't suffer.
Anyway -mod switch really needs to work well, to be accepted in mod community as default way of making mods.
I mean backing up originals and replaing them for every mod gets tiresome after the while (and not user friendy)."

Suggestion:
In "Campaign" folders (RTW/Data/World/Maps/Campaign/Players_Mod_Name/) Please make it possible to create a duplicate of the directory tree for the core game. This could be any part of the tree however small or big. And you should only need to have files here which are different from the core game, so no need for 600 odd MB of files. And no need to load things like Myrrdal's 4 turns a year every time you load. Every Mod could then be launched as a Provincial Campaign. You wouldn't need to paste files back and forth every time you wanted to play a different mod or base game. Slitherine were able to implement this system for Spartan Mods very easily. It would make a huge difference in being able to have lots of other folks mods easily accessible and not crucifying your HD capacity. And making minor mods where one only wants a few changes.

Request: Can someone point me to where there are instructions on using the -mod switch. I have searched the forums and can find lots of stuff on it except what it is and how to use it.