Which do you think is worse for the individual and society and why Pot or Alcohol?
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Which do you think is worse for the individual and society and why Pot or Alcohol?
I can never quite picture Gawain taking some hits w/o chuckling to myself...:balloon2:
I can handle them... take 'em away from everyone else and leave it to those who are responsible, like me~;)
~:cheers:
And, don't you think bud every day is a little excessive, Gawain? See, we've already found someone who can't handle it.
Weed, as you say, can be used to help leachemia patients, while alcohol does things only alcohol can do, both as bad.
Booze is the worst everytime.
It can make people very violent - we all know this to be a fact - I've been beaten up many a time by pissed up wankers. Never felt violent or seen anyone being violent or destructive under the effect of weed.
Alcohol is also alot easier to consume even when you've had too much - you can't skin up if you've smoked or eaten too much weed.
Plus state funded growth of Marijuana can produce alot more than just delicious bundles of smoking fun.
Booze is worse but both of them are disgusting and pointless vices which no intelligent form of life should ever indulge in.
Best thing to do: universal ban on both and ridiculously-long prison sentences for anyone who uses them after the ban.
Now I;d keep weed but then ban booze and religion. Alcohol and relgion have given people the exuse to cause alot more harm and suffering than weed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Navaros
Wow ~:eek: don't sit on the fence....tell us what you really think!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Navaros
On topic:
Booze is far worse. It is addictive, spliff aint. Never mind the effects an alcoholic can have on their family and friends.....I've never had a day off work 'cos I had too much toke the night before, but I have if I've been to a party/wedding/ladsniteout and had 'one over the odds'.
:smoking: ~:smoking:
Booze is worse, it's the one I indulge in though, and I fear I might have to pay the price some day soon...
But Doc you live in a country famed for it's beer ~:cheers: , amongst other things ~;)
The sheer number of patients in my local mental-health hospital suffering from cannabis related break downs and other problems stemming from its missuse is testament to only one thing:
Cannabis and alcohol, like all drugs, supplements, vitamins, food groups etc taken by humans if used incorrectly or in excess will cause serious harm that can often result in lasting damage, both to yourself and society. Cannabis can be addictive if it is used as an escape.
While actual fatalities resulting directly from cannabis use would be much lower (as a percentage of its total use), the number of people suffering from serious side-effects will be just as high. Also worth pointing out is that most people choose to smoke weed, which can cause lung-cancer and bronchitis and the tobacco taken in parallel can cause heart disease and significantly shorten life expectancy. It is also addictive and people can become psycologically addicted to weed, although they actually only crave the tobacco.
That said, taken in moderation and in groups (and never as an escape) it is just as safe as many forms of abuse we put our bodies through. Remember, coffee, vitamin supplements, energy drinks, saturated fats are harmful too but no one gones crazy over their use.
While some say that alcohol makes people aggressive, people here are violent whether or not they have been drinking. Cannabis, however, is more anti-social (from what I've seen), because people generally sit in and toke away, and non-tokers sit around waiting for something interesting to happen. Cannabis is addictive, though; you should have seen my friend last week after not having any for a few days...
Personally I feel that weed is worse. Alcohol is a short vacation from the stress of major daily activities-- weed IS a major daily activity.
And while alcohol loosens you up and facilitates social interaction, weed shuts you up and makes you paranoid. Yes, if you're an experienced pot-head you will probably be able to function anyway, but the fact remains that weed turns you inward-- so what's the point?
And when you're high, what do you do?? You sit, you smoke some more, and you laugh at stupid stuff. That's it. Personally I feel that people who get their kicks from weed are missing out on life. And I know that weed doesn't sap everyone's ambition but there is a connection there.
..
Now it is true, the worst case scenarios for alcohol are more serious-- but is that how we should be judging things? Based on the worst that could happen?
The fact that other people might be stupid or weak with alcohol won't stop me from having beer or wine with my meal or getting drunk and going dancing once in a while. And getting stoned, doing nothing, and feeling the haze for three days afterwards, no matter how low the risk, just doesn't appeal to me.
But if weed's your thing then more power to you no hate here.
DA
Im not sure why you think that the recreational use of marijuana is a 'major daily activity' anymore than recreational drinking.
I dont personally sit at home doing mothing but smoke. I may have a joint whislt playing Total War but then Im far more likely to have a glass of wine or a can of beer.
If I do smoke alot of marijuana then its with other smokers - and its a very social thing. There may be 'non smoker's' among us but then there are often 'non drinkers' with me when I go to the pub and Im sure they dont find us drunken rabble that interesting when they are sober.
And Alcholism is physically addictive - there are physical side affects when a constant abuser is deprived of it.
He probably has an addictive personality. If alcohol was illeagal or not freely avaliable then Im sure you'd see plenty of peope in the street or at work acting rather stressed out.Quote:
Cannabis is addictive, though; you should have seen my friend last week after not having any for a few days..
I would say alcohol is probably worse, due to the violence. However, I really enjoy a nice cold beer, so I voted pot.
Also, I find persistent stoners really annoying to hang around with. A schoolmate of mine who smokes a lot just walks around in a daze-he's never got any energy.
I know a family who just lost their house because they couldn't afford their mortgage and their heavy pot habit.
The parents do little but smoke pot and go to work and one of their kids (who is a heavy heavy pot smoker) just sits in his room and plays video games and gets high all day like he has for the past 8 years.
They all turn in to utter gits when they can't get their fix.
So, alcohol means you can do utterly retarded stuff and pot can make you smoke your life away.
Surely it's just a matter of keeping things in proportion for both.
I would have to say weed.
I cook with alcohol!
Weed isn't very addictive. Alcohol is a whole lot worse.
You can cook with weed too...
Anyway, I said both.
As far as I know you can only die from an alcohol overdose, not a THC (active ingredient) overdose. At least one that is selfinduced.
Having tried both I can tell you this much, weed is fun, but it soon gets old (I can't be bothered with it now), and it is hard to enjoy it is small doses (like a single glass of wine or beer, or even a scotch).
But to say it is the entire activity of the day is to equate it to the drunkards on the street. Yes, that is so with some, just like it is so with the drunkards. But are all who drink alcohol addicted? I severely doubt it. I can go weeks even months without drinking any alcohol, but I do drink it and I get drunk too. Perhaps more previously than now.
Both can be enjoyed without making them a problem for the person. Trouble comes if the person has nothing to do, besides indulging in these substances. We can see the effects of repeated abuse of alcohol on our streets quite often, but seldomly weed. But of course both can send people sprawling on the streets (lost house and so on).
Here alcohol wins because it is cheaper due to being legal. If weed was legal it would actually be cheaper than most alcohol.
*cough* rubbish*cough*Quote:
Originally Posted by Taffy_is_a_Taff
Ya, pot isn't even physically addictive. Seems to me that family had other hobby's.Quote:
Originally Posted by monkian
I reckon psychological dependence works.
I suppose nobody else knows stoners who spend all their money and time on getting high and doing nothing else.
*cough* you don't know them *cough*
Both are crack. They suck big time.
I've seen stoned people and I've seen smashed people, I'd rather hang around with the stoners but in excess both are bad...simple eh? As to which one's worse? I have no idea. I tend to see more smashed people then stoners. Though I will say house parties wouldn't be as fun without drunk idiots to laugh at (I'm a teetotaller because I find I seem to be allergic to alchohol)
In that case there are probably people that got thrown out of their houses for their coffee addiction.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taffy_is_a_Taff
coffee is somewhat cheaper than pot
And more addictive as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taffy_is_a_Taff
Do any of you know why most people check themselves into a rehab center for addiction. Its not for alcohol or pot or coke or even herion. Its for sex. The most addictive thing on the planet.
anyway, true story, sure there were a few more factors involved than pot but the ridiculously heavy pot consumption was their major extravagance and the person in charge of the finances didn't tell anybody else that they weren't in the best situation and so they continued to spend loads of money on the cannabis.
I don't know if they could be described as addicted though. They sure are moody without it.
Bit impolite of me to question your story. The effect of the drug tends to make people a bit ez when it comes to priorities. But in itselve it is pretty harmless; certainly not as damaging as alcohol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taffy_is_a_Taff
edit, same as on ttlg or frag confused.
the good news is that they have their situation sorted out and are still smoking up a storm.
~:cheers:
That one kid still has no life but the pot and videogames though, which is a pretty sad state of affairs.
:(
See now pot and videogames doesnt seem sooooo bad to me ~;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Taffy_is_a_Taff
Sorry to be so abrubt in my earlier post but your story didnt seem particulary realistic to me. I would'nt have questioned it if you had subsituted pot with alcohol as that is a much more common story.
it's ok, you're from GLC land.
Anyway, yeah, it's not the sort of thing you usually hear of.
Hehehe, used to work with one of them actually - the older bloke with the beard. Used work in Technical Support with me ~;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Taffy_is_a_Taff
Alcohol definately. By a long long way.
But it's legal, so you'll only go to prison for being drunk/violent/rude rather than for actually using it.
Ah, the logic behind the law...
Imagine how surprised they are when they learn that the rehab clinic doesn't *provide* sex.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
"Excuse me, there must be some sort of mistake. If I'm spending this much money I'm expecting a bit more action." ~D
I voted alcohol. I've done it all and stopped long long long ago, but I understand the propensity to abuse either substance. I just drink now... in case you haven't noticed.~D
I believe alcohol is worse. The effects can take you to blackout. MJ alone cannot (and I know from exp.).
Alcohol impairs your judgement AND inhibitions at the same time, a nightmare combination that makes doing dumb thing seem like a great idea. On the contrary MJ makes you paranoid and affects your perception rather than judgment, resulting in you doubting an idea and being too inhibited to do it either way: much safer.
Alcohol does not MAKE people violent (though tequila would sometimes convince me otherwise), it makes you react more rashly due to the judgment/inhibition combo. I have NEVER seen someone on pot get violent (and I have seen aplenty); I instead see them whine and surrender the argument.
You can overdose on alcohol and die. You can overdose on pot and fall asleep comfortably.
The bottom line: Alcohol contributes to aggression but has less effects on material motivation. Marijuana decreases aggression and makes people fat and lazy. On any day of the week I would rather be surrounded by fat, lazy, stupid, happy stoners then a bunch of angry drunks spoiling for a fight.
edit: Addiction.
Alcohol is proven to be physically addictive resulting in the degenerative disease we all know and love called alcoholism.
Marijuana just feels so good that users want to do it all the time because they enjoy it so much. It is not physically addictive. They just like it. For some it is an occassional thing, for many it becomes a hobby shared with friends, for still others it becomes a lifestyle choice.
The main problem with weed has been that it mellows folks out too much, sucks away their drive. Compared to alcohol, it is pretty mild, as the hardcore pot smokers I knew in college could still ace difficult engineering exams, while the alcoholics were lucky to pass their tests.
One answer for violent offenders: *require* them to smoke pot as a way of mellowing them out.
The really hardcore stuff like heroin, replaces everything else in peoples lives.
Some of you guys are admitted criminals! ~:eek:
LOL!
Neither is good or bad. They are just there. If you feel like it you can try both and then decide if it's worth doing again. I find that things people call addictive are only addictive because those people are weak or are really sensitive to things like that. I've smoked cigarettes, cigars, I've drunk a lot of booze, and I would not crave any of it again until my crappy friends wanted to do it again because they are addicted.
As for me, I get high out of my own censory addiction to philosophy. I remember my first Nietzsche, it was so enthralling I almost thought I was God for a second. ~:)
I voted alcohol. In general that's the more destructive of the two options with regard to other people, whereas stoned people just tend to sit around and stuff. But on a personal basis both are bad in excess, as are most things.
You guys don't get it do you? It doesn't matter what others do. Even if it affects you!
It's their choice to be the way they are, just like you choose to not drink to much or eat too much. It's all about personal choice.
Neither pot nor alcohol are destructive.
Now philosophy on the other hand can make people do some crazy things.
*Remembers time BP sprayed 'God is dead' all over church* :laugh4:
They can both be very dangerous, but I'd have to say alcohol is slightly worse. I have two main reasons:
1. You cannot overdose on weed.
2. Alcohol makes some people violent, whereas I have never seen or heard of weed alone having this effect. Weed just makes you hungry. They actually did a study once where they were testing the effects of weed and alcohol on drivers. People who were drunk drove over the limit and took dangerous chances; the people on weed drove under the limit and hugged the curb :)
So, I'd have to go with alcohol, while recognizing that both can be dangerous: alcohol to the individual and society, weed more just to the individual.
To be honest, I can't honestly say I've ever witnessed an episode of alcohol-induced violence. And I've certainly spent plenty of time in places where you'd expect it to occur. Perhaps that's because the vast majority of my drinking experience has been in Mexico, with Mexicans and hippies, who are both very happy drunks.
So actually, I'm going to go out alone here and call rubbish on the alcohol-violence link. If you're not looking for a fight in the first place, no amount of alcohol will find you one. People who get drunk and get in fights have in most cases planned it that way, or were at least open to the idea.
DA
Alcohol is by far the worst , you have to pay tax on it .
I agree with what Ah Dut said.
I voted that alcohol is worse. I'd rather be around stoners than drinkers, especially here where the young men are such angry, violent drunks. Marijuana tends to mellow people out and make them less violent and aggressive. Our government could use more of it.
On the other hand, I must say that this is one area where I disagree with Monkian. I have seen the longterm effects of Marijuana on my friends, and it's sad. They all have dull facial expressions, are slow, and are not nearly as quick in the mind. That's a real shame because almost all of them used to be such sharp, intelligent people.
There's one who used to be good competition in games. Now, he's easy to deceive and trick. He makes obviously bad moves. Sometimes, he has trouble thinking of simple solutions to daily problems, even though he designs radio-controlled airplanes. Other friends stare into space a lot. They are less aware of things around them and even when someone is speaking to them.
Ask them and they are completely unaware of their limitations, but it's obvious to the rest of us.
That said, I'd rather people used marijuana than alcohol. Neither are bad in small quantities. Alcohol has a perfectly good place in society.
By the way, I've never tried marijuana, even though I hung around with stoners all through high school. I have had contact highs, I'm sure, but never direct intake. I don't like the taste of any alcohol, so I get no pleasure from it. I just reluctantly drink it for ceremonial reasons, like weddings and Japanese customs.
What do I do for fun? I use music, exercise, good conversation, and good sensuality to get high.
I agree with the people that have said alcohol is worse. It is.
But weed is not good either. Smoking (cigarettes) should be banned, if you were to ban alcohol.
Considering I am a teetotaler and non-smoker, I advocate banning both. But since I am more liberal than many in terms of social issue, I could not bring myself to advocate banning both against my principles. See the paradox? Weed and alcohol are bad. Alcohol is worse in terms of it being more damaging to society (just observe all the drunk drivers out there.) I vote both are just as bad. Unfortunately, so many people are, sadly, relying on alcohol in everyday life that banning it could've caused another prohibition period.Quote:
Originally Posted by Craterus
However, considering the laws around these, I found them to be highly hypocritical, even if I understand the motives behind them. Why ban "weed" (different from cigarettes a bit, though I hate both, with cigarettes being more passionately so--it harms me with more nicotin in my lungs when it's them smoking the damn thing everywhere; I could've claimed that I feel threatened and stab them if I'm in Florida--pot I've been less exposed to) that can only really harm an individual (which many, including me, would argue for his/her personal liberty/responsiblity) while alcohol, which continuously causes side effect damages, are legal?
I voted for "pot" as the worse of the two -- but the both option was quite tempting.
My experience with alchohol is both personal and familial, with marijuana its familial and vicarious through friends and acquaintances.
As noted above, the long term physical effects of prolonged drinking at moderate or better levels can be devastating. Alcohol is more likely to kill through poisoning death than is marijuana. As a mood alterer, alcohol is more likely to trigger aggression and violence.
Both alter a person's physical reactions and judgement. Thus either can make it unwise to drive etc. Both are more problematic when used to excess than when used in moderation.
Marijauna use, since smoking is the primary form of use, can also be associated with lung cancer and other long term pulmonary problems, but does not trigger diabetes or some of the things alcohol does. The mood/attitude alteration effects of marijauna can last substantially longer than those associated with alcohol -- in part precisely because the physical side effects are less debilitating.
Which leads to my vote: I have known too many bright people who used MJ, and ended up trashing years of their life as a consequence. One example is a younger brother who started enjoying "weed" in college, and then "woke up" 6 or so years later realizing that he had accomplished absolutely nothing of worth in the interim. He received no lasting harm, he did not alter his genes, he even managed to get a degree (on autopilot as his grades indicated). But he managed to achieve zork toward having a useful and productive life and was playing "catch up" for years.
The clear majority of those getting drunk on weekends pretty much give up drinking after a few years, but the side-effects of drinking mean that most people do not stay drunk for long and get lots of stuff done when not -- not so the other "substance." Sadly, the one's who go on years-long "vacations" with marijuana tend to be the brighter ones, magnifying the loss for them and for all of us.
Seamus
Weed.
First of all, it's illegal. That means it's bad, usually. 9 times out of 10 at least. Also, weed causes Cancer, and gives people around you cancer. It causes the munchies and makes people incredibly thin.
Alcohol, on the other hand, tastes good, is ok as long as you don't get smashed, only punishes the liver, and best of all, is at least semi-legal!
In moderation neither is really a problem for the individual.
Achocol has a benefit of helping the blood system when used in moderation.
Pot has a medical benefit for easing some pain associated with several conditions.
Used in extreme or in excess both are bad. Because of this extremes society suffers because of it.
Did I ever say Ciggerrettes were good for society? ~;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube
Also, if it makes a chance of less babies (alcohol makes a chance for more babies), then it's bad when we have enemies like China! ~:cheers:
Abuse of alcohol is far more damaging to individuals and to society than the abuse of marijuana, imo.
Can you provide any documentation to support this statement? Where is this mental health hospital? Is it public, or privately owned by a religious institution? The idea of "cannibis-related break downs" seems utterly absurd to me. It smells of brainwashing propaganda ... .Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Khalifah
In uni we debated this topic at length. The overwhelming majority of the class accepted that thousands of deaths and serious illnesses can be directly attributed to alcohol abuse, and that this was not the case with marijuana abuse. We had a doctor come in and speak about it, and he affirmed this opinion.
Agreed. It's abuse by humans--the lack of common sense and self-control--that is problematic. Kinda like the situ with guns ... but hey, so many get off on wanting to control others, "playing God" by dictating what others should or should not do. Is anyone surprised that the slower, more difficult path of evolving our sense of personal responsibility falls by the wayside?Quote:
Originally Posted by Byzantine Prince
Tell the spartans at Thermopolaye that...wait...They're dead! ~:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube
YEY! Toga is back! ~:cheers:Quote:
Originally Posted by TogakureOjonin
How's everything going?
Both are bad for your health.
Ironically, cigarettes are deadlier than both.
What?~:eek: The studies show the contrary even the ones that link marihuana at all with cancer. Here's one that shows the contrary: link.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube
Marihuana has no considerable or significant effect on cancer production.~:cool:
So does morphine. Should that be made readily available?Quote:
Originally Posted by Redleg
Did he say that it should? I don't think so. He was just posting a good thing that weed does.Quote:
Originally Posted by King Henry V
Alcohol, however, doesn't really have an advantage...
No it should be available wheter it causes pain or pleasure, or both, what's your point?~:confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by King Henry V
True, lol, but it is a Quality over Quantity example. What if the Persians did have tanks ~DQuote:
Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube
Now I'm just getting silly.
IMO pot is bad because it scrambles you brain and can lead to schyzophrenia as well as cancer. I think that as we are getting ever stricter with smoking, this is not the time to get softer on cannabis. It also has a most repugnant stink.
Alcohol is bad only when too much is consumed. A glass of alcohol every evening is not as bad for you as a joint every night. However, when used extremely, alcohol can be more damagin, so I think that both are as bad as each other.
No, but what many people have siad is that "marijuana is ok because it cna help with pain". So does morphine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Craterus
Booze is worse. It seems to me it is causes far more often negative affects. And it isn't as fun.
It doesn't smell bad! It smells way better than damn cigarrettes. Pot smells very good. Alchol smells worse than pot.Quote:
IMO pot is bad because it scrambles you brain and can lead to schyzophrenia as well as cancer. I think that as we are getting ever stricter with smoking, this is not the time to get softer on cannabis. It also has a most repugnant stink.
And what proof is there that it causes scizophrenia? Alcholism is really bad, btw. You can't get addicted to pot, but you certaintly can to alchol. I have a large history of alcholism in my family, and it's not pretty.
After reading everybody's comments, I think this poll needs to be modified. Which is worse for society and which is worse for the individual. There is a big difference.
The advantage of alcohol is clear:Quote:
Originally Posted by Craterus
It makes me drunk and then I post ridiculous nonsense.
You can post nonsense without alcohol, therfore, no advantage. ~;)
Pot ,IMO, has a horrible, sickly sweet smell that makes me want to puke. Cigarettes don't do that, but I can't really breathe with smoke in my face. Then again, you can't really breathe when you want to puke. Alacohol can smell bad (like bad wine or something), but it does not have an over powering stench.You can get addicted to pot in the way that you begin to really miss the effects of the drug. And from articles that I have read, cannabis can cause schizophrenia.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steppe Merc
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4305783.stm
When I tried to argue with Pindar about the definition of 'but' while I was inebriated, I made a rule for not posting like that again.~:) Of course, there was that time when I thought it would be a good idea to break the rule in one of Hurin's threads, but it turned out that it wasn't a good idea after all.:embarassed:Quote:
It makes me drunk and then I post ridiculous nonsense.
The really funny thing is that I actually never suspected this before ~;pQuote:
Originally Posted by Divinus Arma
A few things do make alot more sense now...
DA
Then you must have missed my loss of sense a couple months ago...Quote:
Originally Posted by Del Arroyo
Whew. I racked up more warnings then Will Robinson on his way to the bathroom!
Booze isn't as fun! Booze is the ball! You can do fun things like get drunk and lose a friend at a pothead festival during a school-sponsored event! :pirate:Quote:
Originally Posted by Steppe Merc
Yeah, or be like my friend, get drunk, pass out at a school football game, go to the hospital to get your stomach pumped, get suspended, have your car impounded, not be able to go on the school trip to Disney World, and be grounded for the next 6 months. Yay.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser of Arabia
Oh, and pot smells wonderful. It just smells great. My dad agrees with me on the smell, that cigarrettes smell way worse. If I'm at a concert, and I'm not smoking, the smell of pot always cheers me up, gets me in the right refrence.
Both are forms of escapism. If you have an enjoyable life, I dont know why you would need to spend money getting a high off of anything.
Because it's fun...duh ~:)Quote:
Originally Posted by PanzerJager
Meh, I'd outlaw both. All they seem to do is cause trouble, atleast from my personal experiences. Reason why I refuse to do either.
Couldn't we use the same arguments as when we discuss gun control. Drugs and booze doesn't make people addicited, people that use it are the real offenders...... ~;)
Yup. ~DQuote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser of Arabia
As for escapism, isn't that why we do anything? Why we read, why we watch tv or play video games?
Of course taken to the extreme, its bad. Many people who suffered from depression in the past were alcholics, because it helped relieve them of their pain. They ended up dying miserable, and well drunk. But people who only watch to much tv or do video games can end up messed up too.
As for increased chance of cancer, well, that's the persons choice if they want to gamble.
Guns have useful purposes though. Alcohol and weed don't, other then to get screw up your senses. Guns, are a another situation.Quote:
Originally Posted by bmolsson
Exactly. I believe Abokasee is never drunk. ~DQuote:
Originally Posted by Craterus
Also, it is my belief that pot is addictive psychologically. While alcohol is both.
Well, asking those who advocate (and practice, i.e. "do") alcohol and pot, and they'd say both have useful purposes...
And, OMFG, I hate the smell of cigarettes.
Bias BS based on what? Your statement appears to be a infamous Murphy's Law.~D ("but all addictions come at a price, and that's one of them")Quote:
Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube