Kings cannot retool. If they try... blammo

You all probably know that Kings cannot retool, that is, go through training to get better armor / sword upgrades. You cannot put them into the queue. The game will not let you.

Your princes, however, can retool.

So what happens when the prince next in line for king is in the queue to be retrained, and your king keels over from the Fandango Fan Dancing Disease making the rounds of your kingdom?

As you all know as well, when your king is crowned, he magically teleports to the most developed area of the kingdom and becomes a rearing horse instead of a guy in armor icon. They give him a big honkin wax seal and a foofy robe, a crown resplendent with tonnes of jewelry ransacked from other less fortunate kingdoms, and he gets to call everyone thee and talk about himself in the third person plural. ("We are pleas'd to see thee.") But if he's also in a queue, you've got a ticking time bomb that will end the world as you know it, or at least that iteration of the game. Cause the moment that king's unit hits the retooling factory, you'll see your screen go black and then you'll be looking at that stupid "Send error message to microsoft, as if they could or would do anything to fix it?" message.

So it went:
Me: (Noting there is an icon in the queue for the king's unit that has 0/0 stats. 0 men, 0 valour?) WTF? (Try to remove it; not successful. Hit "End Turn button.")

Game: Crash! Burn!

Me: !$#*^@&!#&*(#&*(~!

I blamed the French, since they're the largest faction in my game and they're everywhere, but when I went back to my saved game, I made sure the prince first in line for the king wasn't in any retooling queues, just to be sure. Success.

Interesting. I didn't know about retooling. How do you do that?
Have you tried to put your king in a province which had an armourer and a metalsmith because when your heir matures he appears in the province where your king is. If he appears there he might get the weapons and armour upgrades as do the units that are trained there.

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Originally Posted by miho

Interesting. I didn't know about retooling. How do you do that?
Have you tried to put your king in a province which had an armourer and a metalsmith because when your heir matures he appears in the province where your king is. If he appears there he might get the weapons and armour upgrades as do the units that are trained there.

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Yar, by retooling, you take old units and you can put them in a province with, as you put it, an armourer and a metalsmith. Open the unit ordering window, where you would normally select new units, click on your old unit to be retooled, and lift the unit from your center bottom window into one of the order boxes. (I hope that makes sense.) Your old unit will receive any new armor/weapon bonuses, and will be topped up with new 0 valor troops to fill out the compliment of numbers. Thus, after an army has been chopped up in battle, and you have 2 archers left in a unit out of 120, you can do this trick, which will take only 1 year instead of the usual 2 years for a new unit.

It took me a few days to figure out how to do this, as they mention it in the manual but it wasn't clear how it was done to me at first.

So, speed and cost are two factors on retooling.

I have noted that the new heirs come out with the bonuses of the province they're "born" in, that is, whereever the king was the year they turned 16. Gold sword, gold shield, those are some tough units (and slow!).

Once he's king he should stay out of battles anyway and just breed generals. Keep him garrisoned in your most teched up providence and the heirs that mature will have all the enhancements.

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Originally Posted by Grond

I have noted that the new heirs come out with the bonuses of the province they're "born" in, that is, whereever the king was the year they turned 16. Gold sword, gold shield, those are some tough units (and slow!).

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Slow? Unless you're playing the Byz, your royal cav is as fast as the average speed cav (those without the mentioning of fast in thier description), no matter thier upgrades.

This glitch has been around since MTW came out and worth repeating. Two things help get around it: 1) keep king where there is just "the best of everything" so his sons get it automatically; 2) hit cntl-S at the end of each turn so if you get the CTD you don't lose too much-this alao helps with other CTD issues.

Some minor corrections, if you don´t mind:
"We" is first person plural ~;)

And archers need only one turn to train, at least in the plain, unmodded game, as do all units but ships or artillery. Retraining, therefore isn´t faster than retraining, especially since retraining is done just like production, one unit a time, unlike RTW.

The king is teleported home? I never noticed, I always thought he remained where he was as a prince. I´ll have to pay closer attention to my king.

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Originally Posted by HopAlongBunny

This glitch has been around since MTW came out and worth repeating. Two things help get around it: 1) keep king where there is just "the best of everything" so his sons get it automatically; 2) hit cntl-S at the end of each turn so if you get the CTD you don't lose too much-this alao helps with other CTD issues.

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Ah, I'm part of the "second wave" MTW players who showed up when it started being sold at Target for $10.00. We're just discovering the game, while most of the 1500 post folks are like, "Yawn. Yes. We've played that game. We've moved on to BI."

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Originally Posted by Ciaran

Some minor corrections, if you don´t mind:
"We" is first person plural ~;)

And archers need only one turn to train, at least in the plain, unmodded game, as do all units but ships or artillery. Retraining, therefore isn´t faster than retraining, especially since retraining is done just like production, one unit a time, unlike RTW.

The king is teleported home? I never noticed, I always thought he remained where he was as a prince. I´ll have to pay closer attention to my king.

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I was, however, under the impression that it costs less to retrain to train, but I don't know where those stats are or where I read that.

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Originally Posted by Grond

Ah, I'm part of the "second wave" MTW players who showed up when it started being sold at Target for $10.00. We're just discovering the game, while most of the 1500 post folks are like, "Yawn. Yes. We've played that game. We've moved on to BI."

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I was part of this 'second wave' too ~D , but we learn fast and freshen up
the forum ~;) .

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Originally Posted by dgfred

I was part of this 'second wave' too ~D , but we learn fast and freshen up
the forum ~;) .

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Welcome, fellow 2nd waver!

We're sort of like the Byzantine Empire, after the glory of Rome faded. Still around, just johnny come latelies.

Don't regular units take two years to train if you play on "huge" unit sizes? Perhaps Grond and Ciaran are playing on different unit sizes and that is the cause of that bit of confusion.

And yes, your prince often gets moved when he is crowned king, which can be terribly annoying sometimes (Like when one of your crucial defensive armies is suddenly robbed of a good commander!, etc. etc.).

Ajax

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Originally Posted by Grond

I was, however, under the impression that it costs less to retrain to train, but I don't know where those stats are or where I read that.

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Retraining only costs when you're adding men to a depleted unit, and then the cost is prorated per man. For example: if it costs 300 florins to build a certain unit of 60 men, and you're retraining a depleted unit up from 30 men back to full strength, then it would only cost 150 florins (300/2) the original unit cost. If you have a full strength unit, and you're retraining to gain weapon, armor, or valor bonuses, then it's free (other than the turn lost).

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Originally Posted by Ciaran

And archers need only one turn to train, at least in the plain, unmodded game, as do all units but ships or artillery.

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Ah, you forgot the Varangian guards.

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Originally Posted by Ciaran

The king is teleported home? I never noticed, I always thought he remained where he was as a prince. I´ll have to pay closer attention to my king.

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Yes. The game automatically choose the most developed province as your "capital", where your prince will be teleported to once he takes the throne.

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Ah, you forgot the Varangian guards.

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You also both forgot Viking Bersekers.

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Yes. The game automatically choose the most developed province as your "capital", where your prince will be teleported to once he takes the throne.

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How does the game choose which is the most developed province? By income, buildings, trainable units,... ?

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Originally Posted by miho

How does the game choose which is the most developed province? By income, buildings, trainable units,... ?

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Province with the most buildings, is seen as your capital.

Yeah the king always goes to your most developed province - I think its the one with the highest number of buildings from experience, but I'm not sure. Actually it seems to me that the level of the building is irrelivant, just the number of buildings - can anyone confirm?
Okay a little off topic, but heres a little story I thought I would share as it just shows how this game continues to challenge and never gets old (there is a connection!)
I was playing the turks from early on expert with an emipre which stretched from Spain to Constantinople - winning too easily so I decided to give myself a challenge. The Germans kept crusading against me so I took Ireland as a stategic base and then dropped the king of Ireland and a single stack of my best troops onto Saxony (the home of their crusade). I won a glorious battle against huge odds and so destroyed their crusade, so they declared another right away. I couldnt see which province it had come from so I started going through their territories (mostly they withdrew without a fight) destroying all their religious buildings until I came to Champagne where the crusade was from so I attacked that too and won another great battle. By this point I was feeling pretty pleased with myself and my single stack army was getting a little depleted so I decided enough was enough and that I would fight my way back to Saxony where there was a port and treat my troops to the heroes feast they deserved. This is where the game threw me a curve ball! The turn I took Champagnethe English, who were the 2nd most powerful faction by quite a distance, attacked the Germans the same turn as I took Champagne and this cut off my connection with the German teritories. My single depleted stack was then surrounded by red with atleast 2 full stacks in every surrounding province.
That turn my sultan died and the new sultan turned up......come on I'm sure you've guessed it by now.........Champagne!
The loyalty dropped across my empire and the next turn the English attacked with about 6 stacks.
I will never tire of this game.

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Originally Posted by tigger_on_vrb

Yeah the king always goes to your most developed province - I think its the one with the highest number of buildings from experience, but I'm not sure. Actually it seems to me that the level of the building is irrelivant, just the number of buildings - can anyone confirm?

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Yes, it is the total number of buildings, not level. In my Polish games the king always comes up in Lithuania instead of Poland, because of the port buildings. At least until Poland gets it University and such.

Well, I apologize, I was refering t the units I´ve used so far, and that are only the catholic ones, and I´m playing on the default (133 spears, 80 swords etc) unit size, so I can´t tell about other settings there, too.
About retraining, I think but do not know for sure, that the unit price is the sum of the per-man-prices, and retraining costs the sum of the men to be retrained times the man-price, so, a unit of spears reduced to one man costs almost the same to retrain as a new spear unit costs.

Well if you think of it its quite logical that kings cannot retool. If they could it would mean that they are absent for some time and can't happen in medieval.

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Originally Posted by miho

Well if you think of it its quite logical that kings cannot retool. If they could it would mean that they are absent for some time and can't happen in medieval.

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Not really. Retooling only means getting your hands on that new, shiny set of swords and plate armour to keep yourself up-to-date in Medieval fashion. ~;)

And the most number of buildings are considered the "capital." If it so happens that there are more than one province with the most buildings around, the one that reached that point first will be chosen.

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Originally Posted by tigger_on_vrb

That turn my sultan died and the new sultan turned up......come on I'm sure you've guessed it by now.........Champagne!

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Ah, you have no one else to blame on the fact that you allowed Champagne to develop itself farther than any of your provinces--especially since you have Constantinople in hand. ~;)

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Originally Posted by miho

You also both forgot Viking Bersekers.

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And all three of you forgot hashishin, grand inquisitors, and (if you don't count them as siege weapons) naphtha throwers. ~;)

I know this might sound a little strange but, in my last game as the French I build an Amourer in Ilse De France. My king was also positioned there. When the armourer was completed, my king also got a shield-icon! I'm sure if this really works, I'll double check it as soon as possible.

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Originally Posted by AntiochusIII

Not really. Retooling only means getting your hands on that new, shiny set of swords and plate armour to keep yourself up-to-date in Medieval fashion.

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Well when you retool an ordinary unit you put in on the training list. If you put a king to retool it would be like training a king which you can't do.

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Originally Posted by ajaxfetish

And all three of you forgot hashishin, grand inquisitors, and (if you don't count them as siege weapons) naphtha throwers. ~;)

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And all four of us also forgot Hashishin (don't know who they are, I've just seen them in gnome), Crusades and Jihads (if you count them as units, but they are still built in the same way as other units). That would be all of them unless you have some mods which add units.

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Originally Posted by AntiochusIII

Ah, you have no one else to blame on the fact that you allowed Champagne to develop itself farther than any of your provinces--especially since you have Constantinople in hand. ~;)

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I think this tells us the answer to what we were discussing - Constantinople (and Egypt, Rum and others for that matter!) had a citadels and champagne had a castle and I had much higher level buildings, but because of my province specialisation had less number of buildings

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Originally Posted by miho

And all four of us also forgot Hashishin (don't know who they are, I've just seen them in gnome)

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They are 12men unit exculsive to Muslim factions. Although expensive, I think they deserve its cost; they have excellent mellee stats, and (main advantage) can hide :hide: anywhere on the battlefield, not just in forest

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Originally Posted by Knight Templar

They are 12men unit exculsive to Muslim factions. Although expensive, I think they deserve its cost; they have excellent mellee stats, and (main advantage) can hide :hide: anywhere on the battlefield, not just in forest

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So they're just like bersekers in VI (except for the hiding part) . They also cost a lot (I think over 400) but are awesome in battle.

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Originally Posted by Ciaran

Well, I apologize, I was refering t the units I´ve used so far, and that are only the catholic ones, and I´m playing on the default (133 spears, 80 swords etc) unit size, so I can´t tell about other settings there, too.
About retraining, I think but do not know for sure, that the unit price is the sum of the per-man-prices, and retraining costs the sum of the men to be retrained times the man-price, so, a unit of spears reduced to one man costs almost the same to retrain as a new spear unit costs.

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Unless it's different for my version, the default is 100/60/40/20. I know because I've never changed the actual unit sizes.

On a related subject, if the kings unit loses men during a battle, it always gets replenished. I had one battle in which my King's unit was down to himself. After the battle, he was back up to full (I'm not sure if the game first takes men from other units before creating replenishing any loses, or if the King simply automatically replenishes without any loses to other units. There is no reason to retrain the king, and as one person mentioned, the King seems to automatically get any upgrades.

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Originally Posted by sbroadbent

Unless it's different for my version, the default is 100/60/40/20. I know because I've never changed the actual unit sizes.

On a related subject, if the kings unit loses men during a battle, it always gets replenished. I had one battle in which my King's unit was down to himself. After the battle, he was back up to full (I'm not sure if the game first takes men from other units before creating replenishing any loses, or if the King simply automatically replenishes without any loses to other units. There is no reason to retrain the king, and as one person mentioned, the King seems to automatically get any upgrades.

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Well the king gets replenished from other units of the same type, if they were in the battle with your king (e.g. the prince). I've seen this happen to other units after battle. Units automatically get transferred to the best general of that type if you haven't switched it off. And what was meant by retooling we agreed that the princes get the upgrades, not the kings.

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Originally Posted by miho

And what was meant by retooling we agreed that the princes get the upgrades, not the kings.

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The king gets the upgrade automatically, princes need to retrained to get the upgrade