Best stw Army for 10k ?

Now i have been Trying to find a few Good armys that i can utilize well in stw Mp, using 10k koku,

My fave at the moment is,

Nag cav gen H4 W0 A0
2 more Nag cav h4 W0 A0
2 yari cav h4 W0 A0
3 ND h5 W0 A0
4 Yari sam h5 W0 A0
and 4 Muskets. H 0 W0 A1

Not all 4 muskets can have A1 and sometimes I will have the muskets H 0 W 0 A 0
And use 300 or so remaining koku for other things, usualy end up wiith 15 - 34 koku

I also have My 7 koku army. Which I love deerly (but must now only use it some times as people relize what it is)

Thats
Nag cav gen h4 w0 a0
2 more nag cavs h4 w0 a0
2 yari cavs h4 w0 a0
3 nd h5 or 4 w0 a0
3 Yari sams H5 or 4 w0 a0
4 muskets H0 W0 A0
1 KENZAI H3 W1 A1 (depending on how i feel he may be H3 W0 A0)
This leaves 7 koku.

I can use Both armys to relitivly good efect Depending on the situation,
My 7 koku army ONLY works if the opponent does not see mr kenzai. "you would not beleve how often they miss him :)"

I also throw together a Strange army.
4 muskets h0 a0 w0
2 archers h0 w0 a0
3 CA h0 w0 a0
4 ND H6 W1 A1
4 Yari sams h6 W1 A1

Although i beleve it to Be a Great defending army,
It sux prety bad.

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So i was Wondering Which of my armys would be The 1 you chose if you must have 1 of them.

feel free to critizise my Choices.
Thats why ive started this thread.

And Also,
If it would not bother any 1,
What Army would You Most likley Make Yourself.. "not chose from the 1s i made,"
just what you would spend your koku on

Plz bear in mind,
10k koku Max 4 units of 1 type and No yari ashigaru,

I look forward to reading your critisisms "constructive hopefully" and prehaps View some of your Fave setups.
And it would be really nice to see some of the Veterans Pop in and leave an oppinion.

:bow:

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Originally Posted by Just A Girl

My fave at the moment is,

Nag cav gen H4 W0 A0
2 more Nag cav h4 W0 A0
2 yari cav h4 W0 A0
3 ND h5 W0 A0
4 Yari sam h5 W0 A0
and 4 Muskets. H 0 W0 A1

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I like this one... but I'd trade the A1 of the muskets for some honour points on them. At h2 I might prefer an armou upgrade but at h0 I first want to improve their morale ~;) Plus I'd use h3 on my non-gen cavs. With the koku that is saved then, I will improve my inf, like a h6 or a w1 upgrade for my nd.

Quote:

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Nag cav gen h4 w0 a0
2 more nag cavs h4 w0 a0
2 yari cavs h4 w0 a0
3 nd h5 or 4 w0 a0
3 Yari sams H5 or 4 w0 a0
4 muskets H0 W0 A0
1 KENZAI H3 W1 A1 (depending on how i feel he may be H3 W0 A0)
This leaves 7 koku.

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A good inspection of an army mostly makes you notice Mr. Kensai, especially because he moves out of formation all the time if don't look after him. But sometimes I don't find the time to check an army and the Kensai can be a pain. Again, I would prefer better inf over the h4 upgrade on your nc.

Quote:

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I also throw together a Strange army.
4 muskets h0 a0 w0
2 archers h0 w0 a0
3 CA h0 w0 a0
4 ND H6 W1 A1
4 Yari sams h6 W1 A1

Although i beleve it to Be a Great defending army,
It sux prety bad.

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I don't think it is that bad. THough I'd take 2 more sa instead of ca. (because I'm bad at handling them in mp ~D) I'd take at least two cavs too, so no the third ca would be traded for a heavy cav gen, and one of the nd for another cav.

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So i was Wondering Which of my armys would be The 1 you chose if you must have 1 of them.

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I'd choose the second... I like that one. And I use armies which look like that sometimes. I have one which looks like that which leaves 0 Koku, but I'm not sure if I remember it, here's a try:

2 Naginata cavalry - H3
2 Yari Cavalry - H3
1 Kensai (general) - H1
4 Musks - H0-H1 not sure.
3 ND - H5W1.
4 YS - H6.

i find anything less than h4 tend to runaway fast lol :)
As you know.

the muskets at H0 Do tend to run, But if i defend them properly then they will hold their ground,
and if they do not.
aslong as my inf are winning the mele They do often come back,
But then fatigue has a hold of them and next time they run There gone,

I have a really tough time in Giving ranged Infantry or ranged cav Any honour at all,
becous in my Eyes I should be able to keep them out of trouble,
And there for they should not need to much morrale, (not that they have much to begin with)
But i usualy keep my general a distance behind my muskets
So if i haft to send my yari sams in to the mele,
I can bring my gen behind the muskets which helps their morrale a little,
Unfortunatly,
Im usualy pre-occupied with the mele,
And by the time i decide to moove my general, the muskets are long gone :(

which as you know means, SEPPUKU!! for them after the battle, and Me yelling COME BACK YOU COWARDS! just before i am defeated :)


Im shure that Given enough practice i will be able to utilize my theory to good affect,

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Just A Girl

the muskets at H0 Do tend to run, But if i defend them properly then they will hold their ground,
and if they do not.
aslong as my inf are winning the mele They do often come back,
But then fatigue has a hold of them and next time they run There gone,

I have a really tough time in Giving ranged Infantry or ranged cav Any honour at all,
becous in my Eyes I should be able to keep them out of trouble,
And there for they should not need to much morrale, (not that they have much to begin with)
But i usualy keep my general a distance behind my muskets
So if i haft to send my yari sams in to the mele,
I can bring my gen behind the muskets which helps their morrale a little,
Unfortunatly,
Im usualy pre-occupied with the mele,
And by the time i decide to moove my general, the muskets are long gone

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My musks run away too soon at h0... the cowardish ashigaru!!~:angry: come back or commit seppuku you fools!~;) so I prefer h1 mostly.

Long time i played now but if i remember correctly i always had h2 on mu musks...the most impostant thing with musks is to shoot first, and if u dont and play against a skilled player u will loose musks fight, and with h0 u will loose badly.
And yaris should be h6 i think...yari cavs are good but expensive, u must use them very wisely or they get ripped...hope i can join u soon....count me in december 4 a few games--....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AggonyBetou

Long time i played now but if i remember correctly i always had h2 on mu musks...the most impostant thing with musks is to shoot first, and if u dont and play against a skilled player u will loose musks fight, and with h0 u will loose badly.
And yaris should be h6 i think...yari cavs are good but expensive, u must use them very wisely or they get ripped...

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Thanks for good info m8! lately I'm trying to find out some balanced armies with which I can work well, and the opinion of a vet helps~:)

Quote:

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hope i can join u soon....count me in december 4 a few games--....

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december.... hope Kats is with us by then too~:)

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There is no "best." Many dynamic factors should be considered when choosing an army, which are pretty obvious.

I hope that any exploits which would lend an unfair advantage are not described here. To do so would be like revealing a spoiler. I have heard from a little bird of one regarding muskets, and I do not use it--ever--even against players who play without the spirit of having fun, without respect, or without "honor." I use muskets like I imagine I would in battle, just as I use any other unit.

Some have alluded that a few of the armies I use exploit weaknesses in game design. Perhaps this is true, but I have not used them to consciously exploit the game or to slant battles unfairly in my favor. In experimenting with what works and what doesn't, I found armies that worked well. I learned after the fact why some considered such armies to be an exploitation. Where I agreed, I stopped using them; where I disagreed, I still use some. Other players didn't seem to have a problem with it. They developed counters that dealt with my armies. They used my own armies against me, and others. I lose as often as I win. I still have fun, and so do those I most often play with. As far as I'm concerned, this is the bottom line. If I felt that a player was using exploits, I would simply choose to play with others, and not play with that person.

This is offered as a perspective, not an argument. Peace.

AggonyBetou, my friend and teacher--it is good to see you here. I hope you are well ~:) :bow:.

Here are a couple of nice armyes, one used by players as Oskar, the other by some wolfe:
-Kensai gen h0;
-4 musks hon 2;
-2 arch cav hon 0;
-1 arch hon 0;
-2 nag cav h4;
-2 yari cav h4;
-4 ND hon 5.
cost:9989

-Nag gen cav h3;
-3 Nag cav h4;
-4 musks h2;
-2 arch cav h0;
-2 YS h6
-1 YS h6w1;
-3 ND h5w1.
cost:9989

Different styles, both flexible...but still with 11 units in common. This is making the 1.02 boring: armyes and tactics differences are few.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Puzz3D

It shouldn't be that way. There is a trick that allows you to always shoot first.

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Yeah...and to shoot without loading first and I think to decrease loading time...I always thought that last one was lame and didn't use it.

For armies the ones I was using last were:

10k 1.02

3 nag cav hon 4
4 muskets hon2
1 sa hon0
2 cav arch hon0
3 ys hon6w2
1 ys hon7w2
2 nd hon5

7k 1.03

all nag cav.

with 2 max:

2 monks h4
2 nd h2
2 ys h4
2 muskets hon0
2 sa hon0
2 nag cav hon2
2 yari cav hon2


all though I used lots of others.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Drisos

2 Naginata cavalry - H3
2 Yari Cavalry - H3
1 Kensai (general) - H1
4 Musks - H0-H1 not sure.
3 ND - H5W1.
4 YS - H6.

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I'm now sure what it was:

1 Kensai(General): H1A1
2 Nag Cav H3
2 Yari Cav H3
3 ND H5W1
4 YS H6
4 Musk H1

So far I liked this army when I used it... ~:) But anyone can use it if you wish... I take different ones all the time.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Puzz3D

All cav doesn't work in v1.03 if the enemy has 6 YS and a couple of NI along with other assorted units. All HC doesn't work either. All cav armies were tested during the development of v1.03.

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Chances of your opponent having 6 yari sam: Nill

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Puzz3D

Why not if you're regularly taking all cav? I'll field the 6 YS until you take something that can beat it. As I recall, my standard army in v103 had 5 YS.

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Well that won't do you much good unless your under alias will it? I never saw anyone with more than 4 ys. I could just as easily go for 8 monks 8 nag cav and your ys would be toast.

Usually I was deploying 8 nag cav, 2 HC, 2 YS cav... and 4 monks.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Puzz3D

Corner camping is frowned upon.

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And little tricks to make you shoot 1st, And All cav armys are not frowned upon?

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I really like the max 4 units rule.
Is there any reason as to why we couldnt play,

V1.03
7k koku
Max 4 units
yari Ashi's allowed

What would a set up like that do to make the game less enjoyable?

As ive already said, I like the max 4 of same unit rule,
Are their any real reasons why we could not continue with the max 4 rule using diferent stats?

And please dont say things like
"i wanted 8 kenza and 8 warrior monks so 4 of 1 unit type sux."

and 1 thing about corner camping is...
if your men get spooked they rout,
And seeing as your in a corner if your men do begin to rout,
you have probably lost them before the option to rally troops is available.

This buisness about "Red zoning" Sounds like what i would call a Glich exploit,
i do not agree with such practicess and will write in a clause in the tournament rules regarding it
"if it is still applicaple"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Just A Girl

Is there any reason as to why we couldnt play,

V1.03
7k koku
Max 4 units
yari Ashi's allowed

What would a set up like that do to make the game less enjoyable?

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Honestly I cannot pretend other person to have my same opinion about the 103.. but I would suggest you to play at least 20-40 games with that rules before starting a tournament. You could see with your own eyes if there are some limitation in the stat.

I've tryed a game with 2 kensai & musks max rule, 102. The first impressions is that Cav troops are getting really hard times with so many spears.. and the YS are still the best troops for the cost/value relation(I've target a single YS charging with 3 horse archers units....and I have not ben able to kill more than 10/12% of the enemy men ~:eek: ).

Ive always assumed the max 4 units rule applied for all units.
4 yari sams max, 4 muskets max, 4 nodaichi max exetera.

Was that not the case?

if not i dontunderstand why that rule was not implimented, It kind of forces you to chose Some sort of ballanced army.
Although you could chose 4 of each of the cavalry,

or if you prefered infantry yopu could have 4 nodaichi 4 yari samurai 4 of those naginata guys and 4 warrior monks,

and you can even have 4 muskets, 4 archers, 4 cav archers, and 4 arbusquiters. If you wanted a ranged army.
but your most likley to use a balanced army.

I do enjoy games where only 4 of any given unit type is allowed even in v1.02.
(i did like v1.01 more though)

Also i was hopeing some players could share some of their preivious expiriences about v1.03 and any disatvantages it may have playing with v1.02 rules.

but i think Thats a difrent topic somewhere or something.

P.s
does nodachi mean no clothes?

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Well those yari ashigaru's kick ass.
All cav vs all yari ashi at 7k or 10k, And you know ashis will win,

Its probably true for all units vs yari ashigaru.
"obvious exception would be muskets"
16 kenzai would probably put up a good fight. and may scare the pesants away But i doubt it,
And id imagine that Warior monks May be able to scare them off the feild, But in my tests vs ai. 1 unit 60 men YA vs 1 unit 60 WM spending same amount (near enough) on both units.
And its the warrior monks who run away Usualy before you get to them,
And if the AI controlled WM dont Run away, They get thrashed.

So id imagine even if people had Implimented a no musket rule in the begining,
the yari ashi's would still have needed to be looked at,
"The guys are just to cheap."
koku for koku they are IMHO the most devistating unit in the game, "damn pesants"

Cav archers may be able to kill a small % of the YA but eventualy they will run out of arrows
"and thats going to be before the YA run out of men"

So i dont imagine for a second that YA would have been accepted by every 1 for very long any way,

P.s

i wasnt implying that any of the army's i posted which were all cav, all inf, or all ranged.were any good,
I was just trying to demonstrate that you could still get an all cav/all inf/all ranged army or a balanced army with a 4 max of any unit type rule,

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Puzz3D

... I know from experience that you can't stop all cav with only 4 spears.

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What about with 4 ysams, 4 Nag cav, 4 Heavy Cav, and 4 Yari cav?

(I don't have access to the game right now so i can't give honor/wep possibilities, or calculate costs ...)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Puzz3D

The point I was making is that you are helping the all cav army with a 4 max rule because 3 of the 4 infantry types are not anti-cav units. I know from experience that you can't stop all cav with only 4 spears.

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So to make 4 max of any unit type Fair for the all inf army, You need the YA.
Perosnaly i like the YA less than the muskets.
atleast i know the muskets will runaway if i do things right, "low morrale"
Having said that, I also know that i use h0 muskets,
and as i practice I am geting better at defending them properly,
Now i can usualy "60% of the time" get them to stay still when their under attack,
they will still go to Unshure and the little rout flag will begin to flash in their picture,
But most of the time i only need to have my general come stand close to their new position, and they will stand ground again and start shooting.
but really im not all that good at the game,

So i guess a real veterain player could keep their muskets With h2 for the duration of the game almost 90% of the time,

personaly im willing to sacrifice my yari cav and nag cav
Just to distrupt the opponents front line,
Then hopefully as they are retaliating, my muskets get a few good kills in,
Just before all hell breaks loose.

lol.
Now i fancy a game :)

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Interesting. Yes, I remember Buzen: defender plateau on the back edge of the map. As the attacker looks at it, the plateau extends to the map edge on the right, and just left of center on the left, with a patch of trees on that end. Behind the trees is a rise just before the back edge. That was one map my 47 buddies and I played on often back in the day. It is difficult to win attacking against skilled defenders, but it can be done. We usually used it when we had two experienced players and two intermediate players, and gave the intermediate players the plateau.

Very tight coordination on the part of a 2v2 attacking is essential--if you get stuck for long in the valley, the defending ranged units will shoot you to pieces. We would usually move to center together, delaying giving away which side we were going to hit as long as possible (until we were just out of range of the enemy ranged units), and then rapidly flank to the attacker right. It was crucial to get up on the rise fast. Going the other way worked too, but the rise is steeper on the attacker left, and the trees can be problematic. Going that way, if you can draw out the ranged units, drive them back (or hit them if you're lucky with cav), and get your attacking shock troops into the trees, then you have a fighting chance as long as you stay together and keep your army tight. If you try to take a shootout approach when attacking Buzen, you almost always lose.

For that map I took less ranged, more shock (at least 4 Nods) and YS (maybe NI if using 1.03), and a few cav (NC and HC). CA get shot up on that one when attacking, and NI are too slow, fatigue, and usually run before earning their cost in 1.02. I remember mixing in a Kensai or ninja unit now and then, and if they made it into the trees they really went to town. The defenders sometimes hid them in the tress too, which could be a real problem for the attackers.

That map would be very difficult to win attacking in a 1v1, I would think.

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Too much text 4 me, get headCHE;)
Good to see all of u! puzz, toga, and more, (pao,;),)
interesting info, hope to play again!
Toga, I hope u are well too my friend, and maybe u can teach me back sometime if u r still able to play!? Was a year ago 4 me...

Unfortunately Toga will not be able to play for a while... but I can help you a bit if you're really so rusty I can help you. (I'm not as good as Toga ~;))

~:cheers:

Drisos, when do u have much time again to play a lot, I hope we can play some more nice games. ~;)

I hope so too... but for this week things don't look good... :embarassed: