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found some pics in book of body armour used in ww1,and then another of a shield type device used in trench warfare of ww1,and then one of a german with 8 stick grenades tied together to take out fortifications.any other instanes of strange devices in war?
:knight: :hide:
I've heard some Gaulic troops carried rope to strangle enemies because of their advantage with power.
Maybe just a rumor...
The German 'visionslit bomb'. A circular flat bomb used to shove through the visionslits of tanks. Effective enough if used, but it was fairly limited since you had to get on top of the tank.
Japanese baloonbombs. Odd weapon supposedly meant to set the great American forests alight...
The Chinese would sometimes strap a barrel of gunpowder to the rear of an oxen, set the thing on fire, and drive the terrified creature out of the fortress hopefully to detonate among besiegers and their siege engines.
They also shot some pretty weird stuff from their trebuchets; molten iron or poison bombs with such highly descriptive names as "human excretement bomb"...
Winches, pulleys and cranes were often used wherever the know-how was available both by and against medieval and ancient fortifications - to lift soldiers to the battlements, for example, or conversely grab rams and similar siege engines and hoist them up, rendering them useless.
Sometime in the 1500s or so the English tried to give pikemen some firepower by tying a longbow to the pike-shaft. As one writing on combination weapons has it, "in the history of combination weapon the sword-cane represents sanity and the pike-longbow raving psychosis." ~D
Needless to say, the experiment was unsuccesful and quickly abandoned.
Story I've heard more than once, but can't guarentee accuracy of, is that in early days of the eastern front the Russians trained dogs to run under tanks by hiding food there. They then attached bombs to the dogs, triggered by a pole that would be knocked down by the tank chassis. Unfortunately as they trained them using Russian tanks, and the dogs weren't too smart... the plan was soon discontinued.
I think you would have to try pretty hard to beat the Panjandrum:http://johnfowles.org.uk/nevilshute/thesecretwar/
A sort of giant rocket powered cotton bobbin thing.
True enough... There are plenty of pictures of such dogs and enough accounts from German troops to verify it (they despised the practice a whole lot seeing dogs as noble animals). They were not too effective as the dogs were easily killed by machineguns (they had to be fairly big dogs and they aren't too nimble or hard to detect), and they would run towards any vehicle with tracks, friend or foe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flavius Clemens
They were trained by being starved then having food placed under tracked tractors. Before use the dogs were starved for a few days (making them even worse as they were not deployable right away) to make them properly inclined to run through a noisy and scary battlefield.
The German troops developed some odd jokes regarding that. "Remember that exploding dogs are a purely Russian phenomenom. When you are on leave back home, do not shoot every dog you see just to make sure. The people around you will not be happy."
They don't come any weirder than Davy Crockett
One sentence... "Portable nuclear device."Quote:
Originally Posted by hoom
While strange I don't find it THAT strange. But it sure belongs here.
The Japanese I-400 submarine would likely fit here too. Big, heavy, slow and armed like a Corvette on the surface, it was a submarine/carrier, with six planes in storage and a catapult on the bow.
That reminds me of two other strange systems:
Before WW2 the Soviets had a big bomber (I think it was the biggest then, cannot remember its name). The problem with the strategic bombers was that the escort fighters could not protect them, because they were only short range. Russian engineers solved this problem this way. The bomber carries some fighter and releases them in case of attack.
Another strange weapon is the manned torpedo. It was developed by the German navy close to the end of WW2 to operate in the Channel or near coast. It was one torpedo for the crew (1-2men) and another torpedo attached.
Most of the manned torpedoes failed because the crew fell asleap.
I believe the US did something similar with an airship and several biplane fighters attached - very Jules Verne. The germans had a system of a Me 109 on top of a Ju88 - the bomber was unmanned and packed with explosives - it was called a Mistel. The combo flew to near the target, the remote controlled Ju 88 was then detached and flown to the target - sounds great, but wasn't a sucess. - Have a look here for all permutations of Mistels - http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/V...tel/mistel.htmQuote:
Originally Posted by Franconicus
There are loads of weird and wonderful german planes on http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/index.html - I recomend a look - there is even a jet powered flying wing, which looks like something from Indiana Jones!!~:cheers:
I think the Italians were using something similar (a mini-sub) at the start of the war. Not a devastating succes, but IIRC they did do some damage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Franconicus
The carrier-bomber sounds like a good idea, but how is the fighter supposed to get back?
They weren't! ~;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Ludens
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franconicus
Oh that. The program was recent revived in the form of American bombers releasing UAVs that hovered over an area scanning for targets and engaging them.
One of those really big American strategic bombers buzzing around in the fifties or so (don't recall the name, but it apparently has the distinction of being about the largest class of bomber the US ever deployed) also tried that fighter-carrying schtick. I think the fighter was called "Goblin" or something like that.
Somewhat related, but not all that weird as such, would be those twin-hull Mustangs. A bunch were given specially trained crews should the Cold War go hot and it become necessary to send strategic bombers deep into the USSR; these things were supposed to fly escort, and nobody had much illusions theirs would almost certainly be even more of an one-way trip than the bombers'...
Hey all;
I have one, Archimedes' burning mirror. That dude was a genius.
Funny thing how he may have (single handedly) held back the
Romans only to be undone by a Gladius.
http://www.crystalinks.com/archimedes.html
Halfway down the page...
I think the Italians were using something similar (a mini-sub) at the start of the war. Not a devastating succes, but IIRC they did do some damage.
Some damage being with a combination of mini-subs and scuba divers they left several British Battleships sitting on the harbour bottom till they could be repaired/refloated .
One of those really big American strategic bombers buzzing around in the fifties or so (don't recall the name, but it apparently has the distinction of being about the largest class of bomber the US ever deployed) also tried that fighter-carrying schtick. I think the fighter was called "Goblin" or something like that.
Some B-36 were eqipped with parasite fighters F-85 Goblin but they were abandoned after tests , however RF-84Thundersflash (recon version of the Thunderstreak) were used as the B-36 extended the range and the trapeze gear allowed for recovery as well as launch of the aircraft
I believe the US did something similar with an airship and several biplane fighters attached
As did the British , Italians and Germans dating back to WWI .
The Japanese had a plane in the works, though I'm not sure it was ever produced, that was capable of running under water. I believe it was supposed to get close under water and then fly up to make an air attack, I could be wrong though.
If memory serves the USSR used mice to chew into the wires of German tanks during WWII, German responded by training cat battalions.
A dam-busting "bouncing bomb" was used by the British in WWII on certain German dams. It was not used much.
http://www.chm.bris.ac.uk/webproject...ing%20Bomb.htm
Didn't someone, us perhaps, try to make a floating airfield on an ice berg?
As an aside to the dog bombers, don't forget the dolphins and seals, the Germans also developed a gun that could fire round corners, having a curved barrel, designed to stop people hiding in a tanks blind spot next to the tracks.
Weren't they trapped by those Soviet dog batallions? Man, that was a real dog fight!~DQuote:
Originally Posted by JimBob
Didn't someone, us perhaps, try to make a floating airfield on an ice berg?
Ice and saw-dust .
I know the Brits sometime in the Fifties or so tried to build a submersible warship. Weird looking thing (imagine a cross between a destroyer and a late-war sub); presumably unworkable, given that the project was buried.
Wasn't that the Germans' "the dog ate my homework"- grade excuse after Kursk ?Quote:
If memory serves the USSR used mice to chew into the wires of German tanks during WWII,...
Not in the fifities but in the first world war, you may be thinking of the K class steam powered fleet submarines, widowmakers if ever there were:Quote:
I know the Brits sometime in the Fifties or so tried to build a submersible warship. Weird looking thing (imagine a cross between a destroyer and a late-war sub); presumably unworkable, given that the project was buried
http://www.submariners.co.uk/Boats/Barrowbuilt/K_Class/
Or ossibly the M class, which were bult on K class hulls http://www.battleships-cruisers.co.uk/m_class.htm and mounted a battleship gun in a barbette or, the X1, built in 1926 with two 5.2" guns in a turret.
The french Surcouf (inter war) also mounted a pair of cruiser caliber guns in a rotating turret.
the belly bow, early roman bow, very large looked like a cross bow, drawn while braced against stomech and fired.
I can't quite recall it's name (Gastra-something), but it was a Greek weapon out of the workshops of Dionysios of Syracuse. IIRC it was a primitive crossbow (the real crosbow was invented around that time in China). I don't know if it was very effective.Quote:
Originally Posted by master of the puppets
That was actually the Brits and Commonwealth... An unsinkable carrier, that would have been rather nice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ja'chyra
The bellybow was a Greek weapon, and 'just' a primitive crossbow.
Well, back in the day, the first heliopoleis (siege towers) were pretty damn strange weaponry! ~D
But, with hindsight: the exaggerated form of the Turkish kiliç (now commonly known, and shown -- read: in Hollywood -- as the scimitar) and the bigger two-handed weaponry from India are pretty strange weapons.
And, oh, the staff mace from China. And those dual swords with hooks at the ends with which you could disarm your opponnent (both showcased in Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon).
the kapesh was an odd looking weapon but turned out to be an extremely effective weapon against both chariots and armored infantry.
Some african throwing weapons look very weird to the modern eye. Kind of like antlers... I'll try to find a link.
I have heard about an African sicklesword, much like the one the Druids in RTW uses.
It was used in conjunction with a large hideshield, and its principal purpose was to get behind the raised shield and cut at the forearm of the opponent. And it should be rather good at that.
Looks strange, but seems to be a good counter to shields.
Air:
My vote goes for the F9 Sparrowhawk/Dirigible team -- whacky idea that almost worked.
Sea:
My vote goes to the Surcouf, a french sub that mounted 2 203mm guns in a massive turret.
Land:
Many contenders, but I do have to go for the incendiary pig. The whole Idea of using a pig in such a fashion is simply starkers.
BTW, have any of you ever sent a full stack of those into custom battle, I've always wanted to try it but......
There's a great story about a K-class captain saying 'My end's diving Number One, what the hell's your end doing during test submersion. Truly terrible submarines.Quote:
Originally Posted by English assassin
I'd like to mention the Pykrete carriers that we considered building towards the end of WWII, as well as the V3-a gigantic gun constructed in France by the Nazis, powered by a series of detonations along its length. If it had ever been fired, it would have burst.
I remember reading about a key-cum-pistol that nineteenth century jailers used to use. That's pretty weird too.
I'd like to mention the Pykrete carriers
Posts #22 & #24 ~;)
I've written some threads in other military forums about all kinds of odd WW2 stuff but unfortunately they have been lost. A brief recap from what I can remember off the top of my head:
The Germans produced a device to allow some weapons shoot around corners. It was pretty much a curved tube that attached to the end of some rifles that would angle the bullet around in an arc. Not many were made and they were mainly used to allow tank commanders to hit enemies who were hiding alongside the tank. They came in various degrees of curvature which I believe included 15o, 30o, 45o and 60o. They wore out very quickly due to stress on the barrel. Pictures and more info: http://collections.iwm.org.uk/server/show/ConWebDoc.988
German mousewheel style recon tank. A single person tank that was essentially a giant armored ball with a slit to allow the driver to see. It was designed to move over almost any terrain with ease.
German mine roller tank that essentially a PkII raised above the ground on ridiculously thick treads. It rolled through minefields and exploded mines beneth its treads, which were so massive as to be unaffected by the devices. See far bottom left picture on this page: http://www.tankmuseum.ru/p6.html
American Skeleton tank - Unusual idea explored after WWI. The idea was to make a tank that was mostly empty air so that enemy fire would go through it without hitting anything. I don't need to explain why this project never got very far.
http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/U...eletonTank.jpg
The New Zealand Bob Semple Tank - The worst tank every built. Rather than explain why, just read the first entry on this page: http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/n...ewzealand.html
The French FCM F1. Ridiculously large tank that would have outclassed even the German Tiger with a 120mm main gun... yet it was designed in 1940 and only failed to be built due to the German invasion.
http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/france/Fra-FCMF1.jpg
Multiturret tanks - Many examples, but some got a bit extreme in the interwar years. I believe the Soviet T35 had something like 5-7 independently moving turrets and the Germans had a 5 turreted tank as well.
Rheintochter R I - Yep, a SAM missile made by the Germans in WW2.
http://luddite.net/dori/albums/airspace/IMG_0101.jpg
That's only a small part of the stuff I posted, but that's all I can remember off the top of my head.
Whilst not magically turning it into a battlefield master, a bit of history from the NZ viewpoint in 1940 will explain the reason for this beast:Quote:
The New Zealand Bob Semple Tank - The worst tank every built. Rather than explain why, just read the first entry on this page:
Due to the nature of the dateline, NZ declared war before the Mother Country on 3 September 1939.
We had the bulk of our 2 NZ expeditionary force (1 NZEF was to WWI) in Egypt by late Feb 1940.
NZ is almost exactly on the other side of the planet from the UK.
Colonial defence was concentrated on places like Singapore & India.
In 1940 our navy was busy doing stuff like helping sink the Graf Spee.
Japan was expanding southward fast.
Several ships were sunk in NZ coastal waters by German mines & commerce raiders that year.
NZ was (& remains) a largely agricultural country with very limited industrial capacity.
The US didn't join the war till nearly 2 years later.
In that context you can understand how a few tractors with some armour & machine guns sounded like a pretty good idea.
http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/maus/
The german maus, a very large super heavy tank, never saw action though.
*Slaps forehead* DOH!!! It was so obvious... Yet we all seemed to forget it. We couldn't see the tree for the forest.Quote:
Originally Posted by faisal
According to the radio documentary about corrugated iron which I just heard, that is actually corrugated iron that is armouring the Bob Semple...
Landkreuzer P-1000 "Ratte", which didn´t even make it to prototype status, though I´d like to have seen one.~D
Saw something on the History Channel recently about the US trying to produce flying saucer technology back in the cold war era. After several failed prototypes they got craft to hover low over the ground, though grass and sand caused problems (getting into the air intakes). They also had problems with stability and control as they tried to get it higher and were thinking it would need to be spinning to work. Then funding was cut before it got any further.
Ajax
Rock & Roll was a weird weapon of the Cold War :thrasher:
Elk cavalry. No, seriously. Carolus XI of Sweden (reigned in late 1700s, and generally considered the most competent ruler of the dynasty as both his dad and son were bit of war maniacs) seriously liked the animals, and had a lot of them roaming around the vast woodlands of his kingdom (Swedish rulers long found them useful royal gifts to the rulers of less arboreal lands). He eventually hatched the idea of using the big, fast critters as cavalry mounts and, being the king, went and set up a test unit. Neither the animals nor the soldiers proved very cooperative (and the somewhat hunchbacked physique of the elks didn't help at all); after several incidents of broken bones and zero progress the project was quietly dropped.