An interesting development

Link

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Shogun

We have been made aware of racist abuse and other offensive topics in the chat areas of the lobbies for Total War and Total War:Barbarian Invasion online play. Since the lobbies are community areas to support the enjoyment of the games, we regard such comments as unacceptable and restricting other users from enjoying the services.

Since it is techically not possible to ban the offending users from the lobbies, we regret that we will be turning off the chat facility in the lobbies to ensure that this forum is not used further for indecent topics and users do not become offended by such behaviour. Please note that this board for arranging online battles will remain active at this stage.

We apologise for the inconvenience caused by this action but we hope that you will appreciate that our aim is to provide an enjoyable gaming environment for everyone.

---

I'd like to thank all the [This word has been edited out by Rob The Bastard as he deemed the word used to be profanity... a PM was sent to Grey_Fox asking that the word be removed but there was no response in the time frame allowed... I tell you there is nothing but work!, work!, work! around here. I return you to the regularly scheduled harangue]so online that made this possible, they have apparently achieved their aims of ruining TW online.

I'd also like to say that this would have been avoidable if CA had created a ban/ignore function that actually worked permanently, instead of breaking after either logging off or coming out from a game. This action is like burning down a house to kill one or two fleas.

CA's own incompetence finally led to thier downfall, MP TW has officially been destroyed

Good job shogun, you just buried RTW MP for me...

If thats all CA is capable of... their incompetence is legendary.

1.)1.3 memory leak and lag in mp
2.) worthless AI
3.) shutting down lobby chat...
4.) patch 1.3 = downgrade of 1.2
5.) bad mp features
6.) bad PR


What next?

"Originally Posted by The Shogun

Because we the CA staff are bad progammers therefore we can't make MP RTW a smooth game, produce good AI, stop racist remarks in multipayer, excel at lagging there for we have to "convince" SEGA to buy us over.

We apologise for the inconvenience caused by these action to convenience our incompetence. But we hope that you will appreciate that our aim (though we don't really care) is to provide an "enjoyable" working environment for everyone in CA. Sorry for all those gamers who had bought our crap."



I would like to see them post that for once...

This is stupid! How are people now supposed to give passwords to each other?

I know now that I won't buy the next TW unless CA seriously improves his act.

long live Ensemble Studios & Blizzard Entertainment.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Duke John

This is stupid! How are people now supposed to give passwords to each other?

---

That is just the 'tip of the iceberg'. So now we can no longer set up a game where we agree...which map...we attack or defend...who is playing with who...which players are going to be in which team...who shall we invite etc etc.
This attitude by CA is nothing short of rubbish.

Had they not ruined the lobby by going 'backwards' and undoing all the work that was put in to make it 'workable' a lot of these problems could have been sorted by the players. (the ban/ignore option worked before, why was it changed?)

I can only hope that they see the foolishness in their decision and reinstate the chat lobby.

What happened to their option to withdraw/invalidate the CD Key, which would have made it impossible for the troublemakers to log on to the Lobby?
Chatmonitor was there to witness who they are?

If nothing is done this will be goodbye to MP Total War. It will be impossible to play the game this way. Or are CA only concerned with the marketing and sales of their product?

Jochi

Communication is possible with private message option and in hosted game. I'm wondering if this would be now disabled as well.


To CA:

You have heard a lot of suggestions, what to improve, what to add in upcoming TW - befor RTW was out.

People have paid for your product and now you are disabeling one option of it, becaus you have not listened to almost none of the suggestions when you have been developing RTW which might be a solution for this situation.

You have obligations toward customers who 'support' your products, to ensure them best possible quality for the product you are offering on the market.

Your actions are unresponsible.

As far I know as well, those who write such things in lobbies as they do, can be BANNED.

Why to 'punish' all MP players becaus of few?

Quote:

---

Ensemble Studios & Blizzard Entertainment

---

You should check their community forums.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Loinnreach

You should check their community forums.

---

http://www.blizzard.com/patches/

Hellenes

Coming for a regualr MP player this is absolutly stupid. Although PM is still possible the whole idea of banning chat is absolutly stupid. They it is not possible for them to band single players, I say why not?
I will continue to play Mp as I love total war but to CA I have something to say. Not only has the GameSpy server been even more of a pain in the back side in recent weeks but this has really given me a good booting up it. If CA are trying to not only destroy the MP cominity but also lose customers then there going the right way about it.
Congratualtions on another job well done GameSpy/CA! ~:cheers:

HI guys

So as most of you know the lobbies chat (for online gaming) is disabled, in-game chat is still enabled , the idea is battles are arranged on the forums, so you know who you're playing with. You then go to the lobbies to hook up and play. In-game chat is pretty much a necessity in the multiplyer games (especially larger battles). Therefore anyone in the lobbies will not be exposed to anything unpleasant. As forum identity is recorded any misbehaviour there can be properly reported and dealt with. We have taken this action due to racist and abusive behaviour in lobbies. Please bear in mind that the game has a 12 rating.

As for a better solution than just turning chat off, we are looking in to this now. It is counter productive to start flaming the boards and slating the developers. A small minority have made this action necessary. Racist behaviour is unacceptable on these boards and our lobbies and I ask that the community show a united front on this. We are working to improve this situation and will keep you informed of our progress. This a temporary measure only we are not trying to kill off online play, we are tying to save it.

Thank you.

*shakes head in disgust*, its a joke now, crappy gamespy connection and no chat in the lobbies. My love for barbarian invasion will sffer greatley because of this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Shogun

the idea is battles are arranged on the forums, so you know who you're playing with..

---

Do you play your own products? Have none of the post above said anything that your team do not understand.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Shogun

It is counter productive to start flaming the boards and slating the developers...

---

No, shutting down the lobby chat before finding a solution is.

By the way three clans that I used to play with have stopped playing RTW because of your multiplayer problems (People spend HOURS trying to arrange "a" proper game).

The lobby use to have more players, BI didn't improve on that, try figure that out.

Give us results not suicidal decisions, then the community will stand with you.

Aqualurker I understand your frustration, this is a very poor solution. We have had some direct complaints of a very serious nature and we need to take this action to ensure this does not continue to happen. As I said this is only a short term solution and we are working to resolve the situation as quickly as possible.

Its good to hear CA is working on a solution, so lets all hope it will get sorted out quickly.


CBR

This could boost Samurai Wars for MTW/VI .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Shogun

HI guys
the idea is battles are arranged on the forums, so you know who you're playing with. You then go to the lobbies to hook up and play.

---

.
This is not the case. Other than for Tournaments. You obviously have no idea how the online game is played. How on earth can people meet on the forum to arrange games.
Other than for specialised Clan games the majority of players play at random against/with people they meet in the Lobbies. Even clan members have to meet up before they can play.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Shogun

This a temporary measure only we are not trying to kill off online play, we are tying to save it.

---

As a temporary measure or otherwise, this is certainly the right way to go about killing off the online play.
If we cannot arrange games in the Lobby what is the point of logging on?
and if we dont log on the MP is finished.

The PM chat option is still available? Have you tried chat with half a dozen people with this option?
In the previous Total War games it was possible to select a number of players and discuss whatever with all of them at the same time. Not with RTW or BI you dont. You can only direct your chat to ONE person at a time. Try typing the same message out to 6 or more people and changing the ...select so and so...each time.

Jochi

Quote:

---

We have had some direct complaints of a very serious nature and we need to take this action to ensure this does not continue to happen. As I said this is only a short term solution and we are working to resolve the situation as quickly as possible.

---

Ok. I 'hold' you for your word.

Quote:

---

You can only direct your chat to ONE person at a time. Try typing the same message out to 6 or more people and changing the ...select so and so...each time.

---

In the matter of fact you can contact as many people at the time with PM option as you like Jochi...select all you wish to contact with ''second arrow'' and when all selected, press ''first arrow''.('arrows' - for outgoing and incoming messaging)

GAH!

Vanya find this amusing. Vanya have no head, and therefore no eyes or ears. So, Vanya not worried by this development.

Its simple: hosters put up games without passwords and play on "faith".

Joiners join and play and do their best to be "honorable".

With luck, the games will be enjoyable.

Vanya never bothers to check out who's hosting or what-not. (Of course, that is because Vanya finds it difficult to play online... so few games to choose from... and nobody joins if ye host...).

Vanya remembers when in a two hour period, He could play 10 full games in olde Shoggy. That number drastically dwindled to 2-3 games with MTW. But with RTW, that number is 0-1... for TWO HOURS!

Vanya never sets up games beforehand... He just randomly joins existing games without regard for the hoster or the rules (Vanya follows any rules laid out, of course, if He is made aware of them a priori.) It is the randomness that makes it fun. Pre-arranged games via a forum is... well... "not good" and kills the mood.

Fellas... Read between the lines. This happenned because CA got paid a visit by a lawyer or by a Guido-wannabe... or both. Some repressed choir singer with a holier-than-thou attitude (they probably don't take their kids to doctors when they get sick expecting the heavens to part so God can heal them of their ailments) probably overheard their spoiled little thorn of Satan joke about how he said blah blah blah to some yada yada yada. As a result, we've been expelled from the "garden of eden" of GameSpy. ~:mecry:

Ahh... Vanya gets teary-eyed with nostalgia when he remembers the good ole days... when the worst ye could find in the game chats was Llama Insane doing his thing...

GAH!

Shogun said as much as he could. Indeed I'm sure there were some impending lawsuits by some people that can't seem to ignore things, thus have to ruin it for everyone. Like the parents that try to get things banned just so their kids can't have them, instead of being "parents".

But yes, the thing that gets me is, there are definite ways to improve the lobby. They have been laid out in the past, and asked for already. So why did it take this long for it to be worked on?

now i wish the old PW'd rooms of STW would come back...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alrowan

now i wish the old PW'd rooms of STW would come back...

---

Ditto!

That’s where many Clans were born ~:cheers:

Only this time with the ability to keep an eye on the main foyer, and PM invites to join private chats (my two cents ~;p ).

Vanya says it as it is. Well spoken.

Jochi

If game developers Made there own Servers like they used to ,
instead of depending On Game Spy,
(Also remember Dont shut them down when youve made enough money from the game"STW")

This problem could be easily fixed by asigning a mod to the foyer.

Guess its Cheaper to force people to use the inadequate game spy,

But with ca being Thrown about like a hot potato form EA to activision, and now i think to sega,
I supose its best to have a neutrall game server to host mp games on,
Having said that, Ive also seen game spy shuting down game servers as well.

So why dont you Just make a Server for RTW only instead of all this cost saving game spy stuff.
Its not helping you guys.

Hi guys

Right first off I would like to apologise again for the situaion in the lobbies. I know that some of you feel we have used a Sledgehammer to crack a nut. No amount of petitions or letters of outrage will speed this up I'm afraid. Now, as I have said, we are working to get this sorted as quickly as possible. However, I am having to spend a lot of time online at the moment just trying to smooth things over on the boards and this is proving a drain on resources which could be better spent trying to fix the issues at hand. Due to the way things are currently implemented it's not just a matter of one super quick fix, if it was we would of taken this option already. So we don't need any more suggestions on how to fix the problem. The less time I have to spend running around all the forums making posts like this the more time I can spend chasing the people that can help sort this out. So please guys give us some time to fix this.

Ok. What say we back off for 5 and see what transpires?
Give them time to sort it out.

Jochi

Already said all i had to say on the matter,
Its up to ca to decide what to do.
So i guess we Must Give them there space and time,
hopefully they will come up with a fix that will be acceptable to all.

Over a year after the game's release, Creative Assembly finally acknowledges that the design of the RTW/BI multiplayer foyer is inadequate. It seems counterintuitive to go after the 12 year old market and design a foyer that is wide open to abuse. That's going to drive away the serious players, and that's what has happened.

By shogun

Quote:

---

I ask that the community show a united front

---

We have always had a front against them but now we have another front and its against you.

Shogun you have been decent about this but infact the whole thing is not excusable by you guys finally talking about something.

Im sure the comunity will forgive you if you start taking our opinions alot more.
If you don't it proves you don't really care about mp.

Seems to me a simple solution:

Install a code on the chat lobby that blanks out or puts in random characters such as %&$&$ in place of an offensive word.

or

barring that, install an option so people can turn on a profanity filter. MANY games use this. And while Blizzard Inc. pisses me off no end in other ways, the way their lobbies and Bnet are setup would be a good example.

Having killed off chat lobby communitcation, our show matches that we broadcast over our radio network are now dead since we can't hear the responses of the players/observers. Then again, trying to get anyone to play the game anymore has pretty much made the venture pointless, hence the fact none of our casters (myself included) has had any interest in doing more audio replays due to the frustration and time sink just getting a game going is.

I don't know how many people setup matches on your forum boards, but except for show matches almost every game Ive ever played in was pick ups, with people needing to advertise an opening/rules for their game to fill it up.

Finally, I take personal offense to the insinuation that WE as a community have NOT already put up a united front. You think we condone this kind of behavior? Our problem isn't that your dealing with the issue, its that its taken you THIS long to deal with it, its something that should have been addressed before the games release by your development team (as so many other games have done) and rather then taking the suggestions of your community who play this game all the damned time, you instead shut the whole operation down. So tell me Shogun, if you were the consumer and this had happened to you, on top of an already ungodly interface and horrific hosting by Gamespy, how would YOU react? I challenge you to try and play a night of ONLINE Rome: Total War, either version, then come here and tell us you've done a marvelous job.

This isn't the kiddie Battle.net crowd you're dealing with. Those kind of people don't play this game. You're dealing with older gamers who are more serious about the hobby then enjoy. Having said that: I bought RTW on the success and fun of Shogun and Medeival. You lost my business BECAUSE of RTW, and the support of my gaming community.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Emperor[1G]

This isn't the kiddie Battle.net crowd you're dealing with. Those kind of people don't play this game. You're dealing with older gamers who are more serious about the hobby then enjoy.

---

Actually the game is marketed at 12 year olds up, so CA is essentially dealing with a large number of children. It was STW and MTW that had the older fanbase. Sad but true.

Marketed at 12 year olds up now there could be a reason.

They take a fantastic game/military simulation like Medieval total war then dumb down the realism to create a game RTW appealable to children did you not hear the expression, boys will be boy's, YES kids will behave like kids when in the lobbies you make a game for kids then Gawp at childish behaviour in the lobbies~:joker:

The Sparkling! units in BI and Beserker animations are downright condesending, whats next -lightning bolts? the inhuman abilities given to the urban cohorts for example makes one scratch one's head and say well that aint right. Its like the main priority was on the single player campaign and the romans where souped up to increase enjoyment, after all they where not noted for their cavalry yet have the best cav in the game. Its all wrong and feels as such after all how many people have downloaded RTR. In a game like this if doesnt feel real it doesent feel right.

The Bugs have been there for age's not just a while (When was RTW released?) i.e. unit control and units simply not obeying your commands as given or doing an order contrary to that issued this turns joy into bemusment and frustration.

If i am checking the lobbies community then i dont have time to fix the problems you imply ~:confused: sorry lad im an adult so that just doesent wash for a myriad of different reasons.

You create a game for kids and up, But kids generally dont buy tactical/strategy games those that do, behave as expected. The main purchaser for this game i would guess would be the gamer looking for an plausible and intelligent experience, history/discovery channel fans' that prefer RTW even over the flash and dazzle of the half lifes and such, yet im not sure you have grasped this.

There is a great many things right with RTW dont get me wrong. Just what was so wrong with shogun and medieval that you felt it the need for change? did it not sell enough copies?

Whoever is the one pushing the legal actions or causing the trouble, has obviously not played online much. Any game no matter what age it's marketed towards has all kinds of people playing. Everyone knows you have to put up with topics you dislike, or names that are offensive... you know what I mean.

In other words it a big world out there and you have to learn to have thick skin.

I have always wanted the ability to host my own TW servers. I can police them the way I want, and if you don't like it go to another server. ie: CS

CA, give us the "internet.cfg" file back, and tell the person(troublemaker) you now offer private servers and a public one(gamespy). If the person offended by racist remarks wants to play in a sterile environment he can host his own server and play with his friends.

Cromwell

Maybe the quality of play will rise in RTW/BI if the chat is left disabled because the people who go there to offend will no longer have a reason to be there.

glad you guys agree with me.
shogun no msger should be shot but i am not buying your games again (CA) and my high feelings for sega have my damaged heavily for the simple reason that you are not worthy of my trust.

i did not trust you guys to leave the lobby up because i expected it and this is a stab in the back.Don't expect money from me or anyone i can preach the word to.
thanks for at least posting shogs.

edit** puzz thats a stupid comment as new ones come all the time and we would have to leave chat off all the time and if that happened no one would be recruited and clans would decline and eventually turn to nothing.

Makes me glad I don't play RTW online -

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dreadedmob

puzz thats a stupid comment as new ones come all the time and we would have to leave chat off all the time and if that happened no one would be recruited and clans would decline and eventually turn to nothing.

---

I do not think the comment is that stupid at all. Unfortunately, the swearing and abuse that appears in the lobby is perpetuated by others who try to admonish the culprit/s by going one better. As for Clans and recruitment, some of the biggest culprits are actually Clan Members. Again, it is possible to play online without being in a Clan. From my experience, these culprits need drastic action because the abuse is not limited to the lobby chat area, it is present during army selection and also during the battle itself.
Now, where CA have been a bit naive, I will not join the mob and hurl abuse at them as I do not hold them responsible because of the behaviour of some pathetic fools who need a lesson in respect and manners

......Orda

way i see it...
Is
constant abuse = cd key banned.
i dont see the problem with that

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Orda Khan

I will not join the mob and hurl abuse at them as I do not hold them responsible because of the behaviour of some pathetic fools who need a lesson in respect and manners

......Orda

---

Oh stop it, you know nothing about online and yes some clans get spammers and stuff, most clans if not all get rid of them asap. You know little or nothing of our comunity, that is for sure.

Also CA made the "mistake" of letting people curse. The majority or people are at least respective of others. Why then are we being punished?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dreadedmob

Oh stop it, you know nothing about online and yes some clans get spammers and stuff, most clans if not all get rid of them asap. You know little or nothing of our comunity, that is for sure.

Also CA made the "mistake" of letting people curse. The majority or people are at least respective of others. Why then are we being punished?

---

Sorry to harm you feelings....but YOUR community discovered (UNFORTUNATELY) the TW series only after the CA turned the eye candy on and dumbed the game down enough for you not call it "not so real time ugly risk cr@p"...
MTW foyer didnt have even 10% of the abuse immaturity and idiocy that are present in RTW foyer.

Hellenes

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dreadedmob

puzz thats a stupid comment as new ones come all the time and we would have to leave chat off all the time and if that happened no one would be recruited and clans would decline and eventually turn to nothing.

---

Yes I know that, but clans have declined anyway. The foyer's design isn't supportive of organized teamplay. All RTW/BI is really intended for is to log in, join a game and play. Creative Assembly isn't going to redesign the foyer to support organized play. All they are concerned about is getting sued.

I understand you are coming from the perspective of someone who currently plays RTW/BI, and is fighting an uphill battle to maintain a clan in that foyer. I'm coming from the perspective of someone who had already stopped playing. My clan, which had played total war since Dec 2000, didn't make the transition to RTW because of the state of it's multiplayer. We all bought RTW, but most of the clan decided it wasn't worth playing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dreadedmob

Oh stop it, you know nothing about online and yes some clans get spammers and stuff, most clans if not all get rid of them asap. You know little or nothing of our comunity, that is for sure.

---

That is right, ROFL, I know nothing about online play. I bow to your obvious superiority.....You are very welcome to your community :flybye:

......Orda

You wouldn't happen to be MagyarKhan, would you Orda?

No I would not

......Orda

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Grey_Fox

You wouldn't happen to be MagyarKhan, would you Orda?

---

Now THAT was really a low blow, Grey_Fox ... lol. ~:joker:

Erm, I'm confused...

Havn't been visiting the b0rg long enough to understand what I've done wrong...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Grey_Fox

Erm, I'm confused...

Havn't been visiting the b0rg long enough to understand what I've done wrong...

---

Let's just say that searching for the username "Terazawa Tokugawa" won't be very fruitful;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Grey_Fox

Erm, I'm confused...

Havn't been visiting the b0rg long enough to understand what I've done wrong...

---

You haven't done anything wrong, m8. It was just funny, considering the two personalities involved in your question. It caught me by surprise (and I love those), and it brought a chuckle (and I luv those too). So, I chimed in. Thanks for the smile.

If your not kahn then who are you?
greys in the comunity longer than me and he doesn't know you.
oh and meh im sick of this convo so im prob not gonna post again unless i gota

Perhaps someone could open an msn account specifically for the RTW community i.e. RTWcom@hotmail.com for a good ol chat with people able to join and converse, not the same as chatting in the lobby but it's there all the same. The address could be put up on the org. The fan base here deserve the ability to met up and chat and this would be a temporary solution. Damn im smart. Whadda you think???

i got a far better idea,

if it works it would be good. have the modders mod the game so that when we enter a room at has everyone an auto pm. it constantly updates to include anyone that comes in etc...
that way we could talk again.

if your that desperate to talk,
Theres a chatroom right here at the org,
if you cant use that. theres 1 your welcome to use on my web page, Its java.
(no account passwords or emails needed)
"i will Boot out offencive people If im there"
You can also download rojer wilco. Which allows voice chat.
Temporary fixes. untill prob is solved.

And orda is to jochi. as jochi is to orda khan. As far as i know there father and son,
I may be wrong.
Sorry for the spelling of nouns,

Not the same at all.
It's like doing a science project or something with someone and you both can't talk or even right down what you want unless its approx 15 letters we'll say a page as an example of per game.
best example i can think of even though its [another swear word bites the dust], sorry.

Ah yes, Teragate... I've heard parts of the story, not all the datails though...

I think I'll shut up...

Mob, he goes back to STW so leave it at that.

Kenchi_Sulla posted this two days ago in the Entrance Hall, but it was apparently overlooked. I'll just post his message here.
==================================================

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kenchi_Sulla

Hello all, been a while...

I haven't posted ,or read any posts, here since the .org revamped the site a long time ago (job well done btw!!!). However, I was curious how everything was going in the "TW scene"... I checked in the multiplayer part of the game (offcourse!!!) and was a bit shocked what I found... Interesting development.

You see, I'm still a bit ticked off at CA - or the publishers - for not being able to do a good job on the multiplayer part of the game. I cant even understand it from a business point of view, spending some resources on a stable and fun version of the game online seems a good investment.

Anyway to come to my point, we all know that annoying dudes, rude dudes, racist dudes and plain ***holes play games too. CA Fell into it's own trap. They saved cash by neglecting the MP part of the game, and now they had to "CLOSE DOWN" the lobby chatwise because a couple of punks made racist remarks in a lobby. Thats not even close to a good excuse. If you are not able to monitor and guard your own freaking gamelobby after so many years, if your not even capable of safeguarding a working system but replacing it with a terrible lobby interface, how the HELL do you expect to do a better job now???

My point? Stop fooling everybody with marketing tricks, and start working on a good MP system..... a good chatsystem... It's not just a game, it's also a meeting place for people - show your responsibility in this.. If you own a bar and someone gets smacked around, wouldn't you also feel partially responsible?

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Grey_Fox

Ah yes, Teragate... I've heard parts of the story, not all the datails though...

I think I'll shut up...

Mob, he goes back to STW so leave it at that.

---

kk i agree with both of the later comments.

In reading these comments, it is not immediately clear to me if all of you are aware of one fact --- normal "chat" remains available in the Competitive Lobby -- or at least this was the case as of December 3-4.

I have read many of the comment in here regardingthe state of CA's response to the perceived wrongdoing as well as the state of their level of commitment to the Multiplayer Community. I stand with those who argue that CA is generally unconcerned with the multiplayer aspect of the game. Their response to MP problems/concerns is slow and, usually incomplete, when it occurs at all.

I am going to paste a copy of my December 1'st post in Shogun's thread to the MP community announcing the disabling of the MP chat feature on "their" boards. It should be noted that the "official" TW forums are similarly unfriendly to the MP community and are over-moderated by a heavy-handed group of individuals who view disagreement with CA as a violation of forum rules. This post eaned a derrisive comment from a moderator to the effect that I should not "throw around analogies":

Quote:

---

@ Shogun:

I appreciate the grave nature of the problem you are addressing, but it seems to me that your solution is akin to "throwing the baby out with the bathwater". You have approached the problem with a broad blade where a surgical instrument would have been more appropriate. I could go on with analogies, but I am sure you get the point.

It seems that you lack understanding of the real nature of the multiplayer RTW community - a bold accusation on my part and a surprising state of affairs for developers to find themselves in. By your choice and design (the wisdom of which I do not question and am not asking to debate) the only place to "match" a multiplayer game is on Gamespy. Many people, especially newer players, come to the MP lobbies looking for a game. Lobby chat is used to advertise particular "public" games with one or more open slots, to arrange for games with others simply looking for unscheduled online play, and for discussing game related matters in real time with other gamers, including, but not limited to, discussing a game just completed. Moreover, your "solution" is inadequate --- what is to stop someone from joining a game and making a racist comment?

Your decision diminishes the value of the product I purchased in response to wrongdoing that I did not commit. Your action breeches the representation made in the instruction manual regarding the multiplayer capabilities of the game. The totality of the record of CA staff, Board Administrator, and Board Moderator comments tend to demonstrate that multiplayer concerns play a secondary role in your thinking. Yet, CA has been responsive to the MP community in a fashion --- until now. I do not wish to sit in front of a computer for hours on end attempting to outsmart a microchip in the fields of urban planning, governmental finance, family planning, religious intrigue, strategic combat planning and tactical combat maneuvers against a very unskilled AI adversary. I prefer the multiplayer aspect of the game as do many others. We represent a significant portion of your audience and customer base.

Please reverse this decision. In its place, I suggest an immediate program of Lobby monitoring. I would volunteer for a time and lobby once each week and I am sure you could find numerous other adults willing to do so. The RTW unique ID # of those making offensive comments could be captured, the comments copied on a screen shot, and their access to MP through Gamespy could be banned by banning that number. This is a surgical solution - aimed at the offenders only. I am willing to devote a portion of my time to help make a solution of this nature work.

---

I know that many people in here would also be willing to help moderate the forums. Yet, CA totally ignored the good will of it's own customer base and chose to paint ALL of us with one brush. When the MP community begins to suggest reasonable alternatives (i.e. chat "filters", moderators to capture ID numbers, etc), Shogun posts telling us to stop posting as too much of his time is taken in reading posts! How utterly ridiculous --- and illuminating. Shogun obviously lacks any good explanation as to why they could not adopt one or several of the less restrictive alternatives to CA's outrageous over-reaction. It also illuminates the fact that CA does not respect the MP community.

Olorin I

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Olorin I

I have read many of the comment in here regarding the state of CA's response to the perceived wrongdoing as well as the state of their level of commitment to the Multiplayer Community. I stand with those who argue that CA is generally unconcerned with the multiplayer aspect of the game. Their response to MP problems/concerns is slow and, usually incomplete, when it occurs at all.

---

All you have to do is observe the decline in the design of the multiplayer forum from STW to MTW to RTW to realize that CA has become less and less concerned with providing a good multiplayer experience in Total War. In addition to the reduction in foyer features, the game itself has become less balanced with each of those releases.

Prior to the release of RTW, CA claimed that RTW would perform as well as MTW. In fact, unlike MTW you can't play it over a 56K modem. They removed the latency display for each hosted game, and simply state that you have to have broadband to play RTW multiplayer. The "normal" unit size was also decreased by 33% while the number of units only increased by 25%. This isn't performance equivalant to MTW. In addition to that, if you loose connect to GameSpy during a battle, you drop from that battle. STW wasn't like that. In STW, you weren't connected to the matchmaking server after the battle launched. If the server went offline, you didn't know it until the battle was over. In RTW, GameSpy itself is a factor, and possibly the major factor for many players, causing lag during a battle. There is no technical reason to keep GameSpy in the loop after a battle launches, and it's detrimental to the performance of the game.

The efficiency with which you can play the multiplayer game has declined since STW. We went from averaging 3 or 4 battles per hour in STW to 2 battles per hour in MTW and now 2 or 3 battles per 2 hours in RTW. You now spend the most time to play the least balanced version of Total War.

So, CA will fix the foyer chat to prevent a lawsuit, but I doubt much, if anything, beyond that will be done to improve the multiplayer experience. That experience has declined in quality over the last 5 years. It has certainly passed below my threshold for how I want to spend my time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Puzz3D

All you have to do is observe the decline in the design of the multiplayer forum from STW to MTW to RTW .

---

By far the most user friendly was that of Shogun, plus of course, there was the 'Chat room'. I fail to understand quite why they felt the need to change

....Orda

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Orda Khan

By far the most user friendly was that of Shogun, plus of course, there was the 'Chat room'. I fail to understand quite why they felt the need to change

---

I think the reason things changed from STW to MTW was the move from the EA server to the Activision server. Activision's GameSpy provides no serverside support according to Gil Jaysmith which means everything you see on the screen and all the features have to come from within the game itself. Some of the features of the STW foyer such as chat rooms I believe were coming from the EA server. In MTW, the game would have had to make the chat rooms. I believe CA tried to make chat rooms in MTW, but couldn't get them to work. The decline in the foyer design from MTW to RTW is a bit baffling except I don't think Gil Jaysmith designed it. It looks like someone less talented programmed the RTW foyer.

Since there is a patch coming for RTW/BI, I'll wait for that and give multiplayer another try after it comes out. I really want to like the game, but I have my limits on the amount of time I'm willing to spend per battle and the amount of imbalance I can tolerate. Spears are definitely working better in RTW/BI. I'll live with the somewhat fast running speeds, and use the more efficient drag & drop to move groups which will help. I don't have connect problems to GameSpy and I don't experience very much lag even with large units. BTW, large units is what I'll be looking to play. Gil Jaysmith even went so far as to suggest huge units as the way to increase fighting time, but the lag is too much to be practical, and it appears that fighting time has increased in RTW/BI anyway.

D'you know I'm loading up RTW now after a drunken - lets get the old mob back online

it appears our timing is as good as ever

lol

long live the PFJ

Here my last two posts on the Total War Forums on this subject - offered to the community here as food for thought.

12/23/2005:

Quote:

---

@ Shogun:

It is simply absurd that you have not crafted a solution to this issue after the passage of this much time. I do not say "problem" because this implies that CA had something to do with causing the lobby abuse. Clearly, this is not the case.

Surely, you cannot take this Choja fellow too seriously. He is abusive and parochial. He derides the manner in which free speech is protected in the USA without a true understanding of the complexity of the issue under US Constitutional Law. Although he is certainly verbose, mostly his diatribes are specters -- they may appear formidable, but they are without substance. It is difficult to believe that a true litigation exposure assessment conducted by counsel experienced in this field would yield a conclusion that CA is at siginificant risk of being held liable in a civil proceeding for the intentional bad acts of others.

As for fear of bad publicity, do not make me laugh. Racial comments, religious ridicule, abusive language, foul language, etc are certainly not confined to the Gamespy Lobbies of RTW - unacceptable behavior is rampant on the net --- and RTW is not even an egregious example of this kind of reprehensible behavior.

Let me leave you with this thought. Barbarian Invasion is an expansion pack. Only people with RTW will buy it. If the percentage of your customer base that plays multiplayer is important to you, then you will find a solution to this issue that permits lobby communication without further delay. This is not a threat, but I am merely predicting that potential purchasers who primarily play multiplayer will not purchase the game without the lobby chat function restored. Those of us who have already purchased the expansion will begin to consider returning the title to the stores where we purchased BI requesting a cash refund based on the product not conforming to its advertised capabilities by reason of an action undertaken by the game's developer. This would be truly tragic as RTW and BI are, all things considered, excellent products. I enjoy playing, but much less so now, I must admit.

Olorin I

---

12/28/2005:

Quote:

---

@ Shogun

It has been four weeks since you unilaterally announced the disabling of the chat feature in the RTW multiplayer lobbies. It has been two weeks since your last comment in the very thread that YOU started to keep the multiplayer community advised.

If you are serious about crafting a solution, then it is beyond reason to think that you have not, at least decided on a course of action and taken the initial steps along that course. It is time for you to apprise the community of the progress of your efforts in some degree of detail.

Of course, the cynical amongst us might think that multiplayer is not important to you and that CA never intended to do anything to restore the chat function - but that you/CA simply intended to make enough posts to prevent an initial firestorm, hoping that the ferocity of the storm would ebb as time passed. Certainly your conspicuous silence for the past two weeks gives creedance to that line of thought.

---

Since the total war forum moderators and administrators are largely intolerant of opinions that differ with or are critical of CA policy/comments, I imagine that one or both of these posts will be edited out and/or I will be banned. Nonetheless, I stand by my critical commentary.

Olorin I

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Olorin I

Since the total war forum moderators and administrators are largely intolerant of opinions that differ with or are critical of CA policy/comments, I imagine that one or both of these posts will be edited out and/or I will be banned. Nonetheless, I stand by my critical commentary.

---

I doubt you'll be banned and I doubt the posts will be editted. I've said pretty much the same thing and nothing has happened to me or my posts. You are allowed to be critical over at the .c0mmie, despite what the self-styled 'martyrs' and 'suicide bombers' (I kid you not, that is what they term themselves) over at the .Net and TWC might say.

Your posts Olorin, are indeed direct and to the point. iI has been 4 weeks since Sega's decision, and at this point they should be apprising us of their intentions. To still be in the dark after 1 full month is completely unnaceptable, and they need to know this so they do not confuse our patience and goodwill with naivete.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Olorin I

Since the total war forum moderators and administrators are largely intolerant of opinions that differ with or are critical of CA policy/comments, I imagine that one or both of these posts will be edited out and/or I will be banned. Nonetheless, I stand by my critical commentary.

Olorin I

---

It's bad language, schoolyard bully behaviour and the like that will have a post edited, the poster warned, removed for a few days/weeks or even banned at totalwar.org. Not voicing critics, concerns or even rants ('I don't like it' can hardly be called critics).

Mablung's reply on 12-30:

Quote:

---

Perhaps you could wait until the Christmas holidays are at an end, I imagine the CA crew are having a break.

---

My next post on 12-30:

Quote:

---

I wonder if the Publishers of other major games like BF2 or WOW would be completely silent on such a a major issue, and

"wait until the Christmas holidays are at an end"

to address it?

Most in our MP community are mature, respectful, and patient. Conversely however, this is no way for a responsible company to treat consumers who have purchased its product and the products ancillary services.

RTKCharlemagne

---

Hmm. I guess nobody in your neck of the woods gets a couple of weeks off for christmas...

However, I agree it has been too long without anything done. I'm just telling you nobody is going to respond until after New Year's.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by [cF]Adherbal

long live Ensemble Studios & Blizzard Entertainment.

---

Thats what i was thinking untill i actually played AoE III in my opinion the most boring game of the AoE series :skull:

My clan and our community have completely abandoned the Total War series over this. Well, that and the fact bugs and a crummy interface/bad servers were not improved upon by the expansion. The several members and myself who bought the game feel very cheated. Given the chance over, I would not have bought the expansion, nor Rome TW vanilla either. The headaches and frustration visitied on us first by the game and then by the developers lack of foresight has ruined whatever kind of loyalty I felt towards CA. I won't even start on Sega. I bought RTW on the basis of your past games of Medevail and Shogun. I bought the expansion in the hopes that this was an isolated incident, the "bomb" game some companies make from time to time. Instead, you (CA) proved you simply don't care about your customers, or take pride in the product you vomitted onto the shelf.


Before you trumpet the accomplishments of Blizzard, you may want to look at whats happening to them. Much like CA's developers, in World of Warcraft the game continues to decline as the developers ignore the pleas of the community and its paying customers. Look at the census numbers of players, you'll find that WOW has lost 28% of its North American player population since September. Thats staggering for a first year MMO. Granted it still has millions of players, but the rot is setting in.

Secondly is Warcraft 3, the current RTS for Blizzard. Again, looking at their own Battle.net census, you'll see between December of '04 where a little over 1 million games were played, there were fewer then 225,000 played in December of '05, and you can see the stready decline month by month. Its not because there's other RTS's out there competeting, because there isn't. Its because Blizzard screwed with the game and changed their match making system on the ladder, turning away tens of thousands of players who were tired of being pitted against the top ranked players game after game, with balance issues still severly out of whack. The ONLY thing I like that Blizzard has over CA and everyone else is the BattleNet, WHEN it working properly.

The lesson is too many companies are making games with the thought in mind we'll like them because they TELL US to. i.e. Square-Enix and Final Fantasy 12, Blizzard's World of Warcraft, Creative/Sega' Rome Total War, etc. Gone are the days when companies made games people wanted to see, or adapted them to the wants of their players.

Dont forget about Ensemble studios and AOE3, the game producers completely abandoned everyone that made the game, leaving once-loyal costumers pissed off. Theyre multiplayer doesnt work for a decent percentage of costumers, and even if it does work the servers dont half the time (Can you beleive ESO servers were flooded by a mere 5k people? the games got out of synch and at the end of the game their victorys didnt count)

Seems theres a plaque going around...Devolopers abandoning their games, in the hope that everyone will buy it and the expansion without complaint.

At LEAST RTW has patches coming out, and i think the single player is awsome, even if the multiplayer chat got f*cked up.

Not to darken an already dismal picture.

But you do all realize that quite possibility SEGA only bought Total War to avoid some nasty legal wrangling over the release of SEGA’s Spartan Total War.

That when the name conflict was realized, it was then resolved by simply gobbling up the embarrassment (probably cheaper that the lawsuit and adverse publicity).

If that is the case (which I hope it is not), we have little hope of ever moving forward to get things fixed, and have better Total War games in the future.

----

In comparison with previous editions, Rome was, and continues to be (for different reasons) a disaster for multiplayers. A community of hundreds of (quite possibly over a thousand) avid multiplayers has been lost, which is a shame for them, but even more of a shame for the manufactures.

I say that because of the belief that I have, that a thriving multiplayer community is the best advertisement a game can have, even for people who don’t play multiplayer. When single players see a healthy multiplayer community, it has got to be the “best” endorsement for a game's purchase. The logic being;

“if all of those people are having that much fun, It must be a great game”…

:bow:

Quote:

---

But you do all realize that quite possibility SEGA only bought Total War to avoid some nasty legal wrangling over the release of SEGA’s Spartan Total War.

---

Wasn't Spartan Total Warrior developed by CA though?

Theory is wrong. Spartan Total Warrior was in development long before CA went into negotiations with SEGA. Frankly I'm happy that SEGA now has CA since now we have had patches 1.3, 1.5 and 1.6 released, something that would not have happened under Activision due to it's one-patch policy per game (that means expansions would not be patched either).

The games might be developed by CA, but it's the publisher that actually sells them.

Quote:

---

Wasn't Spartan Total Warrior developed by CA though?

---

Yes that is correct. Please forgive my ignorance. I was speculating on possibilities, with no in-depth knowledge. I will be sure to do my home work in the future.

Quote:

---

Theory is wrong.

---

In that case, I am happy to be wrong. I too was initially glad to hear that SEGA’s involvement. But believe that they are, and will be operating only in the same capacity as Activision and Electronic Arts before them, with little or no concern with the development and maintenance of the actual games.

But I would love to be wrong about that also :smile:

I decided to add my two cents worth in that thread at the .com:

"The online community has never been given much priority with CA.

With each new TW game the MP community fell lower and lower on CA's priority list. The initial RTW MP game was proof of exactly how low on the priority list MP had dropped. It had fewer features, old problems from the past, and a really bad lobby interface which didn't attach usernames with CD-Keys (which is the main reason for chat being removed). Without the CD-Key-to-username, players cannot be banned from the server, nor can they be permanently #ignored or #banned from games since all they have to do is log on with a different username. This is very interesting, since MTW also used the Gamespy servers, but had the ability to permanently ban and ignore players from the MP lobby. Why would this have changed for RTW? Cost issues? New programmers?

A vast majority of the old STW/MTW MP community left once they tried RTW's MP and found it to be lacking. A vibrant MP community was deemed unneccessary and unimportant since CA's target market had changed. I am sorry to hear that the new tarket market group of MP players (who replaced the old MP community) are already having to deal with the reality of where MP stands in the overall CA TW grand scheme of things.

If you believe things will change for the better: They will not. Ask anyone who has been here since the STW days and they will tell you the truth (if you have any doubts) about the history of the TW MP and CA.

Some would agree, the only reason MP was included at all was due to the fact the game would not have gotten very good reviews, nor sold as well, if it had left MP out entirely. It has been said the MP community is a small percentage of overall sales of the TW series, but it is used as a major selling point when marketing the game. This "small percentage" mindset is why RTW MP does not receive the attention the current MP community expects. There has never been, and will never be, an interest shown in the needs of the MP community."


CA needs to be reminded every now and then they ignore the MP community at their own peril. Eventually their games will stop selling, since they haven't added anything to gameplay since STW. I think it is a dead franchise, on its last legs. I am not sure if they have lost their best programmers or if they have just decided to milk the game until everyone shows their displeasure by not purchasing future TW games. THAT is the real way to get their attention. If it doesn't effect the bottom line, it isn't important to them.

Very good points Elmo.

<sighs>

I am setting up a thread to collect a wishlist for the next TW game. Please participate in it and point out what absolutely must be in the next game to make MP work well and be attractive in drawing in new players.

Example: CD-Key-to-Player-Username feature so CA will not have to shut down chat to stop the current problems with harrassment etc . . Need to be able to permanently ban/ignore players from your chat screen and games. Also, in extreme cases, a player could be banned from the MP lobby altogether.


Things such as this. It may not do any good, but now would be the time to present a list since CA's attention has been drawn to MP with the shut down of chat. I am sure they would like to avoid that in the next game and will be more susceptible to take a close look at the MP community's wish list as long as it is non-critical of the current game and lists a valid reason why the item would be good for the game (MP and/or SP).

I will also post at the .com asking for ideas/wishes.

I am willing to come back to TW if they bring back features of old, which made the MP game so much fun to play. Atmosphere is what is missing from RTW MP. For some reason it just doesn't have that "THANG" which keeps you coming back. :)

My latest post at the RTW forums...

Quote:

---

In a conversation I had with Choja several weeks back, he stated that in a personal meeting with 2 upper level Sega managers concerning the lobby issue, the Sega representatives made a comment alluding to a perception that MP had only 200 people playing. The comment was made in relation to making decisions investing more money to fix the chat issues based on such a small number of people playing.

At this point based on the lack of response from Sega, I have no reason to doubt his statement. Where is our answer Shogun???

---

The wait, along with the unresponsiveness of Sega is unnaceptable.

Maybe we need another letter from the community, with sigs attached. We could mail this directly to Sega, and put pressure on from another angle. Forget going through "shogun" and the .com. There are more than 200 people all told, it's just that the online atmosphere sucks.

If Sega isn't concerned due to the small amount of people online, I wish CA would just release a server patch, and let us run our own servers. This takes them off the hook, and gives us some control.

Later all

Cromwell

HA hA hAaa

Dont you see the stupidity in that statement about only being 200 people online.

The Bloody online thing dosent fully work, ITS DEFECTIVE -thats why!! sheesh.:wall:

Its a fair testament to the people who do play online despite of this, putting up with "Cannot connect to host", "Gamespy has encountered an error" and so on when trying to join games then, with those that can host "the game has desynched" style error messages. Many people can host but not join games!!! the list go's on.

By right im suprised anyone play's under these conditions when you have the latest flash and dazzle, online, fully working titles but amazingly the community puts up with these hardships to say the least, and gets the above statement which contradicts itself.

If there are hundreds of people willing to be patient with a defective, frustrating, flawed online game imagine how many people would be interested in the same game that actually allows people to play online with out these afflictions. Look at the effort put into the top quality mods!! I like to call it common sense.

Not to be entirely negative i would like to thank CA/Shogun etc. for implementing the last patch and putting the option of removing the fairy sparkle effect a gripe of mine and also making the cav / infantry balance more realistic and plausable and for fixing the replays i do appreciate it and you deserve some positive feedback every now and then im sure though people arent likely to post just to say everything is working dandy, -for the patches thank you and keep it up.

Celtic Tiger...