Space Games?

Completely without warning, I have recently become interested in games set in space, a genre the charms of which had previously eluded me. Stupid me. Starfleet Command III has just arrived and I am enjoying it tremendously, but I want more...

Any thoughts on Freelancer? And has anybody got X3: Reunion yet? The screen shots for the second look amazing and the open-endedness (for want of a real word) of the campaign sounds great. However, there has been some talk about it being buggy and the StarForce copy protection being problematic(?).

Any other suggestions? (My taste tends to the tactical sim rather than grand strategy, but I make exceptions- the upcoming incarnation of Galactic Civilizations will probably be one, if I still have the "outward urge").

Speaking of "The Outward Urge": damn it, why hasn't somebody made a game of "The Day of the Triffids" ?!?

I'll definately get Galatic Civilizations II, when it comes out. It seems like such a sweet game. ~:)

IMHO Conflict Freespace 1 and 2 were excellent space combat sims. Bit old now I suppose.

Freelancer is a fun game. The singleplayer campaign is quite hard if you play through the story without doing many sidequests and thus getting better ships, weaponry and accessories. The way the game is designed makes it rather easy for you as a newling to get sucked right into the story. At certain points I really wished I had a better ship, because instead of blowing up enemy fighters I had to evade like a coward and hope to survive. Ha ha! It does lose it's appeal rather fast though, but that might just be me (played MP aswell for a couple of weeks).

I have X2. However I have barely played it yet and I have it for a couple of months already, perhaps even a year? Anyways it had or should I say it didn't have certain things that discouraged me to play on. Such as the use of a mouse for many things where I would consider it useful and is more of a standard in most games nowadays. You can't for example use your mouse in the gamemenu, really annoying. Feels like a game from 10 years ago because of it. Flying was rather hard, I couldn't adjust the sensitivity. But as I said I barely gave it a try, so perhaps it is a good game and the patches turned it into a less cumbersome game and even enjoyable for me. I do really like their general idea though!

You most likely already know about the Homeworld series? Still a good recommedation in my opinion.

Starwars: Battlefront 2? It isn't a Strategy space sim and only a semi-space game, but thought I'd mention it. I thought about buying it today, but decided not to. I still have to many games that I need/want to finish or can still play for quite sometime before I get bored with them.

Can't think of anything else at the moment.

Freespace 2 is still one of the best space combat sims. So is Independence War 2. Both are rather old games, but still enjoyable.

Nexus: the Jupiter Incident is a great tactical simulation of capital ship combat (a couple dozen ships per battle at maximum), but it lacks replayability since the story and battles are pre-scripted and linear. Bargain bin material.

Then there's, of course, Space Rangers 2. Not sim, more like Star Control 2 or Elite. One of the most fun games this year imho. ~D

Sid Meyer's Alpha Centuri is an excellent Science Fiction strategy game with hours of game play - a sort of civilisation in space. What's more you can pick it up for a song now - I saw it in game the other week for 99p!!

Different factions with different abilities - just loads of choices. But be warned, it is not a wild shoot em up, but is a game of deep thought (no not that deep thought). However, many actions can be automated so you can concentrate on the strategy.

Finally you can change the faction leader's name to what you want - I had an excellent game with the Spartans - the militaristic, attack everybody faction - who were led by Susan the Terrible.~:cheers:

You mentioned a game of "Day of the Triffids" and that got me thinking of System Shock 2. It's set in two space ships and is an action/rpg hybrid with horror overtones. One of the best computer games ever - certainly one to make the best impression.

I went back to X-Com1 the other day and had a lot of fun with it. It's squad level tactics - on earth but vs aliens.

Two excellent futuristic RPGs are the Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic games and the Fallout games.

Starfleet command 2. It is a lot better than 3.

Ahhh System Shock 2... I get all warm inside whenever somebody mentions it.

Anyway on to the subject.
X3: the Reunion is good, a significant upgrade to X2 in regards to looks, but it is horribly unstable and has a huge drain of memory when there are more than just a few ships and stations (which means practically all the time).
The story is so-so compared to X, but it is not bad.

The universe is big, and there are big money to be made, but beware of the dynamic economy, severe backlashes can indeed happen.

If you liked the other games it is most certainly worth it, but if you aren't much for creating a huge economic empire and traveling a whole lot, then this isn't for you. But you can always become a hunter or a pirate.

Whew, thanks for all the suggestions! Sorry I have been so slow to reply: about yesterday, just let me say 'stuff happens'. (Feel free to substitute for "stuff".)

1pain1Duck, Galactic Civilizations 2 does look sweet, doesn't it? I especially like the ability to customize your own species: wow that sounds fun!

Thanks for the reminders about Freespace 2:ya know, I actually have it. It came bundled with a joystick I got a year ago. I gave the tutorial a try and it didn't grab me, but I should give it a second look now that I'm more interested in this genre.

Ok, Freelancer is definitely on the list. I hadn't even heard of Nexus: The Jupiter Incident; Alpha Centauri ;Fallout or Space Rangers 2, but will check 'em out. I am definitely thinking about Homeworld 2, especially in regards to the Warlords Star Wars mod.

System Shock 2 could be a little too shocking for my system!:eeeek: Still, if two mods recommend it... I will have a look at some screen shots and see if I don't have too many nightmares.~;)

Martinus, what is it about SfC2 that you much prefer?

Kraxis you have confirmed for me all the things about X3 which sounded great to me. But you have also confirmed the doubts I had regarding performance and stability. Have you tried it with the latest patch? According to the manufacturer it fixes a memory leak (not that I really understand what that means), if I remember the blurb correctly.

Cheers you guys: if I get even a third of those games, they should keep me out of trouble for a good while!~:cheers:

I'm again looking forward for the ability of building your own ships. ~:)
Anyways the game looks like it has huge amounts of potential to me, so I'm definately getting it.

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I'm again looking forward for the ability of building your own ships.

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Yes, that should be cool. I also like the way the different species are nicely differentiated both physically and in terms of their personalities.

An interesting game to look out for is Star Trek: Online. I believe that it is basically going to be an MMORPG set in the Star Trek universe. You can be all sorts of races, do all sorts of things (nearly anything!). You could even be captain of your own Starfleet Ship! It is expected to go beta in 2006, and (this is just me guessing) will probably be released in 2007.

http://www.startrek.com/startrek/vie...ine/index.html

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An interesting game to look out for is Star Trek: Online.

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I've only got dial-up at the moment ~:mecry:, but surely I will have a fast connection by then. If they pull it off, if it feels 'Trek', it will be fantastic...

edit: using the word "cool" way too much.

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what is it about SfC2 that you much prefer?

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Yes. Have you played it?

Martinus, no I haven't played SfC2, just SfC3, which I do like. But if SfC2 is that much better, I could be convinced to give it a try. Will it work with XP?

Works fine on XP.

I found a demo:
http://www.fileshack.com/file.x?fid=2513

If you have a Fileplanet account:
http://www.fileplanet.com/50426/5000...Volume-II-Demo

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Originally Posted by Androo

Still, if two mods recommend it...

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Three mods. If you don't get it now then we'll need to see about a ban :winkg:

It's scary. It's creepy. It's disturbing. It's old and now rather ugly. It is ... unsurpassed. It has a wonderful plot for a game, a great way of telling it, atmosphere, it hooks you in and refuses to let you go. It requires brains more than blasters. Don't think it's pure horror though; it has some funny parts, some inspring parts, a touchingly understated lovestory sideplot; some of everything. If it's any help, I don't like scary games much either. They simply don't interest me.

Hey, thanks Martinus, I will check it out!

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If you don't get it now then we'll need to see about a ban

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*sigh*I knew it was only a matter of time, but I didn't think that it would happen so soon...:san_cry:

Frogbeastegg that is the best (and most succinct) review of a game I have ever read. It sounds tremendous, almost the game I have been dreaming of. Three mods* makes a quorum: it is now at the top of my must-play list. (It doesn't quarrel with XP?)

*Three mods are also sufficient to take on the rockers on the beach at Brighton. Mods vs Rockers mod of RTW anyone?

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Originally Posted by frogbeastegg

It's scary. It's creepy. It's disturbing. It's old and now rather ugly.

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For the ugly bit, I believe there is a mod that does not change the game, but rather updates all the textures in the game making it look much prettier...

In fact check out:

http://www.fileplanet.com/filelist.aspx?s=94465&v=0

The TExt reads:

Did you ever wanted to play System Shock 2 with new enhanced graphics ?
That's what the "System Shock Rebirth" mod is made for... It will replace all the originals low polygons AI meshes by totally new Hi-res ones...
SHODAN is back... but this time, in all her beauty...

This Beta contained the following enhanced characters:
- The Many Hybrid with Pipe
- The Many Hybrid with Shotgun
- The Many Hybrid with Grenades
- The Midwife
- The Cyborg Assassin
- All Dead Crew Members of the Von Braun and the Rickenbacker
- The Ghosts

It works fine with XP, at least on my system. Now, off you go. Go find a copy, so you too can learn why I get all nervous when I hear monkey noises. :gring:

Ah, yes. I remember that mod. Last I heard it had only just been started, so it's obviously been a while.

Just for the sake of discussion, SS2 is not a space game - more like a cyberpunk action/adventure/RPG/horror game. But a great game, yes, that it is. :san_grin:

I revisited it a couple years ago with a friend; we played it cooperatively in LAN. (A later patch added multiplayer to the game.) A darkened room, powerful sound system, and the increased tension of having to pool resources and be more careful in combat added even more to the already thrilling atmosphere. We had quite a few amusing friendly fire incidents with the heavier weapons. :san_laugh:

I wouldn't dare co-op SS2... I think I would kill my teammate too often out of pure shock.

I used to play it at night... It was scary and tense, but not horrorlike as good old froggy says. It was just very tense, you never knew what would come at you, or if you had enough ammo to deal with it.

I remember a time when I had run out of ammo, and three Many Hybrids came at me. They hadn't seen me so I bolted into a sideentrance (the long corrideros where you meet the Walkers)... The Hybrids walked by, but then the last one stopped. I was standing there in the darkness with my wrench, I was tensed up so bad that I hadn't noticed I was perspiring heavily... Just as the Hybrid turned to face me a single drop of perspiration dropped from the armpit (don't think about it:san_rolleyes:) to my side and I literally screamed out loud of fear and shock and I jumped from the chair ready to fight.

My parents came running wondering what was going on, finding me standing in combatpose looking for unseen assailants... Boy have they had a lot of fun on my account.

But the game is highly entertaining, and I think half of the goodness coems from the combination of the ghosts and the logs you stumble over. They are so damn alive. And who cam forget when that pair you have been chasing all over flees from that Brute while you can only wait for the door to open enough. ARGH!

Homeworld 2 is a very good space RTS. Since it's a RTS set in space, you operate on all three axis, something that is rather unique in the genre. The graphics are VERY good as well, even though its a couple years old.

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It works fine with XP, at least on my system. Now, off you go. Go find a copy, so you too can learn why I get all nervous when I hear monkey noises.

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Frightening monkey noises!?! O well, I'm off to eBay...:san_wink:

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For the ugly bit, I believe there is a mod that does not change the game, but rather updates all the textures in the game making it look much prettier...

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Even better! Thanks for that, Bob the Insane. I don't have a fileplanet account, but perhaps I can find it elsewhere. (Or perhaps it is time to give up and get an account.)

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I remember a time when I had run out of ammo, and three Many Hybrids came at me. They hadn't seen me so I bolted into a sideentrance (the long corrideros where you meet the Walkers)... The Hybrids walked by, but then the last one stopped. I was standing there in the darkness with my wrench,

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That sounds absolutely brilliant! I love the subtlety of the last one stopping.

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I literally screamed out loud of fear and shock and I jumped from the chair ready to fight.

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Hee! Hee! Not a problem for me, living on my lonely-o. I may be:scared: , but by the time anybody sees me, I should be like Fonzie:san_cool: .

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Just for the sake of discussion, SS2 is not a space game - more like a cyberpunk action/adventure/RPG/horror game.

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Good point, duly noted.~:)

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you operate on all three axis, something that is rather unique in the genre

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Yes, that is one of the few things I don't like about SfC3. Come on: it's space but the ships only move on the x and y axes?!?

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Thanks for the reminders about Freespace 2:ya know, I actually have it. It came bundled with a joystick I got a year ago. I gave the tutorial a try and it didn't grab me, but I should give it a second look now that I'm more interested in this genre.

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If you already have it, go for it. It's excellent, quite immersive. I particularly liked how the plotline is revealed in-game, tying the player into the conflict.

I still remember the names of almost every spacecraft in there, with their class designations. :san_rolleyes:

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If you already have it, go for it.

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Definitely shall!

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I still remember the names of almost every spacecraft in there, with their class designations.:san_rolleyes:

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Yeah, that can happen...:san_wink:

Homeworld! It still looks awesome, and the atmosphere is amazing. It really has this 'space is big' quality, with awesome almost tribal music that really enhances that lonely feeling. Cool epic story as well, very good game.

Fragony, is that the original Homeworld? (Homeworld 2 should already be on its way to me:san_cheesy: )

Does anybody know if X Wing Alliance will fly with XP?

edit: X wing question.

From what I've been told SFC3 is considerably "dumbed down," and far less complex that its predecessors. I've not played SFC3, but I have played SFC and SFC2, and I find the sim to be a lot of fun--lots of complexity in controls, variety in ships, which results in a plethora of different tactics and strategies. Be warned, while the battles are excellent, the campaigns are terrible, imo. But the battles you can fight make it worth it to me, especially since you should be able to get it very cheap now.

TIE Fighter is an all-time classic that can still teach many modern games a thing or two about game design.

If online gaming's your thing I've heard plenty of good things about Eve Online; basically a free-for-all space game, where it's almost all about player interactions. Players are practically free to do as they wish, and create their own stories.

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Originally Posted by Geoffrey S

TIE Fighter is an all-time classic that can still teach many modern games a thing or two about game design.

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Seconded!!!

It is by far the best space flight-sim out there. It was simple, yet it had inummerable choices if you so chose (power to engines/shields/weapons each had an impact on the other two), surplus power from weapons to shields (a nice boost in case the shields got taken out by misslies).
Easy controls for flight (I flew with a mouse... basically destroyed it on it), innovative targeting (green HUD for hits, yellow for locking missile on, red for lock)

Very hard if you so chose (har was indeed hard and easy was also easy), the secondary objectives had a point (special ranking for that)... Long game (Gold edition had more than 100 missions), very good plot in almost all missions, not at all linear and surprising twists at all corners. You truly felt like an Imperial TIE pilot...

And there were so many things that has since been either forgotten or reinvented.

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Originally Posted by Kraxis

Very hard if you so chose (har was indeed hard and easy was also easy), the secondary objectives had a point (special ranking for that)... Long game (Gold edition had more than 100 missions), very good plot in almost all missions, not at all linear and surprising twists at all corners. You truly felt like an Imperial TIE pilot...

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Yeah. I loved the way secondary objectives weren't mandatory, but the game really made me want to complete those objectives; the way the game evoked the feeling of actually serving in the Imperial Navy was wonderful, it broke down the barriers between game and reality better than many more recent games.

Yeah those secondary objective in time became my primary objectives... I wanted to go as far as I could (managed to get to the very end of the line).

And it was nice working for Thrawn, being his pet pilot so to speak.

Do you remember captain Kuuztin? I have long wondered if he got killed or defected to Zaarin. A lot points to the defection.

I've acquired Freespace 2, and am finding it (slightly) superior to Tie Fighter.

Mind you, I played Tie off of floppy disks! And I have an interest in the CD version (I think that's Tie Fighter Gold).

Freespace has a bit more interesting weapons - more variety.

Though the energy management for Tie was much better - I'm still not sure how to manage the finicky FS2 energy management system.

The plot for both FS2 and Tie are very well made (from what I remember and have played). Though the huge amount of video in FS2 is very nice.

I like the Star Wars universe better, though. :san_wink:

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From what I've been told SFC3 is considerably "dumbed down," and far less complex that its predecessors.

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Interesting... I am begining to find the battles a bit repetitive.

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Tie fighter...

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Yeah, but the only good Tie fighter is the one that is in my sights!:san_angry: Seriously, how am I going to win Leia away from that clown Solo if I don't fly for the good guys? (:san_embarassed: :san_embarassed: :san_embarassed: )

Nobody knows about X Wing Alliance and XP? It can be had very cheaply... I suppose I will just pick it up and hope that the XP compatability thang does the trick... It is getting to the point that there are so many good older games out there that it might even be worth getting a second, inexpensive low-end rig and putting Windows 2000 or even 98 onto it...

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I like the Star Wars universe better, though.

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Me too. It fills out the experience so much and helps greatly (me at least) with the suspension of disbelief when there is such a rich cinematic back-story. One summer nearly thirty years ago I dreamt of almost nothing but shooting down Ties (+ see above Leia comment:san_embarassed: )....

Oh man, if these games had been around then (!)...

I hate Star Wars so frickin' much. It is a real game killer for me, especially because it supresses origional ideas for space games. That is why I loved Freespace 2 and Homeworld- the developers took the time to come up with an origional storyline, rather than defaulting to Star Wars. (Star Trek, by the way, is almost worse- I still can't understand how anyone saw anything in that series... the only version that was good is the origional, and that is only when you are loaded! Then again, Star Wars isn't even good when you are high- that is the only reason Star Trek is one notch above Star Wars. I just can't help cracking up every time I hear Kirk speak.)

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I hate Star Wars so frickin' much.

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Heresy!:san_wink:

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Originally Posted by Zorba

" ... Star Trek, by the way, is almost worse ...

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Blasphemy!

Fire all phasers. Mr. Spock, neck pinch please. Mr. Sulu ... ah, nevermind. :san_wink:

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Originally Posted by Kraxis

And it was nice working for Thrawn, being his pet pilot so to speak.

Do you remember captain Kuuztin? I have long wondered if he got killed or defected to Zaarin. A lot points to the defection.

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That's the briefing bloke, right? The moment that stuck with me was when supposedly training two wingmen whilst being watched over by a Star Destroyer, and it's all a setup to kill you. Very immersive. Or, unforgetably, having Darth Vader as a wingman.

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Originally Posted by Zorba

I hate Star Wars so frickin' much. It is a real game killer for me, especially because it supresses origional ideas for space games. That is why I loved Freespace 2 and Homeworld- the developers took the time to come up with an origional storyline, rather than defaulting to Star Wars.

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Piffle. Perhaps what you say could be applied to some of the more recent games, although KotOR is a remarkable exception, but in the early days Star Wars games and other by LucasArts could be counted on to be innovative and rather good. Considering games like X-Wing or TIE Fighter unoriginal is nonsense: they were the originals.

And there's certainly something to be said for basing a game in a universe as rich as that of Star Wars. Everyone knows the background, recognises the trademark ships and characters, and it allows developers to get on with telling a good new story with what everyone already knows as solid established groundwork. I wouldn't argue that this should be the case exclusively, but in the Star Wars universe there's more than enough room to create an interesting story whilst staying true to the generally known backstory.

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Originally Posted by Androo

Fragony, is that the original Homeworld? (Homeworld 2 should already be on its way to me:san_cheesy: )

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The first, I never really could get into the second, maybe I enjoyed the first so much my expectations were a bit too high. Really had that 'been there done that' for me, but I reckon that won't be a problem for you.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

...maybe I enjoyed the first so much my expectations were a bit too high. Really had that 'been there done that' for me, but I reckon that won't be a problem for you.

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Right... yes, not a problem, it will all be new to me. Should be sweet.:san_cheesy: (If System Shock 2 doesn't kill me first...)

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Originally Posted by Geoffrey S

Piffle. Perhaps what you say could be applied to some of the more recent games, although KotOR is a remarkable exception, but in the early days Star Wars games and other by LucasArts could be counted on to be innovative and rather good. Considering games like X-Wing or TIE Fighter unoriginal is nonsense: they were the originals.

And there's certainly something to be said for basing a game in a universe as rich as that of Star Wars. Everyone knows the background, recognises the trademark ships and characters, and it allows developers to get on with telling a good new story with what everyone already knows as solid established groundwork. I wouldn't argue that this should be the case exclusively, but in the Star Wars universe there's more than enough room to create an interesting story whilst staying true to the generally known backstory.

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"Piffle"? :stare:

See, I am not calling the origionals unorigional because they were not the first of their kind- I know they were. What I am calling unorigional is the Star Wars story. I find it to be an idiotic story to begin with; I hate all the characters, or at least the ones I know (and no, not everyone knows all of the ships and characters- I am one of those people.) and I hate everything about the story itself. If you were talking about Dune, I could understand- there is so much to be explored there. But everything that even touches Star Wars has such a dumbed-down, cardboardish feel to it.

George Lucas came up with Star Wars as a sort of epic for the modern age- and he completely and utterly failed. Why it should still be followed so devoutely is completely beyond my comprehension. However, I have to admit I can understand its following more than ****in' Star Trek... god almighty.

Zorba, first I should mention that when I talk about "Star Wars", I am referring to the first three films. I haven't seen the more recent three and don't plan on doing so.

"Unoriginal"? Yes and no, I would say. It seems pretty obvious that Star Wars had its antecedents in Flash Gordon et al. There is much of Ming the Merciless in Darth Vadar and Buck Rogers in Han Solo. Yet when I sat in that theatre that summer afternoon so many years ago, I was enthralled. I had never seen anything like it...

I think that much of what you dislike so intensely about the series is what attracts me to it, though clearly viewed from different perspectives. What you find "idiotic" seems kind of innocent and charming to me now, reminding me of my own boyhood naivete and hopes for swashbuckling adventure. Which is why I probably won't see the prequel films. Seen for the first time with the eyes of an adult, as opposed to the original films, which I saw as a kid and teenager, the second trilogy would be almost certain to disappoint me.

Great art, an "epic for the modern age"? No, I don't think so either. But I don't think Lucas intended the first films to be such. (By the way, what little I know about Dune leads me to believe that it would not reach that mark either.) These are space films and games. Many, if not most, mature adults would consider that they are all childishly silly (including Dune; Freespace 2 etc. etc.). There is something a little childish about them all. But to be able to dream and adventure imaginatively as children do: that is one of the things that is so wonderful about the genre!

I think you have turned the heavy artillery of your adult artistic criteria on a children's play fort. Um, cease fire?!? :san_huh:

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Originally Posted by Zorba

See, I am not calling the origionals unorigional because they were not the first of their kind- I know they were. What I am calling unorigional is the Star Wars story. I find it to be an idiotic story to begin with; I hate all the characters, or at least the ones I know (and no, not everyone knows all of the ships and characters- I am one of those people.) and I hate everything about the story itself. If you were talking about Dune, I could understand- there is so much to be explored there. But everything that even touches Star Wars has such a dumbed-down, cardboardish feel to it.

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Somewhat agreed. Note that I've not yet said that I don't find the Star Wars story simplistic, and for good reason: it's not an original, complicated story with well-developed characters. But what the Star Wars series does provide is an extensive backstory rich in locations, ships, and particularly minor characters. Practically every minor object, person or whatever which has been onscreen in the original trilogy has become a story on its own. This creates a rich pool of information to draw from when creating a new Star Wars game: the creaters can draw from what future players already know (lightsabers, speeder bikes, whatever) and any number of sidestories which make sense in the greater whole, or even make up their own story. It allows for the story being told to be as complex (or not) as they want, the makers can create as many new and interesting characters as the plot demands.

Sure, I'd prefer a whole new story for games, not based in the Star Wars universe. What I mean to say is that the backstory of Star Wars is so huge, that there's so much to draw from with regards to recognisable minor events, characters and ships that it allows the authors to make full use of this while creating their own story to add to the whole.

Arguably it'd be less interesting to those who aren't as interested in the whole Star Wars thing or haven't been at some point in the past (such as yourself), but even then I'd have though a fantastic game such as Tie Fighter would stand on its own merits, rather than deserving you dismissing it because of its Star Wars heritage.

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Originally Posted by Androo

(If System Shock 2 doesn't kill me first...)

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It won't kill you, it will drain you and leave you a gibbering mess, begging for it to stop. Not unlike the Hybrids that beg to be killed, oh the memories :san_shocked:

weeeee seeeeee youuuuu RUN! brrrrrr

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Originally Posted by Fragony

...it will drain you and leave you a gibbering mess...

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Heh, heh. Ok, good: my friends and family won't notice any difference...:san_wink:

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Originally Posted by Geoffrey S

That's the briefing bloke, right? The moment that stuck with me was when supposedly training two wingmen whilst being watched over by a Star Destroyer, and it's all a setup to kill you. Very immersive. Or, unforgetably, having Darth Vader as a wingman.

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No no... he is with you all the way, he is just influenced by his superiors, so at the time he does think of you as a bit of a haughty and arrogant ace pilot. But that was one great battle... You really feel pressured in an unshielded TIE Interceptor going at mines and shielded, faster TIE Advanceds, nasty! Death to Vice Admiral Harkov!

No Kuuztin is the captain of the ISD that you are aboard when you attack a specific spacestation where there are two Frigates and an Interdictor (and lots of fighters), Gold edition needed I think. Sound impossible? Well, you are equipped with a Missile Boat with a reload tug ready to help you (though it tends to get shot down).

In any case, when you 'win' and have blasted all the enemies, suddenly two ISDs (Thunderer and something similar) comes in, forcing your ISD to 'flee' and then you can set about destroying them too. The way your ISD flees and the fact that it never returns later (the captain was highly praised) indicates that he joined Zaarin.

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Yeah, but the only good Tie fighter is the one that is in my sights! Seriously, how am I going to win Leia away from that clown Solo if I don't fly for the good guys?

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Androo, that is the entire point. You are not a bad guy, you see the conflict from the other side, you see how the Rebels can be bad (as in any war) and how they are just trying to topple the legitimate government. You also go about and supress civil wars and hunting pirates. The Imperials aren't evil per se, just like the Germans weren't evil per se in WWII. And that is what makes the game so great, it gives you an insight into the working of the other side, what drives them.

Besides, it is far more fun fighting X-Wings in an unshielded TIE than the other way around. Also, you face more than enough enemy TIEs. Being unshielded makes you think a whole lot different, a lot of calculations need to be made every second, and you can't afford to stay on a target for too long.
I had great fun trying to waste three Corellian Corvettes with my single TIE Fighter... Never got past killing the first one.

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Originally Posted by Kraxis

...you see how the Rebels can be bad (as in any war) and how they are just trying to topple the legitimate government.

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Well I think in the first three films, anyway, the 'good guys' and 'bad guys' are pretty clearly delineated, in a rather simplistic and naive way. Which again is part of the charm of the series for me. Sometimes I am interested in a more mature and morally complex depicition of a reality, sometimes I just want to know who is a black hat and who is a white hat.

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The Imperials aren't evil per se, just like the Germans weren't evil per se in WWII.

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At the risk of entering into a political debate, which I strenuously try to avoid in this context... Of course, not all individual Germans at the time of the second world war were evil- far, far, from it. However, I certainly believe the German cause in the war was evil. One of the great things about games is the choice of virtual reality they afford the player: you don't have to be conscripted and fight for a cause in which you don't believe. The gamer can pick his or her fights, as it were. So, I choose to never fly a Zero or a Tie.:san_wink: (One of my gaming regrets of the past year is that I can't bring myself to skipper one of the U Boats of SH III. It looks gorgeous. Oh well, apparently SH IV will be set in the Pacific...)

C'mon, all the cool pilots are flying Tie-fighters! Remember, there are three things in this world: Good, Evil, and peer pressure.....

There's one more thing in life: shields.

Just not on Ties. :san_laugh:

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Originally Posted by mongoose

C'mon, all the cool pilots are flying Tie-fighters! Remember, there are three things in this world: Good, Evil, and peer pressure.....

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Hee, hee... Must resist... Dark Force Cool too strong...:san_cool:

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Originally Posted by Kraxis

Besides, it is far more fun fighting X-Wings in an unshielded TIE than the other way around...Being unshielded makes you think a whole lot different, a lot of calculations need to be made every second...

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Originally Posted by Alexander the Pretty Good

There's one more thing in life: shields.

Just not on Ties.

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I have to admit it would be kind of fun without shields...

But do any of these games work on XP, I wonder... I checked out the Lucasarts forums for X Wing Alliance: there are a number of reports of conflicts...

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Originally Posted by Alexander the Pretty Good

There's one more thing in life: shields.

Just not on Ties. :san_laugh:

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It felt great flying in ships with shields in TIE Fighter after progressing through the campaign flying in relatively fragile ships. The game starts off with merely scanning cargo holds, but gradually allows entrance to an elite within the Empire and the accompanying secrets; at some points you actually know more than your actual briefing officer about a mission because of your contacts. Excellent.

So... what do you fly later on? a Tie defender?

I've yet to get this game.


"Hee, hee... Must resist... Dark Force Cool too strong..."

You know that the dark side is stronger.

"There's one more thing in life: shields.

Just not on Ties."

Only rebel pansies need shields to keep their craft in flight. a Tie pilot uses skill and speed to knock those Flying Cribs out of the sky.

:charge:

Tie Avengers and Defenders have shields.

The gunboat (my favorite from back in the day) also had shields, but isn't a "TIE" fighter. Though it has ion engines like TIEs, and I forget what the "T" in "TIE" stands for...

Twin Ion Engines? the gun boat was cool. Though maybe a little too powerful.

Twin! That's it! Thank you. :san_cheesy:

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Originally Posted by Androo

Well I think in the first three films, anyway, the 'good guys' and 'bad guys' are pretty clearly delineated, in a rather simplistic and naive way. Which again is part of the charm of the series for me. Sometimes I am interested in a more mature and morally complex depicition of a reality, sometimes I just want to know who is a black hat and who is a white hat.

At the risk of entering into a political debate, which I strenuously try to avoid in this context... Of course, not all individual Germans at the time of the second world war were evil- far, far, from it. However, I certainly believe the German cause in the war was evil. One of the great things about games is the choice of virtual reality they afford the player: you don't have to be conscripted and fight for a cause in which you don't believe. The gamer can pick his or her fights, as it were. So, I choose to never fly a Zero or a Tie.:san_wink: (One of my gaming regrets of the past year is that I can't bring myself to skipper one of the U Boats of SH III. It looks gorgeous. Oh well, apparently SH IV will be set in the Pacific...)

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The point I wanted to make was that something as big as the Empire can't be entirely evil. Out there in the fleet there would be plenty of people who believe in the stability of a dictatorship (there is a lot that speaks for that, you are not evil just for supporting a dictator), and who would do important jobs. Such as keeping the wars between races down and rounding up pirates. To those people who believe in stability the Rebels would merely be people who would upset their lives. Imagine growing up in peace on an Imperial world then sometime in your life you experience losing friends to those Rebels, just because they were pilots. You would not like those Rebels any bit.

Besides evil people are never evil to themselves. That is something the other side makes them. Could you ever imagine someone going out and saying "I'm evil"? And not be mental that is.
Besides George Lucas makes that point himself. That Palpatine in fact believes that he is doing good (peaceargument), but happens to be evil. The goal does NOT justify the means, is the point being made.

Indeed it is TIE = Twin Ion Engine, thus it would be QIE if it was Quad engines.
The Assault Gunboat is anything but overpowered. It is slow and like a brick in maneuvering. It's only advantage is in it's strong shields. I equate it pretty much to the Y-wing with a slight advantage in shields and hull integrety. But I liked it's looks, it just looked better than anything else. Sadly there was a problem with my mouse and the Assault Gunboat, making it twist in odd directions and so on once in a while. Not good on an attackrun on a Mon Cal cruiser.

The Missile Boat on the other hand is a most overpowered weapon and you never feel truly threatened in it. But that is the point of it, it is supposed to be cutting edge technology (taking on 50 enemy fighters is not a problem).

The Avenger (termed Advanced in the game) is a nice fighter, fast maneuverable and fairly strong shields with an acceptable payload. I think of it as a combination of an A-win and an X-wing, of the good from each.

The Defender is superb... Just superb. It isn't overpowered like the Missile Boat, but clearly just the best! You are still scared when an enemy locks onto you or you suffer hits, but usually you can beat the enemy fairly certainly. Quad lasers, dual ions, strong missiles and beam weapons, well its offensive potential is extreme in a dogfight.

But my alltime favourite fighter is the simple Interceptor. Sure the Avenger, Defender and Missile Boats are better, but the Interceptor just felt like you wore it, it was an extention of you. It was fast, maneuverable and had a powerful attack. It was lovely, and it was the fighter you flew in that scary 'hotshot' mission where you got backstabbed.
One has to love the little sideplot (which turns out to be the main plot when the Emperor comments on it to Thrawn).

TIE was indeed a grand old game. The mission where twelve corvettes are chasing a ship, and they send in you in a MIS was class - "We were told to expect reinforcements, but one fighter???", then you proceed to annihilate everything.

It's main weakness was that capital ships were more or less just targets, unimpressive and nearly defenseless. But a lot of space fighter games have had that problem.

I take it you fans are all aware of the conversion of TIE to the X-wing alliance engine? The mod requires you to have the CD versions of both, and I don't have TIE anymore so I can't test it, but I know it exists.


I prefer FS2 myself, a little more variety in weapons and capships that aren't completely crippled, but it's a matter of taste.

People actually liked the gunboat!? :jawdrop:

I hated that thing with a passion, as did the other person I knew who played the series. Loathed it. Detested it. Despised it. Why? Let me list the few dozen reasons why. It was slow. When you put shields or lasers on to charge it got even slower. It had crap lasers. It's lasers took ages to charge and lost their charge really quickly in a fight, meaning you were always in danger of leaving the supercharged level and firing piddly little weak shots. It's shields seemed to be made out of papier-mâché; they took an age or five to charge and went down in hardly any hits at all. Manoeuvrable? I can see the designers now - "We don't need to make the ship agile; the shields will keep it alive for a whole 5 hits!" Huh; in that ship I was hard pressed to dodge a brick, let alone a laser. It might have had a lot of missile space, but somehow never quite enough ... except for those many missions where I returned having used maybe 3 of them. I'm a conservative frog; I always saved my missiles for the "Argh!! I've got to kill that!? While being swarmed by these 50 fighters!?" moments. Oh, and it looked really ugly, unlike the TIE ships.

I'd rather fly anything rather than a gunboat. Every time the game loaded a mission with that thing I groaned. I killed cap ships better with the defender and avenger, because I could fire away like there was no tomorrow while dodging and manoeuvring. And yet, they always gave me this wallowing pig when they wanted cap ships killing. Gah!

I also did not like the missile boast. Same thing with rubbish shields, and I was always more of a laser frog than a missile one. However, the missile boast could be fun :dreams of the old days, of unloading super space bombs into cap ship after cap ship in an orgy of destruction:

The TIE defender was for me the perfect ship. Absolutely perfect. Not a thing about it would I have changed. And while being perfect, you were still not invulnerable or so overpowered life was easy when flying it.

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To those people who believe in stability the Rebels would merely be people who would upset their lives.

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Ah, the infamous 'it took Mussolini to get the trains to run on time' arguement. I once had a long discussion with a former Nazi (possibly not just former) who spoke at length of the great things that Hitler had achieved with the construction of the autobahns. Well, yes, but...

It is a much abused word these days, but nevertheless I do believe in democracy. I believe that the harm that dictatorships neccessarily and intentionally do to individuals always outweighs any benefits they might bring to the slight majority of their people. So I think that anybody who supports a dictatorship does at least partake in evil, though they may well not be a completely evil person. In our virtual realm I disagree with and disrespect the citizens of the Empire who would sacrifice the happiness, freedom and lives of others, just to keep their own starships running on time. As you say,

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The goal does NOT justify the means...

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Besides evil people are never evil to themselves. That is something the other side makes them.

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I think there are objective criteria for judging good and evil, so I don't think that it is just a case of propaganda or the winners writing history. To take an extreme case: the SS soldiers who murdered the men, women and children of Lidice Czechoslovakia in revenge for the assasination of Reinhard Heydrich may not have considered themselves to be evil. They may have believed that they were acting to preserve order etc., but I don't really care: I think that by any reasonable standards they were evil.

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Besides George Lucas makes that point himself. That Palpatine in fact believes that he is doing good (peaceargument), but happens to be evil. The goal does NOT justify the means, is the point being made.

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Ok, apparently Lucas tried to make things a little less black and white in the second trilogy, but I don't know anything about those films...

*sigh* Isn't this is a terrible subject to be discussing at this time of year(?)... Science fiction wars are much preferable to real ones...

Edit: Tried to take out the most boring bits....

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Originally Posted by frogbeastegg

The TIE defender was for me the perfect ship. Absolutely perfect. Not a thing about it would I have changed. And while being perfect, you were still not invulnerable or so overpowered life was easy when flying it.

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Again, that's the great thing about the game. That ship made you feel part of an elite, but still part of the whole. When flying the missile boat, it felt like recognition of you being the best and getting the most powerful ship in the galaxy.

If only more current games had such a simple yet perfect way of involving...

I despise it because of the X-wing alliance game... mostly becasue i despise all enemey craft with missles.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The worst part being the time you try to escape form the damned Rebel meidcal station as it's being attacked by the empire

some day i hope i'll learn how to dodge them.:san_embarassed:

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I've acquired Freespace 2, and am finding it (slightly) superior to Tie Fighter.

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I concur. Tie Fighter is a great space sim, but FS2 edges it out in the simulation aspect. In FS2, all ships from capital ships to fighters have a clearly defined role. The organisation, briefings et al feel more militaristic and realistic.

And... FS2 has the 242nd Suicide Kings; teh Best Squadron Evar. 242nd flies fast, agile interceptor fighters and most of the time their job is to shoot down bombs and torpedoes instead of enemy fightercraft. It's quite a rush to fly amidst bomb clusters and blast them off, all the while dodging incoming smaller missiles, anti-fighter beams, other fighters and anti-capitalship beams. Well the latter you don't exactly dodge, just try to stay out of the way... :san_grin:

The Suicide Kings! Those guys are nuts! I hate anti-bomber missions - just let me duke it out with Maras, if you please!

Don't tell me any spoilers - I'm working through the campaign now, nearing the end.

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Originally Posted by Crandaeolon

And... FS2 has the 242nd Suicide Kings; teh Best Squadron Evar. 242nd flies fast, agile interceptor fighters and most of the time their job is to shoot down bombs and torpedoes instead of enemy fightercraft. It's quite a rush to fly amidst bomb clusters and blast them off, all the while dodging incoming smaller missiles, anti-fighter beams, other fighters and anti-capitalship beams. Well the latter you don't exactly dodge, just try to stay out of the way... :san_grin:

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'Tis a great tour, with the 242nd. You'll even get to do sightseeing with Colossus :san_grin:. The CEU unit is great too, I'd wished that there were more missions with that squadron. Still, I'd say that the 70th Blue Lions are the best one (it's leet, it's yours and you get access to everything) - you can plow through entire Shivan bomber wings with an Erinyes and eight Kaysers. And, you get to fight Dragons. What's better, you even have firepower to challenge them. SOC missions though, they're the most memorable.


Alexander - at which point you are, exactly? There's plenty of surprises in the game :san_tongue:

Eight Kaysers is a waste. Freespace 2 halves the firing rate if you've got both primary banks active, so you only get the same firepower as a single quad mount. You'd be better off shoving a quad maxim in the second slot - same overall firepower with the kayser, but also have a mean anti cap-ship punch.

You know, as cool as the Erineyes was, I almost never used it. It becomes available more or less the same time as the Ares does (if you do the SOC loops), and the end missions are really more suited for the Ares then the Erineyes.

Yes, I know it's a waste, but it's still fun to do that in missions where there are no capships around, and Maxim's quite useless against fighters.

Ares is a tank. You don't practically need any power in shields with it. Christ, that thing shrugs off fighter beams! Too bad it flies like a tank, too. That's why I prefer an Erinyes, it can outmanouver bombers ;)

The_Mark: I'm trying to rescue the Aquitaine, right after we learn there are more than one Juggernaut SOB's. (:san_shocked: )

I love Diemos 'Vettes. Fav Cap ship. :san_cool:

Deimos is an absolute beauty. One can't help falling in love with it :loveg:

But, there's a new space sim that can challenge even Freespace series: Babylon 5- I've Found Her. Clicky.

Pros:
- It's free, yes, free
- Very smooth gameplay
- Beautiful graphics
- Newtonian physics
- It's Babylon 5
- Plot
- Surprisingly good voice acting for an enthusiast project

Cons:
- Hyperspace travelling, though in the new version it is much less teious as the autopilot seems to do small corrections against hyperspace currents. Or the currents have been nerfed. Either way, it's better now.
- Voice acting is, on (very) few occasions, annoying.

You seen the Battlestar Galactica mod for Freespace 2? It's free as well and looks cool.

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Originally Posted by The_Mark

But, there's a new space sim that can challenge even Freespace series: Babylon 5- I've Found Her.

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Nice one. I played that quite a few months ago, and was rather impressed. It provided plenty of fun, and I'm looking forward to an extended plot.

They've put up an update for it, the Skirmish Pack. Includes multiplayer ;)

Hey, thanks! I hadn't checked their site in ages, so I'm glad you mentioned this. ~:)

Xwing Alliance is good.
You rather need to go to http://www.darksaber.gaylenol.com/ to download the ultimate craft pack & then http://www.xwaupgrade.com/ for some updates to it

Klingon Academy is pretty good too.
Need to go to www.klingonacademy.com though there seems to be a bit less in the way of actual downloads than there used to be

Iwar is my personal favourite, its old but really awesome & is even usable with Zeckensacks glide wrapper which lets you play in glide mode with up to 1600 * 1200 res on modern equipment.
http://www.zeckensack.de/glide/index.html

Iwar 2 is also good, particularly if you like Babylon 5 in which case you need to visit http://mods.firstones.com/buda5/iwar2/index.html

The game is good on its own too & there are various other mods which are either important improvements on the base game or even entire new areas (eg http://www.torn-stars.com/ ), even a Star Wars mod still in the works.

Nexus the jupiter incident is pretty excellent :)

Have just ordered X3 yesterday & looking forward to it.

Hoom, great, great XWA links. I have got to get this game. (Sorry to repeat the question yet again in this thread, but- XWA works for you in XP, right?)

Haven't tried recently but it has in the past.
The xwing upgrade site should have some tips\info there, I seem to recall there is even a non official patch that enables higher resolutions than the default game.

Nexus: The Jupiter Incident is OK, but good luck finding anyone online... ever.

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Originally Posted by hoom

Haven't tried recently but it has in the past.

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Yes!

I cut my teeth on TIE Fighter! I remember how excited I was when my parents upgraded their computer from 4MB to 12MB of RAM and suddenly I was able to hear voices on the game! (I, too, originally played it from floppy disks. . . 5 of them if I remember correctly)

Remember those training missions in the tunnels? Those were one of the coolest things about the game. I could get a little fast, acrcade game type action if I wasn't in the mood for campaigning.

Another older game similar to TIE Fighter is Wing Commander Prophecy. The story line is cheesy in a really chep science-fiction kind of way, but the actual fighting is pretty much like TIE Fighter with better graphics. It even has its own version of the stupid friggin gunship. It has cinamatic cutscenes between all the missions, too. The guy who played Luke Skywalker is in them as the general or commodore or something.