Lifeguards bashed, Race Riots Begin.. in Australia..?

well just some local news from my side of the world, last week a lifeguard was bashed by a group of lebanese people at the famour cronulla beach in sydney, this has suddenly led to huge outbursts form the locals and suddenly everything went pear shaped...


anyway, heres some news articles

Thugs ruled the streets, and the mob sang Waltzing Matilda

December 12, 2005

Damien Murphy describes what he saw in the middle of the Cronulla violence.
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A BARE-CHESTED youth in Quiksilver boardshorts tore the headscarf off the girl's head as she slithered down the Cronulla dune seeking safety on the beach from a thousand-strong baying mob.

Up on the road, Marcus "Carcass" Butcher, 28, a builder from Penrith, wearing workboots, war-camouflage shorts and black singlet bearing the words "Mahommid was a camel f---ing faggot" raised both arms to the sky. "F--- off, Leb," he cried victoriously.

It was one last act of cowardly violence on a sad and shameful day that began as a beach party celebrating a kind of perverted nationalism that was gatecrashed by racism.

A crowd of at least 5000 - overwhelmingly under 25 - took over Cronulla's foreshore and beachside streets. Police were powerless as 200-odd ringleaders, many clutching bottles or cans of beer and smoking marijuana, led assaults on individuals and small groups of Lebanese Australians who risked an appearance during the six-hour protest.

The horde swirled after fleeing individuals, sometimes sweeping past police lines and horses, chasing a quarry who sought safety in restaurants, shops, toilet blocks and ambulances and police vehicles. Some were snatched by police, who stood against the swarm and repelled the most violent with capsicum spray.

After a local man, "Steely", had led a chant of "F--- off, Lebs", a young man demanded the megaphone and told the crowd it was "racist". A bottle arced in from the audience and shattered on his forehead. He fled "like a bleeding rabbit", someone yelled after him.

Sometimes when a victim was cornered, the mob started singing Waltzing Matilda. Advance Australia Fair was similarly employed against obstructing police, and the usually good-natured "Aussie Aussie Aussie" chant in the mouths of the Cronulla crew assumed a menacing tone.

Cronulla was possibly Australia's biggest racist protest since vigilante miners killed two Chinese at Lambing Flat in 1860.

Yesterday's violence had been brewing for months. It came to a head last weekend when some Lebanese Australian men attacked members of the North Cronulla Surf Life Saving Club after they asked the visitors to stop playing soccer because it was disturbing other beach users.

"Steely" - who did not want to identify himself "for fear the Lebs will come and shoot up my joint during the week" - said his children had been scared by Lebanese Australians coming in from the western suburbs.

"I've got a four-year-old girl and a boy who's 11, and they see these bastards come here and stand around the sea baths 'cos their women have got to swim in clothes and stuff, or they see them saying filthy things to our girls," he said. "That's not Australian. My granddad fought the Japs to see Australia safe from this sort of shit, and that's what I'm doing today."

The word went out last week that the Shire boys would not take it lying down any more. Yesterday was shaping as a giant clash if Lebanese Australians came to run the gauntlet.

Cronulla has been an iconic surf suburb since the early 1960s, when the surfboard craze hit. It has a tribal surf culture shaped by violence and substance abuse.

Its first surfing hero, Bobby Brown, died after being sliced by a beer glass in a hotel in 1967.

Cronulla was the setting for Puberty Blues, the brutal book and film about girls growing up in the surf culture. Many of its surfing heroes have had difficult lives, not the least Mark Occhiluppo, who came back from virtual career oblivion to take the world surfing title in 1999.

Cronulla has long been the scene of battles with outsiders. The early 1960s saw pitched fights between "westies" and "surfies". Then, the media portrayed them as wars between teenage subcultures, but they always had an economic if not class element to them. It was a time when the White Australia policy still existed and nobody thought it was based on racism.

Things have changed. So yesterday "Da Boys" - the Cronulla locals - turned up early, and by 10am a party atmosphere was already evident.

Two-storey apartments were bedecked in bizarre bunting ranging from Australian and Eureka flags to "Merry Christmas" signs and Bundaberg Rum polar bear cut-outs.

On the streets, Australian flags fluttered on most cars, Cold Chisel and Men At Work boomed out of stereo systems and there were patriotic T-shirts with kangaroos, swear words and puns. Beer soaked everything.

Todd Russell, a concrete pourer from one of the apartments up the road from the riot site, was among the first to arrive and was giving away sausages cooked on a barbecue on the back of his ute, "to get everyone in the mood to be a real Aussie". He had put up a sign saying "No tabouli".

He was enthusiastically handing out brochures headed "Immigration out of control" and "Your teachers are lying to you" to passers-by."Don't know what this shit is, mate. It's just stuff. I agree with it, whatever it is," Russell said. "Look, these Lebs are coming here and giving us shit and we're not going to take it any more."

Behind him, John Moffitt of the Australia First Party was smiling to himself. He had been handing out political pamphlets to some of the flag and beer can-bedecked teenagers most of the morning and they were merrily distributing them to the committed, the curious and the repulsed. "This is a great day. Australia is now seeing what the policies of the last 30 years are reaping," Moffitt said.

Paul Wilson, a local accountant who wants to start a political movement he has called Sons of Anzacs, led the mob with a couple of megaphone chants but said he was disgusted at the abuse of Lebanese immigrants.

He said the protest was really just an extension of the sorts of things Pauline Hanson was warning about when she entered national life in 1996.

"Nobody listened to her really and look what's happened. Mind you, it's a shame that it came to this. I don't agree with the racist stuff. It frightens a lot of people off but it still a true reflection of what being a real and proud Australian is to many of us. You deny that, you're mad," he said.

The crowd's first likely target was sighted just after 11am. He copped a punch from a local before fleeing to the safety of the Northies hotel sports bar, where a police line stopped the hunters in their tracks and he was whisked from the building.

Over the next six hours there were sporadic outbreaks when the mob thought it spied a Lebanese Australian intruder.

Many in the melee took photographs on mobile phones as they contacted people to join the fray or just to check out the fun. "It's a pisser," said Michael Bedford, of Sylvania. "Shire forever."

As police tramped in quick-time from flashpoint to flashpoint, many in the crowd ridiculed their efforts. "Hup, hup, hup. Left, right, left, right. Sound off - that's right, dudes, go get 'em," a group yelled in unison, before showering police with beer.

At one point, thousands rushed up the hill to the Cronulla Mall and headed for the railway station, nearly a kilometre away, where two men were taken and beaten. Sated, the crowd returned to the beachfront.

While bedlam ruled, the North Cronulla SLSC did its best to ignore the unlovely spectacle, calmly continuing with the launching ceremony of a new surfboat, the Graham "Cashy" Cachia.

Meanwhile, down the beach, the Lebanese Australian girl's three male friends were being chased through apartments as her headscarf was being born off as some sort of souvenir. At the boat ceremony, a 13-year-old boy, a nipper with the club, turned from the boat to the noise swelling from the crowd north of the clubhouse.

"Get her!" he yelled. On his bare back were the words in black felt pen: "We crew here. You flew here."

-SMH

another article, same paper

Race riots spread to suburbs

By Les Kennedy, Damien Murphy, Malcolm Brown and Tim Colquhoun
December 12, 2005

RACIAL violence erupted in several Sydney suburbs last night in retaliation for a rampage by thousands of young residents through Cronulla that turned the seaside suburb into a battlefield.

Political, community and religious leaders joined stunned locals to condemn an afternoon of violence by a crowd that turned on people of Middle Eastern appearance and those trying to protect them, with police and ambulance officers also attacked.

As the violence spread, police cars raced through Sydney streets from Cronulla to Miranda, Brighton-le-Sands, Rockdale, Maroubra, Woolooware and Tempe. Police said they had received reports of firearms being "flashed" threateningly but not discharged. "So far we have had no one shot," an officer said.

A 23-year-old man was in St George Hospital in a serious condition after a fight in Woolooware about 10.25pm. A radio report said he had a knife embedded in his back. Police said the man was with friends when he had an altercation outside a golf club with a "group of males of Mediterranean or Middle Eastern appearance".

In Brighton-le-Sands a group of people were reported to have taken down the Australian flag at the Brighton RSL Club and burnt it in the street. Youths were seen at a garage filling bottles with petrol in nearby Monterey.

Police closed Marine Parade, Maroubra, where people converged in vehicles on the beachfront and began fighting with locals including members of the Bra Boys surf gang. Police said 50 carloads of youths smashed more than 100 vehicles with baseball bats and other weapons. In the same suburb a young girl was punched in the face.

In Rockdale police gathered in riot gear following reports of youths armed with crowbars near the train station after 10pm, a car driver trying to run down a police officer, and items being thrown at police cars in Bay Street, Brighton-le-Sands. The street was blocked off.

Around North Cronulla beach and the surrounding streets, drunk teenagers communicated with each other on walkie-talkies about rumoured sightings of Lebanese gangs.

Commanders from the Bankstown and Campsie patrols were on alert amid fears of outbreaks of violence. Shortly before midnight police received reports of a convoy of up to 40 carloads of youths heading from Punchbowl Oval to the eastern suburbs.

By 12.30am today there were reports of 20 cars with men of Middle Eastern appearance at a BP petrol station in Cronulla, throwing rocks.

At least 13 people were injured during the earlier violence in Cronulla - including five police - and 12 people had been arrested last night.

The Premier, Morris Iemma, led a chorus of condemnation of the Cronulla attacks. "These hooligans have brought shame upon themselves," he said. "Some today tried to hide behind the Australian flag. The Australia that I know, and intend to preserve as Premier, does not support the sort of behaviour that we saw today."

The Police Commissioner, Ken Moroney, said the rioters - many of them carrying the flag and even singing the anthem - were "clearly un-Australian". "I'm ashamed as a man and as the Commissioner of Police," he said. "Never have I seen a mob turn like they have today, particularly on … women and … the NSW Ambulance Service. That has brought a higher level of shame to those involved."

There had "clearly … been a level of racial vilification … and those who are found to behave this way will be prosecuted".

One bashing victim, 19-year-old Mustafa, said at Sutherland Hospital: "They threw bottles, broken bottles, food, anything they could get their hands on. And what were we doing? We were there for a swim."

Another victim, who gave his name only as Moot, said: "We are going to have the last laugh. I got beaten up by 50 people. I am half Lebanese, part-Aboriginal. I am more Australian than the Anglos."

The Assistant Commissioner, Mark Goodwin, who co-ordinated the riot response, said a taskforce would review video footage.

The violence followed a week of simmering tension after an attack the previous Sunday on two lifesavers. Appeals by text message for "Aussies" to descend on the beach to reclaim it drew a crowd estimated at 5000 people, but a carnival atmosphere in the morning gave way to an ugly mood as a hard core of about 200 turned violent. Thousands chanted them on.

The trouble began with scuffles about midday. As the crowd moved along the beach and foreshore area, a man on the back of a utility began to shout "No more Lebs" - a chant picked up by the group around him. Others in the crowd yelled "Aussie, Aussie, Aussie … Oi, Oi, Oi". Members of the mob set upon their prey with fists, feet, flags and beer bottles. Two paramedics were injured as they tried to get victims out of the North Cronulla Surf Life Saving Club, where they had fled to escape the rioters. One of the women had fled into the clubhouse for safety after her headscarf was ripped off.

The crowd broke the windows of the ambulance and kicked its doors as the officers attempted to get the group out. Police, who used capsicum spray and batons in their battle to quell the rioters, were also pelted with beer bottles, and in some cases their cars were swamped and stomped on as they tried to move from one violent flare-up to the next. They sometimes appeared powerless to keep up with the moving mob.

An 18-year-old man who had ventured to the beach for a dip just before 11am was the first to be targeted. He was chased by 200 people to the Northies Hotel, where 20 bouncers joined police in holding back a crowd that swelled to several thousand.

Many people were drinking in a nearby park - some clearly underage. Late yesterday hotels and bottle shops agreed to stop takeaway alcohol sales.

One man was taken by police into Northies, which became a "safe haven". Police also set up a safe house in the North Cronulla clubhouse.

About 7.30pm a young man of Lebanese appearance, arms held out imploringly, sprinted south on a footpath towards the protective shield of the police stationed at Cronulla Beach, hotly pursued by a drunken mob numbering hundreds. He outran the mob and was saved by police, who placed him in the back of a police van, which was then surrounded by the mob.

As the van drove away, one young Caucasian girl laughed and said to a male companion: "That was sick. I've never seen a dumb Leb run so fast. How good was that?"

Earlier a man was cornered in Mitchell Street and had several bottles smashed over his head while he was punched and kicked by dozens of screaming people.

He had been walking with two other men when he was hit by a young man draped in the Australian flag. A bystander tried to stop the assault, saying "He's not a Leb, he's not a Leb".

A lone policeman came to his aid, spraying a canister of capsicum spray to try to disperse the crowd until more support arrived.

Many shopkeepers closed their doors as the crowd converged on Cronulla station. Two men who had just stepped off a train were bashed by about 50 people after they were forced against the carriage. Police said the invasion of the station appeared to have been prompted by a bogus text message saying a trainload of people was due to arrive from Bankstown.

Sarah Id, 17, and her sister Amy, 15, from Sutherland, who were both born in the area and whose parents are Lebanese immigrants, found themselves under the protection of police and transit security guards as they waited for their train while 1000 people stood opposite. The pair had gone to Cronulla Beach, as they had done most weekends as children, "just to get a tan".

"We had to get out because everyone was telling us to go home. Both girls and guys were shouting at us and a woman told us to watch our backs," Sarah said.

"They were saying, 'You don't belong here'. We were born here and went to Jannali High."

Neither the Prime Minister nor the federal Opposition Leader wanted to comment last night.

-SMH

the links

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/...235951313.html
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/...235951620.html


personally coming from the area i find the whole affair disgracful, on one hand you have the small minority who have caused trouble in the past, but now those who are coming out against those who started it are just as bad... who knows how long this will continue, but i think its absolutly shameful

http://www.smh.com.au/photogallery/2...02.html?page=3

some pics as well (none are very violent, most show the sheer numbers)

Why do they hate those lebanese so much :san_huh:

well just some quick background info on Cronulla and its attitude, its not without reason too. For the last 10 years the area has seen a large rise in lebanese and other middle eastern peoples in the area, coming from other parts of sydney to go to the beach, though with these people some few undesirables came as well, that being the gangs. so over the last 10 years theyve seen beatings and such by these gangs, and yet the locals never really united against them, the police never did much either. It had recently gotten so bad that i even refused to go to the beach there for the last 2 years, ive had several mates actually been victims of these gangs as well.

anyhow, the straw that broke the camels back was the beating of some lifeguards, and the polices inability to act, then through the week text mesages were sent calling for all locals to come join in "leb bashing day" Now my guess is most people didnt know a thng about it, but the media being who they are had to show the rest of the country the text message, and basically invited the rest to happen. It then snowballed into what you read, and my guess is this is FAR from over. If i know these gangs, they wont give up, i expect to see some horrific retaliations in the coming days, and to be honest im quite worried as to how much this could blow out. Especially with the media blowing things out even more

I am just dying to hear the words 'social exclution', or maybe 'low prospects', or even better the creme de la creme 'racism'. I thought Australia was a pretty fun place after hearing Papaweio's praise but it turns out to be a normal country after all.

I remember going to school in Paramatta for a year when I was sixteen. The tension was pretty thick between the Lebanese and Aussie kids. Fist fights were fairly frequent but I just assumed it was normal high school stuff. We later moved to Manly and it was much nicer.

My cousin who lives in Greystanes was attacked by a group of them coming out of a bar one night. There were about six of them and he ended up having to get his jaw wired. He probably mouthed off to them, but still. Six on one is pretty cowardly.

I'm starting to agree with Fragony about the difficulty of mixing cultures. You can't really blame the Lebanese for banding together, but it's a big problem when you have a large group of immigrants refusing to try to adapt with the host's culture.

When, oh when will JAG and Adrian show up and start spouting self-loathing comments about how its not the criminals fault but the fault of the society in which they are attacking? Should be soon now, lets watch...:san_rolleyes:

Riots...:san_rolleyes:

Advocating violence not allowed - Kukri

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Originally Posted by strike for the south

Riots...:san_rolleyes:

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Or why do we call them minorities when there are so many of them :san_wink:

Edited disallowed quote - Kukri

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Or why do we call them minorities when there are so many of them :san_wink:

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Hell I should start a riot Im a minorty in my city. I can see the hadline now. "White minorites start riot taco stands burned el caminos overturned":san_tongue:

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Originally Posted by strike for the south

Hell I should start a riot Im a minorty in my city. I can see the hadline now. "White minorites start riot taco stands burned el caminos overturned":san_tongue:

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Ahh patience, soon we will be minorities and we will get the spoils of affirmative action. Our evil plan has worked.

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Originally Posted by Proletariat

I'm starting to agree with Fragony about the difficulty of mixing cultures.

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You want to disband the United States? Now there is a surprise.

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Originally Posted by AdrianII

You want to disband the United States? Now there is a surprise.

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No, it works fine with us. We're as culturally vain as the next country, but ours is a unique cultural vainity that doesn't conflict quite as much with immigrant populations. Everyone who can make somebody some money is welcome here.

well, it's sad to hear about this, of course.
lots of cliches about both parts trying to adapt and live together have been said before, so I won't reiterate them. But it still seems strange to me that there's parts of the world where things work, and other parts where they don't, when it would be in everybody's best interest to try and make them work...

Racism and race riots are nothing new to Australia , you will find mindless idiots in any country .
The levels in Austalia of anti immigrant sentiment are strange though , considering that less than 2% of the population is indiginous , 23% are immigrants themselves and a further 20% are children of immigrants .

What it might be is that lebanese immigrants are something new , oh ...it cannot be that since they have been moving to Australia for nearly 130 years . Maybe it is because they don't fit in , don't contribute to Australian society and there are too many of them , oh ...it cannot be that as Australias government is extending their eligibality for migration due to the great contribution they make and is in the process of funding schools in Lebanon to encourage more of them to come over .
So that means that it must just be brainless fools suffering from too much beer and too much sun wanting to hit people because they are different .

So at the moment it is the Lebanese , it isn't the first time they have been singled out by the morons . I wonder which way their mindless cycle is going to go next , perhaps the Vietmanese again , the Jews , the Koreans , or the Aboriginals , maybe the Greeks or the Italians , the Indians , the Afghanis .
Hey racist gobshites don't mind , they can always find someone to rant on about or attack , that is the beauty of being a mindless git .

the thing is, australia always bills itself as a multidcultural society, saying we accept this culture and that culture, but the problem is just that, by saying we accept the different cultures is asking for trouble, because what most people dont understand is that in reality the mentality of people comes down to "them" and "us". What i mean is that we have the majorty in this situation seeing themselves as the "true australian" culture, and the others are diferent, and not australian, which rings true somewhat, because these other cultures DONT want to partake in the society that has existed for the last 200 years, instead they band together, exluding everyone else from thier culture, and it creates the underlying tensions that we saw erupt in the violence. I remember at school there were two groups of violent people: the lower class who lived in govt housing AND the "wogs" (greek, lebanese, egyptian etc). The thing was where the lower class guys were violent from thier backgrounds, the "wogs" were violent because to them it seemed cool. Now not all of them were violent, probably about 30-40% were, but the thing was that most trouble that got lumped on them only re-enforced thier image as thugs, and instead of trying to do otherwise they embraced it, and made it thier self image, afterall thats the image theyve been given for the last 50 years. After 10th grade most of the violent guys left, leaving those who were actually a bunch of great guys, some of my best mates are "wogs", but the thing is, that its the small minority that clinged to the violent image, and formed gangs that ruins thier image to everyone.

Anyway, all that said, one of my workmates is probably the most sterotypical greek guy, hes a riot to hang arround, but on the other side he actully agrees that people who migrate to australia should learn english, and try to be a part of the society that exists here instead of exluding themselves and creating thier own sub-cultural communities that are EXLUSIVE (reverse racism from immigrants is actually pretty rife in oz). And with that statment i AGREE 100%

Cultural/language note: the term 'wog' used by our esteemed Aussie member above, does not carry (in his culture) the negative slur connotation that exists in British english. We'll allow its use for awhile, providing it does not become 'code' for non-white people. If it does so, we'll outlaw the term.

Thanks for your attention. Back to the thread on this sensitive subject.

It sounds mostly like the result of police's failure and more importantly, unwillingness to deal with these gangs for an extended period of time.

It seems to me that it's nothing more than a white trash gang against an immigration gang. Looks cute with those bicycle cops interacting.... ~;)

just an interesting thought on the idea of "reverse racism" where the immigrant cultures maintain thier old way of life, exluding members of the nation they are now a part of because they dont share the same race. This in turn is tollerated by the established culture, but in truth its just racism in reverse

just an interesting thought on the idea of "reverse racism" where the immigrant cultures maintain thier old way of life, exluding members of the nation they are now a part of because they dont share the same race. This in turn is tollerated by the established culture, but in truth its just racism in reverse
Yep , look at some of the Irish immigrants in Sydney for a prime example .

Sounds like a surfing community that didn't want to be policed for decades, and now that they have a problem they complain of a lack of policing.

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Originally Posted by AdrianII

Sounds like a surfing community that didn't want to be policed for decades, and now that they have a problem they complain of a lack of policing.

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But of course. See AdrianII, this is what you get with indifferent police who's only job is to prevent escalation(ie doing nothing). People feel helpless, people are angry, and then there is that little spark that ignites the hidden fuel depots.
Instead of mocking the rioters, try to understand them. You did such a great job with that when mobs were torching Paris.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

But of course. See AdrianII, this is what you get with indifferent police who's only job is to prevent escalation (ie doing nothing).

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Exactly my point.

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Originally Posted by AdrianII

Exactly my point.

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Between the lines the point you make is: 'we ought to be better then them'.

How is that for racism.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Between the lines the point you make is: 'we ought to be better then them'.

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I don't understand what you mean. You probably don't understand me either.

Did you read up on the history of that beach? And on the history of Lebanese in Oz?

My point is we shouldn't let communities go without policing. The weaker they are socially, the sooner law and order break down. And when different cultures are involved, suddenly people have a tendency to go 'tribal' and blame skin for their problems. That's when the Fragonies have a field day or two. I bet you wish you were there and could join the fight -- good guys versus bad, black and white, the simpletons in control on all sides. It's a Fraggy-Frag world, eh?

just listenin to a hack of the NSW police radio, seems like its happening again, though this time its the retaliation, mainly cars being smashed up at cronulla

I'm amazed so few people were hurt. Course the whole bloody thing could have probably been avoided if the people who beat up the life guards had all been nicked in the first place. :san_sad:

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Originally Posted by AdrianII

My point is we shouldn't let communities go without policing. The weaker they are socially, the sooner law and order break down. And when different cultures are involved, suddenly people have a tendency to go 'tribal' and blame skin for their problems. That's when the Fragonies have a field day or two. I bet you wish you were there and could join the fight -- good guys versus bad, black and white, the simpletons in control on all sides. It's a Fraggy-Frag world, eh?

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I find that higly stigmatising, I better report :san_wink:

Common mia muca, you never miss an oppertunity to blaim society when it are your precious minorities, but when white people riot (be it good or bad) it must be 'like a surfing community that didn't want to be policed for decades'. Either way it is the evil white man's fault, such self loathing doesn't help anyone, especially minorities. Maybe you secretly think we are just so special that everything that is good still belongs here despite the numerous problems, and that we are even that special that we can solve it by being very western about it. These thugs do as they like because of the space collabo- I mean forward thinkers give them, nothing gets wasted in the fraggadellic universe. Now it backfires.

I bet you wish you were there and could join the fight -- good guys versus bad, black and white, the simpletons in control on all sides. It's a Fraggy-Frag world, eh?

No Adrain , in the simpletons world you get crap like this......
it's the jews that are behind this, although their plan was that the Aussies should go fighting Arabs in Iraq, not the immigrants ones.
....Courtesey of Vanguard News Network .Plenty more where that came from , but for some reason most of the racist crap posted by the fascist morons there would be errr....unsuitable for a family friendly forum .
I am sure you are not implying in any way that when Frag says that he is going out bashing immigrants that he is anything like these people are you .

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Common mia muca, you never miss an oppertunity to blaim society when it are your precious minorities, but when white people riot (be it good or bad) it must be 'like a surfing community that didn't want to be policed for decades'.

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They should have been properly policed from the beginning, that's all I am saying. If surfing champions got killed there in the course of brawls or criminal reckonings, it shows that the place had a violent history anyway, with or without Lebanese gangs. Like I said, read up on it. Now if any locals could elaborate like they did above, I will certainly listen to them. Their take seems more relevant than your racial profiling, mi dushi.

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Originally Posted by AdrianII

They should have been properly policed from the beginning, that's all I am saying.

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Ya that is pretty easy to say now, you lefties seem to think that good intentions are a quality on it's own, and when it goes wrong at least you can ravel in superior moral standards. Nobody ever acted out of fear of being labeled, by people such as, well you.

And it got out of control, I had a dream, when will I wake up :P

well like i said earlier bieng in a "multi-cultural" society only enables these problems to occur, instead of people seeing eachother as cultural equals, we instead draw lines between groups, especially ethnic groups, which somtimes end up blowing out of proportion.

This is nothing to do with white being the problem, in fact the problem has been the ethnic minority gangs that over the last 10 years have progressivly moved in on the area, and others too. Did you know that in sydney the majority of gang rapes, if not all are perpetrated by racial minorities on white australians, also that at Cronulla beach the australian women have been subject to abuse from muslim males in the area, because of thier choice in swimming costumes (ones that dont fit muslim standards).

If you want to point the finger at cause, yes, you can say its the "wogs and lebs" or you can point and say its the lack of police, or you can say its the work of neo nazis, but truth all are factors, and this is the result of years of a tollerence for other cultures within australia, it doesnt work, you cant expect to have different cultures live side by side and not have racism also in the mix, for isnt it true that to be particular of one culture is to be of that racial orientation, and also selective and exclusive against all others? why cant and aussie be chinese? it dont work!

anyway, enough ranting, i know violence doesnt solve anything, but sometimes its the only way certain people will listen. BTW im not condoning it, im merely stating a fact we all well know

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Originally Posted by Fragony

And it got out of control, I had a dream, when will I wake up :P

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Schattebosje, do you want an honest answer? When you go to another of those fun demonstrations to 'beat the shit' out of immigrants and you accidentally kill someone. That's when you will wake up.

found a good article starting to explain the "why" behind what we saw happen, and what is happening


An angry ride into the dark side of mateship
By Damien Murphy
December 13, 2005

BARRY HUMPHRIES once defined being Australian as hating people from anywhere else. It is perhaps a good starting point for what happened at Cronulla on Sunday.

Sydney has long been Australia's most divided city.

Those who live in the eastern suburbs rarely venture beyond the CBD if they can help it. Those from the northern beaches think they have found nirvana, the North Shore knows it has, and the western suburbs take pride in their mostly hardscrabble existence.

Most Sydneysiders would not live anywhere else, unless a Lotto win impelled them, and think it onerous to visit friends or relations in other suburbs. Many also do not like strangers. Some play upon that dislike.

"At Cronulla, there's John Howard dog-whistling on immigration, Bob Carr singling out the ethnicity of rapists, and the anti-terror laws," said Amanda Wise, of Macquarie University's Centre for Research on Social Inclusion.

"As a result, Lebanese Australians are demonised. It seems as if our political leaders do not want to take a stand on principle for fear of losing votes or not attracting votes, so it becomes easier for ordinary people to speak out against a particular ethnic group ... you end up with a riot at Cronulla."

It is not quite thinking globally while acting locally, but most of the 10,000 who gathered on the Cronulla foreshore had been unconsciously affected by the stream of negative stories from the Middle East and Bali. It coloured their own experiences of seeing young Lebanese Australians daring to treat their beach like they owned it.

Sutherland Shire, nearly surrounded by water, is one of Sydney's most whitebread areas. It has a strong Anglo-Celtic population that enjoys a White Australia lifestyle trammelled only by the occasional visitor from across Tom Uglys Bridge, Blacktown and beyond.

Jennifer Cornwall, who is writing a municipal history of the shire, said Sunday's riot was part of a continuing problem fanned by the rise of Pauline Hanson, Tampa and terrorists. "Now they're fighting the 'Lebs', as they call them, but I have a 1974 report by the council on problems between locals and so-called 'wogs' that talks about parochialism and racism," she said. "Before that, the locals fought the 'Bankies'. Really, it's partly about protecting your territory from outsiders and sticking with your mates."

Sunday's images of young mates, full of alcohol, beating up a luckless few while the sun shone and the surf rolled into was a trip into the dark side of the Australian Dream.

Once the beach epitomised egalitarian Australia and was an integral apart of the national character. The surf took no notice of class, wealth, religion or politics, and the wearing of swimmers was always a great leveller.

They played beach cricket at Gallipoli, On the Beach was a book and film about the end of the world, and in Freshwater there is a statue of a Hawaiian, Duke Kahanamoku, the man who introduced surfboarding to Australia in 1913, seven years after Australia established surf life saving clubs.

The clubs took off after World War I, entrenching a military and alpha male ethos that lingered on Australian beaches until the arrival of short balsa and foam surfboards in the 1950s gave puny men who once had sand kicked in their face the chance to stand tall on the waves. It was no accident that Australia's first surf god was called Midget.

While the surf lifesavers visited other beaches for friendly competitions with rival clubs, surfing was and is about the individual. A wave to oneself is primal and as surf breaks are in limited supply around Sydney, the only way to get one is to have your mates run interference for the favour returned.

The tactic is called "localism", and it changed the Australian surf beach into a place where violence ruled.

Beaches at North Narrabeen, North Steyne, Maroubra and Cronulla are notoriously tribal, and although few have gone as far as emblazoning "Locals Only" - as residents did at The Pass in Byron Bay in the 1970s - visitors are hassled in the water, car parks and on the beach.

Clifton Evers, a lecturer in gender studies at the University of Sydney, said the dominant male ego was a highly regarded part of surf culture and the Cronulla riot was an attempt to maintain ownership of the beach.

He dismissed the attack on the North Cronulla lifesavers as the trigger for Sunday's melee, saying the surf culture and the lifesaving movement were often at loggerheads over the use of waves and there was little love lost between both groups.

"The SLSC movement and surfing is a male world grown out of control. Listening to the guys' chants on Sunday, it's clear the protest was an inversion of victimhood," Dr Evers said.

"They kept saying: 'Our world is under attack, our woman need defending, our way of life was under attack.' Of course, nothing of the sort was going on. The whole thing is an attempt to shore up the privileges they enjoy as gatekeepers of the beach culture."

Dr Evers thought that what perhaps the riot displayed most was the power of mateship.

"Most of those guys wouldn't have had a clue. They could be wound up by all the fascist groups in the world and wouldn't know. But they could have been there because one of their mates reckons the outsiders [needed] to be taught a lesson," he said. "And, you know, all those young blokes driving to the beach suburbs in their cars from the western suburbs to fight are being driven by the same thing - mateship.

"You hate who your mates hate. In Australia, mateship is stronger than racism."

-SMH


thats actually a good point they raise about our culture, mateship is thicker than blood, especially when there is a common enemy. Look at how australia unites when it comes to sporting events internationally (Ashes Series, Bledislow Cup), and yet divides horribly when it comes to national events (State of Orrigin).

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Originally Posted by AdrianII

Schattebosje, do you want an honest answer? When you go to another of those fun demonstrations to 'beat the shit' out of immigrants and you accidentally kill someone. That's when you will wake up.

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Beat the shit out of rioters(that had absolutely no reason to riot), there is a difference. I'd rather have you comment on this, 'you lefties seem to think that good intentions are a quality on it's own, and when it goes wrong at least you can ravel in superior moral standards'.

Because that is the problem, you lefties never take responsibility for faillure, in the name of 'wouldn't it be super' anything and anyone that isn't part of the stepherd wives community is wrong. And when it doesn't work, oh well we meant well, I cannot wait for the studies, quite a fascinating civil war.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

I cannot wait for the studies, quite a fascinating civil war.

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Sweetie, Alrowan just posted some things about the ongoing tribal wars in the area since at least the 1970's.

Beaches at North Narrabeen, North Steyne, Maroubra and Cronulla are notoriously tribal, and although few have gone as far as emblazoning "Locals Only" - as residents did at The Pass in Byron Bay in the 1970s - visitors are hassled in the water, car parks and on the beach.

I believe the all-white 'Bra Boys' haven't been all that nice either, they have two decades of attacking Asians and other outsiders as well as female police officers behind them, and their founder has just been locked away for murder. Oh look, and the first study is in:

Jennifer Cornwall, who is writing a municipal history of the shire, said Sunday's riot was part of a continuing problem fanned by the rise of Pauline Hanson, Tampa and terrorists. "Now they're fighting the 'Lebs', as they call them, but I have a 1974 report by the council on problems between locals and so-called 'wogs' that talks about parochialism and racism," she said. "Before that, the locals fought the 'Bankies'. Really, it's partly about protecting your territory from outsiders and sticking with your mates."

For me the thing about Australian mateship is the most interesting piece of info so far. Thanks Alrowan. :bow:

mateship?

Sounds identically like one of the aspects the beduin tribals have here, which is a pretty big problem right now.

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Originally Posted by AdrianII

Sweetie, Alrowan just posted some things about the ongoing tribal wars in the area since at least the 1970's.

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Ain't it great to have a handle, I like to mention bra's as well go figure, especially when they are not holding their territory. All you say is whitey's do it too. AdrianII, do you really think that such a violent response comes out of thin air? I am sure the bra's justify a compulsor- I mean honourable mention but aren't you just excusing?

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Ain't it great to have a handle, I like to mention bra's as well go figure, especially when they are not holding their territory. All you say is whitey's do it too.

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I'm saying the area obviously has a history of violence. Often such violence becomes an issue only after other than white people start doing it. Or are you telling me these hordes of rioters are law-abiding citizens, uniquely concerned with upholding public order? Ha! They are part of the problem and always have been, mi caro.

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Originally Posted by AdrianII

I'm saying the area obviously has a history of violence. Often such violence becomes an issue only after other than white people start doing it. Or are you telling me these hordes of rioters are law-abiding citizens, uniquely concerned with upholding public order? Ha! They are part of the problem and always have been, mi caro.

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Yes I do, well I think they are, and I think they got fed up with it. I took a little peek at crime statistics in Australia, and I feel right at home allready. Intimidation of white girls that just want to get some sun, gangrape, robbery and the occasional manslaughter, and most recently the beating up of some lifeguards. If you keep knocking on the devils door long enough he may just one day open it, if you don't want that to happen don't knock. These guys have been pressing their luck for too long, and now they have their response. I don't feel sorry for them at all since this will all be over in a day or 2, I hope the politicians will wise up and spend some time reflecting on what has just happened.

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Originally Posted by Tribesman

No Adrain , in the simpletons world you get crap like this......
it's the jews that are behind this, although their plan was that the Aussies should go fighting Arabs in Iraq, not the immigrants ones.

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Mr President, I admire your unfailing one-downmanship when it comes to the rest of humanity. :bow:

Here's to you. https://img519.imageshack.us/img519/...rechaun5ek.gif

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Originally Posted by Fragony

I took a little peek at crime statistics in Australia (..)

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Yay! I had been hoping for this, and President Tribesmen too I reckon. Fragony and statistics, never the twain shall meet.

Awaiting your expert aggregated factor analysis with baited beath, I remain

AdrianII :mellow:

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Originally Posted by AdrianII

Yay! I had been hoping for this, and President Tribesmen too I reckon. Fragony and statistics, never the twain shall meet.

Awaiting your expert aggregated factor analysis with baited beath, I remain

AdrianII :mellow:

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Well you allready seem to have a problem with interpetating the dutch ones, so I don't really want to bother you with the exact opposite of the world. President Tribesman is on ignore after our last converstation so maybe you can put your journalistic qualities to use by informing him as well.

still love you of course :san_wink:

huh? I didn't post this, wtf is going on?

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huh? I didn't post this, wtf is going on

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Maybe:

The first post was evil Mr Frag instead of good Dr Frag? (The "Stephenson" option)

The second post was Magritte? (the surreal option) or

The Frag personality has somehow imprinted itself on the Internet and is posting on its own account (the Gibson option, definitely the scariest)

C'est ne pas un problem! Heck I dunno, all arab stuff on screen, guess I will have to hold onto my head :san_grin:

President Tribesman is on ignore :san_laugh: :san_laugh: :san_laugh:


Yay! I had been hoping for this, and President Tribesmen too I reckon. Fragony and statistics, never the twain shall meet.

Well we have already seen that Frags interpretation of dutch statistics is way off , so far off that he used made up stories from neo-nazi publications to try and make his point instead .
So after such a failure on his own door step it should be fun , especially as the way the Australian governments(federal and state) compiles its statistics means you have to wade through many dozens of pages on crime statistics and reports before you finally get the relevant information .
And what do they show about ethnicity of the crimimals and who is committing what crimes ~D ~D ~D Especially against those poor white women that he seems so concerned about :jawdrop:
Thats it , deport the whitey they are criminal scum~;)
Oh but deport the natives as well as they have even worse statistics than the good old "white" Australians.
So perhaps he didn't use the Australian government/police/judicial or legal association statistics , there are other groups in Australia who put out very different "statistics" , can you guess who these groups might be :san_wink:

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Well, you already seem to have a problem interpreting the Dutch ones, so I don't really want to bother you with the exact opposite of the world.

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So you are not sharing your revealing statistics? Bummer, I was looking forward to the 'exact opposite' of what it isn't that you aren't saying.

"My, what bell curves, Doctor!" :san_cool:

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Originally Posted by Fragony

President Tribesman is on ignore after our last conversation so maybe you can put your journalistic qualities to use by informing him as well.

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Look, I had a hard time talking him out of suicide after you put him on ignore. It's early days and he is hanging on by a thin thread, so let's leave the subject alone for now, shall we?

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Originally Posted by Fragony

still love you of course :san_wink:

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I know sweetie, I know, but we have to stop meeting this way.

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Originally Posted by Tribesman

(..) the way the Australian governments (federal and state) compiles its statistics means you have to wade through many dozens of pages on crime statistics and reports before you finally get the relevant information.

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Didn't it strike you as odd, Mr President, that around 2002 the words 'rugby culture' in Australian rape reports were suddenly replaced by 'Lebanese culture'?

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Originally Posted by Tribesmen

(..) there are other groups in Australia who put out very different "statistics", can you guess who these groups might be :san_wink:

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You mean the numbers put out by women's groups that show 60% of rapes takes place in the victims own home and 81% of rapes is committed by a close friend or relative of the victim?

You don't? Oh, you mean those groups?

Well now, who in his right mind would take them seriously... :san_huh:

I lived in Sydney in the early 80's and there were then regular fights between Lebanese 'Christians' and 'Muslims'. I wondered then why they brought their violence from Lebanon (which was then in Civil War), to Australia. Maybe some Lebanese are inherently violent, and these then form gangs.

Could a lot of this recent tension be caused by an increased fear level instilled by the government. The recent home-grown terrorists (London Bombings, Australian Arrests), would have increased the level of fear of non-white groups, and in particular muslims.

It really is quite sad, that the "War on Terrorism" is now dividing the world into hostile separate groups, even within nations.

Didn't it strike you as odd, Mr President, that around 2002 the words 'rugby culture' in Australian rape reports were suddenly replaced by 'Lebanese culture'?
That strange Adrian as it seems to mirror the change that occured blaming Iraqis and Afghanis at the same time , give it a couple of months and it will be the Iranians .
And whoda thunk it in the late40s early 50s it was the Jews doing all this gang raping , then the Italians , the Greeks , Koreans, Vietmanese , now its the Lebanese .
Yet it is strange that none of the evidence has ever backed up any of these allegtions . Still there are always gullible fools who will believe any sort of nonsense .
BTW have you visited the VNN forum where I took that earlier quote from ?there are pages of the crap already on this "victory for White power" topic ...sad isn't it .

Could a lot of this recent tension be caused by an increased fear level instilled by the government.
Yep ,... nail ... hammer ....head ...you hit it Kiwitt , yet another small victory to the terrorists .:shrug:

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Originally Posted by Tribesman

BTW have you visited the VNN forum where I took that earlier quote from?

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In fact I did. But when I hit on the ad for the 'awesome nazi wallpaper' I realised I could never put up a link to their site on an .org forum.
I guess poor Fragony runs into this problem all the time.
:san_cool:

well it is in a way a culture clash, but in-directly, heres the best way i can sum up one of the causes


australian women, and locals at cronulla regulary get spat on, touched inaproprietly, and abused by young middle eastern men, this is a direct result of two huge cultural differences, that comes down to how to treat women. The only way some middle eastern men can respect women is if they wear all the muslim gear, and cover up. Because the aussie women arent, they are subject to dis-respect and abuse. Now tell me, which man will stand by while thier women get harrassed?
my point is, that a simple religeous difference, can affect culture in such a way as to see one group defending thier own, leading to retaliation from the other side. After thinking about this, i will make a bold statment by saying muslim culture has no place in australian beach culture, as they are contradictory!

I've been reading Aussie newspapers lately and have noticed that the Lebanese like to distinguish between the "Australians"(all non-Arab Australians) and "us" (Arabs in general it seems according to some quotes).

But this doesn't happen anywhere else in the world? News flash, bud - the immigrant women are treated just as badly by the non-immigrants.

if that was directed at me, I'd like to point out that there have been Arabs in Australia a long long time, many of them (Edit: not sure how many to be honest) aren't exactly migrants.

No, mang, it was directed at Alrowan. You beat me to the post, is all.

NG, I'd have to say that I do believe Alrowan probably speaks for more people than you do in this situation though.

oh, and another thing, is this just a Lebanese thing, a Lebanese Muslim thing, a general Muslim thing or what that's involved in all of this?

Edit: I mean are Christian Arabs involved in this (most Australian Lebanese are Christian, I think Australian Iraqis tend to be Christian too)?

What about the Lebanese Christians in Australia , are they all alledgedly gang rapists as well , or is it just alledgedly Muslims ?
How can the average drunk be sure that he is bashing an evil Muslim instead of an honourable Christian .
The government must take action , time to get them to sew the old crescent onto their clothes I think .
edit to add . damn you taffy , you beat me to it .

Tribesman,

No, I was talking about the "them" and "us" mentality.
Now then, Australian papers I read clearly showed that this was held on both sides. However, head scarves, mosques etc. getting mentioned in these stories makes it sound like a Muslim thing. I was just wondering whether the non-Muslim Arabs were involved in the trouble too.

Is it a race thing or a religious thing that the non-Aussie Aussies (as those quoted seem to see themselves) have an issue with with the Aussies?
or is it a mixture of both (as I reckon it probably is on the "Aussie" side).

Edit: bah, I thought you were having a go at me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alrowan

After thinking about this, i will make a bold statment by saying muslim culture has no place in australian beach culture, as they are contradictory!

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We have had similar problems in urban public swimming pools in The Netherlands. It is not the 'traditionalist' first generation, but some of the second and third generation boys that cause trouble. They are torn between two cultures, they dress like the late Tupac Shakur and act like Eddy Murphy on speed. Increased policing worked, the worst characters were arrested and given restraining orders and such. Nearly all of the trouble is over now. But hang on -- what worked best of all was to have those pools patrolled by some of the best-behaved Arab kids, paid and all, dressed in a uniform (of the 'Stadswacht' or 'Urban Guard' as we call it) and under constant police supervision. They know what their peers are up to, they know how to dissuade them, and how to suppress any problems quickly if need be. In a sense they were teaching each other, and thereby themselves, how to behave in a situation their parents hadn't exactly prepared them for.

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Originally Posted by Taffy_is_a_Taff

NG, I'd have to say that I do believe Alrowan probably speaks for more people than you do in this situation though.

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I'm speaking for myself.

"believe the all-white 'Bra Boys' haven't been all that nice either,"

Brah boys isn't even near all white...

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the thing is, australia always bills itself as a multidcultural society, saying we accept this culture and that culture, but the problem is just that, by saying we accept the different cultures is asking for trouble, because what most people dont understand is that in reality the mentality of people comes down to "them" and "us".

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Isnt it strange that here in the US where the rest of the world thinks of us as racists this doesnt happen. Why? Because we actually do assimilate other cultures and make them part of America. Not only do they become americans but we adopt certain parts of their culture. Again much like Rome. We have so many different peples and races here in New York City that you dont even look twice at most people or think their strange.


I cant wait. Westside Story is on again thursday night. It pretty much tells the story of how this sort of thing happens. And its the best musical of all time.:san_rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny

Isnt it strange that here in the US where the rest of the world thinks of us as racists this doesnt happen.

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Never. Happens. Here.

Mariamariamariaaaaaaaa! :san_tongue:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny

Isnt it strange that here in the US where the rest of the world thinks of us as racists this doesnt happen. Why? Because we actually do assimilate other cultures and make them part of America. Not only do they become americans but we adopt certain parts of their culture. Again much like Rome. We have so many different peples and races here in New York City that you dont even look twice at most people or think their strange.

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That's a joke, right?

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Originally Posted by Ja'chyra

That's a joke, right?

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Lalalala, Gawain doesn't hear you! Mariamariamariaaa!! :san_lipsrsealed:

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Originally Posted by Efrem

"believe the all-white 'Bra Boys' haven't been all that nice either,"

Brah boys isn't even near all white...

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I know, yesterday Koby even claimed that they have a few Lebanese members, but boy, the lot of them do sound white, smell white, and look white on a beach... They have a history of attacking, stabbing, robbing and even killing Orientals.

One example among many that got coverage: on April 14th, 2003, Chinese shopkeeper Wei Xu was confronted by a violent shop invasion of ten Maroubra youths who trashed his shop. His wife was dragged outside and knocked unconscious and later had to be taken to hospital with severe bruisings. The son was struck on the head with a wooden mallet. The father detained the gang leader but was asked to release him when the police arrived. The next day afternoon the son was again bashed over the head with a chair by the gang leader. The Chinese boy was returning from a University exam he couldn't cancel. When Mr Xu went to his son's rescue he was kicked unconscious by a dozen youths. The mother ran down to protect her husband's head and she was beaten unconscious for the second time. The whole family was hospitalised.

What the hell were the police doing these two days? And why is any one surprised that when such behaviour is left unchecked for years, and possibly decades, outsiders come in and want a piece of the action?

The Brah boys beat up the police and get away with it due to corruption.

but wtf is your point with that? Beating up asians doens't make them white? What you're suggesting that is awefully racist My freind.

They aren't a white gang they are a mourabrah gang.

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Originally Posted by Efrem

The Brah boys beat up the police and get away with it due to corruption.

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Is that so? Where do they get the money for it? From drug trafficking?

Quote:

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Beating up asians doens't make them white?

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I never said that, did I? I said they look white, smell white and sound white. And they have a history of attacking and robbing Asians. The former does not follow from the latter. Now, wtf is your own point? That this sort of behaviour is OK as long as it is the locals doing it?

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Originally Posted by AdrianII

Now, wtf(you naughty) is your own point? That this sort of behaviour is OK as long as it is the locals doing it?

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Or the other way around with some people.

so you are in the netherlands yet you seem to know the racial make up of Australian Gangs very well? and to prove your point you bring up an article of them attacking asians..

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Originally Posted by Efrem

so you are in the netherlands yet you seem to know the racial make up of Australian Gangs very well? and to prove your point you bring up an article of them attacking asians..

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Oh for Pete's sake, read what I said. I brought up the story as an example of local gangland culture in the all-white Shire. Never mind the occasional native, black or Chinese gang member. Seems like Cronulla could use some zero-telorance policing no matter who 'got there first'.

But now you are telling me the police don't act because they are corrupt. That is news for me. Can you elaborate?

not very famous case from back in 2002. A group of 60 Brah boys absolutly destroyed a group of 40 off duty policemen in a mass fight they got. One blinded a police officer and got a $200 fine. Today the Brah boys had a press conference... Its almost community group rather than gang. And it certainly isn't all white. or at all racially based.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Efrem

Its almost community group rather than gang. And it certainly isn't all white. or at all racially based.

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I don't know. Beating up police officers doesn't sound like a community effort to me. Are you sure this isn't Koby and a few others putting an acceptable face on things and distancing themselves from the rioters to save their cosy advertising contracts? When gangs start claiming they support the established order (and the Bra Boys to do just that) they usually have some vested interests. And if their crimes are met with riduculously low fines they usually have some friends in the police with similar interests. You following my fine white line?

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Originally Posted by AdrianII

But now you are telling me the police don't act because they are corrupt. That is news for me. Can you elaborate?

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by AdrianII

When gangs start claiming they support the established order (and the Bra Boys to do just that) they usually have some vested interests. And if their crimes are met with riduculously low fines they usually have some friends in the police with similar interests. You following my fine white line?

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You are a 'do it yourselve kind of person' huh :san_laugh: