Eeeeh feedback for open beta here?

Hello Khelvan

Here is my story again from the other forum plus some minor adjustments:


Reply | Edit New Post First play experience Hello Khelvan,

First of congrats on the release. It looks good. Now oyu asked fo playtesting. I don't have unlimited amounts of time but i will try to play some everyday. Untill now i haven't experienced any CTD. (Ok played only ten turns or so but still).
You said it wasn't finished yet but that we had to search for bugs. I don't really know you're criteria for what is a bug or just something that is'nt finished yet. I will write down anything i come across. It will slowly become apparent what you consider bugs and what is just unfinished.
Everything i say is IMHO and not intentionally meant to debase or patronize the makers of the mod. On the contrary its meant to help. :D Here goes:

When i exited the game i got this message:
Generic Error:
Database_Table found unrecognized record id roman medium cavalry reqeusted

For the rest so far:
Roman slingers make archer sound
Roman leves miss 'abilities at a glance'
Equites have a peasant picture at the unit description (not in battle card)
There is a camel standing in the lake near the caspian sea
The romans have greek voices (apart from the general)
Lot of buildings miss descriptions (guess thats unfinished :\ )
Everything is really expensive (intentionally?)
The financial scroll containsvery different info than it is in the game.
Wonders are missing (intentionally?)
The campaign map overall looks really good although a bit 'messy' if you pardon the expression. Just a tad chaotic with all the trees everywhere.
My FL got the bored attribute when he was being gevernor for 4 turns. If this is related isn't that a bit harsh? He lost a point on every skill for.....doing nothing.
I played only wth the romans so far
Oh yeah there is an adui dude standing near Massila. ALthough the adui have towns in Cisalpine gaul he's quite far away from it and surrounded by avernis towns. Just wondering if he should be standing there.
The custom battle section is a bit messed up. AL the factions can selct almost al (of each others) units. It needs a bit tidying up
The roman faction leader has princeps as title. This looks (and is ) cool but not very appropiate. The titel princeps wasn't used till Augustus

Besides al this it looks good it played smooth. Loading is long but thats to be expected.

I'm glad its here and the way i see it most of the mod is still a question of having to be finished and not so much tweaking.
Good luck and i hope my remarks are useful:cheerleader:

What title would be best for the roman faction leader? Even though this guy isn't the emperor, the word princeps was around much earlier than Augustus and was used to refer to the 'first' man (I know it's hard to put the later use by Augustus out of mind, but for 272 it seems like the most appropriate description for a man who is the leader of the state - and we can't use a magistrate's title since those change yearly).

A great mod so far, playing as Rome very enjoyable apart from fighting those naked fellas. They are annoying me beyond all endurance and just won't die! But apart from that very good indeed

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Originally Posted by King of the dutch

My FL got the bored attribute when he was being gevernor for 4 turns. If this is related isn't that a bit harsh? He lost a point on every skill for.....doing nothing.

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That's kinda the point: he's done nothing but be couped up in a settlement. Is it any wonder that he's so bored? Try doing something with him: go fight a battle or just take the poor fellow for a walk!

Yeah, the bored isn't permanent. It just lets you know what he's like right now - and it *could* lead to trouble though if you let it go for a while. There are tons of little things like this - temporary traits and such.

Seriously guys, pay attention to the traits and read up on them. They are absolutely wonderful!

Equites have a peasant picture at the unit description (not in battle card)
Unit and Info cards will be added soon I think. There are still a few units that miss them

Lot of buildings miss descriptions (guess thats unfinished :\ )
Yeah, and if you're willing to help, you're welcome. EB team is looking for people with a good historical knowledge, willing to write building descriptions for each faction.

Everything is really expensive (intentionally?)
It is. Balancing your economy is the main aim in the early game (and even later on). Do not expect to earn thousands of $$ after 20 turns or so.
I'm currently playing with the Casse, and I have to disband my (not so huge) army after each war, so I can build in my settlements (and I'm in 259) :winkg:

The financial scroll containsvery different info than it is in the game.
That's because the AI (and perhaps the player aswell, though I don't think so) sometime get extra money so he may compete with the human player. At the first turn, a script reduce the player starting money. :gring:

Wonders are missing (intentionally?)
No wonders models on the campaign map anymore, though there are in fact much more wonders than in vanilla RTW (hint : have a look at some special buildings)

The custom battle section is a bit messed up. AL the factions can selct almost al (of each others) units.

I think this is being worked on.

LOL, I know what you mean about the naked Gaesastae or whatever, I sent a bunch of rycalware against them expecting them to have a strong charge and then collapse like the naked fanastics of old, but dammit I must have killed about 4 of them before my units routed. They are rather tough. 2HP's?

Anyway, my own bug report. I'v been playing as the Casse mostly so far.

(Im sure the EB team already knows this) The briton chariots are still same old RTW chariots.
Arvernii general is a roman general
I'v had a few CTDs, but they mostly happen during the end of turn period when all the other factions are moving- so I'm afraid I can't help you with their cause. The last one happened in 250BC and it seems to happen every time. I can't get past that point.
I disagree with the first poster that almost all the units are available for all the factions. That isnt true, but there are some strange anomalies - caledonians recruitable by the yuezhi or w/e, and sarmatians available to the Casse. Someone should go over them a bit for the next version


Anyway, with that out of the way, the mod is incredible! I'm not sure what it is but it just has so much more atmosphere and personality than any other version of RTW I'v played. A lot of things pass me by because I tend to play quite fast, but somehow when you know theres a whole world f personality and information under the surface (which their is) It's so much easier to get sucked in than when you know theres nothing below the surface.

I'm also really impressed with the custom battle maps, I remember specifically asking for more battle maps, but this is more than I ever imagined, theres hundreds, which is awesome.

Thank you so much for all the work you've put in guys, it's really paid off, and I know EB's only gonna get better and better from here :happyg:

Gotta say grats to EB for being the first mod ive ever seen to have a successful open beta, with good feedback from the masses of new testers its been opened too.

well i only played 3 hours or so, loading times are a pain for me and in this time i only did 10 battles

i had no CTD, i found lot of missing unit cards replaced by peasant card ( i suppose this is WIP) and some WIP too unit descripcion

the ambience, the skins, the new music, the new animations, the new siege/ships graphics at the campaing are very innovative and cool


the battles: i find em a little more long, but still unexplicable routings
i.e. my general was in the best gaul (sorry i dont know the new names) foot unit, with some caetratis and 1 horse archer
the enemy were 4 or 5 random units
the total cost for both was 9.000-10.000 mai, the scale was large and the general routed with 65 guys and still 1 unit fighting and the archer unit running to flank the enemy:/


in the other side, with my vanilla rtw mentality, i attacked some rebels with a medium army hoping no problems but... I GOT POWNED EASILY! i play on m/m but the enemy cavalry sourrounded me like never before, i didnt care about cavalry as i never did in rtw campaing and got kicked in the ass... what did you do so to make the AI fight better??




a little mistake i was roman and the text tell GREEK and the image looks like the bodyguard is greek too

https://img413.imageshack.us/img413/6103/bug4ua.jpg

I played the Aedui and some things seemed weird :

I had no kids and then no new general for 5 hours of game (i'd say 30 or 40 game turns.) Have i done something wrong with the scripts ?

The aedui general bodyguard unit does not stand its ground against a leuce epos unit. This is more about game balance than bugs though.

Game balance again : i appreciate the hard style of gameplay but i think the aedui are really a bit too hard when it comes to economy.

The game has a good stability.

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Originally Posted by Fenrhyl

I played the Aedui and some things seemed weird :

I had no kids and then no new general for 5 hours of game (i'd say 30 or 40 game turns.) Have i done something wrong with the scripts ?

The aedui general bodyguard unit does not stand its ground against a leuce epos unit. This is more about game balance than bugs though.

Game balance again : i appreciate the hard style of gameplay but i think the aedui are really a bit too hard when it comes to economy.

The game has a good stability.

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About children; no, this is absolutely normal if you are not expanding much. The Aedui almost (or maybe not at all) never have children (they were a kind of republic with elected magistrates; there were no 'royal families', but rather a collection of magistrates and high ranking kings who made up the republic, and their retainers, not their family). The Aedui need to rely on 'man of the hour' for the most part, and something else I think.

Also, I don't believe any faction is 'too hard' when it comes to the economy. You just have to realize how they actually worked the economy. Celts didn't keep big standing armies around; most people didn't. It's too expensive. Disband every unit that you are not using to attack or defend with. Excess units should be culled to save money. You cannot afford many large armies or navies. That's the idea; that's really how they worked. The economy is supposed to be difficult. That was always one of the greatest problems of any kingdom or empire; keeping the treasury in the black.

Thank you for the advices, the aedui seem to be a complex faction to play if one must rely ont the "man of the hour" trait to have generals. I'll modify my strategy.

We try to have each faction be somewhat unique in such respects, with different ways they play in battle or in the campaign. The Aedui and Arverni, for example, are different in the campaign, but since they recruit an almost totally identical pool of units, the same in battle (each has one unit the other can't get because they were very specific to their individual governments).

Disbanding fleets and armies is a must for early game barbarians. You should also try starve out an army as much as possible. It takes time, placing and lifting seiges, but it's worth it.

Trading between factions is a must and so is high taxes. THe feeling you get after 30 turns or so is a good one. When you finally start getting money, you feel like you really earned it.

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Originally Posted by Greek_fire19

LOL, I know what you mean about the naked Gaesastae or whatever, I sent a bunch of rycalware against them expecting them to have a strong charge and then collapse like the naked fanastics of old, but dammit I must have killed about 4 of them before my units routed. They are rather tough. 2HP's?

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When you're fighting an army with a family member, they get scripted command star boosts. Hence it feels like they never die. At least it's the case with rebel armies.

Hello again

I haven't played since yesterday but i will give it another go later today. The bored thing i get. Cool that it is a temporarely trait. As for a title for the faction leader i am at a lost. The romans didn't have one. Maybe something like representative of the senate or something. I was unaware that the title princeps was used before augustus so maybe thats not so bad. Another option would be pater familias meaning head of the family. Since the romans didn't have one leader but lots of aristocratic family heads. You'll be playing one of them then. I'll get back with more feedback. I will also look at what builidings i could provide descriptions for.

greetz kotd:ave:

just one thing I'm wondering about, is there a lod issue? Because when I zoom out and have lots of units on my screen, things starts to lag a little bit. nothing serious though (and could just be my computer)

"Weird thing" report

The map on the faction selection screen shows both the aedui and the arverni possessing the Tolosa region in their starting positions. Neither of those factions have it in game.

PS : i went full frontal with the aedui. I gathered the troops and crushed gergovia, viennos, cenabum ans massalia. It gave me some money. The key here is to wipe out the ennemy before he gathers. Then its a piece of cake. Takes 10 turns though, so my debts were rocketing to the sky and it took me 15 turns to compensate for them.

Spot on about the money, chaps! Makes for an interesting game.

Started as the Koinon Hellenon, and as per the game guide, disbanded my fleet in the first turn. However, with a spy on Kydonia, I was able to asses the enemy strength; not good. So, before I sent my sailors home, I had them bring my family member back to the mainland.

Makedonia had a big stack in Korinthos. What's one to do in that situation? Why, attack! Tough fight; they had a unit of Hippeis Thessalikoi and Hetairoi, and they really did a number on my Taxeis Hoplitai.

One thing I've noticed is the huge amount of bodyguards. My faction leader (forgot the name, sorry) has a 55-unit bodyguard! The man routs armies by himself!

I love the new trait system; it's a lot to take in at once. It's a lot more dynamic than anything else I've seen. Your guy getting "Bored"? Send 'em outta town on a pointless errand. Starting to "Like Easy Battles"? Stop stacking your army with overwhelming force!

Since I rotate my family members around every year or so, we're all members of some secret "mystery" on account of being stationed in Korinthos for a while.

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Originally Posted by Mujalumbo

Since I rotate my family members around every year or so, we're all members of some secret "mystery" on account of being stationed in Korinthos for a while.

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Not surprising. Most Greeks in Athens certainly but a large majority in Korinth too probably were initiates into the Eleusinian mysteries.

Maybe we should have a new big penalty if your guy is admitted into the mysteries and then also has the 'talker' trait! He could get a -10 influence if a random chance happens and he 'blabs' the secrets. :grin:

The numbers of bodyguards for named characters is something we can't really change. However, if any particular bodyguard unit is too large and powerful, we can cut it down.

Unfortunately, the system decides which named characters get increases in bodyguard levels. So we could reduce the bodyguard unit number there, which would bring the faction leader and heir to reasonable numbers, but other named characters would drop really low.

I'm not sure which is the better course to take.

Does anyone object to the title of Consul. While that was a yearly position, many Consul's stayed on for more than the legal limit (Marius) and performed most of the actions that the Faction Leader in RTW does.

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Originally Posted by khelvan

The numbers of bodyguards for named characters is something we can't really change. However, if any particular bodyguard unit is too large and powerful, we can cut it down.

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I'm not sure it's a problem yet. They're not Jedi, so it's not really unbalancing. In my limited experience, battles won't be decided soley by the size of the family members' bodyguards. I just thought was a little odd.

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Originally Posted by Teleklos Archelaou

Maybe we should have a new big penalty if your guy is admitted into the mysteries and then also has the 'talker' trait! He could get a -10 influence if a random chance happens and he 'blabs' the secrets.

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Dang, that would be awesome if you implemented that. :rtwyes:

But, yes, the Eleusinian mysteries were what I was referring to. To me, it's a non-issue. Historians in my campaign will be cooking up all kinds of conspiracy issues about influential Greeks belonging to some mysterious order and then changing the shape of the whole world. :winkg:

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Originally Posted by Mujalumbo

Dang, that would be awesome if you implemented that. :rtwyes:

But, yes, the Eleusinian mysteries were what I was referring to. To me, it's a non-issue. Historians in my campaign will be cooking up all kinds of conspiracy issues about influential Greeks belonging to some mysterious order and then changing the shape of the whole world. :winkg:

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You never know, I'll see what Malrubius can whip up re the trait thing.

Mentioning the historian thing - it would be sooo cool if someone got a historian as an ancillary and from that point started a 'history' of their campaign and leaders (with screens) and posted it. :grin: A little Tacitus for the rest of us.

Greetings!

In battle, playing as roman, the banners are from Seleucid:
https://img268.imageshack.us/img268/...age13jz.th.jpg

Applying 4xAntiAliasing is... messy:
https://img268.imageshack.us/img268/...age26dt.th.jpg

No CTD to report! :)

I have only one (BIG) reason to complain: Map is way too big. Campaign is pretty much unplayable for me right now because of long loading times between turns.

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I'm currently playing with the Casse, and I have to disband my (not so huge) army after each war, so I can build in my settlements (and I'm in 259)

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:rtwyes:
Great feature, EB has finily made econemy improtent unlike in vinnila were ecomey was basicly a small check on overall army size.

Overall great althou are the victory conditions set yet?
With pontus it is the generic one. Hold 50 citys including rome. Keep up the good work,
DoH

Much enjoyment playing as Iberia:
I appreciate the denser map (you don't have to spend turn upon turn to get to a settlement in Iberian the peninsula).

There are some Carthaginian officers with Iberian units.

The light Iberian infantry seem to beat up on my general's bodyguards a bit too easily.

my observations so far.

and I also don't like having javelins thrown at my troops by the unit they are fighting.

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Victory conditions are, AFAIK, complete. You can't see them in the regular place, though, which is a hardcoded nuisance. :ballchain: Check the traits of your current faction leader.
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Hi, great mod! I have been following it since last year, but never posted. Everything looks pretty amazing, however I do have a few questions:

- First season, Sweboz are paying tribute of $30,000. I realize that this must be a gameplay device to ensure that finances stay low for a while, but I am not sure how historical it is. Were these tribes paying tribute to anyone in those days? Historical record on Germanic tribes prior to Caesar is very scant, I am not sure they would even have so much gold even if they had to pay. Is there a way to eliminate the "tribute"? Maybe by waging war on the faction that we are paying tribute to?

- What historical records is the starting royal family for Sweboz based on? I would love to know more, just because I always thought the early days of the Germanic tribes will always remain hidden to us, due to the scarcity of sources. The website mentioned that all starting families are based on sound historical research.

- Considering that the gameplay device listed above ensures that barbarians have no money for a while, shouldn't the barbarian units be made cheaper? This would play into the tactic of disbanding units after each campaign to save money, as was mentioned before in this forum, as well as be more historically accurate: I presume Germanic people did not have a standing paid army in those days, but was limited to small bands of professional soldiers, who lived by plunder and tribal warriors (farmers, etc) who'd join the bands for the season or the campaign and return to the fields afterwards. Maybe I am wrong, but charging a small amount of gold for these troops would be more appropriate, IMO. Although I do realize that cheaper units may unbalance the game by producing lots of available troops all the time...

- Ships appear to have strangely alongated sails. Is that intentional? They look like they are about to topple.

By the way, I hope this post is not seen as hostile, I am very excited about this mod and the developers deserve every praise, I just offered my feedback. It would take time to truly get into the mechanics of new campaigns and battles, so my feedback is limited to first impressions.

Take care

CS

"Also, I don't believe any faction is 'too hard' when it comes to the economy. You just have to realize how they actually worked the economy. Celts didn't keep big standing armies around; most people didn't. It's too expensive. Disband every unit that you are not using to attack or defend with. Excess units should be culled to save money. You cannot afford many large armies or navies. That's the idea; that's really how they worked. The economy is supposed to be difficult. That was always one of the greatest problems of any kingdom or empire; keeping the treasury in the black"

now he tells us - I had -10000 with my Sweboz in no time

damn realistic :-)

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-First season, Sweboz are paying tribute of $30,000. I realize that this must be a gameplay device to ensure that finances stay low for a while, but I am not sure how historical it is. Were these tribes paying tribute to anyone in those days?

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It is not a tribute as such, and it applies to all factions. All factions start with an amount of extra cash, and then we take the extra away from the player at the start of the game. The display problem will be fixed.

Here is some of my thoughts:

The triats and qualities of the family members for the factions are amazing, i love reading them, considering I've only played Pontos and Baktria so far, I got alot more reading to go before I experience all the cool little facts in the traits.

The map is superbly done, it blows RTR's map out of the water, not necessarily because of its shape or such, but because you guys didn't overload it with tons of mountains or make it a maze of passes like RTR's eastern part of the map is. I hated playing Baktrians in RTR, it was simply a maze of mountain passes, but your map is logical and well designed, kudos to the map makers.

The Battles are lacking, archers are incredibly overpowered, I mean rebel levy Persian archers or some Dahae cavalry archers will eat through anything, its forcing me to rely on archer power extensively myself, archers and cavalry together can destroy anything in the game. I gotta give RTR kudos in this field, their battle-setup was very well done and balanced, I'm sure it comes after a year of balancing and development, but i was hoping EB would take a page from RTR and make battles balanced. At the moment its super easy to route enemy troops or just shoot them to pieces with arrows, or alternatively get my entire army shot to pieces by 4 units of scythian horse archers that wander into my Pontic kingdom. Its frustrating to have your Kingdom destroyed by 4 units of Scythians, because units are expensive (at least beyond the levies) and buildings take awhile, making recovering from even one disaster nearly impossible. It makes it difficult, but I think there are better ways of making the game more difficult, such as making morale higher so the AI doesn't break and run on a dime like they do so much. Of course my experience is limited to the Eastern parts of the game, things may be different in Gaul and such. My simple suggestios are tone down archery, or make then shoot slower or something, right now horse archers are simply unstoppable, and while they were a pain historically, I don't consider them the epitome of warfare and capable of killing anything. I think they should be used for harassment (killing a few), wearing down and exhausting formations not shooting them to pieces.

The building setup is superior to RTRs, there are more buildings and its a bit confusing with all the Greek everywhere, but I think its a bit more original than "AOR building 1", which is just gamey, I really like the three buildings for Baktrians, Satrapy, Semi-Autonomous and Allied, really makes you have to decide between money-saving temporary measure (allied) or expensive but more permament Satrapy level, It makes me feel like I really have to make decisions in the administration of my fledling Kingdom.

Expenses I got mixed feelings on, stuff seems awfully expensive, I miss huge RTR armies! While I can see maybe your trying to force the player to be economical, at this rate I'll never get to some of the more powerful Baktrian units, and never get many of them, and those Agema and Cataphracts look badass, I gotta get some of them!

Skins/Animations are overally high quality, the new cavalry animation for Cataphracts is killer looking, when they lower all those spears my heart skips. :happyg: Some of the skins seem rather dull and boring, but I imagine its largely because the majority of the world's people were poor, nomadic or levied and not everybody came to war with strapping leather pants and elaborate armor and shields. I prefer RTR's skins for the Romans, but your Romans probably are far closer to reality, however much I hate losing those massive plumes. The gamer part of me dislikes it, titantic battles with purty units is the best, the history guy part of me loves it, but overall good work on the skins. One final thing, the large size of the Gesatae and shock Gallic units is a bit ridiculous, it just looks wierd and ungainly. I dunno what the height of the average unit translate to in real life, but all your Celts look like 7 and a half feet tall and double the shoulder width, I know Celts and Northerners were bigger men on average and such, but it just looks ridiculous ingame at the current difference. I think you should tone down the height difference a bit.

In all truth, I think the mod is completely opposite of RTR. RTR is bells and whistles, alot of eye-candy, alot of glamour, but not much beyond the surface. A pretty shallow modification with a dull campaign. EB I find not that eye-catching with many of the units, not that glitzy or full of glamour but the campaign is amazing indepth and full of little things that make my nerdy history part of me smile with glee. I hope this helps you guys out some, and thanks for all the hard work. :gring:

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Originally Posted by Zastrow

One final thing, the large size of the Gesatae and shock Gallic units is a bit ridiculous, it just looks wierd and ungainly.

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Hehe. Hehe.:grin: (sorry)

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Originally Posted by Teleklos Archelaou

Hehe. Hehe.:grin: (sorry)

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:eyebrows:

The large size? I thought that they were rather small. Even for the cold weather. hm.

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You haven't seen them after...hmmm...playing blackjack.
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I can see we have post-OB giggles among the EB team. :tongueg:

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And yet you can't see what's happening at the hidden boards. :tongueg:
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Originally Posted by khelvan

The numbers of bodyguards for named characters is something we can't really change. However, if any particular bodyguard unit is too large and powerful, we can cut it down.

Unfortunately, the system decides which named characters get increases in bodyguard levels. So we could reduce the bodyguard unit number there, which would bring the faction leader and heir to reasonable numbers, but other named characters would drop really low.

I'm not sure which is the better course to take.

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I actually want to cut the body guard size down so that the general has to play the role of a moving morale booster rather than a battle unit.

Hello again

I am playing as the the ptolemaics. I lowered the difficulty somewhat to see if my economy was going to be slightly better and it is. Couple of things though. The pandopai(?) you know the basic spearman unit are missing their spears. Also the phalangites. The ones that use their spears with both hands have problems getting in formation again when i take them out of phalanx formation and then putting them back again. They jump(!) up and down and get their spears down. THey have axes as secondary weapons. I don't mind just running it by you to check if that should be the case. I never before saw a phalanx armed with axes. Apart from that the seleucids are bribing a dsettlement every turn. At first i was pleasantly surprised that the computer bribed someone but its getting slightly overdone. Maybe bribing settlements should be a bit harder?

grtz

They're supposed to have axes.

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Originally Posted by Mouzafphaerre

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And yet you can't see what's happening at the hidden boards. :tongueg:
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No fun there, it's all work, never ceases. :juggle2:

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Originally Posted by King of the dutch

Apart from that the seleucids are bribing a dsettlement every turn. At first i was pleasantly surprised that the computer bribed someone but its getting slightly overdone. Maybe bribing settlements should be a bit harder?

grtz

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Yeah, diplomats are dangerous! For now, I advise assassins to kill them as an offensive measure. For defense, a loyal family member or a good diplomat in a settlement can stop bribery. I've added a little tweak to the first patch that should make bribery a little harder (but still not impossible!) if you post a diplomat in a settlement.

Hello,

Played as Armenia for a bit. Here are some things i saw/noticed.

• The Armenians are rather roman. Roman voices and buildings and stuff
• ayrudzi netadzik have a peasantcard in the unit description window

No CTD's to report. Although after a while the game becomes a bit laggy. My mouse pointer will sort keep hanging. Maybe thats my comp.

Here are some things:

• There is a spelling mistake in the equites description. The word 'wass' should be 'was'. (there is also one in the armenian apset description but i forgot exactly what. i'll get back on that)
• The roman and Seleucid stuff is switched around. When you dont have a spy in a seleucid settlement and you see a flag hanging above the settlement its the roman one. (but i think you allready know this)
• The Yeuzhi are you're enemy. It doesn't matter much but its a bit weird
• When i got man of the hour my new genereal got an instant 100 bodyguard. It kept rising and was bigger than my faction leader's.

leyder