Hearts of Iron II Doomsday

Looks like heart of iron just keeps getting better.

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As the German war machine falls, two great nations rise to claim power. In the West, there is the United States, leader of the allied nations, and in the East lies the Soviet Union under communist rule. As both nations attempt to claim superiority, a new war is waiting around the corner; this time, the conflict will decide who will be the remaining superpower.

Play as the ruler of one of 175 countries through World Wars II and III. As the Allies and the Soviet Union clash in Europe, the fate of the world hangs in the balance.

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Release: April 2006

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Features


World War III scenario with an alternative historical outcome. Play the Soviet alliance, the United States or any country of your choice as new superpowers rise to power on the global stage.


Expanded tech trees with considerable detail in a new decade of warfare, allowing you to develop tactical nukes and other kinds of nuclear warfare as well as helicopter squads, Escort carriers and much more.


Improved Diplomatic/Intelligence System reflects the increased political tension of the 1950s.


Complete scenario editor.

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I can't wait for it to come out. It'll be very satisfying to see the world covered in a sea of red.

Are you going to be able to play WWII, starting around 1936?

Crazed Rabbit

this looks so freakin good, is it an expansion pack or a new game?
and i have the same question as Crazed Rabbit, Are you still going to be able to play WWII, starting around 1936?

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Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

Are you going to be able to play WWII, starting around 1936?

Crazed Rabbit

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Yes, that's what Johan or whatever the devs name is told me.

GREY STORM RISING!

I dont know, but it does say

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Play as the ruler of one of 175 countries through World Wars II and III

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Well, like most of the expansion packs that Paradox has released, it will likely include the 1936-195(?) Scenario. Because in EU2, and the Oriental Conflict expansion pack both worked together. Paradox is quickly becoming one of my favorite Game Makers, not only are their games very good, but they are always working on patches and ways to make the game better.

yep, their after sales service is much better than most. Other companies could do with taking a leaf out of their book.

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Oriental Conflict expansion pack

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where could one get this expansion pack from ?

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Originally Posted by lancelot

yep, their after sales service is much better than most. Other companies could do with taking a leaf out of their book.

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and their games are almost completely moddable, once you work out what certain things do.

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Originally Posted by ShadesWolf

where could one get this expansion pack from ?

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europa_...Asian_Chapters

Sorry I couldn't find any where were it could be bought...But it is called Europa Universalis II The Asian Chapters. I haven't played EU II in years, but I bought the game + Expansion at Best Buy, apparently it wasn't a very good seller or something.

The Expansion is extremely annoying because all the text becomes super-small. I went back to the original because the tool-tip texts were unreadable.

Interesting, no mention of it on the website.

What country u both from, I wonder if it had a limited release

I'm in the US. I also think it was mentioned that it was used to appeal people in Asia, my guess is it was probably released for Japan, China, and South West Asia and maybe India.

Must...save....more...money...should...not...have...spent...it...on...games...must...save...more...m oney...


:embarassed:

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/...&mode=previews


looks good :2thumbsup:

The addon will come with the original game, and all the new 'features' will be available from the off (i.e 1936 GC) and in all other scenarios.

Bump. Comes out next month. Excited I am.

Tachikaze, I know you have the game. Spill some beans!

Woah, you mean the writer of Last Stand of he Eagle is the same as our Tachikaze? News to me. Don't count on him talking though, there is the non-disclosure agreement, and he's in Frace for a week.

DEMO!!!!! and I have midterms to study for :wall: :wall: :wall:

If the buzz on the paradox site is anything to go by, this expansion is as buggy as hell....

but Im getting it anyway... :2thumbsup:

Maybe I'll get HoI, when it is really cheap.

Game came out today.

I tried to get it at my local GAME shop but they havent ordered any in. (Typical bunch of ####)

So i am downloading it from Paradox themselves.
I will let you know what I think after Ive had time to play a little. Looks like I might be busy over the next few days before I go away on my holidays.

Well ive had a little play - all last night about 6 hours work and Im still only in March 1937.

New things that have jumped out at me already

1/ New type of aircraft carrier called a 'light one'
2/ Unit leaders, ie generals etc now have a history of what has happened to them during conflicts (nice touch)
3/ Intelligence (still coming to terms with this one)
4/ Upgrade/ reinforce units - this was badly needed, you can now decide if you want a unit to be upgraded or reinforced. You can even set this as priority. (This was a much needed improvement - I always had problems with the way it always selected to upgrade all units. I would have prefered to have allowed some to just die out.)
5/ Tech tree for longer time period. I havent got that far yet so cant comment (I did notice that a new line has been added called hospital. I wonder how that will work)

At the moment this is all that jumps to mind.
Talk more later.

I played the demo and noticed the escorts are now a brigade unit, is that change good, bad, or just different?

And I have heard rumblings about the new system for commanders gaining experience, have you noticed, do you care?

I like the idea of escorts as brigades. Saves slots of another bomber. Also, the 1.1 DD patch ruined the xp system. Now only the leader of a battle gains xp, and bomber commanders never do, unless they run into fighters. 1.0 DD doesn't have this problem.

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Originally Posted by discovery1

I like the idea of escorts as brigades. Saves slots of another bomber.

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I havent developed the technology yet for escort fighter, so I will let u know tomorrow what I think. I will prob only get about 3 hours in tonight so hopefully that will take me up to 1938 ish.......

I have played upto Nov 1 1939. Poland has been more costly then I remeber it being, and the French have advanced into the Saar. Also Nat Spain is on my side, and failed to take Gibralter with its lone garrison div:wall: now the south of spain is UK occupied while spanish armies arrive in tolouse. I have escort brgades attached to all my my bombers, but they take apreciable losses. It would probably be much morse without them. I hate how it is a range decrease of 150 across the board with the birgades though.

Ok I havent managed to get much playing in the last few days, with getting ready for holiday and all that.

Ive advanced uptul June 1938. Which I also did the night before. However, The game has crashed on me once and I lost the entire evenings play.

I have now installed the patch and am at the same position as on the previous night. The Anschluss event has just been proclaimed with Austria.

This means I have just over a year to build another 40 infatry divisions to be ready for the start of the war.

Shades, setting autosave to monthly will stop you losing information like that, as I find the game usually crashes at the beginning of the month more often.

Now, I was looking to enter the Paradox bandwagon (it is past time to redress this blasphemy to God!) so I downloaded the HOI2 demo (Ardennes offensive scenario) and found it to be impressive (got trounced as the Allies, but won impressively as the Nazis!?), though the building-up parts, which are disabled, interests me much more--and I am quite sufficiently excited. So now I want to get a Hearts of Iron game, but I'm in a situation that, to cut short, is called a limited budget situation: being a kid who unusually is not accustomed to paying full prices for games, and not accustomed to buying games often, either, in such a way that every purchase counts. So, here is the question:

Should I get Hearts of Iron for cheap, or Hearts of Iron II anyway?

I know it's not that relevant to the topic, but I don't want to dig the old HOI2 thread up.

HOI I is a really great game but I think it would be better to get HOI II as it has many fixes to some niggling problems of the first as well as more provinces and the Tech and building up is so much better

I've got Hearts of Iron II: Doomsday! Hurrah! Hooray! Yippie!

...wait, is it stand-alone or does it require the original one?

*shudders*

Edit: Thx, disco. Now I'm assured. :bow:

Can't wait to try it out 'till morning today. Nonstop.

stand alone

Wow, I think you guys must be incredible masochists.

I just bought my first Paradox Game today - the original Hearts of Iron, Version 1.08, for $9.95. I haven't bought a Paradox Game before because I've had a feeling their games look just a bit too complicated...

Well, now I've got it, played through the tutorials and had a look at the game, and I cannot BELIEVE how complex it is!

I started out playing Britain in 1936, the first thing I notice is that I've got ninety convoys to manage. Ninety. And ALL of them unescorted, which presumably means I am going to have to fiddle with my scads of destroyers to allocate an escort for each and every one of these convoys. And that is before I even THINK about looking at overall strategy!

Then I found out I've got military assets in India, Australia...all over the world in fact. But no apparent way of easily identifying which countries are allied to me even. I mean, this game is HUGE. TERRIFYINGLY HUGE. I've even got a list of hundreds of individual commanders to assign to various units!

I quickly got out of that scenario, and tried Germany '39, where at least I wouldn't have to fiddle with naval assets. So I tried attacking Poland. When I click on an army, I have to set the exact bloody time of attack! So I click on one army, and it tells me it will advance into the province on September 8th. Then I click on another army and it tells me the earliest date of attack is September 11th. Then another one and the earliest date of attack is September 16th. And each time this happens, I have to go and reset all the other attack dates in order to co-ordinate everything!

So eventually I got a few attacks organized, then unpaused the game. And suddenly I'm getting message boxes coming up, DOZENS AND DOZENS of the blasted things, one after the other, so fast I can hardly keep pace with clicking the "Okay" button to get rid of them all, let alone watch my attacks develop!

But finally after about ten minutes of clicking "Okay" buttons I do manage to watch a couple of my attacks. So somehow one huge army I sent ends up getting thrashed. And then I watch the second attack. In spite of starting with a big numerical advantage, I see that I have just a slight advantage of 900 points to 850 or so. But then, while I'm watching, suddenly the enemy points goes up to 1250 and I'm losing again.

This is not a game, it's a bleedin' monstrosity!

That ain't nothing. Try Victoria.

After another foray into the German 1939 scenario, I find it hard to believe that *anyone* could play this game and enjoy it.

In spite of a really careful setup I still got smashed by the Poles, who seem to have an unlimited number of reinforcements to keep sending to battle. My own reinforcements, when I can scrape some up, take days to arrive at the battlefield.

I'm Germany, for goodness' sakes! The Poles should be a pushover!

And the controls are so finicky, it seems it's impossible to select only the units you want. I did read the tutorial on creating new units but even if you do create one, I can't figure out how to select just this unit and send it somewhere.

And while it takes all my attention to try and keep control of these battles, my fleets are being sunk all over the world by the British and French. This game is just crazy.

I guess I can try doing the tutorial again, but at this stage I'm about ready to chuck it in already.

Try playing the 1936 scenario with some country like Portugal or Turkey to get used to the mechanics. Don't dive into the deep end directly. Monsters like UK, Germany or USSR are a bit too much to handle for a first game.

Thanks for the tip! Maybe I'll try that ~:)

A terrible cliché of an advice would be to start checking the Paradox forums, after trying a bit the less complex factions. It would also have helped if you had started with simpler Paradox games, like CK or EU2, the interface has many similarities in all their grand strategy games.

Screwtype, HOI: II is WAY better. Less pop-ups, you can set the computer to auto-manage quite a few things efficiently, and it is overall more fun and less complex. It's also cheap, not much more then HOI: I.

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Originally Posted by evil_maniac from mars

Screwtype, HOI: II is WAY better. Less pop-ups, you can set the computer to auto-manage quite a few things efficiently, and it is overall more fun and less complex. It's also cheap, not much more then HOI: I.

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I was wondering about that. HOI certainly seems like a game that hasn't had enough development, especially in regards to the UI.

I think I've seen a copy of HOI 2 Platinum around for $29.95, which is still pretty cheap. Maybe it would be worth the extra...

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Originally Posted by SwordsMaster

Try playing the 1936 scenario with some country like Portugal or Turkey to get used to the mechanics. Don't dive into the deep end directly. Monsters like UK, Germany or USSR are a bit too much to handle for a first game.

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He's right. My first game was as Peru, and when I'd finished, I still had a lot to learn, but I was getting the hang of things. Managed to get Ecuador and Colombia under my belt, too.

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Originally Posted by GoreBag

He's right. My first game was as Peru, and when I'd finished, I still had a lot to learn, but I was getting the hang of things. Managed to get Ecuador and Colombia under my belt, too.

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You wicked imperialist you :laugh4:

I've just been playing the HOI 2 Demo. I've found that switching to unit symbols rather than icons helps a bit, because you can see how many units are in a province.

I can also see that that the enemy troops are moving around a lot, changing their deployments from hour to hour, which I guess helps to explain why I couldn't break through the Poles before.

But I'm still having problems maneouvring my own units. I told them to attack but only a couple of them seemed to participate while the rest just got a "moving" symbol on them. Which meant that I didn't have enough strength in the attack and got beat again.

Yeah, it sure is hard to figure out how to win a battle in this game, LOL. When you're used to the instant results you get in most wargames, it's a big change to find yourself trying to manage a battlefield that is changing from hour to hour!

But hopefully if I stick with it I'll figure it out eventually...

The 2 basic rules of modern warfare: Encircle and move. If you fight, encircle the enemy, and never stop moving to stop the enemy from reinforcing, redeploying and beat him piecemeal. Other than that I think you should have a look at the forums, there are lots of useful tips there.

Yaa, I bought Doomsday (for only 20$, that's very nice of a deal for a brand new stand-alone expansion that, frankly, includes the original game too) and began with, as usual, UK. I almost killed myself with the details which are humongous, and the pains of the real British leaders as they tried to hold to their Empire was quickly appreciated. I quitted that game and started as Argentina. It was way more fun...and easier. I trounced Chile and Uruguay (or was it Paraguay? The small one near Buanos Aires...) and kept my profile low after that--too high a belligerence to dare provoke more of the US hostility. Ended the game as an Axis, though, barely victorious thanks to the apparently lucky stroke that the Japanese took all China early and managed to save the Germans from the Russian hordes...

And I've been playing all week. To 5 A.M. every day in this Spring Break...

Finally got the time to get the game, and have been playing for a couple of days. The addition of spyonage is nice although it reminds me of Trade Centers in EUII as far as micromanagement goes which is slightly annoying. I like the expansions to the tech tree although I find the "hospital" line to be plain stupid. Come on! It is not like medicine stopped being researched during the war anyway...

Other than that, it is basically HOI2, with some extra features I like (like commanders' history, or the option to not reinforce or upgrade - I'm starving out all my militias), and the game is going well, as Italy in '36, I've annexed Ethiopia, Albania, took the Balearic islands, Seville, Hualva and La Coruna during the Spanish Civil war, won a war against Portugal, annexing all of their European possessions except Lisbon and most of their colonies, and I'm building up now for an invasion of Republican Spain, weakened by the Civil war, and Greece, which is just nice to have. I' also building a new fleet and trying to restore my energy production which is under minimums. Its sometime late in 1937 and I'm enjoying the game.

A little update: I declared war on Greece thinking it would be asy pickings, as I'm allied to Bulgaria and between the 2 of us we can quickly destroy the greek resistance. I occupied Salonika, and after 3 months of tough fighting, managed to take Ianina. And, as my battered landing forces are moving into Ioanina, Yugoslavia declares war on me and occupies the former albanian provinces. The only forces I could throw at them were the 7 divisions stationed in Venecia, with heavy artillery which made them really slow too.

Thankfully, Greece offered peace giving me some of their energy-producing provinces, which I accepted as that allowed me to turn the 6 divisions faring in Greece up to the north. I managed a landind in Dubrovnik and Split, took Mostar and by then my northern forces were already in Yugoslavian territory.

In the south, though things were not going so smoothly. To retake my albanian provinces, 4 divisions and 2 tactical bomber groups spent 5 months, during which, Yugoslavia occupied Sofia, my allies' capital. Good thing is, while they were tied down there, my light landing forces occuped Belgrade, and waited there for the heavier artillery and tanks to surround the nearby enemy before attacking. The turning point of the war was the surrounding and annihilation of 14 Yugoslavian divisions in Dubrovnik by 4 indantry divisions and 3 mountaineers, with heavy fire from my batleships and frequent bombings (BTW, the bombers that wotked Yugoslavia are 5 star veterans now), a full combined arms asault, and 14 destroyed divisions. Then I took control of the bulgarian forces and surrounded and destroyed the 5 divisions in Sofia. And that was the end of the war. So now I control an uninterrupted strip of land from Genoa to Athens after the annexation of Yugoslavia and the re-annexation of Albania.

That was 1939-March 1938.

By now, my infantry had been upgraded to the '39 model, my cavalry became mechanised and I shipped my most experienced divisions to Spain, where, as I said, I was planning on campaigning before the Yugoslavian war broke out. It was a good moment: most of the treaties Repblican Spain had with other nations had just been outdated, but my spies confirmed that there were over 34 infantry divisions and 7 armoured in the Rep. Spanish army. While I only had 17 divisions, most of them veteran from Yugoslavia, Greece or Portugal, and 5 cavalry divisions which proved to be unvaluable. But nothing could prevent me from changing my plans: I needed that energy and those ICs (the building of a new navy meant, all other aspects of producing were under minimum), I had commisioned 3 new ships, 2 class 4 battleships, and a light aircraft carrier for patrolling purposes (I joined the light carrier with a few of my oldest light and heavy cruisers and destructors to get a smallish but ok-competent group), but there were still destructors and a couple of super-heavies waiting to be finished.

I waited until al my divisions were in place, my dissent under 5% and the declared war on Spain (Feb, 1939).The first few months were unexpected: my cavalry broke through much superior forces when they were only meant to act as a diversion, and my main attack groups struggled to maintain their positions and were even cutoff once during a particularly unexpected contraofensive by the spanish. All in all, my planes cotrolled the air, and another 2 tac bomber groups and escorts were brought over to help, and they proved unvaluable. Madrid fell after 3 months of war, but I was failing to advance my positions in the south, where my 4 Yugoslavian divisions were struggling to maintain at bay the 9 spanish divisions surrounding them.

It is now November of 1939, and my 17 divisions are in Huesca and Tarragona, surrounding the last 20 spanish divisions in Baecelona. all 3 of my bomber groups are on "ground attack" and there is constant shore bombardment missions for the heaviest of my ships. Still, and with the rest of Spain occupied, All 3 of my assaults have failed. I'll give them until Christmas of grinding them into the ground. And if I still can't win, I'm going to go for their colonies, until they can't even resupply from anywhere else and just starve.

Wow, this game is a really tough slog isn't it? LOL.

I'm going to have to go back and fiddle with this HOI 2 demo again. I'm completely bamboozled by the combat system, but it sounds like too fun a game not to try and persevere with. I'm already bored with Homm5 after only 2 1/2 missions, LOL.

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Originally Posted by SwordsMaster

...my cavalry became mechanised...

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Whoa, mechanised or motorized?

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Originally Posted by SwordsMaster

It is now November of 1939, and my 17 divisions are in Huesca and Tarragona, surrounding the last 20 spanish divisions in Baecelona. all 3 of my bomber groups are on "ground attack" and there is constant shore bombardment missions for the heaviest of my ships. Still, and with the rest of Spain occupied, All 3 of my assaults have failed. I'll give them until Christmas of grinding them into the ground. And if I still can't win, I'm going to go for their colonies, until they can't even resupply from anywhere else and just starve.

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Spain only has one overseas factory, so shipments must be coming from that particular island in the canaries. Your options: set your navy to convoy raiding missions around the Barcelona and Canary sea zones; set your airforces to strategic bombardment missions in the Canaries (if you can reach) and in Barcelona (does Barcelona have any factories? I don't recall); hunker down your ground forces and prepare for an attempted breakthrough. Keeping their army out of supply will drain their strength and organisation, and the winter will cause attrition losses on their troops that can scarcely be reinforced.

Landing in the colonies isn't worth much, unless you're aiming for that single colony with the factory (which usually doesn't hold much of a garrison). The other colonies are worth nothing and bring you no closer to full annexation after being taken. I'd concentrate on eliminating their forces and capturing Barcelona - you have them in an excellent position.

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Whoa, mechanised or motorized?

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mechanised.

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Spain only has one overseas factory, so shipments must be coming from that particular island in the canaries. Your options: set your navy to convoy raiding missions around the Barcelona and Canary sea zones; set your airforces to strategic bombardment missions in the Canaries (if you can reach) and in Barcelona (does Barcelona have any factories? I don't recall); hunker down your ground forces and prepare for an attempted breakthrough. Keeping their army out of supply will drain their strength and organisation, and the winter will cause attrition losses on their troops that can scarcely be reinforced.

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That is my intention, yes. Barcelona has a factory and it's worth 2 VPs. I already have 2 fleets of subs patrolling the straits of Gibraltar and Barcelona, but they seem to have a decent amount of supplies...

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Landing in the colonies isn't worth much, unless you're aiming for that single colony with the factory (which usually doesn't hold much of a garrison). The other colonies are worth nothing and bring you no closer to full annexation after being taken. I'd concentrate on eliminating their forces and capturing Barcelona - you have them in an excellent position.

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Thats what makes it all the more annoying-I control the rest of the peninsula and have the better troops, but the bastards won't just surrender. Actually that should be included as an option

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Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube

there were still a whopping 70 Divisions of varying nationality holed up in London.

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That sounds a bit unrealistic, how could so many divisions survive without supplies?

Also, I think the diplomatic model sounds a bit underdone - Germany ought to have a say in whether or not Italy gets to take major assets like Vichy France and Britain.

It's a problem with the game. The supplies come from the capital so if you encircle the capital the whole of the country loses supplies. But the frces in the capital can be supplied indefinately. Also any divisions deployed come from the capital and goes to lands connected to the capital. In this case all new divisions are put into London with supplies.

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Originally Posted by ShadesPanther

It's a problem with the game. The supplies come from the capital so if you encircle the capital the whole of the country loses supplies. But the frces in the capital can be supplied indefinately. Also any divisions deployed come from the capital and goes to lands connected to the capital. In this case all new divisions are put into London with supplies.

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Except the garrison divisions that have the "Strategically redeploy" option. Very true though, I think the maximum numver of divs a province should be able to mantain when surrounded is the province's ICx3 or something like that. And maybe make that upgradeable with some technology.

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Originally Posted by SwordsMaster

mechanised.

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Isn't that a little early for mechanised cavalry?

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Originally Posted by GoreBag

Isn't that a little early for mechanised cavalry?

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sorry, you were right, its motorised.

Hmmm, this isn't as easy as I thought.

I thought I'd take you guys' advice and play a smaller nation to learn the ropes, so I picked Turkey.

I tried to go to war with Greece but got a message that I can't just declare war on another country because I'm a democracy! And there isn't enough support for a war.

I looked at my diplomacy points to see if I could stir up some trouble that way and they are zero! I don't have any. And I get an extra 0.5 diplomacy points per...not sure, I thought it said per year?

So can someone tell me a way I can get more support from my people for a war? Or how I can up my diplomacy points? Can I change my form of government to dictatorship?

Or have I just made a bad choice of country, and should forget about Turkey and pick some other country to play instead?

Edit: Given up on Turkey, playing Brazil instead. Just got my very first tank - a 40mm light tank - in April 1938. Just wait till I spring it on unsuspecting, oil rich Venezuela. Whee-hee-hee!

What are the differences between HOI2 and HOI2 Doomsday ? I know the doomsday campaign last quite a bit longer and focusses somewhat more on the cold war, but does HOI2 have anything more than Doomsday ? Would there be any reason to get HOI2 instead of Doomsday ?

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Originally Posted by screwtype

I'm going to have to go back and fiddle with this HOI 2 demo again. I'm completely bamboozled by the combat system, but it sounds like too fun a game not to try and persevere with. I'm already bored with Homm5 after only 2 1/2 missions, LOL.

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You bought it ?

I can't help you with your other stuff since its been a long time since I played HoI 1(why did you buy that? the combat system is far inferior...) The HoI2 demo oder of Battle, at least as the Germans, is pretty bad though. All their troops start with commanders over their limit and tanks chained to inf divisions......

anyway...

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Edit: Given up on Turkey, playing Brazil instead. Just got my very first tank - a 40mm light tank - in April 1938. Just wait till I spring it on unsuspecting, oil rich Venezuela. Whee-hee-hee!

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It probably won't do to well in the jungles of venezuela. Mountaineers or marines would be your best bet.

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What are the differences between HOI2 and HOI2 Doomsday ? I know the doomsday campaign last quite a bit longer and focusses somewhat more on the cold war, but does HOI2 have anything more than Doomsday ? Would there be any reason to get HOI2 instead of Doomsday ?

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It has a new intelligence tab, vastly improved AI, more techs, and an editor. The only reason would be mods already for HoI2, although they will switch over to Doomsday.

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Originally Posted by doc bean

You bought it ?

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No, not yet. I bought HOI 1 because it was on special, then I thought I'd try the HOI 2 demo. But I haven't bought HOI 2 yet. Maybe I'll just skip it and buy Doomsday instead now?

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Originally Posted by discovery1

I can't help you with your other stuff since its been a long time since I played HoI 1(why did you buy that? the combat system is far inferior...) The HoI2 demo oder of Battle, at least as the Germans, is pretty bad though. All their troops start with commanders over their limit and tanks chained to inf divisions......

anyway...

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Actually I noticed that in the demo, you have to reorganize all your troops before you start because the commanders are over their limit.

I bought HOI because it was selling for $9.95 - my preferred price point :) I didn't want to pay more for a newer version because I didn't know if I'd like the game. I'm still not sure if I like it, but I do kind of like the idea of World War II at a high level of detail.

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Originally Posted by discovery1

It probably won't do to well in the jungles of venezuela. Mountaineers or marines would be your best bet.

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Yeah, actually I noticed that Venezuela is mostly jungle shortly after I posted that, so I didn't bother building any tank divisions after all. Just infantry.

I'll tell you what I'm really pissed about though. I played for several hours up until February 1940, building up my army, my tech and my industry, then declared war on Venezuela. So I try to march my troops into Venezuela and it turns out they won't get there until May!!! Not sure what happened there as I've got infrastructure up to 60 which ain't that bad.

But then, shortly before May, I'm scrolling the map and I notice a couple of US divisions where some French and British colonies used to be. Oh, wait a minute, the French and British colonies are still there. THE US DIVISIONS HAVE TAKEN ONE OF MY PROVINCES. I'M AT WAR WITH THE FRICKIN' USA!!!

The game tells me everything that's going on over the other side of the planet, that I couldn't care less about, right down to letting me know when Slovakia has merged a couple of Army Corps (really? I so needed to know that) and the STOOPID GAME DOESN'T EVEN BOTHER TELLING ME I'M AT WAR WITH THE US!!! Doesn't even bother telling me the US has invaded and taken one of my provinces! :furious3:

So it's an evening's work straight down the drain. And wouldn't you know it, just when I finished deploying all my divisions on the Venezuelan border where they don't have a hope of getting back in time to counterattack the Yanks. :wall:

That is because probably when you declared war on Venezuela, there was small print in the box saying somehing like: "The following nations are guaranteeing Venezuela's intependence and will fight alongside them in the war" or somethjing similar. Thats why, if you are planning to attack someone who's independence is being guaranteed by someone else, you should have very good relations and possibly a non aggressions pact with that someone else first.

Hmmm, I didn't notice any such warning when I declared war Swordsmaster. But I might have missed it I guess.

Fortunately I did save the game just before declaring war on Ven., so I went back and tried declaring war on Uruguay instead. Sure enough, the US invaded again, and again I didn't get told either that the US had declared war or that it had invaded. But I did notice this time that when I went back into the diplomacy screen, it at least informed me there I was at war with both Uruguay and the US.

I guess what I'll have to do is either wait until the US is at war with Japan and then start invading my neighbours, or else build up my army to be bigger. I thought 17 divisions was pretty cool but the US has 130!

My biggest problem now though is trying to figure out how to trade goods. I've figured out most of the game for myself by now except trade, and wouldn't you know it, this is the one tutorial that invariably crashes, and right when it's telling me the bit I want to know.

Basically it tells you how to offer a deal on the world market and then crashes. I've tried offering a deal for essential goodies, basically 100 rubber for 100 coal, but when I go into the daily trade summary screen, it says I'm selling the 100 coal but only getting 12 coal in return! No wonder my economy's going down the tube. I don't suppose you could explain what I'm supposed to do after hitting the "offer deal" button?

Look down in the message box. There probably was an alert, it just didn't come up in a message box. The default message box settings are not so good in default HoI. Did you patch your game? HoI2 also tells you if someone dows you in a message box by default.

Thanks GL, I found a good way to get rid of messages you don't want is to right click on them, which brings up another box where you can set the priority.

It doesn't solve the problem of having war declared on you without warning though, but I've found that as a South American country basically all I need to do is join the allies once war is declared and then the US will leave me alone even if she is still isolationist.

One of the niggling little problems I have now is with allies trying to send me expeditionary corps every few days. I'm getting very sick of having to click "go to", "okay" and then "return to sender" every time.

Basically ATM I feel the game is kind of okay but there are so many things it could do that would make it better. Why the heck doesn't the game tell you how many units a province can support before you send them in? Why do you have to reinforce EVERY division individually instead of as a stack or globally? Why doesn't it tell you somewhere when you're building something how many resources and so on it's going to cost? Why doesn't the game update things without running time for a few days? Why is it so hard to find out how many resources you're consuming/about to consume (yes I know about the ledger page, but it's far from satisfactory, since it changes with numerous actions you make). Why is there no "undo" for some features when you make a mistake?

All in all, this a game that ought to be good but kind of isn't, because of all the omissions. I'm tempted to upgrade to HOI 2 and probably will, but something tells me they won't have fixed many of my central complaints in that either...

Oh and BTW, what the heck do you have an "upgrade unit" button for when all your units appear to upgrade automatically?

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Originally Posted by screwtype

One of the niggling little problems I have now is with allies trying to send me expeditionary corps every few days. I'm getting very sick of having to click "go to", "okay" and then "return to sender" every time.

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HOI2 Doomsday still have that problem. But it is minor detail for me. At least, I take it as a sign of goodwill...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by screwtype

Basically ATM I feel the game is kind of okay but there are so many things it could do that would make it better. Why the heck doesn't the game tell you how many units a province can support before you send them in? Why do you have to reinforce EVERY division individually instead of as a stack or globally? Why doesn't it tell you somewhere when you're building something how many resources and so on it's going to cost? Why doesn't the game update things without running time for a few days? Why is it so hard to find out how many resources you're consuming/about to consume (yes I know about the ledger page, but it's far from satisfactory, since it changes with numerous actions you make). Why is there no "undo" for some features when you make a mistake?

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I don't understand some of the problems here because I never played HOI, but some would seem to be solved by HOI2, at least at the Doomsday level, and therefore no longer be an issue. Reinforcements automatically work now, taking your IC, unless you specifically choose to deny them to some of your divisions. Though the brigade-thing is still individual (if that is what you mean by reinforcing, i.e. adding stuff to your divisions). I don't think there's a unit limit on a province, though too much and it would (quite logically) be detrimental instead. See the London with 70 Divisions (Holy!) post above. Keeping tract of resources is a little hard, but I must say, despite my inexperience, that the logic is easy to grasp now. Sometimes when things seem to "not working properly" I'd find out that it's just a problem in my industrial capacity/allocation; and, if that would comfort you (probably not), they put warnings on every kind of diplomatic/espionage actions you are about to take along the lines of "all effects are immediate and cannot be undone", thus implicitly say "be careful with that dow button!"

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Originally Posted by AntiochusIII

HOI2 Doomsday still have that problem. But it is minor detail for me. At least, I take it as a sign of goodwill...

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I knew it. People who can't design a UI generally don't know how to fix one either in my experience. But I am still staggered that this problem exists after numerous patches and three major releases!

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Originally Posted by AntiochusIII

Reinforcements automatically work now, taking your IC, unless you specifically choose to deny them to some of your divisions.

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Well that's at least one thing I won't have to worry about if I upgrade the game then.

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Originally Posted by AntiochusIII

I don't think there's a unit limit on a province, though too much and it would (quite logically) be detrimental instead.

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There isn't strictly speaking a "unit limit" in HOI 1 either, but what I was referring to is the fact that your units start to perish if you leave them in a province with insufficient infrastructure! I mean, why not simply have a number in each province you can look at - why not, for example, have the number of units supportable displayed instead of the esoteric number for infrastructure they have now? I mean, how do I know how many divisions a province with an infrastructure of "19" or "34" can hold? But I suppose it would be too easy to do it that way, wouldn't it?

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Originally Posted by AntiochusIII

Keeping tract of resources is a little hard

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Yes, it is hard, but the point is it doesn't need to be hard. The numbers could be displayed any number of ways. But apparently the clowns who designed these games think it's fun to spend half your time doing mental arithmetic instead of playing the game.

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Originally Posted by AntiochusIII

Sometimes when things seem to "not working properly" I'd find out that it's just a problem in my industrial capacity/allocation

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Well, yeah. But you wouldn't experience these problems at all if the game was properly designed. In my current game as Argentina, I had to completely stop all research for years on end, because I ran out of certain types of resources. With a more accessible interface, I might have been able to manage things a bit better. I could certainly have done it with far less trouble. Having to tweak around the resource sliders every few turns gets a bit old after a while, especially when they're so tricky to position in the first place.

Well, yes, it does require micromanagement, but this is not a game like Civilisation 4. It requires micromanagement. You should still try out HOI2. The GUI is much improved, and many things are a lot clearer (the resource increase-decrease thing for example).

Indeed. Many of screwtypes' complaints are totally alien to me, since I've never played HoI. I can only assume that they fixed in the transition to the sequel. HoI2, also, has a tutorial mode (~D ) to clear up any misunderstandings.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by screwtype

Oh and BTW, what the heck do you have an "upgrade unit" button for when all your units appear to upgrade automatically?

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Its actually a do not upgarde button IIRC...so you can refuse to upgarde units if you need the resources elsewhere.

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Originally Posted by lancelot

Its actually a do not upgarde button IIRC...so you can refuse to upgarde units if you need the resources elsewhere.

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That must be in HOI 2. I'm sure it's an upgrade button (that doesn't work) in HOI 1!

The upgrade in HOI 1 send them back into the build queue. It will take a while for them to upgrade, and while they do you can't use them. And Units loose strength in provs with infra thats too low, I forgot the limit. 40? that doesn't happen in HoI2.

Yeah I think the limit is 40. But sometimes I can't even leave a single unit in a province because it doesn't have the infrastructure - even at 34 or so.

Yes, when you click on the "Upgrade" button the unit is sent back into the build queue. But here's the weird thing. When it comes back, it still has the exact same stats as when you put in it. I find that just researching new techs, my units seem to get upgraded automatically. So the upgrade function is completely redundant.

Maybe Paradox decided to automate the feature in a patch, but didn't bother to deactivate the button.

BTW I went down to buy HOI 2 today, I rang my local EB store and they told me it was on sale in a two games for $50 deal. In fact I rang two EB stores and they told me the same thing. I didn't really want to buy it as a 2 for $50 deal but then I figured if I bought it direct from Paradox it wouldn't cost much less and I'd have to wait a week to get it.

So I went down to the EB store and rummaged through the 2 for $50 bin for fifteen minutes until I was satisfied the game wasn't there. So then I went over to the normal sales display and there it was, selling as a standalone title for $70 :furious3:

So I didn't buy it. But since I didn't want to leave empty handed, I ended up buying two games from the 2 for $50 bin anyhow, they were HOMM3 and Vampire Masquerades. I've heard good things about both games on this forum. But I loaded up HOMM3 and it looks really dated. Maybe Masquerades will be better.

Now I'll probably have to go down to the other EB store tomorrow and see if I can pick up HOI2 in the 2 for $50 deal there. The dang game is going to end up costing me $100, minimum. ~:(

Dude, I paide 55 for it the week it was released, 25 of which was shipping was a Saturday arrival. You're getting ripped off. Just order direct from paradox.

You can buy the doomsday standalone expansion(it also includes the original campaign) for 20 bucks. HoI2 is 30 USD.

http://www.paradoxshop.com/

True, 30 is the most you should ever pay for pretty much any Paradox game.

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Originally Posted by screwtype

[quote is too long to repeat]

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!!!

Screwtype, I got Doomsday for 20$USD at Fry's here in Vegas, just after it's out. And a week after they have a promotion reduce to 15$.

A freakin' bargain! AND it's stand-alone! I'm shocked and awed and overjoyed and right now my grades are spiralling downward and the lack of sleep is killing me for weeks. :sweatdrop:

Heck, the best first Paradox game ever.

I bought it for 19.99USD at Hastings, standalone package. Now I'm just really waiting for the 1.2 update and when Core Switches over.

My prices were in Aussie dollars :) All the same, AU$70 is US$50, which is still far too much for the game IMO. Especially when I can get it direct from Paradox itself, including P&P from the US, for (from memory) US$28.

In fact, I think that's what I'll do, even though I'll have to wait a couple of weeks for delivery.

The one thing I can't work out though, is that although the DD FAQ says DD contains essentially the entire original game ie 36 to 47, they are selling DD for 19.99 and HOI 2 for 29.99! And even more confusing, they are selling a "two in one" package, where you get both HOI 2 and DD, for 39.99.

Now if DD is a standalone title that contains virtually the whole of HOI 2 already, why the heck is it *cheaper* than HOI 2 alone? I can't figure it out. And this makes me nervous about ordering it.

Lower developement and production costs? And a patch ruined the xp system, but it's a patch.

Let them figure out that it's not just an expansion. If you're interested in getting Doomdsay, I'm fairly certain that there's a version of it available for electronic payment and download.

There is. It's what I bought, rather then wait for it to come to EB or in the mail.