Why I hate Britain under Blair...

Could Britain be any more of a shameful country than it is today?

I mean I am proud to be British, but I am beginning to hate what is my homeland...

We have extremely high and pointless taxes, people who are scum of the earth that scrounge from our benefits system, and make the honest taxpayer pay for a lowlife to live in a land of luxury where they can do anything they like without the law getting involved.

We let in illegal immigrants where any other country in Europe or the world would not tollerate this...

We give more money to countries that are ruled by crack-pot dictators than our own homeless on the street who are dying.

We have one of the worst hospital rates in Europe, and we are the 4th wealthiest country in the world..

No offence to any americans, but Blair is making us follow Bush into conflict without hesitation.

We invade Iraq, yet nothing is done about the atriocities in Zimbabwe and other African countries with dictators.

More street crime than ever, chavs killing old grannies for a fiver...

political correctness gone mad...
A country where any flag can be flown except the union Jack

And a land where if you are burgaled and defend yourself YOU are likely to be getting a jail sentence....

Where mr prescott is building houses on our greenbelt land like mad...

aah, a green and pleasant land.........

I think you and Shadeswolf might get along. Sorry about your frustration.:no:

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Originally Posted by Lentonius

Could Britain be any more of a shameful country than it is today?

I mean I am proud to be British, but I am beginning to hate what is my homeland...

We have extremely high and pointless taxes, people who are scum of the earth that scrounge from our benefits system, and make the honest taxpayer pay for a lowlife to live in a land of luxury where they can do anything they like without the law getting involved.

We let in illegal immigrants where any other country in Europe or the world would not tollerate this...

We give more money to countries that are ruled by crack-pot dictators than our own homeless on the street who are dying.

We have one of the worst hospital rates in Europe, and we are the 4th wealthiest country in the world..

No offence to any americans, but Blair is making us follow Bush into conflict without hesitation.

We invade Iraq, yet nothing is done about the atriocities in Zimbabwe and other African countries with dictators.

More street crime than ever, chavs killing old grannies for a fiver...

political correctness gone mad...
A country where any flag can be flown except the union Jack

And a land where if you are burgaled and defend yourself YOU are likely to be getting a jail sentence....

Where mr prescott is building houses on our greenbelt land like mad...

aah, a green and pleasant land.........

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There is one place in the British Isles (but not in the UK) that has none of those problems....I live there, what more can you want, come to the Isle of Man:2thumbsup:

yay! isle of man, here I come!

And they ban gays from living there, dont they?


YAY. no chance of elton john performing his AWFUL songs

(p.s im not homophobic i just dont like sir elton)

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Originally Posted by Lentonius

And they ban gays from living there, dont they?


YAY. no chance of elton john performing his AWFUL songs

(p.s im not homophobic i just dont like sir elton)

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No, they used to ban homosexualism from the island but about 5 years ago it was legalised, just last month we legalised gay marriage....but i dont think elton is gonna come...were pretty unknown:2thumbsup:

Praise the lord!!!

well, And I think it's gonna be a long long time
Till touch down....

NOOO. the last thing i can stand is another series of rocketman. Did you watch it on the isle of man.....

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Originally Posted by Lentonius

Could Britain be any more of a shameful country than it is today?

I mean I am proud to be British, but I am beginning to hate what is my homeland...

We have extremely high and pointless taxes, people who are scum of the earth that scrounge from our benefits system, and make the honest taxpayer pay for a lowlife to live in a land of luxury where they can do anything they like without the law getting involved.

We let in illegal immigrants where any other country in Europe or the world would not tollerate this...

We give more money to countries that are ruled by crack-pot dictators than our own homeless on the street who are dying.

We have one of the worst hospital rates in Europe, and we are the 4th wealthiest country in the world..

No offence to any americans, but Blair is making us follow Bush into conflict without hesitation.

We invade Iraq, yet nothing is done about the atriocities in Zimbabwe and other African countries with dictators.

More street crime than ever, chavs killing old grannies for a fiver...

political correctness gone mad...
A country where any flag can be flown except the union Jack

And a land where if you are burgaled and defend yourself YOU are likely to be getting a jail sentence....

Where mr prescott is building houses on our greenbelt land like mad...

aah, a green and pleasant land.........

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If you`d just surrendered at Stamfor Bridge and gotten under Norwegian rule, none of that would ever happen. :book:

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Originally Posted by Lentonius

Praise the lord!!!

well, And I think it's gonna be a long long time
Till touch down....

NOOO. the last thing i can stand is another series of rocketman. Did you watch it on the isle of man.....

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no...not at all :laugh4:

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If you`d just surrendered at Stamfor Bridge and gotten under Norwegian rule, none of that would ever happen.

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eh, what about william of normandy?

Man you guys have it all wrong. Come to TEXAS we maybe religous gun nuts but the good kind

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Originally Posted by Lentonius

eh, what about william of normandy?

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We could kick his *** together..

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Originally Posted by strike for the south

Man you guys have it all wrong. Come to TEXAS we maybe religous gun nuts but the good kind

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Too hot. British people can tolerate between 5C and 25C, and get cranky outside this range.

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Originally Posted by BDC

Too hot. British people can tolerate between 5C and 25C, and get cranky outside this range.

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Actualy :book: its more like ~:snowman: 5C - 28C :sweatdrop:
But its true enough :2thumbsup:

And i say Bring back Maggie thatcher!

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And i say Bring back Maggie thatcher!

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yes, that would be good except that she is about eighty seven.

Maybe carol thatcher?

Don't worry, there's always Boris Johnson.

BORIS JOHNSON IS A LEGEND!!!:laugh4: :laugh4: :2thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Lentonius

We invade Iraq, yet nothing is done about the atriocities in Zimbabwe and other African countries with dictators.

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I 100% agree with you on this. The world needs to do something about Rwanda, Uganda, Sudan, Zimbabwe, et cetera.

And now in Britain we can be arrested for any offence. Woohoo. Just waiting for the first awkward government opponant to be arrested for something really minor at an awkward moment.

Deary me, we have another one, another bloody right whinger.

Lent, I am not sure if it would be right to go through your comments and respond, because that would dignify then with a response, so I shall be brief.

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We have extremely high and pointless taxes, people who are scum of the earth that scrounge from our benefits system, and make the honest taxpayer pay for a lowlife to live in a land of luxury where they can do anything they like without the law getting involved

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Firstly why any of this is do to with Blair is beyond me. The Tories had the same level of taxation when they were in office and we had the most right wing leader in Europe. Secondly, we do not have high levels of taxation, we have fairly average levels.

You say pointless taxes? When you walk on a road or at night when you don't need a personal torch to see, when you go to school or see a doctor.... Pointless? Taxes are not only the bedrock of society but one of the most valuable things a person does in their life. When you pay your taxes you show that you care for someone other than your own greedy arse, but even if that isn't your reasoning you can still think of your personal gain. Taxes are every member of societies debt to each other, a bond between people of a country.

The fact that some abuse the system - and I would be concerned by those who don't pay their taxes rather than those who skimp and scrape at the bottom - does not make the system bad or wrong. It simply means there are problems with it, but the problems you mention are quite laughable. You seemingly have had a silver spoon shoved up your arse your whole life that you don't understand the reality of the 'lowlifes' - as you so elequently put it - which you seem to hate. Those 'lowlifes' though maybe not working, I can tell you for a fact, don't live all cosy comfy, they probably have it ten times harder than you will ever know, if they don't work then fine, but if you want to complain about their lack of comradery maybe you should complain about the conditions which we leave the poor in this country in, that is the real disgrace.

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We let in illegal immigrants where any other country in Europe or the world would not tollerate this..

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Read that in the Daily Mail? Or do you not even read that crap, you hear it from your friends in the playground? We are not even the biggest receiver of immigrants in the EU. No other country tolerate it? What bollocks, every country accepts immigrants because it is in their own best interest. Do you know what jobs immigrants do? The hardest, poor paying, filthy jobs in this country and every European country. Just like taxes our whole society is in their debt, but it is far too easy to bash them, after all they are only foreigners!

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We have one of the worst hospital rates in Europe, and we are the 4th wealthiest country in the world..

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Blame that on Thatcher - who you seemingly think is a demi God - she is the one who stripped back investment and ran our NHS down. I think you should look at the figures since Labour have been in power on results from our hospitals, you might shut up spouting such bollocks.

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political correctness gone mad...
A country where any flag can be flown except the union Jack

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A country where to fly a flag in a racist manner is looked on as wrong - and I am proud of that. You may want a nation where to be racist is great, I don't. Flying our country's flag is never looked on as wrong or anything similar, but when it is hijacked and used as a racist tool, it is looked down on. I am quite glad we don't accept it.

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And a land where if you are burgaled and defend yourself YOU are likely to be getting a jail sentence....

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Maybe I am being incredibly old fashioned, but I don't think the idea of everyone taking justice into their own hands and killing, shooting, beating others on their own choosing is a good basis for justice in this country. It is quite right that if someone kills an intruder in their home they are prosecuted, I would not expect a burglar who kills an innocent to be let free, nor would I expect the same to be done for someone who shoots two teenager burglars in the back while they are running away.

There is nothing wrong with our country, there is however a problem with you.

JAG so you belive if a man breaks into your home and you shot him you should go to prison? You have no soul. You my friend are bullocks my knickers are in a twist! Thank god for Texas!

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Originally Posted by Lentonius

Could Britain be any more of a shameful country than it is today?

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Believe me it could. It's always possible to fall a little deeper, but Britain is far from the bottom, so I should go to the grain, QUIT MOANING.:2thumbsup:

I don't know for sure about going to prison because it kind of depends on the situation, but I would say it needs to be looked into. Could have been someone making it seem like a burglary, but really murdering someone. It's happened in the US before (it was on 20/20 the other night)

If someone breaks into your house I think you should have the right to shoot him, but you shouldn't really shoot to kill...

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Originally Posted by Alexanderofmacedon

I don't know for sure about going to prison because it kind of depends on the situation, but I would say it needs to be looked into. Could have been someone making it seem like a burglary, but really murdering someone. It's happened in the US before (it was on 20/20 the other night)

If someone breaks into your house I think you should have the right to shoot him, but you shouldn't really shoot to kill...

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Why not? They broke into your home at that point you shoot to kill so he dosent get your family. that man has no rights

The amount of force that can be used against someone who's broken into your home depends on context more than anything else. If the invader is attempting to harm you or your family then yes, lethal force is justified. However, very few break-ins are committed by blood-hungry psychopaths who want to slaughter you in your bed.

The type of home invasion you're far more likely to encounter is one which has been purely motivated for a desire for your property. In this case, shooting the intruder on site simply to prevent him legging it with your consumer electronics is assinine, unless you believe we should institute the death penalty for burglary, and rightfully illegal.

A human life is worth far more than your TV.

The man broke into my house Im shooting to kill. I dont know what he wants and I sure as hell aint gonna ask him. The man puts his life in your hands when he breaks your front door down.

Good point...

Let's just hope none of us have to think about this anytime in our lives...

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Originally Posted by strike for the south

The man broke into my house Im shooting to kill. I dont know what he wants and I sure as hell aint gonna ask him. The man puts his life in your hands when he breaks your front door down.

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Then you're going to face trial my friend.

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Originally Posted by Soulforged

Then you're going to face trial my friend.

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not here I wont

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Originally Posted by strike for the south

not here I wont

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Wait a second. You're telling me that in Texas I can shoot whoever I want who transpasses my property? That's just nuts even for Texas. Are you sure? Did you look into your legislation? That can't be possible.

i beilive so. Let me find a link

Unfortunetly Soulforged, SFTS is right...

I do believe what he said is correct...:shame:

http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/txcon...00-002300.html

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Section 23 - RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS
Every citizen shall have the right to keep and bear arms in the lawful defense of himself or the State; but the Legislature shall have power, by law, to regulate the wearing of arms, with a view to prevent crime.

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here it is in action http://blisteringcheese.com/index.ph...omments/11228/

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God bless Texas.


Dallas police say a would-be robber is dead after being shot by a store clerk.

Investigators told NBC 5 that the shooting occurred at a Shell station at Interstate 30 and Winslow Road.

The robber was trying to steal two 20-packs of beer when he was shot while trying to get away, police said.

The robber, whose name has not been released, was transported to Baylor Medical Center, where he later died.

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I love my state

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In this case, shooting the intruder on site simply to prevent him legging it with your consumer electronics is assinine, unless you believe we should institute the death penalty for burglary, and rightfully illegal.

A human life is worth far more than your TV.

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Such thinking, that criminals are entitled to protection from homeowners, is absurd. Your argument that shooting a person forcing entry into your home is the same as execution after the criminal has left, then caught and is in the hands of the police is flawed. Criminals have no right to break and enter. Once they cross that line, no level of force should be considered to high. To gamble one's life and the lives of your families on the whim of a criminal is foolish. Acceptance of criminal entry and dominion over your house is morally wrong and the philosophy of slaves and subjects.

Would you accept another country invading your own, stealing all your wealth, and not resist if they said they weren't going to kill your fellow citizens?

Luckily, its legal to defend yourself in the USA. In Colorado, for example, a man was found not guilty of murder for shooting a man who had attacked him but had left his house and was sitting in his car.

http://www.gazette.com/display.php?id=1313093&secid=1

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On Sept. 5, 2004, Hill got into a fight with Knott’s girlfriend, Amanda Padilla, over a missing purse during a party at his house in the 500 block of Potter Circle. Padilla admitted punching Hill before he got a rifle and ordered Padilla and her friend Alessandra Ash out of the house.

The women returned with Knott and Ash’s boyfriend, Anthony Padilla. The four went to Hill’s basement room, where he was asleep, and Amanda Padilla admitting punching him again. She also admitted using brass knuckles, opening a gash in Hill’s head.

Amanda Padilla, who received limited immunity in exchange for her testimony, faces a charge of second-degree assault with a deadly weapon. Anthony Padilla faces a conspiracy charge after he allegedly gave Amanda Padilla the brass knuckles.

When they left Hill’s house, Hill got a rifle, loaded it and fired once from the porch at the car Knott was sitting in. Knott crashed the car into a house and died of a gunshot wound to the back.

The foreman said those facts fit the Make My Day defense.

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Crazed Rabbit

the

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make my day defense

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great name

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I love my state

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I love the USA. ~D

Crazed Rabbit

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Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

I love the USA. ~D

Crazed Rabbit

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No TEXAS IS GODS COUNTRY:2thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by strike for the south

No TEXAS IS GODS COUNTRY:2thumbsup:

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Texas dont have Make My Day.

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Originally Posted by Kaiser of Arabia

Texas dont have Make My Day.

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Its already implied we dont need a catchy its understood:juggle2:

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Originally Posted by strike for the south

I love my state

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I'm not trying to offend you, and I think you're reasonable enough to undertand the following.
First try to keep your passion out of your reason.
Second. As you see the court ruling shows that there's some motive for shooting. It's not simple domiciliary violation, the subject has to enter in an state of guilt before the shooting is justified. This is acceptable within certain boundaries. If the thing you're protecting is of too little value, for example an empty can of beer, then the shooting shouldn't be justified. But if you're protecting your only car and you can't buy another one then the shooting is justified.
But my friend I hope I don't see the day in wich, just by transpasing another's domiciliary dominium I could be shoot and he get away unpunished.

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Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

Would you accept another country invading your own, stealing all your wealth, and not resist if they said they weren't going to kill your fellow citizens?

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Do you see how the irony works.

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Originally Posted by Soulforged

But my friend I hope I don't see the day in wich, just by transpasing another's domiciliary dominium I could be shoot and he get away unpunished.

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well you can do that provided the propertys marked no tresspasing

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Originally Posted by strike for the south

well you can do that provided the propertys marked no tresspasing

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But it isn't as unchecked as you wanted it to be Strike, did you read my little excerpt above?

What the man was after when he breaks in isn't really considered in cases. Its the fact that he violated your property. So if he was after a can of beer or not, if you feel threatened you can shoot to kill. And usual the jury will side with the man who was violated.

To the socialist student...

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Read that in the Daily Mail? Or do you not even read that crap, you hear it from your friends in the playground? We are not even the biggest receiver of immigrants in the EU. No other country tolerate it? What bollocks, every country accepts immigrants because it is in their own best interest.

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No, I read the times actually, which is a good paper. Illegal immigrants DO help in some ways, but if they are offered £540 per month AND a free council house, somebody has to pay. Im not blaming these people, its just that the benefits system has been used in the wrong way. Nowadays, people who dont really need the help can get benefit. For instance, in the USA, there are people to STOP illegal immigrants from mexico and cuba. Each year, over 400000 mexicans are stopped and sent back to mexico.

WE ARE AN ISLAND, YET OVER 1/2 A MILLION ILLEGALQuote:
We have one of the worst hospital rates in Europe, and we are the 4th wealthiest country in the world..

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Blame that on Thatcher - who you seemingly think is a demi God - she is the one who stripped back investment and ran our NHS down. I think you should look at the figures since Labour have been in power on results from our hospitals, you might shut up spouting such bollocks.

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MY ANSWER TO THIS. MARGARET THATCHER JUST DIDNT TAKE ANY BOLLOCKS. THE WORLD'S ECONOMY WAS IN SHAMBLES BACK THEN IF I REMEMBER.
6 MONTHS WAITING LIST ON THE NHS.
ALSO, HERE'S A QUESTION FOR YOU. WHY ARE SO MANY PEOPLE JOINING PRIVATE MEDICAL?


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political correctness gone mad...
A country where any flag can be flown except the union Jack

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A country where to fly a flag in a racist manner is looked on as wrong - and I am proud of that. You may want a nation where to be racist is great, I don't. Flying our country's flag is never looked on as wrong or anything similar, but when it is hijacked and used as a racist tool, it is looked down on. I am quite glad we don't accept it.

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I AGREE WHEN IT COULD BE USED AS RACISM, BUT IF OUR FLAG WAS THE SWASTICA THEN I COULD UNDERSTAND IT. ABOUT POLITICAL CORRECTNESS, CHRISTMAS LIGHTS WERE BANNED IN LOWESTOFT BECAUSE THE COUNCIL DIDNT SEE THAT 'IT FITS IN WITH MORALS OF EQUALITY AND DIVERSITY'

I AM NOT CHRISTIAN BUT OUR COUNTRY SHOULD KEEP AT LEAST SOME TRADITIONS, DONT YOU THINK. MOST PEOPLE OF OTHER CULTURES CELEBRATE CHRISTMAS, NOT IN A RELIGIOS WAY, BUT JUST CELEBRATING THE HOLIDAYS.

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And a land where if you are burgaled and defend yourself YOU are likely to be getting a jail sentence....

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Maybe I am being incredibly old fashioned, but I don't think the idea of everyone taking justice into their own hands and killing, shooting, beating others on their own choosing is a good basis for justice in this country. It is quite right that if someone kills an intruder in their home they are prosecuted, I would not expect a burglar who kills an innocent to be let free, nor would I expect the same to be done for someone who shoots two teenager burglars in the back while they are running away.

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YES. PEOPLE SHOULD BE PROSECUTED, BUT THE LONG AND SHORT OF IT IS THAT IF SOMEBODY INVADES YOUR HOME PLANNING TO STEAL YOUR HARD EARNED POSSESIONS MOST NORMAL PEOPLE WOULD BEAT THE CRAP OUT OF THEM.

I DO NOT THINK THERE IS A PROBLEM WITH USING 'REASONABLE' FORCE TO GET BURGALARS OUT. UNNESSACERY FORCE CANNOT BE TOLLERATED, BUT IT IS STILL ULTIMATELY THE INTRUDERS FAULT FOR INTRUDING.

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There is nothing wrong with our country, there is however a problem with you.

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I THINK I WILL MOVE TO A TEXAS. TEXAS LOOKS THE EXACT OPPOSITE OF THE NANNY STATE...

AS FOR BRITAIN, START PRAYING IF GORDON BROWN TAKES OVER


P.S, I DONT TAKE FIGURES FROM THE DAILY MAIL. THESE FIGURES ARE ALL FROM OFFICIAL GOVERNMENT WEBSITES

It's fine to spout on about equality and suchlike when you don't have to pay for it.

So you met JAG then Lentonius. He likes to pay for things with our money. Then again he thinks that the government has money of it's own. Still when he gets a job and starts to pay taxes he'll probably think again.

PS: Please don't shout mate, I've got one hell of a hangover :laugh4:

For house burglary, I'd say you should only have the "right" to kill if you feel threatened. If you encounter a 14 year old kid in your house trying to steal your DVD and comes at you while you don't know what he's carrying, shoot the lil' bastard. However, if he puts down your DVD, puts his arms in the air and stands a comfortable 3 metres away from you, you can't justifiably shoot him. Not just my opinion, but also the way it works over here.

Welcome Lentonius, nice to have you aboard.

I read an interesting article in the Mail yesterday, which kind of sums all this up.

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Stunned builder dean Osmon was branded a racist by Jobcentre staff after he advertised for a carpenter who could speak English.

Mr Osmon needed his recruit to be able to talk directly with clients and follow complicated job briefings.

But after submitting his advert he was told by one jobcentre worker:' We cant say that, its racists.'

Mr Osmon was then sent a letter from the Jobcentre Plus diversity and race equality team warning that he might have broken the law. It read: ' You informed the contact centre that you were not willing to employ anyone who did not speak English. Where employers discriminate against job applicants on the basis of race, they may be in breach of the race relations act.

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This is just another example of Bliars Britain, we have employed so many people in public sector jobs they are just falling overthemselves to find something to do.

No, I read the times actually, which is a good paper.
The Times actually :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: ...You mean the Sun with big words .

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Originally Posted by Tribesman

No, I read the times actually, which is a good paper.
The Times actually :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: ...You mean the Sun with big words .

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Well if Matthew Parris, Bronwen Maddox and Anatole Kaletsky wrote articles for the Sun then a) not only would the circulation drop but b) I would start to buy it.

Still it could be worse, he could have bought and read Socialist Worker just to get the 'right' information. :wall:

Still it could be worse, he could have bought and read Socialist Worker just to get the 'right' information.
No , Vanguard has the "right" information , Socialist Worker has the "left" , read both for balance:idea2:

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Originally Posted by Tribesman

Still it could be worse, he could have bought and read Socialist Worker just to get the 'right' information.
No , Vanguard has the "right" information , Socialist Worker has the "left" , read both for balance:idea2:

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ha ha ha very good, such sophistry taking advantage of a poorly (that's hungover) man. :laugh4: :2thumbsup: :inquisitive:

Lentonius calm down a bit...or just switch off the capslock...it's not comfortable reading for my eyes:2thumbsup:

Ok, onto the actual debate

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A country where to fly a flag in a racist manner is looked on as wrong - and I am proud of that. You may want a nation where to be racist is great, I don't. Flying our country's flag is never looked on as wrong or anything similar, but when it is hijacked and used as a racist tool, it is looked down on. I am quite glad we don't accept it.

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Yes, I agree with you. It's just that sometimes people get done for putting up the flag...when it's not used in a racist manner. A similar deal with nativity scenes which are apparantly offensive to (some) muslims

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Blame that on Thatcher - who you seemingly think is a demi God - she is the one who stripped back investment and ran our NHS down. I think you should look at the figures since Labour have been in power on results from our hospitals, you might shut up spouting such bollocks.

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We also have record breaking numbers of administrators in hospitals:embarassed: Let's just say I'm all in favour of investment (I don't pay for it yet) but it has to go to the right places. At the moment I believe it doesn't. Most of my family works/has worked for the NHS (well the ones in England anyway)

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Maybe I am being incredibly old fashioned, but I don't think the idea of everyone taking justice into their own hands and killing, shooting, beating others on their own choosing is a good basis for justice in this country. It is quite right that if someone kills an intruder in their home they are prosecuted, I would not expect a burglar who kills an innocent to be let free, nor would I expect the same to be done for someone who shoots two teenager burglars in the back while they are running away.

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I know and accept we shouldn't really go round doing on the spot executions of burglars, that's positively idiotic. I also know and understand that the average burglar is hardly about to go round killing every living thing in the hosue with a flamethrower.:skull:

But put it this way, if your hosue gets burgled (sp?) do you just sit there and let him steal all your hard earned stuff? Even if you do phone the police etcetc and he gets prosecuted, you've lost money/stuff because some person has decided to steal it off you. I'm not saying shoot him with a taser then torture him with thumbscrews by any means but you get the picture. You have to look at it from both sides of the coin.

BTW: in this situation I'd probably go back to sleep because if I confronted the burglar I'd probably get knifed

Lent - I understand you are new here so you probably don't understand that pretty much most people here think that typing with caps lock on is rather rude.

I can't really respond to your rant, because I am not in the business of deciphering them, feel free to post again.

IA - of course the govt has money of it's own, if you live in a society which has taxes you have to accept that fact.

Shades - yet another Mail story eh? I don't think many people take much notice of the Mail and I am not one of them.

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We also have record breaking numbers of administrators in hospitals

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The current system was set up by... Yep it's Thatcher. She changed the structure of management in the NHS to what it is currently. Most of the problems with the NHS and society can be traced directly back to her.

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We also have record breaking numbers of administrators in hospitals

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The current system was set up by... Yep it's Thatcher. She changed the structure of management in the NHS to what it is currently. Most of the problems with the NHS and society can be traced directly back to her.

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When did we start talking about the NHS? Am I going mad

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yet another Mail story eh? I don't think many people take much notice of the Mail and I am not one of them.

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Yep people dont like the truth, it goes against the Labour spin machine. I thought the mail had the second largest readership figures behind the sun :book:

More people read the 'Daily Record' than the 'Guardian', what does that tell you about peoples interpretation about its contents. Only the Independant, FT and Racing post have less readers :laugh4:

I'm quite happy with Britain's gun laws. I'd rather the guy who wants to mug me just punches me and runs off rather than shooting me then running off.

Anyway just be so tempting next time you see a group of idiots in pyjamas outside McDonalds.

You're wasting your breath JAG, the org is gun-nut country, all KKK and flag masturbators.

Anyway, I think taxes should be a lot higher, like in those nice, well-run Nordic countries.

i agree with the liverpool guy.

We also need to learn spend the taxes on the right things before bumping them up higher

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Originally Posted by Red Peasant

You're wasting your breath JAG, the org is gun-nut country, all KKK and flag masturbators.

Anyway, I think taxes should be a lot higher, like in those nice, well-run Nordic countries.

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:bow:

You are of course right, but you have to entertain them from time to time. ;)

As far as I understand (and I'm hardly a gun nut, KKK fan or nationalist) the record increase in admins (everywhere though especially in hospitals) was under labour.

And the reason I bring up the NHS is it seems to have changed dramatically under Blair...whether it's because I was unaware of these structural faults at the age of 7 I don't know but you get the picture

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Originally Posted by Red Peasant

You're wasting your breath JAG, the org is gun-nut country, all KKK and flag masturbators.

Anyway, I think taxes should be a lot higher, like in those nice, well-run Nordic countries.

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When ya can't beat them, launch personal attacks, huh?

And I seem to recall that some scandinavian countries have a little immigrant problem too.

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I'm quite happy with Britain's gun laws. I'd rather the guy who wants to mug me just punches me and runs off rather than shooting me then running off.

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What a pathetic attitude. Do you think a mugger, who is already breaking the law, would be stopped by mere laws if he wanted a gun?

In fact, resisting getting mugged with a firearm results in the lowest occurrence of injury, in the USA.

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IA - of course the govt has money of it's own, if you live in a society which has taxes you have to accept that fact.

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You don't seem to realize that all the money the government spends has to come from its citizens, or, in this case, its subjects.

I also watched a old episode of Flash Gordon recently, about 'Akim the Terrible', a villain who rules a planet of lawlessness, and where men who try to protect and defend old people getting robbed are thrown in prison. Sounds rather like modern Britain, doesn't it?

Crazed Rabbit

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Originally Posted by JAG

:bow:

You are of course right, but you have to entertain them from time to time. ;)

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How was that different from a conservative saying "Oh, yeah?! well...uhhh....uhhhh....you're a COMMIE!" in the middle of a debate? (Refering to the post that was quoted)

:laugh4:

“A similar deal with nativity scenes which are apparantly offensive to (some) muslims” Why?

“WE ARE AN ISLAND, YET OVER 1/2 A MILLION ILLEGAL”: How do you count illegal whatsoever? Immigrants, burglars, criminals? These kinds of figures are non-sense… It is like the secret meetings in unknown place to speak of possible topics. When you know so little, just shut-up…

Now, I am not English, I live in England. And yes, sometimes things are going mad, like 50 P price raise on a £1 tram ticket in two years. And yes politically correctness became too much.
I was watching the 100 years anniversary of the Separation between state and Churches in France. And what was said by the Representatives in 1905 should be prosecuted in England nowadays because it would an offence against Religions. One extreme-left representative (Radical) said Religions are superstitions, defying logic and science. What? Can’t say that today. It is hurting sensibilities…:dizzy2:

To come back to the Xmas things, it is stupid. For me, all religions a fairy tales, so let’s cancelled Ramadan, Yom Kippur and all these teachings of non-sense like the guy who allegedly walked on water, the all of them to whom God spoke to etc… But no. Because yes, this is a part of traditions. Father Xmas doesn’t exist but we still celebrate him.:juggle2:

The Flag story is the same kind of things. Why should I be offended because English waves an English flag … Actually, I live in England. Now, he can wave a English flag in France, I don’t bother either. He is English. Now, the offence would be if he burns a French Flag in France (except if it is during a demonstration against the EU Agriculture funds, nuclear power plants and missile or others highly political debate).

For the Sun newspaper and its anti-French stand, I find it funny. First because the chanter of Englishness is owned by an American, second because it puts my British colleague uneasy when I see the titles. This English obsession about the French is incredible…
And about the people put in jail because they killed a burglar, can I remind you that an innocent man was killed by mistake by the police not so long ago. Thing about it, think what the poor police-officer must feel now… And I am not joking. Because I remember a debate in French TV: a guy, pharmacist, killed a burglar. Of course, he acquitted by the Jury. But I always remember what he said to the guy for guns and immediate death penalty: I killed somebody. I can’t believe I killed somebody. I terminate a human life; I saw the blood, the guts all over. I can’t sleep anymore…
So, even when a man is right, it is a little bit more complicated.

Well, perhaps not in Texas.:skull:

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Would you accept another country invading your own, stealing all your wealth, and not resist if they said they weren't going to kill your fellow citizens?

Luckily, its legal to defend yourself in the USA. In Colorado, for example, a man was found not guilty of murder for shooting a man who had attacked him but had left his house and was sitting in his car.

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Your analogy is flawed-this kind of thing would provoke a serious economic crisis, which wouldl likely result in the deaths of citizens of the pillaged nation. Having your TV nicked isn't quite in the same league.

In the example you gave, I would sympathise if the fellow had taken such lethal action while he was being assaulted. However, it disturbs me that you believe it proper for the perpetrator to be shot as he attempted to flee, when he was clearly no longer a threat to anyone.

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“A similar deal with nativity scenes which are apparantly offensive to (some) muslims” Why?

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Because some people are idiots. I suspect it was the people behind the decision to not show them in this case.

Otherwise I find the wearing of clothes by pretty looking women aged 18-25 offensive.

Typo i meant immigrants that illegaly enter the country to live. the sort of folk that like to hop into trucks and cross the channel. The amazing thing is we are sealed off from the mainland yet so many illegal immigrants enter.

a lot of illegal imigrants have a very valid reason fro wanting to come to our country, in search of a better life or escape from a troubled area of the world, i realize that the UK can only handle so many people, but i cant help but sympathize...

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Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

When ya can't beat them, launch personal attacks, huh?

And I seem to recall that some scandinavian countries have a little immigrant problem too.

What a pathetic attitude. Do you think a mugger, who is already breaking the law, would be stopped by mere laws if he wanted a gun?

In fact, resisting getting mugged with a firearm results in the lowest occurrence of injury, in the USA.

You don't seem to realize that all the money the government spends has to come from its citizens, or, in this case, its subjects.

I also watched a old episode of Flash Gordon recently, about 'Akim the Terrible', a villain who rules a planet of lawlessness, and where men who try to protect and defend old people getting robbed are thrown in prison. Sounds rather like modern Britain, doesn't it?

Crazed Rabbit

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Who are you? You obviously see a reflection of yourself in what I said, so if the insult fits, then wear it ;-)

As for this black picture of Britain that is being painted in this thread, well, I live in Liverpool which, according to common received opinion (fostered by bad TV programmes and even worse newspapers), is a baaaad violent place where nobody wants to live, but that is total rubbish. In my 41 years I have never witnessed any serious violence or been the victim of violence. However, surely I must have, I was born and lived for many years in a district with one of the worst 'reputations', a diverse ethnic mix and a constant supply of new immigrants (inc. many 'asylum seekers'). I never feel threatened and I hear of very little violence. I just don't see this near total collapse of British society that all these nutters rave on about. Britain is a great place to live, always has been, and hopefully always will be. (I would like to add that a black teenager was recently murdered in this city because of the colour of his skin but this was, however tragic, a very rare exception, as can be ascertained by the attention it received).

I can add that I have never felt the need to carry or own a gun, nor never will do.

Britain is economicly doing better then most EU countries...oh wait, I'm only supposed to mention bad things in this thread right? Damn Blair, it's all his fault! Or was it Barrosso's fault? I'm confused :laugh4:

I thought Britain was a civilized, tolerant country. What's with all this "I hate..." speech? What's in your tea?

Of course I would want a better life If i was in poverty.

People like Mugabe keep Africa in povery, not the food crisis.
The west gives a huge amount of aid to them and then the dictators buy some nice tanks to blow their own people up with

The british army, possibly the best trained in the world, could take on some of these evil men instead of helping George run into an oilfield so he can imprison a man that annoyed his dad a decade ago...

It would sort out poverty, we could give Africa condoms more easily and help AIDS, and there wouldn't be as many illegail immigrants as Africa would economically start to climb up from its poverty position and the people would be HAPPY

people's money usually ends up in the hands of the dictators, so that the seven year old soldiers can use sharp knives to kill their kin...

Not being a war-a-holic but really kicking the dictators and stopping the weekly civil-wars would help Africa more

Selective memory? Are you forgetting about Britain’s involvement in Iraq after WW I, or about the cease fire after the '91 Gulf War?

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Originally Posted by Vladimir

Selective memory? Are you forgetting about Britain’s involvement in Iraq after WW I, or about the cease fire after the '91 Gulf War?

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saddam should have been destroyed in 91, a fair few more iraq's would still be alive if we had finished the job then.

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Who are you? You obviously see a reflection of yourself in what I said, so if the insult fits, then wear it ;-)

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I see no reflection of myself, only a reflection of the ignorant thinking of people such as yourself.

Crazed Rabbit

Lol!

I make a general comment aimed at nobody in particular, yet you take it as a personal insult ... the recognition is yours I'm afraid. I didn't have you in mind. Yet, you feel free to aim personal insults at me. I don't mind, I'm big enough to take it. Have a nice day, as you guys say. :2thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by ShadesWolf

saddam should have been destroyed in 91, a fair few more iraq's would still be alive if we had finished the job then.

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He couldn't have been, remember the UN mandate? We definitely would have lost the Arab members of our coalition. Resolution 1441 was sufficiently vague by promising "severe repercussions" if he didn't comply that we went in this time. Think Oil for Food Scandal as to why. Tony Blair's Britain was one of 30 giving active or logistical support to our recent war effort. I love the Brits, goofy teeth and all. They're not a bunch of "fog breathers" (Family Guy) but some tough bastards (in the good sense of course). I'm all about finishing the job. It's not who starts the fight but who finishes it that's important. Bush '41 was one of those stability over liberty types because democracy is messy. Popular support was also important too; one of the reasons we stopped the war was because the "highway of death" was making the news too much.

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Originally Posted by Red Peasant

Lol!

I make a general comment aimed at nobody in particular, yet you take it as a personal insult ... the recognition is yours I'm afraid. I didn't have you in mind. Yet, you feel free to aim personal insults at me. I don't mind, I'm big enough to take it. Have a nice day, as you guys say. :2thumbsup:

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No one hear is deeply offended by some thing a stranger says on the internet. The problem is that Ad Hominem arguments are immature and make the debate go down hill because after about 10 posts, the debate starts looking like this:

person 1: omgz Ur teh commie
person 2: am not
Person 1: am 2
Person 3: u guyz r soooo g@y
Person 2: STFU, u fagzorz

:wall:

Ah, 'ad hominem' to + accusative case, to the man/person. The thing is, I didn't address it to the Crazy fella, he just recognized himself. Funny innit! ;)

A makes a statement. B argues with A. C tells Person A that he's wasting his time because the people of A's political group are: members of the klu klux klan , commies, infidels, religious fanatics, ect. Not very hard to connect the dots.

The Ad Hominem fallacy

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Originally Posted by Nizkor Project

Description of Ad Hominem
Translated from Latin to English, "Ad Hominem" means "against the man" or "against the person."

An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument. Typically, this fallacy involves two steps. First, an attack against the character of person making the claim, her circumstances, or her actions is made (or the character, circumstances, or actions of the person reporting the claim). Second, this attack is taken to be evidence against the claim or argument the person in question is making (or presenting). This type of "argument" has the following form:


Person A makes claim X.
Person B makes an attack on person A.
Therefore A's claim is false.
The reason why an Ad Hominem (of any kind) is a fallacy is that the character, circumstances, or actions of a person do not (in most cases) have a bearing on the truth or falsity of the claim being made (or the quality of the argument being made).

Example of Ad Hominem

Bill: "I believe that abortion is morally wrong."
Dave: "Of course you would say that, you're a priest."
Bill: "What about the arguments I gave to support my position?"
Dave: "Those don't count. Like I said, you're a priest, so you have to say that abortion is wrong. Further, you are just a lackey to the Pope, so I can't believe what you say."

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Now lets review your post Red Harvest

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Originally Posted by Red Harvest

You're wasting your breath JAG, the org is gun-nut country, all KKK and flag masturbators.

Anyway, I think taxes should be a lot higher, like in those nice, well-run Nordic countries.

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Now what part of the first sentence is toward the arguement of this thread? Or is it directed at the person's of the .org who are presenting their arguements in this thread?

:laugh4: Hey, just having fun with Latin. I don't need to be preached to about the nature of rhetorical techniques and arguments by people who know how to use google.

As for the topic, I'm not particularly enamoured of the guy but I don't hate Britain under Blair. However, I realise some people have 'issues', although I think that they blow the problems of our society -and what society doesn't have problems- out of all proportion.