should i bother coming back?

i've been away from RTW ever since it became clear that the save-load bug was not going to be fixed anytime soon.

but now that it supposedly IS fixed, i decided to come back and take a look, for old times' sake. alas, i can't say i'm all that encouraged...

even now, i still see one problem after another being uncovered in the post-1.5/1.6 threads, newly introduced bugs, and/or issues which have apparently been existant since v1.0 (!!!!)

plus, it looks like neither a 1.5/1.6-compatible RTR nor EB will be ready anytime soon, and given that 1.5/1.6 still needs work from CA (assuming they will even bring closure to this whole affair), that means yet more waiting.

so, for those who knew me "back in the day", when i was a more active participant on these forums (both here and TWC) - can any of you honestly recommend that i invest my time and effort into RTW again?

WHOOPS, mods, please move this to the colosseum/general discussion :oops:

Even though it's in the wrong forum, perhaps you should give EB a try. I'm sure it'll rock your world.

Don't do it, you might sucked in again by the pretty graphics if you download EB. But after a while you will start noticing the many flaws in the AI. And that was for me reason enough to finally abandon TW for good.

i never stoped play rtw since i got it (first christmas it came out) because im 14 and kinda 14 like so when i see a "bug" i just think uh lets work around that to myself and i didn't notice a fraction of the bugs listed in the readmes for the patches so i would say play some more why not

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Originally Posted by jedispongee

perhaps you should give EB a try. I'm sure it'll rock your world.

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yeah, but not if i have to go back to 1.2 and have to deal with the save-load bug again.

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Originally Posted by tai4ji2x

i've been away from RTW ever since it became clear that the save-load bug was not going to be fixed anytime soon.

but now that it supposedly IS fixed, i decided to come back and take a look, for old times' sake. alas, i can't say i'm all that encouraged...

even now, i still see one problem after another being uncovered in the post-1.5/1.6 threads, newly introduced bugs, and/or issues which have apparently been existant since v1.0 (!!!!)

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R:TW 1.5 is still the same game, but works a lot better. The battle and strategic A.I. have been improved and the battles are finally balanced: no more light-cavalry rushes. There are indeed two bugs (a memory leak and a pila-cheat), but all other gameplay-marring bugs have been sorted out. However, battle A.I. is still not quite on par with M:TW and the campaign is rather easy.

I don't have BI, but I am told it is better, if still not quite as good as M:TW.

As for me, I am playing the occasional game with EB and waiting until it is ported to 1.5. If they can get 1.2 to be so interesting, EB 1.5 must be really a blast.

I wondered that also, till I got BI.

It is now a MUCH better game. Still some problems, but now at least playable.

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Originally Posted by Duke John

Don't do it, you might sucked in again by the pretty graphics if you download EB. But after a while you will start noticing the many flaws in the AI. And that was for me reason enough to finally abandon TW for good.

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The AI is significantly better in EB...

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Originally Posted by Duke John

Don't do it, you might sucked in again by the pretty graphics if you download EB. But after a while you will start noticing the many flaws in the AI. And that was for me reason enough to finally abandon TW for good.

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lol...Duke, you tried the beta?..or are you basing that judgement on the bits of EB you saw months ago whilst an EB member... for those couple of minutes. :2thumbsup:

If you haven't already..give it a whirl.

my2bob

well, it looks like i should still wait until the mods have migrated to 1.5/6 or later before making a more conclusive judgement. until then, i suppose i'll try to retain interest and also hope that CA does indeed continue to better support its product.

in the meantime, there's always civ4... :idea2:

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Originally Posted by tai4ji2x

i've been away from RTW ever since it became clear that the save-load bug was not going to be fixed anytime soon.

but now that it supposedly IS fixed, i decided to come back and take a look, for old times' sake. alas, i can't say i'm all that encouraged...

even now, i still see one problem after another being uncovered in the post-1.5/1.6 threads, newly introduced bugs, and/or issues which have apparently been existant since v1.0 (!!!!)

plus, it looks like neither a 1.5/1.6-compatible RTR nor EB will be ready anytime soon, and given that 1.5/1.6 still needs work from CA (assuming they will even bring closure to this whole affair), that means yet more waiting.

so, for those who knew me "back in the day", when i was a more active participant on these forums (both here and TWC) - can any of you honestly recommend that i invest my time and effort into RTW again?

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Nicely cut and pasted from TWCenter. ~:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Slug For A Butt

Nicely cut and pasted from TWCenter. ~:rolleyes:

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um... so what? ~:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Reenk Roink

The AI is significantly better in EB...

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This is highly unlikely considering that the AI is hardcoded and therefore not modable.
You may however prefer the unit balance and campaign map perhaps?

AI formations can be moded.
Good improvement in this area can significantly increase battle AI.

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This is highly unlikely considering that the AI is hardcoded and therefore not modable.

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But EB are the HaXoRz!!!111!


:shame: I know...

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Originally Posted by Intrepid Sidekick

This is highly unlikely considering that the AI is hardcoded and therefore not modable.

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Ahum... true, but it is possible to influence the AI's behaviour through the unit strength and production balance (and a few other things). That is probably what has happened here - ain't it great when you have lots of time to balance things after the game is finished :2thumbsup:

I haven't tried the EB beta yet, as I'm reluctant to go back to 1.2 and the issues around it. However, I can recommend getting BI, as it does improve gameplay all round. Sure, there are still minor niggles, but it is a much more rounded experience in my opinion. Admittedly, I still find the unit movement too fast for my personal taste, but editing one text file to reduce this is not exactly a major strain.

Can someone clarify Me?
I had Rtw since 1st day but after a few days trying to get used to hwat at the time seems to Me a stupid behavor on the battles (2 fast to enjoy them properly) and 2d strategic map that I didnt had the time to figure or to enjoy I unistaled it.
Now, after more then a year as I saw the RTR gold version avaiable I decided to give it another try.
Already got everyhting working but didnt had time to try any battle nor any save.
So My questions are:
Are the battles more like on Mtw, where any can have a little time to watch and think before they ended?
Are any pbls while doing saves on the strategic map (As I never save while on battles, already big pbls with Mtw, seems same with Rtw)?

heehee, i actually got CA staff to notice my post. :2thumbsup:

well, at least maybe that's a good sign things have improved, if ever so slightly.

in the meantime, yeah, i think i'm going to wait until the 1.5/6 ports of the mods start to get fleshed out. i just can't see myself ever going back to vanilla. again, i only hope i'll still be interested when the time comes.

To be honest with the patch and Player1's 'bug fix' mod I am finding the vanilla game perfectly playable. In fact feeling the need to fight some Greeks (just watched Alexander) I has started up a RTW (not even BI) game and it is running pretty well with out the AI doing anything noticiable stupid so far.

There are still little niggles like the excessive uberness of the General's cavalry, but overall the game seems to play better. I had forgotten how easy RTW seems relative to RTW:BI...

I would love to try EB but I just don't want to go back to 1.2 so I am playing vanilla and waiting to see what happens with RTR 7...

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Originally Posted by JeromeGrasdyke

Ahum... true, but it is possible to influence the AI's behaviour through the unit strength and production balance (and a few other things). That is probably what has happened here - ain't it great when you have lots of time to balance things after the game is finished :2thumbsup:

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To be honest, I thought EB's battle A.I. was actually less good then that of R:TW 1.5. However, the slower battles and different unit battles helped it a lot so the battles were more equal. There was also no sign of the promised historical formations. However, I admit I didn't play it that much, so perhaps I overlooked it. Maybe I ought to install the DarthFormations mod to see what happens.

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Originally Posted by Ludens

To be honest, I thought EB's battle A.I. was actually less good then that of R:TW 1.5.

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While the AI behave better in EB(but even more in Darthmod) but they have just balanced out the stats so that you have a tougher time but the AI still suffer from the same flaws such as they rarely try to flank.
This was improved in 1.5.
So EB can't beat the AI in 1.5 no matter how hard they try.
EB with 1.5 will be a deadly combination however :2thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by TB666

While the AI behave better in EB(but even more in Darthmod) but they have just balanced out the stats so that you have a tougher time but the AI still suffer from the same flaws such as they rarely try to flank.
This was improved in 1.5.
So EB can't beat the AI in 1.5 no matter how hard they try.
EB with 1.5 will be a deadly combination however :2thumbsup:

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EB plus a host of other mods like darth's and SPQR WITH 1.5 is almost highly anticipated across here and TWC i reckon ;) but rite now i'm playing 1.5 vanilla with the bug fixer by player1 and i say its definitely better than 1.2 although my roman neighbours like me, seem to be steamrolling whoever they meet ^_^
so while the AI has improved, holding the line beta, flanking, trying to out-manuvere sometimes, i still manage to beat it pretty convincingly and i'm ain't no tactical genius:no:

but the reason why i came back is cos CA has actually patched it and release standalones for RTW without the need for BI. so we certainly have come a long way...esp from the past fiasco
hopefully the support keeps on improving!

so to sum it up, a better experience but as always, the mods will make it much better :2thumbsup: and so i do recommend u kick off with vanilla, perhaps to re-familiarise with the RTW controls and gameplay ;)

Cheers

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Originally Posted by PSYCHO V

lol...Duke, you tried the beta?..or are you basing that judgement on the bits of EB you saw months ago whilst an EB member... for those couple of minutes. :2thumbsup:

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If only I were a member for more than just a few minutes...
http://files.upl.silentwhisper.net/u.../rtw_trees.jpg

But no, I did not try the current beta since in my opinion no matter how good R:TW can look its AI will always spoil the game.

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Originally Posted by Duke John

If only I were a member for more than just a few minutes...
http://files.upl.silentwhisper.net/u.../rtw_trees.jpg

But no, I did not try the current beta since in my opinion no matter how good R:TW can look its AI will always spoil the game.

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Duke what are those trees from? Are those from EB or some other mod?

Or from BI?

I'm dying to know!

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Originally Posted by fallen851

Duke what are those trees from? Are those from EB or some other mod? Or from BI?

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They aren't from EB, or if they are then they haven't been implemented in the open beta. They might be from the abandoned Sengoku Jidai modification (as I know Duke John worked on that one), but the BI units and banners suggest a later date.

The old AI debate, which motivated me to begin my mod which has now progressed to WarMap II for BI.

Just a few simple tweaks, unit balancing, removing the weaker units from the equation and using deeper unit ranks to give the AI a more solid battle line and more maneuverable units.

Sure the AI still has some issues, but with the above tweaks I am having the most consistently challenging battles I have had with any of the TW games.
Which leaves me in no doubt that RTW and BI are head and shoulders above the previous TW games not just in the graphics but especially in the much improved AI.

p.s. Is there any chance I can use the battlefield terrain in the above screen shots for my WarMap mod ?

I need to get my hands on trees like that, where can I get them?

Is there a variety of "tree mods" out there?

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Originally Posted by IceTorque

Which leaves me in no doubt that RTW and BI are head and shoulders above the previous TW games not just in the graphics but especially in the much improved AI.

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The R:TW A.I. frontally attacks strong units with weaker units, runs its troops back and forth exhausting them quickly, has little sense of terrain advantage, does not know how to set a tactical ambush, ignores hidden troops even when it saw them go into hiding; all things the M:TW A.I. did not do. Unless BI has improved on these matters, I do wonder on your assertion of R:TW's superiority.

Ludens, that may be so. But with a few simple tweaks you can get consistently high quality and challenging battles.

I played the crap out of STW and MTW both vanilla.
I just could'nt play Vanilla RTW so I tried some mods, When they did'nt do it for me I learned how to make my own mod.

Sure I miss those ambushes too, but I am now having the most consistently challenging battles I have ever had, not to mention seeing the AI do things like never before.
Like keeping a reserve unit if you have a non-committed unit, pulling up a
unit(s) mid charge to counter your flanking attack. To name but two examples.

Sure there is still many issues but by simply concentrating on it's strengths and minimizing it's weak points it is possible to be challenged like never before.

Lets not forget RTW is new. Auto gen terrain, new strat map etc.
So when a game company has the balls to try something new and not simply
remake the same bloody game with bold new graphics.
They should be applauded for their guts, and not mocked when they stumble.

I played AOE and AOEII but I can't stand to look at AOEIII coz it's the same damn game.
Do you really want to be playing the same game year after year.
We are all TW fans and I am sure CA have heard our concerns.
So lets stop knocking the game for what it did wrong and start enjoying it for what it did right.

I like to think the next TW game is goin to rock all of our little fantasy worlds.

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Originally Posted by IceTorque

We are all TW fans and I am sure CA have heard our concerns.
So lets stop knocking the game for what it did wrong and start enjoying it for what it did right.

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Considering we have had 2 posts from CA, and for every poster there is quite a few people who read the thread. This thread has had 30 posts and 824 views... so lets assume that the 2 CA posts mean that there has been 55 views by CA (probably a bit high)... but I bet some are reading it today. :book:

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Lets not forget RTW is new. Auto gen terrain, new strat map etc.
So when a game company has the balls to try something new and not simply
remake the same bloody game with bold new graphics.
They should be applauded for their guts, and not mocked when they stumble.

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I agree entirely. However, I don't see why that means I cannot point out the flaws. I was (and to a lesser extent still am) disappointed with the game, and think that a lot of potential has been wasted.

So the consesus seems to be 'better, a bit - but wait fopr EB to be 1.5'd'?

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Originally Posted by Butcher

So the consesus seems to be 'better, a bit - but wait fopr EB to be 1.5'd'?

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I found playing RTR to be as good as MTW or STW was. I've also got a lot of time for Barbarian Invasion. I admit am not inclined to go back to vanilla RTW (unless it were for a PBM) as RTR covers similar ground with lashings of extra historical flavour and some nice gameplay improvements (esp. restrictions on recruitment).

EB seems fantastic, although I am waiting for the next iteration as my Roman game is so plagued with CTDs, it's stopped being fun.