Peasants

I have been playing the MTW for about one year already and I love the game. I have found many very interesting units in several factions, but there is this one that particularly calls my attention.

Peasants are by far, the cheapest units of them all. That is a great advantage and makes them specially useful for garrisoning provinces and castles/forts.

They also have a good number of troops but a very low force of attack and defence and the lowest morale. Although I have faced to some high valour units through my games that have made my men sweat a little to beat them, and I have used them myself for some flanking tactics successfully as well.

I have also found their generals get some of the highest acumens and therefore, some of my best governors (I assume I am not the only one) They are good garrisoning during sieges and they become expendible when necessary to sacrifice some troops to achieve some victories.

But besides their military aspects, I found them very valuable for garrisoning, as I said; because their high acumen. I wonder ¿is there a way to get the most benefits of this virtues? Is it recommendable to have more than one Peasant unit (despites possible rebellions) to increase acumen or income in a Province? What is the best way to get the most of them?

A governor can gain acumen by building (especially farm). They usually get "highly educated" which gives 2 extra acumen or "avarice" which gives some acumens but deducts happiness. I don't know which 'action' gives what vice. All I know is building farms and stuff gives at least an extra acumen.

Just assign the title to those with at least 4 or 5 feathers and keep building stuff.

garrisoning and absorbing missile fire is what peasants are good for, although i agree that they're worth bringing to a fight if they have high valour (say, more than 4). for cheap flankers, i prefer urban militia, they hit harder (especially against armoured stuff), last longer and are a smaller unit and therefore more manouvreable. if you have VI you can take peasants along for seiges and let them use up all the defender's boiling oil (i think each gate has 4 shots of oil). crispy fried peasant, mmm.
i often garrison using two units of peasants, their support costs are laughable and the extra taxes you can get by doing this is worth it, unless it's a really crap province. i've never had a unit come out of the building queue with higher than 4 acumen (other than royals/characters), but don't stop until you have all your governors on this as a minimum...peasants are cheap, and you can keep building and disbanding until you get 4 acumen units. my best governors, like yours, are invariably peasants, anything else is really a waste of a fighting unit (unless you get a 9-acumen character and stick him somewhere like Venice).

Talking about governers, do they have to stay in the province to have the full effect? I tend to find the best accumen guy in the army which conquers the province, give him the title then put him back with the army. More often than not, the army moves on, taking the governer with them. Does this cause problems?:stupido:

I think peasants are pretty much useless. Their upkeep IIRC is 37. That's not the cheapest around, as you can have two units of arbalests or woodsmen for 44 (22 each) and those two units will be much better in battle. I like to keep fairly good units as garrisons, in order to have backup troops that can be called on if needed. That's why I prefer FS, Billmen or FMAA as garrisons even if it is below the 100-man level. At least those units can defend themselves against a possible bandit/peasant rebellion.

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Talking about governers, do they have to stay in the province to have the full effect?

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i think it says in the manual somewhere that provinces become less loyal if their governor is absent. i don't know if the effect of his stats and V&Vs becomes reduced or negated though. on many of them it says '+20% zeal if governing' or whatever, but that doesn't mean he has to physically be there...

im a fanatics person myself :) and i also like basic spearman as i thnik the look groovy :P

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Originally Posted by Marquis de Said

I think peasants are pretty much useless. Their upkeep IIRC is 37. That's not the cheapest around

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Actually, if you have VI installed (which is quite clear that you don't) then their upkeep has been lowered to 12, which is definately the cheapest around.

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Originally Posted by matteus the inbred

i think it says in the manual somewhere that provinces become less loyal if their governor is absent. i don't know if the effect of his stats and V&Vs becomes reduced or negated though. on many of them it says '+20% zeal if governing' or whatever, but that doesn't mean he has to physically be there...

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that's what I don't like in RTW.


you have to have a family memeber physically in the stupid settlement to run it.


in MTW you just give the bastard a piece of paper and your done with it

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Originally Posted by Cowhead418

Actually, if you have VI installed (which is quite clear that you don't) then their upkeep has been lowered to 12, which is definately the cheapest around.

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yeah, i thought that had happened, hence my reasoning. thanks man.

prior to that i tended to use vanilla spears or urban militia, costwise you might as well. still use better stuff to garrison frontier or front line provinces, often including artillery. people knock mangonels and catapults for en masse battlefield use, but they can be very effective if backed up by archers. anyway, it's good fun chucking rocks at people!

On the acumen/governor's question, are acumen bonuses and penalties reflected on the number of feathers shown, or are they in addition to the feathers?

In vanilla MTW I think peasants are still the best value for a garrison. I know woodsmen have a lower upkeep, but they're also smaller units. The price per man is quite a bit lower for peasants. Of course I'm talking about garissons in interior provinces or provinces that I have securely protected from a sea invasion, so their fighting ability means nothing. Also, I leave all my taxes on high as long as happiness stays up, and this tends to give your governors some bad vices. If they are peasants, I can just disband a corrupt governor and replace him fairly easily.

Sometimes I'll find a spear or archer or some other unit with a high acumen general. When that happens, I give him the title, but I use his men to reinforce other units, leaving that expensive governor with maybe five guys in his army backed up by a unit or two of peasants to keep happiness up.

Also, don't forget about spies. They are very effective at keeping up happiness. They cost a little more to train, but have no upkeep!

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Originally Posted by King Kurt

Talking about governers, do they have to stay in the province to have the full effect? I tend to find the best accumen guy in the army which conquers the province, give him the title then put him back with the army. More often than not, the army moves on, taking the governer with them. Does this cause problems?:stupido:

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No, it doesn't, despite what it says in the manual. In fact, fighting governors seem to get less vices. However, province-related virtues go the commander of the stack the governor of the province is in, not the governor himself. This is a nice, if cheesy way to gain farmer- and builder-virtues for your princes, but your governors won't improve unles they are leading the stack.

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Originally Posted by gunslinger

On the acumen/governor's question, are acumen bonuses and penalties reflected on the number of feathers shown, or are they in addition to the feathers?

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The bonuses and penalties are reflected in the number of feathers, but seperate trade or farming bonuses are not.

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Originally Posted by Ludens

... This is a nice, if cheesy way to gain farmer- and builder-virtues for your princes, but your governors won't improve unles they are leading the stack.

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Hmpf I never knew that. I guess sometimes it pays to have a loner governor.

Edit: Also its nice to hear their praises for once.

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Originally Posted by Lanemerkel1

that's what I don't like in RTW.


you have to have a family memeber physically in the stupid settlement to run it.


in MTW you just give the bastard a piece of paper and your done with it

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Actually, you can uncheck an option square that should allow you to run every single settlement without the need of a family member.

He probably means you only get the governor boni if the fellow is actually inside the settlement, as opposed to MTW, where it´s enough the guy has that tiny scroll icon on his unit card, no matter whether he´s in the province or is governing Egypt from Scotland.

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Originally Posted by Ciaran

He probably means you only get the governor boni if the fellow is actually inside the settlement, as opposed to MTW, where it´s enough the guy has that tiny scroll icon on his unit card, no matter whether he´s in the province or is governing Egypt from Scotland.

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Regarding this last comment, I have experienced more profit and development on provinces where the governor actually stays than those where the governor is out fighting.

This is why I am amaze of how high the acumen is in Peasant units and they are really cheap. My actual question is, If I increase the number of Peasants in the province, Would it increase income or it doesn't matter as long as the first Peasant Unit has a good acumen?

Leave that to the experts

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Originally Posted by Legorreto

Regarding this last comment, I have experienced more profit and development on provinces where the governor actually stays than those where the governor is out fighting.

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That shouldn't happen, unles of course it is caused by the fact the governor's builder and farmer virtues go the general of the stack he is in.

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Originally Posted by Legorreto

My actual question is, If I increase the number of Peasants in the province, Would it increase income or it doesn't matter as long as the first Peasant Unit has a good acumen?

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I am not sure whether I understand your question correctly. A province can have only one governor, and only his acumen (and that of the King) matter. Even if you have a high-acumen leader in said province, if he isn't the governor it won't help you one bit. Building more peasants will only increase loyalty, and the amount of florins you have to spend on army upkeep.

The only way adding more garrison peasants will increase revenue is if the added loyalty allows you to raise taxes. Otherwise the only economic effect will be increasing upkeep costs, as Ludens said.

Ajax

Occasionally I find myself birthing a five Accumen Peasant. Usually, if not always, because of virtues they are born with.

I believe one reason for their high accumen would be because of their basic cunning. Many accounts have told of how the peasant, having had to work his whole life to even survive, out witted his "supperiors" with his wyles and fast talking. But then again, often in stories the peasant who strives to much to overcome his station is brought down by his ambition and vices. A prime example would be Stendal's Red and the Black (a croincle of 1830).

I think that's why I like V&Vs. If someone is staying home and politicing, social climbing, and chasing his friends' wives (or in some cases sons) they get more vices than someone who is out buisying his mind with war and survival.

Slav warriors are far better than peasants, they are a 100 man unit and cost the same to maintain. As soon as I am able to create these units I switch those provinces to spamming them out, allowing myself 2 units of them for each province I control. Have had quite reasonable success with them in fighting the Golden horde also.

I never make peasants as they just arent worth in, especially at the start of the game when you only have limited resources and may need every unit possible to fight. They flee far too quickly and die even quicker.

Dont even use peasants for suicide missions. A better unit for this is Highlander and/or Gallowglasses as they can usually inflict some damage, cheap to build and one of the cheapest to maintain. Great for castle sieges when you want someone expendable to assault a gatehouse.

The only situation in which I'd train a peasent unit would be when I have about 200 florins in my cash and immediately need to improve loyalty in one of my provinces.
I had very bad experiences with them on battlefield; once my peasent 2-star general started to flee although his unit didn't take any casaulties.
I'd not even use them for suicide missions as it would bring me more harm then good. There are much better units for this (still cheap) like Ghazis, Arab inf, H. clansmen, Gallowglasses or Fanatics.

now that i've got VI installed i will usually use the slightly improved stuff like Thralls, Slav Warriors or Fyrd to govern most provinces if they're available...they're still dirt cheap, and they can fight much better. still gotta be peasants for the Muslims though.

can be frustrating waiting for a decent governor to spawn...i had a Hungarian campaign recently where i gave out none of my titles for nearly ten years due to a lack of decent governors, finally got one, and the very next turn he gained the Lazy vice...gah. :wall:

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Originally Posted by Legorreto

I wonder ¿is there a way to get the most benefits of this virtues? Is it recommendable to have more than one Peasant unit (despites possible rebellions) to increase acumen or income in a Province?

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The number of peasant units doesn't influence income, only the number of feathers does.

Peasants also make good training fodder for your Grand Inquisitors and Spies!

Ajax

Personally I think peasants loose their use after a very short amount of time.

Eventually you'll probably end up with more high acumen generals than you know what to do with. And as far as garrisons, I prefer Celtic warriors. 125 to build, and only 25 to maintain. And unlike other cheep units like UM, Woodies, or HC Celts are 100 men. Not to mention I get tons of lieutenants (1 star generals) from their ranks when they're built.

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Originally Posted by Scurvy

im a fanatics person myself :)

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Ditto!!

I never used to use Fanatics, until a couple of months ago when I was desperate for front-line troops in an assault on Constantinople.

I deployed all my best troops, brought my speedy Fanatics around to the flanks of a Saracen spear wall, and charged...

BAMMO! Their incredible charge stats ensured the total disintegration of the spearwall, and they spent the rest of the battle running around and charging various engaged units until they hit breaking point. It was awesome to watch them run amok.

I then merged two valoured-up Fanatics units (for a total average valour of 3, plus bonus from General) to create a scary flanking force for future use.

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Originally Posted by Marquis de Said

I think peasants are pretty much useless.

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Well, they are not useless. They are not useless even in a battle.
Believe me or not but they helped me gain a victory against the Italians. Late period, Byzantines(attacker).
I wanted to be historically accurate in a Byzantine manner I attacked them from the right side - my general himself lead the attack. Then the battle became - my brave general was fighting as a lion while his 'colleague' was watching the battle. We all know that Byzantium was not a great military force at late and the situation became really difficult. Fortunately I have some 'reinforcements' on the map- one Proniai unit and Zero Valoured byzantine infantry. I took the risk and sent the ByzInf supported by the Proniais against a unit of Peasants ( Don't think that I take Peasants in my army - their work is to work for us, their masters :laugh4:) . The Peasants were fighting for their contry and they didn't run as I expected. Then the Enemy general with all his reserves (knights, elite infantry and not so elite infantry) attacked in the rear my Byzantine infantry and the Proniais. We know ByzInf are notorious with their poor morale but that time they were brave ( my general hadn't high command TILL that battle). Most of my Pronias were killed and only three of them managed to run away but the ByzInf continued to fight ( wonders,wonders). At that time the enemy fighting against the bigger part of my army started to route my general and the rest of my army helped to the ByzInf ... the battle was one. My people even managed to captured the enemy general. I am sure that three facts helped to me:
1.My byzInf were fighting against peasants
2. I promised to the bravest to spent some nights in the best brothels of the empire
3. One of the Orthodox Saints himself participated in the battle (I think between the heroic ByzInf).~;)

I hate the peasant unit not because I can't find uses for them myself but because of the AI's love for them. I hate seeing hordes of peasant armies and I love how the XL mod completely deleted the peasant unit from the game. This makes the AI significantly tougher as their armies' composition is much better so it makes for a more interesting campaign.:2thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Cowhead418

Actually, if you have VI installed (which is quite clear that you don't) then their upkeep has been lowered to 12, which is definately the cheapest around.

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Hmm..I'm playing VI and the peasants still cost 37 florins in upkeep. :dizzy2:

If you have a peasant general and a few minutes on the clock, you can just run them around until the AI times out and oyu win.

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Originally Posted by Powermonger

Hmm..I'm playing VI and the peasants still cost 37 florins in upkeep. :dizzy2:

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Exactly... the all-wise pros forgot to put a solid line between peasants in MTW and peasants in VI. Even with VI installed, the peasant unit in the medieval campaign costs 37 florins a year, where in the Viking campaign - 12.
I prefer to garrison my provinces with something that can actually hold a little longer - vanilla spearmen are better for this: they can hold up for a while and, being commoners just like peasantry, tend to attain quite a big Acumen values...

I would never take a peasant in battle, they run easy which sets off the rest of your troops. The only thing peasants are good for are for garrison castles to stop rebellions in that province. (But if there is a rebellion, then the province is lost in my eyes!)

In fact, I love peasants in battle. In the enemy ranks, that is.

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Originally Posted by Total War Merc

they run easy which sets off the rest of your troops

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For the very reason I tend to target them with a fast unit which will break them at an instant. The sight of commoners running for their lives can unsettle all but the bravest souls, and with enemy morale impacted by this flight, the whole army will break just that little bit earlier...

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Originally Posted by Total War Merc

The only thing peasants are good for are for garrison castles to stop rebellions in that province.

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I'd disagree, for the reason given in my previous post and also because...

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Originally Posted by Total War Merc

(But if there is a rebellion, then the province is lost in my eyes!)

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Not only rebellion. Sometimes your provinces guarded by a peasant mob get attacked by a single unit of spearmen, archers or what-have-you. When you try to defend with peasants, they get beaten by just any unit. When you defend with Spearmen... well, that's another story (Archers, Peasants and even Cavalry units would have a hard time wrestling the province from you). If you plan to garrison a province, make it something that actually counts!

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Not only rebellion. Sometimes your provinces guarded by a peasant mob get attacked by a single unit of spearmen, archers or what-have-you. When you try to defend with peasants, they get beaten by just any unit. When you defend with Spearmen... well, that's another story (Archers, Peasants and even Cavalry units would have a hard time wrestling the province from you). If you plan to garrison a province, make it something that actually counts!

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I agree. Although it does depend where the province is of course...I recently had Friesland swiped out from under me by the English using an under-strength fyrd unit and a dozen FMAA...if I'd had anything but peasants I would not have lost, however, they are so utterly monstrously bad at fighting that I failed to even kill a decent number of enemy...frontier provinces get UM or Spears, often units that have become obsolete as I tech up and need to be 'retired'. Capturing Scandinavia or Britain is good in VI cos you can spam Thralls and Fyrd to garrison places, although Fyrd are frankly a bit too good for that.

There's a great combat use for peasants, sort of, though it's a little cheesy. Say there's a stack of rebels you want to bribe, like the Vikings in Norway or something. If there's time, attack it with a good stack of peasants a few times (autocalc) and you'll be able to buy valored units with command stars.

Ah, yes... cannon fodder to sharpen the teeth on... :evilgrin:
I constantly use the other factions' (or rebel) peasants for just the same... a sight of a peasant rebellion is (almost) always something I welcome with joy :evilgrin:

The English are falling apart and there's 1100 rebel peasants in Wales. Who shall be granted this coveted gift?

Wow ~:eek: Gimme gimme gimme :croc: