The Factions

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IGNPC: What civilizations will be represented? What are some of the defining abilities and units of some of your favorite civilizations? Any cool historical battles to take advantage of these civilizations?

Bob Smith:There will be 21 playable factions for custom battle and multiplayer. England, France, Scotland, Holy Roman Empire, Denmark, Spain, Portugal, Milan, Venice, Papal States, Sicily, Poland, Russia, Hungary, Byzantium, The Turks, Egypt, The Moors, The Mongols, The Tumurids, The Aztecs.

We've included several factions that weren't included in the original Medieval; examples being Scotland, Venice and Portugal.

The final lineup of playable factions is still to be decided, however there will be a rich variety of factions to play, each with their own unique units and abilities that add a great deal of variation to the grand campaign experience.

As an example, Scotland start with the English breathing down their necks, so they will have to keep their heads down, bide their time, and seek allies. Scotland's army will be a mixed bag of solid lowland spearmen and fierce but unreliable highlanders. They'll have to work hard diplomatically at the start to avoid being overrun by the English, but if they can become the dominant power in Britain, they have a base to expand and seek wider domination.

We haven't finalized the lineup of historical battles at this point but rest assured they will be exceptionally cool.

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- From IGN article

CATHOLIC

England,
France,
Scotland,
Holy Roman Empire,
Denmark,
Spain,
Portugal,
Milan,
Venice,
Papal States,
Sicily
Poland
Hungary

MUSLIM

The Turks,
Egypt,
The Moors

ORTHADOX

Byzantium,
Russia,


OTHER

The Mongols,
The Tumurids,
The Aztecs

since when is Hungary orthodox?:dizzy2:

It isn't...

And what are the The Tumurids? They seem familiar, but I can't place them.

The Tumurids should be musilm.

They are musilm mongols. Tamealane's people.

I was guessing, Now ive updated it and placed them under Carholic

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Originally Posted by Steppe Merc

And what are the The Tumurids? They seem familiar, but I can't place them.

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where they not the empire to the east of the holyland around Iran. A quick search has found this

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The Timurids were a Dynasty of Iran established by the Emir of Kesh (Shahrisabz), known to history as Timur (Tamerlane). Timur conquered large parts of Transoxiana from 1363 onwards with various alliances (Samarqand in 1366, Balkh in 1369), and was recognized as ruler over them in 1370. Acting officially in the name of the Mongolian Chagatai ulus, he subjugated Mongolistan and Khwarazmia in the years that followed and began a campaign westwards in 1380. By 1389 he had removed the Kartids from Afghanistan (Herat) and advanced into Iran and Iraq from 1382 (capture of Isfahan in 1387, removal of the Muzaffarids from Shiraz in 1393, and expulsion of the Jalayirids from Baghdad). In 1394/95 he triumphed over the Golden Horde and enforced his sovereignty in the Caucasus, in 1398 subjugated northern India and occupied Delhi, in 1400/01 conquered Aleppo, Damascus and eastern Anatolia, in 1401 destroyed Baghdad and in 1402 triumphed over the Ottomans at Ankara. In addition, he transformed Samarqand into the 'Center of the World.

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Link http://timurid-dynasty.brainsip.com/

Maybe the map extend further east to include Iran.

I'm really worried how they are going to work the aztecs in there. I smell possible ~massive~ historical inaccuracy coming. Anyone here read Guns, Germs and Steal?

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Originally Posted by NodachiSam

I'm really worried how they are going to work the aztecs in there. I smell possible ~massive~ historical inaccuracy coming. Anyone here read Guns, Germs and Steal?

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My guess is an era on its own with its own map. Only including a few factions. Other than that it could be a timed event, ie not possible until after 1492 and only if you have achieved certain developments.

Oh. Well since Timur's faction was only around for as long as he was, and they formed after the Mongol Horde, the Qipchaqs would be a far better choice, or the Fatmids or Abbassids.

Maybe but Timur is renouned in history. Plus his faction lasts from 1370 to 1507. The Fatimids are Egypt (at least by 1080 they were) and the Abbasids were gone a century before. But you never know CA might have upped the factions to 25 or 30. I mean that total has to be 22 as the rebels are always a faction.

Also the Timurids were Moslem.

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Tamerlane was only partly Mongol and never claimed to be one. But he tended to use Mongol puppet figureheads and did create the last serious nomadic empire. A devoted Moslem, his conquests and massacres were nevertheless almost entirely directed against fellow Moslems. Poor little Georgia had to bear most of his wrath against Christians.

Despite what must seem the superfluous slaughter and pointless terror of Tamerlane's campaigns, his was the only historic empire actually founded on the region of Transoxania and cities like Samarkand and Bukhara. This brought a period of higher culture and architecture to the area. The style of architecture, indeed, passed to the Moghuls. The splendor of the Taj Mahâl thus owes more than a little to the ferocious Tamerlane.

The region of Farghâna included a small Timurid principality. The Özbeg conquest of the region (1501) sent the heir, Bâbur, heading for Kabul (1514) and India (1526), where he founded the Moghul Empire.

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MTW allows 32 factions. We can only hope they can again reach at least that.

I think that at the end there won`t be the Aztecs. beause how should they intigrate into the game?

Oh, they'll find a way..

Hopefully CA will get make the Almohads a little more historically accurate, since the Almohads didn't actually emerge as a faction until the 12th century and overran the existing Islamic Kingdoms in the Iberian Peninsula. Ideally therefore we should be starting a campaign in MTW2 with the Spanish occupying one or two provinces in the north, with the rest being controlled by various Islamic rebel/minor factions. The Almohads would then start out in North Africa and have to conquer Spain first. That might even slow them down and stop them overrunning Western Europe as so often happened in MTW.

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Originally Posted by Hambut_bulge

Hopefully CA will get make the Almohads a little more historically accurate, since the Almohads didn't actually emerge as a faction until the 12th century and overran the existing Islamic Kingdoms in the Iberian Peninsula. Ideally therefore we should be starting a campaign in MTW2 with the Spanish occupying one or two provinces in the north, with the rest being controlled by various Islamic rebel/minor factions. The Almohads would then start out in North Africa and have to conquer Spain first. That might even slow them down and stop them overrunning Western Europe as so often happened in MTW.

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If you call them the Moors, you get over the problem.

It would be droolable if the map were some colossal thing with a faction for every area owing loyalty to a number of greater factions.. then battles would be less predictable; you'd only be able to control the soldiers owned by your faction.. your allies (subordinates/superiors) could turn on you or bugger off in the middle of it all.

I'm pretty certain that the Mongols, Timurids and Aztecs are all tied to specific campaign options (remember Early, High and Late?), and the former two should of course also enter the game at some point even if you play from an earlier period. The Aztecs could also enter the game through player actions, such as finding the way to the New World (which can't possibly be tied with a timed event), but in that case the Aztecs wuld be your enemy.

The only way I can see the Aztecs being integrated (however badly) into the main campaign is if the Atlantic is opened up with the invention of deep-sea ships (caravels and etc., as in MTW) so European factions can go over to Mexico later in the game and not before.

I hope they made it a seperate campaign for the aztecs. If not I wonder if it would be possible to go to NA earlier than normal. That would feel odd but be kind of cool. I probably wouldn't work though. The Americas would be filled with rebels if the aztecs are the only society. I really want to see a campaign map shot!!

I dislike the idea of playing the Atzects. This be good. Hopefully is ist only a campaign aim. If not, the modders will probalby chang this-i guess

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Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler

since when is Hungary orthodox?:dizzy2:

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A Valid & Good Question, Vlad; concidering both sides of my wife's family are from Budapest and neither are Orthodox and as far as I know and think I knew, Hungary was first pagan and then Catholic.:dizzy2: :oops:

Well, I still can't figure why they stick with such a low number of faction. I'd so enjoy playing with all the EUII-like crappy one province faction. I do not mean making 500 factions with each their own units, but hell, they could put 4 irish factions, about a dozen muslim ones, 6 major french houses, and so on.
Plus, representing the HYW with 'France' and 'England' is actually quite crappy.

Update:

They are lookig to knock the faction number up to 30 if possible. So even more choice for us!

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Originally Posted by Meneldil

Plus, representing the HYW with 'France' and 'England' is actually quite crappy.

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totally agreed...

A large amount of factions would be required to make it work historically.

I hope that the Eastern European factions get some decent, realistic units. The most embarrasing unit, in my mind, was the Hungarian Szekely. They're an ethnic group! Not a 'unit'.

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Originally Posted by RedCoat

I hope that the Eastern European factions get some decent, realistic units. The most embarrasing unit, in my mind, was the Hungarian Szekely. They're an ethnic group! Not a 'unit'.

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Agree, but Székelys used really this "light cavalry fighting-style" like all the ancient Magyar tribes and eastern nomadic people. After the settling emerged some new unit because the western effect (eg. royal heavy cavalry), but these tribes conserved their original style and always fought in the first line of the Hungarian army with the Cumans, Yazigs and Pechenegs. So imho Székelys are ok maybe under the name Székely Horse Archers. ~;)

cumans absolutely...

east europe balance component.

russia-bizantyum-volga bulgaria-georgia-hungary-mongols...

balance component

Playing the scots will be really hard I mean they only get like 1 province. Maybe they carved the map up more so scotland it like 2 provinces...
I cant wait to play as the aztecs!

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Originally Posted by Hambut_bulge

Hopefully CA will get make the Almohads a little more historically accurate, since the Almohads didn't actually emerge as a faction until the 12th century and overran the existing Islamic Kingdoms in the Iberian Peninsula. Ideally therefore we should be starting a campaign in MTW2 with the Spanish occupying one or two provinces in the north, with the rest being controlled by various Islamic rebel/minor factions. The Almohads would then start out in North Africa and have to conquer Spain first. That might even slow them down and stop them overrunning Western Europe as so often happened in MTW.

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Perhaps they should be the Almoravids instead?

Isn't it a bit silly to use dynastic names to represent a region where the ruling dynasty tended to change almost every hundred years or thereabouts...? Why not just call them the Moors or something ? I mean, they're doing the same with the Turks and Egypt already...
...
...okay, make that most of the factions.

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Originally Posted by Ultras DVSC

Agree, but Székelys used really this "light cavalry fighting-style" like all the ancient Magyar tribes and eastern nomadic people. After the settling emerged some new unit because the western effect (eg. royal heavy cavalry), but these tribes conserved their original style and always fought in the first line of the Hungarian army with the Cumans, Yazigs and Pechenegs. So imho Székelys are ok maybe under the name Székely Horse Archers. ~;)

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Szép, I suppose this is an accurate interpretation. The name should definitely be changed, and I think the faction as a whole should have been stronger. Hungary was the most powerful Eastern European Kingdom throughout much of the middle ages. We need more unique units for Poland and Hungary at the end of the day.

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Originally Posted by Watchman

Isn't it a bit silly to use dynastic names to represent a region where the ruling dynasty tended to change almost every hundred years or thereabouts...? Why not just call them the Moors or something ? I mean, they're doing the same with the Turks and Egypt already...
...
...okay, make that most of the factions.

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Indeed! If we are to deal with a limited number of generic "factions", then we should give them generic names.

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Originally Posted by RedCoat

Szép, I suppose this is an accurate interpretation. The name should definitely be changed, and I think the faction as a whole should have been stronger. Hungary was the most powerful Eastern European Kingdom throughout much of the middle ages. We need more unique units for Poland and Hungary at the end of the day.

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I second to that. Probably fast light cavalry and medium cavalry needed and also some unique heavy foot troops. Maybe also a unit that would represent the heavy terrain of Hungary where rivers, swamps and bridges always played big role.

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Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler

since when is Hungary orthodox?:dizzy2:

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hey hey hey

Hungary aint orthodox.. i just know it casue i live there:furious3:


:laugh4: :laugh4:

will it be a playable faction?

Gee, I've got a feeling that MTW2 won't be as historically accurate as it should be.

yeah but i whant hungary as a playable faction

i wanna i wanna i wanna

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Originally Posted by Darren_Shan

yeah but i whant hungary as a playable faction

i wanna i wanna i wanna

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Here you are sir:

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Bob Smith:There will be 21 playable factions for custom battle and multiplayer. England, France, Scotland, Holy Roman Empire, Denmark, Spain, Portugal, Milan, Venice, Papal States, Sicily, Poland, Russia, HUNGARY, Byzantium, The Turks, Egypt, The Moors, The Mongols, The Tumurids, The Aztecs.

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yay

thx VERY much m8

it said multiplayer and custom playable only, not single player campaign

England,
France,
Scotland,
Holy Roman Empire, ....... germany
Denmark,
Spain,
Portugal, ......................................in europe history unimportant role
Milan, .............. italian
Venice, ............. italian
Papal States, ........ italian
Sicily, ................italian
Poland,
Russia, ............ who.? 10-12 russian knezs.
Hungary,
Byzantium,
The Turks, ........ who.? great selchuks, anatolia selchuks, ottomans, and other turks.
Egypt, .............who.? 1250-1517 memluks to be kıpchak turks.
The Moors,
The Mongols, .......... who.? great mongols empire - ilkhanlis - golden horde.?
The Tumurids, .................................... 1370-1447-- late periot & short life
The Aztecs. ................................... certain nonsense

21 faction.
but 4 italian factions, (including 2 little factions)
and 5 error factions (turks,portugal,russians,timurids,aztecs)

where..?
great or important factions:
cumans, swiss, litvania, bulgaria, burgonia, volga bulgaria, khawarizmshashs, abbasi khaliphes, zengis.

little factions:
norway, sweden, wales, irelans, normans, navarrs, catalans, genova, bohemia, austria, kroatia, serbia, epyr, crusader states (edessa-tripoli-jerussalem-antioccu-constantinopols), vlahs (romans), patzinaks, oghuzs, georgians, abhaz-chirkess (caucasia and egypt) alans, armenians, persians, arab states, habeshs(ethiopia) and minor turk states )

lol whats the prob with the aztecs? u might have chance to travel to the NEW World and clononize.. or summin like that

AND YAY! HUNGARY WILL OWN ALLl!!!!!

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Originally Posted by lar

it said multiplayer and custom playable only, not single player campaign

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True but like in RTW, a simple little mod and you can have all factions playable I'm sure. :)

So hungry won't be available at the start but should be eventually.

yay

i herd from some soarces that u choose 1 of the hungrain tribes.. and ur forst goal is to take control over the other tibes >_>

Pity, no Bulgaria~:confused: Ok,that's one of the unpleasant moments of my life ( Btw is there any hope that the number of factions will be changed (increased of course)????). But let's be more optimistic- the release date is coming!!!

sure there is!

CS is very mestarious sometimes XD

I want Luxemburg as a playable faction too!

If they do expand the map to go as far east as Iran(so they can include the Timurids's capital Samarkand which I believe is not in Iran but north of it) then they could just call the Timurid faction Iran and could then represent all the dynasties(Seljuks, Kwarazmians, Ilkhanate), though it would be kind of cheesy.

I agree with bozkirsovalyesi that historical accuracy is questionable. I am subjective, but where is Croatia? I do not know which year mtw2 starts, but in mtw Croatia is under Hungary and that was pretty much correct, but now I see that Croatia is a rebel province and that is crappy.:help:

I just hope that CA will make something like total political decentralization of European and some Asian states and factions, because if you wanted to be strong kind, empreror or whatever, you had to deal at first with various dukes, counts, princes, vassals, bishops, free cities etc in your own state.

For gameplay, they sometimes need to have "rebel" provinces. They are no rebels, just independent.

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Originally Posted by bozkirsovalyesi

England,
France,
Scotland,
Holy Roman Empire, ....... germany
Denmark,
Spain,
Portugal, ......................................in europe history unimportant role
Milan, .............. italian
Venice, ............. italian
Papal States, ........ italian
Sicily, ................italian
Poland,
Russia, ............ who.? 10-12 russian knezs.
Hungary,
Byzantium,
The Turks, ........ who.? great selchuks, anatolia selchuks, ottomans, and other turks.
Egypt, .............who.? 1250-1517 memluks to be kıpchak turks.
The Moors,
The Mongols, .......... who.? great mongols empire - ilkhanlis - golden horde.?
The Tumurids, .................................... 1370-1447-- late periot & short life
The Aztecs. ................................... certain nonsense

21 faction.
but 4 italian factions, (including 2 little factions)
and 5 error factions (turks,portugal,russians,timurids,aztecs)

where..?
great or important factions:
cumans, swiss, litvania, bulgaria, burgonia, volga bulgaria, khawarizmshashs, abbasi khaliphes, zengis.

little factions:
norway, sweden, wales, irelans, normans, navarrs, catalans, genova, bohemia, austria, kroatia, serbia, epyr, crusader states (edessa-tripoli-jerussalem-antioccu-constantinopols), vlahs (romans), patzinaks, oghuzs, georgians, abhaz-chirkess (caucasia and egypt) alans, armenians, persians, arab states, habeshs(ethiopia) and minor turk states )

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I completly agree with this post and specially with adding these other important factions including these "little factions"...or it will historical background be faked again

The only little faction I do not agree with is Sweeden. How are they a little faction? they controlled more territory than England or Portugal! Hopefull Sweeden as well as Switzerland will be involved in a Mod.

Although Sweden had much territory, it wasn't that populated so the only regions that could compare with the rest of the world was Östergötland and Västergötland. The rest was most just woods with some villages scattered across it.

I would love to see Sweden and conquer the world for us, but we didn't make a great impact untill around the 16th centuary. Denmark called the shoots in the Baltic during the Middle Ages.

Well, that is true, but I love the Swedes, such nice people. I can only hope a viking faction is playable if CA redo the viking invasion expansion.

Ok to say the Russians wernt important is to say the english wernt important The Kievens are the ones who crushed the Cumans repeled the Mongol invasion and helped crush poland. And later they were renamed Russians from the upperclass of the Kieven nation the Rus. Russia to this day is a supper power and its empire has lasted over 1000 years so far. If the Rus arnt in the game who the hell is going to stop/slow the mongols before they reach poland and the Balkans? If you want it historicaly accurate the Russians cant be taken out.



P.S. by 1000 Keiv controled almost all the steppe until the Novogrods came to be who later merged with Kiev and then the new capitol Moscov was named which then moved to St. Petersberb (Leinengrad) then back to Moscov.

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Originally Posted by bozkirsovalyesi

England,
France,
Scotland,
Holy Roman Empire, ....... germany
Denmark,
Spain,
Portugal, ......................................in europe history unimportant role
Milan, .............. italian
Venice, ............. italian
Papal States, ........ italian
Sicily, ................italian
Poland,
Russia, ............ who.? 10-12 russian knezs.
Hungary,
Byzantium,
The Turks, ........ who.? great selchuks, anatolia selchuks, ottomans, and other turks.
Egypt, .............who.? 1250-1517 memluks to be kıpchak turks.
The Moors,
The Mongols, .......... who.? great mongols empire - ilkhanlis - golden horde.?
The Tumurids, .................................... 1370-1447-- late periot & short life
The Aztecs. ................................... certain nonsense

21 faction.
but 4 italian factions, (including 2 little factions)
and 5 error factions (turks,portugal,russians,timurids,aztecs)

where..?
great or important factions:
cumans, swiss, litvania, bulgaria, burgonia, volga bulgaria, khawarizmshashs, abbasi khaliphes, zengis.

little factions:
norway, sweden, wales, irelans, normans, navarrs, catalans, genova, bohemia, austria, kroatia, serbia, epyr, crusader states (edessa-tripoli-jerussalem-antioccu-constantinopols), vlahs (romans), patzinaks, oghuzs, georgians, abhaz-chirkess (caucasia and egypt) alans, armenians, persians, arab states, habeshs(ethiopia) and minor turk states )

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I mostly agree with this post except: 1.The Abassid Caliphs had no power in this period and were pretty much puppet rulers to the Seljuk Sultans. They wouldint make a very great faction at all unless you like sitting around in your heram eating dates.:laugh4:
2.You put Persians in when Iran was ruled by many different dyanstys in this period.
3.the Normans are in the game...well, sortof. You see by the start date.(1080AD)William of Normandy had been delcared King of England by the Pope of Rome and thus Normandy and England were ruled by one man.:2thumbsup:
As for all those other suggestions I really dont know that much about them to tell you the truth.:sweatdrop:

So that means England can start with a province in Northern France.

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Originally Posted by ride the lightning

Well, that is true, but I love the Swedes, such nice people. I can only hope a viking faction is playable if CA redo the viking invasion expansion.

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You are aware of the irony of this statement, correct?

The irony that vikings arn't nice people? Yes I was aware, was just a little humerous statment to me.

Vikings were very nice people.....to their own kind and others they respected.

Vikings didn't care about their own kind. They were more than willing to attack other Scandinavians either as pirates or as the hired help of Franks, English, etcetera.

Trajen the 1st:

1- Abassid Caliphs... 1050s - 1150s selcuklu dependent. after 1150s copmlete independent. 1258... until.

2- medieval persian factions:
....... 11.cntry: taberistan - shirvan - buveyhi emirates /
....... 12.cntry: shirvan - mazenderan emirates /
....... 12. and 13.cntrys: gurs /
....... 14.cntry: serbedars - kart - mezafferi emirates /

3- siciliy and south italy normans...

Yes but you see those were other clans. so other factions histroy just sums them all together as vikings when really there were tons of diffrent factions. Just like the world German covers all the tribes.

SPAIN FACTION

SPAIN IN 1030

http://www.iturnet.es/navarra/spanish_kingdoms_1030.jpg

In the year 1030 there were 2 Christian kingdoms in Spain:
León and Navarre.


SPAIN IN 1200

http://www.euratlas.net/AHP/temps/so1200.jpg

In the year 1200 there were 4 Christian kingdoms in Spain:
Portugal, León, Castile, Navarre, Aragon



Then, why in the game Spain is the only faction?:embarassed:

I hope that there will be much more factions especilly in Balkans.I hope that I'm going to see Serbia and Bulgaria.I want to see Bulgaria becouse they were greatest power in Balkans for almost 50-60 years,especialy under Simeon who proclamaed himself emperor after taking almost Byzantine lands in Europe,he was stoped at Corinth and under city walls of Constntinopole.I want to see Serbia becouse they also have self proclaimed Emperor.King Dusan(later emperor)was greatest ruler in the eastern europe in period(1331-1355)he conquered almost all Byzantine land in Europe he sucessfuly defat king Ludovic of Hungary,he have only one defat.Turks defat him at Didimotike in 1354,after that Dusan have asked and he was granted a promision to start a crusade against Turks.He was anaunced to be a leader in that crusade,but he die in 1355 and crusade never came to life.After his death Turks were take almost the hole balcans in about 30 years.I think that Serbia need to be in this Total war becouse Emperor of the Serbs was the only Eastern europe ruler who was singed to be a leader in the crusade,unfortunaly his death stop him to that.

I apologized to everyone if I have some writhing erors I still go in Highschool in Serbia I hope that everyone could understand what I am try to say.

Please tell me what you think of this what I said.Thanks...

all you are saying is great but imagine if they had to make every upstart and self proclaimed empire that existed for less than 50 years there would be 100 factions...it would be impassible....but they can take these characters and make them into a rebel factions and let them pop out every so often, that would enchance the game and you would see them in the game.

I don't want them to over script the game by having this faction or that faction become suddenly become powerful at a predetermined time. Each campaign should play out differently. If you want to simulate the fact that factions waxed and waned in prominence the best way of simulating that is with different starting times.

Sicily isn't Italian. It was a mix of Italians, native Sicilians, Carthaginians, Greeks and Romans. They are Sicilian.

Anyway, how are the Timurids there? Didn't Tamerlane claim to be descended from Genghis? My Medieval history is close to nil, so excuse me if I'm wrong.

i must reply on what you told becouse Serbs were independent from 9.century until arival of the Turks in Europe.Then Serbs hold of Turk invasion of the Europe for 70years in great battle on Kosovo where first Turkish Sultan was murderd.Battle was a draw but Serbia has never recovered after that battle.So Serbia finaly lose indendence in 1459,six years after fall of Constantinopole.So Serbia was independent for almost entire midle age.I think that this new game need to have some minor factions to make a game more interesting and more chalenging,and I think that Serbia and Bulgaria need to be in the game as minor factions.Also one more thing Simeon of Bulgaria wasn't self proclaimed emperor,byzantine emperor gave him this title as it was most important thing he asked in a peace treaty.

I would just like to add some maps that can back up previous post..
It would really be great if M2TW could be as historicly accurate as possible.
Dusan Silni (Dushan the Mighty) had controled most of the Balkans in medieval period, with its peak in mid 14cntry. Serbian faction was signifcant power in south-eastern Europe at that time. And it didn't last for a short period of time, but for about 5 centuries they kept their independance.
I think that the realism of the game will suffer if factions like this are left out.

http://www.zum.de/whkmla/histatlas/balkans/sb1196.gif
http://www.zum.de/whkmla/histatlas/balkans/sb1355.gif
http://www.zum.de/whkmla/histatlas/balkans/sb1389.gif

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Originally Posted by ride the lightning

So that means England can start with a province in Northern France.

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I always find this an interesting point.

If they renamed the early English faction, the Normans, they could also give them Sicily.

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Bob Smith:There will be 21 playable factions for custom battle and multiplayer. England, France, Scotland, Holy Roman Empire, Denmark, Spain, Portugal, Milan, Venice, Papal States, Sicily, Poland, Russia, Hungary, Byzantium, The Turks, Egypt, The Moors, The Mongols, The Tumurids, The Aztecs.

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The east will make an interesting battle ground with Poland, Russia, Hungary, The Turks, Egyptians and Tumurids also fighting against The Mongol onslaught.

Central Europe does worry me a little. I would be far more happier if it also included Burgundy and the Swiss cantons. The game is going upto 1530 so you would expect to have the conflicts of Burgundy and the Cantons. The Burgundian empire was large and included large parts of Flanders and Artois. MTW finished in 1453 with the end of the hundred years war, but this new game will go past the War of the Roses leaving europe looking a very different continent.

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Originally Posted by ShadesWolf

I always find this an interesting point.

If they renamed the early English faction, the Normans, they could also give them Sicily

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Yeah but the normans in sicily never held their lands of the english kings but of the pope. Any king of england would never had any say in sicily and naples.

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Originally Posted by Riadach

Yeah but the normans in sicily never held their lands of the english kings but of the pope. Any king of england would never had any say in sicily and naples.

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Yes but William the conqueror was also Duke of Normandy (part of the French Crown)

It would be far better to make England part of the Norman empire. And then in 1154 have a civil war that split England into a seperate nation.

Or not have Normandy as part of England, but leave it as part of France and have the Duke being a blood relation to the King of England at the start of the game.

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Originally Posted by ShadesWolf

Yes but William the conqueror was also Duke of Normandy (part of the French Crown)

It would be far better to make England part of the Norman empire. And then in 1154 have a civil war that split England into a seperate nation.

Or not have Normandy as part of England, but leave it as part of France and have the Duke being a blood relation to the King of England at the start of the game.

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I can understand your point shades but instead of the Normans i would add a european faction in the central or east area either Bohemia or Lithuania, just to balance things up a bit

EUROPE IN 1075

http://www.uam.es/departamentos/filo...mapas/1075.gif

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Originally Posted by Tiberius

Sicily isn't Italian. It was a mix of Italians, native Sicilians, Carthaginians, Greeks and Romans. They are Sicilian.

Anyway, how are the Timurids there? Didn't Tamerlane claim to be descended from Genghis? My Medieval history is close to nil, so excuse me if I'm wrong.

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And I would add: Normans, too. As far as Timur ( or Tamerlane is concerned) is concerned he did claim to be a descendant of Genghis khan although he was not. Anyway he was a mongol leader but a muslim mongol leader ( not pagan like Genghis khan) and with a different tactic ( he used to gather all his army and hit unlike Genghis khan who preferred to use several smaller but fast armies on a giant front).

Bulgaria was not a main Balkan power only in Xth century ( when Simeon ruled) but was a powerful rival of Byzantium in VIIth (from 680-681) , VIIIth, esp in IXth and Xth and even in XI (before 1018 ). From 1018- 1185 Bulgaria was under Byzantine power but there was nine rebellions in XIth (two of them of Petar Delian and of Constantine Bodin and Georgi (George) Boyteh almost succeeded). And XIIth century there was only one but in the best moment in 1185 Petar and Asen succeded in restoring Bulgaria. So between 1185 and 1396 Bulgarian tzardom existed and was one of the Balkan powers. It was definately the most powerful Balkan country from 1185 to 1241 ( some glorious events the disastrous ( for the Crusaders) defeat of Adrianople in 1205, between 1230 and 1246 the territory of Bulgaria covered almost the whole Balkan peninsula ( although a bit smaller(!) than Simon's Bulgaria and near to the size of Bulgaria in IXth and Xth so that's not just a temporary event). The destruction of Bulgarian tzardom came with the Mongol hordes who went through the Bulgarian lands in 1242-1243. :skull: Bulgaria regain some of its power in the beginning of XIVth century but at that time Serbian power had risen. After Serbian victory in 1330 Serbia for a while became the most powerful country in the Balkan peninsula but Bulgaria was still an important country. Bulgaria was the first Balkan couhtry to fall victim of the Ottomans but not because it was the weakest ( as weak as other Christian countries ( Serbia, Byzantium) ) but because it was situated in the centre of the Balkan peninsula and its capital was not Constantinople.
So this is the Bulgarian history in brief. For more info I'm ready to give if asked~;) . I've mentioned it in other posts but I decided to put it here so more people can read it. Other my posts on this topic can be found in in
' Over 30 factions ' thread. So I think Bulgaria should be at least minor (but not rebel) faction.
Here is my favourite ( or at least most used) map of Bulgaria. I'll put it here again to make my point more clear
http://debian.fmi.uni-sofia.bg/~niko...VAN-ASEN-2.jpg
And once again thanks to http://debian.fmi.uni-sofia.bg/~niko...VAN-ASEN-2.jpg.
P.S. :oops: as always my explanations are far more than needed.

spain_medieval , as far as I know the byz empire lost its all lands in Italy in 1071 (Bari). And I think it had little in the northwestern Minor Asia. And Antioch and Edesa was ruled until 1085 by a byzantine not by an Armenian tycoon. But the map is good- it's interesting to me to learn how many muslim countries there was in Spain.
Edit:Disregard my note for the not-armenian tycoon. I checked his name Filaret Bachram. Maybe he's armenian,I am not sure. I am not sure he was loyal to byz then...

In single 1080 there were 2 Christian kingdoms in Spain:

1- The kingdom of LEON
2- The kingdom of NAVARRE

(Aragon was Muslim and Castile did not even exist)

The kingdom of LEON

http://members.fortunecity.es/edepaz...eon-escudo.gif

The kingdom of NAVARRE

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...Beltza.svg.png

http://www.iturnet.es/navarra/spanish_kingdoms_1030.jpg

Stephen Asen,I think you weren't fer when you spoke about Bulgaria.I also said that Bulgaria need to be in the MTW2 but I must say some facts.First Second Bulgarian Tzardom was established when crusaders conquer constantinopole.Brothers Asen rebelion in the late 12century was not a suces.Also Serbia was bigest power in the balkans in the whole 14century until the Kosovo Battle.Mongol invasion had weaken the Bulgarian Empire,but Bulgaria after invasion had recovered and with Mihailo Shisman they in the aliance with Byzantine Emperor Andronic the third declared war to Serbia.Bulgaria was defeted by Stefan Decanski in the batle at Velbuzd,in that battle young Dusan(later emperor called the Mighty)show the world his military skils.After that battle Bulgaria had been friendly with Serbia and they were in the aliance until Dusan sudden death in 1355.After his death Serbia was the devited to the Serbian Feudal lords but they were stronger then Bulgaria in that period of time.I yhink that Serbia and Bulgaria need to be in MTW2 and I think that Kosovo battle should be historical battle,and also it could be historical battle at Klokotnica in 1230 when Ivan2.Asen won a battle against Epir Despot Teodor 1. Angelo.