Gah! Canada goes conservative!

... but barely.

http://www.cbc.ca/

The Conservatives are running the show with a minority government. But since the other three parties, all to the left of the Conservatives, can vote together and crush any Conservative vote in the House of Commons, the changes in Canada should be mild ones. I hope.

One thing for sure, private for-profit medicine, and the state's supremacy over a woman's right to chose are non-starters. The three opposing parties will join together in a second and squash any Conservative attempts to get too funky with the Canada Health Act and woman's rights.

My guess: another federal election by July.

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...My guess: another federal election by July

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With this many elections, so often...are you guys using mail-in or electronic ballots yet - or everyone trudges to the polls still?

First, lets give credit where credit is due: Stephen Harper and the Conservatives ran a good campaign. They didn't allow the radical right members of their party to make racist/sexist/homophobic gaffes to sink their chances, as they did in the last few elections. Harper ran a policy-heavy and error-free campaign. This time, it was the liberals who made some real mistakes. So hats off to Harper.

On the other hand, one thing no one seems to be talking about (except smart guys like you, Beirut :smile: ) is how the Conservatives can govern with only a minority and no natural coalition partners. The Liberals will never ally with them, so that leaves the NDP, which is even futher left than the liberals, and the Bloc Quebecois, a separatist party. How is that going to work? I'm with you Beirut, I think we'll have another election within a year, possibly within six months. I think the liberals will win a minority in that future vote and form a coalition with the NDP.

The present election has actually restored my faith in the liberalism of Canada. Many voters were turned off by the liberals due to corruption rather than to liberal policies. Moreover, many former liberal voters seem to have gone over to the NDP (even more left wing) rather than going Conservative. It doesn't bode well for conservatism that the most the conservatives can win after 13 years of rampant corruption and liberal rule is a weak minority that has little chance of forming a coalition with any of the remaining parties.

They trudge to the polls... this way they vote and clear the snow in a 2 for 1 offer. Very efficient. :balloon2:

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Originally Posted by Papewaio

They trudge to the polls... this way they vote and clear the snow in a 2 for 1 offer. Very efficient. :balloon2:

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We don't trudge, we glide-- just hop out of the igloo, set the dogs a-runnin', and off ya go, eh?

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Originally Posted by Hurin_Rules

On the other hand, one thing no one seems to be talking about (except smart guys like you, Beirut :smile: ) is how the Conservatives can govern with only a minority and no natural coalition partners. The Liberals will never ally with them, so that leaves the NDP, which is even futher left than the liberals, and the Bloc Quebecois, a separatist party. How is that going to work?

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Listening to the BBC tonight, this is the only viewpoint I've heard expressed so far. If I was Beirut, I wouldn't be too worried. It was the liberals election to lose, the conservatives won by default (from the outside peering in, anyway).

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Originally Posted by Hurin_Rules

We don't trudge, we glide-- just hop out of the igloo, set the dogs a-runnin', and off ya go, eh?

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HeeHee. Always enjoyed sitting/drinkin' some Molson with my Canuckians buds watching cars pass by with New York license plates and skis on a rack, heading north IN JULY. In their defense, maybe they were headed wa-a-a-ay north, eh.

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Originally Posted by Proletariat

Listening to the BBC tonight, this is the only viewpoint I've heard expressed so far.

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Interesting. I've been watching mostly Canadian and American news. Not sure why they haven't really been talking about it.

Interesting. Possibly a government that is actually friendly to their southern neighbor and not exploiting and creating differences just so they can feel like they have a national identity. The trend should be on tearing down boundaries and not, like the liberals, creating animosity. I haven't seen all the political commercials but a lot of the anti-US ones made the headlines down here. I poke fun of Canada because they’re our cold weather friends (been there twice, GREAT fishing!), not like so many northern politicians who do it to feel important.

So the swinger (sp?) houses will get closed ? Bwahahahaha ! :smoking:

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Originally Posted by LeftEyeNine

So the swinger (sp?) houses will get closed ? Bwahahahaha ! :smoking:

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You go too far my friend. :laugh4:

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Originally Posted by LeftEyeNine

So the swinger (sp?) houses will get closed ? Bwahahahaha ! :smoking:

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No that was the Supreme Court's decision and it isn't going to be reversed by some pathetic minority government. The swinger clubs stay. :2thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Hurin_Rules

Interesting. I've been watching mostly Canadian and American news. Not sure why they haven't really been talking about it.

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Reading the headlines this morning I can see what you're talking about.

"OMG librulzz are teh gone!11!'

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Originally Posted by Byzantine Prince

No that was the Supreme Court's decision and it isn't going to be reversed by some pathetic minority government. The swinger clubs stay. :2thumbsup:

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An example of Nietzchean philosophies in practice.....

No doubt I've mis-construed something.

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Originally Posted by Vladimir

Interesting. Possibly a government that is actually friendly to their southern neighbor and not exploiting and creating differences just so they can feel like they have a national identity. The trend should be on tearing down boundaries and not, like the liberals, creating animosity.

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We are friendly to our southern neighbours. Canadians, by and large, are great fans of the US, as am I. But very few of us want to be Americans. Those are two different things. We have very different values regarding very fundamental issues.

Also, don't mistake Canada's dislike of your current president as dislike for your country. We have far too great a passion for democracy and the rights of the dissenting opinion to associate an entire country with one man's temporary posting to a position of authority over that country.

Granted, the Liberals have highlighted the differences between the US and Canada out of political expediency, but that does not mean the differences are not real. The softwood lumber issue is a good example. At least five times the NAFTA courts have ruled the US in violation of treaty. The President's response: "Too bad. We'll do what we want." When you speak of tearing down boundaries, both sides have work to do.

I was pissed that Harper won. He and his ilk rub me the wrong way. But better news is that we (that is my parents and I) convinced my brother and sister to vote this election. They are 22 and 20 repectively and have never voted before yesterday. So it was good and bad. As my brother voted for the Greens (I did the proper thing and went NDP). The Tories only hope of riding out a full 4 years is the new national liberal leader. Martin has said he's going as leader. So unless they get a new leader in the next 6 months and he gets out there and known to the people, it may mean the Tories can last. With the NDP keeping the in line. (Go socialists :balloon2: )

And the path to world domination continues...Bwahaha!

On a slightly more serious note, I don't think it'd hurt you guys to allow private doctors. I think you're one of the few (along with N. Korea!) that prohibits private doctors.

Crazed Rabbit

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Originally Posted by Hurin_Rules

First, lets give credit where credit is due: Stephen Harper and the Conservatives ran a good campaign. They didn't allow the radical right members of their party to make racist/sexist/homophobic gaffes to sink their chances, as they did in the last few elections. Harper ran a policy-heavy and error-free campaign. This time, it was the liberals who made some real mistakes. So hats off to Harper.

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I agree completely. The Conservatives' campaign was dignified and honorable (at least, as far as those two words can ever be applied to any political campaign) and they consistently took the high road, even in the face of slanderous personal attack ads sponsored by the Liberals. Grudgingly, I would also say the same thing about the campaign run by Jack Layton and the NDP.

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Originally Posted by Hurin_Rules

On the other hand, one thing no one seems to be talking about (except smart guys like you, Beirut :smile: ) is how the Conservatives can govern with only a minority and no natural coalition partners. The Liberals will never ally with them, so that leaves the NDP, which is even futher left than the liberals, and the Bloc Quebecois, a separatist party. How is that going to work? I'm with you Beirut, I think we'll have another election within a year, possibly within six months. I think the liberals will win a minority in that future vote and form a coalition with the NDP.

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I'll take a piece of that action. How much $$ do you want to lose?

The Conservatives have any number of "natural" policy allies in Parliament, depending on what the issue happens to be at the time.

The military? The Conservatives and Liberals are not too far apart on this issue. They both acknowledge that more needs to be spent, and budget increases will pass without any problem. National sentiment towards our folks in uniform is high right now, and not even the NDP will raise a stink about supporting them.

Health care? The Conservatives really only want to modestly expand the status quo there. Face it folks: private health care already exists in Canada. The most drastic thing the Conservatives have proposed in their platform is the imposition of wait-time guarantees for medical service. What Canadian will disagree with that?

Taxes? The Conservatives will most likely try to lower income taxes, and given the strength of the economy and the surpluses we have been running, they should be able to do it without drastic social program cuts. Does anybody want to be the opposition member who stands up in parliament and votes not to cut taxes?

The GST? The Conservatives propose to gradually reduce the GST. Wasn't a promise by the Liberal Party to eliminate the GST one of the main reasons we elected them twelve years ago? Does anybody think the Liberals can maintain what little credibility they have left in Canada if they, after breaking their own promise to do away with the GST, now block the Conservative Party's attempt to make good on that promise?

Decentralization/more power to the provinces? Seems to me that the Bloc would be natural supporters of any initiatives in this area.

Social issues (abortion, gay marriage, etc...)? Harper realizes that he does not have the mandate to try to impose his will in these areas. Throughout his campaign he said he would not try to impose any drastic social policy changes, and that if by chance any of these issues came to a head, he would allow a free vote in the House of Commons decide the issue. Who can argue with that?

The leaders of all the main parties realize that Canadians do not want another election anytime soon. If you listened to any of their speeches last night, they all made it clear that they would try to keep this parliament alive for at least a couple of years.

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Originally Posted by Hurin_Rules

The present election has actually restored my faith in the liberalism of Canada. Many voters were turned off by the liberals due to corruption rather than to liberal policies. Moreover, many former liberal voters seem to have gone over to the NDP (even more left wing) rather than going Conservative. It doesn't bode well for conservatism that the most the conservatives can win after 13 years of rampant corruption and liberal rule is a weak minority that has little chance of forming a coalition with any of the remaining parties.

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I'll reserve judgement on whether or not this election bodes well for the future of the Conservative Party. While I don't disagree with you entirely, I think you have overlooked a couple of reasons for the surprisingly strong Liberal showing:

1) The Conservatives are an unknown quantity to Canadians right now. I think if they govern effectively, and at least try to keep their promises and remain scandal-free, Canadians will have more confidence in them in the next election.

2) The Conservatives and their leader Mr. Harper are still considered to be a "western party" by many Canadians. The only reason the Liberals did so well in this election, was because Ontario supported them. Again, if Ontarians can get comfortable with the fact that the Conservatives are not just a western party, look out Liberals.

At any rate, one thing I think all Canadians can be happy about is the poor showing of the Bloc. A month ago, Duceppe was bragging about how he would increase the number of seats won by the Bloc to 60+, and how the Bloc would finally get over 50% of the popular vote in Quebec, setting the stage for another referendum. Instead, he lost seats and ended up with only 42% of the Quebec vote. Hit the bricks Gilles. Your days are numbered.

As for my own province, BC, I am disgusted. My vote once again didn't matter as the Liberal canditate in my riding, Keith Martin, was reelected. At least he is a very right-leaning Liberal. On a macro level, British Columbians are always whining about how we are disenfranchised from the rest of the country and have no say in federal politics. But what do we expect when we consistently send representatives to parliament who are members of the opposition rather than the government? Last election? "Hmm, it looks like the Liberals are going to win. Let's send a whole bunch of Conservatives to Ottawa." This election? "Jeez, those Conservatives look like they are going to form a government. I think we should get rid of the Conservatives we elected last time, and send more Liberals and NDP to parliament."

Idiots...

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Originally Posted by Goofball

On a macro level, British Columbians are always whining about how we are disenfranchised from the rest of the country and have no say in federal politics.

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I like British Columbia.

When California, Oregon, and Washington secede from the Union, B.C. can come too if you like. :)

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Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

On a slightly more serious note, I don't think it'd hurt you guys to allow private doctors.

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Yeah, and it wouldn't hurt to have dental surgery without anesthesia, either... ~:joker:

The Conservative must not screw up now. They must prepare for the election to come, within a year i think. They have all to gain by showing moderation. Do not scare the average Canadians, keep campaining in Ontario and Quebec. Aim for the majority in the next election. It will come soon enough....

Here in the regions around Quebec city we have elected a few Conservative(5 or 6 i think). The Bloc had a bad surprise. As i said above, if Harper dont screw up(i dont think he will) they have good chance for the next one. The Blocist are whinning that Harper received more coverage then Harper here. But Duceppe put his foot in his mouth last week on Radio-X. I think that have hurt him a lot, even if the "traditional" media didnt mention it at all. He was ask how he was to help us Quebecer, he couldnt answer anything but cheap shot on Harper. Louis StLaurent, Beauport, Charlesbourg, Levis, la Beauce, all voted conservative. If it wasnt of the Island of Montreal, the Liberals would have been wiped out of Quebec.

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Originally Posted by Goofball

2) The Conservatives and their leader Mr. Harper are still considered to be a "western party" by many Canadians. The only reason the Liberals did so well in this election, was because Ontario supported them. Again, if Ontarians can get comfortable with the fact that the Conservatives are not just a western party, look out Liberals.

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I don' t get this statement. Ontario, at least provincially, has been governed by the Conservatives 73 out of last 100 years and was actually governed from 1943-1985 by the Conservatives without pause. Currently this isn't the case, however, drawing from these numbers, I think we can safely say Ontario isn't under the impression nor views the Conservatives as a western party. I think a more appropriate statement would be, "...if Ontarians can get comfortable with the Reform/Alliance party look out Liberals and look out Canada...". That alone is the reason why Canadians(imo) are not comfortable with Steven Harper or the federal Conservative party. He's one of the founding members of the Alliance Party for fek sake.

As far as the election results, I would say I'm pretty happy. From alot of the advanced polling that preceded the election yesterday, you would of thought the Cons were going to win a majority, which I'm happy they didn't. It wasn't a strong mandate(and actually it was lesser a mandate then was given the Liberal minority government who was just thrown out) but enough to try them out for awhile.

Although, I don't think it will last. I'm with Beirut and Hurin, give it a year and we'll be going to the polls again.

I, for one, am to hear this news.

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Originally Posted by ghost908

I, for one, am to hear this news.

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Forget an adjective there? :)

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Originally Posted by Krypta

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Originally Posted by Goofball

2) The Conservatives and their leader Mr. Harper are still considered to be a "western party" by many Canadians. The only reason the Liberals did so well in this election, was because Ontario supported them. Again, if Ontarians can get comfortable with the fact that the Conservatives are not just a western party, look out Liberals.

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I don' t get this statement.

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That's because you apparently don't understand the difference between provincial and federal politics, and the difference between the Conservative Party of Canada and the Progressive Conservative Party.

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Originally Posted by Krypta

Ontario, at least provincially, has been governed by the Conservatives 73 out of last 100 years and was actually governed from 1943-1985 by the Conservatives without pause.

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As I said, you're talking about provincial politics, which very often do not translate at all into federal politics. Cripes, when BC was sending Alliance and Reform (for those of you who don't know, the Reform and Alliance parties were extremely socially right wing parties) MPs to Ottawa, we were electing NDP (again, for those of you who don't know, the NDP are about thirty or forty miles to the left of the Democrats in the U.S.) governments provincially.

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Originally Posted by Krypta

Currently this isn't the case, however, drawing from these numbers, I think we can safely say Ontario isn't under the impression nor views the Conservatives as a western party.

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You can say that, but you'd be wrong. And you contradict yourself in your next statement.

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Originally Posted by Krypta

I think a more appropriate statement would be, "...if Ontarians can get comfortable with the Reform/Alliance party look out Liberals and look out Canada...". That alone is the reason why Canadians(imo) are not comfortable with Steven Harper or the federal Conservative party. He's one of the founding members of the Alliance Party for fek sake.

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Exactly. The Reform and Alliance were western-based, right-wing parties. Ontarians still see the trappings of those two parties in the new Conservative Party, and for that reason they are uncomfortable with it and do not identify with it. And it doesn't help that Harper maintains the party HQ in Calgary.

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Originally Posted by Krypta

As far as the election results, I would say I'm pretty happy. From alot of the advanced polling that preceded the election yesterday, you would of thought the Cons were going to win a majority, which I'm happy they didn't. It wasn't a strong mandate(and actually it was lesser a mandate then was given the Liberal minority government who was just thrown out) but enough to try them out for awhile.

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I agree with that too. I'm giving the Conservatives and Harper the benefit of the doubt and I believe they will hold to their promises not to try to turn Canada into the Jesusland of the north, but it's nice to know they need the consent of all the social lefties in parliament to do anything if they prove themselves to be liars.

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Originally Posted by Krypta

Although, I don't think it will last. I'm with Beirut and Hurin, give it a year and we'll be going to the polls again.

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I hope not, but maybe you guys are right. Although every party leader last night pledged to try to keep this parliament alive, every now and then politicians have been known to lie, as hard as that may be for me to believe...

:balloon2:

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Originally Posted by Sheep

Forget an adjective there? :)

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Uh sure...

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Originally Posted by ghost908

Uh sure...

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You said: "I, for one, am to hear this news."

Just wondering if you meant "I, for one, am [insert adjective here] to hear this news."

No biggie, just wondering if that's what you meant.

We need a Newfie PM. BS detector on high, good work ethic, tough, nasty sense of humour, good drinker.

Where's Brian Tobin when you need him...

Maybe now you'll just surrender without a fight ~D

I hoped the Conservatives got a majority government, but alas! The majority of Canadians still support the leftist weirdos, just not sure which leftist weirdo they want to run the show ~D

Although, we all know that when a true liberal is in charge, hostages get held in middle eastern nations for 444 days... at least it's like that in America :)

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Originally Posted by Kaiser of Arabia

Although, we all know that when a true liberal is in charge, hostages get held in middle eastern nations for 444 days... at least it's like that in America :)

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Did you mean liberal or Democrat? Cause those are not necessarily the same thing, for example in the case you are referencing.

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Originally Posted by Sheep

Did you mean liberal or Democrat? Cause those are not necessarily the same thing, for example in the case you are referencing.

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Carter was as liberal as they come lol. Well, he was an idiot.

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Originally Posted by Kaiser of Arabia

...as liberal as they come lol. Well, he was an idiot.

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Pretty much the same thing, right?

Liberals are all [insert adjective here] [And a plural noun too].


Hee hee this is [adjective]!

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Originally Posted by Kaiser of Arabia

Maybe now you'll just surrender without a fight ~D

I hoped the Conservatives got a majority government, but alas! The majority of Canadians still support the leftist weirdos, just not sure which leftist weirdo they want to run the show ~D

Although, we all know that when a true liberal is in charge, hostages get held in middle eastern nations for 444 days... at least it's like that in America :)

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LOL! If Harper pisses off too many people he's out, you know that. Plus most of us just plain don't trust Harper. I never will. Now Peter MacKay (deputy party leader and Nova Scotian) I would trust. But he's Harpers main rival for leadership. Not that I'd ever consider voting for anyone besides the NDP (socialists or far far left in you prefer).

Well hopefully you guys will get to vote again in the Summer. I prefer Canada weak and wimpy like a good socialist welfare-nanny country should be. Its cold right now so most liberals up in Canada were probably too busy smoking dope to go out and vote. You hippies will get your chance again soon I'm sure, let not your heart be troubled. Just a little pep talk from ol' DevDav, I just hope you can read what I wrote between bong hits and butt slams from your gay marraige counterparts. This American loves Canada and the Canadians, like you would that old dog that should be put to sleep but you just couldn't bare losing that grumpy, poor, pathetic animal that nips at your heels or tries to dry hump your leg and still thinks that its still on top of its game. Its so broken down but cute in its own way, that poor old doggy. Chin up Canadians, you'll be back around again and maybe this time you'll even make French your national language. Courage Comrades, courage. :2thumbsup:

That was awfully vanilla, Dave. It sounds as though you recycled half of those from the crusty neo-cons on the wrong side of the border.

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Originally Posted by NeonGod

That was awfully vanilla, Dave. It sounds as though you recycled half of those from the crusty neo-cons on the wrong side of the border.

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What? I'm trying to give some encouragement. Keep up the fight Viva le revolution Canada!!! I for one am rooting for the hippies. What's wrong with that?

BTW Neo, I had some better material but I though better of posting my complete congratulatory speech to my Canadian friends. So vanilla is what's on the menu I'm afraid. :laugh4:

Oh, come on. You can recycle that complete speech, can't you? You've already gone and dug up the classic lines for the first post.

Ersatz Tucker Carlson. A rather poor showing, I must say, DD.

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Originally Posted by Hurin_Rules

Many voters were turned off by the liberals due to corruption rather than to liberal policies. Moreover, many former liberal voters seem to have gone over to the NDP (even more left wing) rather than going Conservative.

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That would be a good sign indeed. From what I have learned from the occasional media report (I have not followed the Canadian elections closely) it seems that Harper won mainly because of a 'clean' campaign. Let us hope the Liberals learn their lesson and do some much-needed housecleaning. A year would probably be better than six months for them to sweat out the disease.

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Originally Posted by Devastatin Dave

Just a little pep talk from ol' DevDav, I just hope you can read what I wrote between bong hits and butt slams from your gay marraige counterparts.
:2thumbsup:

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C'mon north Dave, you know ya wanna. :wink3:

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Originally Posted by Beirut

... but barely.

http://www.cbc.ca/

One thing for sure, private for-profit medicine, and the state's supremacy over a woman's right to chose are non-starters. The three opposing parties will join together in a second and squash any Conservative attempts to get too funky with the Canada Health Act and woman's rights.

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Such repugnantly biased wording as this makes me sick. Murdering children cannot be glossed over by painting it as "woman's right to choose". Yet that's all media ever states it is. Talk about propaganda!

Although OP is right, the "Conservative" party in Canada is not really Conservative at all and the holocaust of Canada's children is sure to continue indefinitely under their reign.

What has it got to do with you what a woman wants to do with her own body?

And they are not children.

I have great respect for Navaros's viewpoint. Abortion is a sad and horrible thing and it's good that it is seen as such.

But for right now, until a better solution is found, the default position here in Canada must be that a woman has complete control over her body.

Is this turning into an abortion debate? Bad idea.

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Originally Posted by Kaiser of Arabia

Carter was as liberal as they come lol. Well, he was an idiot.

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Carter was actually the moderate Democrat running in 1976... that's why he won. He was pro-deregulation and also was a big fan of the military (especially the Navy). Not stereotypically liberal ideas... and that is not even mentioning his views on personal morality and religion (remember Larry Flynt?). Granted he had many other liberal characteristics. I wouldn't go so far as to call him a conservative, but I don't think he was your average run-of-the-mill liberal like McGovern was.

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Originally Posted by Sheep

and also was a big fan of the military

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You're kidding right?

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Originally Posted by Devastatin Dave

Well hopefully you guys will get to vote again in the Summer. I prefer Canada weak and wimpy like a good socialist welfare-nanny country should be. Its cold right now so most liberals up in Canada were probably too busy smoking dope to go out and vote. You hippies will get your chance again soon I'm sure, let not your heart be troubled. Just a little pep talk from ol' DevDav, I just hope you can read what I wrote between bong hits and butt slams from your gay marraige counterparts. This American loves Canada and the Canadians, like you would that old dog that should be put to sleep but you just couldn't bare losing that grumpy, poor, pathetic animal that nips at your heels or tries to dry hump your leg and still thinks that its still on top of its game. Its so broken down but cute in its own way, that poor old doggy. Chin up Canadians, you'll be back around again and maybe this time you'll even make French your national language. Courage Comrades, courage. :2thumbsup:

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:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:

Sad to see what's happening to the People's Republic of Soviet Kanuckistan :shame: