Medieval: Total Realism

https://img233.imageshack.us/img233/...erfixed3aa.jpg

Ladies and gentlemen,

Following CA’s announcement of the next Total War opus, Medieval II: Total War, it is an honour and a privilege for me to officially announce the logical sequel of the award winning Rome: Total Realism (“Best modification for Rome: Total War – Total War Center”):

Medieval: Total Realism


As a matter of fact, Total Realism fans will be able to rely on another multi-talented team made of the best modders in the business. The masterminds who brought you Rome: Total Realism, Caius Britannicus – Lead Skinner, chigga – Lead Modeller, Nzike – Lead Scripter, Dark89 – Lead Coder, will work together once again, along with the rest of the team to give you, the fans, the most thrilling experience in the history of war gaming. MTR will reach a never-been-seen level of realism and will make the immersion so complete that you will truly be Henry V’s brother as you shed your blood with him at Agincourt.

Of course, we are aware that Medieval II: Total War is far from the stores but our team will do a lot of research during summer, concept arts for units, factions (banners, shields), etc so that when the game hits the shelves, we’re ready to begin actual modding. As an example of what a concept drawing looks like, here’s a Norman helmet and a French sargeant both made by Caius. Our main objective is to provide YOU, the players, with a high quality product while setting new standards of efficiency and professionalism.

Now Total War fan, fetch your gear and embark on the ship sailing for the Holy Land of MTR. War for Total Realism has begun, and it’s going Medieval.

Thank you very much and stay tuned for more updates on the most anticipated Total War modification, Medieval: Total Realism.


- Important facts: Rome Total realism (100,000+ downloads of the latest 6.x release, most active team in the community, 6 released versions, dozens of released patches, featured if major gaming magazines throughout the world and first major modification released for RTW - http://www.totalwar.com/community/rome.htm ) would like to remind you that the development of RTR 7.0 is still continuing as planned.
- Medieval: Total Realism is NOT affiliated with Rome: Total realism except for the composition of the team and the name of the modification. MTR is NOT an undertaking of the actual RTR team.

With a bit of luck we will not have to rely on Mods to provide 'realism'

......Orda

Maybe. But you know, Shogun once said what was CA's opinion vis-à-vis realism. I don't have the quote under hand but I would be surprised if they went 100% realistic. If they want to make the game attractive for a wider audience, they need colours, style, grandeur, which aren't exactly what realism mods are looking for.

Thanks,

Ach!

This is good to know. RTR is such a vast improvement on the original that an MTR will certainly move things in the right direction wherever CA should happen to fall short.

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Good luck Achilles and the MTR team! :medievalcheers:
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Hopefully it won't be needed, but good luck :cheers:

"with a bit of luck"? "hopefully"? haha... i don't know how anyone can be THAT optimistic about the historical accuracy aspect.

There will always be room for improvement ~:cheers:

Why not call this the official pesimism thread, lol.

Nah to be honest I really hope this isn't needed, but good luck anyway.

I didn´t even need RTR so far....maybe i can just live happily in my ignorance, as long as the inaccurate, bare-chested guys on my screen are fun to play.:oops:

! Refrain from mod / game bashing!

Read the forum rules.

Well I'm not pessimistic. I just have my own vision of the type of development CA is working on. It's great but they just have to make choices and as I said, if they want to reach the wider audiences, they'll have to make it generally attractive and eye catching. So in order to do this, they'll probably drop on realism but the base product will still kick ass I'm sure.

Thanks,

Ach!

very early announcement, should have waited till after the release to get things started ~;p

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Originally Posted by Achilles!

Well I'm not pessimistic. I just have my own vision of the type of development CA is working on. It's great but they just have to make choices and as I said, if they want to reach the wider audiences, they'll have to make it generally attractive and eye catching. So in order to do this, they'll probably drop on realism but the base product will still kick ass I'm sure.

Thanks,

Ach!

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I was joking, no game will be totally accurate. I think it's great what you guys are doing. Now my knowledge about your team is sketchy. But last time I knew Caius had left RTR?? But he is coming back for MTR correct???

MTR isn't RTR. They are seperate teams and seperate organizations. Its also a different time period, one I'm more interested in.

Caius, I am glad you are planning to work on this already. Your work is superb. Perhaps the best thing about RTW compared to STW and MTW, in my opinion, is how it attracted so much attention from modders - and especially that from big teams such as RTR and EB.

CA produces amazing engines for real time battles, but (understandably) is not targeting the niche of gamers wanting hardcore historical wargames. I appreciate the way they leave the door open for modders to fill that niche.

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Originally Posted by caius britannicus

MTR isn't RTR. They are seperate teams and seperate organizations. Its also a different time period, one I'm more interested in.

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Sorry I misunderstood. It's jsut in Achilles' post it said 'sequel', which made me link it to RTR. Also it said 'the masterminds that brought you'. Just the wording confused me, my apologies.

Anyway, after seeing what your doing with this area in The Crusades, it makes me think that this will be an excellent mod.

Will there alse be a Euoropa medieval mod

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I wonder too! :jumping:
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If you're talking about a Medieval EB, I will talk to Khelvan about it. What I want to avoid is another "RTR vs EB" competition. I know him well anyway so I'm sure that we'll be able to make an honest deal. ;)

Cheers!

Ach!

Oh and yes I said "Logical sequel" because MTR isn't 100% unrelated to RTR. As I said in the little disclaimer, "MTR is NOT an undertaking of the actual RTR team."

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Originally Posted by Achilles!

If you're talking about a Medieval EB, I will talk to Khelvan about it.

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Very good idea. Healthy competition is all well and good, but here I think it might end up being a pointless duplication of work and waste of scarce modder time.

I suggest, perhaps, a different name than "Medieval: Total Realism." It associates the project with the RTR team, which has it's own problems. I don't have a good alternative, but leaving it MTR in my opinion causes too many problems. Like "Total Realism" in general, it seems to be a challenge, as if only this mod is realistic, or that it is the be-all and end-all for historical accuracy. I know that isn't what you say or mean, but that's just the way it sounds. In contrast, "Europa Barbarorum" could mean anything.

My (probably unwelcomed) $0.02 on the name of the project.

My other $0.02 involves praising the initiative and saying how needed this will be. I hope you guys really research and everything.

And I hope you'll find people outside of the RTR team to help you guys! New blood, more creativity, all that jazz.

:2thumbsup:

We do have more than just RTR people working on the mod. Of course, those I mentionned in the announcement are all RTR guys but we have a lot of quality people from outside of the community and are still looking to add some more.

As for the name, well I don't think that we'll change it. It means what it means but I'll stick with the philosophy of "The best idea is always your first". But thanks anyway for your 2 cents.

Ach!

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Originally Posted by Simon Appleton

Very good idea. Healthy competition is all well and good, but here I think it might end up being a pointless duplication of work and waste of scarce modder time.

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Yes, i think it would be good to group the realism mods together, something like has been done for the hl2 mod 'black mesa', with the different mod teams working together for a more efficient and better mod.

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Originally Posted by Mithrandir

! Refrain from mod / game bashing!

Read the forum rules.

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A little on the heavy handed side Mithrandir? I see no evidence of serious game or mod bashing. A few light hearted comments containing minor critical opinions can hardly be called bashing

......Orda

I think the warning was mostly intended to be pre-emptive.

Ajax

he actually deleted a post by someone who said some pretty harsh stuff.

Dear god you have no confidence in CA do you

I think it's not so much lack of confidence in CA as a realization that CA's market is broader than just us history nerds.

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Originally Posted by Achilles!

Well I'm not pessimistic. I just have my own vision of the type of development CA is working on. It's great but they just have to make choices and as I said, if they want to reach the wider audiences, they'll have to make it generally attractive and eye catching. So in order to do this, they'll probably drop on realism but the base product will still kick ass I'm sure.

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Just a realistic way of looking at what we want and what we can expect. I'm hoping for (and reasonably confident of) getting a great game from CA. However there are probably going to be little things that bug me about its historical accuracy, as there are in just about any 'historical' movie, game, etc. I don't know why historical accuracy doesn't sell to a mainstream audience, because it seems so much cooler than fiction to me, but I realize I'm not representative of your average entertainment consumer. It's nice to know I can rely on others who share my eccentricities to help with this, though. Thanks MTR!

Ajax

Depends... I'm pretty confident about CA releasing a pretty goddamn good game that will give us a lot of possibilities in terms of modding, with a decent AI and with cool new features. On the other hand, I'm not too confident about the realistic aspect of the game. Now one can love the game without being 100% satisfied by the realism of it right ?

Interpret that as you like.

Ach!

I certainly think you could make a more accurate realism mod for Medieval Era than Rome Era, just because you're dealing with languages that are more easily interpreted, probably more detailed accounts, better archeological evidence, etc. etc. I'm just hoping CA gives you modders a lot of breathing space, and an AI thats easier to work with than RTW.

Thank you & Good luck in advance.

I enjoyed both TW and TR games altho the only mod I tried was RTR, I really never messed with MTW or STW mods.

IMO I am pretty sure CA will take the middle ground and make the game more fun vs realistic, as the hardcore isnt the major market, you can see this more and more everyday with RTS games nothing more than who clicks the fastest.

I am surprised tho your starting so early without getting an idea of what their skins will have for all factions, but if this is a passion I guess you cant say its work either.

I dont know if Modders can be treated like press but I wonder if you guys cant get an early build of the game just like alot of press sites/mags to give you at least something you know would need changing, afterall you guys dont hurt business, since they need to buy the game to get the mod anyways. Just my 2 cents..:)

good luck. but it is a little bit curious that you announce this shortly after the Announcement of M2TR. if i had been you, i would have searched at first some information for yourselves, and after the Release of the game, than i would have announced the Mod

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Originally Posted by Orda Khan

A little on the heavy handed side Mithrandir? I see no evidence of serious game or mod bashing. A few light hearted comments containing minor critical opinions can hardly be called bashing

......Orda

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2 highly offensive posts were deleted.

If you have an issue with how I moderate, please use PM to inform me.
Not because I can't take critisism, but because threads have a nasty tendency to focus on the style of moderating instead of the original topic.

Thanks,

-Mithrandir.

Well to continue ontopic.

Its always nice to have variation in the games we play even if it is only different variations of the same game. Plus if in the MTR teams eyes they create something they prefer to play than to vanilla M2TW good for them. At the end of the day they don't have to mod the game and put in all those extra hours to let other people play a different version of the game but they do.

Good luck with the project and enjoy making it more to the point! ~:)

Looking forward to it :)
Hopefully there will be only the one big Medieval conversion though, I think two has caused too much duplication in the RTW mods.

Really hoping someone will put out a high class Rome period mod for M2TW too. Probably actually more so than the Medieval period since there really were huge empires then & a bunch of the new features should really improve the depiction of the period.

Mark my words, I'm pretty sure there will be a mod team to work on it. ;)

Thank you thank you thank you:2thumbsup:

RTR and EB have both vastly improved RTW imho.

I know there will be a variety of issues the more history-loving crowd, like me, will have with MTW2. MTR will give us a reason to keep playing MTW2 after the initial :jawdrop: has worn off. Can't wait to face the crusades as the Byzantines in tweaked RTW engined glory.:knight:

Hehe thanks for the good words. It's our main goal, to give you guys a game that's as historically accurate as possible. Luckily, we'll have a great game, M2TW to work with so I'm pretty sure that everything will be as nice as you and we could hope for.

Cheers!

Ach!

How can I join the team? I can help with any info on the Balkan region. Any type of information, from Names of leaders to provinces to units outlook.

Interesting. You should just PM me with some informations about yourself, your background, do you study history for example, stuff like that.

Ach!

Ok here's a little preview for this week. Research is still in progress (and will be for some time hehe) but here's a concept drawing produced by wraithdt. It features a unit of saracen infantry, inspired by MTW1.

Enjoy.

https://img97.imageshack.us/my.php?i...aceninf0my.jpg

Yep, that unit looks cool! By the way, where do you guys get your visual reference for medieval middle-east armour/wargear from. That really interests me...:help:

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Originally Posted by Achilles!

It features a unit of saracen infantry, inspired by MTW1.

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It looks very good, but I'd be interested in what your subsequent research finds out. The Saracen infantry was one MTW unit I thought rather suspect from a realism point of view. Saracens were not noted for their heavy infantry and it was particularly odd that their spears were more armoured than the early Catholics. I suspect that such a unit is more likely a dismounted Saracen cavalryman - necessary for sieges etc. I don't believe they fielded ranks of mail armoured spear infantry. The best I could come up with for such infantry for the Saracens were unarmoured and low quality Syrian spearmen. Such troops don't seem to have been much used in battles against the Crusaders.

Wraithdt is only warming up. This was a display of what he's able to do. This unit may or may not be in the final unit list (which is far from finished of course). It's just a sight no matter what.

Ach!

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Originally Posted by Lochar

as the hardcore isnt the major market,

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See, this is a misconception that really annoys me. There is a hard-core games market. Its not as big as the mainstream market, but neither is it as competative. "Hardcore" games have been and continue to be big sellers for those developers and publishers who have the guts and the talent to do them. EU2 springs to mind, as does the much maligned Microsoft Train Simulator. Hell, I remember when BG came out, the RPG genre was meant to be dead, especially stat-heavy DnD ones. One high quality "hardcore" RPG single-handedly revived the whole genre.

If historically accurate games are such a small, niche market, how come there are about 15 documentary channels on Sky TV? How come my local bookshop has huge amounts of shelf-space devoted to history books?

Looking very good guys, like the style of concept art :2thumbsup:

Hey people,

Just wanted to clarify that any conceptual sketches we're doing at this stage are just preliminary and not final. We are doing this based on our own knowledge and references at the moment. So once the research team gets going you'll be seeing changes on the unit designs. For the time being I'll try my best to conform closely to whatever historical references I can find. Cheers!

I for one have greatly enjoyed the RTR mod (it improved the gameplay value of the original RTW 10x) and I think it's great that we are going to enjoy the same quality product for MTW2. Thanks for all the hard work and great fun you've provided so far and I wish you luck on your new modding endeavour!:2thumbsup:

Since we have a couple concept drawings in reserve, I'll post another one right now. Once again, Wraithdt did the drawing. It represents a Templar Knight. Remember that this is only a concept (hey just as in concept art ;) ) and that it might or might not be in the final units list.

Enjoy!

https://img214.imageshack.us/my.php?...rknight0px.jpg

Wraithdt is very talented! Are you gonna feed us just one at a time to keep this thread going?

And would that be a problem ? Because for now, yes it's the plan. Since the game isn't out yet, we can't really post previews of models and skins right ? So we show concept arts.

Ach!

Personally I find this concept art as interesting to see as a screenshot, perhaps even more. But I meant that I find it a bit of a pity that you do not show all those wonderfull concept art all at once and instead drip feeding it to us like a large games developer.

Actually those concepts look like redraws of the actual units we can see in the CA screenshots , is quite early to shoot at CA sayng they didn't do a good job and say it is unhistorical ...:book:

Thanks for your compliments guys.

Prometheus: If you're implying that my sketches are copies of M2TW screen shots, you're sadly mistaken. I use my own historical references or whatever the team provides. Although these concepts are heavily referenced, they're never copied nor traced; I'm a professional artist just so you know.
Also, I somewhat agree with you that it might seem a little early to be starting on the mod, but very few of us are actually working on it at this moment. I'm only doing these concepts to warm myslef up untill we begin actual development and to provide you guys with some little teasers. Needless to say there are alot of ppl out there who'd love to play the realism mod and we all know that Vanilla M2TW will not be 100% historically accurate (although deep down I hope I'm wrong....). Thats why we're starting early.

Yes Prom it might be a bit early but I wonder if you read about the cannons mounted on elephants ? I do not doubt that the game will be awesome in terms of possibilities etc, I just think that CA has to make choices between a historically accurate game and a flashy-exentrique game. That's their choice to make but I think that most of us around here can already guess. ;)

Ach!

Whel may seem strange , but as I remember those Cannons on Elephants where used by Moghul Indian troops .....more than a Cannon was a Colubrine tough....

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Originally Posted by Achilles!

Yes Prom it might be a bit early but I wonder if you read about the cannons mounted on elephants ?

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:dizzy2:


I missed that one! :no:

Oh yes I also heard references of cannons mounted on elephants but I doubt that this technique was used so regularly. Just like flaming pigs. Having been used once or twice doesn't really justify a unit ? I don't think so.

Well, I applaud the Total Realism guys for all of their efforts and the countless hours required to make up a great Mod. I personally loved RTR and it made the original vanilla Rome a much more challenging and engaging game.

As for planning a TR for MTW2 I am definitely looking forward to seeing what you guys will do with whatever CA finally delivers. From all of their promotions it seems they are focusing on the graphic aspects and have not mentioned as much about adjusting gameplay which is precisely where your efforts can add balance.

I was also wondering... not that I'm encouraging it mind you but has anyone tried reverse engineering some of the hardcoded aspects of the game to adjust gameplay? I know CA has given great leeway in adjusting the game but there are still things that could be vastly improved with a little tweaking.

Man, I can't wait to take to the field in full glory my Katakaphroi charging deep into ranks of the Catholics as my Byzantine Infantry cut swaths through their lines... All in the name of the Orthodox church of course.

Cracking the hardcode, so to say, is technically illegal. I know some people tried to. I also know if they succeeded or not. And I also know that no one from the MTR team tried it and that if anyone of them would ever try to do something illegal, they'd get booted.

Thanks for the kind words.

Ach!

Denster, wait till u see some of the concepts in reserve we got:

Elite Byzantine peasants with irresistible complaints and high morale in riot conditions. :P

I'm responsible for Byzantine concepts and we've got them in reserve. So ur at the majesty and terrible power of Achilles. Bow before his mighty wireless mouse!!!

CA usually didn't invent from scratch units , this happened for rome TW with Arcani and flaming pigs , screeching wimen etc ..... all laughed becouse they didn't know they where really present in history .....now will probably happen the same....

here from wikipedia

The Third Battle of Panipat took place on January 14, 1761 at Panipat (Haryana State, India) about 80 miles (130 km) north of Delhi, between the Maratha forces of north-western India aiding their allies, the Mughal Empire, and Afghan forces under Ahmad Shah Abdali. It is believed that nearly 100,000 people either died or were injured on both sides in the one-day battle, though some historians estimate the total to be nearer to 60,000.

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In response, the Afghan officers stiffened their troops resistance. Abdali sent his body guards to call up his reserves of 10,000 from his camp and arranged it as column right in front his and cavalry of musketeers, and swivel mounted cannons on the back of camels. because of their positioning on camels they could fire an extensive salvo over the heads of their own infantry and at the Maratha cavalry, who were unable to withstand the rifled muskets and camel-mounted swivel cannons of the Afghans.

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this stated the use of camel mounted cannos wich to me seems even more digfficult to believe than a elephant mounted cannon ..... but it was there historically true .... believe it or not ,realism is made via proves and archeology , not suppositions that if u don't think is possible then it is not...

Find me ten evidences of the use of such a unit and then hey we might consider it. Of course flaming pigs have been used. Of course some arcani-type unit existed and screeching women also. But when their use hadn't been misinterpreted, they had only been used once or twice which isn't enough (at least not in my opinion) to steal a unit slot from a more frequently used unit.

Wrong , they where re once or twice , but their use probably went far beyond that number if where used effectively ....ported may be

The thing about camels may be a Wikipedia mistake. I'm pretty sure they were elephants, which were also used--according to a small number of sources and in small numbers--with mounted cannons (really just large calibre muskets) in battles with the EIC and the Portuguese.

No. It is not a mistake. It was an established practice in armies in central Asia to put guns on the backs of camels. They were called zanburaks.

I must say that from what I know , I ' have read and seen the CA reconstructions are historically quite accurate this time , I don't think there could be the need of a Realism mod as for the units , at least we could need a more nice texture pack , but units are really more accurate historically speacking than they where for rtw ....

You got a problem soldier ? If you want to keep up a anti-realism-mods propaganda, well suit yourself. Just keep it out of here from now on. We continue as planned and there isn't a single person who will make us change our minds.

Thanks,

Ach!

Moderator note: edited for language

Someone is a ... posting "propaganda" just because he doesn't agree with everything you say or think? Rofl







Moderator note: edited for language.

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Originally Posted by Furious Mental

Someone is a ... posting "propaganda" just because he doesn't agree with everything you say or think? Rofl

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Just because Prom doesn't agree with the need for a Total Realism mod doesn't mean you should call him a ...

He's just obviously a big fan of vanilla TW games and doesn't need more realism than what comes out of the box.

As for Camels and Elephants equipped with cannons, I think putting large cannons on wheels and drawing them is a much more effective means of using such heavy artillery.

I don't think the guns that brought down the walls of Constantinople were on the backs of Elephants... Or Camels for that matter...

They'd be too small to be used for anything short of trying to hit some infantry, the animals would be too easy to spook or drive off of the field, and would more than likely be too inaccurate and hard to reload to make a huge difference in any battle, or I'm sure they'd be a lot more than just an obscure reference.

IMHO, a nice experiment, just like flaming pigs, that never gained much more use than that.

Moderator note: edited for language.

Achilles, you just got your thread closed. :no: