Bethesda to charge for small plugins for Oblivion

I have just posted this on the total war forum, this may not be the appropriate place I apologise in advance, but I think it could be relevant for the future modding of all games.

Bethesda to charge for small plugins for Oblivion (armour for your horse) personally I think this is a disgrace and a slippery slope, the money is not the issue for me but the principle can you imagine if CA charged for a new Roman unit! How would modders feel if after giving all their time and expertise to creating something better for free see game companies creating small add-ons for profit? Would they be less inclined to mod? This is a virus that could spread to other developers.

It makes sense. Easy to make a lot more money for little effort.

It will backfire eventually though. EA will try selling a game which doesn't work without you buying an add-on and get wasted by EU business law.

Where exactly did you hear this? I don't think it's credible, interviews from as recently as a week ago have Bethesda saying they're going to be releasing free downloads. They did the same thing with Morrowind (FREE downloads).

I’m afraid it appears to be true, there is a thread on the official forum, which is now locked. Came from an interview.

Yep, it's official quite some time now. Bethesda wants to offer downloadable content for Oblivion on a regular basis, charging "some bucks" for each plugin but promises to offer more worthwhile content then their Morrowind plugins had.

Modders always seemed to make better plugins anyway... If I like Oblivion I wouldn't mind dishing out the few extra $$ if a plugin adds a LOT of content.

I'm not sure this is any different in principle from charging for an expansion. As someone keenly looking forward to an Alexander add-on to RTW, I can't really object here.

The only danger I worry about is what it implies for modding? If a company goes this route, it sounds like they would have an interest in preventing modding, as it will compete with the add-ons they will charge for.

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Originally Posted by Simon Appleton

I'm not sure this is any different in principle from charging for an expansion. As someone keenly looking forward to an Alexander add-on to RTW, I can't really object here.

The only danger I worry about is what it implies for modding? If a company goes this route, it sounds like they would have an interest in preventing modding, as it will compete with the add-ons they will charge for.

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Indeed, I worry that it might result in cease-and-desists to people who are doing mod projects that are a bit too close to something that the developers are working on for a paid download.

Oh well, unless the content of these "official" mods is extremely worthwhile I don't think I will be inclined to pay for them - they would have to be a lot better than the ones for Morrowind (that female armour one turned Sirrolus Saccus into a cross-dresser!).

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Originally Posted by Wakizashi

Modders always seemed to make better plugins anyway... If I like Oblivion I wouldn't mind dishing out the few extra $$ if a plugin adds a LOT of content.

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I'd pay for something like "The Illuminated Order" or even for "Wakim's Game Improvements", but I can't imagine paying for Bitter Coast Sounds.

Oh no, of course not. I wouldn't give Bethesda a dime. If they plan on trying to sell their plugins, they had better well be Epic.

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Originally Posted by IPoseTheQuestionYouReturnTheAnswer

Where exactly did you hear this? I don't think it's credible, interviews from as recently as a week ago have Bethesda saying they're going to be releasing free downloads. They did the same thing with Morrowind (FREE downloads).

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The official forum. Trust me it's true, and it sucks.

The first charged thing will be for horse armor (but you can't fight on horses) and holidays. And this was because of Xbox.

It all depends on how much they want to charge, especially for something as inane as horse armour, I might throw em' a dollar... but anything more than that and I will be hesitant.

I say only one thing. I'll enver buy it, and i will get it by alternative ways if it's possible.

Perhaps ye are all overreacting. Why you ask? Let me extrapolate.

Building a new game engine takes years of work, and truckloads of money investment. Also, retail outlets require their own part of the eventual take, as they must put the physical game boxes up in stores for people to purchase, provide labor at checkout aisles, etc., adding more dollars onto a game's price.
Perhaps Bethesda is trying a Valve-like manuever with continual online content, direct to the customer, and any profit made goes directly back to the development house. Although Bethesda is still working with a large game production company, this move might be their "master plan" to undermine that relationship, and become independent, much as Valve's Adventures with Steam(yeah yeah, buggy at first, but independent games! games that matter, propel the medium forward, etc.).
Although I agree any purchase will require a cost vs. benefit analysis in this case, and it is unfortunate to see the previously free model used for money, perhaps it still ain't so nefarious for this reason. Bethesda may not want to spend years developing a new game and engine for a big release, then have it become out of date within months, as far as graphics/sound technology is concerned, or as far as playing time is concerned. Perhaps this way they can continue to update Oblivion, keeping it up to par and extending the story and content to provide more meat for the players. It will cost money, but should be far less(for players and the developers) than a totally new Elder Scrolls coming out every 4(or more) years.
And I know I used the Valve analogy many times, but I'm not surprised by this move by other developers, because Valve seems to have hit on a nice idea with this "episodic content" with two upcoming titles. Which is fine, for maybe I CAN FINALLY KNOW WHO THE G-MAN IS(or what he is), WITHOUT WAITING 7 YEARS.

Just offering some ideas of the benefits. And don't pirate shizz. Especially if its Oblivion type goodness, work that deserves rewarding.

IMO it Wont work.
the plugins will be released for free within a day of some 1 paying for them, Lots of people detest this sort of underhanded profit venture.
and as such just give the things away for free after paying for them.

Moders will make their own versions which would haft to be free.
And if things get really silly.
Modders will start trying to charge for their plugins which will infringe copyright laws.

I say its a bad idea.
and one which wont last to long.

Did you even read my post??


Please Rebel Against the Smilies(RAtS)

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Originally Posted by Steppe Merc

The official forum. Trust me it's true, and it sucks.

The first charged thing will be for horse armor (but you can't fight on horses) and holidays. And this was because of Xbox.

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So they can guarantee the "family safe" nature of some of the content I bet - that was the big problem with allowing fan-made content to be available on Microsoft's network apparently.

Personally I think anyone who gets these games for a console is a loon - mod content can be really excellent, so why people would remove their own ability to access it is something I cannot comprehend in the slightest.

Well I think it har to do with porting the mods to the xbox 360, nothing comes free in the world of Mikrosoft, and that Bethesda (sp?) didn't want to treat PC users and Xbox users differently. None the less, I'll wait for the free mods from the modding comunity. It's the modding comuinty in Morrowind and the total war series that keeps me playing these games over and over again. Keep up the good work all modders!

It is unbeliveable how mutch good content the modding communitys make both with RTW and in Morrowind.

Say no to paying game developers for mods that ought to bee in the game the first time. Let's hope this dosetnt get to become a trend in the industry.

Oblivion looks to be all eye-candy... for a proper RPG with a kick ass combat system, you only have to try "Mount & Blade" - best "simulation" of medieval combat I've ever tried - also includes PROPER mounted combat with polearms :D

And in Q4 of 2006, Age of Conan will hopefully lay waste to all mmorpg's before it, with a similar combat system. :)

Have they finished mount & blade yet?

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Originally Posted by Just A Girl

Have they finished mount & blade yet?

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No, but it's improving a lot...

I e-mailed the buggers anyhow objecting in a polite way to this, Made me feel good.

Oblivion is not about combat.... neither was Morrowind. It's about the story, and having ultimate freedom.

After Valve opened Steam and people being able to buy content of that it seems publishers are copying that "avenue".

One example are the new booster packs for Battlefield 2, with the upcoming Euro Force. Although in this case it might be worth the money if its 10$ as you get 3 maps, new weapons and new vehicles...or is it?

If developers/publishers wish to sell addons then they can do so for all I care. I only worry for the reprecussions in can possibly have on the modding community as a whole.

Its a sad fact that companies are now realizing that they can squeeze even more money out of their titles by making and charging for "official" mods. I doubt that will really stop anything tho, within the week the horse armor comes out a creative modder will have made a better mod creating better horse armor then bethesda did. The elder scrolls is a nice game though, definately the epitamy of what a modders game is. I wish activision had given the editor that they used to build RTW with the game also.

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Originally Posted by BigTex

Its a sad fact that companies are now realizing that they can squeeze even more money out of their titles by making and charging for "official" mods. I doubt that will really stop anything tho, within the week the horse armor comes out a creative modder will have made a better mod creating better horse armor then bethesda did. The elder scrolls is a nice game though, definately the epitamy of what a modders game is. I wish activision had given the editor that they used to build RTW with the game also.

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I'm very curious about how they will control content from a paid-for plugin being used (and replicated in) fan-made plugins. There is none in Morrowind, and I wonder if any kind of control code will reduce the functionality of the new TESCS.

Other than this I'm not sure how Bethesda's decision to have paid-for content expansions would affect modders? Their previous expansions (in traditional CD format, purchased from a store) added new stuff for modders, doing more good than harm despite the $50 (or so) initial cost of the expansion disc.

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Its a sad fact that companies are now realizing that they can squeeze even more money out of their titles

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Are now realizing? Ever heard of MMO monthly fees? Ten bucks a month or more from each customer doesn't go purely to "server maintenance", whatever they tell you.

And metthinks this whole thread is full of overreaction. I know I've already wrote a novel earlier about it, but still, if the horse armor is too expensive, JUST DON'T BUY IT. And besides, no matter what little add-ons they may charge, modders will still mod away. Why? Hell, there's an infinite number of people in the world who need a hobby, ANY hobby.

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Originally Posted by Modestus

I have just posted this on the total war forum, this may not be the appropriate place I apologise in advance, but I think it could be relevant for the future modding of all games.

Bethesda to charge for small plugins for Oblivion (armour for your horse) personally I think this is a disgrace and a slippery slope, the money is not the issue for me but the principle can you imagine if CA charged for a new Roman unit! How would modders feel if after giving all their time and expertise to creating something better for free see game companies creating small add-ons for profit? Would they be less inclined to mod? This is a virus that could spread to other developers.

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If a company makes a mod and makes it pay , why can't we make pay the mods we do ?

Perhaps if a few less people downloaded games illegally it wouldn't have come to this. As it stands, I'm glad large game studios aren't ditching the PC as a platform altogether and heading for the more profitable (read: people actually buy the games) consoles.

Perhaps I haven't read it all properly, but isn't it just the official downloads that cost money? Or do consumers from now on also have to pay to download fan-made mods or the ability to use them?

You know this could be a good thing, by making you pay they make it more likely they'll produce beeter plugins and they also can't provide it "as is" so bug testing will be better.

Hell you pay'd for the game and the expansions, the only difference here is you don't get it in a box.

And in the future some accountant will say, “you know all those brilliant free mods are our competition is there anything we can do about that?”

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Originally Posted by PROMETHEUS

If a company makes a mod and makes it pay , why can't we make pay the mods we do ?

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Because we are basing our work on someone's intellectual property (in EBs case, the RTW engine) and if we took money for our mods, we would in effect be taking paid for someone elses work.

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ecause we are basing our work on someone's intellectual property (in EBs case, the RTW engine) and if we took money for our mods, we would in effect be taking paid for someone elses work.

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I think thats a little debatable though, considering you did create this mod, and the person paying for the mod is just paying for the mod. Which is your work, i'd almost like to see a couple supreme court decisions specifically on the legalities of moding.

If you try to debate it in court, you will lose.

Quite simply, the company that created the game owns the right to distribute its code.

By definition, a modification is a change to the code of an existing product. Unless one has acquired the rights to sell that existing product, one cannot charge money for one's modification.

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Originally Posted by khelvan

Quite simply, the company that created the game owns the right to distribute its code.

By definition, a modification is a change to the code of an existing product. Unless one has acquired the rights to sell that existing product, one cannot charge money for one's modification.

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IP rights for games are very strange at times, however if they weren't protected then no company would invest in game-making at all.

So long as noone is skimming off the potential profit for the company, however, it seems like most are happy to let mods be made - as free promotion and to reduce their need to update content periodically.

Personally, I think the "business model" could probably stand some changes but its tricky to do it, and it sounds a bit weird, so selling it to investors would be a bit of a task.

Oh well, whatever the reasoning, EB can't/won't charge, so everyone just count yourself lucky and donate to maintain their site. :)

Again, if a mod wanted to charge money for its work, it would only be able to do so with the express written consent of whatever company developed, and also no doubt the publisher of, the game, and probably including a substantial financial investment.

We are no more likely to see a mod challenge this in court than we are to see joe schmoe off the street take XP, modify it a little bit, and sell it as "Joe's OS." Or modify Word, and start selling it.

Joe would have his ass sued off the planet by Microsoft, just as any modder would for doing the same.

I was expanding on your point khelvan, not rebutting you. Sorry if that was unclear. :)

I've got a bit of an interest in intellectual property rights so I find it hard to avoid blithering about it.

:horn: Its released today! And I'd be willing to wager there will be mods for it on Morrowind Summit today. Will be picking it up Friday, hopefully my computer can handle it.:laugh4:

I don't know about anyone else likes, but I can't wait to play Oblivion.

It's always cool to know that before you play a game, that you're going to play a game that will be really, really, really good.

My pre-ordered collector's edition should be waiting for me at my local store tomorrow. Or else I shall reap a terrible harvest of skulls at the mall. :skull:

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Originally Posted by Trithemius

My pre-ordered collector's edition should be waiting for me at my local store tomorrow. Or else I shall reap a terrible harvest of skulls at the mall. :skull:

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Thanks to you I just used half the amount of money on my bank account for the Collector's Edition.