Bridge Defence

Hmm I am playing the ERE in BI with no battle time limits. I was defending a bridge with a large Sassanid army on the opposite bank. They attacked me, I decided to fight the battle and set up my troops on the opposite side of the bank, waiting for the onslaught ( they outnumbered me by over 2 to 1). However after the initial missile exchange ( over 1000 casualties to the Sassanids:laugh4: ) I used all my missiles and sat there waiting for the infantry assault. I waited....and waited... I went and had my dinner, played with my daughter and came back to see what had happened.... Nothing The Sassanids did not move they just sat there. I had to cross the bridge to kill them I won the battle but lost more troops than I would have if the Sassanids had attacked.

My point is, that I was the defender and should have been attacked not the other way around... Has anybody else had the same. Or is it the case that enemies will only attack if there is a battle timer.

I am really not looking forward to being besieged by a Horde who just sits out of range and forces me to sally forth or exit the battle and lose!

Has anybody else experienced the same?

yes-I have found that sending a disposable unit- like velites can help stir them into action.
I have also had seiges and sallies where this has happened- I think it has something to do with the AI deciding it is too risky to get any closer to your troops. I haven't tried yet but I think moving some of your troops can help break the deadlock.
It is situations like this however that shows why the time limit is actually quite useful.

I tried to send troops over the bridge to try to stir the enemy into action nope they just sat there, I even sent skirmishers swimming accross the river. I wish that I hadn't switched the timer off now :(

No, fortunetly, I haven't had that problem. Usually I put a spear unit at the bridge choke point for the enemy to run onto, and have missle troops harrass the swimmers (in BI).

In that situation, I would use all my missle units, on there troops if they are going to just sit there are wait. I'm sure you already did that though.

Yea I sat there and fired all my missiles at the enemy until there was a big pile of dead bodies ( probably over 1000 dead) If the AI wasn't going to attack why did it bother??
The AI still had 6+ units of Spearman left as well as 1 unit of Clibinari ( ?) all intact.

I even sent a unit of Heavy Infantry accross the bridge to see if they would attack but.... you guessed it no.

One time I had this nice campaign battle with limit as Macedon at the bridge between Carthage and Thapsus. I simply placed 2 units of levies on the bridge, and used my cavalry against the army attacking me at the rear. Lost hardly any cavalry and somewhere in the region of 2 or 3 levies (soldiers not units). The cavalry killed the non-cav reinforcements easily and at the bridge it was pure slaughter: not even their elephants with high hp could get through.

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Originally Posted by Grumfoss

I tried to send troops over the bridge to try to stir the enemy into action nope they just sat there, I even sent skirmishers swimming accross the river. I wish that I hadn't switched the timer off now :(

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I think it is situations like this that reinforce the need for it- along with units getting stuck on walls fighting to the death and having enemy units get stuck behind terrain features. there are times you need to be able to simply let the timer run out so you don't lose the battle.

If the game were perfect and bug free (not something any game will manage) then you could easily play without it but this is a reason it is there. Besides I cannot think of many situations where you need the extra time anyway. I have usually won or lost by the half way point.

Yeah,, happened to me a few times. Now I always use the timer. 40 minutes is more than enough to win a battle, imo. And its just enough to hold off a superior attacking force when defending a settlement.

units that can swim why dont they use the bridge at all?

once the enemy got over the bridge but there i could turn the war. all enemy fled, i let the remainings of my light cav chase after, the enemy infantry ran over the bridge, but my light cav start to swim in the water. the infantry was already on the other side before my cav got to the water so there were no "obstacles" on the bridge.

i tried to make a long formation right infront of the bridge but yet the cav ran into the water.

since it take quite a while to swim most of my routing enemy got away.

You can try with General unit. He will be tempting to them if he is moving to other side of bridge. And will be fast enough to getting back to own lines with enemy following.

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Originally Posted by Bartix

You can try with General unit. He will be tempting to them if he is moving to other side of bridge. And will be fast enough to getting back to own lines with enemy following.

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Yup, that always work! Same thing on any other battlefield too. Just stroll him up close and taunt the enemy and they soon come running one by one after him. If they stop, you stop and re-lure etc.

This happened to me in my BI games a few times but strangely not in any Rome game so far. I usually now play with the timer on as a result but...

....if you've caused significant casualties on the enemy but they're just still sitting there, how about pressing "esc". You can exit the battle, the computer calculates the end result. I have yet to loose when doing this AS LONG AS I make sure that I've caused significant casualties and its basically a forgone conclusion anyway.

On the bridge battle that I was playing, I sent my General over to the enemy side of the bridge, I ran them around the enemy army and then back across the bridge... They still didn't move. Usually this works.

I must admit that I didn't want to exit the battle as I did not want to lose and be forced to abandon my strong position. I did kill over 1000 so I probably would have won. Oh you live and learn ~;)

I HATE (!!!!) it that when I want my armies to cross the bridge they go via the water. IT TAKES ages!!

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Originally Posted by Cras

I HATE (!!!!) it that when I want my armies to cross the bridge they go via the water. IT TAKES ages!!

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Yes, and it seems when I want to charge a fleeing enemy to utterly destroy them, instead of crossing the bridge my dumb cavalry usually try to go through the water instead!:furious3:

"Can swim" should be replaced with "Doesn't know what bridges are for" in the unit descriptions. Very annoying not being able to chase down routers across the bridge with light cav - means the fleeing enemy general usually escapes! Also have the same problem trying to send a "swimming" unit along river bank if the formation is wide - some jump in the water rather than running along the ground.

But river defence is still the best way to hold off the hordes -- though when they attack with 5 stacks in five separate battles in one turn it can get a bit repetitive.

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Originally Posted by Grumfoss

My point is, that I was the defender and should have been attacked not the other way around... Has anybody else had the same. Or is it the case that enemies will only attack if there is a battle timer.

I am really not looking forward to being besieged by a Horde who just sits out of range and forces me to sally forth or exit the battle and lose!

Has anybody else experienced the same?

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I have exactly the same experiences my friend. The way I see it is that's the rough that goes with the smooth. I play no time limits too, and sometimes it forces you to act instead of just sitting waiting to inflict carnage... maybe not a bad thing sometimes, as it is a little too easy to sit in a corner with your nice pointy pikes, I'm sure we've all done it when we really are buggered. But it's still as cheap as some bridge battles or city defenses.

Alexanderofmacedon Amen to that.

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Originally Posted by Grumfoss

Hmm I am playing the ERE in BI with no battle time limits.

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That's why I always use time limits.

Timelimits and triple game speed are a lifesaver sometimes. Better to accept a draw than chasing illusive units. Regarding bridgecrossings I found that setting your units/ army on column formation before passing and some light cavs needs to be manually directed over the bridge.

I never succeed in making swim unit cross the bridge.

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Originally Posted by player1

I never succeed in making swim unit cross the bridge.

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its same for me, even if my cav or other units that can swim chase routing units they other stops at the bridge or start to swim, its very anoying

Yup, swimming units can't be directed on to the bridge at all.

I had a funny one last night. My Slingers were swimming across the river, the computer sent a unit of light cavalry to wait for them to climb out of the river. I decided to return them to the allied side of the river. They swam about 3/4 of the way back and then started dieing. Not one of the unit survived.(lots of little floating bodies) I checked to enemy army and he had no missile units so my slingers had not been shot whilst swimming. I suppose they must have got tired and drowned.

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Originally Posted by Grumfoss

I had a funny one last night. My Slingers were swimming across the river, the computer sent a unit of light cavalry to wait for them to climb out of the river. I decided to return them to the allied side of the river. They swam about 3/4 of the way back and then started dieing. Not one of the unit survived.(lots of little floating bodies) I checked to enemy army and he had no missile units so my slingers had not been shot whilst swimming. I suppose they must have got tired and drowned.

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Yeah that happens to the Huns in my campaign all the time.

Exhaustion is fatal when you're swimming, worse than arrows!

wrediculous.... like a fit warrior cannot swim across a river and back!!

I have only ever had one bridge battle since ive been playing RTW.

Its not an experience I want to repeat. It was the closest and bloodiest battle Ive had.

I am the defender. Outnumbered and balance of forces against me.
https://img139.imageshack.us/img139/...53s53bz.th.jpg

How I set up. The enemy are top notch peasants. Gold chevrons and weapons/armour. RTW V1.5 H/H difficulty. Its a dull rainy day. A grim day. A grim day to die.
https://img96.imageshack.us/img96/12...53s67ww.th.jpg
Two cavalry units are ordered to sprint across the bridge before the gaul get there. There is not much time. The Gaul Peasants are running for the bridge.

https://img96.imageshack.us/img96/85...53s74xh.th.jpg
Cavalry make it although are being charged. Will just avoid battle.

https://img80.imageshack.us/img80/78...53s81at.th.jpg
I have seen others post 'v' shaped phalanx formations at the exit to bridges and gateways. So thought I would try that with the mercenary barbarian units. But my execution is flawed. One unit is facing the wrong way ! Turn them around quick. War crys going off. Missiles being used. Cavalry in the far distance being chased by Gaul.

https://img81.imageshack.us/img81/21...53s97xr.th.jpg
Oh bother. This is not going to be easy. Those Gaul peasants have too many upgrades. Look at all the little banners they carry. I am suffering losses and none of the enemy is routing. Trying Hastati. Maybe they will fare better.

https://img143.imageshack.us/img143/...3s104ld.th.jpg
There goes my first unit routing. My Barbarian mercenaries are no match for these super peasants. General tries to help. Will engage my Triarii in the flank. Maybe their spears can poke at the peasants on the bridge.

https://img80.imageshack.us/img80/62...3s113vn.th.jpg
Trying to make more open room for cavalry/general to charge more effectively. No not really..there goes another unit routing. Spearmen in place. Hastati have clear shots for their last pila.

Lost the shot of the first Gaul unit to rout on the bridge. Do I have a chance after all.

https://img143.imageshack.us/img143/...3s130nx.th.jpg
On the far bank the two cavalry units that have been chased all over now team up and one cav unit runs into the back of peasants chasing the other cav unit. As soon as the peasants stop to fight the 2nd cav unit turns back to charge and the first Gaul rout on the far bank occurs. Thinking I have a chance.

https://img88.imageshack.us/img88/13...3s146cr.th.jpg
Hopes soon swing low again as at the bridge ive lost my Hastati. They just melted away and got slaughtered. General getting weak. Triarii are not a Phalanx and are falling very cheaply. Cav on the far bank are learning to work togther and have vindicated the decision to send them over there. I think the exhaustion of the peasants has helped and once they saw their friends routing are become vulnerable. My peasants are now on the fringe of the bridge fight. If they dont suffer losses too fast they may hold a while.

https://img140.imageshack.us/img140/...3s157ra.th.jpg
There go the two barbarian mercenary units routing. My general and the cavalry unit at the bridge take it in turns to charge one flank of the bridge. One of the distant cavalry units is running back to the bridge. Very tired..has been running most the time since battle start.

https://img81.imageshack.us/img81/49...3s161ia.th.jpg
Will cavalry charge from behind be the hammer blow to the break Gaul morale ?

Nope.
https://img89.imageshack.us/img89/75...3s177ku.th.jpg
The end is nigh. The cavalry charge across the bridge did nothing. I decided to change tactics with bad results. My troops were loosing the stand up battle but the two cavalry in the open had showed what they could do. So I ordered all troops at the bridge to run in opposite directions out from the bridge. I reasoned that fanning out would draw individual Gaul units apart and allow me to single them out with the cavalry. This was the result...no longer defending the area the infantry just instant routed. The Triarii were gone in a blink of an eye. The general is blowing his rally horn for all he is worth.

https://img96.imageshack.us/img96/75...3s184tr.th.jpg
My Peasant and Illyrian mercenaries rally. Plan to split up the gaul goes into action. Far bank cavalry still has a full stregth gaul unit chasing it.

In the tense battles that followed I forgot to take shots.

Now its looking better.
https://img157.imageshack.us/img157/...3s196ky.th.jpg
Cavalry is getting very weak. Everyone is exhausted. Hitting individual Gaul from multiple sides and mobbing with my peasants is breaking Gaul units morale.

Just when I thought it was ok.
https://img83.imageshack.us/img83/75...3s205te.th.jpg
My peasants doing what peasant do best. Routing at the sight of the enemy. 'Come back coward' rally call from my general who gets close to the routers in case that helps. But units dont seem to recover until they get space between themselves and the enemy. The elite Gaul peasants are not allowing that space to develop. Time to charge a cav unit into the rear of the Gaul peasants.

This is it. The final encounter.
https://img164.imageshack.us/img164/...3s211jt.th.jpg
All are fighting, exhausted, taking casualties. My peasants routing....again

Two of my cavalry units rout....again
https://img80.imageshack.us/img80/85...3s220lz.th.jpg
One is wiped out. My Peasants rally. Never ever say peasants are always worthless. In comes the cavalry on yet another charge yet the Barb Cavalry now routs. This is still finely balanced. Expecting my peasants to rout.

Then it happens. The Peasant general dies. The fight was already finely balanced. Causes the rout. Heroic VICTORY.
https://img80.imageshack.us/img80/83...3s235cj.th.jpg
3 units left !

So how would you have fought this with these troops?

One unit across the bridge mouth perhaps? Lots of rally and war cries going off from troops behind. Let the Gaul exhaust themselves whilst one unit only stood in guard position?

Not fight on the bridge at all and pick off single units?

When defending a bridge, I like to put my phalanx units about halfway across the bridge; that way they cannot be flanked. Archers on the left side of the bridge, so they're hitting the side without a shield.

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Originally Posted by gardibolt

When defending a bridge, I like to put my phalanx units about halfway across the bridge; that way they cannot be flanked. Archers on the left side of the bridge, so they're hitting the side without a shield.

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R u playing BI? I remember that putting a unit on the bridge works better in BI than vanilla. In vanilla I put two phalanxes in a V-shape and on hold formation at the end of the bridge. Rest your army and watch the grinding - outstanding defence!

i once played with Rebels, and i defended a crossing. a gaul army came to defeat me but i stood my ground. but the routers routed directly into my Phalanx (i used greek mercs and greek rebels from massilia) the result. no one survived

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Originally Posted by PseRamesses

R u playing BI? I remember that putting a unit on the bridge works better in BI than vanilla. In vanilla I put two phalanxes in a V-shape and on hold formation at the end of the bridge. Rest your army and watch the grinding - outstanding defence!

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I use the unit on the bridge in both vanilla and BI.
When you say a V-shape, is the point of the V pointing towards the bridge or away from it?

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Originally Posted by gardibolt

I use the unit on the bridge in both vanilla and BI.
When you say a V-shape, is the point of the V pointing towards the bridge or away from it?

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Away. This way the enemy units have to choose which one to confront/ react to while the other keeps stabbing them in the back andf side.

I always use a v or a box of good infantry at the mouth of the bridge with missile troops at either side. keep your general just behind them to keep morale up and watch the troops sparkle as they gain experience. phalanx is best but any good infantry will do.