Well since my other poll got shut down. I started this one
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Well since my other poll got shut down. I started this one
Still no "Gah" option. What's more, what should language skills have to do with whether or not you stay?
The big arguments against allowing for unfettered immigration from Mexico are:
-Depression of lower end wages
-Drain on social services infrastructure
-Lack of willingness to assimilate.
Your English language requirement only tangentially touches on the 3rd reason. There's plenty of people in MEChA that speak English, if only to say "This is our country now, Gringo!". That doesn't exactly strike me as somebody we should allow to stay while we deport his hardworking, industrious, loyal, yet non-English speaking cousin.
dang, sorry i forgot, can you edit polls?Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Corleone
As I said before:
Secure the border, then start deporting all the ones we can find. Enough whining about how it'd take a long time. Sure, it would. But it'd also get the message across that we will find you, thousands of miles from the border and maybe years later, and we will grab you and your illegal family and throw your sorry butt on the next prison bus to mexico.
Quick deportation and harsh punishment for hiring illegals will reduce the number trying to get in. Another amnesty and half-hearted enforcement of existing laws will not.
Also, require knowledge of English to enter, only give government services in English (none of this crap that gov't agencies have to have people who speak every single language in the world), only give ballots in English, etc.
Here's a good article from the perspective of someone who's father tried to assimilate, not demand the USA allow him:
My first-generation father: Come legally or stay home
Crazed RabbitQuote:
MEDFORD -- The protesters waving signs in Portland, Eugene and Alba Park in Medford might look good to you. But for me, a second-generation Mexican, and my father, who came here legally from Mexico City, the protests aren't only disturbing -- they're insulting.
Papa came here during the 1940s on a work visa, eventually married, had two children and got his permanent visa. He became a U.S. citizen 14 years later.
He worked very hard to understand the English language -- to speak and write it -- and to learn this country's history so he could pass his test. He was so adamant about being an American he allowed only English to be spoken in his home. So my sister and I never learned Spanish, something I've come to regret.
Papa's English was so good he was put in charge of a lay-up crew at a mill here in Medford that manufactured plywood. He later be came a successful restaurant owner in Texas, which he ran until his retirement about 15 years ago.
...
I'm all for the United States being a culture of immigrants -- because we all are. But with the open borders we have I resent that illegal immigrants aren't coming to this country with the proper paperwork and striving to become U.S. citizens.
To me, they don't seem to care about our country -- they're just interested in economic gain. I know how hard my father worked to be an American. If the illegal immigrants really cared, they'd take the time and make the effort to come here legally. They'd want to be part of our culture and society.
Instead they're being disrespectful to legal immigrants -- and to this nation.
Deport and keep them out BY ANY MEANS necessary .
This is how it should be handled..
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...05-10-08-01-37
Thank God there is SOMEONE in the government that's doing something about these CRIMINALS....
Unfortunately, Im betting that's what we'll get. :no:Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit
i said if they speak english let um stay, in reality my ideas a little more exact, if they've been here 10+ years let um stay, if they know english but have also assimilated into communities and brought themselves above "wetback worker" status, let um stay. anything else deport and make sure they never come back.
Question: Only the mexicians are considered illegal inmigrants? or only the mexicians ar considered criminals?
I voted, keep em. Of course I'm not citizen of the States, and I'm not mexician, but a couple of years ago I was in the desesperate situation to emigrate, legal or illegal to a country in the 1st world, not because I wish; because I need it. I never did it, but thousands of my countrymen did. Be considered a criminal for try to survive, to forge a future... is just wrong, thats my humble and latin opinion.
The land of oportunities (sp). (If you have the right biotype and speak english)
No, they are just by far the most prevelant illegal immigrants.Quote:
Originally Posted by Favius Argentum
Need, while being understandable, cannot be used as valid justification for illegal activity. I can understand why a hungry person would try to steal a loaf of bread- but that doesnt mean we should legalize it.Quote:
I voted, keep em. Of course I'm not citizen of the States, and I'm not mexician, but a couple of years ago I was in the desesperate situation to emigrate, legal or illegal to a country in the 1st world, not because I wish; because I need it. I never did it, but thousands of my countrymen did. Be considered a criminal for try to survive, to forge a future... is just wrong, thats my humble and latin opinion.
Let them satay if they speak english?
That's a pretty niche group. I mean how many illegal english speaking immigrants do you get from Indonesia and Malasia who can make a good satay?
All persons who are not legally resident (or visiting) are considered illegal immigrants. I am legal, I voted to deport those who aren't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Favius Argentum
No - it's all about not wanting some people. A nation built on immigration is now pulling the ladder up.
It's a running theme in US politics. The Irish, Italians, Jews, etc have all been targets of the anti-immigration theme over the centuries.
(Edited language - Beirut)
Boy I just went blind rolling my eyes on that comment....:dizzy2:Quote:
Originally Posted by Idaho
(Qouted language - Beirut)
Helpful as ever, Idaho. Has nothing to do with depressing wages or bankrupting hospitals. Nope, as usual, those ******* Americans are just being a bunch of racists again. I guess when you hate America, the answers are always these easy. As they say, when you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail...
(Only the stars please - Beirut)
yes, the american indians are now saying 'what goes around comes around"Quote:
Originally Posted by Idaho
and dont forget about the Chinese and japanese, they were pretty heavily discriminated against during the late 1800s and 1900s, for a time they were even banned from immigrating.
(Qouted language - Beirut)
Some of you people truly scare me. They should be deported and put on a list to get citizenship the normal and proper way. If the only two options are killing them or letting them get away, let them get away. These aren't hardcore criminals we are after, most are just seeking a better life.
If you really cared about depressed wages and bankrupt hospitals you go after the real causes of said problems rather than getting all het up about immigrants.Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Corleone
(Qouted language - Beirut)
Ladies and gentlemen, we have an honest-to-goodness mindreader. Not only does Idaho know how to plan global economies and solve all the world's problems, he knows what I 'really' think about things, even more so than I do myself. Wow Idaho, how do you and your ego both fit out the door in the morning?Quote:
Originally Posted by Idaho
(No personal attacks - Beirut)
utter drivelQuote:
Originally Posted by Idaho
immigration to the U.S. is the highest it has been for a long time, despite a lack of European immigrants..
Did you read anything in the original thread?Quote:
Originally Posted by Idaho
:book:
ROFL.Quote:
Originally Posted by Idaho
Ever heard from a second generation American from one of those groups? If you had, (which I highly doubt), you'd hear some of the greatest outrage since their family members actually came here by playing by the rules.
Gentlemen,
WP have gone out and more will follow along with a thread locking if good manners are not adhered to.
Thank you.
So Idaho can post that Americans are racist trying to keep "darkie" out, and I get a warning for calling him on it. LOL, good to see you back "moderating" the backroom again Beirut...
:laugh4:
Learned that one the hard wayQuote:
Originally Posted by Beirut
Idaho, I refer you to Post#4, my own, wherein I link to an article detailing how one second generation immigrant feels about the illegals now demanding rights.
And know that those against illegal immigration are not, no matter what many say, automatically anti-all-immigration racist nativists.
Crazed Rabbit
Does someone not live in reality about the issue concerning illegal immigrantion as it regards the United States?Quote:
Originally Posted by Idaho
Come to the United States and visit the border some time, to include the Mexican side of the border, then maybe you might begin to understand the nature of the debate in the United States. However if you truely believe this statement. There is no reason for futher discourse on the issue.
They have been targets of the anti-immigrantion emotion by the citizens, none of these groups have presented the problem that the southern border not presents. Most of these groups immigrated to the United States under the quota system of the 1800 and early 1900's. In other words most of them followed the rules as it regards immigrantions.Quote:
It's a running theme in US politics. The Irish, Italians, Jews, etc have all been targets of the anti-immigration theme over the centuries.
If you can not tell the difference between the two types of immigrantion and the issues involved - then once again there is no futher reason for discourse.
Now the real problem is that the Federal Government and many state governments refuse to enforce the current laws on immigrantion. One of those laws requires that if an illegal immigrant is discovered that the INS is contacted. Care to guess how many state and city governments actually do this.Quote:
If you really cared about depressed wages and bankrupt hospitals you go after the real causes of said problems rather than getting all het up about immigrants.
Then there is the small business owners who often hire the illegal immigrants because of the fact that its cheaper labor. Many construction (housing) outfits also hire illegal immigrants as workers, and the Federal, state, and city officials who inspect housing sites refuse to follow-up on the current laws alreadly enforced.
So in essence Idaho there are several concurrent and multifactet (SP) issues concerning illegal immigrantion to the United States.
Lets point out several of them.
(1) The United States is seen as the land of opporunity for many.
(2) THe Mexican government is still corrupt and does not re-invest into the infrastructure of their own nation.
(3) The Mexico/United States Border is not adequated manned to enforce the current immigrantion laws and to prevent illegal crossings.
(4) The Mexican government has activitily provided aids to those who wish to attempt to cross parts of the border that are not patrol or adequately checked because its one of the most dangerous areas to attempt a foot crossing. (Can't blame the Mexican government for this, because it shows a concern for safety, but one must understand that it does assist in illegal crossings.)
(5) The United States politicans often pander to different groups concerning immigrantion to the point that laws and agencies contradict each other.
(6) the Current immigrantion laws are not enforced for both the immigrant and the employeers of illegal immigrants
There are several other issues involved - but before one can have a reason to discuss them, one should show that they understand the nature of the problem other then a simple and rather overgeneralization sterotype answer that you have provide.
The rest of the world should show some restraint before criticizing the stereotypical trigger-happy racist Americans. Whereas those loudmouth Americans talk about shooting and deporting illegal immigrants, the rest of the world actually does it.
Australian navy opens fire on refugee boat
If Europe is so much better, why does the death toll of Fortress Europe number in the thousands annually?
And most rich non-western countries barely allow migration in the first place. In 2001, Japan granted permanent resident status to a whopping, hold on tight, twenty-six asylum-seekers. Up from an average close to one person annually in the nineties.
edit:should make sense now.
Hispanics accounted for 49% of the US population growth from 2004-2005, most of this was from hospital births, not from immigration, so the number may actually be higher since all immigrants aren't accounted for. Asian population increase is in second place, with most of this being from legal immigration of adults and children rather than in-country births. No one is complaining about the Asian immigrants, anyoen care to guess why?
See I dont understand why people dont like yall. Illegals come here squat drive down wages and dont assimalate. If you came down here and went to the Texas border all the cities (even the ones like Brownsville and El Paso which have 500,000 in population) are absoulte crap. The cities are horibble and getting worse everyday.Quote:
Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat
Quote:
Originally Posted by master of the puppets
um no. um tey are Illerals. um if they are here Illeagly,um,they should be deported,or in my case,shot if they try to jump um fence um.
um
Because Asian women are hotter and don't smell like refried beans? Maybe I'm off a little...Quote:
Originally Posted by Major Robert Dump
MRD this thread isnt about birth rates in the USA. I would like to see some stizats. An educated mexican or asian is much diffrent from illegals. Many of these illegal mexicans tend to be more "fertile" and have many kids whom grow up in poverty aernt tuaght proper english or given tools to sucseed thereby just starting the process all over agian
great idea, lets build a wall across the border with machine gun nests every 100 yards.Quote:
Originally Posted by BHCWarman88
My eyes are bleeding.Quote:
Originally Posted by BHCWarman88
Additionally you can't just shoot them. Try to stop them, yes. Deport those we catch, yes. Shoot them, no.
One of the big problems we face is security. Only the good Lord has kept somebody from Al Queida (awful spelling, my apologies) from crossing the border and doing something nasty.
Unless their just waiting.
:laugh4: :2thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Strike For The South
:laugh4: What is this car crash all about?Quote:
Originally Posted by BHCWarman88
It says that he should be shot if he tries to jump a fence.
Our law definitions can be a little diferent but there is a cultural sea between an illegal action and a criminal one, don't you think?Quote:
Originally Posted by Xiahou
Still, if the assertion of "all illegal inmigrants are criminals" could be true, sometimes is better be considered a criminal in other country than being killed in your own land.
Only in legalese.Quote:
Originally Posted by Favius Argentum
In general English a they are the same thing.
Criminalizing illegal immigrants would be a foolish mistake. I'm all for tighter border security and deporting illegal aliens when found. But at the end of the day, take away the demand for their labor and the problem will solve itself. If you want to punish somebody, make it prohibitively punitive to even consider hiring them, like losing your license to practice busines, etc. Criminalizing the immigrants themselves turns a somewhat peaceful law-breaker into a somewhat violent one. If he thinks he's going to be dropped into an American prison with Bubba as a new wife, he's going to be much, much more likely to put up a fight. Not to mention, what do we do with the not so uncommon case where whole families cross? Throw the kids in Juvy?
No, we to establish fines the legal equivalent of a colonostomy for anybody that's caught hiring them, knowingly or unknowingly. The problem will solve itself from there on out.
Don C:
Your wisdom is once again displayed.
Market forces dictate that if there exists a market for X, someone will find a way to supply it.
In the CCCP, efficient service was often unavailable (like plumbing repair for your "free" apartment) -- unless you dealt with the black market in which case you got the stuff pronto (though at a premium).
If employers in the USA are less willing to hire illegals, fewer of them will make the trip.
If the USA would curb its apetite for illegal drugs, crime would plummet.
I think Seamus and I should form a mutal-appreciation-society. Absolutely spot on with the drug question Seamus.
I don't believe we have to do only one thing or another. I definitely would support that, even making the ceos of corporations who knowingly hire illegals subject to jail time as well as those fines.Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Corleone
But I also want to see if not the guard at the border a massive increase in funding and personel of the BP and a program that requires all current illegals who have been here 5 years or longer to learn english, pay a fine, and reapply for citizenship or be deported and subsiquently jailed all future times they are found in the country after their initial deportation.
I’m English so correct me if I’m wrong, isn’t it the illegal immigrants that take the crap poorly paid jobs that are going.
Personally I would stop worrying about immigrants and try and do something about the gun toting maniacs in the country.
Or you could try to secure the Mexican border and have good practice for Iraqi insurgents.
That is a fallacious argument.
In a supply & demand economy, any job's salary will rise to an optimal price target where the supply and demand curves intersect. Importing cheap labor artificially decreases wages and forces a lower standard of living for everyone. Example:
I am a 22 year old with no skills. I want to work in construction. But, because I live here and have to pay taxes, pay my rent, pay for my own health care, etc, I need to make $15/hour. Now, the construction company I work for doesn't want to pay me that much. They offer me $13. I hold out. They then hire somebody who's willing to work for $11. How? Because he:
-pays no taxes
-uses the health care system knowing that there's no credit report on him to trash
-Buys many of his larger ticket items in Mexico, then has them sent here.
Most importantly, he sends the proceeds of his paycheck home to Mexico. So, if the company had hired me, the money would have been spent by me on taxes and other American industries. Instead, no taxes are paid, government provided services instead of private ones are used, and the currency itself is transmitted out of our economy to Mexico, a net reduction in the country's GDP.
get some skills and you wont have to worry about it
Just fight a boss and level up. :idea2:Quote:
get some skills and you wont have to worry about it
And that is just so ridiculously naive, I had to chuckle. The issue goes beyond the individual, as Don pointed out, and it affects the whole US economy.
You are only address one part of the issue. Any conservation around just employment of illegals misses the major issues concerning the crisis.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZombieFriedNuts
Most are not worried about immigrants and immigrantion when it follows the proscribed law. Its the illegal immigrantion and the non-enforcement of the current law by the authorities which has made it the crisis that it is.Quote:
Personally I would stop worrying about immigrants and try and do something about the gun toting maniacs in the country.
And this arguement is not about "gun toting" maniacs - or maybe it is, try looking at the crime statistics of some of the border cities. You will get a major dose of reality if you attempt that approach versus the fallacious arguement you have taken here.
:no:Quote:
Or you could try to secure the Mexican border and have good practice for Iraqi insurgents.
What skill can you possess that would be immune to this wage deflation scheme?Quote:
Originally Posted by bettkicker19
Chemical, civil electrical engineering? Nope, China and India has guys with masters degrees that will work for 20% what the going rate is.
Banking? Nope. All moving to China, Singapore and Taiwan.
Business? What makes a stockbroker or an analyst in New York City any better than the ones in Shanghai or Singapore? Every year more and more of financial services moves overseas.
Insurance? Ditto.
Medicine? Nope. India, Middle East.
Law? Believe it or not, even here, there are people with training in law that perform a lot of the research for law firms overseas, but of all professions, this is the one that's probably the most impervious.
At the end of the day, there's nothing that can't be outsourced, and in fact, already IS being outsourced. The illegal immigrant question is just a variation of this, bringing the outsourcing to you.
Something tells me you're not a Carnegie or a Rockefeller or a Kennedy, so you probably can't rely on your family's inherent wealth. Truthfully, neither can I.
It's a viscious cycle, that taken to it's natural conclusion, the way it's already heading mind you, has vast quantities of Americans unemployed.
Funny, I think pretty soon, the border problem will be in the other direction. Now that small amounts of drugs are legal, many people will want to move there, for at least the summer!:laugh4:
Join the army, solid food, pay, and ya get to see the world.Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Corleone
Zombie: Along the Mexican border, the "gun toting maniacs" I'm worried about are corrupt Mexican soldiers escorting drug dealers into the US.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZombieFriedNuts
As for immigration, the pace has been so rapid of late that the country is having trouble assimilating them. Twenty percent of all Americans are, or are the descendents of, immigrants who have arrived since 1960. Historically, the children of immigrants achieved higher levels of education and income than their parents. For Hispanics, this trend has weakened significantly.
I would prefer lower levels of immigration until these problems are alleviated, but I would be satisfied if we would simply make an honest effort to prevent illegal immigration. I'm still stunned that the governor of the State of California had to veto a bill a few years ago which would have allowed illegal immigrants to get a driver's license.
Its time to take out the trash. Deport them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strike For The South
I'm not gonna bother witha link because its from the 2004-5 Census stats released to the public yesterday, easy enough to find.
The reason I point out the birthrates is soley to emphasize that we are importing vast amounts of poverty by not enforcing immigration law. The Asian population increase is due to legal, documented IMMIGRATION, not someone hopping a fence and then popping out 4 kids so the whole family can become citizens. I do realize that latinos have a tendency for large families with lots of babies, but TBH it only emphasizes the importing povert point more.
Not that this matters tho the situation at hand, but I have an estranged stepfather who is a German immigrant who never declared citizenship the entire 25 years he's been in the US. 6 months shy of age 65 he declared citizenship, and now he receives social security despite never paying into social security. Anyone else see a problem with this?
"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American ... There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag ... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language ... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907
Then there is this absoulte gem
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:http://www.americanpatrol.com/
The hammer will fall one day. When this problem comes to a head
They need to be deported as they are illegal. There's not "a bit" illegal, or "some illegal".
That there needs to be a complete reworking of work permits is a completely seperate matter.
For a country that annexed about 1/3 of what was Mexico to complain about Spanish being spoken or hespanics is very amusing.
~:smoking:
About the American annexation, the war that caused it was started by Mexico; those parts annexed had only been part of an independent Mexico for a couple of decades;Quote:
Originally Posted by rory_20_uk
the peace treaty renounces any rights that Mexico may feel they have to reclaim that land.
And part of the reason why that land and not the whole of Mexico was taken...probably had something to do with the large American population in that area (i.e. non hispanics Americans, to clarify). The land was also sparsely inhabited for the most part, so not many of anyone Englsih, Spanish or "Injun" speaking..
I have lived in San Diego, in the heart of the illegal immigrant flow from Mexico, all my life. I am far from ignorant of the situation. They are a major part of what keeps this city moving. Why? Because it creates a near-slave economy. Lower wages paid to illegal immigrants means greater profits for our tourist industry.Quote:
Originally Posted by Redleg
Anyway, I agree with Idaho's main point, if not maybe the degree. The US laws on immigration have been quite liberal, compared to other large immigrant nations like Australia. I have to admit that. I also say, though, that Idaho is right in that race is a key issue here.
He is also right about the resistence people have had towards immigrants all along. Those same people who were the targets of early anti-immigrant attacks became the attackers later.
I think fighting illegal immigration causes more problems and is more expensive than facing reality and accepting it.
The language requirement is a joke. What level of English must these people have? How will you test all of them? What if their reading skills are high, but their conversational skills low, or vice-versa? Shall we keep out the deaf, who can't speak English? How can Asians and Africans compete with Europeans and Latin Americans, who natively speak languages closer to English?
We need to toughen up!
Repeal the silly laws that say police can't ask some one if they have a green card.
Round up all the illegals waiting outside at the hard ware store trying to get a job.
Raid fields where migrant workers are so we can get more of them.
Offer rewards for turing illegals in.
Refuse service for them at hospitals unless it is life threatening.
Increase border patrol.
Give minute men and ranch rescue the authority to detain illegals.
Shut down businesses that hire them and put the owner in jail for a year. And fine them 10,000 dollars.
And I'd say:
Decrease time to get a work permit.
Facilitate migrant workers geting into and out of the country.
Educate brain dead redneck hicks that stopping people doing the work that Americans refuse to do isn't a good idea.
~:smoking:
That's so true, I can't get over the amount of white Mexicans I've seen doing those jobs lately, I've seen a few black ones too.Quote:
Originally Posted by rory_20_uk
Strange considering Mexico is about 85%+ mixed race Indian/European.
Oh wait, maybe it was Americans doing those jobs that they allegedly won't do anymore(construction, landscaping, the usual suspects).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tachikaze
If you talk with legal Mexican immigrants like I have - you will discover they also have some problems with the illegal immigrantion. Or the Legal immigrants from Africa. Or the legal immigrants from Panama. Just pick a country of non-white skinned immigrants and ask them....
So the darkie comment is uncalled for - and shows the own racist views of not only Idaho but it seems yourself.
Doesn't the darkie comment deserve a WP? Also, the Mexicans should be just natives, with limited European influence in their genes.
Anyway, if you have no illegals and everyone having higher pay, it just means that more people will be content to work for lower jobs. Why? Because there's no fear of not getting a job, so less of an incentive to get some kind of guarantee that you will not be affected by the illegal problem. Also, it means that the already very expensive american goods will get even more expensive, so that less people will buy them overseas, and also meaning less profit for America. It also means everything at America will be more expensive as well, and leading to, as Tachikaze pointed out, less tourists and again less profits. So it's not as if it doesn't have its advantages. Anyway, if you have an illegal who comes in, turns out to be a genius and benefits America greatly, which is perfectly possible, it would be another good thing.
America should be pleased with the extra revenue they bring.
It did, I got the points... :no:Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiberius
I stand ready to be corrected, but the "darkie" comment was a (nasty) tongue in cheek shot at US immigration policy, not at the United States per say.
You're allowed to say, for example, that the US has stupid immigration laws, but not that Americans are stupid. I think that is the case here. A country's policy was attacked, not the country.
If anyone wishes to discuss this, please PM myself or another mod or take it up in the Watchtower. Here, however, it is done.
Just as long as you allow those who don't use the term to point out the racist nature of the term and those that desire to use it, regardless of wether it is direct at a government or an individual. Especially in the matter that Idaho used the term and the matter in which it was followed up by Tach. The issue is not about the skin color of the individual but the immigrantion status of those individuals. Illegal is illegal regardless of the skin color.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beirut
Darkie is a racist term no matter where it is direct at. You as a moderator don't like the term retard - it exactly the same type of comment.
Most Americans support legal immigration, regardless of the race of the new American-to-be. Legal immigration is a surprisingly slow and somewhat frustrating process. Whatever reasonable steps can be made to improve this should be considered.
Most Americans deplore the entry of illegal aliens into our country and are especially chagrined by the consumption of government resources -- our taxes -- by those who do not contribute to the system. Illegals from Poland or Ireland are no less in the wrong, and most Americans aren't any happier about this than they are with illegals from Mexico (though these other groups do seem to be slipping under the radar more -- which may point to some unintentional yet institutionalized racism).
Most Americans are not offended by those who are seeking citizenship and get fed up with waiting -- they are in the wrong and should not be allowed to circumvent the system, but it is hard to blame someone for seeking the honor of citizenship that you hold. Far too many of those crossing our Southern border do not seek citizenship. They seek money to send home to help their families. They do not care about becoming citizens, only about building their own nest egg with which to return home. On a personal level this is quite understandable, but it is interesting to note that Mexican law is quite specific -- and fairly consistent in applying -- laws that would and do deny Americans the right to "return the favor."
The only possible "legitimate" response is to deport them (though I freely admit the impracticability of such a response).
First:
Close the Border, federalizing the Guards as necessary to support Border Patrol efforts. Legal trade and crossings are no problem, but the rest must cease.
Second:
Allow police to aggressively respond to criminal elements among these illegal aliens, deporting them immediately for non-violent crimes and immediately after completion of sentence for violent offenders.
Third:
Improve the Guest Worker and Legitimate Immigration process. Those who seek citizenship -- both its privileges AND its responsibilities -- should be afforded the option as conveniently as practicable. Those who seek work, should get it at a competitive wage, pay the applicable taxes, and be free to come and go without fear.
Fourth:
Establish one national language and require all federal government business to be conducted in that language. Assimilation is aided by such a standard. While I'd prefer English, I'd settle for Spanish or Urdu -- but all should be held to the same requirement.
If it was 12 million "cracker-ass" Europeans here illegally I would feel the same. But its always easier to call someone a racist than give a thought out defense for criminals like the 12 million illegals that are presently illegally within the United States. In Beirut's defense we all have our biases and I or anyone else should not expect him to make an attempt to be fair handed when it comes to discussions, it just an unfortunate circumstance that he along with other mods have the discretion to hold those of opposing views more accountable than those of similar views. But let's stay on topic about immigration and not on the lack of unbias moderation. :2thumbsup:
Are we talking about past or present laws?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tachikaze
In the past the travesty of the white australia laws it was a very nasty way of deciding who can immigrate here. However those laws are over a generation old... in an era akin to the USA's civil rights movement.
Nowadays 23.6% of the Australian population is legal immigrants... while the USA according to NationMaster has a foreign born population of 10.4%... so wouldn't that make US laws far less liberal then perceived? :laugh4:
How does thinking immigration policies are racist make me a racist?Quote:
Originally Posted by Redleg
Between San Diego and Los Angeles, there is an immigration checkpoint. The purpose of this facility is to prevent illegal immigrants from continuing north out of bordertown San Diego to the rest of the Western US.
The checkpoint spreads across the northbound lanes of Interstate 5 (and Interstate 15 a little inland). There, immigration officers stand at the gates and stare into the windshields of all of the cars and trucks going north.
What are they looking for?
I would say they can determine up to four things: gender, possibly age, whether someone is wearing sunglasses, and race. These are the possible criteria for stopping that car on suspicion that someone "illegal" is in it.
Now, of those criteria, I doubt they use gender, age, or apparel, for reasons that are all too obvious. That leaves race.
You can answer that question yourself. But here is a hint. Illegal immigration is illegal immigration regardless of how one wishes to view it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tachikaze
THe current immigrantion laws should be enforced - since they are not enforce the lack of enforcment is indeed a racist viewpoint - and not the one that you think it is.
You advocate the non-enforcement of the law based solely upon that individuals skin color.
It is similiar on Interstate 35 coming out of Brownsville, Laredo, El Paso, and about a dozen other sites in Texas.Quote:
Between San Diego and Los Angeles, there is an immigration checkpoint. The purpose of this facility is to prevent illegal immigrants from continuing north out of bordertown San Diego to the rest of the Western US.
The checkpoint spreads across the northbound lanes of Interstate 5 (and Interstate 15 a little inland). There, immigration officers stand at the gates and stare into the windshields of all of the cars and trucks going north.
Multiple things - ever notice the dogs?Quote:
What are they looking for?
They are looking at documentation, among other things. Legal immigrants have the necessary visa's....Quote:
I would say they can determine up to four things: gender, possibly age, whether someone is wearing sunglasses, and race. These are the possible criteria for stopping that car on suspicion that someone "illegal" is in it.
Now, of those criteria, I doubt they use gender, age, or apparel, for reasons that are all too obvious. That leaves race.
I have crossed the border in the last 5 years. Guess what they asked me for on the way back across? And my skin is white....
(Personal attacks edited - Beirut)
Be careful , certain Mods are taking points for calling a spade a spade, especially if your political leanings aren't in line with theirs. Of course this only applies to conservatives, all the liberals and leftits out there are still free to call conservatives racists, "commies", and whatever they want without concequence. Same old same old in the Backroom you know. Never thought I'd say this but I wish Soly would come back soon. Atleast he would just ask you to edit your post, not totally #### you like the ********************* does with the points. Oh, did I do another personal attack? Ooopsie, too bad I can't edit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Redleg
(Yep, too bad indeed. Personal attacks edited - Beirut)
PROUD INFIDEL!!!
Well I will gladly take a warning point for answering Tachikaze question.Quote:
Originally Posted by Devastatin Dave
Anyone who advocates non-enforcement of a law that is not based upon race because of an individual's skin color is indeed a racist.
That and they don't know what the current law states, only what they believe it states
http://www.uscis.gov/graphics/index.htm
Oh one would be surprised to discover what nation gets the most worker visa's and immigration slots into the United States.
(Edit: Then add into the equation of the failure of that nation in re-investing monies into its infrastructure versus lining the pockets of its politians - then you begin to get the scope of the issue.)
To bad those that think that the current immigrantion policies are about "race" don't really know what they are talking about.
I don't think expecting residents to learn English is unreasonable, as it helps them and the government providing for them.
It's rather amusing that people who are English/Spanish bilingual have a huge advantage in the job market over people who arent bilingual or are, for example, English/French bilingual. "Bilingual preferred" is a common thing in job adverts, and we al know it realy means Spanish bilingual. High Schools and colleges should stop teaching the other languages to fulfill the foreign language requirement that most scholols have, since it does virtually no good to learn anything other than Spanish in the US market.
You're not even trying to understand my posts. I'm sure English is your first language, but none of this is related to anything I actually wrote. I would explain them to you, but you don't seem to be interested in my real points. So, why do you take the time to write anything?Quote:
Originally Posted by Redleg
Oh you have a real point, it seems you lost it when you accused the current immigrantion policy as being racist.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tachikaze
Care to guess which nation has the highest number of visas, and has the highest quota of all nations as it relates to immigrants that are allowed into the United States each year legally?
If you know the answer to that question - you will figure out just how wrong your statement was.
(edit: to remover the word racist. The statement was wrong and contains a racist based word however)
PS: anyone that advocates the non-enforcement of the current immigrantion laws based upon the individuals skin color is indeed a racist.. Your using race as a discriminator to the enforcement of the law.
:idea2: MEXICO MEXICO MEXICO MEXICO MEXICO MEXICO MEXICO MEXICO:idea2:Quote:
Originally Posted by Redleg