EB May Preview :: Diadochoi

Greetings Europa Barbarorum fans

We are still working on bringing EB to v1.5. And we can announce that we have managed to make a build for 1.5 now. However, by porting over we have encountered several bugs and new CTDs, which we are trying to fix. So keep your fingers crossed and pray to Zeus-Ahura Mazda (or another god of your liking) for us to work them out fast and without too much difficulty.

The next update to EB will not just be a port to v1.5 and containing a few fixes and edits to the textfiles. There will be two new factions in, all the 1.5 goodness in addition and a massive amount of new units. We can safely say we are all excited about 0.8.

And to whet your appetites, here are some Successor units showcased for your pleasure, as well as some rework on existing ones.

As usual, there are people to thanks for the work they have put into these units. Thanks to Agart, Alin, Panda Centurion, shogo, Skeletor & Spartan Warrior for modelling these units, and shogo, skeletor, Spartan Warrior, spirit_of_rob & webbird for skinning these.
And lastly, a big thanks to Sarcasm for helping out with this preview.

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Thrakioi Peltastai
https://img100.imageshack.us/img100/...onia6qr.th.jpghttps://img80.imageshack.us/img80/60...etai0ls.th.jpg
Rebel - Makedonian :::: Mercenary - Getai
The Thracian Peltast was the originator and best of the Peltasts. They are armored in good quality linen and carry the thureos style shield. They are Hellenized, but still have their trademark wild beards that also serve to remind their enemies of their country of origin. They are expert javelineers, able to pepper their targets with javelins before charging in with their fearsome Thracian swords, the Rhomphaia. They are well trained and among the fiercest and most feared warriors in the entire world, a fact which they know all too well. Since they are aware of this fact, they are often impetuous, but an able general can keep them at bay. Thracian Peltasts can be used with equal precision as skirmishers or medium shock infantry. They are even deadly against armored horsemen, due to their wicked armor piercing blades.

Historically, Thracian Peltasts have been around since the late Bronze Age, and have been plying their deadly trade against Greeks for as long as any Thracian or Greek can remember. Their method of warfare is so effective it was copied by Greeks and Macedonians and even mimicked by tribes as distant as the Illyrians. The number of battles and by whom they were used is uncountable. Suffice to say Thracian peltasts have been used in every major conflict between Greek states.

Thrakioi Prodromoi
http://www.krusader.be/eb/thrak-prodromoi-tn.jpg
In the Thraikian and Makedonian armies, these medium cavalry are a common sight. The reason for this is that they are excellent medium cavalry, capable of skirmishing, charging, and fighting fairly well in melee. They are armored with good quality linen, bronze helms, and the distinctive Thraikian shields that mark their country of origin. They are an extremely versatile cavalry force that can be given the moniker ‘jack of all trades and master of none’. They are great all-round cavalry, but will not fare well against heavier cavalry or spear or pike armed infantry. They are drawn from the lower Thraikian nobility and many have settled in Makedonia, lured by land grants and higher pay.

Historically, Thraikian light cavalry was some of the best in the ancient world. They proved their worth in battle after battle, whether in Makedonian or Hellene service, or the service of their own kings. Their tactical versatility made them a light cavalry equivalent to the Romaioi legions, well able to perform any battle role and to adapt quickly to any circumstance.

Babylonian Shipri Tukul Infantry
http://www.krusader.be/eb/babylonian...nfantry-tn.jpg
These heavy infantrymen use the old pointed Assyrian helmet and have iron scale corselets. Their weapons are the sword and spear. Their defence is the old fashioned Aspis shield faced with bronze. Their role on the battlefield is that of well drilled loose order infantry organized along the lines of Hellenistic Thureophoroi

Historically, the Hellenistic monarchies established after Alexander the Great’s conquest used the military settlement system widely, probably taking it over from the Persians. Native heavy infantry such as this was not well regarded by the Hellenic conquerors of Asian territories nor particularly trusted. Necessity, however, required troops to govern the kingdom and these troops were readily available and these considerations applied as well to the Parthian that would supplant the Seleucid Empire as masters of the lands where these heavy infantrymen were recruited. They came from the Aramean population of Babylonia, Syria and the Jews of Mesopotamia. While not playing the same significant role that Jews played in the Ptolemaic military system these men were present in significant numbers.

Katakphraktoi Indikon Elephantoi
http://www.krusader.be/eb/sel-elephant-tn.jpghttp://www.krusader.be/eb/bak_elephant-tn.jpg
Arche Seleukeia - - - - - - - Baktria
Imported from the regions around the old Eastern Persikos provinces, Indikon Elephantoi are an exceptionally valuable resource in combat, very popular among Alexandros' Diadochi. Towering over most other creatures, they can easily scare men and horses alike, with both with their size and smell, though elaborate bells and trappings often add to their intimidation. Such corps are directed by their own mahouts riding behind their heads, often a native of their own country who has spent at least two years training his beast from capture. The mahout is armored to better protect against the obvious assault that generally comes against him, launched to bypass the thick natural armor of his mount. A thorakia (tower) or howdah is also attached to the elephantos' back, which serves as a missile platform for a few archers. The elephantos itself is also armored, protecting its head and sides and thus giving the elephants a much better chance at resisting enemy missile fire.

Elephantoi are best used as cavalry screens for your army, where their presence can scare away enemy cavalry. They can also be used to ram through an enemy battle line, though they are less useful when faced with loose order or phalanx infantry. Pyrrhos of Epiros even innovated a tactic of flank screens when he fought the Romans at Heraklea. Beyond their obvious use against enemy infantry or cavalry, they can also be used in siege combat; battering down gates, though they're highly vulnerable to better prepared installations. Their greatest vulnerability is against skirmishers, slingers and archers, who can pepper them with missiles - eventually toppling them by virtue of their cumulative impact. To counter the effect of enemy skirmishers, it is often wise to array your own in opposition, or to maintain constant attacks upon each individual group. These "towered" elephantoi though are much less vulnerable then their unarmored corps, well protected as they are by their own armor and skirmisher mounts of their own.

Historically, the use of elephantoi in war was largely contained to India, but after the battle of Hydaspes that changed. Though Alexandros never cared over much for the animals, his successors were very much in favor of their use, organizing their own elephantoi into a distinct corps under their own 'elephantarchos.' These "Indikon Elephantoi" (Indian Elephants) were imported for war in the West from the old Persikos provinces around Baktria, Gandhara, Sattagydia, and Sind - though most originally hailed from the regions directly around the river the natives call the "Sindhu. In the first wars of succession, each Diadochi had a contingent of Indian elephants and Indian mahouts, who stayed on where they taught the Hellenes how to capture and train elephants for war. Such forces had been wreaking havoc on battle lines for centuries within the armies of India Rajas, and the Diadochi used them on an equal scale (the first substantial group supposedly numbered 500 elephantoi total, granted to Seleukus I Nikator by his new ally Chandragupta Maurya, called "Sandrocottus" in Greek), attaching substantial political power to their possession - some officers gained temporary power and success simply by this virtue (most notably, the Eastern Satrap Eumenes). Among the Baktrians, they were particularly commonplace, owing to their comparatively easy access to them; numbering regularly in the hundreds, faced as they were by traditionally vast elephantos components in Indian armies.

However, even with many different anti-elephant weapons being used and with the huge expenses, time and effort that had to be put into maintaining a elephant herd, the elephant was still employed so it shows that it was still valued and served its purpose. The Seleukids even developed specific ‘elephant guards’ units, whose task was to solely defend these beasts. The elephant riders or the mahouts, were often called Indoi, as in the beginning they were all Indians and the majority of mahouts continued to be Indians, yet they did teach their skills to ‘westerners’ as well, as the Ptolemaioi did not have access to India yet they kept a sizeable elephant corps. The mahouts often wore protective armor as they were an obvious target for enemy missiles, even though ancient artists often portray them unarmored, which is highly likely to have been how they dressed for parades.

Makedones Hysteroi Pezhetairoi
http://www.krusader.be/eb/mak-latepike-tn.jpg
Early in the 2nd Century, after having fought the Romans in a few ruinous wars, the Macedonian army modified it’s pike phalanx accordingly. Gone was the single greave and fully bronze shield, not to mention the linothorax. They were replaced with mail armor and a wooden composite (plywood) shield of similar strength but far less weight. They were retrained to a great degree, and many Thracians and Illyrians who settled in Macedon were added to the rolls. These men have a greater degree of training and equipment compared to their predecessors, and are better able to stand up to the mobile and disciplined troops of Rome or the Greeks to their south.

Historically, the late pikemen were a development of the Macedonian Wars, in which Macedon was fighting a hopelessly outnumbered battle against the juggernaut of the Roman republic. They augmented their numbers by adding non-Macedonians to the rolls and trained those that they had far better, using new methods. The result was better than the earlier pikemen, but still not enough to defeat the Roman armies at the state of readiness they were at after the second Punic War. If Rome could defeat Carthage, which once had a massive amount of capital and excellent manpower to draw upon, then she could certainly defeat little Macedon, whose population had been depleted to a large extent due to eastern migration of many citizens.

Argyraspidai
https://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i...silvers512.jpghttps://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i...h_104c2f2e.jpg
Makedonia - - - - - - - - Arche Seleukeia
The veteran Pezhetairoi often became the Argyraspidai, the Silver Shields. These are tough men often better armed than their fellow phalanx soldiers, who usually are used to hold the center of a Makedonian or Seleukid battle line. They are older and more disciplined than other phalangitai and are thus able to hold their own against good odds. They are armed and armoured much the same as regular Pezhetairoi, but with slightly better equipment and weapons, including scale reinforcement on their Linothorax. They should be employed in much the same manner, except they can be relied on to hold their ground and should accordingly be saved for where the battle is going to be the heaviest.

Historically, the Silver Shields were an elite force within the armies of Alexandros, made up of the veterans often in their mid-40s and upwards. After the death of Alexandros, the term ‘argyraspidai’ came to describe the veterans among the Pezhetairoi, the soldiers aged 45-60. How this happened is anyone’s guess, but it is what came to pass. In Makedonia the term was used to describe the veteran pezhetairoi who more often than not weren’t a distinct corps, while in Arche Seleukeia they remained a distinct unit, as carrying a silver shield was a mark of elite. The Makedonian Argyraspidai eventually “died out” and was replaced by the reformed Pezhetairoi, while the Seleukid Argyraspidai evolved into an assault infantry corps, the Thorakitai Argyraspidai. As with most elite units, they were best utilized as troops that take the brunt of an assault.

And as an added bonus, reworked skins of elite Successor cavalry

Hellenikoi Kataphraktaroi
http://www.krusader.be/eb/sel-kataph-tn.jpghttp://www.krusader.be/eb/bak-kataph-tn.jpg
Arche Seleukeia - - - - - - - Baktria

Hetairoi
http://www.krusader.be/eb/hetairoi-sel-tn.jpghttp://www.krusader.be/eb/hetairoi-pto-tn.jpghttp://www.krusader.be/eb/hetairoi-mak-tn.jpg
Arche Seleukeia - - - - - - Ptolemaioi - - - - - - - - Makedonia

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We hope you have enjoyed this preview of some of the Successor units.
Please note that unless stated otherwise, ALL pictures, names, and descriptions shown in our previews are works in progress. We continue to improve on all parts of EB, and we will continue to do so long after our initial release.
Since some areas where these news items are posted cannot handle wide images, we appreciate your restraint from quoting full-size images.
As always, if you have questions or comments, the best place to post them is here, where the EB team is most active:

Europa Barbarorum ORG forum

Europa Barbarorum TWC forum

We give special thanks to Imageshack that provides us with a simple, foolproof, and free way to show you all these pictures each week.

Have a great day!


Sincerely,

The Europa Barbarorum team.

:jawdrop: :jawdrop: :jawdrop: SWEET!! :2thumbsup:

Nice preview EB...Hope u relice the 0.8 beta soon.lol:2thumbsup:

:jawdrop:!!AWESOME!!!:jawdrop:






Can tell something about the new factions?

Fantastic! :2thumbsup:

YES
thats what Im talking about

Great work!

How will Makedonian Hysteroi Pezhetairoi recruitment work?

Will it be similar to the Seleukid Kataphraktaroi only you have to be beaten by the Romani a few times?

Seems like it'll be Thrakioi (Thrace) and hopefully a faction in the arabian peninsula, though possibly one around parthia. :help: At least confirm one? Please?

Once again stunning work. I am very glad that even more emphasis was placed on the Diadochi, the early Hellenistic age is my favorite period in history. Although EB has always been more of a Hellenistic mod (lets face it, the starting time period forces it to be), this is just even more dandy. :2thumbsup:

Now if only someone would start an unofficial mod that covers the early Hellenistic age where Antigonos I fights to reunite the empire of Alexandros under him, while Ptolemaios I, Seleukos I, and the sly Lysimachos resist to form their own kingdoms, and various other intrigues which are not mentioned...

happyness...:happy:

Awesome work!

In the spirit of the Diadochoi, here's a new loading screen while we're at it too (a W.I.P., mind you):

https://img132.imageshack.us/img132/...en156lj.th.jpg

You and your coins, Teleklos.

The previews look great, by the way. I am very anxious for the next release.

Hey! :grin: I can't make UI cards and write up unit descriptions (not my bag), but I can do things like this. :grin: There are more where that came from for the next build too.

nice coins!!:2thumbsup:
some other factions will have coins with this basileus list style too???

Pretty much. Where we have them, in our game's time frame. And if they depict the rulers (often they just show the same prior ruler over and over to lend legitimacy to their reign).

great job again!:2thumbsup:

Cool preview! :2thumbsup: :2thumbsup:

TeleCoins Archelaou. :grin:

You and your coins. Where's QWERTY? ~D
Anyhow, only one smiley says everything: :jawdrop:

Beautiful.

One comment, though: the Thrakioi Prodromoi's decriptions says it carries a shield, yet I do not see it.

Yikes. This was pleasant. I can't wait to get back into EB... i'm fiending for 0.8!

Nice but aren't the Thrakioi Peltastai gonna poke their eyes out with those javelins attached to their bucklers arms when they swing and can you actually swing a 2 handed weapon with all that attached to your left arm?

Those peltasts look awesome. the skin is so much better than the average EB skin.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Djurre

Those peltasts look awesome. the skin is so much better than the average EB skin.

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I think they should lose the javelins and not sure about the rhompia (didn't they use machaira?):
https://img138.imageshack.us/img138/8134/cgrant30yf.jpg


but it isn't my mod

those units look amazing! i can't wait til 0.8 is out

Great stuff!:2thumbsup:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stalin

Nice but aren't the Thrakioi Peltastai gonna poke their eyes out with those javelins attached to their bucklers arms when they swing and can you actually swing a 2 handed weapon with all that attached to your left arm?

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They would probably throw javelins before closing for melee~;). But RTW engine can't reflect this

Man those elephants look good and with any luck they wont have the weird sun hat wearing people in them all the time :elephant: :elephant:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by O'ETAIPOS

They would probably throw javelins before closing for melee~;). But RTW engine can't reflect this

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BUSTED!!! Niiinooo niiinooooo....

:grin:
Yes it can. The BI engine can. Sassanid Immortals anyone? ~D

Actually, forget it just finish the mod. Sometimes less is more"

Quote:

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I think they should lose the javelins and not sure about the rhompia (didn't they use machaira?):

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They used both; the rhomphaia is more distinctive, recognizable, and was a more common component of the whole culture region.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by orwell

Seems like it'll be Thrakioi (Thrace) and hopefully a faction in the arabian peninsula, though possibly one around parthia. :help: At least confirm one? Please?

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I don't know what the new faction will be, but I can promise you that it's not Thrace. They weren't really a coherent kingdom at the start date, sad to say. :no:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stalin

I think they should lose the javelins and not sure about the rhompia (didn't they use machaira?):
https://img138.imageshack.us/img138/8134/cgrant30yf.jpg


but it isn't my mod

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These men that were skinned are minor nobility/wealthy members of Thracian society, and therefore would not use a sica or machaira. The light peltasts would be equipped with a sica.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by edyzmedieval

BUSTED!!! Niiinooo niiinooooo....

:grin:
Yes it can. The BI engine can. Sassanid Immortals anyone? ~D

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I'm pretty sure he meant that the R:TW engine cannot reflect the loss of ammunition on the model. All legionaries throw their pila first as well.

That Thrakian unit i have to say looks wonderful.. The one with the javelins and the rhompaia(sp, of course).

Any developments on the reinforcement bug devs? Has testing for the port shown any changes?

I don't think that many people have tested it yet honestly. A lot of work has been done, but not a lot of testing. We are trying to fix some big issues that 1.5 has introduced (mostly re: buildings), but I can say that I've not had any CTDs yet (no reinforcement ones or post battle ones), and I played a decade as Romani.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Teleklos Archelaou

We are trying to fix some big issues that 1.5 has introduced (mostly re: buildings)

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I don't even wanna know... :cry:

Great preview !!! ~:cheers:

Yet another wonderful preview! :2thumbsup: When the next pack with this is out I think my first campaign is going to be Arche Seleukeia.

I want more units for Ptolemaioi. :book:

Now that you have a 1.5 build, can anyone tell us whether the old 1.2 EB bugs like the reinforcement bug that everyone was trying so hard to find the cause of have been removed by porting, or are they still there?

It's no biggie cus 1.2 EB is pretty stable, but it would be nice if they were solved

There are new bugs. We're trying to get them worked on, but it needs more testing and work. No one has reported the Reinforcement bug yet, but that doesn't mean it's gone.

This is excellent, but I have to ask: will we have to totally uninstall our current version of EB if we are to use this new one?

I'm very excited about FINALLY being able to use BI and EB at the same time.

Keep up the good work, fellows.

You could use EB and BI now if you like. :inquisitive: Just make several copies of RTW on your computer and install the mods to them...

Anyway, when the 1.5 version is released, can you make sure you EB people post a step by step guide to exactly what needs to be done to install it, because some of these 1.5 mods give quickly typed up halfarsed instructions... Then when you try to play you get a CTD because it didn't install correctly...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stalin

I think they should lose the javelins and not sure about the rhompia (didn't they use machaira?):
https://img138.imageshack.us/img138/8134/cgrant30yf.jpg


but it isn't my mod

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Don't confuse 500 B.C. with 270. Thracians used all sorts of weapons, but the most feared seemed to have been the Rhomphaia. By 270, elite thracian mercenaries carried them into battle, along with their missiles, to cut many enemies to ribbons.

As you can see by the type of shield used this is a late pelrast.
Before that the characteristic crecent shaped one was predominant along with the leather cap, something like this (with a pinch of salt)
https://img339.imageshack.us/img339/6537/tpeltas6di.jpg
or this: An early Thracian peltast with characteristic hat, crescent shaped shield and high boots (from a painted Greek cup dated 550 BC)
https://img377.imageshack.us/img377/5610/cgrant18uv.jpg
I really didn't want to get into a pissing contest here it just bugged me that the javelins were gonna stay even after being thrown (on the model)

I think this is hardcoded, because the javelins stay on every model after they've been thrown, in vanilla and in every mod i have encountered.

Excellent preview. Any chance we'll be getting more advanced armies in 272? It just wouldn't seem right to see your first silver shields in 260 or later. Maybe armies start off with a few, but then still have to build up recruitment, so you couldn't retrain them or get more until 260 or later?

But thanks for showing this off, and its great news that there will be builds of the two new factions when 1.5 comes out. Thanks!

The faces! The faces! Please people dont change the faces! Great work on the preview, but just a little think, what it make me love this mod better than others, are also the faces of the warriors, in others mods some good skinned warriors are completely ruined by their dull faces:

this is an evil and smart horsearcher from another mod (i dont say what mod cause i dont want to create a stupid polemic):
https://img231.imageshack.us/img231/...ginegfd7gt.png
well just judge yourself how it look smart and evil...

this is the faces of hetairoi in the 0.74:
https://img117.imageshack.us/img117/...magine17rr.jpg
well this man really look a dirty warrior used to blood...

and this is the new hetairoi in 0.8:
https://img92.imageshack.us/img92/84...iroisel8sj.jpg

well it seems to me that the 0.74 version is far better than the new...
what make the difference to me is the far better expressive faces of EB.
I dont know if the old faces is a vanilla one or not, but i like it very much.
also the pahlava zadhra pahlavans faces are so expressive and kind, that other mods uber skinned and coloured cataphract, seems so manga ridicoulus style

now the new hetaroi faces are too small in that preview to know if they are good as previous, but i hope you maintain that old 0.74 ones, they are the best in my opinion

what do you think?

PS could you post a first plane of the new hetairoi face so i can judge better how is it?

greets

Sweet ~:thumb:
I especially like those new Macedonian pezhetairoi for some reason...

About those Thracian peltasts, would't it be very hard to use a Rhomphaia blade 2 handed with such a large shield strapped to your arm?

:hide:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kralizec

About those Thracian peltasts, would't it be very hard to use a Rhomphaia blade 2 handed with such a large shield strapped to your arm?

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1. The shield isnt really that large.
2. Its placed above the elbow, so it wouldn't really impact slashing movements.
3. They did it, so it must not have worked THAT badly.

That is one mean sword:
https://img471.imageshack.us/img471/...homphia6oc.jpg

however the one handed version also existed

https://img451.imageshack.us/img451/...azanluk9lm.jpg

but I guess that would be the little falx

The EB skins are truly great. The guys have some excellent skinners and modellers.

And don't forget animators. :thumbsup:

A question that occured to me: what will happen with the Makedonian Argyraspidai when they get the Hysteroi-reform? Will they disappear, or become Hysteroi Argyraspidai or will they stay "plain" Argyraspidai?

And what about earlier question regarding the Tracian Prodromoi's shield?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ludens

A question that occured to me: what will happen with the Makedonian Argyraspidai when they get the Hysteroi-reform? Will they disappear, or become Hysteroi Argyraspidai or will they stay "plain" Argyraspidai?

And what about earlier question regarding the Tracian Prodromoi's shield?

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The Makedonian Argyraspidai will disappear. I'm not sure, but I think the regular Pezhetairoi will also disappear, as those Pezhetairoi were only made up by Greek & Makedonian citizens (mark the word citizen, Greeks who had voting rights or landed property), while the Hysteroi Pezhetairoi (or Late Pezhetairoi) were made up of Greeks, Illyrians, Thracians etc.

The Makedonian Argyraspidai is 90% sure to make it into EB, as there was a difference between the Argyraspidai of Makedonia & Arche Seleukeia, where in the latter they were a distinct unit and carrying a silver shield was a mark of being elite. In Makedonia though, being a argyraspidai simply meant you were a soldier in the Pezhetairoi who was aged 45+ basically, although some scant sources seem to mention the Argyraspidai as a royal guard unit.

There are no ingame shots of Thrakioi Prodromoi yet made and that was the best Thrakioi Prodromoi shot I could find. When we get a shot of them with shields, I will post it for your pleasure :2thumbsup:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Krusader

There are no ingame shots of Thrakioi Prodromoi yet made and that was the best Thrakioi Prodromoi shot I could find. When we get a shot of them with shields, I will post it for your pleasure :2thumbsup:

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~:thumb:

If there are going to be any changes made to the faces and Spartan Hoplites introduced, can they be given no moustaches and long hair like they had at least in the classical age? Or whatever they looked like then, of course.

Wow:2thumbsup: :2thumbsup: :2thumbsup: :2thumbsup: :2thumbsup: :2thumbsup:

:dizzy2: :2thumbsup: Cant wait I only have 1.5 and am praying that it comes soon. I REALLY like the war elephants (hey i like war elephants alot) and cant wait to finally play EB! O please come out soon

Are there eventually going to be some Thracian units available to factions other then the Makedonians and Getai? I just noticed that the Thrakian peltasts are available to just those.
As it stands Epeiros (for example) can recruits Keltic and Illyrian units, but no Thracians. I'd love to have acces to some low level Thracian warband to add even more variety to my armies.

Hmmm...Maybe adding the Thrakians as a faction? That would be awesome. :book:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by edyzmedieval

Hmmm...Maybe adding the Thrakians as a faction? That would be awesome. :book:

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You got the Getai.
The Thracians were past their glory days and were too fragmented.