Were the Quana Bodies Staged?

Well decide for yourelves.

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These questions and others are beginning to mount as the discrepancies in Hezbollah’s versions of events start to fall apart:

On the morning of July 30, according to the IDF, the air force came in three waves. In the first, between midnight and one in the morning, there was a strike at or near the building that eventually collapsed. There was a second strike at other targets far from the collapse building several hours later, and a third strike at around 7:30 in the morning. There too the nearest hit was some 460 meters away, according to the IDF. But first reports of a building collapse came only around 8 am.
Thus there was an unexplained 7 to 8 hour gap between the time of the helicopter strike and the building collapse. Brigadier General Amir Eshel, Head of the Air Force Headquarters, in a press briefing, told journalists that "the attack on the structure in the Qana village took place between midnight and one in the morning. The gap between the timing of the collapse of the building and the time of the strike on it is unclear."

Gen. Eshel appeared genuinely mystified by the gap in time. He "I’m saying this very carefully, because at this time I don’t have a clue as to what the explanation could be for this gap," he added.

The army’s only explanation was that somehow there was unexploded Hezbollah ordnance in the building that only detonated much later.
"It could be that inside the building, things that could eventually cause an explosion were being housed, things that we could not blow up in the attack, and maybe remained there, Brigadier General Eshel said.

Eshel reported that as recently as two days ago, military intelligence reported the building area had been used by the terrorists for storage or firing of weapons. It was a bad place to cram dozens of women and children.

There are other mysteries. The roof of the building was intact. Journalist Ben Wedeman of CNN noted that there was a larger crater next to the building, but observed that the building appeared not to have collapsed as a result of the Israeli strike.

Why would the civilians who had supposedly taken shelter in the basement of the building not leave after the post-midnight attack? They just went back to sleep and had the bad luck to wait for the building to collapse in the morning?

What we do know is that sometime after dawn a call went hour to journalists and rescue workers to come to the scene. And come they did.

While Hezbollah and its apologists have been claiming that civilians could not freely flee the scene due to Israeli destruction of bridges and roads, the journalists and rescue teams from nearby Tyre had no problem getting there.

Lebanese rescue teams did not start evacuating the building until the morning and only after the camera crews came. The absence of a real rescue effort was explained by saying that equipment was lacking. There were no scenes of live or injured people being extracted.

There was little blood, CNN’s Wedeman noted: all the victims, he concluded, appeared to have died while as they were sleeping — sleeping, apparently, through thunderous Israeli air attacks. Rescue workers equipped with cameras were removing the bodies from the same opening in the collapsed structure. Journalists were not allowed near the collapsed building.

Rescue workers filmed as they went carried the victims on the stretchers, occasionally flipping up the blankets so that cameras could show the faces and bodies of the dead.

But Israelis steeled to scenes of carnage from Palestinian suicide bombings and Hezbollah rocket attack could not help but notice that these victims did not look like our victims. Their faces were ashen gray. Their limbs appeared to have stiffened, from rigor mortis. Neither were effects that would have resulted from an Israeli attack hours before. These were bodies that looked like they had been dead for days.

Viewers can judge for themselves. But the accumulating evidence suggests another explanation for what happened at Kana. The scenario would be a setup in which the time between the initial Israeli bombing near the building and morning reports of its collapse would have been used to "plant" bodies killed in previous fighting — reports in previous days indicated that nearby Tyre was used as a temporary morgue — place them in the basement, and then engineer a "controlled demolition" to fake another Israeli attack.

The well-documented use by Palestinians of this kind of faked footage — from the alleged shooting of Mohammed Dura in Gaza, scenes from Jenin of "dead" victims falling off gurneys and then climbing back on — have merited the creation of a new film genre called "Palliwood."

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LINK

Funny... I always question sources - when the news says women and children are being targeted by a national army, I have my doubts.

But this seems a bit conspiracy theory-ish, so again, I have my doubts - too good to be true for some parties, nay?

Plus - I have a feeling this isn't going to help the IDF's rep either - those that are opposed to what's going on aren't going to be swayed, rather they will see this as a cynical attempt to sway public emotion. Those that are in favour of IDF actions will feel justified by this. Anyone in the middle, will still pretty much stay in the middle - with a few shifting to both camps, pretty much equally. Nothing will change.

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But Israelis steeled to scenes of carnage from Palestinian suicide bombings and Hezbollah rocket attack could not help but notice that these victims did not look like our victims. Their faces were ashen gray. Their limbs appeared to have stiffened, from rigor mortis. Neither were effects that would have resulted from an Israeli attack hours before. These were bodies that looked like they had been dead for days.

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The body starts to stiffen after 2 to 6 hours. I cannot really seem to find lapse of time between collapse and rescue attempts, but in your quote it is stated that the rescue was started very late, so there seems to be plenty of time for rigor mortis to start affecting the body.
About the faces being ashen gray. When a concrete building collapses it produces a very fine grey dust that will cover everything, which is clearly noticeable on the photos.

From the same site:

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Originally Posted by From an AP report

Israel suspended air attacks on south Lebanon for 48 hours starting early Monday in the face of widespread outrage over an airstrike on a house that killed 56 Lebanese, almost all of them women and children.
[...]
Red Cross officials said 56 were killed and police said 34 children and 12 adult women were among the dead.

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34 children. 12 adult women. Not a single adult male officially listed among them. How strangely asexual these "civilian" families seem to be.

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56-34-12=10 other dead bodies. This could mean 10 adult males, which were not noted by AP as women and children casualities are more dramatic. And that makes the make up of the dead bodies suddenly a whole lot less asexual. Either I am missing a number, or that "Confederate Yankee" likes to push certain numbers forward.


Overall this "proof" got plenty of holes on its own.

Overall this "proof" got plenty of holes on its own.
Yep they is getting desperate , its almost like saying look theres 6 holes , we fired 6 shells but only the 5 unembarrasing holes are ours , the kids were killed by someone else .:dizzy2:

I wonder if the good general who cannot explain the "mystery" understands the effect that a number of 1000lb bombs will have on a building less that 500 meters away that is already badly damaged and has its foundations seriously undermined .
But hey who needs to explain anything when you work on the false assumption that there are no civilians .:no:

Pass the tinfoil hats batman.

Obviously the "gap" between the attack and the report of the building collpase was caused by hezbollah needing to round up and kill 56 people to plant in the building. You might not think that takes 8 hours but bear in mind they had to wait for orders from Ming the Merciless's mothership in orbit round Jupiter.

(BTW just LOVE the way that the word "report" immediately disappears from the story, so it seems as if there was a gap between the bombing and the collapse)

I refer to the Beruit acid test for who is right in the middle east: in any picture involving a kid and a tank, he is on the side of the kid. Likewise F16s.

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...lHat_puton.jpg


:help:

Wars are as much about information as they are about killing. Whitewashing bad news and exaggerating not-so-bad news is considered justified by the side doing it.


I would not put it past Hezbollah to use these sorts of tactics. They aren't exactly goning to make it easy for neutral parties to do autopsies now are they?

I am, however, trying to stay nuetral here. I want more facts verifying the timing of the strike and the collapse, not just some info gleaned from an exclusive interview or canned press conference.

It's also possible they were trapped underneath before or after the
inital strike and suffocated or something, and the collapse had nothing to do with their deaths.

Well decide for yourelves.

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As the Israel Air Force continues to investigate the Sunday air strike, questions have been raised over military accounts of the incident.

It now appears that the military had no information on rockets launched from the site of the building, or the presence there of Hezbollah men at the time.




Advertisement

The Israeli Defense Forces had said after the deadly air-strike that many rockets had been launched from Qana. However, it changed its version on Monday.

The site was included in an IAF plan to strike at several buildings in proximity to a previous launching site. Similar strikes were practiced in the past. But there were no rocket launches from Qana on the day of the strike.

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Furthermore...The army’s only explanation was that somehow there was unexploded Hezbollah ordnance in the building that only detonated much later.

ooooops , they have a new explanation , one of the pieces of ordanace fired in the initial strike at the building failed to explode on impact . So there was unexploded ordanace there , it was live and it was Isreali .

I wouldn't put it past Hezbollah to do this very thing. The Herald Sun is publishing photos of Hezbollah dressed in civilian clothes setting up a rocket staging post in a residential neighborhood, right outside an appartment building. I don't think anybody seriously doubts that Hezbollah is using civilian cover as human shields.

But this specific claim, in light of the events that transpired, it should have more evidence then "maybe ....". If they don't have a clear theory of exactly what happened with some proof, they should just keep it to themselves until they do. Right now, they just look desparate.

Speaking of... did anybody hear anything confirming or denying the report that Hezbollah was launching rockets next door to the UN outpost that got shelled?

You are an idiot sir for quoting a white supremacist site

The Herald Sun is a white supremacist site? You know, I get really, really F-ING tired of this... any site that's right of the Guardian is by definition a white-sumpremacist right-wing rag. The Wall Street Journal? White-supremacist, right-wing Trash. The Manchester Union Leader? White-supremacist, right-wing Trash. Forget all the journalism awards. If it doesn't call for Bush's head on a stick, it's right-wing, white-supremacist trash.

If you wanted to say that you don't think it's of the same quality as say the Guardian, that'd be one thing. But dismissing everything that disagrees with your world view out of hand, just because it disagrees with your world view, is lazy. Show me one place, off the Socialist Worker that is, that can cite evidence that the Herald Sun is a white-supremacist site. Otherwise, keep your baseless accusations to yourself.

Nah, I think he is referring to the website Gawain got his quote from: http://confederateyankee.mu.nu/

The original source of the quotation. Israeli website - obviously biased, therefore we should pay no attention to it. Or should we?

Just because something is biased, doesn't mean there isn't a grain of truth in it. Then again, it could still be false. Either way, it shouldn't be ignored, but used in collusion with other sources.

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Originally Posted by Don Corleone

The Herald Sun is a white supremacist site? You know, I get really, really F-ING tired of this... any site that's right of the Guardian is by definition a white-sumpremacist right-wing rag. The Wall Street Journal? White-supremacist, right-wing Trash. The Manchester Union Leader? White-supremacist, right-wing Trash. Forget all the journalism awards. If it doesn't call for Bush's head on a stick, it's right-wing, white-supremacist trash.

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Don, I think he meant the original site posted by Gawain - confederateyankee.mu whatever.

I didn't read enough of it to note if it was a actually a white supremacist site, but it is sufficiently whacko right-wing to be beyond the pale.

:bow:

No matter how dubious the cited source is (and it certainly is) - personal attacks will not be tolerated :stare:

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Originally Posted by Don Corleone

I wouldn't put it past Hezbollah to do this very thing. The Herald Sun is publishing photos of Hezbollah dressed in civilian clothes setting up a rocket staging post in a residential neighborhood, right outside an appartment building. I don't think anybody seriously doubts that Hezbollah is using civilian cover as human shields.

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I looked at the site you linked, and frankly it shows nothing of the sort. There's a picture of some fat old men and a couple of boys posing on an ancient ack-ack gun (rocket lauchers look quite a lot different and believe me, you don't want to be on top of them when they fire) and another fat old man looking at a bombing raid. The next picture of the three is a cropped version of the first picture.

Hezbollah are trained fighters capable of giving the IDF a 20 day run for their money, not a bunch of wannabees with a tame and incredulous journo in tow.

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Originally Posted by Don Corleone

Speaking of... did anybody hear anything confirming or denying the report that Hezbollah was launching rockets next door to the UN outpost that got shelled?

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So far, all I've heard is that the UN begged the IDF to stop shelling them ten times.

Further to the Qana incident, again, I don't know what stuff the US news channels broadcasts, but there are many highly respected journalists from around the world who disagree with the premise it was staged. But www.confederateyankee.mu.nu is clearly closer to the action than they are. And there were the IDF films of rockets being fired from Qana that the IDF has now accepted were filmed two days before, and can't positively confirm they were fired from near that building anyway. Call me old fashioned, but in my day we could target enemy artillery for counter-fire a bit faster than two days. And surprisingly, no-one has found any evidence of Hezbollah launchers in the rubble, only dead children.

Bloggers who come up with nonsense like the 'faces of the children were too white' when those bodies have been pulled from a destroyed concrete building need to be sent out there to retrieve some bodies themselves.

Does no-one pay attention these days? So this 'confederate yankee' site posted the article. It didn't write it. The original article, as I mentioned in my previous post, would appear to have been originally run in an Israeli daily magazine. By a chap called Reuven Koret.

Took me about 5 seconds to click on the link supplied on the American site to get to the Israeli original. But is that too much research to do, when it's so much easier to hop on the old high horse and start lambasting someone for their choice in source?

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Originally Posted by Somebody Else

Does no-one pay attention these days? So this 'confederate yankee' site posted the article. It didn't write it. The original article, as I mentioned in my previous post, would appear to have been originally run in an Israeli daily magazine. By a chap called Reuven Koret.

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If you're referring to me, I concluded by following your link that the Israeli article was as biased as the blog.

For example, they wrote about the first 1996 attack on Qana:

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Ten years ago, world condemnation of an errant Israeli shell that hit a civilian compound forced then-PM Shimon Peres to curtail the offensive against terror bases.

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An (singular) errant (mistaken) shell? Try this report from a BBC correspondent. The video clip is from Jeremy Bowen, well known as a excellent source.

For example:

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Israel calls it a terrible mistake. They said the same in 1996, until a video recorded by one of the UN soldiers was handed to veteran reporter Robert Fisk of the Independent newspaper. This showed an Israeli drone was flying low over the base and would have seen the civilians.

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Robert Fisk is widely regarded as a leading expert in the Middle East - most informed politicians on all sides read his reports for the real lowdown. Feel free to check his credentials.

I take your point about biased viewpoints informing and challenging one's own perspective, but its not necessary to absorb all the one-sided conspiracy theorists to understand that hard-line Israelis and supporters are trying to spin the story.

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Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost

If you're referring to me, I concluded by following your link that the Israeli article was as biased as the blog.

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I refer you to my first post on the matter,

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Originally Posted by Somebody Else

The original source of the quotation. Israeli website - obviously biased, therefore we should pay no attention to it. Or should we?

Just because something is biased, doesn't mean there isn't a grain of truth in it. Then again, it could still be false. Either way, it shouldn't be ignored, but used in collusion with other sources.

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The original source of the quotation. Israeli website - obviously biased, therefore we should pay no attention to it. Or should we?

Just because something is biased, doesn't mean there isn't a grain of truth in it. Then again, it could still be false. Either way, it shouldn't be ignored, but used in collusion with other sources.
Yes Somebody Else , and also it should be used in collusion with todays version rom them which contradicts yesterdays .

Speaking of... did anybody hear anything confirming or denying the report that Hezbollah was launching rockets next door to the UN outpost that got shelled?
Which one Don ? the one that got shelled , the other one that got shelled , the one that got bombed , the one that got mortared , the one that got shot at , the other one that got bombed , the one that got shelled again , the relief convoy that got shelled , the evacuation convoy that got shot at.......it just goes on and on , the situation reports are now issued daily instead of monthly and 6 monthly .
But to get to your point , yes there are lots of reported incidents from the monitors of both the Hez'ballah and IDF operating from near UN positions , there is also a report of an armed group removing the razor wire barrier and operating from within the UN position , but that wasn't the terrorists , that was the IDF (though with its complete disregard for civilian casualties and its abandonment of its own doctrine it is getting damn hard to tell the difference between the army and terrorists anymore) .

So far, all I've heard is that the UN begged the IDF to stop shelling them ten times.

Not quite Banquo , the position itself asked them 10 times , HQ asked 9 times and the Liason officer asked 6 times .

To update for Don as I assume it is the incident with the 3 unarmed observers killed and one missing presumed dead under a pile of rubble that he was on about.....
UNIFIL reported that, in total, 21 strikes occurred within 300 meters of the Patrol Base and 12 artillery rounds fell within 100 meters of the Base, four of which hit the Base directly. To our knowledge, unlike in the vicinity of some of our other Patrol Bases, Hezbollah firing was not taking place within the immediate vicinity of the Patrol Base.


And for todays report , 9 incidents of Israeli fire at UN bases none of which reported any hez'ballah activity , and 3 reports of hez'ballah activity near bases , none of which recieved Israeli fire .

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Originally Posted by Ser Clegane

No matter how dubious the cited source is (and it certainly is) - personal attacks will not be tolerated :stare:

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Don't worry, Ser. By the looks of it not many people take stalin seriously anyway.

"Why do I have to wait 234 seconds to post a reply?" :bigcry: :laugh4:

The video of that staged Genine (sp) "massacre" was priceless. Even though I think Hammas did that one Hizzibobo are more than capable of such of thing. Were the bodies staged? Did 7,000 civilians die in the invasion of Normandy? Did 100,000 people die when Tokyo was fire-bombed? I think we have to look at intent and I don't believe Israel intended to kill these people. But...:shrug:

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Originally Posted by Ser Clegane

No matter how dubious the cited source is (and it certainly is)

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It seems some of you overlook these, or have forgotton the nature of the
sources that Gawain has used in the past. It is simply laughable to take that as
fact - although naturally all of you who sympathise with Israel will want to find
something to lessen their crimes, that much is understandable.

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Originally Posted by Don Corleone

Speaking of... did anybody hear anything confirming or denying the report that Hezbollah was launching rockets next door to the UN outpost that got shelled?

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The only thing I've seen is the email from the Canadian member of the UN contingent where he speaks of Hezbollah positions in and around the UN "patrol base" and that Israeli bombs and shells are landing close to UN positions out of "tactical neccesity".

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Team Sierra is currently observing both IDF/IAF and Hezbollah military clashes from our vantage point which has a commanding view of the IDF positions on the Golan mountains to our east and the IDF positions along the Blue Line to our south, as well as, most of the Hezbollah static positions in and around our patrol Base. It appears that the lion's share of fighting between the IDF and Hezbollah has taken place in our area.

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What I can tell you is this: we have on a daily basis had numerous occasions where our position has come under direct or indirect fire from both artillery and aerial bombing. The closest artillery has landed within 2 meters of our position and the closest 1000 lb aerial bomb has landed 100 meters from our patrol base. This has not been deliberate targeting, but has rather been due to tactical necessity.

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link

The only thing I've seen is the email from the Canadian member of the UN contingent
So you didn't see post#21 then ? is that selective blindness :inquisitive:

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Originally Posted by Tribesman

The only thing I've seen is the email from the Canadian member of the UN contingent
So you didn't see post#21 then ? is that selective blindness :inquisitive:

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Still trolling I see. :no:

I was providing information and a link (try it sometime) to a question from Don. I provided information that actually helped answer his question and I dont see what bearing your post had on what I added.

I provided information that actually helped answer his question and I dont see what bearing your post had on what I added.
You provided information that said it was tactical neccesity on previous occasion .
I provided information that there was no hezbollah activity around the base at all during the day long incidents that ended in the deaths , so no tactical neccesity whatsoever .

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Originally Posted by English assassin

I refer to the Beruit acid test for who is right in the middle east: in any picture involving a kid and a tank, he is on the side of the kid.

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That acid test doesn't hold water when the enemy are known for using kids as intelligent, guided bombs.

Just because a people lack the heavy equipment (i.e. tanks, and F-16s) to militarily advance their cause does not automatically mean that their cause is just.

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The body starts to stiffen after 2 to 6 hours. I cannot really seem to find lapse of time between collapse and rescue attempts, but in your quote it is stated that the rescue was started very late, so there seems to be plenty of time for rigor mortis to start affecting the body.

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If they died in the collapse in the morning, and the press (kept properly away from the inside) and 'rescuers' came shortly thereafter, the bodies wouldn't be stiff.

Anyone remember 'Pallywood'? The palestinians pulled this kind of stunt (on a smaller scale, but much more often), and I would not be surprised at all if Hezbollah did this.

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I provided information that there was no hezbollah activity around the base at all during the day long incidents that ended in the deaths , so no tactical neccesity whatsoever .

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Sorry, but when was the last time you went to the UN posts in Lebanon? Oh, wait, you didn't? You don't say. :laugh4: Really, tribesy.

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That acid test doesn't hold water when the enemy are known for using kids as intelligent, guided bombs.

Just because a people lack the heavy equipment (i.e. tanks, and F-16s) to militarily advance their cause does not automatically mean that their cause is just.

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Exactly. If you saw a photo of a German kid looking at an advancing Sherman, does that make the kid's side right?

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Robert Fisk is widely regarded as a leading expert in the Middle East - most informed politicians on all sides read his reports for the real lowdown. Feel free to check his credentials.

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Fisk? 'The real lowdown'? Please.

Crazed Rabbit

Sorry, but when was the last time you went to the UN posts in Lebanon? Oh, wait, you didn't?
Hey bubba when was the last time you read the daily UNFIL sitreps or the UN preliminary inquiry into the incident. oh you didn't did you . So you have bugger all to say about it do you
Stick to gun nut weekly instead eh:juggle2:

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Originally Posted by Tribesman

I provided information that actually helped answer his question and I dont see what bearing your post had on what I added.
You provided information that said it was tactical neccesity on previous occasion .
I provided information that there was no hezbollah activity around the base at all during the day long incidents that ended in the deaths , so no tactical neccesity whatsoever .

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And

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Originally Posted by Tribesman

Sorry, but when was the last time you went to the UN posts in Lebanon? Oh, wait, you didn't?
Hey bubba when was the last time you read the daily UNFIL sitreps or the UN preliminary inquiry into the incident. oh you didn't did you . So you have bugger all to say about it do you
Stick to gun nut weekly instead eh

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I wonder if Tribesman is actually reading the Press Releases - since the site for UNIFIL does not publish the sitreps that the observers send? If your reading the actual situation reports from the United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon, Tribesman kindly provide that link so we can review the actual Situation Reports. A press release is significantly different then the Situation Reports that will be filed by the Observers themselves.

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Originally Posted by Text from August 1 Press Release UNIFIL

UNITED NATIONS INTERIM FORCE IN LEBANON
(UNIFIL)
Naqoura,
1 August 2006
PRESS RELEASE
This afternoon, the IDF entered Lebanese territory in the general area of
Ayta Ash Shab in the western sector. Heavy ground fighting is reported in
this area. The general area of Ayta Ash Shab, Ramyah, Dibil, and Qawzah
was under intensive Israeli shelling yesterday and this morning.
This morning, the IDF crossed the Blue Line and made a limited incursion
entering Lebanese territory in the general area of Hula in the central sector,
where they remain until now. No fighting is reported.
The IDF maintained their presence in the general area of Kafr Kila in the
eastern sector. They continued intensive shelling in the area of Kafr Kila,
Tayyabah, Addeisseh, and Raab att Tanatine, and ground fighting is reported
last night and today. There were also reports of Israeli air strikes in the
general area of Kafr Kila yesterday. The IDF moved some reinforcements last
night into this area.
It seems that the IDF also maintained their presence inside Lebanese
territory in the general area of Marun Al Ras in the central sector. It was
reported that some of the IDF troops withdrew from that area yesterday.
Yesterday morning, the IDF entered Lebanese territory in the area of Al
Duhayra in the western sector, and withdrew to the Israeli side through the
area of Marwahin later in the afternoon.
Exchanges of fire continued with somewhat reduced intensity along the
length of the Blue Line in the past 24 hours. Hezbollah continued to fire
rockets and mortars, but on a lower scale. The IDF continued intensive
shelling.
One artillery round from the Israeli side impacted directly on a UNIFIL
position in the general area of Mays Al Jabal early this morning, causing
material damage, but no casualties. There were eight other incidents of firing
from the Israeli side close to UNIFIL positions in the general area of Hula last
night and this morning. It was reported that Hezbollah fired mortar rounds
from the vicinity of three UNIFIL positions in the area of Tibnin, Hariss, and
At Tiri. UNIFIL strongly protested all these incidents to the Israeli and
Lebanese authorities respectively.
All UNIFIL positions remain permanently occupied and maintained by the
troops. UNIFIL dispatched a number of logistic convoys yesterday to resupply
the positions. Additional re-supply convoys to the eastern sector,
including the forward positions, are planned for today.
UNIFIL extricated and provided escorts for 40 foreign nationals from Rmeich
to Tyre yesterday. Twelve Australian nationals and 7 Lebanese civilians were
transported from the UN position in the area of Marwahin to Tyre. 15
Lebanese civilians and 6 US citizens from Marun Al Ras were sheltered inside
the UN position in that area yesterday. Attempts are being made to relocate
them out of the area. There were reports that some 2000 Lebanese civilians
fled from the Shaba village towards the Beka’a valley yesterday.
UNIFIL delivered food and water to Rmeich, and delivered water to Ibil As
Saqi yesterday. It is also planned to deliver water to the hospital in Tibnin
today. UNIFIL attempted to assist the local authorities in Marjayoun to repair
and restore the power supply yesterday, but they were not able to proceed
due to the heavy shelling in the area.
Yesterday, the IDF handed over to UNIFIL one Lebanese female civilian who
was caught in the cross fire and wounded in the area of Marun Al Ras, and
her son. This move was coordinated with the Lebanese authorities. UNIFIL
handed them over to the Lebanese authorities today.

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Site for those that are interested is here.

http://www.un.org/Depts/dpko/mission...nifilpress.htm

And then there is the July 30 Press Release.

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Originally Posted by UNIFIL Press Release dated July 30

UNITED NATIONS INTERIM FORCE IN LEBANON
(UNIFIL)
Naqoura,
30 July 2006
PRESS RELEASE
Heavy exchanges of fire continued unabated along the length of the Blue Line
in the past 24 hours. Hezbollah continued to fire rockets and mortars from
various locations, and the IDF continued the shelling and aerial
bombardment.
During the night, IDF troops entered Lebanese territory in the area of Kafr
Kila in the eastern sector, and are currently present in the general area of
Kafr Kila, Al Tayyabah and Deir Mimess. Intensive fighting on the ground was
reported in the area of Al Tayyabah this morning. The area was under heavy
Israeli bombardment and shelling yesterday.
The IDF also maintained their presence inside Lebanese territory in the
general area of Marun Al Ras/Bint Jubayl in the central sector. It was
reported that they had withdrawn some of their forces from this area to the
Israeli side during the night. Sporadic fighting in these areas, as well as the
shelling and bombardment of the areas north of Bint Jubayl (Aynata,
Aytarun, At Tiri, Brashit and Ayn Ibil) was reported yesterday.
Five aerial rockets from the Israeli side impacted in the immediate vicinity (5
to 20 meters) of a UNIFIL position in the area of Addaisseh, yesterday
afternoon. One aerial rocket exploded in the air above the position and two
UNIFIL soldiers from the Indian battalion were moderately wounded and
evacuated to the UNIFIL hospital in Ibil As Saqy. In another incident, one
artillery round from the Israeli side impacted directly inside the UNIFIL
position in Mays Al Jabal yesterday night, causing extensive material damage
and the collapse of the ammunition shelter, but no casualties. Early morning,
two IDF soldiers removed and dragged away the protective concertina wire
around the UNIFIL position in the Marun Al Ras area. It was reported that
Hezbollah fired rockets from the vicinity of three UN positions in the area of
Tibnin, At Tiri and Brashit. They also fired small arms fire from the vicinity of
two UN positions in the area of Alma Ash Shab and Al Duhayyra. UNIFIL
strongly protested all these incidents to the Israeli and Lebanese authorities
respectively.
(Since the outbreak of hostilities, four military observers from OGL,
one UNIFIL international staff member and his wife were killed, and
four Ghanaian soldiers, three Indian soldiers, and one OGL military
observer were wounded as a result of firing.)
All UNIFIL positions remain permanently occupied and maintained by the
troops. UNIFIL dispatched five logistic convoys to re-supply UN positions with
water and fuel. After a number of attempts, UNIFIL also succeeded to resupply
the position in the Marun Al Ras area. The search operation for the
body of the fourth OGL military observer in Khiyam remained suspended as
UNIFIL is still unable to reach the position and bring heavy engineering
equipment to remove the debris due to the exchanges of fire in the area.
This morning, UNIFIL medical teams from Tibnin and Naqoura were urgently
dispatched to the village of Qana to provide medical and humanitarian
assistance to the local population and the victims of the aerial bombardment.
The UNIFIL engineering team from China is also dispatched to Qana to assist
in the search and rescue operation and to clear the debris.
UNIFIL provided an escort to a contingent of Lebanese Joint Security Forces
out of their headquarters in Marjayoun. However, the convoy was unable to
proceed to Tibnin due to a broken bridge and the heavy firing along the road,
and has returned to Marjayoun. UNIFIL provided a humanitarian escort and
transportation to a group of 38 Lebanese civilians from Naqoura to Tyre.
They were still reports of convoys of civilian cars moving from areas between
Yarin and Alma Ash Shab. Today, UNIFIL will attempt to extricate and
provide escort for a number of foreign nationals from Rmaich and the
neighboring villages to Naqoura for evacuation from the country.
A French ship, arrived to the waters of Naqoura this morning, with essential
supplies for UNIFIL humanitarian efforts and re-supply. The ship is also to
evacuate a number of foreign nationals from the border areas.

---

So if I stood on Normandy beach on D-day, wearing a blue helmet and yelling into a bull horn "You're shooting too close to me!", who's fault would I be if I got shot?:oops:

Quote:

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Sorry, but when was the last time you went to the UN posts in Lebanon? Oh, wait, you didn't?
Hey bubba when was the last time you read the daily UNFIL sitreps or the UN preliminary inquiry into the incident. oh you didn't did you . So you have bugger all to say about it do you
Stick to gun nut weekly instead eh

---

Bubba? Tribesy, you crack me up! I don't think you'd like it if a comparison was made of body weight and fat...:laugh4:

And where did I write out some totally-unbacked up stuff and claim it as irrefutable evidence regarding UN posts in Lebanon?

The hilarious thing is you probably didn't read the UNFIL sitreps, but claimed to. And if you did, where is the evidence? If not at the UNFIL site, please, fill us in on where you get your info. :laugh4: Are you admitting 'tis you who knows 'bugger all' about it?

And the press releases talk of Hezbollah fire coming from five different UN posts on one day alone. That's the point of the thing, isn't it? Hezbollah attacks Israel from near the UN posts, forcing Israel to respond.

Uh-oh, I'm getting a sick feeling in my stomach.

Crazed Rabbit

The hilarious thing is you probably didn't read the UNFIL sitreps, but claimed to. And if you did, where is the evidence?
Pathetic Rabbit , perhaps you should stick to debating other countries gun laws that you know nothing about .
Or if you want some fun to show how full of it you are why not take the quote I posted and see which of the documents on the site Red linked to it is taken from . then you can get all the other details I posted and see which reports they come from .

And the press releases talk of Hezbollah fire coming from five different UN posts on one day alone. That's the point of the thing, isn't it? Hezbollah attacks Israel from near the UN posts, forcing Israel to respond.

You can read can't you . They talk of no fire coming from the vicinity of the post that was repeatedly hit where the observers were killed , no fire coming from near the posts that were hit yesterday , and no response when hezbollah was firing from near the posts .
So what the hell are the Israelis responding to and who is forcing them to do anything ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tribesman

Or if you want some fun to show how full of it you are why not take the quote I posted and see which of the documents on the site Red linked to it is taken from . then you can get all the other details I posted and see which reports they come from .

---

Here to help once again - the most likely source of your intial comments.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Briefing by Ms. Jane Holl Lute, ASG for Peacekeeping Operations

The hostilities between Hezbollah and Israel yesterday took a tragic turn for the United Nations. Three unarmed military observers of the Observer Group Lebanon were killed in a direct hit on their position, Patrol Base "Khiyam". A fourth is feared dead. This has come on top of the civilian staff member and his wife who disappeared on 17 July, when the building in Tyre they were living in, collapsed after being hit by the Israel Defence Forces.

Yesterday's events unfolded as follows: beginning at approx 13:20 local time, Patrol Base Khiyam, a long-established and clearly–marked UN position in the eastern section of UNIFIL's area of operation, close to the town of Khiyam, came under recurrent incidents of close firing.

UNIFIL reported that, in total, 21 strikes occurred within 300 meters of the Patrol Base and 12 artillery rounds fell within 100 meters of the Base, four of which hit the Base directly. To our knowledge, unlike in the vicinity of some of our other Patrol Bases, Hezbollah firing was not taking place within the immediate vicinity of the Patrol Base.

Throughout the day, UNIFIL had protested, directly to the IDF each of these incidents of firing close to Patrol Base Khiyam. The Deputy Secretary-General and I made several calls to the Permanent Mission of Israel to the United Nations reiterating these protests and calling for an abatement of the shelling.

Two final firings close were reported before communications with the position were lost.

At 19:17 local time Lebanon, UNIFIL Headquarters in Naqoura lost communications with Patrol Base "Khiyam", where four unarmed military observers of the Observer Group Lebanon were deployed. UNIFIL Force Commander Major-General Alain Pellegrini immediately informed the Secretariat of that situation. Here in New York we repeated our calls for an abatement to the Permanent Mission of Israel.

Following the loss of communication with Patrol Base "Khiyam", UNIFIL coordinated with the IDF safe passage for two armoured personnel carriers taking troops from the Indian Battalion in a nearby position to the Patrol Base to vacate the position. These troops reached the position at 21:30 and found the shelter collapsed and major damage to the rest of the position. Until now, the rescue team has located three sets of remains. The fourth military observer is also feared dead. Firing continued during the rescue operation despite repeated requests to the IDF for an abatement.

UNIFIL has reported 145 incidents of "firing close" of which 16 were direct hits on its positions. Several positions have sustained more than one direct hit, causing various degrees of damage to buildings, equipment and vehicles.

Incidents of firing close to UNIFIL positions continue: this morning, UNIFIL reported that at 8 am New York time an artillery round impacted approximately 10 meters from its Headquarters compound in Naqoura. Both UNIFIL and this Headquarters have registered protests with the Israeli authorities.

We appreciate the acknowledgment of the Government of Israel of the tragic consequences of its military activity yesterday and as the Secretary-General has said in Rome, we accept the word of the Prime Minister. We also welcome the Prime Minister's announcement of an investigation, which we believe should be done jointly with the United Nations.<

It is important to note that UNIFIL has also come under direct attacks by small arms fire from Hezbollah forcing the mission to abort the escort of Lebanese civilians to safe areas and movement of troops on other humanitarian missions has been impeded. Furthermore, an unarmed military observer was seriously wounded in cross-fire on 23 July.

I reiterate the Secretary-General's call for an immediate cessation of hostilities, which he just repeated once more at the press conference in Rome, and the need to work on a political solution to the crisis.

In the current circumstances, we draw to the attention of the Security Council that we may need to prepare for a consolidation of our Observer Group Lebanon presence to minimise further risk to its personnel.

---

http://www.un.org/apps/news/press/Te...sp?NewsID=1084

Which I believe what is bolded matches Tribesman's quote of UNIFIL reported that, in total, 21 strikes occurred within 300 meters of the Patrol Base and 12 artillery rounds fell within 100 meters of the Base, four of which hit the Base directly. To our knowledge, unlike in the vicinity of some of our other Patrol Bases, Hezbollah firing was not taking place within the immediate vicinity of the Patrol Base.

What especially concerns me and what is not mentioned in many media sources about Hezbollah is contained in the last few paragraphs - I bolded the topic of concern in blue for ease of identification.

If Hezbollah was concerned about civilians being killed in the conflict - why would they also be wanting to stop the UN from evacuating those same civilians. This to me demonstrates one of the goals of Hezbollah in this conflict very well. One that many will refuse to ackownledge.

Damn you again red , you could at least have left it so that maybe , just maybe Rabbit would actually learn something for himself~;)

What especially concerns me and what is not mentioned in many media sources about Hezbollah is contained in the last few paragraphs - I bolded the topic of concern in blue for ease of identification.

It concerns you , but does it surprise you at all ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tribesman

Damn you again red , you could at least have left it so that maybe , just maybe Rabbit would actually learn something for himself~;)

---

Well its rather amusing to actually provide the reference. As one can see the speech wasn't all that favorable of Hezbollah either.

Quote:

---

What especially concerns me and what is not mentioned in many media sources about Hezbollah is contained in the last few paragraphs - I bolded the topic of concern in blue for ease of identification.

It concerns you , but does it surprise you at all ?

---

Nope - both sides have supporters that will shut their eyes and ears from seeing that both are part of the problem. What Hezbollah and Israel must come to face is that both of them have to be part of the solution also.

What Hezbollah and Israel must come to face is that both of them have to be part of the solution also.
What !!!!! you mean talking with terrorists ??????NO NEVER .
Oh ......but they already are , through their usual intermediaries , the Germans .
Its funny how the media hasn't covered that very much either .~;)

Quote:

---

If Hezbollah was concerned about civilians being killed in the conflict - why would they also be wanting to stop the UN from evacuating those same civilians. This to me demonstrates one of the goals of Hezbollah in this conflict very well. One that many will refuse to ackownledge.

---

Hezbollah is concerned about civillian casualties all right- concerned about having as many as they can. :no:

Hezbollah staging it would surprise me just as little as Israel shooting the crap out of it on purpose. Jewish middle-easters, arab middle-easters, what's the difference it's all the middle-east.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Jewish middle-easters, arab middle-easters, what's the difference it's all the middle-east.

---

Loopy as the mid-west?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Somebody Else

Loopy as the mid-west?

---

Holland doesn't have much of a mid-west. As soon as you get out of the far east, it gets damp. It doesn't have much of a north and south either.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pannonian

Holland doesn't have much of a mid-west. As soon as you get out of the far east, it gets damp. It doesn't have much of a north and south either.

---

Oh you so naughty, watch me being offended.

Hey, we've got Friesland.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Geoffrey S

Hey, we've got Friesland.

---

'we'? ~;)

Hurray!

Red herring award goes to...

Um.

I'll stop now.

I always suspected it... Jonah Goldberg gets some of his story material directly from... .Gawain! Check the link, the very same site Gawain linked to, 2 days ago.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fragony

'we'? ~;)

---

Dammit, gave away the sneaky british conquest of Friesland already.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tribesman

The hilarious thing is you probably didn't read the UNFIL sitreps, but claimed to. And if you did, where is the evidence?
Pathetic Rabbit , perhaps you should stick to debating other countries gun laws that you know nothing about .
Or if you want some fun to show how full of it you are why not take the quote I posted and see which of the documents on the site Red linked to it is taken from . then you can get all the other details I posted and see which reports they come from .

---

Poor, poor tribesy. So you didn't read the sitreps, which you claimed to, and got caught on it. Now, what were you saying about people who didn't read the sitreps? Oh yeah:

Quote:

---

So you have bugger all to say about it do you

---

How does your petard feel? :laugh4: :laugh4:

Quote:

---

And the press releases talk of Hezbollah fire coming from five different UN posts on one day alone. That's the point of the thing, isn't it? Hezbollah attacks Israel from near the UN posts, forcing Israel to respond.

You can read can't you . They talk of no fire coming from the vicinity of the post that was repeatedly hit where the observers were killed , no fire coming from near the posts that were hit yesterday , and no response when hezbollah was firing from near the posts .
So what the hell are the Israelis responding to and who is forcing them to do anything ?

---

Gee, could it be that Israel is trying to damage Hezbollah, but they don't have the info that the UN observers, sitting near the terrorists launching rockets at civilians and doing nothing, have? That maybe their info isn't always the most up-to-date?

No, what. It must be that Israel is just out to get as many people mad as it as possible, and wants to kill UN soldiers. Some troll on the internet told me so, it must be true!

Quote:

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Damn you again red , you could at least have left it so that maybe , just maybe Rabbit would actually learn something for himself

---

Well, woe is me if I can't 'learn' something from some crazy ranter on an internet game site. I feel terrible. All that learning in college must've been that sneaky, crafty, fake learning. I'm sure your college-or high school, if you haven't gone to college yet- learning must've been the real kind. ~;)

Crazed Rabbit

I'm gonna pull a Tribesman and tell you that Human Rights Watch cut the number of dead down to about half. No link for you guys, I'm tired.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by http://blog.washingtonpost.com/worldopinionroundup/2006/08/the_qana_conspiracy_theory.html

Confronted with photographs of dead children, Israeli Insider's Korvet insisted they must be something else: "The victims were non-residents who chose to shelter in the building that night," he writes. "They were 'too poor' to leave the down, one resident told CNN's [Jon] Wedeman. Who were these people?"

That question has been definitively answered in the mainstream press. Almost all of the victims belonged to two extended families, the Hashems and the Shalhoubs, who lived in the area, according to the independent accounts of The Washington Post's Anthony Shadid and the Daily Star's Nicholas Blanford.

---

According to Jefferson Morley of http://blog.washingtonpost.com/world...cy_theory.html

most or all of the victims were members of the Shalhoub and Hashem families as independently confirmed in these articles:

(Qana relives 1996 massacre as air strike kills at least 60 civilians by Nicholas Blanford)
http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article....ticle_id=74379

(A Refuge That Became A Place of Death by Anthony Shadid)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...073000594.html

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

Gee, could it be that Israel is trying to damage Hezbollah, but they don't have the info that the UN observers, sitting near the terrorists launching rockets at civilians and doing nothing, have? That maybe their info isn't always the most up-to-date?

No, what. It must be that Israel is just out to get as many people mad as it as possible, and wants to kill UN soldiers. Some troll on the internet told me so, it must be true!

---

Or perhaps someone just wants the observers to get out so the only witnesses in the area are IDF soldiers, Hizbollah fighters and locals? That way there's one less group to report on what happens. Then we can either believe the IDF and be true defenders of Israel, believe the Hizbollah and be anti-semites or believe the locals and just don't have the full picture.

Poor, poor tribesy. So you didn't read the sitreps, which you claimed to, and got caught on it. Now, what were you saying about people who didn't read the sitreps? Oh yeah:

Silly boy Rabbit , so you have language difficulties as well as learning difficulties ?

Gee, could it be that Israel is trying to damage Hezbollah, but they don't have the info that the UN observers, sitting near the terrorists launching rockets at civilians and doing nothing, have? That maybe their info isn't always the most up-to-date?

Now that is getting really desperate Rabbit , I suppose the fact that the observers and their HQ were in contact with the IDF escaped your notice , but maybe they were using carrier pigeons instead of radio , so that would explain them being not up to date eh .
But what about the presence of the liason officer with the IDF , I suppose he was off on an extended tea break all day when he was keeping them up to date .
Oh and don't mention the Israeli UAVs relaying information in real-time , because of course live information isn't up to date .

But of course your whole passage there shows how little understanding you have , the UN observers were not sitting near terrorists launching rockets , there was no terrorist activity , and the observers were not "doing nothing" they were doing their job , their job is to observe and report .
They observed Israeli fire , they reported Israeli fire , and again and again and......then they got killed by Isreali fire .
Now Israel have been very nice about it , they have said sorry , they have said it was a terrible mistake .
What would be nice though (apart from not killing UN observers) is if they would actually let the UN recover the missing body .

I'm gonna pull a Tribesman and tell you that Human Rights Watch cut the number of dead down to about half. No link for you guys, I'm tired.
Vlad , is that what the report actually says , or does it say they have altered the amount that they have independantly confirmed downward and correspondingly altered the amount listed missing upward (with a small alteration) . Now in that report ,would you like to elaborate on the use of words like systematic and war crimes .:2thumbsup:

Quote:

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Just because a people lack the heavy equipment (i.e. tanks, and F-16s) to militarily advance their cause does not automatically mean that their cause is just.

---

So you tell me.. What cause would be worth it to go against an eenmy that has really better equipment than you? A bad one, I don't think so.

Quote:

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Sorry, but when was the last time you went to the UN posts in Lebanon? Oh, wait, you didn't? You don't say. Really, tribesy.

---

And your point is.. ?!

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Just because a people lack the heavy equipment (i.e. tanks, and F-16s) to militarily advance their cause does not automatically mean that their cause is just.

---

Exactly. If you saw a photo of a German kid looking at an advancing Sherman, does that make the kid's side right?

---

Quote:

---

So you tell me.. What cause would be worth it to go against an eenmy that has really better equipment than you? A bad one, I don't think so.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by x-dANGEr

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Goofball

Just because a people lack the heavy equipment (i.e. tanks, and F-16s) to militarily advance their cause does not automatically mean that their cause is just.

---

So you tell me.. What cause would be worth it to go against an eenmy that has really better equipment than you? A bad one, I don't think so.

---

I didn't say "good" or "bad," I said "just."

Hezbollah believe their cause (the eradication of the state of Israel and subsequent ethnic cleansing of Jews) is a "good" one. But it is by no means just.

They get no sympathy from me by playing the "we're the underdog" card.

Or to put it in British terms, we're not going to make the badger a bishop (a new figure of speech I learned when looking for that beating a dead horse picture).

Generally speaking, most people believe their views are just. Very few people are truly so cynical as to pursue them knowing full well they are injust. But clearly, not all causes can be just.

Example: In the late 1800's, the American government believed that the problem with Native Americans was that they weren't Christian. So, they started sending them to schools that forced a Christian conversion on them. While now, looking back, we can all certainly agree (well, most of us can) that this was wrong of us to do. Forcing somebody to convert is no conversion at all. But even the most rabid critic would pause before claiming the people of the time were convinced that what they were doing was wrong.

Like Goofball, I think the destruction of Israel and the extermination of Jews worldwide is a terribly injust cause. So, I am actually quite glad Hezbollah is the underdog, and too weak to have any considerable success at their cause. But their being weak does not instill them with nobility of purpose. Compared to the police department that eventually caught him, Charles Manson was weak, but his cause certainly was not a worthy one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Don Corleone

Or to put it in British terms, we're not going to make the badger a bishop (a new figure of speech I learned when looking for that beating a dead horse picture).

Generally speaking, most people believe their views are just. Very few people are truly so cynical as to pursue them knowing full well they are injust. But clearly, not all causes can be just.

Example: In the late 1800's, the American government believed that the problem with Native Americans was that they weren't Christian. So, they started sending them to schools that forced a Christian conversion on them. While now, looking back, we can all certainly agree (well, most of us can) that this was wrong of us to do. Forcing somebody to convert is no conversion at all. But even the most rabid critic would pause before claiming the people of the time were convinced that what they were doing was wrong.

Like Goofball, I think the destruction of Israel and the extermination of Jews worldwide is a terribly injust cause. So, I am actually quite glad Hezbollah is the underdog, and too weak to have any considerable success at their cause. But their being weak does not instill them with nobility of purpose. Compared to the police department that eventually caught him, Charles Manson was weak, but his cause certainly was not a worthy one.

---

To coin some more anglicisms on the subject of Israel,

This lot are bad but the other lot are worse.
They're bastards, but they're our bastards.

I somewhat fail to comprehend why Hezbollah would have to bother staging anything though. Israel isn't exactly famed for being overly concerned about, now what was the antiseptic Newspeak word, collateral damage as 'accidentally' blowing up an UN observation site that's been sitting there for decades rather well demonstrates (our governement is incidentally kind of honked off about it, one of the observers killed having been Finnish).
Or the way they consider laser-guided antitank missiles fired into milling mosque courtyards to be a good assasination weapon (against an old man in a wheelchair, no less), for that matter. Recall that these are the folks with Operation Samson sitting in their strongbox and a penchance of demolishing residential buildings with huge-ass armoured bulldozers quite regardless of if there's someone in there.

Alienating the local populace wouldn't exactly seem to be in Hezbollah's best interests either. AFAIK the region is just about their staunchest support area, and it's not like the IDF's liberal use of excessive force wasn't winning them the propaganda war without having to really lift a finger anyway.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tribesman

Poor, poor tribesy. So you didn't read the sitreps, which you claimed to, and got caught on it. Now, what were you saying about people who didn't read the sitreps? Oh yeah:

Silly boy Rabbit , so you have language difficulties as well as learning difficulties ?

---

Nope, but you've just confirmed the fact that you do. Do you ever not resort to the desperate flailings of ad homenin attacks when you're losing? And why no response to my comment about that fake learning? Afraid the local community college basket weaving course won't impress?

Quote:

---

Gee, could it be that Israel is trying to damage Hezbollah, but they don't have the info that the UN observers, sitting near the terrorists launching rockets at civilians and doing nothing, have? That maybe their info isn't always the most up-to-date?

Now that is getting really desperate Rabbit , I suppose the fact that the observers and their HQ were in contact with the IDF escaped your notice , blah blah blah...

---

Wow, tribesy, you must live in the magical world where war is waged as in the TW games, and everything any unit hears, reports, or sees is instantly reported to the supreme commander, no matter how far away or busy he is, who can direct other far off units instantly to do as he says.
:laugh4: :laugh4:

You're hilarious. But seriously, you must not have read the IDF reports on mean report time and information transfer time, and order reaction time, and, of course, the reports on live intel gathering. (Not the full, confidential ones, just what they released to the public) You'd be rather foolish yakking disjointedly about stuff you're ignorant of.:laugh4: :laugh4:

Crazed Rabbit

Get real Rabbit. The IDF has had the whole southern Lebanon mapped pretty much rock for rock and tree for tree for a long time (they occupied it, or in any case tried to, for a few decades ferchrissakes) and knew perfectly well where all the UN posts were. Hell, they'd been binocularing the one that got leveled for quite a while too (since well before the recent conflict) judging by some of the lame-ass excuses they offered right after the fact.

The fact is, they just didn't give a damn. Which is really pretty typical both for the Israeli way to do things, and for military juggernauts frustrated by unexpectedly tenacious guerillas. I seem to recall certain incident with white phosphorous and urban areas in Iraq not all that long ago too...

You know, my brother's working in a construction yard for the summer. Among the many nuggets of stubble-chinned old working men's wisdom he's picked up there is the chestnut "the tools grow bigger when the brains get smaller"...

Nope, but you've just confirmed the fact that you do. Do you ever not resort to the desperate flailings of ad homenin attacks when you're losing? And why no response to my comment about that fake learning?
Because you clearly have no understanding of language , since there is nothing fake about what I have written , the only response needed is that which was given ......"silly boy" .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tribesman

Nope, but you've just confirmed the fact that you do. Do you ever not resort to the desperate flailings of ad homenin attacks when you're losing? And why no response to my comment about that fake learning?
Because you clearly have no understanding of language , since there is nothing fake about what I have written , the only response needed is that which was given ......"silly boy" .

---

Is your quote in post #8 a UNFIL sitrep?

Tribesy, whenever I feel depressed, all I need to do is come here and read some of your posts. Never fails to cheer me up. :2thumbsup:

And sadly, you have prolonged your ignorance by not reading those IDF reports. Can't really claim to know anything without having read them, can you?

Let's review now:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tribesy #31

Hey bubba when was the last time you read the daily UNFIL sitreps or the UN preliminary inquiry into the incident. oh you didn't did you .

---

You claim that you read the UNFIL sitreps.
But then, the plot thickens:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Redleg #32

I wonder if Tribesman is actually reading the Press Releases - since the site for UNIFIL does not publish the sitreps that the observers send? If your reading the actual situation reports from the United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon, Tribesman kindly provide that link so we can review the actual Situation Reports. A press release is significantly different then the Situation Reports that will be filed by the Observers themselves.

---

So, let's go back to post #31:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tribesy

So you have bugger all to say about it do you

---

And, as it turns out, it applies to you. Rather fitting, don't you think? :book: :idea2: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:

And, we have also found the answer to my question:

Quote:

---

Do you ever not resort to the desperate flailings of ad homenin attacks when you're losing?

---

(No)

Crazed Rabbit

CR you're aware that the article Tribesman quoted (and Redleg later posted) wasn't a press-release?

Now, now you can possibly still mock him on that point depending on how a briefing compares to a sitrep.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ironside

CR you're aware that the article Tribesman quoted (and Redleg later posted) wasn't a press-release?

---

that is strange since the UNIFIL site listed my first link as a Press Release and not a sitrep. The second UN link is for a press briefing that was given.

Quote:

---

Now, now you can possibly still mock him on that point depending on how a briefing compares to a sitrep.

---

They are usually significantly different. Hince the second part of the statement from me was if Tribesman has a link to the actually Sitreps. I would like to also see them since my searching has yet to find any actual Sitreps only Press Briefings and Press Releases.

Here is one Sitrep I have found but its from the WHO

http://www.reliefweb.int/rw/RWB.NSF/...8?OpenDocument

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ironside

CR you're aware that the article Tribesman quoted (and Redleg later posted) wasn't a press-release?

---

Whaa...?
https://img85.imageshack.us/img85/97...releasebv8.jpg

Quote:

---

Now, now you can possibly still mock him on that point depending on how a briefing compares to a sitrep.

---

Yup.

Crazed Rabbit

The two first was press releases.

Not this one though http://www.un.org/apps/news/press/Te...sp?NewsID=1084, unless you got a vague concept of press release (personally I consider it anything that is originally written for being released to the press as offical statements, otherwise could everything that's released to the media be considered as press releases). And that was the one Tribesman quoted.
It seems to later have been used in a press breifing though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Redleg

They are usually significantly different. Hince the second part of the statement from me was if Tribesman has a link to the actually Sitreps. I would like to also see them since my searching has yet to find any actual Sitreps only Press Briefings and Press Releases.

Here is one Sitrep I have found but its from the WHO

http://www.reliefweb.int/rw/RWB.NSF/...8?OpenDocument

---

Well, if that's the standard version of a sitrep, then I agree that they're quite different. The only way to define the briefing as a situation report is word play, and that's something I'm not particulary fond of.


CR feel free to mock Tribes, but do it atleast correctly. ~;)

Tribesy, whenever I feel depressed, all I need to do is come here and read some of your posts. Never fails to cheer me up.
Silly boy Rabbit , would you like some help ?
What is a situation report ? It is a report on the situation .
Do you understand yet ?

It seems that the actual discussion of the topic is over and all that we have left is the exchange of niceties.

Closed