A Gamer's Guide to PC Components

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08-21-2006, 23:06
Woad Warrior

A Gamer's Guide to PC Components

As I have been trying to upgrade my computer recently, I've realised that it can be quite an ordeal. I was completely clueless about the various components, what to get, which ones would work etc. Therefore, I thought it might be helpful to set up a thread to give advice to others planning on upgrading their PC's, or even getting new ones. I'll be adding to this thread as I continue to learn more about upgrading PC's, and any more info anyone has would be appreciated, and immediately added to this post. Eventually, I hope it will be a simple and thorough guide for all gamers here at the Guild to refer to. You can correct me if I'm wrong anywhere.

Graphics Cards:

This can be one of the most confusing aspects when upgrading a PC. Graphics cards are necessary to improve the performance of your PC while playing games, as they will allow them to run much more smoothly and on higher settings. You need to be extremely careful the graphics card you buy is the right one to fit into your PC's slots. There are several types of slots. PCI slots are the oldest type, found in older computers when graphics were less significant. However, these slots are still manufactured in almost every computer today, and so there is a wide variety of graphics cards available for them.

As graphics became more important, AGP slots were developed, allowing more powerful graphics cards to be developed for them. As well as the AGP slots, AGP Pro slots were developed to cater for even more powerful graphics cards. AGP Pro graphics cards are longer than AGP cards, and so cannot fit into an AGP slot, although AGP cards can fit into an AGP Pro slot.

AGP slots are rapidly being replaced by PCI Express slots. These slots offer the best performance, and are SLI compatible, meaning they allow dual-graphics cards to be installed, for extremely high quality performances.

NOTE: The range in prices for the same graphics card across different sites can be incredible. 500% price increases between some sites. So, an excellent site I recommend is:

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/acatal...ics_Cards.html

The following is a guide for PCI and PCI Express slots, based on performances for RTW:

Budget Gamers - You may want to make do with your computers integrated graphics card. However, for a pretty smooth and solid performance on low-medium settings, these cards can be found around the range of £20-£40.

GeForce 6200, GeForce 6600
HIS Excalibur ATI Radeon 7000, Sapphire ATI Radeon X1300

Casual Gamers - For those people who like to play games often, but their lives aren't dominated by them, these graphics cards will offer a largely smooth gaming performance even on medium-high settings, and are priced from £30-£70.

GeForce 7300 LE, GeForce 7300 GS, GeForce 7300 GT
HIS Excalibur ATI Radeon X1600 XT

Serious Gamers - You spend a lot of time at your PC, so you want it to run smoothly and with quality. These are high-end graphics cards, allowing things to run nice and fluently on high settings, without you digging to deeply into your wallet, maybe for around £60-£100. Also, some of these graphics cards are SLI compatable, meaning if you have a PCI Express slot, you will likely be able to combine more than one of them.

GeForce 7600 GS, GeForce 7600 GT
HIS Excalibur ATI Radeon X800 GTO, Sapphire X1600 Pro

Extreme Gamers - You spend most of your time parked in front of a screen, so you want that time spent well. These are the best in graphics cards - top quality performance on the top settings. Unfortunately, even on the cheaper sites I've found, its gonna cost you anything from £150-£350. Some examples:

GeForce 7900 GT, GeForce 7900 GTX, GeForce 7950 GX2
PowerColor ATI Radeon X1800 XT, ATI Radeon X1900 Crossfire Edition, Sapphire ATI Radeon X1900 XT-X

Random Access Memory (RAM)

RAM, or Random Access Memory, determines the speed of your computer. RAM will always improve your PC's performance when carrying out standard tasks, but when it comes to playing games, RAM and a Graphics Card are both required for a decent performance, one is little use without the other. Upgrading your RAM is one of the cheapest and easiest ways to effectively upgrade your PC. Its also a lot more simple than selecting Graphics Cards, but you should still think carefully about how much you really need. Apart from the really old 64 MB etc, modern RAM has ratings of 256 MB, 512 MB, 1024 MB. The higher the better. As well as this, they have a rating in Mega Hertz, which effectively shows how fast they work. The rating in MB is for showing how the RAM will cope with large or several tasks at once, and the rating in MHz shows the RAM's processing speed. So, be careful when picking RAM, remember, money saved on RAM could go towards a better Graphics Card or anything else you need. So, a quick Guide for general gaming, but based on RTW:

Budget Gamers - For a bog standard performance of RTW, 256 MB RAM will do. Most computers made in the last few years should come with it anyway. Any less than this and you have to upgrade - 256 MB RAM is an official minimun requirement for RTW. Of course, all the various forms of 256 MB RAM have different levels of quality. Budget Gamers might consider buying, for around £20, or for the latter below, up to £40:

Crucial 256 MB DDR PC3200 CAS3 (256 MB, 200 MHz)
OCZ PC 3700 Gold Series EL-DDR CAS2 (256 MB, 450 MHz)

Casual Gamers - For a solid gaming performance, with little lag and fairly slow loading times, 512 MB should have the power to offer this. Its also pretty affordable, with a wide range of choices at around £40:

Crucial 512 MB DDR PC2700 CAS2.5 (512 MB, 166 MHz)
Crucial 512 MB DDR PC3200 CAS3 (512 MB, 200 MHz)

Serious Gamers - If you want excellent gaming performance even on high settings, 1 GB RAM will do the job, as long as it has a graphics card to complement it. Having 1 GB of RAM will be increasingly useful in the future, as it is recommended to have at least 1 GB RAM to take full advantage of what Windows Vista has to offer. So, for great quality and value RAM for serious gamers, at around £70-£100 take a look at:

Crucial 1GB DDR PC3200 CAS3 (1 GB, 200 MHz)
Mushkin 1 GB DDR XP3200 (1 GB, 400 MHz)

Extreme Gamers - To allow your other components such as your graphics cards etc to be used to their full advantage, 2 GB of RAM will easily allow this. This is the best RAM available, though it is expensive at anything from £130-£. Some good choices of RAM for the extreme gamer would be:

Mushkin 2 GB DDR EM 3200 (2 GB, 400 MHz)
Mushkin 2 GB DDR XP 4000 (2 GB, 500 MHz)
Corsair 2 GB DDR2 XMS2-6400C4 Pro TwinX (2 GB, 800 MHz)
08-22-2006, 03:48
Lemur

Re: A Gamer's Guide to PC Components

Not a big fan of ATI's offerings?
08-22-2006, 05:34
Blodrast

Re: A Gamer's Guide to PC Components

Lemur, go to sleep. You are a lemur-father, and have lots of lemur babies, hence you should act responsibly and not spend so much time on the .Org ~;)
Otherwise, they'll get the hook on you and make you a mod/assist.mod here in the Hardware & Software Forum, and you'll have no way out ~D

Oh, right, actually contribute something to the topic...
*scratches head* *engages evasive tactics*
So, Woad Warrior, are you only interested in the Graphics Card aspect, or the whole shebang ? Or you just started with the Graphics Card ?

My interest, to be honest, lies with the more exotic (perhaps) details, which are probably less important too - until you need them.

I'm interested in the SATA vs IDE, for one thing. AFAIK, none has definitely proved itself as the indubitable leader, or the better choice. Is SATA the future?
Maybe, but how "near" is this definite future ?
Is SCSI becoming a price-efficient option for the casual PC owner ?

Hmm, am I hijacking this thread ? That was not my intention. If you folks think this should be a separate topic, just say so, and I'll stop yapping about this.
08-22-2006, 08:45
Woad Warrior

Re: A Gamer's Guide to PC Components

Its really just a beginners guide, don't really need to go into GeForce 6600 GT OS Turbo Cache 256 MB Memory etc. etc...

And I will update it with more stuff later.
08-22-2006, 14:57
drone

Re: A Gamer's Guide to PC Components

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blodrast

I'm interested in the SATA vs IDE, for one thing. AFAIK, none has definitely proved itself as the indubitable leader, or the better choice. Is SATA the future?
Maybe, but how "near" is this definite future ?
Is SCSI becoming a price-efficient option for the casual PC owner ?

There are some definite advantages to SATA over IDE. Discounting bandwiths, SATA rules mechanically. The cables are easier to install and route through your chassis, and the small cables don't block airflow like the PITA IDE ribbon cables. With components getting hotter and hotter, the improved airflow of the SATA cables is a huge plus. You also don't have to worry about the performance hit of having multiple drives on a single ribbon cable.
08-22-2006, 17:57
DukeofSerbia

SATA vs IDE

Quote:

Originally Posted by drone

There are some definite advantages to SATA over IDE. Discounting bandwiths, SATA rules mechanically. The cables are easier to install and route through your chassis, and the small cables don't block airflow like the PITA IDE ribbon cables. With components getting hotter and hotter, the improved airflow of the SATA cables is a huge plus. You also don't have to worry about the performance hit of having multiple drives on a single ribbon cable.

I agree 100%. I have SATA HD and it's faaar away better than IDE (or PATA).
08-22-2006, 19:36
Blodrast

Re: A Gamer's Guide to PC Components

DukeofSerbia: when you say "faaar away better", can you expand on that ?

drone: I see, I hadn't considered the airflow perspective. Thanks for that.
As for bandwidth, I've read quite a few reviews, and they were exactly why I'm saying that my impression is there is no significant difference in performance.
Any thoughts on that ?

And, pardon my ignorance, but why don't you have to worry about multiple disks on the same ribbon cable ?

Thank you.
08-22-2006, 20:42
Shaun

Re: A Gamer's Guide to PC Components

Actually, I think ATI's offerings in the mid to low ranger are very poor. The X850GTO and X850XT are goo cards, but seem to be going for slightly more than their GeForce equivilalnt.
But, however, thier high end offering simply blow nVidias out of the water! The X1900XTX is better than the 7900GTX, and is also cheaper to boot, and the X1900XT is still better than the 7900GTX and is even cheaper than the XTX!
08-22-2006, 21:41
drone

Re: A Gamer's Guide to PC Components

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blodrast

drone: I see, I hadn't considered the airflow perspective. Thanks for that.
As for bandwidth, I've read quite a few reviews, and they were exactly why I'm saying that my impression is there is no significant difference in performance.
Any thoughts on that ?

And, pardon my ignorance, but why don't you have to worry about multiple disks on the same ribbon cable ?

Thank you.

At the moment, I think SATA beats out IDE (I guess PATA is the official term, they are both "IDE") in bandwidth, but not by much. It's probably a wash at the moment, and probably depends on the drives themselves more than the interface.

IDE/PATA cables could connect both a master and slave drive to one cable, and IIRC most PC motherboards had 2 IDE ports. A common config was to put hard drives on one cable, and CD/DVD drives on the other. By sharing a cable, bandwidth contention could occur when accessing both of the drives on the same cable. A SATA cable only supports 1 drive (but motherboards generally have more ports), so there is no cable contention. This was mainly a problem when copying data from one drive to another, or when accessing data on the second drive while your swap space resided on the first.
08-22-2006, 22:51
Blodrast

Re: A Gamer's Guide to PC Components

ok, thanks. I was aware of the issues with the classical IDE/PATA, but I didn't know that mobo's supporting SATA would have more ports.:bow:
08-22-2006, 23:28
drone

Re: A Gamer's Guide to PC Components

I think most MoBos that support SATA these days have at least 4 ports (with SATA RAID support), plus one or two PATA ports as well. Not sure how many optical drives are available in SATA, Plextor has a couple, but I don't think it's that widespread yet.
08-23-2006, 17:18
DukeofSerbia

PATA and SATA

Quote:

Originally Posted by drone

I think most MoBos that support SATA these days have at least 4 ports (with SATA RAID support), plus one or two PATA ports as well. Not sure how many optical drives are available in SATA, Plextor has a couple, but I don't think it's that widespread yet.

New Intel chipsets don't have support any more for PATA. Intel only support SATA and SATA II.:book:

And the new chipset for AMD processors have still support for two PATA drives (actually, only CD/DVD roms and writers use PATA in great majority).
08-24-2006, 20:54
x-dANGEr

Re: PATA and SATA

Just a question..

How do you determine if like 512mb memory are useless for a certain graphics card or not..
08-24-2006, 23:37
Woad Warrior

Re: A Gamer's Guide to PC Components

AAAARRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!! The Guild is telling me there are twelve replies in this thread, why can I only read five of them!!!

Also why do my DST settings keep altering now I have uninstalled Panda

EDIT: Apparently now that I post, I get to see the rest of the posts...
08-25-2006, 11:38
DukeofSerbia

512 mb

Quote:

Originally Posted by x-dANGEr

Just a question..

How do you determine if like 512mb memory are useless for a certain graphics card or not..

512MB in graphics cards are useless. This is proved via 3D Mark and various video games. Models with 512MB are the same as 256MB. Maybe, but only maybe in future some games will use 512MB. And you can always in BIOS add some RAM to graphics card to use them.
08-25-2006, 19:29
Geezer57

Re: 512 mb

Quote:

Originally Posted by DukeofSerbia

512MB in graphics cards are useless. This is proved via 3D Mark and various video games. Models with 512MB are the same as 256MB. Maybe, but only maybe in future some games will use 512MB. And you can always in BIOS add some RAM to graphics card to use them.

I think I'd rather change that to: 512MB graphics cards are almost useless, unless they're equipped with the latest, top-of-the-line, blow-your-socks-off GPU and you're playing at very high resolutions with max detail turned on. Also keep in mind that you can't even buy high-end cards these days without getting 512Mb - there are very few GPU choices where you could pick 256Mb or 512Mb.

That last part "in BIOS add some RAM to graphics card" just doesn't make any sense to me. I've never heard of a contemporary graphics card to which you could add RAM. Yes, you could BIOS flash a big-RAM card to its low-RAM equivalent, provided the manufacturer made both, which would disable half the memory. But to what end? The RAM would still be there, even if it wasn't doing anything. :inquisitive:
08-25-2006, 23:09
Woad Warrior

Re: A Gamer's Guide to PC Components

For some reason, I must post in this thread to see beyond post number 5...
08-26-2006, 17:56
DukeofSerbia

Re: 512 mb

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geezer57

I think I'd rather change that to: 512MB graphics cards are almost useless, unless they're equipped with the latest, top-of-the-line, blow-your-socks-off GPU and you're playing at very high resolutions with max detail turned on. Also keep in mind that you can't even buy high-end cards these days without getting 512Mb - there are very few GPU choices where you could pick 256Mb or 512Mb.

Agree.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geezer57

That last part "in BIOS add some RAM to graphics card" just doesn't make any sense to me. I've never heard of a contemporary graphics card to which you could add RAM. Yes, you could BIOS flash a big-RAM card to its low-RAM equivalent, provided the manufacturer made both, which would disable half the memory. But to what end? The RAM would still be there, even if it wasn't doing anything. :inquisitive:

You didn't understand me. I will check what option in BIOS is that and then I will post it.
08-26-2006, 19:13
x-dANGEr

Re: 512 mb

Today, I saw a Geforce 7600.. (But there is no such thing as 7600!) with 512 MB DDR2 for 300$.. I can't know if it is pricey because www.newegg.com doens't have it on.

Any thoughts!
08-26-2006, 19:34
Monarch

Re: 512 mb

Probably way off topic, but just wondering how you can tell if you have say 2x512mg RAM sticks or just 1gig of RAM stick. If I do ever upgrade my pc (I'm going to wait to see how it handles m2tw, if its struggling I'll upgrade), I can only afford to upgrade ram (I currently have a gig, il upgrade to 1 and a half gig). So I'm a total novice at these sorts of things and it'll be a job of giving my pc to a local pc shop, and telling them what to upgrade, but if I have 2x512mg then I'll have to add a stick of a gig right? (assuming theres only two "slots", which i guess there is, again im a total novice with hardware) but if I have just 1x1024 then I'll only need to add a stick of 512mg which is obviously cheaper, but it'll have the same effect. (so I'm hoping iv just got 1 stick of a gig). I have no idea if those "calculations" lol there mroe like complete guesses, are correct, please correct me!

But ye, how do I tell, without taking my pc apart, if I have 2x512 or 1x1024
08-26-2006, 23:20
Geezer57

Re: 512 mb

Quote:

Originally Posted by x-dANGEr

Today, I saw a Geforce 7600.. (But there is no such thing as 7600!) with 512 MB DDR2 for 300$.. I can't know if it is pricey because www.newegg.com doens't have it on.

Any thoughts!

The GeForce 7600 is a fairly new mid-range chip - it comes in two flavors: GS (approx. 400MHz core clock) and GT (560-590MHz core clock). It features a 12-pipeline architecture, with a 128-bit memory interface - which sounds bad, except the memory frequencies tend to be quite high. This makes up somewhat for the narrower bus.

Prices for the GS versions start under $100 (about $135 and up w/ 512Mb RAM). The GT's start around $160 w/ 256Mb - I couldn't find any listed with 512Mb yet, but that will surely come soon.

The buzz in various forums is the the 7600GT is a great card for its price, the AGP version beats or nearly equals the 7800GS in most benchmarks, at half the price. The PCIe versions don't even require any supplemental power, and run great in SLI on the proper motherboards.

So I'd say they're well worth taking a look at, if you're in the market for a new graphics card in that price range.
08-26-2006, 23:36
Geezer57

Re: 512 mb

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monarch

But ye, how do I tell, without taking my pc apart, if I have 2x512 or 1x1024

One option is to download (it's free) and install the SiSoft Sandra Lite benchmarking and analysis application from here: http://www.sisoftware.co.uk/index.ht...64&langx=en&a=

The Mainboard Information module in that program will tell you how many memory slots you have, which ones are populated, and with what memory. There are also a ton of other modules to play with, so have fun!
08-27-2006, 14:33
x-dANGEr

Re: 512 mb

Geezer.. I saw it for 300$!!!!
08-27-2006, 18:02
Geezer57

Re: 512 mb

Quote:

Originally Posted by x-dANGEr

Geezer.. I saw it for 300$!!!!

Here's a link to one at Newegg (w/ 512Mb) for $132.99 + $5.64 shipping:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814131019
It's an odd brand, and a GS rather than GT version - so most likely the extra RAM will prove to be pretty much worthless. There's just not enough GPU horsepower there to benefit from it.

Remember, prices on computer hardware are extremely volatile, so what you see one day will not always be repeated on the next.
08-27-2006, 20:29
The Spartan (Returns)

Re: 512 mb

interesting.
im more of a casual-serious gamer and the money it costs is deeply in my range.
08-27-2006, 22:01
Geezer57

Re: 512 mb

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Spartan

interesting.
im more of a casual-serious gamer and the money it costs is deeply in my range.

Well, if you're thinking of a 7600, then I recommend you strongly consider spending the few extra bucks to upgrade to the GT version, over the GS. In the long run, you'll find the investment well worth it.
08-28-2006, 00:26
Woad Warrior

Re: A Gamer's Guide to PC Components

Again, I have to post to see the new posts beyond post 5...
08-28-2006, 10:24
DukeofSerbia

AGP Apperture size

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geezer57

Well, if you're thinking of a 7600, then I recommend you strongly consider spending the few extra bucks to upgrade to the GT version, over the GS. In the long run, you'll find the investment well worth it.

Except Gainward 7600GS wich o/c is faster than 7600GT.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geezer57

That last part "in BIOS add some RAM to graphics card" just doesn't make any sense to me. I've never heard of a contemporary graphics card to which you could add RAM. Yes, you could BIOS flash a big-RAM card to its low-RAM equivalent, provided the manufacturer made both, which would disable half the memory. But to what end? The RAM would still be there, even if it wasn't doing anything.

This is option in BIOS called AGP Apperture size.:book:

AGP Apperture size is the amount of system ram that the cpu allows the graphics card to steal when the graphics card runs out of onboard memory. This is usefull for 128 MB models. I have Radeon 9800Pro and 1 GB RAM. So, in my BIOS AGP Apperture size is 128 MB.
08-28-2006, 13:58
orangat

Re: AGP Apperture size

Quote:

Originally Posted by DukeofSerbia

Except Gainward 7600GS wich o/c is faster than 7600GT.
..........

Wrong. The 7600gs is a wimpy underperformer and overpriced as well.
08-28-2006, 14:55
x-dANGEr

Re: AGP Apperture size

Quote:

This is option in BIOS called AGP Apperture size.

AGP Apperture size is the amount of system ram that the cpu allows the graphics card to steal when the graphics card runs out of onboard memory. This is usefull for 128 MB models. I have Radeon 9800Pro and 1 GB RAM. So, in my BIOS AGP Apperture size is 128 MB.

Currently, am having a lot of problems with running a lagg-less 3 on 3 with GFX set to 0 in R: TW.. (It lags bAAAAAAAAAd!).. I have 1 GB RAM and a FX5200 128MB.. Do you think applying the option you're talking about will help me..? (And.. Is it possible with all PCs, or just with specific ones..)
08-28-2006, 17:58
Geezer57

Re: AGP Apperture size

Quote:

Originally Posted by DukeofSerbia

This is option in BIOS called AGP Apperture size.:book:

AGP Apperture size is the amount of system ram that the cpu allows the graphics card to steal when the graphics card runs out of onboard memory. This is usefull for 128 MB models. I have Radeon 9800Pro and 1 GB RAM. So, in my BIOS AGP Apperture size is 128 MB.

But Duke, this is a motherboard setting for system RAM, and pretty much has nothing to do with the memory onboard the graphics cards. True, tweaking the AGP aperture setting can have beneficial effects in some games on occasion. But, if you go back to x-dANGEr's original post, he was asking about how to tell the impact of 256/512 megs of frame buffer RAM with various GPU chips - so AGP aperture isn't germane to that discussion.
It's no wonder I got confused - in my mind the two would almost never go together on that topic. :dizzy2: Cheers!
08-28-2006, 21:06
DukeofSerbia

Re: AGP Apperture size

Quote:

Originally Posted by orangat

Wrong. The 7600gs is a wimpy underperformer and overpriced as well.

But not the overcloacked Gainward model - http://www.pctuning.cz/index.php?opt...1&limitstart=0

Read test's results.

This is the only one test in Far Cry:

http://www.pctuning.cz/ilustrace2/st...gs/farcry2.png
08-28-2006, 21:13
DukeofSerbia

Re: AGP Apperture size

Quote:

Originally Posted by x-dANGEr

Currently, am having a lot of problems with running a lagg-less 3 on 3 with GFX set to 0 in R: TW.. (It lags bAAAAAAAAAd!).. I have 1 GB RAM and a FX5200 128MB.. Do you think applying the option you're talking about will help me..? (And.. Is it possible with all PCs, or just with specific ones..)

I'm not sure but you can try. The whole GeForce 5xxx series was/is problematic and 5200 is just weak graphics card.
08-28-2006, 22:04
orangat

Re: AGP Apperture size

Quote:

Originally Posted by DukeofSerbia

But not the overcloacked Gainward model - http://www.pctuning.cz/index.php?opt...1&limitstart=0

Read test's results.

The Gainward model is 450/1000 compared to the 7600gt 560/1400. The only way it can be faster is to overclock it even furthur to the extreme which is a very dubious way to review components.
08-30-2006, 21:26
Woad Warrior

Re: A Gamer's Guide to PC Components

Don't mind me, just posting so I can see the new posts...:wall: :wall: :wall:
08-30-2006, 21:28
Woad Warrior

Re: A Gamer's Guide to PC Components

Oh, great! Now I still can't see the new posts. Is this even being posted? Well, its not like you can tell me anyway. GAH!!!:wall:
08-31-2006, 14:15
x-dANGEr

Re: AGP Apperture size

Quote:

Originally Posted by DukeofSerbia

I'm not sure but you can try. The whole GeForce 5xxx series was/is problematic and 5200 is just weak graphics card.

Any idea how ..

EDIT:

So I managed to do it.. I increased the AGP appreture (sp?) to 128 MB. And so, I rised from a FPS of 2 in a 4000 men battle with GFX set to 0, to the FPS of 20-30..