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Greetings all.
I am sorry to ask something that must have been answered somewhere else, but I cannot seem to find the actual answer. I thus have to ask it, how is EB compatible with RTR? I like the sound of EB, but I have just started using RTR (being a historian), and quite like it and would prefer to keep it.
Thanks.
Best wishes; Palle
No, they are not compatible. Your best bet is to have separate installs of them. Either use a mod-swapper, or simply make copies of your original RTW folder and install mods on the copies.
Like with pretty much all full conversion mods, you'll need a separate installation.
We'll have a -mod switch in next build, though.
Thanks for the swift reply. Sad though, have you considered making them compatible instead of a -switch?
Best wishes; Palle
www.ask-vikingekampgruppe.dk
Impossible. Two completely different mods. Just because they're both set in ancient Eurasia doesn't mean they have anything in common :)
Well i know little of modding except for BG and BG II, but since they run on the same basic game engine (RTW), is it not "just" a question of a LOT of work?
Best wishes; Palle
www.ask-vikingekampgruppe.dk
Macilrille, what both RTR and EB do is change the map, alter the unit graphics and stats, change the factions, alter the traits and use scripts etc. All the changes are so wide-ranging, they are mutually exclusive[1]. You can get mini-mods for RTR (I really like the 4TPY one, Metro-Naval etc.). But there ain't anything mini about EB, there really isn't. :laugh4:
I dissent slightly from Eadingas, however, in that I think EB and RTR have an enormous amount in common. Not the specific modifications, but rather the general vision and specific aims of the mods. I can switch between them and it does not feel like a "culture-shock"; it's almost like I am playing the same mod. By contrast, when I load up vanilla RTW, I have to put on the sunglasses, keep my hand hovering over the pause button etc.
[1]You'd have to decide - which faction list do you want? EB or RTRs? Which map? Which unit roster and stats? Which unit skins? Which building lists? Which victory conditons? Which traits? etc etc. Plus the modifications are so interdependent, you'd probably spend an eternity fiddling with it.
Econ: I meant engine-wise :)
/me starts cursing, never content with juste one thing, but in true viking fashion wanting it all NOW!!!
Thanks for the explanations.
Go see some real fighting with swords BTW, at the link I end with, there is a filmclip as well as pics.
Best wishes; Palle
www.ask-vikingekampgruppe.dk
Macil: all it takes is a couple gigs of disk space. You can safely just copy entire RTW folder and install each mod into one.
Well, if you are an historian i think EB is the mod for you, it is still "open" if you pass me the term, and if you are good with english, you can contribute with some description, or with some name buildings, just dont have some prejudice because it dont have the word "Realism" in its title, EB is the most Realistic mod out there, so it is worthy to have its own istallation space in the HD, and believe me im not a fanatic (ive a lot of mods installed on my HD), so i speack for experience, and other mods are ages far away from the EB "realism"... you can even have it installed (without playing) just as an off-line wikipedia of the ancient world...Quote:
Originally Posted by Macilrille
PS (this is not intended to you Palle, but is a general consideration of mine)
I think that a lot of people dont know EB is "The" realistic mod cause the title doesn't contain the word "realism", i just wonder what people could think if they put a subtitle that refers to "realism" or somthink like that...
I have not a fantasy for titles..."EB - the better approximation to the ancient Era, that is possible in a RTW engine"? naaah it sound too much technical...
He he he, well in any search you do you find RTR described as THE realistic mod, perhaps it is older. I quite like it, though it loses the internal struggle between the great men of Rome that RTW sort of tries to touch...
I am a historian indeed, Ma in History and political science (unemployed, Denmark does not need me right now, so should you have a job, let me know;-) ). Speciality is military history, viking-medieval history and Roman history. I am also a viking reenactor, doing martial arts with copies of viking weapons.
In any case, after I tried to install "The First Triumvirate" (which I would dearly like to try), the game crashes, unable to find the skeleton for a spearman. I think you guys have "sold" the EB mod well enough that I will de a reinstall and try that for comparison, I am home from a course ill anyway.
BTW, there should be a leadernamed Gaius Marius for a while before his reforms.
And if EB needs a historian, they can drop me a line on Macilrille@gmail.com (I just love gmail's spamfilter or I would not post it publicly:-)).
Best wishes, Palle, Carpenter, historian and viking line commander.
People are really obsessed with Marius as the be all and end all of Roman reforms. EB will not (regardless that it is impossible) be including a Marius character, our dynamic reforms are based on the economic, military, social reasons for the reforms; coupled with a suitable candidate who has the influence and know-how to institute such reforms.Quote:
Originally Posted by Macilrille
Other than that, sit back and enjoy EB, Macilrille. You will find it very stimulating. Though I don't understand why you think that RTW's three families approach to Roman politics is more suitable than RTR's (and also EB's) approach.
Foot
https://www.europabarbarorum.com/
Take a look at our website and see around if the pages there can help you decide or cause any impressions.
And btw, the goal of EB is not to recreate history exact. There will be no Gaius Marius, but there will be Marian reforms. There will be no Hannibal suddenly appearing.
Take a look at the EB website too. www.europabarbarorum.com
You'll probably enjoy some of the faction histories we have, as well as the general faction descriptions and the unit descriptions we have up too (not all are on there).
edit: bah! you're faster on the draw than me you blasted Norwayer! :grin:
History is complicated and Marius is a suitable figurehead/catalyst for reforms that had been going on since the Punic Wars and only ended later.
What I miss is not the RTW approach but something simulating the struggles for power in Rome itself between the magnates. Much of Rome's expansion in the late republic was in fact due to these military magnates and Rome was farfrom a unified power internally though to the rest of the world it looked as such. RTW sort of simulates that in a primitive way that RTR at least does not, and I miss something that simulates the cutthroat Roman power politics. Perhaps I roleplay too much;-)
Best wishes; Palle
Take a look at the traits in EB. They are more complex by far than any other mod for RTW. Everything is more complex :grin: If you like to roleplay with your generals, there is no better mod to do it with than EB.
I dislike carrying a banner for the competition, but RTR 6 has a unified rome. RTR 7 will have a counter faction, thus allowing a somewhat better simulation of the later years of roman politics.
EB on the other hand will blow the competition away, and leave your RTR install to crumble under its own dust.
So, while I wait for it to unpack itself. Where do I find more historical battle scenarios, campaigns etc.? RTR had a couple of neat campaigns that I would like to try, but was very thin on the replaying of historical battles side of things, only having Cynoscephalae and Magnesia. I LIKE replaying historical battles and I would love to start a campaign game in the Late Republic, etc...
Best wishes, Palle
Currently we are more concerned with the main Imperial Campaign. We do have one historical battle, Magnesia, and I believe that tk-421 is working on some more. Unfortunately all of our resources are going into 0.8 at the moment.
Foot
Why the sunglasses? Does EB and RTR edit the sky, like Archer's sky mod?Quote:
Originally Posted by econ21
My favorite part of vanilla was the civil war, but since it is Roman limited, I only played as the Roman factions, and look forward to playing as others in EB. It is too bad EB couldn't make it so any large empire could splinter between powerful "family" members, though I'm not exactly sure how this would work out completely...Quote:
Originally Posted by Foot
Probably those bright pink pajamas you're so fond of wearing. :grin:
Quite possible. You know these ultra-realistic pink uniforms are why the Parthians were able to exact such a toll on the Romans, they simply could not look directly at them.
Does EB use edited sky textures? I was going to rip out the skies from NTW2...
No, we don't. We had tried using Archer's mod, but it was giving us some CTD's in the middle of battles and we had to abandon that.
That is very odd.
Which leads me back to the original question, why the sunglasses?
The sky in vanilla is terrible, it overbrightens (I don't really know if that is a word...) everyone, I figured that was the reason...
I think you are making rather a big deal out of my rather lame attempt at humour.Quote:
Originally Posted by fallen851
Vanilla RTW units tend to be rather bright and shiny (here's a screenshot from one of my WRE games):
https://img20.imageshack.us/img20/2451/wre848dn.jpg
Realism mods tend to have darker shades (here's one from a Goth mod WRE game):
https://img74.imageshack.us/img74/5316/goth3xt2.jpg
Playing EB now and I kind of like it. It seems everything will progress slower than RTW where 60- 70 years saw you win.
I have noticed a bug though, My Romans fight under Seleucid banners, get Hellenistic messages "A building has been completed ... an ornament to any Hellenistic city", and the voice of generals, troops etc is the "Greek/Hellenistic" one from RTW...
Palle
Make sure you also put the 0.74 patch onto the 0.72 build (0.72 is the beta itself - 0.74 is the patch). It's under the patch section under downloads on the website, here:
https://www.europabarbarorum.com/downloads_patch.html
You really don't want to start a campaign in 0.72 - 0.74 is not save game compatible, but it fixes a lot of small problems and a few big ones.
Well I wasn't try to make a big deal, just curious. I guess I didn't realize the difference between the mods and vanilla skins. I haven't played any mods really, but when I installed archers sky mod over vanilla, it made a world of difference (changed the way the shadows worked), so I figured it was the sky and not the skins. I figured EB had edited the sky textures but they looked the same as the original, anyways I'm digging way too deep into this subject...Quote:
Originally Posted by econ21
And By any chance is the RTR Music Add on with a EB instalation? can it be made compatible(let me guess..yes, after some hard work...)
I tried to make the music we released so far work for 074 and ran into a little trouble and gave up. Sorry guys. There probably is a way, but although we have it working fine in our current build, I couldn't figure out what the problem was in to get it going in 074 - or you might have had some of it by now.
:dizzy2: EB is still in a bit too much of a test stage for me, there are too many lacking skins, descriptions, etc., and the voiceset for my romans is still wrong "Yes Strategos!" is just not very Roman... I will be back when it reaches a more finished stage cause it does look cool, but for now I will be on Vanilla or RTR. I am still willing to help out as a historian, but I playtested Chris marinnacci's World in Flames, so I have had my share of playtesting, I want the finished good now. Sorry.
Best wishes, Palle, eagerly awaiting the finished packet.
i think EB is way more fun in it's "unfinished state" thatn RTR..i played both, and prefer EB...and if you don't like unfinished skins and models, you can always rip better skins and models from other mods, into your EB instal...like i did...extensively...as long as i keep the EB in the core is all that matters to me, the realism is still there, but i get eye candy here and there...and if you helped with work and mini mods for 0.74 you could help everyone...:2thumbsup:
It's kind of obvious that EB is still a little unfinished since you are downloading 0.74. The unfinished parts are easily bareable when compared to Nile Egypt, Screaming Women, and Roman Ninja-Masters... that's just me though.
i miss the screeching women...
I miss my Roman Ninja-Masters:shame:
i loved to see the screeching women die, and to see the al mighty roman ninjas die...i liked them..but alas they were a bit too much...
They are indeed, so do not build them, but still... no... the skins, descriptions etc is too much to miss for me. Just as I do not really want to DL skins etc from other mods, I am an amateur with regards to that, so it will be too much work with trial and error before I get it to work. And less than half the building descriptions as German are missing.
What I am still willing to do is to help with my skills as a historian, and I do have some small knowledge of the Danish- Germanic Area during the Iron Age, as much as anyone but the greatest specialist I believe.
Best wishes, Palle Rasmussen
well, if you can write some missing description for sweboz, do it and present it to the team, i think they could be pleased of some help, or just ask them what are the currently missing areas you could help (expecially if you are good in english), cause in 0.8 they could be already done...
anyway i could suggest you to try one of the more finished factions like greeks, ptolemaics, seleucids etc... or an eastern one, in the East you can understand what is the real strong point of EB than other mods, there are nomadic champ, yanCai mercs, it is a real cavalry festival... the skin and the animation are beautifull, the map is large and the town are few... rebels spawning from almost everywere... few resources... a sense of anarchy and uncertainty that never make you feel safe.... i can only imagine what it will be with the bonus of Saka-Rauka and the new skins... no other mods has this strange feeling in the east...
regarding Sweboz, i just saw them as enemy, so i cant say about them, but from what i have saw, there are not comparable skins in other mods, some of the unit i faced with my Greeks, where magnific, i understand why the title of this mod is Europa barbarorum... they have done a great job with the Barbarian faction (especially with sweboz)...i really felt scared when my poor civilized phalangites had to face them, they seem also bigger in the body from what i noticed...
yeah, i think they are taller, especially the champion types.
remember, also, that the unit descriptions and building descriptions that ARE in EB are lightyears ahead of your usual description; in my mind, that more than makes up for the ones that are lacking.
I hate to dig this up, but I was just seeking confimation (so I guess I don't hate digging it up...). Several people in the "unofficial modding forum" have said skymod works in .74 eb at least. Does skymod not work in .80 or was it only tried in .72 or .74 or something?Quote:
Originally Posted by Teleklos Archelaou
Thanks.
I don't remember what version it was that we tried it in, but we liked it - we did want to try to include it. But we clearly got mid-battle CTD's that were not unit related and the only thing we could track it to was the sky changes, so we dropped messing around with that at that time. If people want to make a second copy of their build and try it out, then we would be very happy to hear the results, especially if a number of people tried it out over a long period.
i've put the skymod mod version 1.32 in my EB 0.74, with resources mod, prom's grass, trees from blue lotus, and few other things, and it's 30 years into my campaign with lot's of battles and no ctd....
Nobody, completly nobody who is a historian plays RTR. In someways it more hstorically inaccurate than vanillia RTW. For example RTR has All of the separate Greek Cities in the Eastern Med Unified under one banner (that includes Epirus!). Also the Germanic Tribes and the Gauls are unified like they never were. Also it has a very boring vannila style traits system, no goverments system, no nice new buildings for any factions, no reforms for non-Romans, Carthaginians who control land which they would not have controled and land that they would control is owned by somebody, a smaller and more boring map than EB and finally the Marius reforms happen dynamically at the same time as vannila.Quote:
Originally Posted by Macilrille
Basically RTR is vannila with a AoR, a few new units and skins, two new factions, Baktria and Illyicra (losing two factions at the SAME TIME, Dacia and Britain), a couple of faction changes and a slightly larger map. Really you might as well play vannila!
rtr is not all that bad..sure it's not as good as EB, rtr has plenty of mini mods, that improve RTR, adding lots of new features that are not present in EB...
I like RTR as well, polished and fun, but EB is the master of historical accuracy IMO. RTR is pretty good for the Mediterranean factions but their portrayal of Northern Europe and the East is distinctly lacking in comparison to EB I feel, though in fairness it looks like they're trying to catch up in the next version.
Still, just because you can't use both with one RTW directory doesn't mean that they're mutually exclusive. The only thing stopping anyone from playing both is hard-drive space.
Antagonist
Now that is pretty harsh.Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthius Julius
How is it more inaccurate than Vanilla? How could ANYTHING be more inaccurate than Vanilla?
Remember that RTR 6.0 was made before EB. This is in a time before Scripting was the big thing that could make or break a mod.
Unified Greeks/Gauls/Germans. Okay this is fair enough, it is just one of the hang-overs from Vanilla. It will be rectified in 7.0 AFAIK.
They have an AoR... this is pretty mucht eh equivalent of the Government system. Not anywhere near as good or detailed as EBs, but it serves the purpose.
A FEW new units and skins? What? They reskinned everything, and some of the skins are FAR better than EBs (No offence anyone here). For example their Hastati/Principes/Triarii skins are FAR better than EB's IMO.
The map, while being smaller, is actually better in some ways. They have a better Italy, a better Greece, a better Syria and a better Asia Minor. However, this all comes at teh cost of size.
Personally I love both mods, but the Script is what attracts me to EB.
:laugh4: Anyone see the winning entry in the TWC RTW skinning contest this last quarter? :2thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by CountArach
RTR is about fireworks, eye candy and flashy graphics.
To have an awesomely bad metaphor explain it all, RTR is a crappy beat up car (vanilla) with flames and rims on it. EB is the crappy beat up car without all the flames and rims, but a giant muscle engine in it. It can really go, while RTR is really entertaining. . . for awhile, till it sputters out and dies and you have to call Triple A.
Okay, maybe I took the metaphor too far, but in general I enjoyed RTR alot till I played awhile in campaign, then EB came out and although the skins are less, "omg purty colors" and stuff, its far more appealing to me as a history guy and a strategy gamer.
Ture, but like I said... SOME of the skins are better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teleklos Archelaou
Now THAT is brilliant!Quote:
To have an awesomely bad metaphor explain it all, RTR is a crappy beat up car (vanilla) with flames and rims on it. EB is the crappy beat up car without all the flames and rims, but a giant muscle engine in it. It can really go, while RTR is really entertaining. . . for awhile, till it sputters out and dies and you have to call Triple A.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthius Julius
Quote:
Originally Posted by CountArach
I am very sorry if I came across as slightly erm, one sided and abrupt about EB being way better than RTR and perhaps slightly ignorant and perhaps even stupid, but it is just my opinion. I feel very strong when mods claim to be historically perfect and actually are not and yes maybe I was very harsh. I apologize for that issue if anybody found that offensive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Musopticon?
Oh and responding to Musopticon? who says that I do not "seek good discussion and respect opinions," I do! Just look at the suggestions for EB 0.8 thread. I have said many a time how much I like other people's opinions and ideas and have respected them (and also added a few more good contributions at the same time). I apologize again.
Matthius Julius
Hmm, well. To each his own, to every man his deed.
RTR never claimed to be historically perfect, if someone tells you that, tell them straight out it's a lie. 6.3 is anything but finished, it's more like a skinning job with a new map and AOR. Just wait till 7.0.
EB also has an engine that breaks down all the time... And sorry but RTR isnt all just looks. Try playing EB or RTR in multiplayer and take a guess which one has totally stuffed up unit selection and prices and lots of elite units. While RTR has a multiplayer community that changes tactics every 2 months e.g. everyone thinking cavlry pwned until aliordan and kinghan showed us otherwise so everyone changed tactics again. Also isnt RTW and mods just a game what else is there besides graphics and sounds concidering u just said RTR is better at graphics (and they also have their own music pack ALLREADY relesead) u just proved that RTR is better then EB so concider wording things better next time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zastrow
Also earlier in the thread people were talking about lack of conflict between families being unhistorical. In RTR 7.0 it will be fixed. So next time you make judgements of something stop looking through such a narrow veiwing range. EB has better scripts but thats about it. Simple fact is RTR is way more balanced and it dosent have l33t units so id like to see EB ever attract a bigger MP community then RTR. Also i know of one member in particuler who only turned away from RTR because I beat him in MP and decided to bugger of to EB so just because u hate RTR for one reason or another doesnt meen have to troll about it here. As far as I can tell this community is very quick to point out the problems with other mods and is quick to defend their own mod with things such as "were a beta" etc. RTR is just technologically ahead and will remain that way im sure in 7.0 you will find more and more realistic scripts then in 0.8 anyway (eg celts in macedon).
And on a final note lets talk about realism
things unhistorical in RTR
Greek cities unified
Germany unified
Gaul unified
No revolts for romans
Macedon controlled by macedonians
All fixed in 7.0
Eb unhistorical stuff
An AI with only 1 city can build stacks and stacks of armies
No revolts for romans
Macedon controlled by macedonians
Impossible to build elite units early game even though they were present
Trarii as phalanx pikemen (debateable)
Overpowered units that are impossible to kill
From what it looks like none of these are going to be fixed in 0.8 if anyone would like to add to this list go ahead.
why do ppl only look at graphics in games???? games are not about graphics, games are about the experience players get...that' what game developers forget nowadays, and thats because most new games for consoles and pc, are big loadds of crap, pretty beatiful crap, but crap none the less...look at Oblivion for example, stuningly beatiful crap..Morrowind was more enjoyable and deep, but had less graphs...i feel the same will happen with M2TW..nice graphs, but stupid AI, dumbed down controls for console conversion possibility, and lot less moddable than ppl expect...Eb is way better then RTR cuz it delivers a much more intense, deeper, and enjoyable experience...who needs graphs when you got all that? i played both RTR and EB, and as soon as EB got out, and i got to play, i forgot all about RTR Gold...who needs mp??? i like to build empires at my own pace, and i hate the fast pace of RTR...empires like rome didn't got as they were in 50 years....tehy took centuries... RTR does have some nice skins, although many of them are quite inacurate...he is right, RTR is about Eye candy..EB is about strategy...to me is EB all the way!!!and don't care if a bunch of RTR fanboys say otherwise...i play for fun, and if its acurate all the better...RTR is good a the begining but bores a person to death in about 5 turns..all thos auxilia...whats an auxilia anyway? government system are way more real...and province based recruitment too, the auxilia system, although revolutionary at the time, is way too outdated and inacurate...i prefer to be only able to recruit unit A in province B, and no where else...so as to make specific provinces important, rather than a bunch of them allowing me to recruit unit A...
Face RTR Gold had its time...EB is the new Thing..and let 7.0 Come, i'll try it, but for me 0.74 is way better now, and when 0.8+ comes..RTR is doomed to the history of RTW modding as the first mod that TRYED realism, but EB gets all the awards...if you look out of the modding comunity, most ppl know what EB is, but not all heard of RTR...sorry...
as for the overpowered units who cares if they are? in war there always some units who were tough nuts to crack...and i played with almost all the factions of EB and im still to find an invincible unit, or overpowered...it's true some are tougher than others, but i prefer it that way....take early triarii...they are easy to defeat if you know how...they are tough, but they are supposed to be veterans, and tough guys...they are phalanx? what can it be unhistorical about it? at first the roman armies reflect the greek warfare!! they learned how to fight with the greeks, and the rest of the societies of italian peninsula, who in term learned from the greeks...personally i don't think EB has enough overpowered units, i always liked more, so i ended up riping some models from other mods, like RTR PE AE, ITW, and XGM to bolster the rooster of overpowered units...now nearly every faction as at least a couple of those...and i prefer it this way..
the full stack...how can you say its unhistorical...you're not seeing that although in RTW we can only see one city for province, there were a lot more in each province, everyone providing money, and man for the army of the province, so on city with full stacks is prety real...and besides that, they are rebel factions or foreign factions with foreign economies, and values for things, so the recruitment of a full stack could be affordable...can you just imagine this things and play? oh reality is not imagination...but reality comes into being from the imagination of men...so why do you bother?
Let's not escalate here. As all the fans of both should know, RTR and EB teams have nothing but respect for each other, whatever some of the louder fans might say.
Darkarbiter, you are not really welcomed here... your disgust, bias, or whatever that is, against EB is known. You've made your name famous, now you can leave... not to mention that comparing what you think will be in EB 0.8 with what you think will be in RTR 7.0 isn't really a good way to argue anything, is it? Especially since you have no more idea what's going to be in either than any average fan. So pipe it down.
And you too, iberus, RTR is a known mod, and a good mod, probably one of the best there is, no need to diss it like that.
s i said i played RTR gold, and even tryed RTR PE...but EB delivers a lot more than both of them, i still like RTR, and don't think its rubish, but..EB is far better
Did you know that there is one CTD for EB 0.74? Just one. Everyone here knows how to avoid getting it if they don't want it. Anyway, this is a free and volunteer developed mod - no one makes anyone else download it or play it. Someone doesn't like it? Fine. Just go away.Quote:
Originally Posted by darkarbiter
If you badmouth other people here, remember to look to the timber in your own eye before pointing out the mote in your neighbor's. I'm warning you to take your complaints elsewhere.
This thread has long outlived its original purpose.
Closed.