EB Preview :: Resources

Greetings Europa Barbarorum fans. Today we have another download for you to enjoy!

https://img364.imageshack.us/img364/...ources1wu5.jpg

The 0.8 is getting ever nearer to release (now that holidays are over for most of us :), but in the meantime more and more additions are ready to be given to the fans before that glorious moment comes.

We have decided to release the Resources addon to the 0.74 build. This is almost finished work, though we reserve ourselves the right to change some things come 0.8.

We have seriously reworked Resources for EB, to get that extra "historical immersion" factor. The process was twofold: on one side, we have added new models, ui icons and tooltips. On the other, we have added plenty of resource locations to the campaign map. As a result, we got the map more crowded and full of interesting issues than any other mod :)

You will no doubt be most interested in the graphical side of this update. The man almost singlehandedly responsible for this amazing work is one of our prime modellers, Alin, whose other work includes our siege icon and fleet models that you know already. Several other models are also work of our new modellers, Shifty and Palissa. The idea behind these models (and the tooltips) was to represent the resources in a most realistic way possible (given the game limitations and the fact that it's still, for what it's worth, a game) instead of symbolic fantasy graphics. This is a direction that we would like to move in with all our campaign map models, if engine allows it.

Here are some screenshots to explain what we mean (screenshots quality may vary):

https://img352.imageshack.us/img352/...abiady7.th.jpg

Arabia Felix!

https://img352.imageshack.us/img352/...tainhc5.th.jpg

Island of Tin... and some more tin... :)

https://img419.imageshack.us/img419/...gyptry5.th.jpg

Egypt, the Granary of Rome

https://img322.imageshack.us/img322/...giaejy3.th.jpg

Central Europe ain't that shabby, either

https://img333.imageshack.us/img333/...aliakv7.th.jpg

A thriving greek colony of Massalia

https://img506.imageshack.us/img506/...iliajt7.th.jpg

Fertile volcanic soil of Sicilia

https://img182.imageshack.us/img182/7910/bannerdn0.png

TOOLTIP CONTEST
You will notice that we have new expanded tooltips for the resources in this upgrade. This is where some of you can give us a hand. I have filled some of the tooltips myself, and I'm not very glad of the results - some of these are just copied from wiki, etc. I thought that instead of overworking our staff, I could make a small fan contest: write your own tooltips for resources! The best ones - if they are good enough, and up to our standards - will be included in next build. A tooltip text should not be longer than 150 signs, and should provide historical information about uses of a resource in antiquity.
https://img396.imageshack.us/img396/...ltipca0.th.jpg
The resources are:
Small Precious Metal Mine, Large Precious Metal Mine, Iron, Olive Oil, Wine, Grain, Specialized Crafts, Timber, Stone Quarry, Textiles, Exotic Clothes & Dye, Luxury Goods, Wild Animals, Livestock, Slaves, Tin, Copper, Lead, Amber, Precious Stones, Fish, Salt, Mounts (Camels & Horses), Elephants & Ivory

https://img182.imageshack.us/img182/7910/bannerdn0.png

Also in this preview, we have devised a way to show where on the map are our Unique Buildings:

https://img406.imageshack.us/img406/...nderxb5.th.jpg

https://img182.imageshack.us/img182/7910/bannerdn0.png

Short FAQ:

Q: These resources are great, but won't they put a too heavy load on my graphic card?
A: They might, although we haven't experienced a significant change in testing. We have tried to keep a low amount of polygons in our models, while still keeping the "realistic" look. This is why you should backup your models_strat directory, if things go wrong you can always revert to the vanilla models.

Q: Some of the resource icons appear distorted, hidden in the ground or stuck in a mountainside. Am I doing something wrong?
A: No, you're not. It's RTW engine that's doing things wrong - unfortunately, resources form the lowest underlay of campaign map, and it was either this, or have them all floating above the ground.

Q: I've installed it all, but the resources are still in the old locations
A: The new locations only show up when starting a new campaign. Deleting map.rwm doesn't help, the old coordinates are kept in savegame.

Q: Some of the resources and/or wonder icons are in the water!
A: For wonders, this is intended, as some of them represent straits or other watery features. For resources - please report them, and I'll correct the locations. This is just a graphic glitch and does not affect gameplay in any way.

Q: The installation is causing various bugs, what do I do?
A: Report them here, and I'll see if I can fix them. Make sure you have ALL the files installed, not just models or just txt.

Q: Why do you have little stone circles all over the place?
A: Those are the new unique building markers. From now on, you will know where unique buildings are located in your province, and for the ones we have on the battlemap (the Pyramids, some of the cairn circles, the remains of Babylon, the Colossos of Rhodos, etc.) you can try (though you might not always be successful) fighting your battles close to those markers so that you can have those monuments show up on the battlefield. Before, you had little idea where the monuments were located.

Q: Well, why didn't you make them vary so that they aren't all one thing, and why did you pick that one thing (stone circle) anyway?
A: The engine won't allow it, unless we use up all our resource graphics for them. We decided to basically throw out the effects of one resource and use it as a generic place marker for these unique buildings. We chose the stone circle because it is a type of monument found across our map, from Scotland to Iberia to Armenia to the steppe. If it seems out of place in some locales (Greece, for instance), we understand this too, but for now this is our best option for marking them.

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Installation Instructions:

SIMPLE VERSION:
- Download the pack here
- Unpack it to your RTW directory

COMPLICATED VERSION (w/ backup)
- Download the pack here
- Backup the following files in your RTW directory:
Data/descr_sm_resources.txt
Data/text/strat.txt
Data/text/tooltips.txt
Data/world/maps/imperial_campaign/descr_strat.txt
- Backup this entire folder:
Data/models_strat
- Unpack the zip to your RTW directory

ADVANCED INSTALL (for modders):
- If you have made any modifications to your campaign map, and want to keep it, there is a file called "just_resources.txt" which holds just the resources locations code. Copy it into your descr_strat, overwriting everything between "Start of Landmarks Section" and "Start of Factions Section"

Stir, cool and serve. Enjoy!

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As always, if you have questions or comments, the best place to post them is here, where the EB team is most active:

Europa Barbarorum ORG forum

Europa Barbarorum TWC forum

We give special thanks to Imageshack that provides us with a simple, foolproof, and free way to show you all these pictures each week.

Have a great day!


Sincerely,

The Europa Barbarorum team.

(PS: Sticky, please :)

This is brilliant! I'll download it ASAP!

Looks good I'll check it out after I have my new system together.

Looks neat. Can't wait for .8

anyone else having problems with the download?

hallo i noticed in the sicily pic that lilibeo and messana have some resources now, while in my test install there aren't, how do i upgrade to this official relase from my test installement?

thanks and great work!

You'll have to start a new campaign for the resources to appear in proper places.

ah ok... so my test installement was identical to this? and if i continue my actual campaigns there wont be problems (even if Messana and lilibeo have not resoruces?) thanks.

IIRC, the only thing that was added since the test was new fish icon for UI and some corrections to tooltips :) It shouldn't interfere with saved games in any way, except you don't get the new locations.

ok i will keep the whole think as it is until 0.8, thanks :)

I've been playing a saved game (0.8 build) and they aren't showing up everywhere, but I still had no problems with it. But when I did start a new campaign, they did show up everywhere.

We certainly will have tweaking to do with exact placement of the resources though, so don't worry too much about that yet, this is mainly to show you what they look like and to get placement closer to the final goal.

thanks TA the problem seems to be only in Messana and Lilibeo from what i sayd, while in seems they are resources in the rest of the map, so it is just a small think i can live with...
and as i already sayd, even if just a work in progress think, it is a really great think waiting for 0.8...

this is a really nice touch, improves the immersion factor-esp the tooltips.

just one thing i noticed, when i closed the game after using them, i got a popup error which read: "Generic error- Building level specified does not exist: level 1 of hinterland_precursor2" which i have never seen before.

Very nice! Gives much more life to the map, and now I know where to put my armies so I can see the wonders! :2thumbsup:

They look great!!! Makes the map far more interesting.

All are less than 150 characters, all are historically sound, other than lead, not really sure if there is lead there.

Thank you EB for a fantastic mod. Hopefully I can help a tiny bit for 0.8 to be released.

Here goes

a- Descriptions for EB


Small precious metal mine. Phillip wouldn't be able to fund his conquests if not for gold mines in Macedonia. Bigger is better but every coin counts.

Large precious metal mine. Acropolis was built on proceeds of the silver mine in Lavrio. Precious metals often were a city's main income.

Olive oil is still is one of the best products of the meditteranean, but even more so in the ancient world. Athens built a trade empire on olive oil.

Grain was an imperative need for any would be empire. Rome couldn't survive without Egypt for grain. Without it starvation loomed.

Technically this is the late iron era. Sparta wasn't just brave. It had develloped steel and used it to dominate ancient greece keeping Persians out.

Wine 6 parts and 1 part sea water is how the ancient greeks favored their favorite drink. Pottery was develloped to carry wine and oil around.

Every nook and crany of the Ancient world was a master of specialised crafts, some much more than others. Stone masons of Athens made Acropolis.

In an era of wooden ships and non existent roads, timber became a non sequitur for sea borne expansion and trade. Phoenicia's timber was the best.

To build stone monuments you need stone quarries. Stonehedge was built 385 Km's from its own and every stone had to be carried there.

Egyptian textiles, especially linen to make togas and sails, were very valuable in the ancient world since it had to be handwoven.

Exotic clothes & dye were sought after by women of the ancient world. Porfyra dye, off the coasts of Phoenicia was especially valuable at the time.

Wild animals were the single most dangerous trade item of all, since technically it could bite back. That never stopped Romans, though.

Livestock and meat was scarce in ancient times. That is the reason why Sicily became so higly contested. It had available space for Livestock.

Slaves were something in between tools and domesticated animals. Rome's rise and fall was carried literally on the backs of those people.

Tin was the most obvious reason why Roman legions invaded Brittain. While replaced by Iron, Tin never stopped being used in the era.

Copper weapons were a thing of the past, but not copper use. The best copper mines on that period were located in the island of Cyprus.

Lead was one of the few items that the Barbarians of the North could provide the Roman empire. Many towns were built near lead mines.

Amber could be found in the Baltic sea coast and its trade route towards the Mediterranean was second in imporance only to the Silk Road.

Precious stones, were and are luxurious sought after items. Nubia, India, Scandinavia, and people beyond the steppes traded them.

Fish were and are the basic food source of islands, mostly those of the Aegean, where erosion and farming stripped the land bare.

Salt, be it from salt mines in Germany, or a present from the Mediterranean sun, was invaluable for mainland people and their animals.

Mounts, either horses from Thessaly or camels from Egypt made possible all of the ancient empires. War and trade without them is lost.

Elephants and ivory. Pyrrhus and Seleukus won seemingly lost battles only because of their Elephants. They were found in Africa and India.

Posted also at twcenter.

See, now, this is why there can be no doubt in anyone's mind, ever, that EB is the superior mod of all mods. Of course you all know what an amazing thing this is EB team, and so does everyone reading this preview, but I will throw in my arbitrary appreciation in there anyway. I love you guys. Seriously. The final version of EB is already guaranteed to be my favorite game of all time.

Does this effect gameplay? or is this an esthetical add-on?

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Originally Posted by Djurre

Does this effect gameplay? or is this an esthetical add-on?

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The new resource locations affect the gameplay significantly. Trade is much more important part of the game now.
Models and graphics are just esthetical.

Are the gameplay changes in this patch?

I think that we should change EB's motto:
"No source unread, no file unmodded!"

The resources not only represent what can be traded but also how much can be traded. The more resources in the province the more money you make from trade.

Foot

Woah then Arabia is incredible!

Indeed. If you're able to get your hands on southern Arabia and control its trade, you can say pretty much goodbye to any financial troubles.

Europa Barbarorum never ceases to impress me. If only the games we paid for could have so much attention to detail and care put into them. :no:

Superb work, I shall have to try a Ptolemaic game and go for Arabia! :idea2:

Realy nice preview EB...Keep up the good work:2thumbsup: :2thumbsup: :2thumbsup:

Looking good! A quick question: will the control or loss of a certain resource trigger something? Like: if I have a hughe city near a region which is mainly responsible for the food exports towards this hughe city and the trade route is broken because I lose the exporting region, this will make me see the population of this hughe city collapse too.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tellos Athenaios

Looking good! A quick question: will the control or loss of a certain resource trigger something? Like: if I have a hughe city near a region which is mainly responsible for the food exports towards this hughe city and the trade route is broken because I lose the exporting region, this will make me see the population of this hughe city collapse too.

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No, RTW does not work out trade like that. The only thing you will lose is money.

Foot

In the particular case of grain, RTW did work trade out like that. The resource contributes both to trade income and population growth, (called Food Imports, even in the grain exporting region :inquisitive:), of an area around the resource (generally a few regions). So maybe you could maintain that possibility with the grain resource?

really? i had no idea it could do that, sounds pretty cool. i gotta pay more attention to the trade scroll.

ps--i love the new stuff, it looks real nice (sure there's a few that need to be replaced so they aren't sitting on rivers etc, but for the most part i like em). i wanna start a new campaign to enjoy the resources, but if we'll have .8 in a couple of weeks, i wouldn't wanna bother with a new .74 campaign...

...any help, eb devs?

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Originally Posted by Zastrow

Europa Barbarorum never ceases to impress me. If only the games we paid for could have so much attention to detail and care put into them. :no:

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If CA was to produce something like this then they'd need to pay everyone involved for their time. That kind of proposition is pretty unattractive to whoever controls the pursestrings - sadly the "extremely picky military historical geek" is still a fairly small component of their target market and I suspect that the suits have all sorts of statistics that say that spending to increase the level of detail will cost more than the increase in profit brought by a relatively small increase in sales.

We should all just be thankful that folks like the EB Team are committed enough to "give it away for free" and turn commercial released engines into precisely what our small market wants.

Will this add onn have any effects other then Physical, Ie: will Egypt be richer, because of the Grain, or will the other places make more money due to the new amount of resources???

Yes:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Foot

The resources not only represent what can be traded but also how much can be traded. The more resources in the province the more money you make from trade.

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this is an awesome addition! something that was always overlooked, something that brings more depth into the game makes it more realistic, turns particular regions into even more important sources of wealth. i always wanted RTW to be a bit more concentrated on micromanagement rather than just pure warfare. in the end its wealth that allows you the wage wars
thumbs up!
thank you

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:dizzy2:

Man u guys are :furious3: AWESOME!!!!!! :2thumbsup:

Look at this, man this is HEAVY! Good one fellas!!!!

Food imports always annoyed me, because I could not micromanage where they went! A terrible affront to a megalomaniac like myself, I must say!

We don't have food imports in EB. Unfortunately, the amount of pop growth added through grain is hardcoded, and it was way too much for our economy model to handle, so we had to scrap that.

Unfortunate indeed, but nonetheless thanks for the reply.

After playing with the new reasources as Carthage (wanted to see the affects on a trading-empire), I am incredibly impressed. Not only does it make the map more vibrant and interesting, but it has help brought the feel of a trading empire to Carthage even more. I find myself going after provinces with lots of reasources rather than just blindly marching about in Spain and Africa. Allows you to make your military targets economic targets and build the big ports in provinces with the most trade resources in it to maximize every penny of your trade. Superb stuff. :2thumbsup:

I can't wait for 0.8!! I'm going crazy. :dizzy2:

When I was playtesting this update the first time I started the game I was floored. Without a doubt, the most important thing for me is that you see what would be the several smaller settlements in a province that would have existed. Granted the provincial capitol is your goal for conquest, but it is cool to know that there are other smaller towns in the area other than the fishing village.

EB is the best mod I have played. I want to thank those involved on the project. I find it is very historical and immersive. Easily the most realistic mod out there.


On another note.
It would be great if the final release 0.8 is out before Medieval 2 demo. Since I will be getting that game when it arrives. Will EB's team being doing any mods to it?

Good job! I have not seen a Mod do the resources thing properly until now. Great improvement on the game.

H.

Ah, my favorite region, Massilia, just became even better.

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Originally Posted by eadingas

We don't have food imports in EB. Unfortunately, the amount of pop growth added through grain is hardcoded, and it was way too much for our economy model to handle, so we had to scrap that.

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Now I come to think of it: this is probably the case with slaves too, isn't it?

It is, kind of, but slaves are not as persistent and numerous as grain would (have to) be - they only appear for a short while after a city is enslaved, so it's tolerable. BTW, you'll notice that we've also changed "slaves" into "refugees", to better represent what is actually going on (and to keep in accord with our "expell/enslave" buttons) and given them too a neat new icon :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by eadingas

It is, kind of, but slaves are not as persistent and numerous as grain would (have to) be - they only appear for a short while after a city is enslaved, so it's tolerable. BTW, you'll notice that we've also changed "slaves" into "refugees", to better represent what is actually going on (and to keep in accord with our "expell/enslave" buttons) and given them too a neat new icon :)

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:inquisitive:

Well, tell me if I am wrong but did this mean that you changed the hover discription for the 'slaves'/'refugees' in the settlement details scroll, and maintained the description for the resource? (I assume you didn't call the trade resource 'refugees'...)

There are actually two things happening here: we have a new trade resource, Slave Market, which represents simply that a province was a good supplier of slaves for foreign markets. What has been "slaves" in vanilla, is now a Refugees Camp.

Will you still get the "Enslaved his own people" trait if you send people out as refugees now?

Already said this on TWC but I'll say it again here: utterly amazing work. Makes the EB map look even more beautiful than it already is and is a nice gameplay addition aswell!

Nice work!

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Originally Posted by Trithemius

the "extremely picky military historical geek"

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Don't you just love being one?

Seems every time I start getting close to winning an EB campaign the team releases something to make it an even better gaming experience and I have to gladly start yet another campaign or two or three.

Well done chaps and thankyou!

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Originally Posted by Slartibardfast

Don't you just love being one?

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Yes, yes I do. :2thumbsup:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Slartibardfast

Seems every time I start getting close to winning an EB campaign the team releases something to make it an even better gaming experience and I have to gladly start yet another campaign or two or three.

Well done chaps and thankyou!

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Seconded! I'm increasingly excited by the new stuff that is slated to be in 0.8.

has anyone else noticed how much this affects gameplay? I started up a new campaign as Kart'hadast, and in the first 6-7 years, I've been involved in three major naval battles (each with at least 2 warships per side, the biggest--and last, against Makedon--with a total of 7!), as well as several minor skirmishes (2v1, etc). That never would have happened before. Not to mention the Roman's territories make it rich enough that it wiped the Epeirotes out rather quickly...I probably shouldn't have taken the money to attack them too. Do the resources make Rome over-powerful in the Peninsula? I mean, they generally win there, but usually it takes more than a couple of years.

We really don't know yet. We have not had much longterm playtesting lately with all the changes we've been making. But you never know what will happen around here soon concerning that...

It may be just a random occurence. In one of my latest campaigns, Epeiros destroyed Rome within few decades. Don't forget Epeiros is a bit richer now, too :)

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Originally Posted by eadingas

It may be just a random occurence. In one of my latest campaigns, Epeiros destroyed Rome within few decades. Don't forget Epeiros is a bit richer now, too :)

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Amazing! I've NEVER seen Epeiros defeat Rome...you weren't playing as Epeiros were you?:inquisitive:

But yeah, the naval battles may have been my own fault...I sent my starting fleet east with a couple of diplomats, and got involved with the Epeirotes and Maks in a not-so-genial way. Even so, there are a lot more ships in the sea than there are usually are, and that's a good thing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Teleklos Archelaou

We really don't know yet. We have not had much longterm playtesting lately with all the changes we've been making. But you never know what will happen around here soon concerning that...

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Somebody's bein' mysterious.

i think he is implying that eb is coming out last week just fyi

Dammit i can't believe i cant play EB until v0.8 coes out!:furious3: :furious3: :furious3: ...........btw does anyone know when it will come out (approximately if there isnt an actual confirmed date)??

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Laundreu

Somebody's bein' mysterious.

i think he is implying that eb is coming out last week just fyi

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I was hinting at the playtest notice we posted today actually. :2thumbsup:

Is it just me, or are the Koinon Hellenon filippin' rich now?

Also, I've noticed that Epeiros seems to do much better now. They inevitably get booted off the boot (ha ha), but then turn around and start puttin' the boots to the Makedonians. When I haven't played the KH, I noticed they also managed to hang onto Greece for a while longer.

IIRC, KH were always flippin' rich :) Now they're ridiculously rich ;)

I am playing the Aedui, and managed to not be losing money after only capturing one province. Of course, I disbanded much of my army too, but I am still making much more than before. Now it is 264 BC and I am well on my way to conquering all of Gaul.

Hmm I hope we didn't make it too easy for you guys, or we'll have to rehaul everything again ;)
Although personally I'm glad we got rid of the "click "end turn" for first 20 turns just to start making profit" for some factions, perhaps we've gone too far? What do you think?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by eadingas

Hmm I hope we didn't make it too easy for you guys, or we'll have to rehaul everything again ;)
Although personally I'm glad we got rid of the "click "end turn" for first 20 turns just to start making profit" for some factions, perhaps we've gone too far? What do you think?

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I like how it is, but some areas of the map are now extremly valuable. For example the Nile is incredibly crazy, so Ptolemaioi will never lose ground to the Seleucids. The Romans also become very rich due to that.

Casse is a lot easier and have avoided the problem you mention (Not an altogether bad thing).

Well, Ptolemies have all the right to be extremely rich - they are the "granary of the World" after all. I don't think, historically, they ever had money problems... We are countering that with rebellions and giving them Seleucids as immediate, and powerful, mortal enemies on one side, and strong Carthage on the other... I haven't yet seen Ptolemies become an unstoppable juggernaut, like other factions tend to do..
Rome has become a bit too powerful, IMO, not only because of resources... we'll see about that.

Well, I am only playing on hard, and it wasn't too much easier to destroy the Arverni (I still didn't have enough money to recruit anything). Mainly it just took away the time I spent getting out of debt after destroying the Arverni.

Actually, I noticed that, too as the Aedui. It took no time at all to get out of debt after those Averni dogs had been put down. I must admit, I didn't pay too much attention to how much trade changed things (the incone summary scroll for each settlement), but the economic recovery was noticably quicker.

Note that I did keep the remnants of my starting army. The Aedui/Averni can recover in no time if they disband all the cavalry units, archers (too expensive for their size), Mala Gaeroas hordes, etc. I find disbanding is usually an invitation to the Romani dogs to take your lands, though..

Well, I disbanded some before destroying the Arverni, so I never went into debt. I didn't disband what I had after destroying the Arvarni though. I'm still poor, just not as much as before.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by eadingas

Rome has become a bit too powerful, IMO, not only because of resources... we'll see about that.

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Ah, the eternal problem of RTW: a too powerfull Rome. The reason is, and I think the same for EB, is that they have all too soon acces to units that are way to powerfull for their immediate neighbours. (Why else would Epeiros nearly always have been pushed out of Italy in no time, if not for my diplomacy a.k.a. allying to both?) With EB it's not like in Vanilla, the neighbours simply not having any true elites that can prove a match to those of Rome, it's simply that Rome has acces to them right from the start, whereas their neighbours don't. And so the overall result still is a way to strong Rome.

Also I have noticed the Romani to be extremly rich in comparison to other factions of a similair size: Rome doesn't seem to have much of upkeep costs to pay for. Maybe it's worth limitting the financial support this faction receives from script a bit further?

That sentence may also apply to other factions like the Casse that invariably end up being filthy rich.

Cheaper units for Rome (in Italy) make sense, due to the fact the region was noticeably more densely populated than other areas at the time, giving an advantage in manpower especially clear in the second Punic War. Much like Greece was in its expansionist days.

Well, not having a lot of expensive cavalry to maintain might help as well?

I know that when I play the Romans (which is normally what I play) I rarely have more than two units of cavalry in my stacks (I try to operate two or three of these) and two or so "police detachments" of two cavalry units and a trainee general family member. If I compare this to my Baktrian, Makedonian, or Pahlava (!) armies then the difference is striking.

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Originally Posted by Trithemius

Well, not having a lot of expensive cavalry to maintain might help as well?

I know that when I play the Romans (which is normally what I play) I rarely have more than two units of cavalry in my stacks (I try to operate two or three of these) and two or so "police detachments" of two cavalry units and a trainee general family member. If I compare this to my Baktrian, Makedonian, or Pahlava (!) armies then the difference is striking.

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I must be a Cheapskate 3 then because I hardly ever use any cavalry formations apart from family members maybe its a Seleukid thing it is quite hard to have enough armies being so spread out.

I'd say Romani stats may be too high, and if the Greeks can't recruit pezhetairoi from the start, the Romans probably shouldn't get triarii.

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Originally Posted by Andronikos Kypriakos

I must be a Cheapskate 3 then because I hardly ever use any cavalry formations apart from family members maybe its a Seleukid thing it is quite hard to have enough armies being so spread out.

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Really? Seleukids get some okay cavalry too, don't they? (I have yet to try them...)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Trithemius

Really? Seleukids get some okay cavalry too, don't they? (I have yet to try them...)

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They certainly do they get Hetairoi best cavalry in the game as far as I'm concerned Mad Asabara Persian medium cavalry I'm trying to use them more there not bad but let them get pinned down and they are toast and last but not least Kataphraktoi I have only used them in a custom battle and I wasnt to impressed but I think if I had some time to get used to them they would be a great unit.

My main problem is an economic one playing as Seleukeia I need an army to attack Ptolemaios and army to stop Pontos getting delusions of grandeur an army to put down the rebellions in the east both population uprisings and the straps of Parthia and Baktria and at some point Hayasdan will make a play for Media. I have tons of cash coming in but it is all needed elsewhere and 6 months ago :wall:

I LOVE IT ! :2thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Trithemius

Well, not having a lot of expensive cavalry to maintain might help as well?

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Well, no AI faction seems to use really expensive cavalry except for what they've got at the start of the campaign. I think that is because of the AI loving large but rather worthless (like fully composed of pantodapoi and akontistai) instead of high quality armies: both due to the fact that it takes time and lots of money to build the prerequisited buildings and in the meantime they have spend all of it on infantry units. The only elite units I have so far seen were heavy infantry ones...

So I don't think it's because of the cavalry: it is because of the fact that the non Roman factions have to start everything from (nearly) scratch whereas the Romans don't.

You better get ready for parthia in 0.8 too, they seem to get a lot more interested in giving the seleukids trouble. :grin:

Finally: it makes some sense trying to ally yourself to Parthia playing as KH or any other faction not at war with the Seleukids from the start...

(In my latest campaign they seem to be a little inactive, so far they've got only 3 regions after more than 20 years, and since they have said bye bye to the alliance with Sleukia they haven't done a thing of significance whatsoever.)

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Originally Posted by paullus

I'd say Romani stats may be too high, and if the Greeks can't recruit pezhetairoi from the start, the Romans probably shouldn't get triarii.

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While it may be a bit off-topic, I have a question regarding this very issue. While it is historically correct for the Romans to have access to all three basic army units, (Hastati, Principes, Triarii) should not all of the Successor states as well as the Greeks and Epirotes have access to their high end standard troops (Pezhetairoi, Hypaspists, etc.) as well?

Indeed, should not cities like Sparta, Athens, Cornith, & Pella, not only be cities to large_cities but have a nearly fully developed recruitment and training system? (Though this can unbalance things)

Some of them might be, but the EB team has had trouble with building placement at the start of the game. It was detailed in a thread somewhere.

If you look at it though, the stats for the Roman infantry early in the game are pretty weak compared to what Carthage can field. The Heavy Liby-Phoenician infantry, Elite African Pikeman, and Elite African Infantry are just examples.