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Is this the first screenshot showing the new recruitment pools in action? Anyone know what the 4 unit types are? I see that you can recruit more than 1 unit per turn as well (I think they already announced that)
http://www.g4mers.com/images/previews/shot_22_499.jpg
I belive that the Knight in the bottom is a Nobleman, like the ones you could make in BI, then one of the spearmen is probaly a fedual sergant, and then there is the assasin(well that is my guess) :stupido2:
town militia (obvious), spearman militia (feudal spearman?), spy/assassin, and diplomat
i can see how the population thing works...it appears that you accrue recruitable population over time (maybe, or just as a percentage of total population), but can only recruit a certain number per turn.
Indeed, I agree with Azrael. I believe that the top left is a fueldal seargent, the top right is an assassin or perhaps even a peasant, the bottom left is a plain spearman or town militia (which it suggests in the box), and the botom right is some type of more elite unit or diplomat (I don't know if it is a nobleman, as there is no horse seen.)
If you are concerned about the small unit sizes, look up at the top of the info scroll, it is a minor city, which means that you won't be able to recruit many types of things from there anyway, you will get most of your units from castles.
I am pretty sure this screen shot is from the Tutorial/Prolog (the assumption is that it is the Norman Conquest of 1066, pretty cool eh?)...
As such the unit sizes are default ones, though it looks like they have seen some fighting already (not surprizing as Duke William is in London... :laugh4: )
Given the assumption that this is the tutorial then everthing not not be entirely representative of the Campaign game...
"Recruitment Slots Remaining: 2"
What does that mean?! We can only recruit 2 units a turn?!
That will probably be variable depending on the size of the city. So a large city might have 3 or 4.
They are introducing Recruitment Pools in MTW2. This means that you can't just spam out all elite armies any more. The number next to each unit in the recruitment panel is how many are available to recruit - rather like how mercs work in RTW.Quote:
Originally Posted by x-dANGEr
You can only recruit 2 units per turn in the city of London in this screenshot. You will still be able to recruit units in all your other cities throughout your empire. Remember that in every other TW game you could only recruit one unit per city per turn.
I don't know if you will be able to recruit more units per turn as your cities population grows, or depending on if a city is a castle or not.
Its a very interesting feature and I like it ~:)
Also the fact that it tells you how many turns you will have to wait until another unit of that type is available is a good sign. Adds some credence to the assurances that the AI will be able to use recruitment pools efficiently by sometimes conserving resources to wait for a better unit
I think i remember reading somewhere (please correct me if i am wrong), that castles allow you to recruit larger pools of elite troops, and cities pools of militia troops.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mount Suribachi
Im guessing that the number of units you can recruit per turn, most probably is linked with the population of the castle/city. As they grow, the number of units you can hire increases. I hope that is this the case.
Thanks for pointing that out, never noticed it :2thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbarossa82
Well I think it's not realistic/a minor problem that agents such as spies and diplomats will apparently "cost" a recruitment slot as well, but I acknowledge that I think it's impossible to do otherwise.
in peace you can make diplomacy, in war you can make better armies. no more waste of time for recruitments.. better system, better gameplaying...:2thumbsup:
Very nice.. this will force players to use realistic combinations of troops (no more armies completely made up of one uber unit), and the possibilities for even more realistic mods will be awesome.
I'd say the recruitment slots are tied to the city/castle level.
I was always unsure of the idea now ive seen that screen, i im sort of more sure about it.
Carrying on a point already made by Suribachi, London is displayed in the screen as a minor city, which from while I see it, adds more credibility to the idea that recruitment pools will grow as the city does.
If castles are to be military hubs, then it's plausible that they will have much larger recruitment pools as standard.
The most important of all this to me is that you can muster armies much more quickly. In Rome and Medieval 1 I would recruit from one central set of pronvinces for four straight years to build up a powerful army, big delay. This should let you field an army much more quickly and though it'll lack the uber unit benefit it'll still be in the fight much faster, making conflicts more rapid.
I wonder if retraining is out besides to requip units
How do you mean, Oaty? Aside from refilling a depleted unit with new recruits and giving them better armor/weapons, what else would retraining be used for?Quote:
Originally Posted by Oaty
I think he means if you had 5 depleted units of Varangian Guard, could you still retrain them all in one turn? You could effectively recruit hundreds of elite troops in one turn that way.
Interesting question...Quote:
Originally Posted by Mount Suribachi
I can't imagine they have taken retraining out, I mean it has been in every version. In STW is was still only one unit per province per turn whether it was a new unit of retaining. I can't remember in MTW but in RTW we have the mass retraining of units in a single turn.
At a guess I would say it is unchanged in M2TW but you never know...
If it is still there hopefully the AI will make more use of it now, and if not then it would not be that a bad of a thing in my opinion... We would go back to creating veteren units but combining experienced my depleted units. It makes your veteren units much more precious I think because in RTW is was a good thing to get your veterens stuck in the fight and killed loads of the enemy and casualties did not matter much because of the way in which retraining maintained the experience level of the unit.
It's been stated that Cities will not be able to produce Cavalry or Missile troops.
It think it is a great idea and as long as it is handled well it will certainly make for a much better game.
It's a great feature, But i do hope that the non-missle infantry choices arent the same in both cities and forts
Ah, right. I confess I hadn't even thought of that til now. :blush: I suppose CA could've limited retraining in the same way as recruitment pools, but that's probably getting unnecessarily complicated--particularly for the AI.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mount Suribachi
I highly doubt it. From what I've seen, castles will only be able to train archers and possibly crossbow-type units; while cities will only be able to recruit musketeers, cannon, and other gunpowder units.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maizel
Do you think recruitment pools will be for each individual unit or each type of unit?
Just occured to me because the first column of units each have 3 units availible and the second column each has 1 unit. It might be the case that building say the town militia would also deplete the spearman type unit above it. So you would have militia type units, elite units ect... all built from their respective pools.
Thoughts?
"We can only recruit 2 units a turn?"
Only? In RTW you get one unit a turn. Here for a minor city and with no other information about what effects recruitment pools we see that we can recruit at least 2.
Actually it wasn't there to start with in Shogun, was added in a patch/bf Mongol Invasion.Quote:
I mean it has been in every version.
I kinda liked it better without retraining because you often got stuck with the choice of merging green troops to an elite but depleted unit at the expense of reducing Honour, or fighting with them depleted at the risk of losing the unit entirely.
Actually I guess that is there in RTW with the Mercenaries since at least in RTR, some of the mercenaries are distinctly useful & rare :juggle2:
Can you make an army of just top noch units or do you have a limit of how many units can be produced by that given settlement, i.e. you can only have 3 living units of scot guards?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Underdog687
The assumption at the moment is that the recruitment pool is not linked to existing numbers of troops (though I think that could be a pretty cool mechanisim).
So to get this straight, we have two sets of controls to the number of units.
One is a recuitment pool for each unit type available which once increases over time based on the unit type and possibly the level of the settlement/buildings (in the example image we see 2 turns left until a 4th militia unit is available to recruit, but no mention on how long we have already waited).
Two is the limited number of recruitment slots available at a settlement, which refreshes every turn, based once again on settlement size and type perhaps.
So in the image above, you could recruit 2 militia units this turn leaving only 1 in the pool. So the following turn you could recruit only one,plus one of a different type. This would leave the militia recuit pool at zero, but the following turn that would be incrimented by 1 and you could once again hire one.
Additionally there is also an assuption at the moment that retraining works as before and is not linked to the new recruitment machanisim. Though interestingly that may have a self balancing effect. Assuming that decent sized settlements will have significantly more recruitment slots per turn then you will have to choose between new units and mass retaining (no 8 free slots every turn). There are more free slots for retaining in the smaller settlements, but by there nature this activity will quickly depopulate them. And given that you will be able to pull entirely new armies out of thin air in a single turn, the differential between recruitment and mass retraining is reduced.
Sorry if this is obvious, I was just trying to get it straight, plus it is 0545hrs and I have been at work since 0400hrs!
Production caps, excellent! It would make the mid-to-end game a challenge! But I'm afraid this idea is too late...Quote:
Can you make an army of just top noch units or do you have a limit of how many units can be produced by that given settlement, i.e. you can only have 3 living units of scot guards?
There are 9 slots max for recruiting. In one of the podcasts i have heard the player being able to recruit 4 units/turn at the largest castles/cities (level 5). So level 1 = no units, level 2 = 1, level 3 = 2, level 4 = 3 and level 5 = 4. Being a castle may add 1 to that..Quote:
There are more free slots for retaining in the smaller settlements, but by there nature this activity will quickly depopulate them. And given that you will be able to pull entirely new armies out of thin air in a single turn, the differential between recruitment and mass retraining is reduced.
That leaves 5 or more slots for retraining. Given how retraining works in RTW, I do not think they have changed this. It actually means retraining 20 units will take longer if you are also building 4 units a turn... but you're creating more stacks at the same time: retraining 20 units takes 4 turns and gives you 36 units, effectively doubling the number of stacks you send back into the fray! (cool)
Being able to build 4 units in 1 turn favors the defender (quick defense force if under attack). Retraining depleted units quickly also favors the defender. Both are good things, because the AI will probably on the defensive against us, in general. On the other hand, attacks will be more surprising because of their size, but it will still take some time to recruit 20 men for a stack.
Only as long as you hadn't already depleted the pool ~;)Quote:
quick defense force if under attack
Quote:
Originally Posted by Underdog687
Actually, CA has said there will be limits to each *type* of unit you can recruit per turn, not just an overall cap.Quote:
Originally Posted by sunsmountain
Take a Fortress (the largest castle) as an example. (WARNING! These are just hypothetical numbers I've made up, and probably don't reflect what's in the actual game!) Let's say a Fortress allows you to recruit up to 5 units per turn. From what CA has said, we'd be able to recruit something like 1 unit of Feudal Knights, 2 units of Men-at-Arms, 3 units of Archers, 4 units of basic Spearmen, and 6 units of Peasants.
Let's say I choose that turn to recruit the 1 unit of Knights, the 2 units of MAA, and 2 unit of Archers. I would then have recruited my max of 5 units for that turn. The next turn, there will probably be 3 units of Archers available again, but probably only 1 unit of Men-at-Arms and 0 units of Knights. If I wait an additional turn, however, another unit of Knights will be available again. This is because Archers are pretty common and low-level units, whereas on the other hand Men-at-Arms are somewhat better troops, with Knights being the best of all.
That's my understanding of how the recruitment system will work, anyway. Take it with as many grains of salt as you're comfortable with. ~:)
I think that it will be almost exactly like that, however I don't think that there will be a certain number of that specific unit, I think there will be a certain number of units available of each tech level: peasant, militia, professional, elite. Take for example the Byzantines.
There are the four levels of Archers:
Peasant Archers
Archer Militia
Trebizond Archers
Byzantine Guard Archers
Then there are the four levels of Infantry:
Peasants
Spear Militia
Byzantine Infantry
Varangian Guard
Now lets say that there are an available 8 peasants, 6 militia, 4 professionals, and 2 elite. If you train a Byzantine Infantry then there will be 3 pros left, and if you train a Trebizond Archers then there will be 2 left.
EDIT: and this is the way that I hope it will be, if they gave us specific units available we would have less choice in our army composition, as everyone would train an elite unit as soon as it became available, so every army will end up being the same.
Yeah, that makes a little bit more sense than how I put it. :2thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by the_mango55