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http://www.worstpreviews.com/trailer.php?id=453&item=0
For the movie 300 based on the comic by the same name by Frank Miller. About the 300 Spartans who fought at Thermopylae.
Seems like to be a good enough action movie, maybe not 100% historically accurate or politcally correct :laugh4:
Anywho, don't expect Spartiatai in EB to be like these Spartans.
Wow I don't really know what to say its either going to be really good in a surreal non historical action way (sort of like SG-1 but with blood and no science) or really really really bad.
i'm kinda leaning toward the latter (really really bad)...it looks like it might have been successful in the 80s, as a rock opera for a low quality hair band.
i don't know what to think of it...it looks another alexander movie...a fiasco...i looks a bit surreal...some unreal creatrures....but if in the end it good, i don't care if it0s unhistorical... but for now, i must say the arrow tips look a bit too exagerated, who would use such a thing? its not aerodynamic, and doesn't looks too real...and a movie about what? the massacre of 300 spartans by arrow fire? the would be all dead before they had the possibility of landing the first blow with their swords... the persians slaughtered them with arrows...so i don't see the point of making a movie about spartans...and after all, why do they keep going about with the spartan myth? thebans were like the spartans, but at least didn't sufered so shameful defeats...the spartans lost once to peltasts so..i guess the spartan miss is just unfunded reputation and propaganda...
but let's wait and see..maybe it will be a good movie...
No, the Spartans were certainly worthy of their reputation. They and their allies held out against a much larger force at Thermopylae, and defeated them at Plataea (at which the Spartans again played a critical role), they were the best hoplite force in Greece for a couple of centuries.
Saying they aren't good because of the defeat by peltasts isn't hardly fair: that signalled the end of hoplite supremacy; it could have happened to any unaccompanied hoplite force, and signalled the need for combined arms as cities with inferior hoplites began recruiting peltasts and more cavalry to try to even the balance against states like Sparta.
Forget history, enjoy the movie :) It's a comic book adaptation, not a historical lecture... the comic was cool, and this looks like can be quite an entertaining piece.
i think the superiority of sparta, is no more than propaganda...sure they had good soldiers, but i think the things ppl say they did, are a bit exagerated...the superiority of sparta, is IMO like the superiority of USA, ppl say it in the news, but when one looks closely we see they are not so superior as they say...the sure did have a culture, and the americans do have good equipement, but that doesn't win everything..take the portuguese military forces, internationaly, and to the public, they are not known, as superior, quite the contrary, but in the military competitions the portuguese military rock, it's said by military experts, that our commandoes, and paratroopers, and common troopers are some of the most better trained, being trained in the arsher conditions, and as troops are as best as you can get, and some of our instructors are requested to go and teach in other countries like spain, britain, and france....but due to our small size, and international unimportance, our military forces go unoticed.. the same i feel happened with sparta and thebes, they had good soldiers and all, at the cost of everything that characterized them as hellenic(they were very poor in culture, and art), but some other cities like thebes, that might have been better than them, were eclipsed by all the propaganda that sparta was better....
i don't know the comic...but i do know that frank miller did sin city...and if sin city is an indicative of the quality...well i guess im gonna look for 300.....now all i have to do is find it in a comic store, and buy it...how many issues were there?
ig - you are talking about vastly vastly different things here. Spartans fighting at Thermopylae and Plataea, against Persian armies who invaded Greece and very well might have totally extinguished the Spartans (and Athenians, but certainly not all greeks) is quite a bit different from American armies, be they drafted or volunteer, that are sent by their political leaders to other countries to fight.
As for propaganda, there is something to be said for it, but its not the main reason they were so successful. Being raised in a system that gave them the opportunity to train almost constantly on fighting gives them a big advantage immediately. Their reputation does come into play though - as it happened a number of times that armies would not fight them or fled more quickly if things started going badly against them. People don't pay as much attention to the perioikic armies that fought alongside them too though - they were extremely important as well. Still, they did fight and fight very well, and you can't just chalk it up to propaganda. The biggest battle of greeks vs greeks (till that time - about 390bc) that took place outside of Corinth on the Nemea River totalled about 50,000 greeks on both sides. Sparta and some Peloponnesian allies vs. Athens/Thebes/Corinth/Argos. Both sides hit and the right wings both had success, but the Spartans were much better able to exploit their advantage, wheeling around quickly on the flanks and cutting through the masses of their enemies instead of chasing routers like the Argives were doing on the other successfull flank. Only *eight* Spartiates died.
As for the movie, I would have much much much rather seen Gates of Thermopylae get the go ahead instead of this one.
The Greeks had the best military ideas of the time (we're talking Persian Wars here, not later periods), and Spartans were the best to employ them. Simple as that.
Don't chalk every good thing about antiquity up to propaganda. There's nothing bad in admitting that some people were actually much better warriors than others. In an environment where equipment and tactics are pretty much equal all over - as in ancient Greece - it's morale and training that makes you stand out, and when you're raised and trained from childhood as a professional soldier you will have a distinct advantage over those who weren't.
Not to mention the hoplites were simply vastly superior to whatever the Persian army at the time could deploy. To use a modern comparison, when US Army deploys M1A1 tanks against their enemies, it's not a matter of propaganda that they win every land battle. They really have better troops and equipment.
we don't know if the "really" win the battles...we tend to see only the side the americans want us to see....or are you going to tell me that usa won in irak the first time they went there...i don't think so... but back to topic....
what is this "Gates of Thermopylae" movie? never heard of it? and never heard of 300 in my country...is it out? and the gates movie too?
gates of thermopylae is a novel set around Thermopylae that the film rights had been bought up for it. It has not started production and will probably get shelved indefinitely ever since the 300 started. Who knows though - maybe USA or TNT or someone will pick it up and make a 4 hour miniseries out of it.
Can I just ask: What has this got to do with EB??? Are you putting The Battle of Thermopoly in 0.8 or something?
Once again, Hollywood is ruining a perfectly good story to try and make it "cool."
To me, the story - the REAL story - of the 300 Spartans is one of the greatest ever told. The story of 300 men willing to stand against 250,000 does not need to be made "cool" because its already awe-inspiring.
But, alas, it seems our country is full of too many stupid people that Hollywood feels they must appease. With one swift stroke Frank Miller has now prevented any other movie about Thermopylae from being made for years, if not decades. His use of real Spartan lines - like the one about the arrows - now automatically means that nobody else could use them, because people will think that they're some really cool line that Frank Miller came up with, not fact.
Thank you, Frank Miller, for aiding in the dumbing-down of America.
that's sad. im totally crazy about epics and loved Alex though it was screwed, still liked it. the more epics the better. bring them on!Quote:
Originally Posted by Teleklos Archelaou
i didnt see Sin City so dont know whats gonna come out of 300.
liked the trailer though. has some weird creatures and stuff but the spirit of the Sparta is right in there, screaming out loud.
'SPARTANS THIS IS WHERE WE FIGHT!!! THIS IS WHERE THEY DIE!!!'
Quote:
Originally Posted by Comrade Alexeo
well comarade, americans, and the rest of the world will only get more and more dumbed down by holliwood and the Mass media, if they want to...i love hollywood movies(as well as some others not from the USA) and it's not because of them that i get dumbed down...sure "evolved" societes, are getting more and more lazy, and kids are only getting info and "education" through the tv screen...but there's no need to panic...let them be ignorant, don't you care about them...be an island of knowledge in the ocean of ignorance our world is becoming day by day...worry about yourself not geting dumbed down...you'll see that in time, you'll make private jokes, and feel above the rest of the common folk...and besides, have you never heard that information is power? you have info on something nobody suspects...and that gives you importance above them.. i used to think tv and hollywood were dumbing down humanity, i still do, but now i don't give a damn, cuz i worry about myself, and help others on their way to knowledge when im required, but i don't care if ppl around me prefer to be ignorant.... let them have tendencious news, let them have pop star girlie music, let them have soaps. i prefer dance music, punk rock, and good solid knowledge about the world i live in...
but comrade you are right thanks to this movie we won't see another movie about thermopylae for a long time, cuz those are the rules of the business...today, most directors, and studios make movies for the oscars, and don't care if they are good or not, as long as they are good to get prizes(politically correctness is a requirement)....that's sad that our world is so stupid, but what can we do?
after 300 they could do a good movie about Alesia...or about something historical...or redo quovadis, with realistical blood games, or even a good(read GOOD) Medieval era movie that doesn't focus the barbaric nature of the hundred year war, or the germanic barbarians(crusaders and all those papal fanatics), or the Christian Reconquista of Iberia, who is so far a rich soil for movies but with none made to date by a big studio...
lets just pray this movie is the Thing, and not another alexander, or another troy...let's hope this guys learned somethings with these two failures, and with Gladiator
and what is this new fixation hollywood has with men jumping high in the air(unrealisticly) and atack ppl with swords in mid air??? first the pitt's super jumps of death, and now 300 with something similar? can't they see that it's highly unrealisitical, a veteran would just step away, and extend his sword and impale the Superjumper in his sword????
and what is that fat monster with blades for arms in the trailer??? a boss from quake4? lol lets just hope this movie is great and that this strange looking glimpses have a more or less logic to be there....
CURSE HOLLYWOOD!!!!!!!!
One day I will make a movie about Thermopylae that follows the historical reality, cause like others have said it is one of the most epic amazing stories ever made. And if I do make a Thermopylae movie I will make sure that the EB team has their say in its script and blocking. That's right, EB will rule the world of movies as well as games!
Its a comic book (that uses the cliched version of the battle) to excite us about history. Its a story of superheroes, so I'm not too worried about historical accuracy. In fact it looks quite fun, and i really like the art that has gone into the background and stuff.
Having said that I really don't like the way that Persia always is the evil empire thing I don't like (though its fair enough that they are depicted as enemies, its the moral conatations I don't like). I wish just once Persia was given the respect it deserves, though I guess if more of their literature and written history had survived maybe it wouldn't always be so one-sided.
Foot
i agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Foot
you know i was amazed when visited exhibition - ' Forgotten empire' about Achaemenid Persia in British Museum. it represented so different views form what we used to. i.e. Alexander is not 'Great' but a barbarian who burnt down Persepolis, all stories from ancient Greek literature, that become a classical writing of Western civilization, describing Greek revolts and struggle against Persian oppression not more than some insignificant unrest in a distant part of an empire.
we surely need to see both sides of the coins to be able to come to the most comprehensive and fair conclusions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanit
:2thumbsup: Very well said Tanit! :2thumbsup:
:idea2: EB should rule the Gaming and Historical world! :idea2:
a) its a comic book, its entertainment.
b) I ama stikcer for history as much as the next historian, but let your hair down for a couple hours and enjoy it for what it is.
c) sure, Spartiate supremacy may be overblown by centuries of mythology, but these are always based in some fact, and the Spartan warrior ethos and general culture were the basis for these later imaginings. They certainly earn their reputation for valor.
d) I know youre not comparing the United States armed forces with those of Portugal... :laugh4:
**As an aside, from experiences in both Afghanistan and Iraq Ive had the chance to work with a dozen armed forces of various european and other coalition nations. The only ones I would trust to do anything are the British, and, to a lesser degree, the Canadians. This is from first hand knowledge, working with these soldiers in firefights.
Well, Darius' expedition in 490 BC was a "punishment expedition" to teach the Greeks a lesson for assisting the Ionian Greeks in their revolt. He might have wanted to conquer Greece to secure his western border. For the Persians, Greece was just a insignificant border territory (at first).
And in the years up until the rise of Macedon, the Persians were actively involved in Greek affairs and always managed to turn the citystates against eachother in a way which benefitted Persia.
It was the Greeks of the 19th century who when fighting for independence from the Ottoman Empire, begun calling the battle of Thermopylae and Persian Wars as a time when Greeks saved western civilization and culture from the evil Persians (who were portrayed like the Ottomans).
Curses! I guess entertaining, stylish and imagination are not allowed in your world. It is based off a comic book, not off a historical text.Quote:
Originally Posted by Comrade Alexeo
Edit: And Tanit....no one will fund it and no one will watch it. Movies are for entertainment and to make details up to add to the drama and excitement. You will not be able to make a movie that is perfectly accurate and get people to fund it. Good luck anyway.
a noob question out of curiosity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaknafien
does this have something to do with language barrier at all?
sorry for off top.
we can continue this in PM if you like since its OT, Sarkiss, but a language barrier may be a small part of the problem, however generally no because the majority of officers and non-comissioned officers speak English. Its more from a culture stand-point, less discipline, in both appearance and military courtesy, response to orders, etc. Not to mention the glaring communication and transportation issues some countries militaries have, with sub-standard radios, weapons, very few computers or digital battlefield awareness sensors, and a lack of good off-road and armored vehicles. The planning and rehearsal processes of certain countries I won't mention are deplorable, by the way.
Darius was not evil, or at least not by the standards of the age. The Persians and the Persian empire just stood up for the one thing that most ambitious peoples stood up for in the classical age: Power, glory and wealth to us and us only, brutality to all those who oppose us! Although it was a punishment expedition any faction who had promoted rebellion would have been crushed because they were a threat to sercurity. So lets say the Greeks had a fictional empire that had Dacia in it. if the Persians had promoted rebellion in Dacia the Greeks (particually the Spartans) would have retalliated against Persia.Quote:
Originally Posted by Krusader
Oh this world and it's reliance on stereotypes! What end is it comming to :wall: !!
Either I'm writing bad or you can't read in context. I assume the former.Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthius Julius
Darius wasn't evil no. He had every right to send that expedition to Greece, as the Greeks had supported the Ionian revolt.
And the last paragraph, when I write evil Persians in that context I meant how the Greeks portrayed them. If you have read history you will know the Ottomans were mainly portrayed as evil-doers in Europe, due to the many wars in the centuries before and them being Muslims and when the Persians were shown in the same light, well stereotypes are born.
Not quite the same. The Ionians were greek too though - don't forget that. Not saying that they were all BFF or anything, but still it's a little different to say that the Persians supporting a Dacian revolt from the greeks is like the greeks supporting a greek revolt from the Persians. :grin:Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthius Julius
zaknafien, as a military man you should be aware that equipment is not all in war...sure is a big part, but it's not all, how many times have armies with superior armament and logistics been defeated by enemies they deemed inferior? countless times...look at all mighty Rome...the first times they tried to conquer Celtiberians, lusitans, and the northern peoples of iberia, the parthians, they got shameful defeats, france against the english longbowmen, even in your country it happened(im talking about when you threw out the english)...so don't judge the military by the quality of their equipment, or by the diferent methods they use, they may look sub standard to you who was trained by USA, and got new guns, and high tech equipment, but if they are still used, maybe it still gets the job done...im not a military genius, never were although i got to be corporal during my recruit, and i don't have knowledge of the weapons of your country, but here we use some weapons and equipments that for you are considered sub standard, but nonetheless, if we ever needed to go to war like the USA does, we would not go badly... you should judge other military forces by their results and never by the equipment they use...never forget this...underestimation was always the path to defeat...and you know it...sure many military systems are not as good logistically as the army of your country, and that is a good thing, cuz if they were...well i don't want to imagine the world that way if you get my meaning...i don't fancy war, and inocent deaths=)Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaknafien
now back to topic
the persians are only seen as bad, cuz our view of ancient history is always from a greek/roman point of view...the greeks left more things written so we think the persians are bad, but that might not be true, and possibly the contrary..history is always written by the winners, as bad as it can be... but we can also say that the persians had some unusal social rules, and if m memory serves me, practiced human sacrifice, and other less than ethical activities, from our western cristian point of view...in all wars, there are no evil guys and good guys, evil is always on both sides, even those who say are good, can be seen as evil, cuz many times they liberate other societies out of selfish greed, and we can't forget that, there are always good persons on both fronts..i think the greeks and spartans specialy should not be seen as examples, and pinacles of virtue, and persians as brute barbarians full of vices..i prefer a much more grey view of life, not using absolutes..
Ok mabye I should have said the Persians were promoting a rebellion in this fictional Greek empire in somewhere a bit more Persian like the land just above Armenia, but hey! Similar sort of thing!Quote:
Originally Posted by Teleklos Archelaou
Iberus: Obviously superiority in materiel is not everyhing; I did not make that observation. I am mainly concerned with some countries planning methods and overall military standards, to include profesisonalism, physical fitness, and discipline within both the noncommissioned and comisisoned officer ranks. For example, the Romanian units in Afghanistan in paticular are quite sub-par---they are 80% overweight, over thirty years of age, and are not willing to engage enemy forces in firefights or aggressive operations. Regardless of the equipment they use (which, by the way is awful) it doesn't matter. a British commando armed with an AK-47 and a 1940s era radio will still preform better due to his professionalism, training, and esprit de corps.
On-Topic: It would be interesting to trace the origin of the Spartiate mythos; is it really Achean propaganda spread about? Were they really that much better fighters than the myrmidons, for example? I am not as well versed on Greek ancient sources as I am the Roman...:idea2:
The movie is going to be cool, even better if it doens't have any female characters, since Miller can't write them. At all. Make a man-on-man muscle power movie! Long spears and glistening biceps! Testosterone-rama!
Ahem, I would like to see a miniseries of the Gates of Fire. It was a decent book and took it's history with open and loving arms.
Oh yeah - thanks Mus. Gates of Fire, not Gates of Thermopylae. I never can remember that title... :laugh4:
It's a cool title for a cool book.
I just wished that there'd have been a bit more depth to the characters, none of them really were rememberable. Except Leonidas, but that's to be expected, since he's such a major character.
The book had a good Conn Iggulden-vibe with a some seasoning in the taste of Celtika.
who is the author of this gates of fire? sauron? lol now, seriously, im interested, whom should i look for, to find this book?
I noticed from the video journals on 300, that they are depicting the spartans as practically naked. It's one thing if 300 spartans faced countless overwhelming numbers. That's amazing in of itself. But if they did it without armor? Truly astouding. That an hour or two of arrow fire right at the start of the battle didn't kill or seriously wound every single one of them, shields or not, must have been nothing short of a miracle. Assuming, of course, that they really did forsake armor.
I bought the comic a few months ago, and it's brilliant. Beautiful art and a moving story. To be frank I couldn't care less about the historical accuracy, partly due to the comic being an excellent base for a very entertaining movie, but mainly because the actual battle and campaign are so shrouded in myths and distorted by entirely biased sources that it's an impossible goal to achieve regardless, and is hardly a priority for what will probably be in essence an epic popcorn flick. As long as it focuses purely on the battle and doesn't spend too much time on buildup; what I loved about the comic was the depiction of the utterly selfless sacrifice of the 300 and the brave role played by Leonidas. Again, historical accuracy be damned, the comic is moving in and of its own.
Unfortunately, the trailer isn't working for me. Copyright issues, apparently.
I wouldn't have as much of a problem if there hadn't been a better option out there currently in my opinion that the making of this one scuttled. But I still am not that much of a fan of the "violence is enough of a plot" school of thought. There isn't much of a plot in this comic/movie after all - it's pretty much a paean to slaughter. That's possibly an interesting music video or cheer or sculpture, but for a movie I'd hope for a more complex plot than what I saw in the comic. Anyone looking for any classical justification of this "snootiness" (plot first, FX/CGI last) can take a look at Aristotle's analysis of tragedy (in his Poetics) and what is most important in one. :grin:
Thank you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaknafien
Oh yes, that was a great exhibition. In the book that accompanied it there was a beautiful introductory paragraph to the chapter on Persian administration comparing how Athens and Persia dealt with conquered cities under their control. Persia had a policy of non-inteference (for the most part) whilst Athens crushed those cities who did not accept democracy. The paragraph finished on a small note on how in our times the democratic nations are doing much the same as Athens, forcing democracy through foreign policy and how there is something to be learnt from the Persian model; which indeed there is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarkiss
Foot
It's by Steven Pressfield, but most of the historical work and such was done by experts.Quote:
Originally Posted by iberus_generalis
Look here for further info.
Well hoplites were still an important part of the battlefield when Thebes laid the smack down on Sparta. I think Spartans are overrated by history in general. They nearly cost Greece the war at Platea, and of course their defeat to Thebes doesn't bode well for them either.Quote:
Originally Posted by paullus
Still I expect an overpowered Spartan in EB.
ugh.. i really dont want to have to type out responses to some of the misconceptions about spartan history so ill keep it short
1. the spartans were not the only greeks present at the battle. there were 700 thespians as well. there were originally 6000 other greeks there as well from other city states, but leonidas dismissed them at the point the fight would be truly ordained as futile. Alot of the other city states desired to leave as it was, some of the athenians preferring a battle to take place behind athenian walls for example. All heeded leonidas order save the thespians who refused, desiring to stay for the sacrifice.
2. the actualy size of the persian army present there varied by historical accounts anywhere from 200,000 to 1.7 million and herodotus outlandishly claiming they fielded 5.2 million men
3. casualties of the battle range for the greeks at all 1000 killed to the last man to that of the persian sustained casualties which were estimates of 20,000 - 50,000
4. As far as battle etiquitte is confirmed concerning equipment and gear, the spartans present at thermapylae were that of the kings bodyguard and would have enjoyed full access to the best armor available and as such history reports them as having body armor. spartans did not shun armor as a sign of weakness. they did however shun the bow as a sign of cowardice
5. historically what is debated repeatedly is the spartan red cloak. popular belief suggests that it was strictly ceremonial, whereas there are some accounts that the spartans wore them into battle to conceal the blood of their own wounds, wounds that the enemy might take advantage of. Also whether or not
6. Leonidas fought in the second row of the phalanx
7. the spartan reputation back then was as strong as it is today and for good reason. If a man is trained from youth to fight, chances are(damn good chances) that he is going to know something about warfare and how to kill people successfully without dying in the process. This is evident all over the peloponnese with historical accounts of victories with few casualties in alot of battles and with some with the enemies with numerical superiority. the spartan soldier of the time was viewed much as it is today, a courageous discipline, highly trained and motivated raw killing machine. the other city states werent ignorant to the time of day, they knew that sparta was a militaristic city state and therefore some of them hated them.for sure all feared them and most of them respected them. spartans were a pillar of inspiration at the time of thermapylae and this can be seen in the athenians decision to appoint a spartan in charge of the fleet, as well as the thespians stand with leonidas's 300 at the battle itself.
8. on the topic of RTW / EB timeframe itself. sparta did see a brief renewal of its legacy when the lycurgan regime was reinstated (i started a thread detailing the history of it. with enough trolling it can be obtained need you know more)
this movie isnt going to be 100 percent accurate, but it still retains its core meaning. the embodiment of courage against insurmountable odds.
Why?Quote:
Originally Posted by fallen851
After seeing the trailer I'm convinced that they've chosen the right direction to take this movie, even if it's not the one I would have preferred. The only negative thing about it is that this probably means that Gates of Fire won't be turned into a movie anytime soon (if ever).
I don't think this won't by far be the worst possible depiction of Thermpopyle that could've been. They decided to make it a spectacular action movie with outrageous combat scenes, lots of blood, and the spartans themselves looking like male strippers. If you try to take that seriously, you're just setting yourself up for disappointment. I think that the worst thing that could possibly have happened would've been a new Troy, or King Arthur. Those movies were truly terrible and as far as im concerned, succeeded neither in delivering enjoyable action, compelling plots, or historical accuracy. Even Alexander, with a renowned director behind it and all the right intentions, turned out to be mediocre at best.
For these reasons, I'd rather see some spectacular mindless violence in a vaguely ancient context than some bland and forgettable movie that can't decide if it want's to be a serious historical drama or just cash in on LOTR-esque CG battles and ends up failing at both.
Look at it from the bright side, at least there's no Brad, Angelina, Orlando, Colin, Kiera etc...
I find Troy quite interesting to use with myth classes (not showing it in class, but often with an extra credit viewing). Most students are horrified when they realize what the movie did. The best is when the few that haven't seen the movie before, but have learned the myths of Troy in the class, watch the film; seeing their jaws drop when Menelaus is killed or when other crazy things happened and then talking about it with them when it's over really makes them appreciate how good it could have been and how much better the story itself is (compared with the movie plot).
very true, I remember the shock when a bunch of people in a classics course I was in went to see Troy together, and Menelaus and Ajax are cut down in the first battle!
...and I've thought about using a bit of the battle set pieces in Alexander, as they're the only film representation of the Makedon phalanx, has anyone considered trying that? I'm not sure it'd be worth it, but its hard to explain the size of the sarissae and how different it was from most other forms of fighting.
One of my reenactor buddies was telling me about how a teacher friend of his got 20-foot-long PVC pipes and had his students use them while trying to march in formation, deploy in formation, etc.
It was apparently the most popular class he ever had.
I'd really want Mel Gibson to direct this kind of movies. He doesn't do an accurately history telling but he's good at directing and he always uses local and historical languages to do the movies, including the simulation of the accent.
I DON'T LIKE GREEKS SPEAKING IN ENGLISH. If this is a movie about greeks then take greek actors, or other actors who know greek, and do it that way. But its just my personal taste.
Look, I like Frank Miller's work. I dug Sin City a lot, and will probably enjoy Sin City 2 just as much. However, it is a tradgedy that the Pressfield novel, "Gates of Fire" was not used to make a movie. It's a superior story in my humble opinion.
I think that the only reason this one is being made is because it's got Frank Miller's name on it. Everyone loved the uniqueness of Sin City and that's why. Pressfield didn't stand a chance. No one outside of historical fiction really knows who he is.
Ho hum....
Good lord. I just watched the preview. I suppose that will have to do, eh? Not going to see this story made as a big budget flick again any time soon.
I hate it when they have synth music to movies about antiquity.
WHY, WHY, WHY!??!
True, but it does have Gerard Butler from Phantom of the Opera. My wife's infatuated with him. So going to see this will be really fun for me! Yes, that's sarcasm.Quote:
Originally Posted by aecp
Edit: Okay, sorry for not editing my previous posts. Here is another trailer:
http://www.apple.com/trailers/wb/300...re5/large.html
I think it is going to be a good popcorn movie. Who cairs if you don't learn some thing from it, it will be fun to wach none the less.
HEY I know this isn't going to be 100% hitorically accurate, but still is going to be preatty darn good.
Oh by the way check out this clip of the trainning the actors had to go through. VIDEO JOURNAL #3 scroll down to watch it.
http://300themovie.warnerbros.com/video_journals.html
(man i am going to adjust my workout rutine just like the trainer says in the video)
OMG!!!!! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
The are putting MARTIAL ARTS in this movie. This is a quote from the STUNT COORDINATOR DAMON CARO: "Historcally there is really nothing... that classifies....there are no records of the actuall tactics that they used... u know the techniques" SO THEY MADE STUFF UP. FILIPINO INFLUENCED TRAINING, THAI, INDONESIAN, JAPANESE, CHINESE, "EVEN EUROPEAN"
AHHHHHHH....NOW I say this movie is going to S.U.C.K (my ******)
LMAO! That is so.... WRONG!Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoSpartan
Yes I know it will. All movies about history/legands based on history generally go a little bit far out and start getting people killed that wouldn't have been and start adding over the top modern bits. Just take Troy for example. The famous Agammendamon (I have no idea how to spell it, but he was the commander of the armies sieging Troy) was killed at the end. According to legend he got home and was poisoned by his wife and his wifes boyfriend. How could he have gopt killed like that and got home alive. Historical\historical legand movies should teach you something. If you see a historical/historical legand movie you very often (particually if you know little about the time period and you are under the age of 16) think that it is historical. So now lots of people are going to be thinking that Spartans were martial arts experts.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoSpartan
Oh what end is this world coming to!!!!!
Yeah, the tale of Troy is veeeery historical.
It's not history but a famous poem and legend. Would you like to see a movie for Kalevala where Vainamoinen (sorry for spelling) was killed in the middle of the movie??Quote:
Originally Posted by Musopticon?
Ok mabye Troy was not a fantastic example, but the seige of Troy DID HAPPEN, but Homer spiced it up a bit by putting a woman with god like beuty in it, a love story and the death of a hero. Actually thinking about it that's exactly what Hollywood is doing with the Spartans. However I still agree that it will be bad influence on under 16's and people that know little about this period. I also agree that Homer's version of Troy is a bad idea too. The story has overwriten the history so now most people think that Mycenaean Greece was all heros, huge walls, woodern horses and women. I just used Troy as an example because it was a popular movie. I have edited my origional post now so it says history and legend.
Why not? Martial arts can mean anything, and various forms of martial arts were certainly known in and around Greece. Heck, one of the EB descriptions of a new unit specifically mentions an example of one. I wouldn't be surprised if in all their training learnt some form of martial arts, standardised stances and moves would be extremely important within a hoplite phalanx to prevent disruption of the lines; it absolutely doesn't have to be the stereotypical wire-floating thing overdone in movies, simply various techniques used within the phalanx to remove a target as effectively as is possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoSpartan
Yes, but Chinese or far Eastern martial arts would not even have been heard of. Nobody really went to the far east till the middle ages. I agree that some form of martial arts would have been used, but not martial arts from the orient!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoffrey S
No, they said they were influenced by martial arts from the east. We know nothing, or very little, of the techniques used in Europe in the period depicted, and considering the fact that most examples of martial arts today can be found in the east it makes sense to use elements from that region to create a new convincing fighting style in 300; the trailer also quite clearly shows examples of this, with fluid moves allowing spartan troops to dodge and hack their way through persian lines. I think it's a non-issue, really.
As is clear from the above, I can now view the trailer. Some bits look great, others a bit dodgy. Sometimes the lighting looks completely off and it looks too obviously like the movie was shot infront of blue/green screens, but in other scenes the distinctive visual style looks beautiful.
I think you veer too far towards taking the epic historically. I am certainly interested anytime a potential link can be made by archaeological discoveries, but Homer didn't just spice it up a bit, as you say. :grin: It's a great story, but you can't pick a single thing out of the Iliad and say that it actually happened. As for the story more broadly, you can try to tie it to a specific destruction layer at Troy, but there's not much more you can do, and even that doesn't provide much detail at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthius Julius
It's not just chance that Achilles' name means "grief to his people", and the first lines of the poem start (thus):
Sing, O goddess, the anger of "grief to his people", that brought
countless ills upon the Achaeans. Many a brave soul did it send
hurrying down to Hades, and many a hero did it yield a prey to dogs
and vultures... :laugh4:
One of my friends was able to get into the 1st private screening. SAys you won't be dissapointed. Says hoplite warfare will be done correctly, the whole 9 yards. *He is a historian and teacher, so he knows what he is talking about*
Oh I don't so. Did u see the Vedio Journal #5???? That stunt coordiographer is a martial arts expert and he Will Put them in. For example, In that video u see the spartans raising their shields above their heads to stab with the spears.Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoffrey S
Yeah so actually this movie looks to be extremely entertaining. Definitely not a "period piece."
Just remember. It's a comic book movie, not a history lesson...which, I think, will be quite obvious to anybody with half a brain who watches it, even the pre-teens.
true, true... the director even says it "Its a comic book adaptation" and Frank Miller said he wanted to make a Graphic Novel of Thermopoly not a Historical account of it.
But still, it bugs me that they are putting South Asian martial arts in this movie.
Not so sure about that. Kids these days....:no:Quote:
Originally Posted by Discoskull
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atreidis
Actually, yes. That would be a lot more believable than going to the hall up high(or whatever the Kalevalan equivalent of heaven was) in a flying boat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fondor_Yards
See, it wouldn't degrade the character. Adaptation happens all the time, it's just stupid to judge anything prematurely.
Thats what I mean. There probably was once some sort of record of the conquest of Troy out there somewhere, but I belive that Homers version of Troy (The Illiad) is probably based on a TRUE invasion of Troy by the Mycenaean Greeks, before the Dark Age of Greece. If I am correct Homers version was written in the Dark Ages (not sure what year, but I think it was in the 700'sBC, during the "Dark Age" of Greece)Quote:
Originally Posted by Teleklos Archelaou
The evidence:
- There is evidence from the site of Troy that the 4th or 5th version of the city was invaded and burnt.
- There is also evidence of a war, but it would not have been about something as silly as a queen, Troy and the surrounding area had lots of bronze and other valuable trade resources.
- Although there is no evidence of this I think that the woodern horse was either a horse shaped battering ram or one with a horse shaped cover.
OR: An earthquake could have caused the walls to fall in (Troy is near a fault line), and if the earthquake had helped the Greeks so much they would leave a statue of the god of earthquakes who was Poseidon. And we all know what form Poseidon assumed in statues...
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
And slightly off topic, this is my 80th post. HORRAY!! ~:cheers:
New HD trailer is up: http://www.apple.com/trailers/wb/300/hd
Two words: armoured rhino...
Anyways, this will either be the most spectacular "ancient battle"-movie ever or unintentionally hilarious. I think it's pretty safe to assume that it won't be mediocre though.
Somehow I missed that rhino in Herodotos' account. Oh well.
:laugh4: :laugh4:Quote:
Originally Posted by Teleklos Archelaou
You cannot imagine my distress upon seeing this trailer.
I JUST designed this thing not even a month ago, a cataphract rhino, for a fantasy-esque story I'm doing.
Here I thought I had something original...
https://img433.imageshack.us/img433/...ctrhinopl2.jpg
@#$% you Frank Miller!
May your genius mind burn in heck...
Oh, and, despite the fact this movie will be the definition of ahistorical, I think I will enjoy it - it's sort of like the super-exagerated-opera version of Thermopolai (sp?).
It will be very pretty, in any event.
Hmmm, I would have much rather have had historical accuracy than amazing special effects.Quote:
Originally Posted by Discoskull
Great minds think alike, eh?
I thought it was damned cool. And hell, if elephants and camels, then why not rhinos?
now that is just too much.... It WAY OFF. :no:
Oh, I'm sure the movie will begin with a disclaimer ( :no: )...and again I say it will be ridiculously obvious to anybody watching that it is in no way historically accurate - it has monsters, war-rhinos, and more than a couple of the Persians have claws.
If any average person with no knowledge of history whatsoever sees this movie and thinks it was all real, then they shouldn't be allowed to breed.
Sure, it would be incredibly awesome if somebody made an accurate epic movie version of Thermopolai (I love period movies, even more than over-the-top action-operatic special-effects extravaganzas), but we aren't exactly talking about the Battle of Zama, are we? It's darn near impossible to make a completely accurate version of this event, from what I've heard and read...and this movie is from a graphic novel.
It will at least be very accurate to the graphic novel, thanks to the success of Sin City. And the artistry of the visuals themselves looks spectacular - it's art.
It is what it is. Just think of it as historical fantasy, if that lessens the pain.
If they were making a movie about the Crusades, and it had monsters, war-rhinos, and ninjas floating around, you can be assured I'd be singing an entirely different tune...maybe...
Myself, I can't wait to sit down with a big bag of popcorn and enjoy the hell out of it. And this is all I will say.
edit: Though I was rather suprised to see a war-rhino :laugh4:
What I'd love hanging over my fireplace: A large scale, 17th century style, oil painting of the battle of Thermopylae, with cataphract rhinos charging, ninjas climbing up the face of the cliff, Superman hovering above and shooting at Persians with lazar eyes, pirates down below in the water, flaming pigs being lit and sent into the mix, scantily-clad amazon horsearchers firing from the edge, and Wolverine in the middle slashing through alongside the Persian immortals.
How could you *not* be the coolest person in the world if you had that hanging in your living room?!
Now THAT'S a bit much...I'll start working on it right away. The only thing I'll add will be war-anacondas. With gold chain leashes. Held by 3-breasted women.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teleklos Archelaou