When organic food goes bad...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Organic spinach appears to be the culprit behind a 20-state outbreak of deadly E. coli poisoning, casting further doubt on greens' claims that "organic is safer."

About 15 years ago, environmentalists set off a scare over the pesticide Alar used on apples. They brainwashed the public into thinking they could die from trace amounts of such chemicals, and the organic movement was born.

Organic growers, including the spinach farm suspected in the E. coli outbreak, use fertilizer made from manure rather than synthetic chemicals. Dangerous bacteria such as E. coli can be found in animal waste. And composting — unlike those "evil" pesticides — doesn't always kill the bacteria.

California-based Natural Selection Foods, the country's largest grower of organic produce, has recalled its packaged spinach throughout the U.S. Its best-known brand, Earthbound Farm, grows the organic spinach found in packaged salad fixings that have become a mainstay of restaurants and supermarkets.

Earthbound's Web site argues that organic farming is safer and healthier than conventional methods using synthetic fertilizers and "highly toxic" pesticides.

"When you choose organic," it says, "you're not only protecting your family's health, you're helping to protect the environment."

Its "earth-friendly alternatives" to chemicals include recycled plants and "sometimes animal waste materials."

You learn elsewhere on the Web site that these materials include chicken manure and "pelletized bat and bird guano," raising questions about the risk of not just E. coli, but also avian flu.

link

So, it looks like "evil" chemical fertilizers would've averted the entire spinach scare that's going on currently, as opposed to fertilizing food with infectious "organic" waste. I'd also like to add that this also could've been entirely averted by simple irradiation. :yes:

I really dislike the whole fuss about organic food, its much more expensive and (this seems to back this up) is only slightly better for health - if someone wants to eat organic food why not make it themselves -

Gah, another reason not to consume organic food, besides the bad taste.

Crazed Rabbit

Sorry to break it to you but I've used horse shite for years on onions, potatoes and carrots and never seen a case of e. coli. The problem is that the crop was not properly cleaned, and that an unclean manure was used. Organicly grown crops taste superior to the uniform sized, bland, tasteless, boring mass produced junk sold in supermarkets.

If someone painted a car with poor quality paint, and that paint peeled off, would you say "never paint cars again"?

The worst e. coli O157:H7 cases have been related to contaminated beef. This is basically a beef problem, not a spinach nor organic farming problem. Your food doesn't need to have the hell sterilised out of it, and sprayed with a pesticides. It's the modern society of sanitised wimps that require this ("omg there's a grub in my lettuce! etc). Also certain bacteria are necessary to proper development and maintainence of the immune system.

Also raw salads are notorious for causing diarrhoea and sickness. Whether organic non-organic or irradiated.

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Originally Posted by Caravel

Also raw salads are notorious for causing diarrhoea and sickness. Whether organic non-organic or irradiated.

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You’re not much of a salesman for raw salad. ~D

The green folk should be talking about what happens to the pesticides and fertilisers when it enters the environment.

Read this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eutrophication

Basically you end up with dead fish and wierd chemicals in the water.

So 173 people have got 157 from spinach that was either not washed properly or was washed in contaminated water .
What did the other 73,000 americans that got Ecoli 157 get it from ?

Leaving the health-related aspects aside for a little bit (not because it's irrelevant, but because it's a much longer and complicated debate than I care getting into right now), there is a HUGE difference in taste between "organic" and non-organic. Huuuge difference.

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Originally Posted by Blodrast

Leaving the health-related aspects aside for a little bit (not because it's irrelevant, but because it's a much longer and complicated debate than I care getting into right now), there is a HUGE difference in taste between "organic" and non-organic. Huuuge difference.

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Freshness makes the biggest difference in taste. I suspect the fact that "organic" farms are small and local as compared to many large-scale producers which ship much further has more to do with their taste than their being "organic".

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Originally Posted by Caravel

The worst e. coli O157:H7 cases have been related to contaminated beef. This is basically a beef problem, not a spinach nor organic farming problem.

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In steaks, it should be a non-issue if they're cooked properly. For burgers (ground beef) it's either well-done or irradiated for me. Unfortunately, irradiated produce and meats are rare due to the scare-mongering surrounding it- in reality, it's perfectly safe.

Lots of non organic foods have growth excellerators so that they are large enough for market before they are ripe. Thus they are picked too early. Or something like that.

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Originally Posted by Xiahou

Freshness makes the biggest difference in taste. I suspect the fact that "organic" farms are small and local as compared to many large-scale producers which ship much further has more to do with their taste than their being "organic".

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Yup, I completely agree with you.

In addition, as far as steaks go, I guess this serves as a bit of a disincentive for people who enjoy theirs rare.

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In addition, as far as steaks go, I guess this serves as a bit of a disincentive for people who enjoy theirs rare.

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But apart from blue what other way is there to enjoy a steak ?

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Originally Posted by Tribesman

So 173 people have got 157 from spinach that was either not washed properly or was washed in contaminated water .
What did the other 73,000 americans that got Ecoli 157 get it from ?

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KFC, Macdonalds, Burgerking.....take your pick.
I urge all to read Fast food nation. You will never eat fast food again.

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Originally Posted by Tribesman

But apart from blue what other way is there to enjoy a steak ?

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heh, I admit I had to look that up...:shame:

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Blue steak is the step below rare in "done-ness" (for lack of a better word). A "blue" steak is very red and cold in the center, while a "rare" steak is red and cool in the center.

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Why, I personally prefer it so well-done that I have to scrape the burnt part off :laugh4:

See, I come to the backroom 'cause it helps me learn new stuff every day. ~;p

I'll eat either type. Fertiliser, manure, blood and bone and the rest I suspect are used on both types of crops... I assume that the issue is with the cleaning process after picking not the growing process beforehand.

BTW slightly OT Xiahou-san... as a coffee connoisseur do you find any of the organic coffees better?

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Originally Posted by Tribesman

But apart from blue what other way is there to enjoy a steak ?

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Hey, a little dose of radiation and you can eat it raw if you want to. ~D

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BTW slightly OT Xiahou-san... as a coffee connoisseur do you find any of the organic coffees better?

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I've ordered certified organic coffee before, but not because it was organic- it was just the particular variety that I wanted to try. I never actually did (or thought to do) a side-by-side comparison , but I doubt it makes a difference.

Someone picking spinach for 2$ an hour took a poop in between two spinach plants and didn't wash his hands. Strawberries anyone?

For anyone who wants to know, blue rare is where the meat is put on the pan on one side for 30 seconds, flipped and done on the other side for 30 seconds and then served.

Absolutely horrifying, it's heated, not cooked. I prefer my steak well done and smothered with gravy.

I like my steak rare, although I'll eat it blue, I don't like it over rare though.

And 'organic' food is just a marketing thing. Proper and responsible use of pesticides still produces the best results, without damaging the environmnet (much more).

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Originally Posted by Xiahou

In steaks, it should be a non-issue if they're cooked properly. For burgers (ground beef) it's either well-done or irradiated for me. Unfortunately, irradiated produce and meats are rare due to the scare-mongering surrounding it- in reality, it's perfectly safe.

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Digging around a bit the only odd thing I can find is the dosage. For example 4500 Gray is often used. And as we're talking about gamma radiation, it's eaqual to 4500 Sievert.
Considering that a local dosage of 100 Sievert causes severe tissue damage (a short term dosage of 5 Sievert will cause lethal radiation sickness), I'm simply wondering how the hell the food is undamaged in the process. :inquisitive:

Can have something to do with the units (Gray = absorbed joule/kg and bacterias are very small) but how to make sure that the bacterias themself get the required dosage while not frying the food?
Weight vs Area scaling?

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Originally Posted by Xiahou

Freshness makes the biggest difference in taste. I suspect the fact that "organic" farms are small and local as compared to many large-scale producers which ship much further has more to do with their taste than their being "organic".

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I'm married to a professional chef. Trust me, the tomatos you can buy in the supermarket are cardboard compared to some of the stuff out there. It's impossible to explain to someone who's never tasted the alternative, but let me be clear -- if you bit into one of the heirloom tomatos, you would think it was an entirely different plant.

There's a lot more to how our food winds up tasting than distance to market.

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Originally Posted by Lemur

I'm married to a professional chef. Trust me, the tomatos you can buy in the supermarket are cardboard compared to some of the stuff out there. It's impossible to explain to someone who's never tasted the alternative, but let me be clear -- if you bit into one of the heirloom tomatos, you would think it was an entirely different plant.

There's a lot more to how our food winds up tasting than distance to market.

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Sure, there's sorting and grading too. There's the average quality stuff that's sold in bulk at the supermarket and then there's the top quality stuff that you have to pay through the nose for that gets sorted out and sold seperately. Then there's the really hideous stuff that gets stewed and put into cans or jars where you can barely tell what it was to begin with anyhow.

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Originally Posted by Xiahou

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Organic spinach appears to be the culprit behind a 20-state outbreak of deadly E. coli poisoning, casting further doubt on greens' claims that "organic is safer."

About 15 years ago, environmentalists set off a scare over the pesticide Alar used on apples. They brainwashed the public into thinking they could die from trace amounts of such chemicals, and the organic movement was born.

Organic growers, including the spinach farm suspected in the E. coli outbreak, use fertilizer made from manure rather than synthetic chemicals. Dangerous bacteria such as E. coli can be found in animal waste. And composting — unlike those "evil" pesticides — doesn't always kill the bacteria.

California-based Natural Selection Foods, the country's largest grower of organic produce, has recalled its packaged spinach throughout the U.S. Its best-known brand, Earthbound Farm, grows the organic spinach found in packaged salad fixings that have become a mainstay of restaurants and supermarkets.

Earthbound's Web site argues that organic farming is safer and healthier than conventional methods using synthetic fertilizers and "highly toxic" pesticides.

"When you choose organic," it says, "you're not only protecting your family's health, you're helping to protect the environment."

Its "earth-friendly alternatives" to chemicals include recycled plants and "sometimes animal waste materials."

You learn elsewhere on the Web site that these materials include chicken manure and "pelletized bat and bird guano," raising questions about the risk of not just E. coli, but also avian flu.

link

So, it looks like "evil" chemical fertilizers would've averted the entire spinach scare that's going on currently, as opposed to fertilizing food with infectious "organic" waste. I'd also like to add that this also could've been entirely averted by simple irradiation. :yes:

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Like I've always stated the "organic" foods are bad, bad for people, bad for the enviroment. Using untreated animal waste as fertilizers is idiotic, cuases food poisoning and causes problems later on when there's runoff from the fields. I'm not saying loading on the chemical's is a good thing but neither is the organic way of growing crops. Not to mention the organic fad has now led to LA banning the transport of treated sludge to farms for topsoil. Current organic food regulations = bad.

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Not to mention the organic fad has now led to LA banning the transport of treated sludge to farms for topsoil. Current organic food regulations = bad.

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yes , best not mention it ....but since you have .
Does that ban have something to do with organic food or is it the various counties taking action to stop the city dumping copius amounts of excrement on them ?
hmmmmm ......solution , ship it to Arizona instead .:juggle2:

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Originally Posted by Xiahou

Sure, there's sorting and grading too. There's the average quality stuff that's sold in bulk at the supermarket and then there's the top quality stuff that you have to pay through the nose for that gets sorted out and sold seperately. Then there's the really hideous stuff that gets stewed and put into cans or jars where you can barely tell what it was to begin with anyhow.

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Xiahou, as a personal favor to me, I want you to find a really good chef, and announce in your most Backroomish tones, "The only factors that affect flavor of food are distance to market, sorting and grading." I would like for you to carry a timepiece, so that we can accurately measure how long the chef laughs.

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Originally Posted by Lemur

Xiahou, as a personal favor to me, I want you to find a really good chef, and announce in your most Backroomish tones, "The only factors that affect flavor of food are distance to market, sorting and grading." I would like for you to carry a timepiece, so that we can accurately measure how long the chef laughs.

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I got a better idea. Go to a nice supermarket and buy the fanciest, prettiest, most expensive non-organic tomatoes you can find. Then, do the same thing with certified organic tomatoes. Slice them up and administer a blind taste test to your wife. Give several rounds of testing and see if she can identify the top-shelf organic tomatoes from the top-shelf inorganic ones. :wink:

I'm amazed that you're digging in on an issue like this. Have you ever heard of heirloom veggies? Have you ever tasted them? Is your entire point that the organic section of the local supermarket is a bit of a rip?

Due to my wife's profession, I've been hanging around various sorts of chefs for years. All I can say is that when it comes to understanding what goes into sourcing really good produce, you're demonstrating the same sort of intellectual zest I'd expect from Navaros when discussing Darwin. You seem to be under the impression that there are effete Yuppies who buy marked-up produce, and smart people who don't. And that seems to be your worldview on the subject.

There's a whole world of methods and means for getting your hands on top-grade produce, and none of them involve the organic section of the supermarket. Pop quiz to see if you have a background in this: Do you know who Alice Waters is? Do you know what seasonal cuisine is? Do you know what New American cuisine is?

Look, if your goal is simply to be disputative, then fire back at will. If you have a genuine curiosity about produce, PM me and we can stop hijacking this thread.

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Originally Posted by Xiahou

I got a better idea. Go to a nice supermarket and buy the fanciest, prettiest, most expensive non-organic tomatoes you can find. Then, do the same thing with certified organic tomatoes. Slice them up and administer a blind taste test to your wife. Give several rounds of testing and see if she can identify the top-shelf organic tomatoes from the top-shelf inorganic ones. :wink:

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That would be too easy; the organic ones are half the size and taste like expensive. ~D


Jokes aside, some of the stuff you can find at a farmers market are very good, not sure how “organic” they are but at least they are semi-homegrown and usually value priced. :bow:

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Originally Posted by Tribesman

yes , best not mention it ....but since you have .
Does that ban have something to do with organic food or is it the various counties taking action to stop the city dumping copius amounts of excrement on them ?
hmmmmm ......solution , ship it to Arizona instead .:juggle2:

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Sorry was in a bit of a hurry to work, didn't realize I hadent really explained it thoroughly (shoulda known tribesman woulda jumped on it, damn been gone awhile.). The law prevents the transportation of treated sludge inside the LA county. The counties and farms around it arnt against it. Sludge/soil is used by most none organic farmers, good way to get rid of the dirt.

'Organic produce... from your toilet to your table.' :2thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Xiahou

'Organic produce... from your toilet to your table.' :2thumbsup:

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Eh, little off there Xiahou, organic food doesnt use sludge. Thus the problem with the contaminated animal fecal matter/fertilizer. More or less its, "Organic produce.... from the cows butt, straight to your gut.".

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Originally Posted by BigTex

Eh, little off there Xiahou, organic food doesnt use sludge. Thus the problem with the contaminated animal fecal matter/fertilizer. More or less its, "Organic produce.... from the cows butt, straight to your gut.".

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That's ok, my first slogan wasnt very snappy anyhow.... something more like "From your toilet bowl to your salad bowl" might've been better. :laugh4:

So you're saying that human waste isnt used as fertilizer? Or that it's not considered "organic" produce when it is used? Cuz Im fairly certain that human waste is used as fertilzer....

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Sorry was in a bit of a hurry to work, didn't realize I hadent really explained it thoroughly (shoulda known tribesman woulda jumped on it, damn been gone awhile.). The law prevents the transportation of treated sludge inside the LA county. The counties and farms around it arnt against it. Sludge/soil is used by most none organic farmers, good way to get rid of the dirt.

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Yes the county concerned has got a law passed preventing the authorities dumping 470,000 tons of **** on it each year .
L.A. is appealing the case since transporting it to arizona makes it damn expensive ****.
The main problem with human waste sludge is industrial discharges into the sewage system .

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Eh, little off there Xiahou, organic food doesnt use sludge.

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Most crops for human consumption don't use sludge . whether they are organic crops or not .

I have heard of Alice Waters but then again I've read Schlossers books. :idea2:

What confuses me when reading this thread is the apparent hostility towards organic food from some conservative posters.

Surely in a free market, all products that can create a market and sustain it are good things. As long as one has the choice to buy junk food or whatever, why is it an issue? Organic producers may have been very successful in using their marketing to convince people to buy their product, but why is this a bad thing?

Even if their claims are thinly supported, I don't see that it's different from, say, the cosmetic industry claiming that some blended petro-chemical slurry makes your wrinkles disappear (research figures derived from a study of three women who agreed that the cheque in their hands made them feel years younger).

What's the beef?

:inquisitive:

What confuses me when reading this thread is the apparent hostility towards organic food from some conservative posters.

Well thats because organic is a liberal hippy issue so it must be bad .....right , but since it is an old traditional method it must be conservative ....right :laugh4: :laugh4:

Hey i mised the edit this morning ....

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So you're saying that human waste isnt used as fertilizer? Or that it's not considered "organic" produce when it is used? Cuz Im fairly certain that human waste is used as fertilzer....

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Now thats interesting , a few basics for ya Xiahou , there are very strict guidlines on what can be classified as organic , human waste can be classed as organic , if the sewage system from which it comes contains only human waste . Can you think of any of the sewage systems that would comply with that (there are several) .
Now you are fairly certain that human waste is used as fertilizer , and you are correct , would you care to hazard a guess as to what categories of crops it is used on ?
yep ...industrial crops and animal feed crops .:idea2: however the animals that are fed those crops can not be certified as organic produce unless the fertilizer in their feed crops is certified as organic .

Wierd isn't it , and remember your problem with human waste is a result of measures taken to stop it getting into seafood (for human consumption) and your drinking water (for human consumption) .
Funny how this excrement all links together isn't it .:2thumbsup:

Yeah, let's direct all our anger and scorn at organic produce! That will solve everything!

Oh, wait, another bag of toxic spinach has been found, and it's not even organic. Ooops. Linky.

But...but what's Popeye going to do now? Eat fava beans? (Well it worked for Dr. Lecture. :laugh4:)

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What's the beef?

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You dry sod. :inquisitive: :laugh4:

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Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost

Surely in a free market, all products that can create a market and sustain it are good things. As long as one has the choice to buy junk food or whatever, why is it an issue? Organic producers may have been very successful in using their marketing to convince people to buy their product, but why is this a bad thing?

:inquisitive:

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maybe because its so much more expensive - noone likes that. (not that i'd know), but i would think a conservative might not mind the market creation thing, but objects to buying outrageously expensive food themselves

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What's the beef?

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:wall:

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Originally Posted by Scurvy

maybe because its so much more expensive - noone likes that. (not that i'd know), but i would think a conservative might not mind the market creation thing, but objects to buying outrageously expensive food themselves

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Are you advocating price controls?

If the price is too high, no-one would buy it surely? Shouldn't the market set the price? Who is forcing conservatives to buy organic food? Is it those pesky Liberal Elites conspirators again?

:inquisitive:

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Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost

Are you advocating price controls?

If the price is too high, no-one would buy it surely? Shouldn't the market set the price? Who is forcing conservatives to buy organic food? Is it those pesky Liberal Elites conspirators again?

:inquisitive:

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i give the Organic food sellers great credit for managing to sell organic food at high prices, the market does set the price - im just saying that i wouldnt buy it myself at such expense --> it interests me that people do :2thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost

What confuses me when reading this thread is the apparent hostility towards organic food from some conservative posters.

Surely in a free market, all products that can create a market and sustain it are good things. As long as one has the choice to buy junk food or whatever, why is it an issue? Organic producers may have been very successful in using their marketing to convince people to buy their product, but why is this a bad thing?

Even if their claims are thinly supported, I don't see that it's different from, say, the cosmetic industry claiming that some blended petro-chemical slurry makes your wrinkles disappear (research figures derived from a study of three women who agreed that the cheque in their hands made them feel years younger).

What's the beef?

:inquisitive:

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I don't understand where being pro-free markets precludes anyone from having an opinion about a certain type of product. I'm disputing the claims made by "organic" food marketers- not calling for a ban or any other government intervention.

What's the beef indeed. :inquisitive:

It's the consumer darling. The old adage applies. The customer is always right. Hey presto capitalism.

Trust me I know, even when the customer is rude, sexist, racist and any other 'ist' you can think of. When you are a businessman and need cash for food, wages, overheads, bloody taxes etc...then the guy who provides that income stream is always right.

:sweatdrop:

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Originally Posted by Lemur

Yeah, let's direct all our anger and scorn at organic produce! That will solve everything!

Oh, wait, another bag of toxic spinach has been found, and it's not even organic. Ooops. Linky.

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Did we know it didn't come from the same farm? The article indicated it was the same area, but didnt mention the specific farm.

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Originally Posted by Tribesman

Now you are fairly certain that human waste is used as fertilizer , and you are correct , would you care to hazard a guess as to what categories of crops it is used on ?
yep ...industrial crops and animal feed crops .

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Class A biosolids (processed sewage) can be used on any crops- even for human consumption. Of course, they're probably safer than composted animal manure anyway- so it's not much of an issue.

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Originally Posted by Xiahou

Class A biosolids (processed sewage) can be used on any crops- even for human consumption. Of course, they're probably safer than composted animal manure anyway- so it's not much of an issue.

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So, does that mean its ok not to wash my hands before returning to work? ~D

I've had plenty of organic foods that either taste the same, or taste worse. Limeade, peanut butter, and milk are some examples. I'll give it all a try, but I'm not going to devote myself to one or the other. I'll buy whatever tastes good; I'll not fall into some fad where people buy things that are more expensive and also taste worse. I haven't studied food safety as a science, so I am generally willing to trust the government, except in obvious cases of contradiction.

And at last the comedy is complete: Spinach Linked to E. Coli Outbreak Was Not Organic, Health Officials Say. Not that this information will sway some Orgah's opinions in the slightest ...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spinach Linked to E. Coli Outbreak Was Not Organic, Health Officials Say

By Deborah Schoch and Mary Engel, Times Staff Writers, September 29, 2006

The nine bags of baby spinach now linked by DNA testing to the national E. coli outbreak all held conventional rather than organic produce and all were sold under the Dole label, state health officials said Thursday.

The nine bags were packaged by Natural Selection Foods at the same facility in San Juan Bautista on Aug. 15, officials said.

"All of those positive bags to date have been conventional product," said Kevin Reilly, deputy director for prevention services at the state Department of Health Services. He added, however, that investigators have not ruled out the possibility that organic spinach is involved.

Nor have investigators concluded that Natural Selection's two processing facilities are clean, Reilly said. The firm said Thursday that all tests inside those facilities have been negative for E. coli contamination.

The outbreak has drawn national attention to organic farming practices in the Salinas Valley, in part because Natural Selection is widely known for its Earthbound label of organic products. But although the bags were sold as conventional spinach, Reilly said he could not say if the nine farms now being probed as potential E. coli sources all used conventional rather than organic practices.

The farms are in Monterey, San Benito and Santa Clara counties. Federal officials are still warning consumers not to eat fresh spinach from the three-county area.

State officials declined to identify the nine farms during a telephone news briefing Thursday, saying that the investigation is continuing. Potential sources could include water, fertilization, domestic and wild animals with access to the fields and poor worker hygiene, they said.

Natural Selection said Thursday that it will work with growers to oversee testing water, soil and other factors. It will also stiffen sanitation protocols for farm equipment, packaging supplies and transportation vehicles.

Company spokeswoman Samantha Cabaluna emphasized a third step: the testing of all batches of salad greens before they enter the facility.

She compared the process to that used in beef processing.

"It is unprecedented in our industry," Cabaluna said. Samples will be taken and cultured for 12 to 18 hours, which will delay processing for nearly a day of produce that typically has a 17-day shelf life, she said. "It's shorter shelf life and high improved food safety," she said.

Natural Selection representatives also said Thursday that for individuals with cases tied to produce it processed, the firm is offering to reimburse all out-of -pocket medical expenses.

They said they want to hear from every individual affected by confirmed cases of E. coli contamination originating from spinach the firm packed.

"It is the right thing for us to do," said Charles Sweat, chief operating officer.

Seattle-based attorney Bill Marler, who says he represents 86 victims in 25 states, called the payment of out-of-pocket expenses "a good first step."

Marler — who has made a career representing victims of food-borne illnesses, beginning with the 1993 Jack in the Box E. coli outbreak — said he has spoken with attorneys for Natural Selection and Dole.

"It's a good thing when a corporation does that early rather than waiting forever," he said. "I encouraged them to do it for everyone, not just my clients, and obviously that's what they've done. And I commend them for doing it."

Cabaluna said Thursday that Natural Selection has decided not to complete the purchase of the former Pride of San Juan processing plant near its main facility in San Juan Bautista.

That plant is where Dole spinach is processed, but the decision to pull back from the purchase is for economic reasons, she said.

"We just don't need that capacity," she said. Natural Selection sales were off about 40% last week, she added.

A spokeswoman for Dole Foods, based in Westlake Village, said that it has a partnership with Natural Selection to provide spinach to be processed at the San Juan Bautista facilities.

Neither Natural Selection nor Dole grows spinach. Natural Selection deals with the growers who provide the spinach sold under the Dole label.

The tally of infected persons rose to 187 people in 26 states, including 134 women and 18 children, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reported Thursday. The strain in question, E. coli 0157:H7, has been isolated from the nine bags marked as baby spinach supplied by patients in seven states.

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Originally Posted by Lemur

And at last the comedy is complete: Spinach Linked to E. Coli Outbreak Was Not Organic, Health Officials Say. Not that this information will sway some Orgah's opinions in the slightest ...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spinach Linked to E. Coli Outbreak Was Not Organic, Health Officials Say

By Deborah Schoch and Mary Engel, Times Staff Writers, September 29, 2006

The nine bags of baby spinach now linked by DNA testing to the national E. coli outbreak all held conventional rather than organic produce and all were sold under the Dole label, state health officials said Thursday.

The nine bags were packaged by Natural Selection Foods at the same facility in San Juan Bautista on Aug. 15, officials said.

"All of those positive bags to date have been conventional product," said Kevin Reilly, deputy director for prevention services at the state Department of Health Services. He added, however, that investigators have not ruled out the possibility that organic spinach is involved.

Nor have investigators concluded that Natural Selection's two processing facilities are clean, Reilly said. The firm said Thursday that all tests inside those facilities have been negative for E. coli contamination.

The outbreak has drawn national attention to organic farming practices in the Salinas Valley, in part because Natural Selection is widely known for its Earthbound label of organic products. But although the bags were sold as conventional spinach, Reilly said he could not say if the nine farms now being probed as potential E. coli sources all used conventional rather than organic practices.

The farms are in Monterey, San Benito and Santa Clara counties. Federal officials are still warning consumers not to eat fresh spinach from the three-county area.

State officials declined to identify the nine farms during a telephone news briefing Thursday, saying that the investigation is continuing. Potential sources could include water, fertilization, domestic and wild animals with access to the fields and poor worker hygiene, they said.

Natural Selection said Thursday that it will work with growers to oversee testing water, soil and other factors. It will also stiffen sanitation protocols for farm equipment, packaging supplies and transportation vehicles.

Company spokeswoman Samantha Cabaluna emphasized a third step: the testing of all batches of salad greens before they enter the facility.

She compared the process to that used in beef processing.

"It is unprecedented in our industry," Cabaluna said. Samples will be taken and cultured for 12 to 18 hours, which will delay processing for nearly a day of produce that typically has a 17-day shelf life, she said. "It's shorter shelf life and high improved food safety," she said.

Natural Selection representatives also said Thursday that for individuals with cases tied to produce it processed, the firm is offering to reimburse all out-of -pocket medical expenses.

They said they want to hear from every individual affected by confirmed cases of E. coli contamination originating from spinach the firm packed.

"It is the right thing for us to do," said Charles Sweat, chief operating officer.

Seattle-based attorney Bill Marler, who says he represents 86 victims in 25 states, called the payment of out-of-pocket expenses "a good first step."

Marler — who has made a career representing victims of food-borne illnesses, beginning with the 1993 Jack in the Box E. coli outbreak — said he has spoken with attorneys for Natural Selection and Dole.

"It's a good thing when a corporation does that early rather than waiting forever," he said. "I encouraged them to do it for everyone, not just my clients, and obviously that's what they've done. And I commend them for doing it."

Cabaluna said Thursday that Natural Selection has decided not to complete the purchase of the former Pride of San Juan processing plant near its main facility in San Juan Bautista.

That plant is where Dole spinach is processed, but the decision to pull back from the purchase is for economic reasons, she said.

"We just don't need that capacity," she said. Natural Selection sales were off about 40% last week, she added.

A spokeswoman for Dole Foods, based in Westlake Village, said that it has a partnership with Natural Selection to provide spinach to be processed at the San Juan Bautista facilities.

Neither Natural Selection nor Dole grows spinach. Natural Selection deals with the growers who provide the spinach sold under the Dole label.

The tally of infected persons rose to 187 people in 26 states, including 134 women and 18 children, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reported Thursday. The strain in question, E. coli 0157:H7, has been isolated from the nine bags marked as baby spinach supplied by patients in seven states.

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Did you read all of your story?

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"All of those positive bags to date have been conventional product," said Kevin Reilly, deputy director for prevention services at the state Department of Health Services. He added, however, that investigators have not ruled out the possibility that organic spinach is involved.

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But although the bags were sold as conventional spinach, Reilly said he could not say if the nine farms now being probed as potential E. coli sources all used conventional rather than organic practices.

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They werent marketed as "organic" but that doesnt mean they werent grown via organic practices, especially since the same farms are under investigation.

Yes, X, and I assume you're referring to this bit:

But although the bags were sold as conventional spinach, Reilly said he could not say if the nine farms now being probed as potential E. coli sources all used conventional rather than organic practices.

I assume that as with the Bob Ney thread, you will hold the line until investigations are completed.

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I assume that as with the Bob Ney thread, you will hold the line until investigations are completed.

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Don't be silly , the line will be held even after investigations are completed :wall: