Schoolgirl arrested for refusing to study with non-English pupils

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A teenage schoolgirl was arrested by police for racism after refusing to sit with a group of Asian students because some of them did not speak English.

Codie Stott's family claim she was forced to spend three-and-a-half hours in a police cell after she was reported by her teachers.

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http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/a...ils/article.do

This just makes me laugh alot.

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Originally Posted by King Ragnar

Wanting to speak English in England is Racist!!!!!

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Not what the story was about.

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Originally Posted by Article

Schoolgirl arrested for refusing to study with non-English pupils

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Not what the story was about either.

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A teenage schoolgirl was arrested by police for racism after refusing to sit with a group of Asian students because some of them did not speak English.

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Misleading. Read the article closely and you find this:

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School insiders acknowledge that at least three of the students Codie refused to sit with had recently arrived in this country and spoke little English.

But they say her comments afterwards raised further concerns, for example allegedly referring to the students as "blacks" - something she denied yesterday.

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so that is the issue

However:

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Last night Robert Whelan, deputy director of the Civitas think-tank, said: "It's obviously common sense that pupils who don't speak English cause problems for other pupils and for teachers."

"I'm sure this sort of thing happens all the time, but it's a sad reflection on the school if they can't deal with it without involving the police."

"A lot of these arrests don't result in prosecutions - they aim is to frighten us into self-censorship until we watch everything we say."

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In almost all schools, incidents like this would be dealt with without involving the police. Arresting the girl was a ridiculous over-reaction.

well, They should not have did that. Why have 1 kid who speaks english be stuck in a group with kids who can't speak hardly any english? Makes no sense. It's Like Sticking a Ant in a Bee's Hive,makes no sense.Teach the Kids English first then.

they shouldnt be allowed in a english school if they cannot speak english at all.

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Originally Posted by King Ragnar

they shouldnt be allowed in a english school if they cannot speak english at all.

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Originally Posted by article

School insiders acknowledge that at least three of the students Codie refused to sit with had recently arrived in this country and spoke little English.

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~:rolleyes:

And here I was under the impression students are here to learn.
Silly me.

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Originally Posted by King Ragnar

they shouldnt be allowed in a english school if they cannot speak english at all.

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where esle are they going to go - they deserve to learn like any other person

The title is misleading, :no:

As far as i can tell the school failed to handle the situation properly, both in making the girl sit next to the non-enlgish speakers, and then by calling the police

:2thumbsup:

Title edited.

A stupid overreaction by the school.

First, to put her in a group that speaks a different language, then putting her in detention all day for what appears to be a very valid complaint, then actually calling the police and having her thrown in a cell for complaining to the teacher about it. And according to the article, they had the police throw her in the cell a week after the incident.

And why? The school claims she referred to the other students as 'blacks'. Is that a crime in England? Enough to get thrown into jail a week after she alledgedly said that? Don't the police have better things to do, like watching scooter thieves ride away and threatening to arrest owners of lawn gnomes?

And what the heck is a "section five racial public order offence"? I guess its 'Politically Correct Big Brother is Watching You'.

Crazed Rabbit

Maybe she pulled a shank and tried to stab someone.

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Originally Posted by Major Robert Dump

Maybe she pulled a shank and tried to stab someone.

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OH SNAP :smash:

The system at it's best. The same thing happened in the US a year or two back. A SIX YEAR OLD GIRL was arrested for being "belligerent" and not wanting to comply with teachers' requests to calm down. This is what happens when the system is built around situations where teachers are too afraid to discipline a child in fear of getting sued by parents.

Is it seriously illegal to be racist in the UK? If so, it could really ruin my "CrossLOPER International Racism Tour Spring 2007". I've been really looking forward to it.

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Originally Posted by CrossLOPER

I"CrossLOPER International Racism Tour Spring 2007". I've been really looking forward to it.

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Where can i get tickets? :2thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Scurvy

Where can i get tickets? :2thumbsup:

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Sorry, sold out. You can tag along in Paris, but after that, you're on your own.

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Originally Posted by CrossLOPER

Is it seriously illegal to be racist in the UK? If so, it could really ruin my "CrossLOPER International Racism Tour Spring 2007". I've been really looking forward to it.

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No, though it is quite severly frowned upon. My school keeps a "Racist Book", of all native (minorities are mostly overlooked except in severe and obvious cases) pupils who seem to have racist tendencies.

I suspect this girl did something more than what she claims. As is always the case... "din't do nuffin" "It wisnae me" et al... For refusing to study with them, she might be in breach of some racial discrimination law...

Double post, oops.

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Originally Posted by Duke Malcolm

No, though it is quite severly frowned upon. My school keeps a "Racist Book", of all native (minorities are mostly overlooked except in severe and obvious cases) pupils who seem to have racist tendencies.

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What about non-native racists? Those exist too.

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Originally Posted by Duke Malcolm

I suspect this girl did something more than what she claims. As is always the case... "din't do nuffin" "It wisnae me" et al... For refusing to study with them, she might be in breach of some racial discrimination law...

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???

So there is or isn't a law? I'm not going to argue about a law that's already in place, but I don't believe that refusing to do a school project is exactly as damaging to society as, let's say, refusing service to a person because you don't like their race or ethnicity.

[QUOTE=CrossLOPER]What about non-native racists? Those exist too.


I suspect the rules would apply to non-native racists aswell

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So there is or isn't a law? I'm not going to argue about a law that's already in place, but I don't believe that refusing to do a school project is not exactly as damaging to society as, let's say, refusing service to a person because you don't like their race or ethnicity.

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It sounds like she did more than refuse to do a school project - ie. quite severe racial language etc.

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Originally Posted by Scurvy

It sounds like she did more than refuse to do a school project - ie. quite severe racial language etc.

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Surely the school can handle some foul language without calling the police.

Hmm. Back to square one...

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Originally Posted by Scurvy

As far as i can tell the school failed to handle the situation properly, both in making the girl sit next to the non-enlgish speakers, and then by calling the police

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:2thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by CrossLOPER

What about non-native racists? Those exist too.

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As I said, minorities are overlooked unless it is an obvious case. I suspect this is to do with teachers trying to help them "fit in".

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So there is or isn't a law? I'm not going to argue about a law that's already in place, but I don't believe that refusing to do a school project is exactly as damaging to society as, let's say, refusing service to a person because you don't like their race or ethnicity.

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Originally Posted by Me

No

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From what the girl says, it is purely because of the language issue, though I doubt a teacher would react as was described. I suspect the girl said something more, ah, racist. In this case, both of your examples may be interpreted as one in this case, depending on what actually happened. The girl may be refusing to do something with them because of their race.

If that makes sense...

[quote=Scurvy]

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Originally Posted by CrossLOPER

What about non-native racists? Those exist too.


I suspect the rules would apply to non-native racists aswell




It sounds like she did more than refuse to do a school project - ie. quite severe racial language etc.

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She called them "blacks" crude and inaccurate, hardly racist.

Children without a good grasp of English should NOT be in mainstream education until they can communicate properly. If they are immigrants then the government should provide that tuition.

She probably said more than that, i doubt even that particular (-ly bad) teacher would call the police for just that, probably that summed up the nature of the racist language

--> mainstream education does provide tuition of english, non-english speakers at my school have seperate after school stuff to teach them, english speech - this should be the same at all english state schools (i don't know if this is the case) --> it would cost the government huge amounts of money to set up specialist tuition schools when it can use existing facilities anyay.

:2thumbsup:

Well this is certainly funny...Even if the girl did use the term 'blacks' yadda yadda yadda, is it a now a crime to not want to sit next to/learn with certain people if you dont want to?

Im a reasonably affluent white male (and student) and I can tell you I would probably feel very uncomfortable if placed with a group of black/asian/whatever students who for the sake of simplicity I shall term into 'urban music' or whatever the hell you call it these days.

So am I now a racist? Am I a hatemonger? I hardly think so.

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Originally Posted by lancelot

Im a reasonably affluent white male (and student) and I can tell you I would probably feel very uncomfortable if placed with a group of black/asian/whatever students who for the sake of simplicity I shall term into 'urban music' or whatever the hell you call it these days.

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I'm from a very multi-cultural area, and am used to integrating entirely with other ethnic groups (especially at school) and i have no problems, however i can understand why others might be, the problem with the incident is that it sounded like the girl then racially abused those she was told to sit next to as opposed to asking her teachers nicely etc.

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So am I now a racist? Am I a hatemonger?

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No your not :2thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Mithrandir

~:rolleyes:

And here I was under the impression students are here to learn.
Silly me.

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Erm, I presume so also. But I think, stick them in a school that they can learn english. I won't like it if a Bunch of Spanish Kids came into my Onlnie class,not knowing how to speak a cent of english. make them Learn in a school BEFORE they come to the US or England, or at least before you send them to a English-Speaking School :idea2:

https://img128.imageshack.us/img128/6800/emotwtcae8.gif

Maybe if she'd said "I don't want to work with you ******** n******** because you can't ******* be bothered to speak english" to their face she should get detention. But this is just wacky.

Heh, someone somewhere screwed up badly here.

It's really funny. Of course, were she intelligent, she'd have let her group-mates lead the presentation...

What's the betting that this chav just threw a hissy fit because she couldn't sit with her mates as she was absent when they were split into study groups .:yes:
Her poor old mother got a bit upset , so after stewing for a while she got the bright idea to ring the Daily Mail .:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:

OK. I'm called "white", or "Caucasian"

How is this not crude and inaccurate? My skin isn't white, and I've never been to the Caucuses.

So, yes they might not be black in terms of the colour palette. What then? African? Afro-Caribbean (you try calling one that - Caribbeans hate Africans). They might be English.

A friend of mine was trying to describe which of her friends to me, who'd I'd only met once. We went through height, job, where it was in the party etc etc. And she was shocked when I asked was she the black friend. All the others were white, so I immediately knew who she was. I guess this common sense was racist.

Discriminating against those that can't speak English?? The Guardian will have you alongside the Nazis and the BNP for that act of flagrant bias. We're all the same damnit!!!


~:smoking:

Erm No

They Need to Learn. having say 20 English speaking kids in one class, and having 10 kids who can only speak a few words in the same class to makes no sense. How can they learn then?

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Originally Posted by Duke Malcolm

As I said, minorities are overlooked unless it is an obvious case. I suspect this is to do with teachers trying to help them "fit in".

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That's horrifying.

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Originally Posted by Tribesman

What's the betting that this chav just threw a hissy fit because she couldn't sit with her mates as she was absent when they were split into study groups .

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There goes that word again.

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Originally Posted by {BHC}KingWarman888

They Need to Learn (English).

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I actually agree with you here.
I am from Russia. When I went to Germany, I studied and learned German. When I came to the US, I learned English. When you come to a foreign land, I believe you should at least be welcomed, but I do not believe that the nation should bend to you.

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They Need to Learn. having say 20 English speaking kids in one class, and having 10 kids who can only speak a few words in the same class to makes no sense. How can they learn then?

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They learn very well , it even works out very advantageous for the English speaking kids .:yes:
Forget all the knee-jerk" bloody foriegners coming over here" rubbish , and actually think about it .
My kids are getting a far better education purely due to the number of non-english(or Gaelic) speakers in their classes .:2thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by CrossLOPER

That's horrifying.

There goes that word again.

I actually agree with you here.
I am from Russia. When I went to Germany, I studied and learned German. When I came to the US, I learned English. When you come to a foreign land, I believe you should at least be welcomed, but I do not believe that the nation should bend to you.

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Yes, if say, I wanted to move to Poland? you think I won't learn Polish? Yea I will sit down, takes classes.



Tribes, em no. First off, you need to learn English when you go to the US/U.K. I don't want my kids to be sitting here, having to have a translator be butting into class,because she has to translate every word. Plus, It cuts down the on racists kids, and if my kids want/need to learn something, they can go take classes.,:beam: :beam:

Here is an interesting demographic:

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Fewer than two per cent of pupils at Harrop Fold come from an ethnic minority.

It had the worst GCSE results in the entire Salford LEA last year with just 15 per cent of pupils achieving five good passes including English and maths, a third of the national average.

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So it has less ethnic kids then normal and performs last in the GCSE in the area... not saying much for the wattage of the locals is it.

Now as a kid you don't normally get to choose which country your parents move to. In Australia the kids will if they have to ESL (English as a Second Language) while doing other units at the level they can cope with. They are not excluded from the rest of the kids. It means that they get to intergrate faster and learn more about the locals... one of the advantages of going to a public (government) school over a private (religious) one.

Now a pupil who was absent from class the previous day should not get to pick and choose who they sit with. To refuse to interact with them is bad enough to leave the class and make racist comments she should have been suspended from school (detention alone for leaving the classroom without the teachers permission). If she made any violent comments towards the teachers and/or the students then police could be normally called in. It would be over the top within a normal school to call in police however given the following:

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A complaint was made to a police officer based full-time at the school

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kind of hints that this isn't a normal happy go-lucky school environment when you have police based there full time (again probably the same high wattage locals).

Non PC version of events: Girl stayed home, took in bogus note that she was ill from her model lifestyle mum, came into school found out that she couldn't just hang out with her friends in class, was exposed to a language other then english and probably science concepts beyond her understanding in english, throws a hissy fit with the teacher, storms out of the class, is found by teacher, swears to the heavens about having to sit by black *&^(%^ and then is marched off to detention for bad behavour. I'm sure she is going to be a model citizen and key contributor to the world at large. Of course if welfare didn't exist she would be working the streets or living under a bridge and die at the glorious age of twenty three.

Evolution, sometimes throws in a throwback.

Salford eh? That explains it. :laugh4:

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Originally Posted by Tribesman

What's the betting that this chav just threw a hissy fit because she couldn't sit with her mates as she was absent when they were split into study groups .:yes:
Her poor old mother got a bit upset , so after stewing for a while she got the bright idea to ring the Daily Mail .:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:

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Do they normally throw youths in jail for hissy fits a week after the fact?

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It sounds like she did more than refuse to do a school project - ie. quite severe racial language etc.

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According to the article, the worst she said is 'blacks'.

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Non PC version of events: Girl stayed home, took in bogus note that she was ill from her model lifestyle mum, came into school found out that she couldn't just hang out with her friends in class, was exposed to a language other then english and probably science concepts beyond her understanding in english, throws a hissy fit with the teacher, storms out of the class, is found by teacher, swears to the heavens about having to sit by black *&^(%^ and then is marched off to detention for bad behavour. I'm sure she is going to be a model citizen and key contributor to the world at large. Of course if welfare didn't exist she would be working the streets or living under a bridge and die at the glorious age of twenty three.

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You're reading an awful lot into it without much supporting information.

CR

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Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

D
According to the article, the worst she said is 'blacks'.

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The article is very moderate in it's decription of the abuse, however i think the word "blacks" is meant to represent more wide ranging racial language etc. (the article can hardly quote her exactly)

:2thumbsup:

This is insane. Locking a kid up becuase they start yelling, come on. The teachers should understand when you put 1 student in a group with 5 others who can't communicate with her, there's going to be serious problems. Also I think the teachers trying some CYA moves with the "blacks" comment, becuase well the other students were asian.

In that same district another kid 10 was prosecuted for saying some bad words also. I didn't even know England had laws on the books that infringe uppon freedom of speech.

As for black being racist, come on, if I'm white, your black. Racism has to work both ways.

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Tribes, em no. First off, you need to learn English when you go to the US/U.K. I don't want my kids to be sitting here, having to have a translator be butting into class,because she has to translate every word. Plus, It cuts down the on racists kids, and if my kids want/need to learn something, they can go take classes

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Did you actually think about what I wrote when you quoted it ?

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Do they normally throw youths in jail for hissy fits a week after the fact?

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did she get thrown in jail ? no
Is a week a normal length of time for a police report on alledged verbal racist abuse to be started and processed ? probably
So what are you trying to say Rabbit ?
It seems like nothing , is it nothing ?
If so why bother saying it :yes:

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So it has less ethnic kids then normal and performs last in the GCSE in the area... not saying much for the wattage of the locals is it.

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Hey behave Pape , I lived in that area for a while , there are some very nice people there .
Then again , I suppose I would be classed as one of those foriegners :yes:

You lived in Salford Tribes? :inquisitive: That explains it! :laugh4:

Seriously though, I know Salford very well (being born on the right side of the river Irwell) and it isn't a place that conjures up a feeling of restfulness and wellbeing. I read this story a week or so back and IIRC the girl said a little bit more than just calling her schoolmates black. In fact her mother was a bit more forthcoming about her views than was wise IMO.

Having said that, (the girl only seemed to be echoing her mothers views, now there's a surprise), the school should have dealt with it internally......perhaps they should bring back the cane? :yes:

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You lived in Salford Tribes? That explains it!

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Eccles IA , it was full of us nasty foriegners back then:yes:

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I read this story a week or so back and IIRC the girl said a little bit more than just calling her schoolmates black. In fact her mother was a bit more forthcoming about her views than was wise IMO.

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Noooooooooo....you don't say .
You mean there is more than the Daiy Mails version of this "poor girls" story , apart from the one Duke or the Vanguaurd News Network are putting out (which just happens to be the Mails story with the usual white supremacist bullshit comentary added on):laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
Damn , and there was me thinking that this was a real issue and a damn good story to boot:oops:

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As for black being racist, come on, if I'm white, your black. Racism has to work both ways.

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Waaayhaaay , now then , there was a bloke on this forum the otherday who made a nice post , strangely enough he he had a colour in his forum name , he made acomment about racism .
A nice down to earth complete and all encompasing comment .
I wonder what it was ?
Sooooo Tex , with your "works both ways" idea .
Does nasty shite from one side justify nasty shite from the other side , or is nasty shite just nasty shite no matter where it comes from ?:inquisitive:

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Originally Posted by Tribesman

:yes: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :oops: :inquisitive:

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Short and sweet, I like.

Anyway, strange that you can now be arrested for having an opinion, and caring about the quality of your education. She doesn't want to work with people that can't speak english, how very ebil of her.

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Originally Posted by Tribesman

Did you actually think about what I wrote when you quoted it ?

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Um Yes,Re-read.



I makes no sense to stick her in a group of non-english speaking kids. How the Heck do you even get across by calling it a "study group" when she be doing the work by herself anyhow.Though again,just forgot what it was about, have to re-read the article.

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Originally Posted by {BHC}KingWarman888

UThough again,just forgot what it was about, have to re-read the article.

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Wow. Just. Wow.

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Originally Posted by CrossLOPER

Wow. Just. Wow.

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You found that candybar you lost 2 years ago and it's still edable?

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Um Yes,Re-read.

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So , do you undestand how my kids are getting a better education than those kids whose parents thought I was mad to keep sending mine to school where there are so many non-english/Gaelic speakers ?
It is mainly down to numbers and extra resources , plus parents who have a problem with people who are different invariably pass some of that crap on to their children in their formative years .
Though what is even funnier is those parents are not gaeilgeoir , but always insisted that even though they cannot speak the language themselves their kids must be enrolled at the gaelscoil because they get a better education , but now are complaining that foriegners who just like them also don't speak the language are doing the same .
That is priceless .:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
This years new intake in the local gaelscoil was about 25% african , almost exclusively Nigerian .

So , do you undestand how my kids are getting a better education than those kids whose parents thought I was mad to keep sending mine to school where there are so many non-english/Gaelic speakers?

These schools tend to sex up the results here, there is no way a language barrier can benefit an education, teachers have a harder time explaining things because students don't understand what he says.

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These schools tend to sex up the results here, there is no way a language barrier can benefit an education, teachers have a harder time explaining things because students don't understand what he says.

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Errrrr........ummmmmmmm. ........yep , it appears that the language barrier is impeding understanding there , you do not understand what is written do you Frag .
Would you like me to go through it very slowly in simple words ?
Or shall I just repeat .....It is mainly down to numbers and extra resources ...... to see if you can grasp the core reason , the same core reason why non-Irish speaking parents send their kids to Irish speaking schools .:yes:

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Originally Posted by Tribesman

Errrrr........ummmmmmmm. ........yep , it appears that the language barrier is impeding understanding there , you do not understand what is written do you Frag .
Would you like me to go through it very slowly in simple words ?
Or shall I just repeat .....It is mainly down to numbers and extra resources ...... to see if you can grasp the core reason , the same core reason why non-Irish speaking parents send their kids to Irish speaking schools .:yes:

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Numbers, I like numbers. Why not show me some that prove your kids are better of in these schools because I don't buy it. Here these schools score worse.

That's Why I go to Cyber (online) School, don't got to Deal with Any of this BS.



Cross, Amamzing,isn't it. You like a Cookie now?

:laugh4: :laugh4:

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Numbers, I like numbers. Why not show me some that prove your kids are better of in these schools because I don't buy it. Here these schools score worse.

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So I take it you didn't read the original article then :whip:
Oh dear :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: I shouldn't laugh really , you cannot help it can you :no: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
Its quite simple Frag , an average of 20 kids to a class 1 teacher 1 fulltime assistant 2 part time assistant per class plus 9(inschool) rotating language specialists providing in class assistance plus extra classes on a language group basis (16 classes in all in the school)
The result being that half the time my kids are getting tuition on a 1;4 basis or better due to the immigrants being given the extra classes.
Compare to the school down the road , average 36 to a class , 1 teacher and 2 part time assitants per class .:yes: no contest eh

Now to take it back before the recent influx of immigrants .
Some people didn't want to send their kids there because of the numbers of itinerants enrolled . special funding and resources are allocated to the school to deal with this "burden" , but travellers often travel , when they ain't travelling many don't bother attending school , hence all the extra resources get spent on those kids that do go to school :2thumbsup:

So figure it out for yourself , those parents who have a problem with their kids attending the same school as immigrants or gypsies end up putting their kids in overcrowded underfunded schools .
Who do you think gets the better education ? simple isn't it:idea2:

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Originally Posted by Tribesman

:laugh4: :laugh4: :whip: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :no: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :yes: :2thumbsup: :idea2:

So I take it you didn't read the original article then

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'It had the worst GCSE results in the entire Salford LEA last year with just 15 per cent of pupils achieving five good passes including English and maths, a third of the national average.'

The children should be made to learn english, if i was put with asian people who could not speak english or any other people who could not speak english i would go absoloutley mental, its england we should speak the native tounge, so if black is racists now then, next time i am called white then there is gona be hell raised about it.

ahum ooops

Fewer than two per cent of pupils at Harrop Fold come from an ethnic minority.

It had the worst GCSE results in the entire Salford LEA last year with just 15 per cent of pupils achieving five good passes including English and maths, a third of the national average.

Lol that's unfortunate, I want my edit button :laugh4:

Wait a minute ... fewer than 2% of the school are ethnic minorities and yet there are 5(!) members of the ethnic minority in one class and these are working together as a group on a project?

I have the feeling that the integration of ethnic minorities at this school is a complete and utter failure...

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Originally Posted by King Ragnar

The children should be made to learn english, if i was put with asian people who could not speak english or any other people who could not speak english i would go absoloutley mental, its england we should speak the native tounge,

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The other language people go to school to learn how to speak english , in maybe 6 months time they will most probably be able to speak basic english fairly well - yes, its inconvenient in the short term (everyone needs to learn sign language) but in the long term communication is okay, these people can't go to seperate schools for basic english learning before mainstream schools because that would cost the government far too much.
I do agree that in English schools enlgish should be spoken in lessons.

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so if black is racists now then, next time i am called white then there is gona be hell raised about it.

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How many times :egypt: --> in the article the word "black" is used to indicate much more severe abuse - it can hardly quote the exact wording.

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Originally Posted by Ser Clegane

Wait a minute ... fewer than 2% of the school are ethnic minorities and yet there are 5(!) members of the ethnic minority in one class and these are working together as a group on a project?
I have the feeling that the integration of ethnic minorities at this school is a complete and utter failure...

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Exactly they should really work on it, in fairness it is probably harder to integrate a 2% as opposed to say 10%, it would mean those of ethnic origin would stand out particularly obviously, forming a definate seperate group, also the other native students might not be accustomed to seeing those of different ethnic minorities, and as a result are (seem to be - in this case) racist

none of this justifies the police arresting the girl, the school ought to look after itself on this kind of thing.

:2thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Fragony

You found that candybar you lost 2 years ago and it's still edable?

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Something to that extent, yes.

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if i was put with asian people who could not speak english or any other people who could not speak english i would go absoloutley mental

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Now that is just so tempting for a put down .

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Wait a minute ... fewer than 2% of the school are ethnic minorities and yet there are 5(!) members of the ethnic minority in one class and these are working together as a group on a project?

I have the feeling that the integration of ethnic minorities at this school is a complete and utter failure...

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Ser Cleg
It probably has more to do with the small size of the ethnic groupings in the school .
It makes sense at the start of the school year to place the 3 recent immigrants who cannot speak English in the same class as the 2 who could speak both English and Urdu , until such time as the extra tuition becomes effective .

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none of this justifies the police arresting the girl, the school ought to look after itself on this kind of thing.

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Scurvy
I wonder how much the action revolves around the fact that this school is under the special measures program to address its state as a failed educational institution .

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ahum ooops

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Frag :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
See it does help , that way I wouldn't have had to write .....So I take it you didn't read the original article then :yes: and then you wouldn't have quoted it and still not read it , then actually read it and had to say:oops:

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Originally Posted by Tribesman

I wonder how much the action revolves around the fact that this school is under the special measures program to address its state as a failed educational institution .

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I know very little about the special measures programme, however it seems to me that only by confronting this kind of thing internally can the school revitalise successfully, if students see this kind of thing needing the police brought in, what does that tell them of the authority and competance of their teachers (presumably fairly low standard at such a school - however they don't need to know this)

It hasnt been helped by the media picking it up, maybe without the media coverage it would have been the right course of action, depending on the severity of the abuse, :2thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Tribesman

did she get thrown in jail ? no
Is a week a normal length of time for a police report on alledged verbal racist abuse to be started and processed ? probably
So what are you trying to say Rabbit ?
It seems like nothing , is it nothing ?
If so why bother saying it :yes:

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Meh, she was 'placed in a cell' for 3.5 hours. Rather similar. The question stands then, why put her in a cell a week after the incident? Is that what they normally do for teens throwing hissy fits?

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A complaint was made to a police officer based full-time at the school, and more than a week after the incident on September 26 she was taken to Swinton police station and placed under arrest.

"They told me to take my laces out of my shoes and remove my jewellery, and I had my fingerprints and photograph taken," said Codie. "It was awful."

After questioning on suspicion of committing a section five racial public order offence, her mother Nicola says she was placed in a bare cell for three-and-a-half hours then released without charge.

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Even supposing she said something more racist than simply 'blacks' it is absurd to throw her in a cell a week after the fact.

Crazed Rabbit

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Originally Posted by Tribesman

Ser Cleg
It probably has more to do with the small size of the ethnic groupings in the school .
It makes sense at the start of the school year to place the 3 recent immigrants who cannot speak English in the same class as the 2 who could speak both English and Urdu , until such time as the extra tuition becomes effective .

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Personally, I think it is rather counterproductive to have these 5 students together in one project group.
Of course it makes them feel more "at home" which they sure like (and at their age I probably would have liked it as well), but how are they supposed to integrate if the school even seems to support "seggregation"?
Wouldn't at least splitting them up into two groups so that they have to mingle with the "natives" be a better solution for getting them to know the language and other kids?

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Originally Posted by Tribesman

Frag :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
See it does help , that way I wouldn't have had to write .....So I take it you didn't read the original article then :yes: and then you wouldn't have quoted it and still not read it , then actually read it and had to say:oops:

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Well even if I screwed up there it isn't really relevant for the article, which is about a girl being arrested because she didn't want to work with people that didn't speak her language.

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Originally Posted by Ser Clegane

Personally, I think it is rather counterproductive to have these 5 students together in one project group.
Of course it makes them feel more "at home" which they sure like (and at their age I probably would have liked it as well), but how are they supposed to integrate if the school even seems to support "seggregation"?
Wouldn't at least splitting them up into two groups so that they have to mingle with the "natives" be a better solution for getting them to know the language and other kids?

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I think it makes sense, at least until they spoke basic english, this is because as individuals they are more likely to be singled out, with no group protection etc. and would probably work better as a group than seperated anyway
(I agree that 2 groups is a better idea) :2thumbsup:

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Meh, she was 'placed in a cell' for 3.5 hours. Rather similar. The question stands then, why put her in a cell a week after the incident? Is that what they normally do for teens throwing hissy fits?

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firstly it may be similar , but it is not the same, and it wasn't a "cell" , it was the youth suite , definately a long way away from your comment about her being thrown in jail . keeping her for 3.5 hours would be normal while they completed the paperwork . All of which is a long way off the mothers earlier claims that they jailed her poor daughter for 6 hours .

But yes it is normal when they have teens at the station being processed in relation to an alledged incident .

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Well even if I screwed up there it isn't really relevant for the article, which is about a girl being arrested because she didn't want to work with people that didn't speak her language.

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Nope the article is about a girl being arrested over alledged verbal racial abuse .

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Personally, I think it is rather counterproductive to have these 5 students together in one project group.

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Yep possibly

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Of course it makes them feel more "at home" which they sure like (and at their age I probably would have liked it as well)

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Yep and there you come to the real issue this chav had , she was annoyed that the class had been split into groups in her absence and she got stroppy because she missed the opertunity to be sitting with her mates .

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Wouldn't at least splitting them up into two groups so that they have to mingle with the "natives" be a better solution for getting them to know the language and other kids?

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Yep , but it appears part of the problem is that an example is shown that at least one of the other kids didn't want to mingle withthe non-natives .

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Originally Posted by Tribesman

Yep and there you come to the real issue this chav had , she was annoyed that the class had been split into groups in her absence and she got stroppy because she missed the opertunity to be sitting with her mates .

[...]

Yep , but it appears part of the problem is that an example is shown that at least one of the other kids didn't want to mingle withthe non-natives

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No argument from me here - the behaviour of the girl was poor. She didn't like being put together with them? Well, sometimes you just have to accept that things are not always going your way and have to act maturely.

However, I see many failures in this case and one should not be used to excuse the other (no matter which one we are talking about). Integration requires all involved parties to be willing to leave the comfort zone.

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Originally Posted by Tribesman

firstly it may be similar , but it is not the same, and it wasn't a "cell" , it was the youth suite , definately a long way away from your comment about her being thrown in jail . keeping her for 3.5 hours would be normal while they completed the paperwork . All of which is a long way off the mothers earlier claims that they jailed her poor daughter for 6 hours .

But yes it is normal when they have teens at the station being processed in relation to an alledged incident.

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So...you're saying that it is normal for the police to take a girl to the station, place her in a cell for 3 and a half hours, for a bit of alledged racial abuse a week before? Can you get arrested for being a racist? If it takes a week for the police to process the complaint why does it take another 3 and a half hours of her waiting in a cell to fill out more paperwork? What does that accomplish?

Why in the world does it take the police a week to write a report on some girl having a hissy fit in school- why would they even bother in the first place?- and then actually go an arrest her and take several more hours to do basically nothing more?

Police involvement in this at all seems ridiculous.

Crazed Rabbit

Well Rabbit , that is the process of the law , it is normal .
Yep police involvement does seem ridiculous , however the school is under the special measures program, that program is implemented when a school deteriorates so badly either education wise or in relation to student behaviour (though the 2 are often hand in hand) .
If the school cannot be turned around then it is shut down .
The government program deals with every negative aspect that affects the performance of the school and attempts to fix them , behavioral problems are one of those aspects , it seems that they really put the boot in in dealing with one problem .
I wonder how many other times they have had to do it , without of course the parents going crying to the Daily Mail about the damn immigrants and their darling chav being such a poor victim .

Actually 1 week to deal with a complaint of this nature (i.e. non violent, non urgent, no property to recover, no chance of the suspect absconding) is really fast for the police. It is another reason why most schools don't involve the police; discipline is much more effective when sanctions are administered immediately. The police don't like schools investigating or dealing with matters that they have become involved with because it taints witness evidence, so once the police are involved schools tend to back off. It often takes months for complaints to be resolved. The police also have no qualms about putting youngsters in cells (which is normal after someone is arrested) believing it might scare them back on to the straight and narrow.

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Originally Posted by Duke of Gloucester

The police also have no qualms about putting youngsters in cells (which is normal after someone is arrested) believing it might scare them back on to the straight and narrow.

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Police: Now, now there little fella. You just think about this time when you feel like speaking your mind.
Youngster: This cell sux.
Police: What I tell you?
Youngster: I hate you. You're bald.
Police: Just wait til' you're eighteen !

EDIT: Apologies.

What cute racisms we have around here. I feel very much victimized now. Need welfare money. HULK NEED WELFARE MONEY!

...ahem.

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Originally Posted by Scurvy

The other language people go to school to learn how to speak english , in maybe 6 months time they will most probably be able to speak basic english fairly well - yes, its inconvenient in the short term (everyone needs to learn sign language) but in the long term communication is okay, these people can't go to seperate schools for basic english learning before mainstream schools because that would cost the government far too much.
I do agree that in English schools enlgish should be spoken in lessons.

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Precisely. That's how I learned English.

Of course, most people got to take the ELL (English Language Learners -- something of an American public school system's attempt to integrate pure immigrants; the people in there ranged from Eastern Europeans to various Asian nationalities) classes to augment their English skills alongside the regular but I think they judged me to be well-spoken enough to survive on my own, so they threw me into the real world right off the bat.

Two years forward, and I'm far superior as a writer than most people my age. Oh, and a few verbal English (OMG!) debate tournament trophies to boot. I guess we nasty job-stealin' immigrants can learn after all! :beam:

Guess that makes a dent in "I ain't gonna study with these ... and Chinamen 'cause they ain't white an' can't speak no English" complaint now, doesn't it?

Now, for the topic: I'd like to know the facts of the events before making judgement, sorry. Though, admittedly, the involvement of the police sounds far too severe for a juvenile problem. A mere racist outburst usually doesn't need police involvement.

By the way...

Ser Clegane: Not that I disagree with you or anything like that, since I don't know how schools in the United Kingdom works; but, in the US, public schools often have a permanently-placed police officer in campus all the time and there's really nothing particularly downtrodden about it. Unless there's a problem, they usually just stay there and talk to kids -- more like an extra dean except they don't really care if you break all those crappy school rules like deans do.

Can I just ask how the Asian children knew what the teacher was saying anyway? Did they have a translator or something?

I don't understand these people. Why would somebody be arrested for asking to change groups. People do that all the time in my science classes and I just say that they can/can't depending on the situation. If a girl was to say that to me I would allow her to move groups because the children in question would be interfering with her education. That is not racist and neither is referring to students as "blacks". It is the common ethnic name for their culture group and (although it is not very nice) is usually tolerated by African/Asian students in a school. They usually don't complain as long as an insult is not placed in the same sentence as the word "black".

Political correctness is out of control!

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Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

Police involvement in this at all seems ridiculous.

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In my opinion it is ridiculous. Who needs the police in an issue that could just as easily be solved in school.

One of the 5 asian children could speak english i think, thus they were translating it to the other children, once again seems insane to me, either learn our language or get out of our country basically.

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Originally Posted by King Ragnar

One of the 5 asian children could speak english i think, thus they were translating it to the other children, once again seems insane to me, either learn our language or get out of our country basically.

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Excuse me? How do you learn the language?

Oh right. There's something called Total Immersion, often touted as the best and most natural way to learn the language. For some reason, I think letting us dirty immigrating mongrels mingle with the inherently superior natives is precisely that...

Though, if the school really has that small number of minorities and they are concentrated in such a manner, it speaks of the school's quality, really.

On the topic of learning a language at school, when pater and his wife moved to Greece they didn't go to school to learn Greek they just picked it up from the locals. They now speak and write Greek fluently. It took them a year or so but it does have the advantage of them understanding the signage and helps immensely when they have had the occasion to deal with the local Notary. (Who can speak English but refuses to do so for official business)

:whip:

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Originally Posted by King Ragnar

One of the 5 asian children could speak english i think, thus they were translating it to the other children, once again seems insane to me, either learn our language or get out of our country basically.

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The Asian that could speak English must have been disrupting the class by talking at the same time as the teacher to translate for the non-English speakers? I think that it would also be just a little bit of a distraction for the rest of the class? Could I also ask how the Asians that could not speak English do their work. Either the teacher can speak and read their language or they don't get their work marked. They should either go to a school that has teachers that speak their native language or the school should get their own translator in for the individuals or they should go home, learn English and then come back. The second option would be the most sensible solution for the situation.

No wonder the place gets such low GCSE grades with students such as those in question not having suitable support.

When Sebastian and Isobel decide to move from London to a house in the south of France and take their darling little brats with them, what language do you think is used at the local school?

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Originally Posted by AntiochusIII

Ser Clegane: Not that I disagree with you or anything like that, since I don't know how schools in the United Kingdom works; but, in the US, public schools often have a permanently-placed police officer in campus all the time and there's really nothing particularly downtrodden about it. Unless there's a problem, they usually just stay there and talk to kids -- more like an extra dean except they don't really care if you break all those crappy school rules like deans do.

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I assume that your statement is actually not directed at me, as I did not touch the issue of the police officer ~;)

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Originally Posted by AntiochusIII

Excuse me? How do you learn the language?

Oh right. There's something called Total Immersion, often touted as the best and most natural way to learn the language. For some reason, I think letting us dirty immigrating mongrels mingle with the inherently superior natives is precisely that...

Though, if the school really has that small number of minorities and they are concentrated in such a manner, it speaks of the school's quality, really.

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In a classroom with other people who don't know the language, seems the best way to me, i mean learning the language for another country is just good manners i would do it if i was going on holiday to another country, fair enough not the whole language but at least some!

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Originally Posted by King Ragnar

In a classroom with other people who don't know the language, seems the best way to me, i mean learning the language for another country is just good manners i would do it if i was going on holiday to another country, fair enough not the whole language but at least some!

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So what languages have you mastered so far ?

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Originally Posted by Mithrandir

So what languages have you mastered so far ?

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In all likelyhood the language of the country he lives in!