Official list of factions and Q&A about them

Hello ladies and gentlemen, fans and supporter of MTR: AOA and other forum members in.ORG.

Our team publish list of factions which will be included in Medieval Total Realism: Age of Ambition. Starting 31 factions are:

Factions are (alphabetical order):
Muslim:
1. Berbers
2. Egyptians
3. Khanate of Transoxiana
4. Moors
5. Timurids (emerging faction)
6. Turkic Sultanate
7. Volga Bulgaria

Orthodox:
8. Byzantine Empire
9. Georgia/Abkhazia/Sakartvelo
10. Republic of Novgorod
11. Rus
12. Serbia

Pagan:
13. Mongols (emerging faction)
14. Cumans (Qipchaqs)
15. Lithuania (emerging faction)

Roman Catholics:
16. Aragon
17. Bohemia
18. Danes
19. England
20. France
21. Holy Roman Empire
22. Hungary
23. Italo-Normans
24. Kingdom of Leon-Castile
25. Norway
26. Papacy
27. Poland,
28. Kingdom of Portugal
29. Scots
30. Ducate Venice

Plus:

31. Independents


List of factions is final. Mod will start in 1071.

Common Q&A has been erased as we don’t need it any more. Names of some factions are provisional.:smash:


P.S.
Can somebody from moderators make this topic sticky? Please.

Please consider these suggestions as your remaining factions:

1. The Teutonic order. Script them as an emerging 'horde' in the 1100's. I hear the 'horde' :idea2: type of faction as been reintroduced as in BI. Historically they started in Jerusalem before moving to Hungary and finaly to Prussia where they created a large independant state.

2. The Knight's Hospitaler. Just like my idea for the Teutons. Granted land in Cyprus then Rhodes then Malta all the while fighting against the Mamlukes and Turks as an important naval power, they even fought against the Timurids.

3. Persia. Just as you have split the other islamic factions in three ( a great idea:beam: ) so can you do with this one. Khwarazm-Ilkhans-Timurids. The Khwarazmians fled to the middle east after the destruction of their state ( another horde-faction?) allied themselves with muslim rulers there, and after being defeated fled back to the mongols. The ilkhans and timurids had a lot of persian influence and i think deserve to be put in as the mongols were not unified and conflict existed between the golden horde, ilkhans and timurids. A 'Persian' faction which starts out as a muslim culture and ends up more mongol-persian later in the game would be a great addition.

4. Sweden :yes: :viking:

5. Another Russian principality....please:yes:

I'm not good with computers but offer to do some historical reasearch

AWESOME , i m happy you want include Bohemia.
And good. a really dont need fight with aztecs so THX. to orientation to Europe and East

Teutonic order ? not bad Idea :idea2:

Nice factions list! Got a few suggestions for you:

What about the Navarrese? They would be quite a challenge dumped in between Castile, France and Aragon.
Volga Bulgaria for another Steppe faction?
Ireland? Not really a major player but they're an interesting faction to play as.
Genoa?
Sweden? As mentioned above, would be good to see them in.

I'd like to see Armenia in, would be fun to see them as a Horde at the start of the campaign!

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Originally Posted by satchef1

Nice factions list! Got a few suggestions for you:

What about the Navarrese? They would be quite a challenge dumped in between Castile, France and Aragon.
Volga Bulgaria for another Steppe faction?
Ireland? Not really a major player but they're an interesting faction to play as.
Genoa?
Sweden? As mentioned above, would be good to see them in.

I'd like to see Armenia in, would be fun to see them as a Horde at the start of the campaign!

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1) yeah :) , I agree . when Turks invaded in south Caucasus, Armenian kingdom fall (after battle od Mantsikert in 1177) and Armenian nation never had the statement in Caucasus till 1918. Armenian land incorporated under Georgian Kingdom and late (XV c. ) in persian or ottomans empire.

but in 1080 ad Armenian prince Reuben established small principaliti in Cillicia, caled Armenia minor or Cillician Armenia, in XII c. ducke of Cillician Armenia was already as king and principaliti reorganized as a kingdom of Cillician Armenia.

2) genoa was not importent as Venice.

3) Ireland had not kingdoms as a Scotland or England

4) Volga Bulgaria not, but Bulgarian Kingdom was importent ortodox state, who was opponent for Bizantium Empire for Balkans domination.

Necesarily include a Valachian faction... !
I know that Walachia was founded only in the XIV century as a state (in the XV century it was strong enough to interfere in the internal bussines of the rising Ottoman Empire and fight and win major battles against it), but more or less pre-statal forms of organisation existed in the area from at least the IX century, and they were mentioned by the numerous chronicles of that time. Valachians took also an important role in the Vlach-Bulgarian kingdom from the XII, XIII centuries.... It would also , make the situation in the Balkans extremely interesting...

They should start as a protectorate of the Cumans, having controle over the provinces of Walachia and Carpathia. In Carpathia, they should enter in conflict with the Hungarians from the first turns of the game. Also, Hungarians should have a scripted possibility to choose wether to convert to catholicism or convert back to the old pagan ways. This should affect very much theyr culture type, theyr unit tech tree, giving to the player who chooses to play with them, much more freedom. This is accurate from a historicall point of view, as despite the conversion to christianity from 1000, violent pagan reactions took place in Hungary later on until the XII century.I can help alwo with suggestions about Hungary, as i speak (very badly) the language ,but sufficient for me to acces historicall databases.

Returning to Vallachia,

Aditional province of Dobrogea could be created, with its main city at Ticina, an island from the Danube, wich was for a long time a very important trade center of the Byzantine Empire, controlled by them in the begining.

Theyr starting units should be made out of low numbers of Razesi (decent peasant militias), Ciobani (shepherds) , Arcasi (archers), all very good ambushers with bonus in woods and mountains, but not capable of fighting efectivelly on the open field, they also be able to recruit some cuman units into their ranks. Light cavalry and peasant archers should be very important for theyr army, in the early times.

Later, unit tree could be made more diverse, as the Valachians started making better organization, and up into the XIV-XV century, the valachians could get more units, such as Boieri (noble cavalry), Rosiori (Medium Cavalry), Calarasi (Light Cavalry), Lefegii (mercenary armoured spearman), etc...It is not that hard for me to get you tons of images with such units, etc...

I hope you will take into account my proposals,

Sincerely,
Rex Pelasgorum

Thank god some1 shares my exact thoughts of implementing walachia...very important,you just have to have them their the most adorable early guerrila troups you can have in the game. you guys should look up Mircea cel Batran and Vlad Tepes...yeah the guy everybody thinks was Dracula...veeery nice.

And now leaving patriotism aside...will you implement a civil war between the Yorks and the Lancastrians?

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Originally Posted by Kolkhi-2

2) genoa was not importent as Venice.

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True, but they were important. Only 1 Italian faction would make things a little easy for Venice (i know the Papacy and Sicilians are in but The Pope isnt agressive and Sicily tends to build a Mediteranian empire rather than an Apennine one)

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Originally Posted by Kolkhi-2

3) Ireland had not kingdoms as a Scotland or England

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Yes, but they are very fun to play and did from time-to-time unite under one banner. All that was missing was someone strong enough to keep Ireland as one.

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Originally Posted by Kolkhi-2

4) Volga Bulgaria not, but Bulgarian Kingdom was importent ortodox state, who was opponent for Bizantium Empire for Balkans domination.

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Bulgaria are an important faction, yes. They dont exist at the time of the mod though so cant be included.

Volga Bulgaria on the other hand were active and important at the time of the mod. They controled a lot of the trade between Europe and Asia making them a very powerful player in the Steppes and as there is currently only one Steppe faction planned (the Rus) they would be an important addition.

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Originally Posted by DukeofSerbia

Q: Why there are only three Moslem factions? This is too few.
A: Technically there are three Moslem factions but in reality there are nine.

Moors – Al-Murabitun >>> Al-Muwahid >>> Nasrids
Egypt – Fatimids >>> Ayyubids >> Mamluks
Turkish Sultanate – Great Seljuk >>> Seljuk of Rum >>> Osmanli Oghullarï

However, because there is 31 faction’s slots team have internal discussion and only what can I say is that we’ll be put additional Moslem factions, but they’ll be secret for some period.

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Don't forget. The mongols converted to Islam. I'll have to check on the year, but it was before they hit Kiev.

Hey,

Congrats on the taking of such a great enterprise, bla bla bla...:2thumbsup:

So, I don't get it. Why do you take the Condado Portucalense/Portugal faction out of the mod? :sweatdrop:
It was the first european nation to establish an Atlantic projection which was relevant and it was one of the major players in western Europe in the period which is portrayed in the game (in MTW2, that is - don't know if you guys are thinking of changing the period for MTR) Too bad it sank after that...:laugh4:

'Though I can't think of any faction-specific units I'll be more than glad to collect some historically accurate information for your project, in my free time, of course....

PS: Yes, I am Portuguese :bow:

Cheers

Sorry, just checked the time period in the FAQ...still my point is the same, except for the Atlantic projection part...:P

I'll have a guess at this and say its because Portuagal didnt really exist as a nation until 1128. The mod starts about 50 years prior to that

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Portugal gained its first de jure independence (as Kingdom of Galicia and Portugal) in 1065 under the rule of Garcia II. Due to feudal power struggles, Portuguese and Galician nobles rebelled. In 1072, the country rejoined León and Castile under Garcia II's brother Alphonso VI of Castile.

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Portugal traces its national origin to 24 June 1128 with the Battle of São Mamede. Afonso proclaimed himself first Prince of Portugal and in 1139 the first King of Portugal. By 1143, with the assistance of a representative of the Holy See at the conference of Zamora, Portugal was formally recognized as independent, with the prince recognized as Dux Portucalensis. In 1179, Afonso I was declared, by the Pope, as king. After the Battle of São Mamede, the first capital of Portugal was Guimarães, from which the first king ruled. Later, when Portugal was already officially independent, he ruled from Coimbra.

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Portugal

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Beavis

Please consider these suggestions as your remaining factions:

1. The Teutonic order. Script them as an emerging 'horde' in the 1100's. I hear the 'horde' :idea2: type of faction as been reintroduced as in BI. Historically they started in Jerusalem before moving to Hungary and finaly to Prussia where they created a large independant state.

2. The Knight's Hospitaler. Just like my idea for the Teutons. Granted land in Cyprus then Rhodes then Malta all the while fighting against the Mamlukes and Turks as an important naval power, they even fought against the Timurids.

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This could make a very interesting non-playable feature. Have these two orders as emergant factions, disable their ai, move their armies via script and allocate them provinces following their historical progression and once they reach a desired ‘state’ un-freeze the ai.

MTR please consider as this would add a unique angle to your mod.

Teutonic order would be a very interesting addition.

Should cause a few problems for the Rus, Poles and Lithuanians.

Wales by any chance???

I think the best candidade for our extra Orthodox faction would be the Romano-Bulgarian Empire. It is basicily the empire founded by the Asen brothers (vlachs) that strached from Wallachia to Bulgaria. However shortlived the Empire was (it was later bulgarised). Defeated Byzantine Emperours Isac and Alexeius Anghelous, waged war with the Latin Roman Empire and aided the byzantines to recapture Constantinopole.

what about the swiss? I know their a bit late but they still made quite a big impact.

Satchfe:

You are referring to Portugal, hence me mentioning the Condado Portucalense (which existed as Condado de Portvcale -a county inserted into the kingdom of Galicia - since 868. Granted to Henry of Borgogne on 1095 by King Alphonso VI of Leon for his help in the Iberian Reconquista movement, having its name changed to Condado Portucalense - or Portuguese County, in English). The Condado Portucalense actually engulfed the lands of Portus Cale (nowadays Porto), the County of Coimbra (taken from the Moors in 1091) and the southern galician parish of Tui. It had complete independent "administrative" rule from Leon.

1091 is usually considered to be the date of the begginning of the Portuguese Reconquista, 1095 the founding of Portugal (Portucale), as an independent county. Quoting the wiki you posted: "At the end of the 11th century, the Burgundian knight Henry became count of Portugal and defended his independence, merging the County of Portucale and the County of Coimbra. Henry declared independence for Portugal while a civil war raged between Leon and Castile."

In fact, the battle of S. Mamede you referred, and which is in fact the event which is normally considered to be the "founding battle"...it is not so. It was more of a struggle for independence from D. Afonso Henriques, fending off his mother's attack (D. Teresa of Leon) on Portuguese independence at S. Mamede. Once D. Afonso Henriques won in S.Mamede he had no more worries from the Leonese crown and was free to truly begin moving south towards Olisippo(Lisbon) and the Algarve...

I forgot to mention that the official recognition in 1143 was merely a political powerplay from the part of D. Afonso Henriques to ensure the Leonese wouldn't try and seize the county once again.
Btw...Afonso Henriques is Henry's son. (and the first Dux Portvcalensis)
So, as you can see, considering the inclusion of Serbian ducates under Roman rule in the mod, I just think it to be fair for the Condado Portucalense/Portugal to be included. Given that after the Reconquista Portugal would become, together with the kingdom of Spain one of the, if not THE, most powerful nations in the whole of Western Europe...

Cheers

First post is slightly updated. :2thumbsup:

Knight’s Orders will be not factions. They will be represented as is in vanilla through units.

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Originally Posted by Cronos Impera

I think the best candidade for our extra Orthodox faction would be the Romano-Bulgarian Empire. It is basicily the empire founded by the Asen brothers (vlachs) that strached from Wallachia to Bulgaria. However shortlived the Empire was (it was later bulgarised). Defeated Byzantine Emperours Isac and Alexeius Anghelous, waged war with the Latin Roman Empire and aided the byzantines to recapture Constantinopole.

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If mod starts 1072 (slightly possible) Bulgaria had high chance to be playable faction alongside with Armenians and both if will be included will be horde. If mod starts 1066 (90%) then still there is a chance that Bulgaria and/or Armenians will be additional emerging factions from 1186 and/or 1072.

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Originally Posted by oj121

Wales by any chance???

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No.

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Originally Posted by satchef1

Volga Bulgaria on the other hand were active and important at the time of the mod. They controled a lot of the trade between Europe and Asia making them a very powerful player in the Steppes and as there is currently only one Steppe faction planned (the Rus) they would be an important addition.

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Actually, steppe factions are Cumans and later emerging Mongols. And yes, Volga Bulgars are in (you “busted” our surprise http://smiles.zy.cz/133.gif).

So uhh how will the swiss rebellion from the holy roman empire be fitted in?

Ireland had not kingdoms as a Scotland or England??

Im sure that Irish has the same kingdim as Scotland,and the same kingdom as Bohemia...
And there is enough space for Irish,island is empty(only Rebels)
Its also great challenge to try defeat the strongest enemy like England(alliance with Scotland?)
And from history side,is it still "heat" topic( Northern Ireland)
So I think that Irish has they part in history and in MTR also..

Ireland is certainly over simplified in the game but so are others. It wasn't even fully subdued until the 17th century and had more than enough color for its own game. The problem of Ireland becoming a power was that they could never put aside their differences long enough to drive the English out.

The island does need 4 or 5 provinces and Scotland could use more as well...but then again, so could most everything else.

I am sure it would be a favorite of many, however. But not just as a single province the way it is set up now.

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Originally Posted by Fisherking

It wasn't even fully subdued until the 17th century.

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Some might argue that it was never "fully subdued." In fact, the English policy toward Ireland was somewhat standoffish at first, they were already tied up in dealing with France. It wasn't until after King Henry II noticed that some of his subjects (Strongbow) had managed to acquire pretty sizeable chunks of Ireland that England even cared enough to pay attention (1171). And yes, it probably wasn't until the time of Oliver Cromwell that England would assert their influence over most of the island.

I think that for Ireland to work, there needs to be at least 3 more Irish territories (perhaps, Waterford, Galway and Armagh). These should probably added even if Ireland isn't playable.

Ok..some points ...

In response to the recent immediate discussion...Ireland as a viable Medieval Kingdom...sorry..No...It was at best a bit player during the majority of the Medieval period...and what influence it did have(at a pretty local level was disjointed and factionalized).Wales at the same time had more influence and impact on the Medieval History of England than Ireland did...In fact..pre Bannockburn..Wales virtually outdid Scotland in terms of it's resistance to the English and the influence it exerted on the political map at the time.

Q's related to the English/Welsh/Scottish/Irish issues...given the province limitations...what number of provinces will be given to the above nations...?
Suggestions might be to double the number of initial start provinces in the British Isles...Wales..2..North and South but with the Eastern area integrated,as the Marches..as hostile(rebel)territory in England..to be subdued and perhaps with a good chance of revolt over a sustained period.

Wals(2)..Gwynedd,Deheubarth or Glamorgan...
Scotland(4)..2 Initial..2 rebel?
Ireland(2)..Area around Dublin..which was the main Anglicized area...and another province making up the rest.
England(6)..Marches/Mercia..East Anglia,Kent,Wessex,York,Lancaster?..Marches,York and Lancaster all rebel to start..to simulate the difficulty the Normans had in subduing the latter 2 and also the continuing border warfare in the Marches between the Marcher Lords and the Welsh?

Also for consideration..a doubling of the various provinces of mainland European France...for a better simulation of the 400 years of war that went on between the Anglo-Normans/English and the French...
On a related note,,,Found a map on the net that perports to detail the various kingdoms,principalities etc. and some ethnic territories circa 1100 AD..could be useful for extended province mapping and for determining the major factions for inclusion.

Note regarding muslims...would definitely include Abbasid and Fatamid branches as seperate entities as their religious doctrine led to much conflict between them..

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Originally Posted by Tazmanius

Ok..some points ...

...Ireland as a viable Medieval Kingdom...sorry..No...It was at best a bit player during the majority of the Medieval period...

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I would call that a very generous appraisal.

I had understood that a Kingdom of Ireland existed in that various records attest to the existence of such a title and that a particular individual was occasionally recognised as such by other monarchs and the Pope etc. (prior to the Norman colony) but that it was, at best, a HRE level of unity, an agglomeration of independent-minded princedoms who only really cooperated if the leader was strong, and that crucially the title was never converted to a dynastic inheritance. But you could hardly call it a great power, and what influence it had was largely a vestige of it's social and religious influence in previous centuries.

Having a single province with Dublin as the capital doesn't seem that accurate though, as it was only made greatly significant by the Norman colony which wasn't established for almost a century after the start date. Also, going on the assumption that an "English" occupation was inevitable sooner or later ignores the presence of Scotland as a faction, a country with which it had vastly more in common (the Irish and Highland Scots being near-enough identical at this juncture) and therefore could more easily be fitted into. However, historically the only Scottish attempt to "liberate" Ireland was made by Robert Bruce later then English involvement.

Antagonist

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Originally Posted by DukeofSerbia

And yes, Volga Bulgars are in (you “busted” our surprise http://smiles.zy.cz/133.gif).

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class :bounce: wonder who the other one is? :idea2:

Any possibility of Portugal as emerging faction in MTR they came in MTW 2


(Portugal came into existence as an independent nation on June 24, 1128, when Afonso Henriques, Count of Portugal, defeated his mother in battle, Countess Teresa, and her lover, Fernão Peres de Trava, thereby establishing himself as sole leader. Afonso Henriques proclaimed himself king of Portugal on July 25, 1139, after the Battle of Ourique and was recognized as such in 1143 by Alfonso VII, king of León and Castile, and in 1179 by Pope Alexander III.

Afonso and his successors, aided by military monastic orders, pushed southward to drive out the Moors, as the size of Portugal covered about half of its present area. In 1249, this Reconquista ended with the capture of the Algarve on the southern coast.

In 1373, Portugal made an alliance with England, which is the longest-standing alliance in the world. In the following decades, Portugal spearheaded the exploration of the world and undertook the Age of Discovery. Prince Henry the Navigator, son of King João I, became the main sponsor and patron of this endeavor.

In 1383, the king of Castile, husband of the daughter of the Portuguese king who had died without a male heir, claimed his throne. An ensuing popular revolt led to the 1383-1385 Crisis. A faction of petty noblemen and commoners, led by John of Aviz (later John I), seconded by General Nuno Álvares Pereira, defeated the Castilians in the Battle of Aljubarrota. This celebrated battle is still a symbol of glory and the struggle for independence from neighboring Spain.

In 1415, the Portuguese empire arose when a fleet conquered Ceuta, a prosperous Islamic trade center in North Africa. There followed the first discoveries in the Atlantic: Madeira and the Azores, which led to the first colonization movements)

Catalan-Aragonese is the correct name for the Aragonese faction, cause is the union of both kingdoms, both conserving same rights and privilieges and some autonomy, Saying only Aragon is like calling the Austro-Hungarian empire only Austria.
My two cents

It's a pity that Judaism is out, it would have been fun to rampage as Jewish Qipchaqs.

Are the twcenter forums down for some reason? I can't access them, it keeps going to "cannot find server". Sorry, couldn't think of a better place to ask and didnt want to start a whole thread for this.

First post is updated.:2thumbsup:

Is Sweden in? I saw that someone asked about it, but no answer (I'm kind of tired now, so I might have missed the answer). I think sweden wasnt really united until somewhere in the 11-hundreds, with the help of norwegians if I havent misunderstood... but, are they in?

Hello everybody and sorry for my bad english!


First of all I want to thank you for yours great work with the mod. I’m really yearning after it!

I wish you will add Sweden as a playable faction in your mod. I have two reasons why!
The first reason is the time around the end of Viking epoch and the spring of medieval was a time of huge conversion and struggle in the young country. This was the time when the first seed was sowed and the land and state begin to take shape. Indeed there was already around the year of 1000 an embryo of that who later will be calling Sweden, but it was far from a strong and united land.
I think it would be nice to be the one who will build up Sweden from scratch in your realism mod - Age of ambition :duel:

The second reason is the fact of a big interest in medieval-time in Sweden just now! A big “responsibility” in that interest had the writer and journalist Jan Guillou who have write a fantastic roman succession ( 4 books) about the temple knight named Arn Magnusson. In the books we will follow Arn from his birth in a poor and suffering Sweden to his why as a great Temple knight in the Holy land and later back to Sweden there he was one of the founder of the Kingdom of Sweden. We can also reed about him as a great crusader in the east over the Baltic Sea. The story is take place in the middle 12th and the beginning of the 13th century.
Arn had different name in different part in his life. As Temple knight he was called Arn de Gothia (Gothia is that part of Sweden he was born). The Arabian people and Salamin called him Al Ghouti. In Sweden everybody know him as Arn Magnusson
His life in the Holy Land remembers a lot of the movie named Kingdom of Heaven. Maybe has the scriptwriter reed the books of Arn :book:

In a near future will also the most expensive TV-production in Sweden be creating? It’s of course the story of Arn Magnusson and his life and death!
Maybe it will pock a lot of people in my home country to play your mod if Sweden and Arn is a part of it!?
It will also be very fun if Arn will pop up as a character (a general or something) in the story-line!

There is one problem. Arn is a fiction person :no: . But all the occurrences around his person are reel. Maybe he not will take part in your REALISM mod in that reason? I say.
- So what, let him play with the reel gays :yes:

If you want some help with the Swedish medieval I will try to help you. But im not an expert!

Thank you for yours attentiveness!

Will you be having any emerging or re-emerging factions in MTR?
Also, will you remedy the names from the vanilla M2TW, as some names have been "translated" into English but IMO would add more flair if left in their native tongue. So actual French/German/Italian/Spanish/<insert faction name here> names instead of say "Marc of Paris" or "Péter von Saxony" which are just totally wrong?

Why Teutonic order is not considered a faction?
I do not know how powerful Hospitalers were, but Teutonic Order was able to field around 20.000 man strong army! And they controlled about 1/3 of Baltic coast. Not to mention they had huge impact on Middle and East European politics. And they were not part of HRE.

There have been recently some additional factions that are puzzling.
Excuses were given that khwarezm, and the timurids were not in because they would be emerging factions and did not exist at the beginning of the mod. Now factions such as Bulgaria and Armenia are included, and these will be emerging factions. This makes the previous argument against Khwarezm and Timurids invalid. Furthermore the Volga-Bulgars managed to make it in despite the fact they lasted roughly 100 years, from the beginning of the mod.

The Teutonic Knights were a huge territorial and independent political power that survived to modern times in the form of Prussia. Novgorod, Lithuania and Poland did not have war with the HRE when in conflict with the Teutonic Knights but only with them.

Furthermore Timur"s state fought against the Golden Horde, Mamelukes, destryed Bayezid at Ankara, and I never heard of him losing. Why the Timurids are relegated to a script doesn"t make sense.

Maybe we should see what the other modders are doing.

Much respect for the team and their ambitious project. Hope it turns out great. :2thumbsup:


I just wanted to make a point that the games timeline spans for 500 years and methinks one should take in account factions that have emerged later than 1066 and also maybe dismiss some of the factions which didnt last that much from 1066 onwards. :juggle2:


Alltho i'd love to see a Wallachian or Moldavian faction i'm not sure it would make much sense as my countrymen never got to actually wage active war and the troops were highly irregular up to a point (or so i remember). Still i'm a Romanian so i wouldnt mind if they got in. :yes:

Also please please don't let venice out. its much too important because of its navy and potential.

Thank you for working on this. We'll be greatfull :sweatdrop:

From what I read about the second Bulgarian Empire and the independent Vlach states was that the Cumans played a large part in the establishment of these states. Since the Cumans are already in why not give names and titles to reflect this to family members of the Cuman faction, like Czar of Bulgaria or Bassarab. Also give the Cumans objectives of occupying balkan regions. This way someone who wants to play as Bulgaria or Wallachia-Moldavia can play as the Cumans.

Similarly, I think a generic Persia would be a good addition. This faction emerges as Khwarezm and ends as the Timurids. My justification is as follows, even after being crusshed by the Mongols a Khwarezmian army made it to the middle East and took part in the campaigns there alongside muslim rulers, after being defeated by Egypt the remnants joined the Il-Khan Mongols. The Ilkhans were more often than not enemies of the Golden Horde, so two warring Mongol factions should be interesting and would counterbalance their power. After the Ilkhan decline a warlord named Timur arose from their territories and established his empire which continued in Moghul India.

In game terms I would represent this as follows:
Firstly give names to the faction members in Khwarezmid fashion ie, Shah Ali Al-Khwarezm then around the late 1200's give the names of the family members an Ilkhan-flavour ie, Shah Hulegu the Ilkhan and give this Persian faction access to mongol units, by the late 1300's give family members names like Shah Timur. So we get 3 factions in one, a nice counterbalance to the Golden Horde and some intrigue as the faction may be Muslim but the leader is Pagan or Buddhist. Not completely realistic but close, think about it.

Lastly the Knightly orders were pretty much independent of any other rulers for most of the middle ages. The Knights Hospitaler had their own states in Rhodes, Smyrna ( which they defended against Timur) and of course malta. They independantly wrecked havoc on muslim shipping, make them a vassal of the Papal States but do consider putting them in, since have you heard of any hospitalers taking part in the hunndred year's war? No. They had their own commanders and historically acted after the fall of outremer as would an independant faction in our game. In game terms I would make them an emerging faction after a certain number of jihads are successful.

And finally the Teutonic knights, of all the famous battles they took part in, Leignitz, Peipus and Tannenberg, they were only under someone else's command at Leignitz in 1241 (some think the Knightly Order present was the Hospitaler Order but I digress). Putting them in would create loads of fun challengesfor the Danish, Polish and Russian player. Let's not forget that the Knights collected taxes in their holdings and effectively acted as a state, which politically survived to modern times as Prussia.

I'd like to see Medieval2:Total Realism make the more elite units more rare. Even with the new recruitment system, it's not hard to get full stacks of Chivalric Knights, or other elite troops like Varangian Guards and the like, when you have a few buildings that boost their replenishment time.

1 unit of knights being trainable every 3-4 (or even more) turns will be way better in my opinion

Will something like this be in?

i have to admit, adding the Hospitillars and the Templars as vassal factions to the pope is very appealing.......... :)

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Originally Posted by Arne Anka

Hello everybody and sorry for my bad english!


First of all I want to thank you for yours great work with the mod. I’m really yearning after it!

I wish you will add Sweden as a playable faction in your mod. I have two reasons why!
The first reason is the time around the end of Viking epoch and the spring of medieval was a time of huge conversion and struggle in the young country. This was the time when the first seed was sowed and the land and state begin to take shape. Indeed there was already around the year of 1000 an embryo of that who later will be calling Sweden, but it was far from a strong and united land.
I think it would be nice to be the one who will build up Sweden from scratch in your realism mod - Age of ambition :duel:

The second reason is the fact of a big interest in medieval-time in Sweden just now! A big “responsibility” in that interest had the writer and journalist Jan Guillou who have write a fantastic roman succession ( 4 books) about the temple knight named Arn Magnusson. In the books we will follow Arn from his birth in a poor and suffering Sweden to his why as a great Temple knight in the Holy land and later back to Sweden there he was one of the founder of the Kingdom of Sweden. We can also reed about him as a great crusader in the east over the Baltic Sea. The story is take place in the middle 12th and the beginning of the 13th century.
Arn had different name in different part in his life. As Temple knight he was called Arn de Gothia (Gothia is that part of Sweden he was born). The Arabian people and Salamin called him Al Ghouti. In Sweden everybody know him as Arn Magnusson
His life in the Holy Land remembers a lot of the movie named Kingdom of Heaven. Maybe has the scriptwriter reed the books of Arn :book:

In a near future will also the most expensive TV-production in Sweden be creating? It’s of course the story of Arn Magnusson and his life and death!
Maybe it will pock a lot of people in my home country to play your mod if Sweden and Arn is a part of it!?
It will also be very fun if Arn will pop up as a character (a general or something) in the story-line!

There is one problem. Arn is a fiction person :no: . But all the occurrences around his person are reel. Maybe he not will take part in your REALISM mod in that reason? I say.
- So what, let him play with the reel gays :yes:

If you want some help with the Swedish medieval I will try to help you. But im not an expert!

Thank you for yours attentiveness!

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Like you said, Arn is entirely fictional, and should thus be left out. Completely. Guillou is an even worse source for history than Wikipedia. Not even all of the events about him are true. There is no proof that there actually was a big battle at Gestilren (wherever that is) in 1210 for example.
Someone mentioned something about Sweding appearing in the 12th century with the help from Norwegians. Never heard of that before:juggle2:

Well, Sweden as a name existed already by the early 12th century, but was far from a country. Guillou has got the major parts right, as the lands to become Sweden were only squabling lands that never truly united under one king. The struggle for power was fought between a few major families (almost like Italian familias really) who gladly killed each others kings to get the throne for themselves. Sweden as a more centralized state only started appearing around 1250, but it can't be scripted as a horde emergence, as it was a slow build-up, involving some internal battles but not very much more. The first king to rule of a truly united* country that could bear any resemblance to modern-day Sweden would be king Magnus Birgersson (son of Birger Jarl), who ruled 1275-1290, although for the first five or six years he was involved in constant civil war or other forms of internal conflicts.
Sweden would be a really tricky one unless there's a way to fix a faction that just slowly starts to appear...And over a period of some 150 years evolve into what could be called a country.

I'm not familiar with how M2:TW works as I haven't played it yet, so I really have no idea what I'm talking about~:rolleyes: , although I do know a thing or two about Swedish history. But leave Arn out, please.

*Sweden still had separate lawbooks for each part of the country until the mid 14th century (Magnus Erikssons landslag).

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Factions are (alphabetical order):
Muslim:
1. Sultanate of Egypt,
2. Moors,
3. Turkish Sultanate (or similar name)

Orthodox:
4. Basilea Rhomaion (or Empire of Romans),
5. Kingdom of Georgia-Sakartvelo,
6. Rus’,
7. Kingdom of Serbia

Pagan:
8. Mongols (emerging faction),
9. Cumans\Qipchaqs\Polovtsi

Roman Catholics:
10. Kingdom of Aragon,
11. Kingdom of Castile (or Castile-Leon in 1072, not solved),
12. Kingdom of Denmark,
13. Kingdom of England,
14. Kingdom of France,
15. Holy Roman Empire,
16. Kingdom of Hungary,
17. Mediterranean Normans,
18. Papal State (unplayable),
19. Kingdom of Poland,
20. Kingdom of Scotland,
21. Republic of Venice
----------------------------------

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Hello!

Just a couple of things with the faction names that caught my nosy eye:

1. I believe it should be Caliphate of Egypt, not Sultanate. The game starts with the Fatimids in power, right? Well, they called their ruler caliph.

4. It's basileia, not basilea. Besides, even though I'm a lover of the greek language (or maybe because of it) I think that, if all the other faction names are going to be in english, this one should be too. I've never cared much for exact translitterations. Why not just "The Roman Empire"? Or if that causes confusion with the Germans then "Empire of the Romans", like you said.

17. Why Mediterranean Normans? I doubt they ever called themselves that, even if I cannot be sure. What's wrong with Kingdom of Sicily?


And a general comment: Even if adding so many new factions is cool, I think it is not a good idea at all to leave northern italy with just one faction + rebels + any conquering powers. I think one of the historically best things CA did to improve mtw was adding Milan to counterbalance Venice, and if I was a modder I'd probably either keep it that way or add one more northern Italian faction. Italy's just not Italy with the rivalry of the city-states.

That said, have fun modding, hope your project turns out great :2thumbsup:

Shouldn't it be Romaion too instead of Rhomaion? And to be honest I find "Empire of Romans" to be rather dull, and like someone stated it wouldn't really be an exact english version.

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Originally Posted by saapas

Shouldn't it be Romaion too instead of Rhomaion? And to be honest I find "Empire of Romans" to be rather dull, and like someone stated it wouldn't really be an exact english version.

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Romaion and Rhomaion are both correct in a way, depending on whether you want to translate the letter ro or rho. Same as in Pyrros vs Pyrrhos for the Epirot general, or Rodos vs Rhodos for the island.

What's wrong with the exactness?

It's just so contradictory. Just like renaming "Kingdom of France" to "Kingdom of the French".

Anticipating it will be a qool mod worth RTR :)

In Q&A I saw that it is not decided how to call Lithuanian faction. Here are few suggestions. Quedlinburg chronicles call it "Litua", which is quite close to how Lithuania is called these days, which is "Lietuva". However, Teutonic order most of the time clashed with Samogitian (Zemaitija) ethnic group, located just in the middle between Livonic Order (Today's Latvia) and Prusia (today's Kaliningrad). It is historicall correct to say, that Samogitia was a province of Lietuva Grand Ducery. If Lietuva faction becomes playable, which I think is correct thing to do for the accuracy of medieval history, I'd suggest in the starting map divide this pagan faction into two provinces: Samogitia having castle and Vilnius (which is not 100% historically correct, as it was built just in 13th century) being capital. While Samogitia was constant battleground between Lietuva and Teutonic order and produced most fierce milita force in Baltic tribes, Vilnius could clearly be administrative part for the gaming purposes.

This is probably not most precise historical description, but it could work for gaming adaptation.

Why do you have to name it kingdom? ( kingdom of france)
Why dont you name it just England, France, Denmark...??

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Originally Posted by Miloshus

Why do you have to name it kingdom? ( kingdom of france)
Why dont you name it just England, France, Denmark...??

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And how would you then call it? Rome? Empire of romans do sound a little dull, but I think it is the best solution I've heard so far...

Hello everybody.

Sweden doesn’t have any chance to become faction.

Baltic is already crowded and if we add Teutonic knights (which can be only emerging faction) it will become Baltic Total War.

@Beavis

Nobody guarantee that Bulgaria and Armenia will be in. This is not 100% settled. And there is high chance that starting date will be 1072 so Bulgaria and Armenians can be playable. We’ll see what will be in the end.

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Originally Posted by Beavis

Similarly, I think a generic Persia would be a good addition. This faction emerges as Khwarezm and ends as the Timurids. My justification is as follows, even after being crusshed by the Mongols a Khwarezmian army made it to the middle East and took part in the campaigns there alongside muslim rulers, after being defeated by Egypt the remnants joined the Il-Khan Mongols. The Ilkhans were more often than not enemies of the Golden Horde, so two warring Mongol factions should be interesting and would counterbalance their power. After the Ilkhan decline a warlord named Timur arose from their territories and established his empire which continued in Moghul India.

In game terms I would represent this as follows:
Firstly give names to the faction members in Khwarezmid fashion ie, Shah Ali Al-Khwarezm then around the late 1200's give the names of the family members an Ilkhan-flavour ie, Shah Hulegu the Ilkhan and give this Persian faction access to mongol units, by the late 1300's give family members names like Shah Timur. So we get 3 factions in one, a nice counterbalance to the Golden Horde and some intrigue as the faction may be Muslim but the leader is Pagan or Buddhist. Not completely realistic but close, think about it.

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Very interesting idea I admit. I will post it in developer subforum. Anyway, we’ll add another Muslim eastern faction (playable), but we can’t reveal it.

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Originally Posted by Basilakes En Strategoisin

Hello!

Just a couple of things with the faction names that caught my nosy eye:

1. I believe it should be Caliphate of Egypt, not Sultanate. The game starts with the Fatimids in power, right? Well, they called their ruler caliph.

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Hello, too.

True about Fatimid ruler. But Ayyubid and Mamluk rulers were Sultans, so… And Abbasid Caliph is puppet under Seljuk rule when mod starts.

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Originally Posted by Basilakes En Strategoisin

4. It's basileia, not basilea. Besides, even though I'm a lover of the greek language (or maybe because of it) I think that, if all the other faction names are going to be in english, this one should be too. I've never cared much for exact translitterations. Why not just "The Roman Empire"? Or if that causes confusion with the Germans then "Empire of the Romans", like you said.

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Many forum members in TWC didn’t like Empire of Romans so we changed in Greek.

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Originally Posted by Basilakes En Strategoisin

17. Why Mediterranean Normans? I doubt they ever called themselves that, even if I cannot be sure. What's wrong with Kingdom of Sicily?

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I updated Q&A:

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Q: Why is Sicily eliminated as faction?
A: Sicily is not eliminated as a faction. In southern Italy and Sicily starting faction will be Mediterranean Normans led by de Hautevilles. They’ll be in the start represented as Duchy of Apulia & Calabria under rule of Robert Guiscard and later County and Kingdom of Naples and Sicily.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Basilakes En Strategoisin

And a general comment: Even if adding so many new factions is cool, I think it is not a good idea at all to leave northern italy with just one faction + rebels + any conquering powers. I think one of the historically best things CA did to improve mtw was adding Milan to counterbalance Venice, and if I was a modder I'd probably either keep it that way or add one more northern Italian faction. Italy's just not Italy with the rivalry of the city-states.

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Northern Italy: HRE, Venice and Papal State.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Flax

In Q&A I saw that it is not decided how to call Lithuanian faction. Here are few suggestions. Quedlinburg chronicles call it "Litua", which is quite close to how Lithuania is called these days, which is "Lietuva". However, Teutonic order most of the time clashed with Samogitian (Zemaitija) ethnic group, located just in the middle between Livonic Order (Today's Latvia) and Prusia (today's Kaliningrad). It is historicall correct to say, that Samogitia was a province of Lietuva Grand Ducery. If Lietuva faction becomes playable, which I think is correct thing to do for the accuracy of medieval history, I'd suggest in the starting map divide this pagan faction into two provinces: Samogitia having castle and Vilnius (which is not 100% historically correct, as it was built just in 13th century) being capital. While Samogitia was constant battleground between Lietuva and Teutonic order and produced most fierce milita force in Baltic tribes, Vilnius could clearly be administrative part for the gaming purposes.

This is probably not most precise historical description, but it could work for gaming adaptation.

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MTR will use work of Lithuania Mini Mod for Lithuania(ns) faction. They will provide solution.

Here's a link that shows the state of the Teutonic Order.

http://www.euratlas.com/big/big1400.htm

Putting them in doesn't make the Baltic crowded it makes the game 'Realistic'. The Baltic doesn't become any more crowded than the Mediterranean. Putting the short-lived Volga-Bulgars in doesn't make sense if you leave a major power like the Teutons,

Anyone else think the Teutonic Order should be in?
Please reconsider

Euroatlas maps are inaccurate and full of falsification.

Mediterranean is drastically larger area than Baltic which you know.:2thumbsup:

The euroatlas map is completely accurate in this case

The Baltic isn't crowded. Denmark, Poland, Lithuania and Novgorod.
Putting the Teutonic Knights gives your game Realism.
They even made it into other mods like Total War Chivalry I think.
Putting them in keeps the Polish faction in check as what happened historically.
Take out the Volga Bulgars they had little impact and disappeared when the mongols came along.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Beavis

The euroatlas map is completely accurate in this case

The Baltic isn't crowded. Denmark, Poland, Lithuania and Novgorod.
Putting the Teutonic Knights gives your game Realism.
They even made it into other mods like Total War Chivalry I think.
Putting them in keeps the Polish faction in check as what happened historically.
Take out the Volga Bulgars they had little impact and disappeared when the mongols came along.

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Well you are right there should be Teutonic order. They would make balance on the north eastern piece of map. But the map is a bit weird :inquisitive: (no offence).

no offense taken, I didn't make the map.
What's so weird about it? It seems quite accurate to me.

Bulgaria and Armenia has been sidelined...

We have scripted "outbreaks", its a term used for scripted appearances of independent factions we didn't include in the faction list.

So I suppose if ur Poland and u dominate the Baltics, ur feeling quite comfortable and then one day...the script kicks in and the Tuetonic Knights have invaded the Balts.

But no, the Tuetonic Knghts don't seem to be contenders. Unfortunately, they can't be playable either.

Sad to see them go - I especially had high hopes for Armenia Cilica (as I've succeded with them in Chivalry mod ;) )

I suppose we won't be able to play Teutonic order, because it's an emerging faction, right? This makes me think whther it could be possible to set different starting dates for different factions. So that England would start at 1066, Poland would strat at 1000 (just a wild guess ;), Teutonic order in XVIIth century and so on.

And expanding this idea, you could make separte eras - so,for example, England would start in 1066 (low era), somwhere in XIIIth cetury (high era) or at the outbreak of 100 year war (late era). I know it could be time consuming to implement, but I think it add flavour to the mod.

Also, I rember that there was a mod for RTW, that made it possible to switch factions with rebels to over come the faction limit - if you wanted to play with one faction, the other, blocking its place was replaced by rebels. Combining this with the separete era campaigns you could use much more factions - so, for xample, in low era there would be no Portugal and Mongols, but instead you could have Bulgaria and Saxons. Then in mid era there would be no Bulgars and Saxons, but you could get Portugal and Mongols. And so on :)

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Sad to see them go - I especially had high hopes for Armenia Cilica (as I've succeded with them in Chivalry mod ;) )

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It was a hard decision, believe me.

Quote:

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I suppose we won't be able to play Teutonic order, because it's an emerging faction, right? This makes me think whther it could be possible to set different starting dates for different factions. So that England would start at 1066, Poland would strat at 1000 (just a wild guess ;), Teutonic order in XVIIth century and so on.

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More of a scripted emergence of an independent faction rather than an emerging faction from a faction list.

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And expanding this idea, you could make separte eras - so,for example, England would start in 1066 (low era), somwhere in XIIIth cetury (high era) or at the outbreak of 100 year war (late era). I know it could be time consuming to implement, but I think it add flavour to the mod.

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too far into the future...hehe

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Also, I rember that there was a mod for RTW, that made it possible to switch factions with rebels to over come the faction limit - if you wanted to play with one faction, the other, blocking its place was replaced by rebels. Combining this with the separete era campaigns you could use much more factions - so, for xample, in low era there would be no Portugal and Mongols, but instead you could have Bulgaria and Saxons. Then in mid era there would be no Bulgars and Saxons, but you could get Portugal and Mongols. And so on :)

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if there is a mod, could u link me to it. sounds interesting

Phew, after lots of searching I've found it :)

Here it is: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=34260

Unfortunately it seems that it's batch-file based, so to choose eras (with different factions) player would have to exit the game and run other bat file. But I don't think that having 3 shortcuts (for each era) instead of one would be such a problem for players:juggle2:

The batch files could also have one positive aspect - we could theme the menu and loading screens differently for each era :laugh4:

This is final list for the first version of MTR, any faction changes will be made in future versions if necessary. This is the faction list we're working from.

Starting Date: 1071

1) Byzantine Empire (Orthodox)
2) Holy Roman Empire (Catholic)
3) France (Catholic)
4) England (Catholic)
5) Poland (Catholic)
6) Italo - Normans (Catholic)
7) Ducate Venice (Catholic)
8) Kingdom of Leon-Castile (Catholic)
9) Kingdom of Portugal (Catholic) note: briefly independent, will have to fight scripted Battle of Pedroso to maintain independence before effective independence date of 1128
10) Moors (Muslim)
11) Danes (Catholic)
12) Norway (Catholic)
13) Serbia (Orthodox)
14) Hungary (Catholic)
15) Aragon (Catholic)
16) Papacy (Catholic)
17) Scots (Catholic)
18) Egyptians (Muslim)
19) Rus (Orthodox)
20) Georgia/Abkhazia/Sakartvelo (Orthodox)
21) Bohemia (Catholic)
22) Qipchaqs (Pagan)
23) Lithuania (Emerging Faction)
24) Mongols (Emerging Faction and Pagan)
25) Khanate of Volga Bulgaria (Muslim)
26) Khanate of Transoxiana (Muslim and vassal of the Seljuks/Turkic Sultanate)
27) Berbers (Same as Moors, but based around Tunis and predominantly a naval piratical force, Muslim)
28) Republic of Novgorod (Orthodox)
29) Timurids (Emerging Faction)
30) Turkic Sultanate
31) Independents

@Omni, has anyone tried it on MTW2 yet?

Nice list :)

I cannot say whether it's used or not, because I'm fresh to TW community and I'm more than a lurker and fanboy than modder (at least for now ;) ).

However, from thechnical point of view (and using my little knowledge about MTW structure I gathered until now) I think that having separate eras with separate factions should be 100% possible. Basically you'd have to make 3 mods (for each era) that share everything except for files with faction names (like EDU, EDB, descr_strat etc). Then you just make a small batch file that sawaps the files, depending on what campaign you want to play and you're done:yes:

The problem may be with performance, because the swappable files wouldn't be packed (provided we get the repacker), but I don't think that few unpacked text files would have any significant hit on performance.

BTW. Are the factions names used in files same as these in game? Because if not, then there sould be more files to share/less files to swap (for example EDB - provided the swapping faction has similiar buildings as the swapped one) etc etc

That map looks great! Very wise faction selection etc. Any chance of a colour code to help out the not so knowledgeable?

https://img223.imageshack.us/img223/...ninamespl9.jpg

Minor changes:

Added Madhia as a city and province

So, Milan is dropped then? This must mean that you dont feel that the Northern Italian city states can be represented adequately with this game dynamic. Interesting. I dont really feel that the map needs to be extended Eastwards. Theres more than enough to cover on the existing map dont you think and even with 31 faction slots they could well be spread very thin.

having said that, Ive just seen your new map. Hmmm, forget everything I just said. lol

The map is almost perfect .:yes: .
And what is important ; it is almost realistic!

disappointing faction list.

the volga-bulgars were erased from history 150 after the start of your mod.
the khanate of transoxania and the timurids should be merged into one faction.
why did the berbers make the cut and not the Knights Hospitaler (the Christian World's naval-piratical force).
leaving the Teutons out will probably create ahistorical rivalries in the Baltic. As well as eliminate recreations of some of the most impressive battles and campaigns of the middle-ages (Peipus, Tannenberg, the thirteen-years war)
:no:

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Originally Posted by Beavis

disappointing faction list.

the volga-bulgars were erased from history 150 after the start of your mod.
the khanate of transoxania and the timurids should be merged into one faction.
why did the berbers make the cut and not the Knights Hospitaler (the Christian World's naval-piratical force).
leaving the Teutons out will probably create ahistorical rivalries in the Baltic. As well as eliminate recreations of some of the most impressive battles and campaigns of the middle-ages (Peipus, Tannenberg, the thirteen-years war)
:no:

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No game/mod is 100% perfect (realistic).

Forgot to ask; Is there America?
Are there any Aztecs? :beam:

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Originally Posted by Miloshus

Forgot to ask; Is there America?
Are there any Aztecs? :beam:

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No.

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the volga-bulgars were erased from history 150 after the start of your mod.
the khanate of transoxania and the timurids should be merged into one faction.
why did the berbers make the cut and not the Knights Hospitaler (the Christian World's naval-piratical force).
leaving the Teutons out will probably create ahistorical rivalries in the Baltic. As well as eliminate recreations of some of the most impressive battles and campaigns of the middle-ages (Peipus, Tannenberg, the thirteen-years war)

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Item 1:
Lets see why people like games like MTW2
- to relive history
- to change history

Who says Volga Bulgars have to disappear 150 years after the mod?

In the game, sometimes factions get finished off, but you won't call that unrealistic, thats because alternate history always gets created in a game like MTW2

Item 2:
Khanate of Transoxiana and Timurids are kept separate because of two different dynamics, Transoxiana resists the Mongols (uf survive till the emergence of the Mongols), Timurids emerge from Mongols.

Item 3:
Because Berbers were very influential as a MUSLIM naval piratical force (something not represented in most mods) - plus we need a counter-balance to the Normans and the Venetians.

Item 4:
Crusaders are nice, but no space and.....well, we'd rather have playable factions with 3 emerging factions as enough already.

Item 5:
Well, this map is not everyone's cup of tea. Thats life.

Bohemia is going to have a hard time... surviving. :ballchain:

the volga bulgars were a minor state and had little impact on history.
the teutonic knights shaped modern europe.
the khanate of transoxania? never heard of it, name one historical ruler of this nation.

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the volga bulgars were a minor state and had little impact on history.
the teutonic knights shaped modern europe.
the khanate of transoxania? never heard of it, name one historical ruler of this nation.

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Unimportant for the ignorant...perhaps you'd like to go up against Orda Khan?

Volga Bulgar was a prosperous Muslim state on the Volga which recieved its cultural nourishment from the resplendent Abbasid Caliphate. It was a major trading center in Bolgar and had several cities prosperous from trade. Not to mention that they resisted the Kievan Rus instead of crumbling like the Khazars.

Well, look, we don't cater to personal preferences, if u like the Teutonic Knights, good for you, we're not including them. We don't make miracles, we can't crack the faction limit. So stop asking as to add factions on a whim.

Khanate of Transoxiana represents various dynasties which include the Qara-Khanids, the Khwarazmians, the Chagatai Khanate. Most important of all, its rich wealth and prosperity of the region supported powerful states in the past like the Samanids, the Saffirids, etc, etc. Even Timurlane had his capital in that region because it was wealthy. Moreover, Bukhara was an importnat Islamic city and even considered a holy one.

Unimportant for the ignorant exactly.

The teutonic order controlled a large amount of territory in the baltic at their peak.
The teutonic order's political state survived the middle ages and transformed itself, by various political manouvers into one of the most powerful states of modern times, Prussia.
The most famous conflicts by three of the factions already included in the mod (Poland, Lithuania and Novgorod) were against the teutonic order and not against the HRE.
I agree The Volga Bulgars had a rich state and were a great cultural center but in this time frame, short-lived due to the mogols obliterating them from the world around 1220. A rebel province would do them justice.

Khanate of Transoxania? unrealistic, ahistorical, isn't realism the objective of this mod? But If the objective is a generic Transoxanian faction why don't you include the Timurids in this one, save one faction slot.

oh thx god bohemia has the go!

are you going to implements hussite war wagons btw, Ive seen in some modding tutorial the way how to create them.

( ---> to Hody, in czech language)
Nemyslim si že tam ty válečný vozy daj....už sem se na to ptal a nikdo mi neodpověděl ( samozřejmě anglicky ;-) ) . A taky si nejsem jistej že čeští válečníci budou v husitskym stylu, protože to začlo až roku 1408 (myslim) a to už bude skoro konec módu. Ale těšim se na to. Ať žijou země koruny české :)

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Originally Posted by Beavis

The teutonic order controlled a large amount of territory in the baltic at their peak.
The teutonic order's political state survived the middle ages and transformed itself, by various political manouvers into one of the most powerful states of modern times, Prussia.
The most famous conflicts by three of the factions already included in the mod (Poland, Lithuania and Novgorod) were against the teutonic order and not against the HRE.

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Of course the teutonic order was very important. But so were the Knights of Sint John (Hospitallers if you like that better), and more important than the former: so were the Templar Knights too. True, perhaps they never wielded such a great power as their Teutonic colleagues and rivals but the point remains: why should you have the Teutonic knights in per se. In fact, the Templar Knight played a far more significant role (mainly as a sort of international bank) in Medieval times.

If we're on to famous conflicts: well the conflicts between France and the Templars Knights are quite famous too. And the only true conflict between the Crusader states and their Muslim neighbours eventually turned out to be (for the most part) conflicts between the Muslims and the Templar Knights.

If I may continue your line of thought (that one about being erased from history): didn't the forces of Novgorod, Poland and Lithuania eventually simply erase the order from the map?

Now, IMO: there is no reason to maintain that the order definitely needs to be in as a seperate faction. However, it would be very good idea to include them as a Guild (which is exactly what they were, just a very powerful one that's all).

Btw, I'm rather curious about your Prussia statement.

And on a side note: if there should be any change in map make up, I'd suggest you do something about the Turks. AFAIK they weren't exactly... united?

Wow! My father has always been a fan of RTR I might try MTW 2 MTR.

I also think that the Teutonic order should be included ... almost for a incredible "what if" that is even more interesting of the overrated mongol invasion of europe ... what if the order had extended a strong influence on the slavs population of russia ? imagine Novgorod being conquered for example ... we are talking probably of a different history of Russia and of Europe ... while the Templars are perfectly suited to be used with the guild ,they were erased "by law" ( and "for money ") from the french king because they were saw as a cancer .

Of course thats my opinion ...who work and spend hours making the mod have all the right to do what they want .