Inquisitors - problems & solutions (was Crusading when I meet inquisitor)

I was on a crusade to Jerusalem happily going through France when a met an over zealous inquisition, I thought o I should be alright I’m on a crusade, but no the inquisitor burns my faction hair at the stake leaving my crusading army to desert completely when they have no one to guide them to the holy land.

And that is why it's good to be a muslim or eastern orthodox faction :P.

But wow inquisitions seem to be a major pain. Another reason to keep a few spys ahead of your crusader armies so you can avoid problems like that.

Ahahahahahahaha!

Perhaps the Inquisitor deemed that your faction heir was unworthy of leading a crusade? :laugh4:

With so many reports this has to be some kind of issue, but it is funny though...

Maybe he thought you where not pious enough to lead such an endevour...

Or may fovourite is that he was under order from the Pope to ensure your faction did not win the Crusade!!

Exactly the same thing happened to me. It's pretty ridiculous, especially since it's not your fault that the inquisitor is in the territories you're passing through.

This is concerning. It sounds like inquisitors are just low-born cutthroats. It is just beyond reason. The Pope says if you go on a Crusade you are absolved from all sin, but then this inquisitor comes along and burns you at the stake for being a "heretic".

Ive gotten inquisitors in my land just from happening to be NEXT to another faction which was misbehaving, they burned three generals and a faction heir before I gave up and simply moved all my generals back to England.
This requires fixing! I prefered the original MTW where the inquisitors only burned the population :P

It wouldn't be so much of a problem if assassins weren't extremely ineffective.

If assassins worked there wouldnt be any inquisitors at all on my campaign map.

Lol, I had the same problem with my french crusade leader too. Now these inquisitors are really doing a fat lot of good to help the church's cause are they!

Pope: So how's the 2nd Crusade doing?

Minon: Ehh not too bad...except for 1 minor problem.

Pope: Oh?

Minon: Well you see...there was this crazy inquisitor guy down in Hungry....and he killed all the crusader leaders, so their armies disbanned. So yea...

Pope: *sighs and rubs his temples* Looks like we are breaking out the 3rd Crusade a bit early than planned...

Why are the assasins so inneficient?

Saves them the effort of doing an "assassination succes" video.

I think they wanted avoid the game getting a mature rating for that video too, but taking out the assasins altogether would anger the fanboys, so they settled on making them always fail instead.

I'm not sure you understood what I said, what I meant was do these assasins how low chances of assasinating someone? Have you tried with a high powered assassin? I mean CA bragged about the ability to kill the Pope/Cardinals, but how can you do that when you cant even kill an Inquisitor?

THEY don't have a COMFY PILLOW!!!!!!!!

:laugh4:

Hey hatchet,

Sorry, I quite understood, what you said, just making a joke. Well, half-joke actually because I have yet to see an assassin kill anything despite about a dozen attempts. I guess I should train them on my own diplomats before sending them on a real mission. I have a couple of guys whose dismal attemps at diplomacy has taken their value well into the negatives. Should be good practice for a fledgling cutthroat.

Or I could do what I used to do in MTW before trying to take out the pope : build a few dozens assasin, then make them kill each other util only the few strongest remain. Radical.

I think the assasin system works better then most round here think.

1. Assasins get away more often after a failed attempt compared to other TW games .
2. I don´t have one yet, but I guess the a assasin-guild [there is one, right?] in one of your towns should increase kill ratio.
3. I think it is fun to hunt inquisitors with your best assasin....or merchants...or generals...well, i use them quiet often in this game.Yesterday I broke a tabu: killed a princess with a snake...I felt bad.....

:2cents:

He burned your factions hair? So are all of your soldiers bald now?

Duh, I just read you can't have your own people assassinated. Bah. Guess total war has lost some of it's old totalitarian feel. Maybe they'll make up for it in the next episode : Democratic Popular Republic : Total War. With re-education camps for failed spies and diplomats, and princess cloning labs.:dizzy2:

Anyway, I'll see if I can get that assassin's guild by churning out a lot of assasins in one of my towns.

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Originally Posted by Daveybaby

He burned your factions hair? So are all of your soldiers bald now?

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:laugh4: yuck yuck yuck

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Originally Posted by Subedei

I think the assasin system works better then most round here think.

1. Assasins get away more often after a failed attempt compared to other TW games .
2. I don´t have one yet, but I guess the a assasin-guild [there is one, right?] in one of your towns should increase kill ratio.
3. I think it is fun to hunt inquisitors with your best assasin....or merchants...or generals...well, i use them quiet often in this game.Yesterday I broke a tabu: killed a princess with a snake...I felt bad.....

:2cents:

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I think the assassin system ain't too shabby either. If the percentages were higher, the map would be void of any interesting opposition: inquisitors, heretics, witches, foreign generals etc.

I'm quite sure the Thieve's Guild doesn't increase spies' and assassin's chances to execute missions, it only increases the chances of recruiting a more skilled assassin in the city where the guild is located. Not 100% guaranteed on this, but I think that's the way it works (I've had the game for a week now, but not tested it enough to be sure).

Good way to train an assassin is to sneak a spy into a city so you can see all the buildings built in there, and after that send an assassin to sabotage the easiest building in the city (I think success chances are around 20-33% for a level 0 assasssin). He gains agent skill by increasing his sabotage trait after a succesfull fireworks show. After he's gained a bit rank, go hunt rebel captains to increase your killer trait and when you feel confident enough go for the big fishes :)

In my English campaign, I was lucky to get Thieve's Guild in London quite fast, and immediately after that I trained a super assassin: Natural Born Killer and Dancer in retinue, level 5 agent right at the start!

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Originally Posted by Zoltan

Duh, I just read you can't have your own people assassinated. Bah. Guess total war has lost some of it's old totalitarian feel. Maybe they'll make up for it in the next episode : Democratic Popular Republic : Total War. With re-education camps for failed spies and diplomats, and princess cloning labs.:dizzy2:

Anyway, I'll see if I can get that assassin's guild by churning out a lot of assasins in one of my towns.

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Sorry for the double post but that's an interesting idea for future total wars, albeit kinda drifting towards civ-dom: governments and ideologies. I'd love to lead a Totalitarian Socialist Frace over the whole of Europe in any age!:whip:

Having the same problem. English crusade full of elites on its way to Antioch, all got disbanded at the hands catholic hypocrisy.

I did have one effective assasin, when playing as the french, he had full subterfuge, but is still no match for a decent inquisitor. they need to patch this right away.

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Originally Posted by Djurre

Having the same problem. English crusade full of elites on its way to Antioch, all got disbanded at the hands catholic hypocrisy.

I did have one effective assasin, when playing as the french, he had full subterfuge, but is still no match for a decent inquisitor. they need to patch this right away.

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What piety level was the Inquisitor and what was the chance for the assassin to kill him?

Nobody ever expects the Spanish Inquisition! Confess! Confess! Bring me the soft cushions! ~;)

I have to say that I am finding Inqusitors a major issue.

My biggest complaint being that I cannot understand their actions:

I have great relations with the Pope.
I have top-level (for the citie/castle) churches.
Maximum Priest.
No heresey, no heretics in my provinces or in visible adjacent ones.
Most of my heirs are pious.

Yet the inquisitor still burns them.

Inquisitors also burned my crusading leader - despite him having a piety of 5 and a load of accompanying priests.

IN one turn Inquisitors burned 2 family members and a priest - what was interesting there was that this was literally the first turn for those characters, none of whom had any "bad" traits at all.

I now have an Inquisitor parked outside of remmes: whenever I make a priest and move it out of the city the Inquistor kills it, every time, irrespective of piety.

I succeeded with a crusade - my reputation with the Pope went down and still the Inqusitors burn my priests.

I "cheated" (load/relaod) an Assassin to master +5, with 3 extra entourage and sub rating close to max - took him to kill a low-level Inquistor and the chance to succeed was %12.

A "Maxed" assassin v low level Inquisitor and he didnt stand a chance... and how hard is it to get a maxed assassin without cheating!!??




So, No - Im not happy with Inquisitors, especially due to their inexplicable actions against pious priest, characters and crusaders.

If there was some rhyme or reason to their actions Iwould be less bothered, OR if assassins actually stood a chance there would be some way to counter them effectively - then fine.
As it stands now though I am finding that really dont want to play the campaign any longer as, other than in the UK where there are no Inquisitors atm, whenever I move an agent or character out of a city it seems they get burned alive.

I mean, take the priests, brand new, no negatives, first move in the game - how the hell did they do anything wrong?!! (Especially given the relation ship with the pope and abscence of heresy etc)

(h/vh/eng)

Same problem here.
Playing as Venice on M/M
I am the Popes joint first favourite faction (with 1 cross off the maximum). Anything he asks of me I do. I have 2 cardinals in the college and wille asily get a 3rd when someone else dies becasue all my Priests are sent off the Byzantine lands to spread the faith, and earning Piety fast. Churches are very high on my building priorities.
Milan get excommunicated. I declare war. I send a large stack to siege Milan and a smaller one to siege Genoa. Then the Inquisitors dispatched by the Pope to deal with the excommunicated Milanesse decide to burn the generals of both my armies from Uber-Catholic Venice who are forfilling the Popes wishes by destroying Catholesisms enemies. :furious3:
Why?
Just tell me why?

Inquisitors are a menace to every faction no matter what you do it seems.:wall:

EDIT: spelling

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Originally Posted by Darkmoor_Dragon

I "cheated" (load/relaod) an Assassin to master +5, with 3 extra entourage and sub rating close to max - took him to kill a low-level Inquistor and the chance to succeed was %12.

A "Maxed" assassin v low level Inquisitor and he didnt stand a chance... and how hard is it to get a maxed assassin without cheating!!??

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Ouch... If the chance is really that low, assassin kill success% really should be raised a bit. I didn't expect it to be that low on high level agents!

It should be lowish on level 0 agents, but should be around 80% on a level 10 agent vs level 0-2 scenario imo. Well, maybe the success% shouldn't be that high, but the chances of getting caught should be very low for a high level assassin.

Agree with what is being said here. Am playing as the Venetians atm and have lost 3 family members and 2 priests in 7 turns. I now only have 2 family members left one being my king :thumbsdown:

There seems to be no reasons why the inquisitor picks out the charachters for "burning" aside from the peity rating, but how are you supposed to move your people around if they keep getting burned.....very annoying. Relations with the pope are good, only faction i'm at war with are the Milanese and they attacked first !!! Will not play as the Venetians again :no:

Agree with everything said here - except someone said a good way of grooming assasins is doing easy sabotage missions. I've done a load, and have never had an assasin's trait go up after a succesful bit of sabotage...

I had an army on a boat heading off to Jerusalem, it strayed to close to the coastline at the end of the turn, an inquistor was there and he burned my faction heir... I wasn't very impressed...

:furious3: The inquisitors already ruined my first game killing 3 generals and two priests.

Even when my general was on a Cog, positioned at the coast on the nord sea, the inquisitor managed to burn him.

Major spoiler, for the rest, I love the game so far!

I agree inquisitors seem a bit much, but am I the only one who finds humour in these two stories of inquisitors swimming from the shore to burn unsuspecting captains at sea? It reminds me of the crocodile in Peter Pan. :croc:

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Originally Posted by Fridgebadger

Agree with everything said here - except someone said a good way of grooming assasins is doing easy sabotage missions. I've done a load, and have never had an assasin's trait go up after a succesful bit of sabotage...

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Nor have I, ive done 11 successful sabotage mission in Paris and - nada in terms of assassin going up in level.

Too be honest I dont mind the assassins being weak, its probably better for the game that way.

However what other way is there to counter these uber-inquisitors?


So the combination of over-zealous Inquisitors and weak Assassins generates a rather unfortunate set of problems.

Now if Cardinals or Priests could counter Inquisitors... different ball game.
As it stands now priests just seem to be an easy way for inquisitors to "level up".

Ah well, might just play NWN2 until the patch comes out.

Almost every time one of my assassins manages to sabotage a building he gains a rating increase. The problem I have is when they fail at something else a few turns later ther rating decreases again.

If you have a spy in the city your planning to sabotage, the chance of success is quite high if your assassin is level 1-2, about 80% for a church and 60% for other buildings.

Just discovered this tactic last night and it's improving things a little.

I've not yet got an assassin to a 10 ranking, but I did get one to 9 before he died of old age. Against a diplomat with a 0 rating (must have picked up a bunch of negative traits there) he had a 95% chance. Against a priest with a 4 piety, he had a 33% chance, IIRC. Against a merchant with an 8 finance, it was only something like 15%. Personally, I think it needs to be a little higher.

Also, the ups/downs of the ranking seem a little skewed. I've done one reload after a failed assassination. This was with the aforementioned assassin, before he got as high as he was. At the time, he'd reached the +3 skill mark. I sent him to assassinate a 1 piety priest, he had a 75% chance and failed. He lost ALL of his skill! The entire +3 went away on one failure! Not fair.

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Originally Posted by Scottn72

Almost every time one of my assassins manages to sabotage a building he gains a rating increase. The problem I have is when they fail at something else a few turns later ther rating decreases again.

If you have a spy in the city your planning to sabotage, the chance of success is quite high if your assassin is level 1-2, about 80% for a church and 60% for other buildings.

Just discovered this tactic last night and it's improving things a little.

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Yep, that's true, I tested it out again and succesful sabotages definitely raise the agent skill. First skill-up name is "Plotter". But as Scott said, I got more familiar with the "Poor Plotter" and "Silly Schemes" traits :thumbsdown:

Good point on Scott's post was also that churches have better chances to be sabotaged for some reason, good for training your agents!

Didn't Cardinals used to prevent Iquisitors from burning all and sundry? Not the case now?

From what I've read, Cardinals cannot be turned heretic. Also, a priest has to have a high piety to be elected Cardinal in the first place, so they are probably best at denouncing heretics. It's not automatic, though.

Cardinals can be turned heretical - just happened to one of mine.

Re Assassins: yup higher chances with a spy in there and the base hit for a church is 60% for a newbie.

Thing is I still haven't gotten any rise in skill from destroying them - might be the difficulty levels h/vh (well the Hard bit anyway). Will try with a different assassin - this one may just be a bit thick (lol)

I'm getting a 6% kill chance against an Inquisitor of rank 1 using a level 3 assassin though :help:

I think the hardest job for an assassin is finding somebody they do ahve a reasonable chance of killing to get their first rank... best Ive found is 46% which was a princess with negative protection traits.

Rarer than rocking-horse poo mind you. :wall:

Same thing happened to me when i was heading for the crusade.. so after that i just created some huge armies without generals and destroyed the holy roman empire.. so its safe to say i havent seen any inquisitors as of yet :laugh4:

The inquisitors are way over the top.

A single inquisitor just killed 3 of my generals in 3 turns, including Emperor Heinrich the Chivalrous (he had 9 command, 10 chivalry, 5 authority, 3 piety) ~:mecry:
I had no assassin in the region, and the towns around there couldn't produce assassins yet.

It's pretty strange that those ***** come after your generals even if you're excommunicated.

You are not even safe in Britain. I do not know how, but two Inquisitors showed up there recently in my game and started trying to burn one of my Cardinals. Absolutely ridiculous.

It is also rather disappointing that surviving a heresy trial does not increase a character\'s piety, like it did in MTW.

I also find it rather annoying that every single one of my heirs starts with 0 piety. Strange, I was under the impression that medieval nobility were generally a bit religious.

Hmmm, I am currently in the 60th turn and din't have any Inquisitor problems at all. I have perfect relations with the pope (he's one of my guys :2thumbsup: ) and I sometimes see Inquisitors roaming the french country-side, but even with my Generals near, he never touched them.

Only during one of my early turns, an Inquisitor tried to burn one of my priests, but he was found worthy.

As with assassins, no problem there at all. I started to produce them quite early, to be able to "Train" on low-level diplomats, princesses and priests. They leveld up quickly (quicker as in RTW). Soon after I got offered the Assassin's Guild and a few turns later I was even able to upgrade it. Currently I have four level 10 murderers, working in "Tag-teams" with spies and priests. (Nothing better than sending two spies in to an Moorish City, burn religious buildings, Town Watches and bars and watch as with rising Catholic population the AI has his hands full with keeping his hinterland from revolt.)

As with Inquisitors vs. Assassins, I think that high-level merchants without the "enemie"-trait are nearly as tough to kill. I never actually tried to kill an Inquistor (no need to) but I found that killing off enemy cardinals (usually with an chance of 20%) worked quite nicely. I assassinated four cardinals, three of the free seats were given to my priests -> my guy got to be pope -> pope-o-meter is at the top and I "Inspire the pope" :beam:

To be fair, I haven't had a single inquisition attempted against me since I paid the Vatican a hefty sum and installed one of my Cardinals in the Vatican.

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Originally Posted by Quillan

From what I've read, Cardinals cannot be turned heretic. Also, a priest has to have a high piety to be elected Cardinal in the first place, so they are probably best at denouncing heretics. It's not automatic, though.

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A heretic can turn your cardinal to heretic, especially if vour cardinal has relatively low piety. I have even had a priest of mine spontaneously turn heretic as well, and there was no heretic around to turn him in the first place. Weird.

Oh, and inquisitors get 'beamed in' wherever they are needed. So no places are safe.

I was having alot of trouble with inquisitors early on in the game due to my low standing with the Pope, and nothing I was doing seemed to help raise my standing with him. So I just tried to stay under the radar, but inquisitors started flooding France and I found a good way of distracting them. I built a ton of priests. The inquisitors seem to put priority on them, as they were burning my priests every turn, but never got to my generals. Later on, I found out that simply giving the Papal States a ton of money raised my standing with the Pope by miles, and his inquisitors stopped coming after me. So distract the inquisitors with your priests, until you can bribe the pope. :laugh4:

On a side note, how many hours straight have you guys been playing? I hopped onto my computer at around 11, started playing, and next thing I knew it was 5:30! I've never had that sorta time-lapse with a game before. Best Total War yet.:rtwyes:

TinCow and Zanderpants: what's the going rate to call off the inquisitors then? (how much did you pay and on what campaign difficulty?)

You can decide if this story is amuseing or just plain scary. Playing as Milan i had taken the islands to the west of Italy i was quite happy with my position, i had Venice under my control and the pope was quite happy with me.

Then Mr FlameHappy the inquisitor arrives burns two priests and my faction heir before i can run them away, unfortunately thanks to an assasin and a storm outside venice i only had my faction leader left, i decided the only way to survive was to join a crusade to get as far away from Mr FlameHappy as possible, my faction leader jumped onto a boat and swiftly sailed towards the holy lands (im putting the x2 travel modifier down to a desperate need to see the back of a particular individual).

I arrive in the holy land hop off the boat and who do i see standing not a few steps away... its like a scene from a Droopy Dog cartoon another damned inquisitor (well i assume its not Mr FlameHappy but to be honest i wouldnt be surprised)... now im playing as the Turks...

But... what the heck is an inquisitor doing all the way over there, i mean honestly... unless they're just toying with me... kinda scary *whimper*

I hope i can add a couple of useful bits of info here...


Firstly - yes I do think Inquisitors are a pai in the backide. They're impossible to get rid of when they arrive and they kill anything on sight. I find I get about a 1 to 4 or 1 to 5 innocent to guilty ratio of people tried - and I buiold every church building I can and have extremely hgh Catholic percentages in my regions (95%+). I'd love to know how to increase piety cause I can assure you that bulding every church and having priets in every region doesn't do squat for your generals or anybody who's born subsequently.

Secondly - I think one of two things needs to be done. You could either boost assassins / nerf inquisitors - but I personally don't like that idea. I think what would be much better woul be to have fewer of them or at least make the pope have a damn good reason for sending them to your region. I personally think it would be an idea to have "an inquisition". Either an era in which the current (mad) pope sends out loads of inquisitors and everyone gets a kicking or at least a message saying "the pope is not happy and is sending an inquisition [i]because of A,B or C" which gives you time to prepare.

Thirdly - ...and how do you prepare? Easy. I know things should be patched - but as a work-around for the moment, i have a way of dealing with inquisitors. Simply send loads of priests to hover around the inquisitors whilst they are in your lands. Not to preach, or to increase the Catholic faith / piety or anything, no no no, but to be a target. The inquisitors always go after priests first - at least in my experience. I've never had a general tried when there was a priest in the same region - the priest always gets tried first! Remember, though, that if a priest gets found innocent then he probably won't be tried again, so send him off to the far east to preach. And when your priests get burned - which they inevitably will, replace them! And quickly.

Hope this helps :2thumbsup:

Posted in another thread here:

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Originally Posted by Djurre

Locking in an inquisitor with eight militia units.

looks like this, and hes not going anywhere.
000
010
000

easy way to get rid of my raving mad english king, with the absense of rebels and scots.

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Originally Posted by Djurre

seriously though, the fact that these guys cant move past your stacks might be a sollution to the problem, at least until it gets patched.
a spear militia on a bridge or mountain pass stops the inquisitor, and forces him to turn around. this might help in protecting that atheist super gouvenor.

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It seems you can block inquisitors with military stacks, so save up on those depleted units. Useful only in your own territory of course, When you're crusading this isn't much use.

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Originally Posted by Debe2233

You can decide if this story is amuseing or just plain scary. Playing as Milan i had taken the islands to the west of Italy i was quite happy with my position, i had Venice under my control and the pope was quite happy with me.

Then Mr FlameHappy the inquisitor arrives burns two priests and my faction heir before i can run them away, unfortunately thanks to an assasin and a storm outside venice i only had my faction leader left, i decided the only way to survive was to join a crusade to get as far away from Mr FlameHappy as possible, my faction leader jumped onto a boat and swiftly sailed towards the holy lands (im putting the x2 travel modifier down to a desperate need to see the back of a particular individual).

I arrive in the holy land hop off the boat and who do i see standing not a few steps away... its like a scene from a Droopy Dog cartoon another damned inquisitor (well i assume its not Mr FlameHappy but to be honest i wouldnt be surprised)... now im playing as the Turks...

But... what the heck is an inquisitor doing all the way over there, i mean honestly... unless they're just toying with me... kinda scary *whimper*

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These stories of popes coming after your family members and heirs and endlessly stalking you is like the plot to some medieval themed slasher/horror movie. Hilarious!

NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition! Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency.... Our *three* weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency...and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope.... Our *four*...no... *Amongst* our weapons.... Amongst our weaponry...are such elements as fear, surprise.... I'll come in again.

Is it really confirmed that your standing with the pope and the frequence he sends out inquisitors out to you are somehow related? Alot of people here seem surprised by the fact that inquisitors burns their generals crusade, or that inquisitors arrive in their lands even though they have high papal favor. I've always had inquisitors arrive in a steady trickle to heretical regions, regardless of my favor. The mechanics of heresy and inquisitors seems to me to be unrelated to the mechanics of favor, crusading and excommunication. That seems to make out the inquisition as a fairly autonomous institution, established but not controlled by the pope, that goes around burning people regardless of what the rest of the church thinks. Maybe that's intentional? And even historical?

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Originally Posted by econ21

TinCow and Zanderpants: what\'s the going rate to call off the inquisitors then? (how much did you pay and on what campaign difficulty?)

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My relations with the Pope have been rather complex and have certainly been a major factor in how this worked for me, so I will summarize the whole thing.

Playing England on H/VH

I was highly favored by the Pope, whom I had supported in the last election. The French were not liked at all, but not excommunicated. I picked off a few French settlements inbetween excommunication threats, but otherwise obeyed the rules and stayed in the Pope\'s good graces. When the Pope died, the French won the new position and I backed the loser. My standing with the Pope plummeted to 3 and the French nearly maxed out. On top of that, the Pope was only about 30 years old, meaning I was going to have to live with him for a LONG time.

Given that my only reasonable expansion possibilities were against France, I decided to just let myself be excommunicated. I attacked France, got excommunicated, and proceeded to conquer all French territories except one in Iberia. At this point, my cities were massively unhappy, I was being burned by Inquisitors left and right, I missed out on two Crusade calls (fortunately not against me), and I really needed a profitable peace badly. Given that my assassins had no chance at the Pope, I made sure my elderly King accidentally wandered into a large group of Welsh rebels.

I was instantly reconciled, but my standing with the Pope was still a horrid 2 and I was being burned. I sent a diplomat to the Vatican and offered a tribute of 1000 gold per turn for 10 turns. At the time, the Papal States showed Bankrupt in the diplomacy window. They gladly accepted and my standing instantly shot up to maximum. About 3-4 turns later, the Pope died. I had managed to stack the College with 4 English Cardinals (all of whom were promoted while I was excommunicated, interestingly) and the Pope became English.

Since the Papal States donation and the English Pope both occurred so close to one another, it is impossible for me to say how much of an effect the donation had on its own. As I said, I have not had a single trial for heresy since the donation, but it is likely a combination of the money and the English Pope. Also keep in mind, the massive standing jump I got probably had something to do with the Bankrupt status of the Papal States. I suspect that if they had been wealthy, I would not have risen quite as much.

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Originally Posted by TinCow

... I sent a diplomat to the Vatican and offered a tribute of 1000 gold per turn for 10 turns...

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Say no more - the cheque's in the post to the Vatican already. ~:pimp:

Thanks for the rundown, TinCow. :bow:

Could someone confirm my method? does it work for others?

I had a spy in a neutral city (Berns) and an Inquisitor moves there and kills him..
They shouldn't be able to see spies and assassins at all imho (I had an assassin turned heretic on me as well by an inquisitor) :(

And people wonder why I play Muslims.

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Originally Posted by econ21

TinCow and Zanderpants: what's the going rate to call off the inquisitors then? (how much did you pay and on what campaign difficulty?)

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I gave them a lump sum of 5,000, an additional 1,000 for trade rights, and built two cathedrals, and occasionally I'll have a priest burnt (once every 8 turns or so) , but they always have low piety. Now I'm all but one cross from the top. Also, I built a major guild of theology, so my priests come out with half full piety. This coupled with my high standing with the Pope, and some timely cardinal deaths, has practically given me control of the college. I've got 5 priests in the college now.
This was on Very hard.

On the inquisitors debate.

The problem I see is that they are a little unpredictable, but would they not be in real life? These characters are meant to burn people that must unhinge them a little if you had to do that for a day job. Think of Hanibal Lector visiting a Art School - we would all know the results but the fun of it would be the unpredictability of it.

In short these guys must be a little mad to do the job so lets keep them unpredictable, adds more of an edge to the game - dont patch them sane !

my 2 c :)

Allright guys, while they dont fix this inquisitor problem i got some sugestions :laugh4:

- First Sugestion
The pope is crazy and he really thinks that your family is satanic, or maybe he just plays to have good relations with you while he is allied with your enemys!!!
In any case, you, as the king, should fight this and adopt the pope as your enemy killing all inquisitors and so on.

- Second Sugestion
You truly believe in the pope, you believe he speaks for God himself and after see your suns burn to ashes you agree with the inquisitors and also believe that your sons and good generals had, indeed, a pact with the Satan! See them all dead is a blessing and you own it to the Pope!

Call it RPGistic style of play if you want... but could be cool huh?

A little situation report about Mr FlameHappy...

I took Jeruselem quite easily won the crusade i was happy, the pope was happy, all was good... then a heretic poped up... well no surprised i suppose, i had a few priests around converting the population and Mr FlameHappy seemed to be amuseing himself elsewhere.

My priest went up and quickly got turned into a heretic... damn... ok send another... another heretic, ah...

Now the Holylands have around 9 heretics running around giggleing and generally being a pain in the bottom i had to evacuate Jeruselem because of the problems with unrest they were causeing and headed north to the near inland city (demascus?) decideing to send priests after the heretics... but wait!... Mr FlameHappy is back with a few friends and he's decided the best course of action for dealing with heretics.... is to burn my priests. What a genius.

So now im swamped with heretics and i cant actually do anything about them because the inquisitors seem to be totally ignoreing them and roasting every priest i make as soon as he's finished training (Jeruselem is at 87% herasy) my faction leader has headed off into the far east to escape a roasting, oh well... i have a son ready to go in 2 turns... as long as my leader can survive that long in the desert *sigh*.

Started a Milanese campaign last night.

Lo and behold the man with the torch appeared after 4 turns. Killed my faction heir and priest but then after i'd built a church stopped and left me alone for 5 or 6 turns. I was building a big church when he appeared again to try my faction heir. Turn ended and the message popped up found not guilty, fantastic i thought lets crack on :2thumbsup: .... but no chance next go the man with the torch had another go and this time decided he was guilty and it was bye bye to my faction heir again.

How can someone not be a heretic one go and yet next go he is :wall:

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Originally Posted by urbancohort

How can someone not be a heretic one go and yet next go he is :wall:

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A king commit plenty adultry in 2 years time... For some reason, Inquisitors have not peskered me for atleast 100 years. Maybe because I'm at war with the pope...hmm...

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Originally Posted by Debe2233

Now the Holylands have around 9 heretics running around giggleing and generally being a pain in the bottom
(...)
So now im swamped with heretics and i cant actually do anything about them because the inquisitors seem to be totally ignoreing them and roasting every priest i make as soon as he's finished training (Jeruselem is at 87% herasy) my faction leader has headed off into the far east to escape a roasting, oh well... i have a son ready to go in 2 turns... as long as my leader can survive that long in the desert *sigh*.

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Please do post a screenshot !That cracks me up !

Girl: Follow the Gourd! The Holy Gourd of Jerusalem!
Follower: The Gourd!
Harry: Hold up the sandal, as He has commanded us!
Arthur: It is a shoe! It is a shoe!
Harry: It's a sandal!
Arthur: No, it isn't!

I don't think this problem should be fixed by making assassins stronger: I approve of them being generally weak, or else you could just use a tide of assassins to sweep away all your opponents family members.

It sounds like the inquisitors are being a little too judgemental: probably a bug in their coding. They shouldn't be going after pious people in a kingdom on good relations with the Pope: or if they do, they should be generally found innocent.

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It's pretty strange that those ***** come after your generals even if you're excommunicated.

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Actually that's when I'd most expect them to come swarming around :p

Due to the fact that the inquisitors are completely out of control I find it unable to play the game unless I am a Muslim Faction. How is that for conversion methods lol. But in all seriousness the Inquistiors have taken the fun out of the game. I have more churches than heaven itself my assassins are useless and the Inquisitors are wreaking more Havoc than the mongols on coke. PLEASE PLEASE CA patch this you guys got a great game here but even in RL too much religion is not healthy. Stop with the Inquisitors running amok please!!!! Beware the INquisition no one is safe I tell you lol.:help:

You my friends underestimate the effeciency of soft pillows and comfortable chairs.

Ok that’s three times the name of this thread has been changed but any way I’ve had three more crusades since then (didn’t get close to the target dam England for being so far away) and for some reason the inquisitors don’t seem to be as enthusiastic as they once were they still swarm my land but don’t actually do any thing.
Also you would think they would burn heretics on site but they just seem to ignore them which is a bit odd when they happily burn a cardinal just because they can.

I really get a kick out of Inquisitors (my favorite weapon in the first Medieval), but these guys really don't seem to have much direction. I had a Cardinal, young and vibrant as they go, who was just one mark away from maxed piety. He had traits about combating heresy. He was the Man, who'd done away with multiple heretics and witches. The Pope adored me for building churches, combating heathens, blah blah blah.

An Inquisitor ravaging France for heresy and near-excommunication comes along and kills this perfect Cardinal...

It's the ONLY time I've had someone tried by an Inquisitor...a Cardinal of the utmost standing, with one mark short of max piety, all these positive traits...and an Inquisitor kills him with NO provocation on the FIRST TRY.

The Inquisition would have burned me for a fraction of the things I yelled after I saw that.

Heres a dirty little trick if your at war with another catholic faction. Go find a measly stack capture prisoners then set them free, next send in some pope-fodder units, let them get crushed and captured then pay for there ransom. Anyways I was mad at the Frenchies for getting me in trouble for selling them back thier men so I got my sweet revenge. Then the HRE comes along (allied to the Frenchies) and asks if I'd like an alliance, Haha Now you have to accept the ceasefire...... I know I know not historical at all someone surrendering to the French but it's just a game.

Really I don't know if it's the ransoming (or executing for those sickos) that angers the pope or the Catholic faction that is winning most of the battles, but I will say the message from the pope came after the ransom and not after the battle. So I put 2 and 2 together and made French Fries - inquistor style.

Would'nt frying a crusade defy the pope. After all he granted and blessed the crusade, and wasnt a crusade without the popes permission.

Also at this time was it really about religion? IMO it was more about power and abuse of the church. Then again Greasing the popes palms gives him power.

The idea of an Inquisitor executing a prince of a powerful faction is ahistorical nonsense , let alone the King himself !
There may have been the rare exception in very unusual circumstances , however Kings and Princes led armies of very violent men and generally killed those who threatened them at the earliest convienience .
An inquisitor whom tried to condem and execute a King at the head of his crusading army would have been made a very interesting footnote in history as a madman who made a mistake of biblical proportions :P

Historically the Popes' only real weapon against Kings and Princes was excommunication and diplomacy {playing Nobles off against each other} . Had the various orders of inquisition targeted royals with anything approaching regularity those orders would have been wiped out rather fast and the Papalcy would have lost what influence it had {and soon thereafter its' very existance as Kings of powerful nations decided they were better off without it} .


The inquisition orders targeted "civilians" .
Catholic Preists in even remotely good standing were nearly immune and a full Cardinal was untouchable {only the Pope can really judge them} . For an inquisition to start burning catholic preists would be to defy the Pope and that would have resulted in the inquisitors being stripped of possition and likely , flesh too . A member of the Catholic preisthood had to screw up pretty bad to be fair game for inquisitors .

Inquisitors need serious redesign in the game . I'm thinking of modding them out completely .

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Originally Posted by Ulstan

I don't think this problem should be fixed by making assassins stronger: I approve of them being generally weak, or else you could just use a tide of assassins to sweep away all your opponents family members.

It sounds like the inquisitors are being a little too judgemental: probably a bug in their coding. They shouldn't be going after pious people in a kingdom on good relations with the Pope: or if they do, they should be generally found innocent.



Actually that's when I'd most expect them to come swarming around :p

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Hm, I thought the pope doesn't have power anymore over an excommunicated faction, does he?

He shouldn't, no.

How about this: Put some checks on Inquisitors to stop them dead:

No one in a Crusade.

No one over 8 piety

no one who is king or heir.

I'm sure CA can do that, it would limit them a bit while leaving them a force to be feared.

In my current French campaign I had a lot of generals burned at the start, but since heresy started rising and my relation with the pope got lower down to zero and excommunication, the burnings seem to have stopped or become fewer...:inquisitive:

You know whne you all started venting about Inquisitors I had a though. What if the campagin difficulty is what makes Inquisistors so good? Well it seems to pan out. I've had 3 run ins Inquisitors and they all failed to burn my generals and diplomat. Medium difficulty=Inquisition blunted.

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Originally Posted by lars573

You know whne you all started venting about Inquisitors I had a though. What if the campagin difficulty is what makes Inquisistors so good? Well it seems to pan out. I've had 3 run ins Inquisitors and they all failed to burn my generals and diplomat. Medium difficulty=Inquisition blunted.

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Nope I was playing on medium went I went on crusade and got burned

The main problem I see with Inquisitors is that they don't even seem to follow the best interests of the Pope. I mean, why would the pope want a witch-burning Cardinal burned at the stake?

I'd be willing to bet the way they are coded is to essentially look for the highest % target in visual range and go for it, regardless of anything else. It's ludicrous.

Also, I feel like Inquisitors should only be able to target characters with a Piety rating. It's kind of stupid to have my princess or merchant have 0 chance.