Sack settlements! This is not some namby pamby social service game! (Quote from SomebodyElse) As a Catholic faction, sacking and resacking the Holy Land will provide more money then you know what to do with. Sell them back and sack them again! This always puts me well over the 100k mark before turn 50. It pays my troops, builds my buildings, and lines my coffers. Take full advantage of the heathen hordes!
12-06-2006, 23:12
Shahed
Re: The secret to making florins:
When playing Catholic, how much do you get for the first sack on:
-Jerusalem
-Antioch
-Acre
-Constantinople
?
12-06-2006, 23:17
ScrapTower
Re: The secret to making florins:
It depends on the population... usually sacking Jerusalem will bring in 15-30k repeatidly.
12-06-2006, 23:25
Shahed
Re: The secret to making florins:
It's the same then as for anyone else, I think. Just wanted to see if the figure is higher if you are Crusading.
12-06-2006, 23:29
ScrapTower
Re: The secret to making florins:
Yes this works for any faction. Pick a faction (preferably one with big cities) sack them, rinse, repeat...
12-07-2006, 00:45
Musashi
Re: The secret to making florins:
Meh. I prefer to hold things I take.
12-07-2006, 00:47
Bob the Insane
Re: The secret to making florins:
Note that every time you sack a settlment you get a global relationship hit (drop), but not as bad as an exterminate...
But yeah, at some point in my campaign as the Spainish it is the only time I can afford the big upgrades...
Occupying gets you a global boost to faction standings...
12-07-2006, 00:48
TinCow
Re: The secret to making florins:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinan
When playing Catholic, how much do you get for the first sack on:
-Jerusalem
-Antioch
-Acre
-Constantinople
?
In my Venice game, I took Jerusalem on Crusade about 100 turns in. It had never been taken before and I received 44k from the sack.
12-07-2006, 00:50
ScrapTower
Re: The secret to making florins:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob the Insane
Note that every time you sack a settlment you get a global relationship hit (drop)...
But yeah, at some point in my campaign as the Spainish it is the only time I can afford the big upgrades...
Really? I didnt know that... how do you know?
12-07-2006, 00:51
Bob the Insane
Re: The secret to making florins:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScrapTower
Really? I didnt know that... how do you know?
From the unpacked files that that where released ( see the mod forum)...
Specifically the descr_faction_standing.txt file...
12-07-2006, 00:58
ScrapTower
Re: The secret to making florins:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Musashi
Meh. I prefer to hold things I take.
I think we all do. Nobody said you cant hold the settlement after sacking it a couple times...
12-07-2006, 01:09
Musashi
Re: The secret to making florins:
I've only rarely rarely sacked a settlement... I prefer to keep the population...
I only sack a settlement when I'm really annoyed with the former owners, and I never exterminate.
I'm a builder ;)
12-07-2006, 01:21
ScrapTower
Re: The secret to making florins:
Yeah I had to adjust my playstyle to take advantage of this. Its just too good to pass up. I like to carve out a small kingdom and then out tech everyone. It is quite expensive to keep stacks of elite troops unless you put them to work tho.
12-07-2006, 01:24
Musashi
Re: The secret to making florins:
I've found it's pretty simple, I'm always drawing several thousand florins per turn in merchant trade within 20-50 turns. I do the merchant zerg ;)
12-07-2006, 01:33
Aenlic
Re: The secret to making florins:
I propose we rename the merchant zerg in honor of its best practiioner! I follow the Musashi Method™ to get rich. Merchants baby. As many as possible, as soon as possible and send them off to Timbuktu and the nearby Arguin resources. I also send along as many priests as I can scrounge up. Converting the heathens around Timbuktu makes the Pope my best buddy, gives me enough cardinals to dominate the preferati and has the added bonus that by the time I get around to taking Arguin province, it's cheerfully Catholic and ready for my rule.
12-07-2006, 01:36
ScrapTower
Re: The secret to making florins:
Eye, merchants are surely another secret to making florins. Gold and silk are the first things I go for, but I find it rather tedious to go crazy with merchants... A merchant here and there and sack here and there... who says more money more problems?
12-07-2006, 01:46
ScrapTower
Re: The secret to making florins:
Can one of you post a link to the Merchant Zerg/Musashi Method™?
There is certainly more then one way to get rich in this game...
12-07-2006, 01:48
Aenlic
Re: The secret to making florins:
Looking for the thread, ScrapTower. I'll edit in the link when I've found it.
Found it. It's the Merchants and frustrations thread. Musashi gives a detailed account of his experiences with his merchants in the Timbuktu area.
I give Musashi the credit, but some also goes to Sinan and Therother, and there's some good info in the Tips and FAQ sticky with links to a couple of other threads of interest for merchants. Just scroll down the first post. Econ21 keeps it updated.
12-07-2006, 02:06
Ice
Re: The secret to making florins:
So where are the best places to put merchants? I know their are silk deposits by Constantinople and Gold/Ivory near Timbuktu, but where else is good, besides the new world.
12-07-2006, 02:21
Forward Observer
Re: The secret to making florins:
Sacking is definitely the way to go--big returns and just a little hit on population and building damage. I just wish I had discovered it earlier.
Also if you issue 20 year municipal bonds for rebuilding the damaged structures for full value--you and the governor can pocket the difference, not to mention the kickbacks on building contract awards.~D
12-07-2006, 02:30
ScrapTower
Re: The secret to making florins:
Ok yes I remember that thread. Good read, thank you.
I like to draw a line on the map and call it my home land. This is where I tech up and take care of my people… trade, and train my elite armies. Any other conquered territories shall bleed for the good of the empire! If I took the territories from a catholic faction (I play catholic) I will usually occupy, ransom and trade it back for peace. If it’s any other faction I will sack it. I am wondering how bad of a diplomacy hit do you take for sacking settlements. Going to read the extracted files…
12-07-2006, 02:39
Shahed
Re: The secret to making florins:
Ice Have a look in the thead quoted above.
I'm not meaning to sound high up there or something, but 40K is what the current average is over the past 4 turns, in expenditure/turn.
So this one sack of Jerusalem would take me through one turn. The current turn expenditure is 67K !
I hold only from Damascus, Baghdad to Constantinople (Turks). I'm sacking the Hungarians after they ruthlessly attacked me without reason. Actually I was paying them 500 florins/turn for 20 turns (500 each for 20 for Egy and Venezia as well) when they attacked. Money doesn't always talk, apparently.
I intend to give back all of Hungary once sacked, and make peace, focus on Egy, and hopefully some Crusades. The current expenditure is high because I was at war from like turn 4 when the Barneys attacked so my development is slightly behind, trying to catch up. Fielding 4 full armies, all cavalry, and max free units in every city. 3 cities above 30K population, 14-15 (male) family members and some 10 kids. So midway I'd say.
Anyway, I like to sack as well for the cash but it does give you global negative standing. It's 0.2/sack.
Condition TransgressionName = TC_INVASION
and DiplomaticStanceFactions = Allied
FactionStanding target_faction -0.01
12-07-2006, 02:39
Zanshin
Re: The secret to making florins:
I wonder how bad is the diplomacy hit for exteminating the whole population and filling the corpses with straw so they seem alive from a distance. It's not like there were UN watchers to check if you actually slaughtered them all.
Do stuffed citizens count towards squalor?
12-07-2006, 02:45
Shahed
Re: The secret to making florins:
Salted and stuffed, no.
12-07-2006, 02:46
ScrapTower
Re: The secret to making florins:
Good stuff Sinan. I wonder if you can counter this by releasing prisoners or the occasional occupation. Do you get a global diplomacy bonus for that stuff?
12-07-2006, 02:51
Shahed
Re: The secret to making florins:
I'm looking at it now.. have'nt been through the whole thing.. there seems to be a lot more negatives than positives as usual... actually wait here it is... so everyone can see:
; trigger information
; faction_standing updated with the command:
; FactionStanding [AFFECTED_HANDLE] [affected_handle_parameters] opt:[MODIFER_HANDLE] opt:[modifier_handle_parameter_1] opt:[modifier_handle_parameter_1]
;
; Available AFFECTED_HANDLE's and their parameters are as follows:
;
; factions { [faction_label_1] [faction_label_2] [etc] } --> A list of factions to be affected, (own faction automatically excluded)
; target_faction --> the target_faction attached to the event, (own faction automatically excluded)
; religion [religion_label] --> all factions of the specified religion, (own faction automatically excluded)
; own_religion --> all factions of the same religion as the faction of the event, (own faction automatically excluded)
; target_religion --> all factions of the same religion as the target faction of the event, (own faction automatically excluded)
; global --> the faction of the event (i.e. own faction)
; exclude_factions { [faction_label_1] [faction_label_2] [etc] } --> A list of factions not to be affected, (own faction automatically excluded)
; allies --> all factions allied with the faction attached to the trigger
; enemies --> all factions at war with the faction attached to the trigger
; target_allies --> all factions allied with the target faction attached to the trigger
; target_enemies --> all factions at war with the target_faction attached to the trigger
;
; Available MODIFIER_HANDLE's and their corresponding parameters
;
; [value] --> add this 'value' to the affected faction standings
; amount [divisor] [value] --> for every 'divisor' unit of the event amount, add 'value' to the affected faction standings
; income [divisor] [value] --> for every 'divisor' unit of the event factions income, add 'value' to the affected faction standings
; normalise [target_core_attitude] [divisor] --> for each affected faction standing, add (target_faction_standing - faction_standing)/divisor
; per_unit [value] --> for each unit in the events army, add 'value' to the affected faction standings
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
;; BUILD RELIGIOUS STRUCTURE ;;
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
Condition TransgressionName = TC_CRUSADE_INVASION
and FactionReligion catholic
and not TargetFactionReligion catholic
and not TargetFactionReligion orthodox
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
;; AI Relationships ;;
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
; Make other Catholic factions like the pope a bit more
;------------------------------------------
Trigger 0084_Update_Papal
WhenToTest FactionTurnStart
Condition FactionType Papal_States
FactionStanding own_religion normalise 1.0 50
; Make other factions like factions of the same religion a bit more
;------------------------------------------
Trigger 0085_Update_Religion
WhenToTest FactionTurnStart
FactionStanding own_religion normalise 1.0 100
; Make factions get a case of the 'tall poppy' syndrome. get narky about the larger factions
;------------------------------------------
Trigger 0086_Update_Tall_Poppy1
WhenToTest FactionTurnStart
Condition FactionHasRank
and FactionScorePercent overall > 90
and FactionScoreRank overall <= 1
; Make factions try and band up with smaller factions
;------------------------------------------
Trigger 0089_Update_Band_Together1
WhenToTest FactionTurnStart
Condition FactionHasRank
and FactionScorePercent overall < 30
and FactionScoreRank overall > 3
; Adjust the AI relationships towards each faction based on difficulty level (AI factions have normal difficulty)
;------------------------------------------
Trigger 0092_Update_Easy_Difficulty
WhenToTest FactionTurnStart
I don't understand all of it actually, like the percentages ...where are they ? the probability of occurence... so would be good if someone could chip in.
12-07-2006, 02:58
ScrapTower
Re: The secret to making florins:
Here is a few that seem to up your diplomacy score:
Condition RansomType release
and NumCapturedSoldiers > 80
FactionStanding global 0.02
;------------------------------------------
12-07-2006, 03:02
Shahed
Re: The secret to making florins:
I don't get the normalisation trigger when allied.
It tests when the attitude is update (and when is that ?), it tests for allied factions, it will normalise 100% if these conditions are met, and what is 400 ?
Also I should say I typo-ed earlier, I wrote sack gives -0.2 it's -0.02. Which is a lot better and you can cancel that by releasing more than 80 prisoners.
12-07-2006, 03:16
ScrapTower
Re: The secret to making florins:
Yes I think you also get +0.02 for occupation so you can couter sacking penalties.
12-07-2006, 03:27
ScrapTower
Re: The secret to making florins:
The "when to test" bit is probably game events the get fired. When and why is the question.
12-07-2006, 04:31
Bob the Insane
Re: The secret to making florins:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinan
I don't get the normalisation trigger when allied.
It tests when the attitude is update (and when is that ?), it tests for allied factions, it will normalise 100% if these conditions are met, and what is 400 ?
.
GHow I understand it (from reading the header of the document) is there in Normalisation you find the different between your present factionstand (with a particular faction) and the target vale (1.0 in this case) and divid tha number buy 400 (again in this case) and modify the faction standing bytha amoun recalculated each turn.
So the normalisation trigger when allied will very slowly move you faction standing with an allied faction towards Perfect over time. But the rate of this change is totally overwhelmed by the golbal negative on positive relationship generated by difficulty level; Very Hard, hard and even Medium. So in those cases being allied will simply slow the rate at which your relateionship deteriorates (of course at Medium it will bottom out at neutral.
Oh and I was mistaken about Hard difficulty, it is not normalized at Abysmal, it is Very Poor I think... If that makes any difference... :laugh4:
12-07-2006, 13:43
Kraxis
Re: The secret to making florins:
It is actually interesting that ransoming prisoners can hurt you, as if they don't pay you end up executing them. And you also get the Dread associated with Execute. So basically Ransom is just Execute with a chance to make money.
Here I thought it was a sort of neutral stance...
12-07-2006, 17:18
Daveybaby
Re: The secret to making florins:
Over time it would average out as neutral, assuming they payed up half the time. Unfortunately they dont seem to pay up very often.
12-07-2006, 19:04
Fisherking
Re: The secret to making florins:
You know I sack every settlement I take and I am always at reliable to highly reliable... I don't see any big hits here. You just can't back stab. Let them attack you first or attack excommunicated factions.
12-07-2006, 20:36
Aenlic
Re: The secret to making florins:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice
So where are the best places to put merchants? I know their are silk deposits by Constantinople and Gold/Ivory near Timbuktu, but where else is good, besides the new world.
The best places I've found so far:
Timbuktu (and the far southeastern portion of Arguin next to Timbuktu):
2 gold and 2 ivory
2 ivory and 1 gold (technically in Arguin province)
The advantage of this are is its remote locale. you only have to worry about enemy merchants if you aren't the Moors and the Moors take Timbuktu; in which case they will try to take out your merchants by acquisition.
Baghdad has two silk right next to the city. Constantinople and Nicaea also have silk spots. The drawback here is that every faction with a high level merchant will try to take these spots from you.
In the area between Vilnius, Riga and Novgorod are a bunch of amber sources. Several of these are high value amber and several are lower value. Just like with the silk near Constantinople, you can expect competition for these sites.
Another good resource seems to be iron, and there appears to be a value increase if you have a castle in that province; because the castles need iron for producing weapons, I suppose.
There are several "protected" resources which you can use if you have a problem with aggressive enmy merchants. There is an ore site in Ireland which keeps most merchants away since the AI rarely uses ships to transport merchants. There is another ore spot in the forest southwest of Stockholm, as well as some amber as I recall. You can protect this resource from enemy merchants by planting a useless general on Stockholm side of the landbridge to Denmark. This will keep enemy merchants out.
Wine and textiles can also be moderately lucrative, but you'll have problems with enemy merchants trying acquisitions. There's a good textile spot next to Antwerp and wine all over France.
For merchants, nothing really compares to the 3 gold and 4 ivory near Timbuktu, though. It's relatively safe from enemy merchants and concentrated in one area with the two highest value resources all together. The big drawback is replacing deceased merchants. This can be mitigated by taking Timbuktu and building a market . Then you can easily replace merchants when they die with a new one right next door. And if you take Timbuktu and Arguin, you can also build mines which vastly improves your take from the gold. :wink:
