As everyone knows, Mary Cheney is pregnant. She's settled with a long-term partner, so that's all well and good (single parenthood is no sort of fun). Interestingly, the couple live in Virginia, which not only outlaws gay marriage, but which invalidates all contracts that a same-sex couple might protect parental interests, financial and medical. (Virginia is for haters.)
Anyway, the interesting thing is the backlash from the right. Selected quotes follow.
By this selfish action, Cheney is not merely disrupting society, she is being cruel to her child. ...Her pregnancy is further evidence that participation in homosexual activity distorts value systems, inducing practitioners to harm the commonweal. Our society already has too many children born without the benefits of marriage; Cheney's action is not only a bad example, but poor treatment of an innocent child.
Yes, I think fatherhood is crucial and am opposed to redefining marriage and all the rest. And my "deafening silence" on the Mary Cheney "issue" (what nonsense) doesn't change that. But unless Mary Cheney asks to be a spokeswoman on this issue, folks ought to leave her alone.
Janice Crouse of Concerned Women for America described the pregnancy as "unconscionable." "It's very disappointing that a celebrity couple like this would deliberately bring into the world a child that will never have a father," said Crouse, a senior fellow at the group's think tank. "They are encouraging people who don't have the advantages they have."
Obviously, we’re saddened at the spectacle of the Vice President’s daughter, Mary Cheney, living in an open lesbian relationship, and now bringing a child into a home that is fatherless by design. In our view, this is another case of the “gay” movement putting its wants (in this case, having a child) above what’s best for children. “Two mommies” or “two daddies” will never substitute for a home with a married mom and a dad, and it is sad when men or women model immoral homosexual behavior before innocent children in a home setting.
Professional blowhard Jonah Goldberg feels some strain, but blames it on ... wait for it ... liberals. Not the elite, just liberals in general:
I've gotten piles of email from people egging me on to demonize Mary Cheney. To date, all of them have been from liberals and gay-marriage obsessives. It's tails-we-win-heads-you-lose baiting. If I criticize her, I'm a jerk. If I don't, I'm a coward who doesn't have the courage of my bigotry, to paraphrase one reader. It's all intellectually tawdry nonsense. What they're really cranky about is that I won't — and don't — play into their convenient stereotype, which is what they want me to do.
Conveniently, Jonah ignores the contradiction of being a cheerleader for a party that uses gays every two to four years to polarize the electorate, and yet is filled with closet tolerants. Including himself.
Anyway, please forgive all of the quotes; I just wanted to provide an appropriately distasteful sample of the rhetoric.
12-09-2006, 04:22
Strike For The South
Re: There's Something About Mary ...
I dont care about the gays they act to high and mighty. Big deal your gay whooptie friggin do.
Vote closes same-sex marriage issue, PM says
Tory motion would have reopened debate on rights of gays to wed
By JENNIFER DITCHBURN The Canadian Press
OTTAWA — The last major threat to same-sex marriage rights in Canada was soundly defeated in the House of Commons on Thursday, with MPs sending the message they don’t want to revisit the emotional, divisive debate.
Prime Minister Stephen Harper said he heard the message and will respect it.
"We made a promise to have a free vote on this issue, we kept that promise, and obviously the vote was decisive and obviously we’ll accept the democratic result of the people’s representatives," Harper said. "I don’t see reopening this question in the future."
The question put to MPs was whether they wanted to see legislation drafted to reinstate the traditional definition of marriage, while respecting the existing marriages of gays and lesbians.
That Conservative motion failed 175-123.
In the tense Commons, MPs watched each other carefully to see how the other would vote. Some Liberals cheered as prominent Tories voted to let sleeping dogs lie. Some Conservatives applauded Liberals who did the opposite.
Ultimately, more MPs supported same-sex marriage than in the last vote on the issue in June 2005.
During that charged vote last year, only three Tories voted in favour of expanding the definition of marriage. On Thursday, the number who approved the status quo was 13, including high-profile politicians such as Foreign Affairs Minister Peter MacKay, Transport Minister Lawrence Cannon and International Development Minister Josee Verner.
Said Cannon: "The file is finished. We’re turning the page."
On the Liberal side, the number of MPs committed to going back to the traditional definition of marriage dropped from 32 to 13. MP Joe Comuzzi, who lost a ministerial post the last time around for refusing to toe the cabinet line, voted against Thursday’s motion.
Bloc Quebecois Leader Gilles Duceppe, who himself had two MPs snub party discipline Thursday by not voting at all, said he imagined the result was precisely what the Conservative government was hoping for.
"I think it’s over now. I’m pretty sure that Mr. Harper is also pleased with what happened," Duceppe said.
In fact, many Tories had said privately —and publicly — over the last few months that they wanted to get past the same-sex marriage issue and have it done with before the next election.
Tory MP Bill Casey said the vote came as a relief. Casey also went from supporting traditional marriage to wanting to have the matter closed.
"If the vote had gone the other way, we would have spent the next several years with this as the main motivator here ... so I just voted to move on," Casey said.
But some politicians were questioning whether the Conservatives had something else up their sleeve. Some reports had said the government was poised to introduce legislation to protect Canadians who did not want to perform gay marriages for religious reasons.
Justice Minister Vic Toews and Harper said that wasn’t in the cards, for the time being.
"The government has no plans in that regard," Harper said. "If there were any time in the future when fundamental freedoms were threatened, of course the government would respond to protect them. The government has no plans at this time."
The House of Commons has been dealing with the issue of same-sex marriage in earnest since 2003, when the Ontario Court of Appeal ruled that barring same-sex couples from marriage was unconstitutional.
Gays and lesbians began marrying in the province, and soon other jurisdictions faced similar rulings and began issuing licences.
About 12,000 gay Canadians, as well as foreign visitors, have been married in the last three years.
The previous Liberal government took the further step of consulting the Supreme Court on whether its own legislation would infringe upon freedom of religion. The court responded that the Charter would protect churches from having to officiate such marriages.
Laurie Arron of Canadians for Equal Marriage celebrated the decision.
"It’s quite clear that after three votes in three years in three different parliaments that this issue is settled," Arron said. "It’s quite clear there is a growing consensus among Canadians the equal marriage is here to stay."
Meanwhile, REAL Women of Canada, a socially conservative lobby group in favour of traditional marriage, said they would push for a national referendum on the issue.
"Elitist political leaders apparently believe that Canada is still in the twentieth century, where political parties ignored the opinion of the voting public," the group said in a release.
"Arrogant political leaders do not, in fact, know what’s best for everyone."
So Mary Cheney should move to Ontario. Where she and her partner could legally become wife and wife.
12-09-2006, 06:57
Major Robert Dump
Re: There's Something About Mary ...
Are they hot lesbians?
12-09-2006, 07:12
BigTex
Re: There's Something About Mary ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Major Robert Dump
Are they hot lesbians?
Dick Cheney's daughter, what do you think?
Indeed SFTS I'm along the same line of thinking there. I don't care if your gay. I see no need to go around floating you poked that guy in the bum though. Could care less but I don't want that many mental images.
12-09-2006, 09:51
Crazed Rabbit
Re: There's Something About Mary ...
Lemur, aside from labeling an entire state as bigots, why is this so bad:
Quote:
Yes, I think fatherhood is crucial and am opposed to redefining marriage and all the rest. And my "deafening silence" on the Mary Cheney "issue" (what nonsense) doesn't change that. But unless Mary Cheney asks to be a spokeswoman on this issue, folks ought to leave her alone.
? What's wrong with leaving her alone?
Lemur, do you believe that a child is best raised with a father and mother?
Crazed Rabbit
12-09-2006, 11:05
Prince of the Poodles
Re: There's Something About Mary ...
Quote:
I dont care about the gays they act to high and mighty. Big deal your gay whooptie friggin do.
Quote:
Indeed SFTS I'm along the same line of thinking there. I don't care if your gay. I see no need to go around floating you poked that guy in the bum though. Could care less but I don't want that many mental images.
Ahh, if only the real world was as tolerant and accepting.
However, no openly gay person I have ever met has been able to avoid the constant ostrization, torment, an shame for something that is no fault of their own.
I have found that horrible existence either drives people deeper into the closet, or makes them act in an even more obnoxious, confrontational manner.
You can see the same thing in high school with the kids who get tormented. They either completely change who they are to try to fit in, or act out even more as the abuse continues.
And then of course there are gay people who are not interested in telling you their sexual affiliation, but arent ashamed to answer you truthfully if you ask.
I dont get why conservatives are against Mary Cheney on this. Unlike many kids born to straight people, this child will grow up in a stable household with two loving, mature parents who have the economic means to support it.
You would think conservatives would value a stable family with two committed adults over the insistence that they be of opposite genders. Why is it so crucial to have a mom and a dad anyway? It should be about stability and most importantly, love.
12-09-2006, 12:50
Mithrandir
Re: There's Something About Mary ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Major Robert Dump
Are they hot lesbians?
That's the really important issue.
:yes:
12-09-2006, 13:01
KrooK
Re: There's Something About Mary ...
Someone told that Poles are intolerant:)
12-09-2006, 14:04
Banquo's Ghost
Re: There's Something About Mary ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prince of the Poodles
I dont get why conservatives are against Mary Cheney on this. Unlike many kids born to straight people, this child will grow up in a stable household with two loving, mature parents who have the economic means to support it.
You would think conservatives would value a stable family with two committed adults over the insistence that they be of opposite genders. Why is it so crucial to have a mom and a dad anyway? It should be about stability and most importantly, love.
Well said. :2thumbsup:
12-09-2006, 14:08
doc_bean
Re: There's Something About Mary ...
I was going to ask 'Who ?' but the thread already answered that.
What's the big deal though, single mothers are pretty commonplace these days, so how can you argue that this is immoral due to the absence of a father.
Also, I want pictures to judge her hotness for myself.
Lemur, do you believe that a child is best raised with a father and mother?
Bit of a non-issue, in the lemur's opinion. A child is best raised by at least two parents, and as much extended family as possible. Single parenthood is no sort of fun.
Most gay couples that do the parenting thing fall into a familiar division of labor; one partner concentrates on earning money, the other on maintaining the home and raising the kids. It's a natural way to work.
I like to see kids who are wanted and will be valued. For a gay couple to have a kid, they have to really want one. So I'm generally in favor.
Sorry, CR, I wasn't really as clear as I could be. As always, I blame too little coffee. I am far more worried about couples where both parents work and the kids are warehoused in day care, a trend which I think is barbaric. I think having a dedicated, stay-at-home parent is the most important thing that's missing from most kids' lives. Whether that parent is a mommy or a daddy is far less important than the fact of a parent being there.
Gay couples who are willing to put in the work and be good parents will meet with the lemur's approval. Too many unwanted/unloved/neglected kids in the world already.
12-09-2006, 17:36
lars573
Re: There's Something About Mary ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prince of the Poodles
I dont get why conservatives are against Mary Cheney on this. Unlike many kids born to straight people, this child will grow up in a stable household with two loving, mature parents who have the economic means to support it.
You would think conservatives would value a stable family with two committed adults over the insistence that they be of opposite genders. Why is it so crucial to have a mom and a dad anyway? It should be about stability and most importantly, love.
If you see the world through their belifs it makes sense. To them being homosexual is a choice. You don't have to be you choose to be. Also men and women have trouble getting along, in fact they prefer the company of their own gender for most things under "normal" cercumstances. So if you legallize being gay via marriage and full civilrights that means men and women have no reason to be around each other anymore. I mean why put up with this nearly different human when you can be with your buddies with benefits. The human race splits along gender lines, only dealing with each for swapping genetic material. Society as we know it collapses.
12-09-2006, 17:57
Ronin
Re: There's Something About Mary ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by lars573
If you see the world through their belifs it makes sense. To them being homosexual is a choice. You don't have to be you choose to be. Also men and women have trouble getting along, in fact they prefer the company of their own gender for most things under "normal" cercumstances. So if you legallize being gay via marriage and full civilrights that means men and women have no reason to be around each other anymore. I mean why put up with this nearly different human when you can be with your buddies with benefits. The human race splits along gender lines, only dealing with each for swapping genetic material. Society as we know it collapses.
of course!!!
I can only speak for myself....but me personally...if gay marriage is made legal I´m turning Gay on a heartbeat...I´ll just forget about all those years being attracted to women and shack up with a police officer or an indian first chance I get! :wall:
12-09-2006, 18:11
Mithrandir
Re: There's Something About Mary ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin
of course!!!
I can only speak for myself....but me personally...if gay marriage is made legal I´m turning Gay on a heartbeat...I´ll just forget about all those years being attracted to women and shack up with a police officer or an indian first chance I get! :wall:
Don't forget the contruction worker or the sailor :laugh4:
12-09-2006, 21:25
Major Robert Dump
Re: There's Something About Mary ...
They are hawt. I knew that already, though, I was just seeing what you guys would say.
I've known the happy couple for 12 years now. I donated the sperm for the baby, it only took me 19 tries because sometimes I missed, and then I'd have to take a nap afterwards. They were very understanding, though, as most lesbians are. They also made me dress up as a woman, a female sailor to be exact, and they kept calling me Baby Jill for some reason. I make a hot chic.
12-09-2006, 21:56
Ronin
Re: There's Something About Mary ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mithrandir
Don't forget the contruction worker or the sailor :laugh4:
psst...be quiet....I´ll have affairs with those on the side... :laugh4: :clown:
12-10-2006, 00:05
Sasaki Kojiro
Re: There's Something About Mary ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit
Lemur, do you believe that a child is best raised with a father and mother?
Crazed Rabbit
It's not the issue. Children are best raised with enough money, a stay at home mom, siblings, good schools near by, etc etc but no one says you have to have more than one child or you can't have children unless you make X amount of dollars. They aren't even saying that single mothers can't raise kids. It's only wrong if you're gay.
12-10-2006, 01:17
Philippus Flavius Homovallumus
Re: There's Something About Mary ...
Personnally I think that a child is best off with a father and a mother. Its gives them a more balenced outlook on life.
If its a boy how on Earth is he going to resolve his Oedipus conplex?
Seriously though, despite my preference I have no problem with this. Two parents is almost always better than one.
12-10-2006, 09:21
Incongruous
Re: There's Something About Mary ...
Complete non-issue really isn't it?
Why the heck should anyone have a say in this chold's life other than it's self and it's parents?
12-10-2006, 20:49
JimBob
Re: There's Something About Mary ...
Why is a mother and a father better than a mother and a mother or a father and a father? So boys can learn how to be a 'man'? And girls can learn how to be a 'woman'?
12-10-2006, 22:52
ajaxfetish
Re: There's Something About Mary ...
My lesbian aunt and her partner have two young children, a daughter and a son. In my opinion Danielle and Nyko have a much better home to grow up in than many children of straight parents. Two devoted parents, well-educated and employed, is much better than one overworked parent trying to do all the work or parents who don't care. I do worry a bit about how things will go for them when they get far enough into school for other kids to start asking awkward questions, considering how mean kids can be, but it probably helps that they live in Berkeley.
I think the issue of homosexuality is just so disturbing to some people that it acts as a blinder, and they miss all the other issues involved.
If Mary takes her role as a parent seriously and does her best for the child, more power to her. We have plenty of screwed-up family situations in this country that have nothing to do with homosexuality, and these should certainly be getting at least as much attention by the 'defenders of the family.'
Ajax
12-11-2006, 08:46
Major Robert Dump
Re: There's Something About Mary ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajaxfetish
My lesbian aunt and her partner have two young children, a daughter and a son. In my opinion Danielle and Nyko have a much better home to grow up in than many children of straight parents. Two devoted parents, well-educated and employed, is much better than one overworked parent trying to do all the work or parents who don't care. I do worry a bit about how things will go for them when they get far enough into school for other kids to start asking awkward questions, considering how mean kids can be, but it probably helps that they live in Berkeley.
I think the issue of homosexuality is just so disturbing to some people that it acts as a blinder, and they miss all the other issues involved.
If Mary takes her role as a parent seriously and does her best for the child, more power to her. We have plenty of screwed-up family situations in this country that have nothing to do with homosexuality, and these should certainly be getting at least as much attention by the 'defenders of the family.'
